I’ve worked for both union and non-union shops since 1966 and I found that union shop employees worked harder then the non-union workers. The non-union shops were full of brownnosers and squealers who were less interested in work and more interested in shit stirring. The bosses would have their flunkies watching everyone and if you took to long on a break you’d hear about it, kind of like communism. Scumbag conservatives want to take all worker rights away and support the corporate pigs.
Stationary Fireman for Dept of Corrections: $109,429.53
Barber for the Dept of Corrections: $88,475.47
Beautician (for real) for the Dept of Corrections: $75,563.32
Painter for the Dept of Corrections: $92,832.48
Laborer for the Dept of Transportation: $86,887.86
These are real IL 2010 earnings, look it up, it's all public. And these crooks just got a 14% raise as our income tax increased 66% last yr to pay for it, dont get me started on their pensions
Okay, just stop all this back and forth rallying of pro-union versus anti-union supporters. The reality is that both sides have lost. The long term is that owners of private companies and share holders of all the other companies, along with the workers for both companies have all lost. And Why....because a very large percentage of the jobs in manufacturing have now gone out of North America to other parts of the world, ie., CHINA. We are now no more than vendors of incoming foreign goods!
@whistlewing The owners of the private companies and the greedy shareholders have won in all this. The goods are produced at 1/10th the rate here and the prices stay the same so the owners and shareholders make huge profits.
I am so thankful for the power the union movement had in Australia. Workers are so much better off than other developed countries aka America. And we have a better welfare and health system too. :)
There must be more unions in the world. Mgmt cares nothing about it's workers but the bottom line and what's good for the shareholders. Unions are for dignity, respect and rights for the worker. A fair wage and benefits to raise a family. That is all a worker wants. One may think a union worker makes alot of money? Take a look at the mgmt salary? Usually double for doing nothing!
@nannyberries... The problem with you is you can't search through the bull. I used your search and see you are a puppet because if you did a thorough search of your recommended search... you would see that those sights are corporate owned.
Your search on "History of Labor Unions" leads you to another conservative writer. When are you going to get a brain?!? Are you that gulible?
As for Dues... again... it makes a small dent compared to multi-national corporation's wealth.
@nannyberries... your response is WRONG!! Unions are organizations that are created by workers for workers. The money you claim in dues is pitance to the company's $100 million or billions.
Top union bosses (who were democratically elect by union members) make $400K? What are you smoking? If they were making that amount of money, it was because their members said they can. Get off the Faux News because its rotting your brain.
You need to stop being a puppet to multinational corporations.
@amnman Every due adds up to be that large sum of money. You do get benefits from the unions, but that is because you work for them as well as the companies.
As far as union bosses salary, just do a search with this (union bosses salary) Then tell me I am wrong. Also search for this (UNION BOSS TRUMKA ADMITS MAIN GOAL IS USING UNIONS TO FUNDAMENTALLY CHANGE AMERICA INTO HIS PROGRESSIVE VISION…NOT NEGOTIATE MEMBER SALARIES)
@amnman Why would you think I am smoking anything? So the members vote on their salary as well. Also check this out (FactSheets/CardCheckFactSheet) I do not get my information only from Fox news. I am nobodies puppet. I search and read both sides and form my own opinion. Here is another (A History of Labor Unions from Colonial Times to 2009
Mises Daily: Friday, July 17, 2009 by Morgan Reynolds)
@Bartolomeus002 You seem to repeat the boardroom lingo well, private media is just a corporate mouthpiece. State media is state mouthpiece. Be careful of that especially if you're a worker, you need to know who really represents your true interests.
Unions are for Lame Socialists who are too lazy and stupid to band together and form Worker Cooperatives so they beg like dogs on the leesh of the government who cut their balls off.
@Shargrailar... I don't know what world you live in but labor laws have been reduced since unions have been reduced... 1950s... workers in unions was over 30%... now is less than 15%. Last 10 years, labor related laws were either weakened or removed. Look how long minimum wage took to be updated... and even then...it wasn't enough. Unions are needed in this country and needed bad.
