Heritage In Focus: Health Care Reform: At What Cost?

[TheRealArchAngel]

No, Neither the State or the Feds has any right to tell me

1) Which Doctor I can see

2) How much that doctor can Charge

3) Wether or not I buy a Health Maintanence plan (HMO)

4) Wether or not I buy Life or Health Insurance(which is not HMO,it's like betting on weather nor not I get certain disabilities)

5) How much I should pay the ddoctor or how much he/she can charge me

6) How,Where and when a doctor can treat mo

Government is why Medicine costs so much in first place

[ConservativeHealth]

The commodification of human health is fundamentally a good thing in that allows stakeholders to extract value from policy holders in exchange for truncated service

[jpninja776]

Could have had more animated speaking, but...

Hear, hear! The federal government has no constitution authority to make these kinds of decisions. More state power now!

[notsolaxboy132]

all failing government services. I am sick of the taxpayer having to pay for the government's careless spending. We must stop the bleeding now!

[notsolaxboy132]

Second, Our health care system is without question the best in the world. Are reforms in order? Yes. Regulations could be enacted to benefit the customer, but creating a public option should be out of the question. Health Care is a business and the government has proven time and time again that it can only stay afloat as an industry by taxing American citizens. Look at Medicaid, Social Security, the Post Office, and Amtrak...

[notsolaxboy132]

To Phillipmarch22, you are right, the Heritage Foundation is saying that we as Americans should have the right to choose our healthcare and as you said, we do already have that ability. On all accounts, you are right. But you seem to be missing the point. If Obama's Health Care bill is passed, many Americans will lose that right. Furthermore, the bill in practice will be a bureaucratic nightmare. Health Care will suffer and many Americans will suffer. Health Care must remain privatized

[MagnumSerpentine]

I bet the big Health Insurance and Big Medical industry love heritage foundation.

[TheRealArchAngel]

Pfft "Big Health Insurance", "Big Medical" and "Big TObacco" is in bed witht eh politicians in DC

The only one the activists and the politicians don't fuck with is "BIg Liquir" cause when they tried to pull that lawsuit bullshit on "BIg Liquer like they did for"BIg TObacco" (that just rolled over and played ded) "Big Liquer"threw the constitution on the table and told them they are violating the free trade,and right to buy/sell.own property regardless of ags,sex race,creed(sound familiar?)

[brtrep13]

I am speaking the truth! All you are doing is keep repaeting liberal talking points. If you don't want to call it socialism, then what do you want to call it? Marxism, Communism, Leftism, Stalinism? How about tyranny and repression? When the government takes over industries, call it what you will but it is a form of totalitarianism.

[phillipmarch22]

Have you read the energy reform bill? Do you know what the benefits of the bill are? Have you watched any of the energy subcommittee meetings on this bill? Or are you blogging just to scare people? There is a lot of money in this bill for INNOVATION of new technologies. Don't you want to get off foreign oil? People like you that just go off one Fox News talking point are pathetic.

[phillipmarch22]

What industry is the goverment taking over?

[timmunst]

YES, phillipmarch22 ,I read the bill. Did you?

All your posts look like you work for Obama and his propaganda team!

[phillipmarch22]

The Heritage Foundation is saying that we as individuals should be able to choose our healthcare. We do already. My son-in-law works as a Sales Manager for Ford. (He is non-union.) He pays $750.00 a month to insure himself, his wife, (my daughter), and their son. What do you all think about that cost? Also, I would suggest anyone reading this to call a health insurance company and get a quote. Especially a women from the age of 18 to 30. Please get back to me.

[Captolamia]

How about a 10th amendment argument. Its not in the consitution so its regulated to the states.  Obamacare is Unconstitutional. And no I am not a GOP member. Libertarian actually. And no I cant spell either thanks to a useless liberal public school system

[TheRealArchAngel]

**Obamacare is Unconstitutional.**

So is Social Security, Welfare,Medicare,The IRS, and collection of taxes or the use of those taxes to pay for anything other then maintaining defence and paying the politicians for their service....the "New Deal" was an Executive orde with the IRS a Executive Goon Squad mainly to collect taxes to fund Social Welfare, not a Constitutional Amendment

[brtrep13]

There WON'T be any private health insurance at all. There will only be a government option. The government will tax private insurance so high that they will lose money and be forced to breakup. Once all private insurance is gone, everybody will be forced onto the government rationing body program.

