Financial Crisis Debate (5 of 13) Jim Chanos

[Juvenal4668]

Jim Chanos: "Ladies and Gentlemen, I will pose to you that there has not been one major financial fraud in the last 25 years uncovered by the government, outside auditors or outside counsel. It has always been journalists, whistleblowers or short sellers."

[equsnarnd]

One of the unintended consequences of over regulation, of overly complex regulation, is that it attracts into business those less willing to be honest, to take the long view, to do the right thing.

[rexdeodium]

No, i want to hear more from Chanos! He's such a smart guy :(

[Renegen1]

And are you DOING anything about those evil government interferences like subsidies and regulations against small business? Of course not, you're voting for the latest batch of republicans. They might say the right things, and that's all you care about. Americans let the country fall into the dumps on their watch, you screwed up.

As a Canadian, I am biased. You have to take sides when it comes to your future. Enjoy your 20% unemployment, wars, poverty and huge deficits.

[bighitter42]

@Renegen1 I vary rarely vote Republican.

Yes I mean subsidies like those and the very existence of Medicare.

It's also a little telling that to find a suitable candidate for a monopoly you had to reach back into history over a full century.

[Renegen1]

No, it's a little telling that you can't think of any other monopoly example, I was simply bringing Standard Oil into it because it flat out dominated a gigantic market, making Rockerfeller the wealthiest person alive...

Intel has just been forced yesterday to pay over $1 billion to AMD because it used its monopoly power (controlling 80% of chip market). Yes, the "evil" government came after Intel for trying to kill their only competitor.

Intel also had similar trials in the EU.

[bighitter42]

@Renegen1 Wow! What a monopoly. I type this on a computer with an AMD processor. Lord knows that Intel only has a large market share because they're evil.

Just absolutely obscene that businesses profit from intellectual property and good decisions.

How dare Standard push small businesses under by bringing people energy at a lower cost than previously existed! Those meanies.

The only thing Canadian I envy is your more reasonable immigration and work visa policies.

[Nuanceqwest]

Thats right Jim...........human nature never changes and you understand that as every other great stock market operator.

[motownmaniax]

Regulations on the books need to be finally "enforced", and the loopholes exposed by the financial crisis need to be plugged with some new, fine-tuned regulation, but for those to argue for "less" regulation, after such a textbook example of runaway greed and arrogance to rules, is patently insane. Laissez faire, hands-off approach to our financial markets is precisely what got us in our present mess in the first place.

[jvittetoe]

Chanos is a pud.

[bighitter42]

I make the argument that LESS regulation is needed. In fact the Austrian economists who predicted this situation argue for less regulation.

Excessive regulation are a huge part of the current problem.

[jarrbear05]

You are absolutely correct. Remember, Bernie Madoff had tons of regulations on his company (as well as government audits) and it did nothing.

[Renegen1]

@bighitter42 I don't disagree with you that the Fed is a huge part of the problem but your view of the world is overwhelmingly simplistic. You wouldn't even know of the hundreds of different conflicts of interest that fester in an Investment Bank, or the "Agency Risk" that Chanos speaks of, if you bothered to listen. Those 2 problems are not caused by regulation..

[bighitter42]

@Renegen1 I wouldn't know of them?  I understand fully what agency risk is. As a shareholder, if I'm not comfortable with management, then I need to work to change it or I'll invest my money elsewhere. If you're not comfortable doing your own due diligence, then perhaps you don't need to be investing...you should be saving.

If there's fraud, then prosecute them for fraud.

[Renegen1]

Well a lot of shareholders dont care, they are called institutional investors :P It's the reality we have today, and I called you out on it because you blamed all problems on too much regulation. Some problems come from the market.

[bighitter42]

@Renegen1 Didn't mean to imply that the marketplace is perfect, it's certainly not. I'll take the problems created by the people over the problems created by government any day of the week.

[Renegen1]

Great cop-out

[bighitter42]

@Renegen1 Maybe...but it's true. I've yet to be shown a problem that isn't theft or fraud that's actually a problem.

[Renegen1]

Monopolies? Or how about the food industry that makes people unhealthy and socializes costs? Or how about not respecting the environment? Corporations privatize profits and socialize costs, but that's ok with you. Typical american who hates government and thinks he knows it all. The government sucks and is corrupt but that's because YOU, as voters, suck and dont hold your politicians accountable.

[bighitter42]

@Renegen1 I would really like you to direct me to a couple of(hell even one,) monopolies that lasted without government interference and protection.

I'd also like you to explain where you got the notion that I'm okay with socializing any costs from anywhere in any situation.

Typical Canadian who ASSumes that all Americans have a worse education than they do.

Like your politicians are really fantastic and honest people. Give me a break.

I'm just an individual that loves freedom.

[Renegen1]

To say that monopolies only persist because of "government interference" (define it) is ridiculously ignorant and shows you don't know the first thing about business. Want to talk about one of the biggest monopolies of all? Standard Oil, it controlled 90% of WORLD SUPPLY of oil until it was broken up by... the US government.

Yes you are ignorant, and brainwashed too, to suggest that the solution to the US's problems are exactly what led it to this mess. Have fun with debt slavery. "freedom" lol

[bighitter42]

@Renegen1 You might know that at the time of it's breakup Standard Oil only held about 60% of the market, competition was already in the process of killing the monopoly when the government interfered. Maybe you don't....

Government interference can range from artificial interest rates, regulations that prevent smaller companies from being competitive, taxes(or subsidies for other businesses, or things like minimum wage laws.

But it's not like Canadians can be expected to be neutral here.

[Renegen1]

Let me guess, you read that on Wikipedia? You couldn't even tell me why Standard Oil "lost" market share. In fact it didn't, it dominated the US oil market. Are you seriously saying that monopolies are always broken up? How long are you able to wait, 4 decades, like in Standard Oil's case?

As for government interference and subsidies, that's really rich. You mean like the subsidies that private health care insurers get against government Medicare?

[pagola]

@bighitter42  LMAO

[BallaholicNo10in89]

@bighitter42 loose monetary policy obviously fuels bubbles, but what essentially causes them is human psychology and unregulated markets would certainly not solve this problem.

[bighitter42]

@BallaholicNo10in89 Without free money being pumped into the bubbles through the fed, I don't see bubbles hurting anyone other than those who made the poor decision to jump in. The bubble is much smaller, people lose money in one industry, but it doesn't threaten investments across the board.

Bubbles will exist for eternity, unless you propose having a new government agency that determines who and how many people can invest in a particular good or service. So you're correct it's human nature.