@nannyberries... unions are NOT a business! It is an organization of employees that are tired being abused by employer that don't operate fairly. Quit spouting lies!
@amnman read my response to eatbeavers. Unions collect $1 million a year in dues and top bosses make up to $400,000 a year. Not bad for not being a business. Union member benefits through the afl-cio, union plus, cellular service, scholarships, and more. Only available for members. Also sounds like a business. No?
@rmbl2001 Pension plans were not a result of the unions. 1875 was the first privet pension plan, established by the American Express Company. Search for history of pension plans. 401k also was not the result of the unions.
@eatbeavers Well the first part is a question. If you come up with an answer I will try and show my reason why I would disagree whit it.
This next part is to show why I believe my second sentence to be true. Look up the word business in any dictionary. Also look up corporation in any dictionary. By those definitions alone, show that unions fit into both categories. Unions sell labor (product) To benefit shareholders (workers) Reading aflcio.org site shows it to be a business.
@nannyberries I don't know what planet you are from but.... My union is a non-profit. I recieve a good pension and have accumulated quite a nice 401 for my 33 years of service. The companies I worked for were highly successful in spite of paying a fair wage. Go figure....
Just ask the unions what they did with the automobile industry.
Unions were an important in the 1860's but in modern times labor laws have caught up with the all the cracks workers fell in. Now its just another layer of ticks milking the workers.
the republicans and corporate lobbyists have successfully pitted the poor against the poor, conservatives are polarized on this issue and republican voters (which are mainly poor and working class) always side with privatization and claim that union workers have got it made, union pay rates and pensions are pennies compared to what really needs to be cut, if you have shitty pay and a crappy pension maybe its time you created a union. unions have given everyone minimum wage, benifits, etc
@metalgear767 Amen ! The corporate propaganda machine has been convincing workers to vote against their own interests for decades and people wonder why they can't get ahead. Maybe people are starting to wake up.
@DoctorCapitalist The threat of violence against the opulent used to save the working class is favorable to the threat of death against the working class to save the opulent.
@DoctorCapitalist Proletariat? The fuck are you talking about? Cooperating? No, I don't *support* prison or any punishment at all for tax evaders, I don't see a problem with it, but I'd rather that regime exist than the regime of no government to protect the gains the labor movement has made in the past hundred years, because I think the latter is less desirable for a lot more people.
@nocturnezero If you want to make a change, do it through peaceful voluntary means. If workers want to make the workplace safer, they do so by going on strike or by getting people to boycott them. This will make business owners lose profits and improve the work conditions. You DO NOT use the initiation of violence to get your way.
@DoctorCapitalist Law is the threat of violence for people who violate it not unlike property ownership is the threat of violence for people who violate rules on that property.
@nocturnezero Property rights apply to the human body. If someone does something with my body against my will they have violated my property rights and my "violence" would be self defense. The state does not own property legitimately.
@DoctorCapitalist Your right over your body is the right to self-ownership. Self-ownership does not extend to the right of increase over land or capital you own. Nobody owns property legitimately.
@nocturnezero Property rights come from the fact that we own the effects of our actions. If the social "contract" which is used to justify the state is legitimate and objective, then surely I can enforce my own social contract on everyone. After all it is objective and absolute, right? Also if someone steals something from me, they have enslaved me for the amount of time I put into gaining that item.
@nocturnezero For example, if I spend 5 hours working to get enough money to buy a television and someone steals the television from me, they have enslaved me for 5 hours, they have stolen my time and labour.
@DoctorCapitalist There are better alternatives, obviously, but right now I'm only handling the options of government enforcing labor standards, or labor standards being left entirely to market forces.