[phillipmarch22]

The title of this video is: Health Care Reform: At What Cost? Of course the Heritage Foundation is talking about money. What about the cost in lives?

[FluxCapacitor2008]

Its funny how some people keep the scare train rolling (bankrupt, illegal immigrants, Canada, UK, socialisms, government take over) and so on. Grow some balls and try to move our healthcare up the scale. We need a nonprofit option and the private system and then we will see who can provide the best care.

[KupoChan123]

If one odd ball health insurance company lower their cost and are able to stay in business at lower cost it will forces others to fellow or go out of business. Government care's cost don't have to be contain because it has the ability to tax other health insurance out of business. When the government win, the only health care opinion is to one allowed by government.

[phillipmarch22]

The private health insurers have had plenty of time to lower costs and compete to lower costs. They never have and never will until they get some stiff competition.

[chessmastaT]

PLEASE go watch ReasonTV's videos and learn to make better videos! You are not using YouTube effectively.

[bertly71]

We already spend 2/3 of our yearly budget on entitlement spending. We are 11.3 trillion dollars in debt already. We simply can not afford this.

[getplaning]

But we can afford another 150 F-22s!

[bertly71]

The original intent of the founding fathers did include national defense. There was no specific mention of any social engineering and entitlement programs, especially to the degree we have them now. Look to California to see where we are headed, social programs have their state in bankruptcy. We are 11.4 trillion dollars in debt now. Somebody has to pay for all of this and it will be people who actually pat federal taxes. Nothing that comes from the federal government is free.

[getplaning]

Conservatives in Congress want insurance adjusters to make your health care decisions.

A better approach would be to allow physicians and patients decide what's best for them, and leave the middle man, the insurance company, out.

Conservatives want to create a profit driven model of rationing healthcare and kick the sick to the curb.

A better approach would be to increase the size of the risk pool, cover all citizens at less cost, and remove the parasite insurance companies altogether.

[Auggie56]

Who pays ?

[harlyd007]

Everyone pays exept unions and politicians. Taxpayers will pay dearly especially when he gets the Cap and Trade act pushed through tomorrow. Your electric bill will increase 90%

[FluxCapacitor2008]

Auggie56

Guess what we all are paying for it now, job loss, health insurance passed on to things we buy, government employee health care, fat cat CEOs and so on.

Do you think there is a chance that the insurance industry could be lying to us so they can keep the money rolling in? If youre making billions wouldnt you lie and cheat to keep it?

[Auggie56]

You can blame all the "Fat Cats" you want. They will be out of business, when Obama-care hits us smack in the face. Just don't get old. Heath care won't be there for you, as it will be handed out only to those who are a value to the government.

[phillipmarch22]

Health care in NOT here for us now, so WTF are you talking about? The GOP thinks that in order to qualify to live is to have a job.! Socialized medicine is music to my ears. If you like your private insurance company, I guarantee you that you have not submitted a major claim!

[Auggie56]

Like all your posts (I've read them) you show a lack of knowledge on the subject. Read up on what goes on in other countries and there socialised med.

And Phill, I paid out twenty one hundred, of a 65K claim with my insurance. You want free and it ain't gonna happen.

[phillipmarch22]

NO ONE is asking for free healthcare INSURANCE. I have read up on countries that have socialized medicine and I also know the ins and outs of our private healthcare insurance system. My oldest brother was denied tests by Bristol Park HMO and fucking died. So, any argument you make to me really is pretty fucking worthless. Plus, the plan under review in Congress IS NOT socialized medicine. If the plan puts the private insurance co's out of business, the faster the better!

[phillipmarch22]

You have been listening to the scare tactics that the Republicans are so famous for. Every Republican across the board voted against Medicare. My Grandmother loved it! She had no problems whatsoever! Private insurance companies have had plenty of time to make reforms and all they have done is get greedier. They are NOT interested in healthCARE, they are interest in PROFITS. Period! So, if you have a valid argument as why the private insurance sector is so great, put a cork in it!

[TheRealArchAngel]

no,no no

If theey want to really reform Health Care then the Government does need to take over the hospitals and Drug/MecialTech making companies that way they directly control the costs of treatment...fuck HMO's, just ban them

Giving a public option and letting Hospitals,drug/medtech companies,and HMO's stay capitalstic is feel goodery bullshit that will not work, will cost money, and will accomplish jackshit

[phillipmarch22]

Talking about private insurance companies and talking about the "free market" is like talking about apples and oranges. The public option plan will force the private insurers to act like "free market" companies. In the market, companies compete to lower prices. Health insurance companies compete to raise prices. I personally hope every last one of them goes out of business. They have been raping and killing people long enough, ya think?