@nocturnezero Oh, and there's no historical evidence that shows that millions of people will die without government intervention in the economy. There is plenty of historical evidence that shows that millions of people have died at the result of statism and violence.
collective work has its benefits, granted. however unions crush an individuals creativity, spontaneity and discernment. communities with strong union presence typically are self existence focused and are really not about others.
Unions are not out to help corporations, nor are corporations out to help workers. Its the free market. People buying labour want to pay as little as possible (just like people buying any good) and people supplying labour want to get as much as possible for the good they are selling.
This means banding together to control a larger portion of the supply, just as commodity sellers do to increase their market share.
Treating unions as some magic "third entity" is faulty logic.
@LiberInterdico No, Unions allow workers to negotiate a greater share of the fruits of their labours. we could always put the means of productiuon into the ownership of the workers and then we wouldn't need unions. What do you think, comrade?
Step back a second and think about what you just said. "Negotiate a greater share", aka "More money". That is fine, this is capitalism. Capital owners incorporate into corporations to better negotiate a greater share of the wealth generated from the use of their private property. There is nothing stopping people from making their own business where they are both the owner and the worker, every small business (just about) starts that way.
@LiberInterdico We can't really expect everyone to start small businessees, can we? It would not meet the needs of the population or eceonomy. We could, however, give the means of production (including 'private property') back to the workers and every gets an even share. And free healthcare. And education. And a place to live. It would eradicate noth poverty and unemployment.
@Milomix 1.) Yes we can, its pretty easy to be a contractor. 2.) If you let "the government" take people's private property to give to others it will not go to "the average joe", it will be taken from the "average joe" to give to the wealthy. There is also no such thing as "free" someone pays for everything. So who is forced to work in the mines or as a septic worker while someone has a desk job for the same pay? How can you have an even share with uneven work?
@1Skeptik and I can tell you horror stories of what happens when there are no unions involved in the workplace. ...Unions are an important balance to corporate power over workers, it is when that balance is lost that problems happen..
@McBunny71 Unfortunately the unions are the biggest bullies on the playground and they are all gov sponsored. The balance you speak of was lost decades ago.
@simspawn I am sorry you feel that way Simspawn - I notice that you live in the US, I live in Australia where this ad was created - things may be different here from what you have experienced. And working in the public service here I can tell you they are NOT government sponsored....far from it.
"Unions frequently add undue cost to doing business" workers rights are under attack and all you can think of are the poor defenseless corperations....ok mr bourgeoise enjoy the right to hold stupid opinions while you can cause fascism isnt coming, its here and im sorry if you dont have the heart to stand up for yourself and other working people. i feel sorry for ignoramuses like you. the Union makes us strong. Solidarity Forever.
@autonomia386 The business man is not your enemy. I was a UAW member, later a supervisor and manufacturing engineer, 13 yrs. UAW environement. I managed small business, started a "successful" from scratch business, semi retired at 53. Fact is I am not anti union, I am anti stupidity. My first comment stands - The stupidity of the LOCAL cost me and a few thousand more good people good jobs. Feel free to assert I know nothing of business and uinon mentality. One of us a bit myopic. Regards
@simspawn Listen mr Blackshirt, i think you need to ease off that faux news. Facism is "socialism" Capitalism is "democracy" and Wars are "humanitarian interventions" . Unions protect workers from unfair practices that result from the greed of the capitalists. Go read a book you facist ignoramous. Stop letting Tv news people tell you what to think
@autonomia386 I don't watch tv~ Unions haven't been needed to protect people from unfair practices for decades, and who protects workers from the unions unfair practices? Do you honestly believe any group with that much power isn't abusing it in some way? Capitalist greed, you spout ignorance in every comment you make~
@simspawn Unions haven't been needed to protect people for decades? hmm... please type in "Sullenberger Congress" and do a you tube search. If Pilots could form a Union, they wouldn't be paid less than Taxi Drivers.
@MrSupertwo As moving as that was I stand by my point. If airlines are willing to sacrifice safety to protect their bottom line, that's their choice. If they don't feel they are being fairly paid that's the choice they should make. I don't agree with the practice, but PAY rates are not rights.. If you don't wanna do the job for the pay don't do it. Driving a taxi may not be as difficult, but it is a more consistently used service would surprise me taxi drivers make better money than pilots.
@simspawn But, Freedom to organize is a RIGHT! And, my point is still the same. Unions are still needed in this day and age. And, it's needed for the very simple reason that Employers will still try to exploit the worker in every which way possible. Sorry, that sounds very Marxist, but, it's the truth. Pay Rates are not Rights. Organization is a Right!
Unions frequently add undue cost to doing business. Example: It took 4 tradesmen 4 hrs. to run a phone line into an office where I worked, (I could have done it in 1 hr.) Example 2 : A friend worked for Peterbuilt, employeees were very well compensated. Contract time - Company made last and best offer, union said no way. The gates were locked, employees shocked in disbelief, plant moved - game over. I could fill pages of horror stories. Regards
I have nothing against unions. But their should be no government regulation forcing employers to work with unions (employers should be allowed to fire the entire group if they wish). And no member of the work force should be required to join a union to keep their job if a union is elected in to the company.
Both violate individual freedom which I believe is unethical.
if you did your own thing good for you. My union has worked too get a real a pay rise and 26 weeks paid maternity leave. Unions are made of free thinking people I
@unionposter If it were only so simple. I'll cut to the heart of the matter. The leadership in the union I was a member of was not smart enough to understand the company had to make a profit and generate a return for the share holders. Free thinkiing? General membership meetings were usually held on Sunday afternoons when contracts were voted on. You could bet about 1/4 of them were dunk by then, it was quite a specticle. As I said, 10,000 good jobs gone, will never return. Regards
@N33DL3R To funny! With no union, I started my own business, made more money in much less time with far fewer headaches, sold and moved to FL. at 53. Start a business, you will get an education very quickly. Regards
@cheeriosinabowl I agree 100%! My point: managing or owning a business tends to broaden ones perspective. Most definately, it is not for everyone. Regards
@1Skeptik1 The union isn't the executive. It is the members as a collective You and your co-workers. Where were you when decisions were being voted on? You are a member and have a right to have your say and cast your vote.
@0ldtimeh0ckey Hind sight is 20/20. Fact is, UNIONS had their day, over played their hand and hurt many good people, all history now. We have a bigger problem and that is inside the Beltway. Policy in this country is for sale an that directly impacts our standard of living. Consider: TV's to toasters, no longer made here and can't be for profit with the Dollar buying what it does abroad. No factory, no jobs,no union. (I was a manufacturng engineer long ago) Both parties sold us out!
@1Skeptik1 Do you want to work for what people in China or the other SE Asian countries that our consumer goods are made in? Throw in with that their lack of environmental standards, human rights or employment standards? Where your 10 and 12 yearold child is put to work for less pay than the adults and never gets an education?
Corporations have gone off shore for a way bigger list of reasons than just pay in North America.
@0ldtimeh0ckey Corp off shore? Yes, I said as much, largely due to exchange rates set behind closed doors (policy). Consider: Wal MART sells new 17 speed bikes for $88, shipped from Asia 10,000 miles away, pays an employe to assemble and makes a profit. I CAN NOT open a modern bicycle factory here to manufacture bicycles and ship accross the street for that same $88, only a fool would try. No factory=no jobs=no union. We are still loosing jobs my friend, union or not. Regards
@1Skeptik1 I agree. We are losing jobs union or not. Which is why I don't understand people who are blaming the union for it.
Even under our current employment standards legislation our min. wage can't compete with child slave labour.
Company goes off shore, wages at home drop, we demand cheaper goods, greater exploitation of labour elsewhere happens and the spiral to the bottom gets tighter and faster.