[phillipmarch22]

Auggie, I am sending you a video that interviews Canadians regarding their healthcare. NO one wants free healthcare, it would be paid on a sliding scale. Get off Fox News Auggie, and do some real research! I have seen your blogs all around and you are a broken record!

[getplaning]

Who's paying NOW? The CEOs of the three largest health insurance companies each make around $30 million per year. Where do you think that money comes from?

[Auggie56]

I'm referring to when this insidious government heath care plan comes in. Who pays ? Or who don't pay, but still benefits ?

[TheRealArchAngel]

**A better approach would be to increase the size of the risk pool, cover all citizens at less cost, and remove the parasite insurance companies altogether**

Nationalize Hospitals and Pharmicudicals Industry?

Okay, but when, say, your mother gets Colon Cancer at 63 years old and it's severe but there is a 5 year waiting list for treating, don't bitch

Amd definately don't bitch if legislation makes it that Cancer after 50 isn't treated cause it isn't cost effective to heal the old

[getplaning]

Both points completely false. One of the best aspects of the health systems of Canada and Europe is how well-cared-for the elderly and disabled are. These people are not being thrown out on the curb as they are in the US. They live longer, healthier, more productive lives because theyre getting a constant level of care that ensures small things get fixed before they become big problems.

Nor do their adult children have to work 60-hour weeks trying to pay for their exorbitant health premiums.

[TheRealArchAngel]

**One of the best aspects of the health systems of Canada and Europe is how well-cared-for the elderly and disabled are**

And what is the income tax rate up there? 60%-65%?

**These people are not being thrown out on the curb as they are in the US.**

FYI. Most Seniors in US have Medicaid since the average HMOs are a Workforce thing

Medicaid is US fed government run and it's those that want national Healthcare kicking the Seniors to the curb right now

Gonna make a difference? No.

[brtrep13]

Your facts are completely wrong getplaning. Canda and Great Britain's health care sucks. They come over here because we have the best health care in the world. People in the US are not thrown out. There are laws that require hospitals to treat people WITHOUT healthcare so they can be treated. The people under socialized healthcare have shorter lives, less healthy, and no care because they wait in lines to get treated. Many in ther US don't even pay premiums, their employers do.

[getplaning]

It is your "facts" that are completely wrong. In statistics on life expectancy, death rates and even cholesterol readings and blood pressure, the United States is 23 points behind five leading economic competitors: Canada, Japan, Germany, the United Kingdom and France. Those five nations cover all their citizens, and though their systems differ, in each, the government plays a much larger role than in the U.S.

Source- Business Roundtable Health Care Value Comparability Study, Feb 2009.

[getplaning]

Further, your statement that people "come over here because we have the best health care in the world" is ridiculous on its face. People from other countries dont flock to the US for treatment. People with money who want to see the best-paid specialists head to the US, but that isnt an endorsement of the US system. Ask anyone from the UK, Canada, France or anywhere else if they would trade their healthcare system for an all-commercial system like the US and theyd laugh in your face.

[brtrep13]

I tried to link to some websites that describe stories of how this British kid had to travel to the United States to receive healthcare to treat a cancer that was unavailable in the UK. You can find this at the Daily Telegraph. Also there was a story about a British veteran who was denied treatment for an eye disease. Nationalized healthcare is designed to kill the private health insurance and to force everybody to a government plan. That way, people like Pelosi will decide whether you livet

[brtrep13]

or die. The government not only wants to control you material wealth, but they want to control your health. Because if they do, they own you and they want you to beg to them to keep them alive. Socialized medicine does not work. It never has and it will bankrupt the country even more than what it already is and it definately won't work here. It's just an attempt by the radicals in the government to control us even more.

[phillipmarch22]

WTF? You don't think the private insurance companies want to "control your health?" You talk about what will not work, but fail to admit the "free market" based private insurance companies are a complete and total failure! Same old GOP bullshit! They don't have any good ideas to fix anything and then they spread fear and lies cause they are so afraid of change. I hope the "public option" will put every single private insurance company out of business! They are murderers!

[brtrep13]

Another liberal propagandist. What the hell are you talking about private health insurance and the free market are complete failures. The private health insurance would be better if the government would get out of it completely. We have the best healthcare in the world. And besides that even if you don't have health insurance you still have to be treated because it's a law. If you don't like the free market healthcare, why don't you go to Canada or Great Britain so you can have your healthcare.

[phillipmarch22]

We might have the best healthcare in the world if you are rich! The insurance companies is who has to go! In a normal free market interprise, this is how it works. You go to your local hardware store to buy a hammer. The cost: $20. So, then you go to Home Depot and find the same hammer for $15. With health insurance companies all they do is compete to RAISE prices and deny care! They have had plenty of time to get their shit together. Hillary care failed and they got cocky! Off with their heads!

[brtrep13]

There are some things that do need to be changed to the healthcare system. The system is not perfect and that is because human being are not perfect. However, destroying the free-market solution is not the answer. We will end up like Canada and Great Britain, long lines, rejected treatment, and the government deciding for us if we live or die. This is not the solution to fix the health care system.

[phillipmarch22]

You are sugar coating how bad the private health insurance companies are. They do not follow a "free market" based organization. Far from it! The government WILL NOT decide if we live or die, they are deciding that it is good for the greatest nation in the world not to be 37th in healthcare! The private insurance companies have had plenty of time to FIX how they do business. The GOP doesn't want any regulation of them, so I say get rid of them. I am tired of the scare tactics.

[phillipmarch22]

We have socialized medicine right now. EVERYONE is covered, all you have to do is go to an emergency room. No money, no problem, we ALL will pay your medical bills. The Republicans voted against Medicare across the board, and for the most part it has been a success. My Mother and Grandmother are extremely happy with it. So the scare tactics and fear mongering is not going to fly! The goverment does just fine with the Post Office, the military, and a lot of other things.

[brtrep13]

How is Medicare doing great? It's going bankrupt mainly as a result from all of those illegals we treat. And yes, I have stated before that we do treat everybody because it is a law so why destroy it. Everybody is already covered. However, if you let the government be the only source of healthcare, there will be hell to pay and we know this because of Canada and the UK. And I'm glad that your mother and grandmother are pleased with our current system because I am to.

[phillipmarch22]

I can tell that you are not following the healthcare reform subcommittee meetings. There is a lot of reform going on in regard to Medicare. And the reason that private hospitals are going broke is because of the fact they have to treat everyone. My mother and grandmother are pleased with MEDICARE! Who says the government will be the ONLY sourse. The public option, (option), is an option to take instead of the private insurance companies. Stiff competetion is what those fuckers need!

[FrancescaGianna]

I don't trust our government anymore. I guess its supposed to be the norm not being able to trust your own government. I just can't get used to it.

[TheRealArchAngel]

Well, the Forefathers didn't trust anyone to run government without trying for a power grab which s why they made it multi-teared and so complicated with multiple branches and so many senators and Representative...so that the "to many chefs in the kitchen" would eventually stifle any power grab

Nationalized Health care has died everytime it has gone up to the Senate so far and Next year the Senator's are up for re-election

[FrancescaGianna]

Multi-teared doesn't matter when the majority rule are of the same party.

[TheRealArchAngel]

There are different kind of Democrats

The Liberal Democrats, Moderate Democrates, Conservative Democrats, Socialist Democrats, Communist Democrats, Union Democrats, Patriot Democrats, Mogal/Rich Democats,Capitalist/Business Democrats. Environut Democrats, and Minority/Poor Democrats have a hard time agreeing on everything...even between Hillary and Obama for a while...lol

[phillipmarch22]

There are certainly different kinds of Republicans! There are the social conservatives like Ensign and Sanford, the regular conservatives like george w. and then there are the Limbaugh conservatives, the Coulter conservatives, and on and on! They have a hard time agreeing too. Looks like it is an "every" party problem!

[TheRealArchAngel]

No,I hardly call expanding government and government programs, and the role of government in people's lives and in the markets "conservative action"

President Bush Jr was the the mos anti-Free market president up to that point until Obama came along

And Obama's counter to Bushe's regulations on free markets it to put more regulations

Bush expanded government and added to the National debt, and Obama's counter is to to More of the same

[brtrep13]

For one thing, a true conservative has the same basic understanding and there are not different conservatives. Also there will be disagreements. However, facts are facts, socialized healthcare does not work. and yes obamacare is socialized healthcare. It has failed in Europe and in Canada and it will fail here. Why can't liberals face facts?

[phillipmarch22]

There is NOTHING in the healthcare reform bill that is "Socialistic". You right wing freaks are ridiculous, if you could just learn how to tell the truth!

[blocity]

unfortunately, friend, we don't no what's in the healthcare reform bill because there is no provision. It's being pushed through by the dems at too fast a rate. even the lawmakers on Capitol Hill are complaining about the crunching of the plan, as there is too much information to organize and publish in the time alotted.

[phillipmarch22]

Unfortunately you haven't been watching the Sub-Committee meetings on healthcare. The Republcians and Democrats are ALL well read up on the bill. You are listening to main stream media, and the GOP is always saying that they don't have enough time to do anything. They are not going to vote on this bill until October.. I suggest you watch C-Span and see whats really going down. If the GOP doesn't straighten up and fly right, the Dems will decide they won't need 60 votes! I am forgetting the word!

[brtrep13]

They took over the car industry, credit card companies, they dictate ceo pay, they nationalized banks, if this so-called cap nad trade passes, they will control how we live at home and will skyrocket taxes, and they might nationalize healthcare.

[timmunst]

phillipmarch22, you say "The Republicans and Democrats are ALL well read up on the bill. " ??

What about that 3 AM amendment?

Did you even know about that?

Stop spewing all the liberal talking points and do some research on your own.

Use your brain and FIND THE TRUTH!

[phillipmarch22]

Since I didn't hear anything about this 3 a.m. amendment, I googled 3 a.m. healthcare amendment. The ONLY place I could find any information was Fox News, and they didn't say what the amendment was. Fox has to quit relying on the Congress GOP talking points. They never give facts. Sad really!

[timmunst]

phillipmarch22, Try watching CSPAN. Get the news live BEFORE the news media puts their spin on it!

Try goggling "Why did Liberals introduce 300 page Cap and Trade at 3 AM, and pressure congressmen to sign without reading it?"

Try not to be obsessed with Fox news.

Think for yourself!

[phillipmarch22]

The ONLY thing I watch is C-Span and I have been listening to weeks of subcommittees on the healthcare reform bill. Nothing happened at 3:00 a.m. on the Senate bill. The Democrats and Republicans have been working together for weeks on it. This 3:00 a.m., are you talking about the house bill? Thanks for the link.

[timmunst]

phillipmarch22- Here's the link so you can read the full text.

w w w (dot) supremeoverlord (dot) trideltatech (dot) net/pub/HR2998 (dot) pdf

Also try- opencongress (dot) org- to check any bill and its status.

[brtrep13]

Are you talking about the so-called "Cap and Trade" bill aka. Destroy and Tax. It makes me wander if the Democrats really know how to read. They didn't read this damn bill or the so-called stimulus bill which isn't stimulating anything. They have no clue what they are passing and it is pathetic.

[timmunst]

Yes. H.R. 2454 which is now H.R. 2998.

[phillipmarch22]

Oh, I forgot! I believe that anyone watching Fox News, CNN, or any other main stream media is either looking for a position on issues that comply with their political views or watch a certain station to validate their views. Congress members hire writers to give them hints for their speeches. For instance, you will hear a lot of GOP Congressman use the words "government takeover" in their speeches, the Democrats do it too. Best way to cut thru the bull is to act like a lawyer and read the bills.

[timmunst]

phillipmarch22 - If the ONLY thing you watch is C-Span, then how did you miss the last minute, 3:09 a.m, 300+ page amendment to the Waxman-Markley cap-and-trade bill?

It was a BIG deal!

It was rushed to the House floor for a vote.

Why were lobbyists involved in those back room meetings with Democrats?

Didn't BHO promise no lobbyists?

He even hired some for his cabinet!

We need to get rid of ALL in Washington w/ secret agendas, including this Pres!

[phillipmarch22]

When you call to get a quote for health insurance, not one insurance company will send you their policy book without you buying their plan first. NOT ONE! I have tried. (Also true with life insurance!) I really hope everyone learns through their own experience how corrupt health insurance companies are. I don't want ANYONE to have to deal with them after they get sick, but that is the only way you will REALLY be educated on the evils of that industry.

[timmunst]

All you have to do is ask a doctor to ask for the insurance policy book or have the insurance co send the policy book to your doctor.

You just say that you want your doctor to look it over and they will send it. Then have the doctor give it to you. That's what I did.

[phillipmarch22]

What if you don't have a doctor? Why won't they send it to you if you are the one buying the policy? I called 3 different life insurance companies and they would not send the policy book to me unless I signed up and paid over the phone. I have no respect for ANY insurance company. You know the company Aflac? They say they will pay household expences if you get cancer. Well, the fine print says they will only pay if your cancer has metastized. I found this out after I bought it. Small print!

[timmunst]

I would suggest that if you don't have a doctor then you should find one I have one that I have been to a few times at an urgent care center. He is very sympathetic about the insurance. All I had to do is explain what was going on and ask him. He didn't hesitate! Also he office staff can call and get it too.

Hope this helps you.

[phillipmarch22]

The government HAD NOT taken over anything. Please get off Fox News. The spending is temporary and the money is being paid back as we blog here! You obviously watch too much Fox News, you sound like a broken record. Nothing has failed in Canada, they like their healthcare. There are plenty of videos on this, get off Fox and look for them. You have no constructive advise, and that is why your party is on the extinct list!

[brtrep13]

Your ideology won't allow you to accept facts will they? Canadians come here for there healthcare. I get information from many other sources such as the UK Telegraph and others. And what are you talking about temporary spending. The majority of the spending won't start until 2010,11,and 12. The conservative movement is on the rise and it's going to be a very short time and those liberal politicians will be gone in the 2010 and 2012 elections.

[phillipmarch22]

I also know for a fact that when the Canadians come here for healthcare, the Canadian government, (the peoples taxes), send money with that person to pay for that procedure. I kinda hope that the GOP comes back in to power. They seem to have such great ideas on how to be fiscially responsible, let them get us out of the mess they got us in.

[brtrep13]

You might say that the GOP got us into this economic mess, however, Clinton started the housing bust which led to the economic collapse. And, I know Bush signed the first bailout, but you have to remember who was the majority in Congress. That was the Democrats. So they allowed the bill to get to the presidents pen for him to sign.

[phillipmarch22]

Yes, Clinton with a Republican Congress removed Glass/Stegal, (sic). Big mistake, Congress is currently working to reverse that. I disagree also that there was a Dem majority in Congress after 2006. 49 D, 49 R, 2 I. That is not a majority. Plus, most everything Congress did pass during that time, bush veteod. Google: Bush veto record. Top economists warned bush as early as 2003. We all must admit that bush only cared about one thing. The war of choice. He didn't care about domestic policy!

[phillipmarch22]

Even though you didn't say this, a lot of people are under the illusion that the Community Re-investment Act, (CRA) had something to do with the crash. That is totally wrong, it had absolutely NOTHING to do with it. ZERO, nothing! NOTHING in the CRA required banks or loan agencies to give low-doc or no-doc loans. My father was a morgtage banker and I know all about what went down with the housing market. 62% of forclosures are because of healthcare costs.

[phillipmarch22]

Were you born on January 20th or something! The lack of regulation brought on by both the Democrats and Republicans, (but completly ignored by the bush administration after repeated warnings), was the REASON we are in this cluster fuck. If you are talking about private insurance companies and the "free market" you would agree that by adding a public option plan is just another competitor. They need to cowboy up!

[TheRealArchAngel]

Here in Hawaii we HAD the State health Insurance Plan (SHIP) Hillary Clinton once drooled over & Obama would be aware of

It HAD a sliding scale payment system based on income and offered full medical and Dental

Slowly but surely Employeers started dropping their old Health plans and encouraging their employees to goto SHIP

People that paid for ther own HMO dropped their private HMO and applied for ship

Not only did this cause lot of HMO's to belly up but it eventually destroyed SHIP

[TheRealArchAngel]

Eventually SHIP was was handed over to the Department of Human Services (Hawaii Welfare) and it became where you can only be unemployed and/or make less then $400 a month to get full Dental and Medical, while Kids under 18 still got free medical and Dental

Recently Quest(formally SHIP) was so out of money that it droped it's full free dental/health for kids under 18,and kicked out certain family income levels for qualifying kids

So now it's another hand out to "Welfare bums"

[phillipmarch22]

Aloha, I used to live in Kona, Big Island, and Kaneohe, Oahu! I think the new healthcare reform bill is going to have stops that won't allow this. It will be a sliding scale pay thing and I think that Congress is looking close at what you just described.

[scflyer55]

It is not health care reform that the liberals care about. What they care about is making more people dependent on them.

There is no choice involved.

You will pay for govt. subsidized health care insurance whether you have it or not. There's only so much much in taxes you can levy before there is no incentive to earn.