Private sector workers should form a general union. Maybe then minimum wage could be raised to a basic living wage instead of a paycheck that sends it's recipient to a food bank for food and a charity shop for clothes.
@porkfwrywry - Good question. But isnt this one for the Corporations to answer ? In fact, why limit it to this - increase the taxation rates for the upper-class as well ? Your Govt. might gain some ground on the budget-deficit. But No !! Americans are too cowardly to ask this to Corporations or the rich !! They find Unions an easy target - because Unions work for them after all !!
@spjose161 People just dont understand that Unions are not needed... there are laws all over to protect workers.. nowadays public workers get more benefits than the private. Do i need to remind you that Government doesnt produce capital.. Where is this coming from.... the People... therefore the people suffer when big unions ask for benefits that the private industry could not even imagine to provide. Just look at the recession for public workers. Doesnt even touch the private sector.
@brixcity17 - Having a Union is one of those laws that are there to protect workers. Ever wondered why ?
The Government whatever it gets from people - spends it on people. Then what are you complaining about ?
The pvt, industry used to provide better benefits than the Govt. Did you realise when its benefits sunk even below the levels of the Govt ? And now you're basically complaining that the pvt sector has sunk so low and there is nothing you can do about it. Why? Cos you dont have any Unions !
Whats wrong with addressing the most glareing problems on both sides of the issue? Example; union worker who is caught stealing and keeps job or on the other side a manager who hands out the bad jobs to people he doesn't like. Why can't we sit down and work these things out? I bet it would be more productive than calling each other nasty names and throwing insults to people you don't know.
Without the unions, the middle class probably would never have existed. We would have been exploited mercilessly by greedy corporations, and paid a pittance.
Not all of us can be professionals earning 6 digit incomes, but at the same time, we just ask for a fair wage for a reasonable lifestyle.
@cheeriosinabowl Disagree - When does the "UNION" have enough? NEVER Ask me, been there done that. (UAW at GM topped out over $79 per hr, counting fringe, few professionals earn that) Regards
... over $79 / hour ??? I find that hard to believe. I am a unionized worker and earn NOTHING remotely close to that amount. When does the UNION have enough? Let me ask you, when does anyone anywhere have enough ??? That goes for unions, management, all professionals, workers, everybody. Greed abounds !! All I ask for is a fair, liveable wage so I can live like a human, instead of a pauper. Unions are not perfect, I know that.
The union labor I have been FORCED to hire in the past really wasn't worth more than $2/hr to be honest, so you are right, that is how capitalism works. They are a lazy, overpaid, bunch of buffoons. Kinda like tenured teachers, but don't get me started on that. I worked hard in school, spent years in college, and barely come close to the idiots that make $30, 40, $50/hr to "set it and forget it" a thousand times a day on assembly lines, and a monkey could probably do it twice as often....hmm.
@ars62287 - The funny thing about capitalism is - as it has done in the past - it doesnt stop at $16. It will drive your wages down to that of $2/hr in China or $1 in India. In fact, why give you a wage at all - I'll give you decent food and stay. That is what uncontrolled capitalism degenerates into as history shows. Every salary is after all a loss to the employer. As in Taoism, for everything there needs to be a balance - a yin for a yang. And unions are your balance. Any better ideas ?
The union movement should be thanked for the current woking conditions enjoyed by all workers. So why do so many workers resent the current union movements?
@SPAD58 because the right is VERY good at the message war. they have even turned the word "liberal" into a bad word and i have to be careful about who i tell that i'm a socialist. it's pretty fucking ridiculous.
@GermAmp55 Interesting because I have seen the same thing only I have to be careful who I tell I'm a fiscal conservative. It is ridiculous, I'll bet the real answer is somewhere in the center. We can have a rich society that offers total freedom and opportunity and at the same time takes care of the less gifted.
@GermAmp55 Interesting because I have seen the same thing only I have to be careful who I tell I'm a fiscal conservative. It is ridiculous, I'll bet the real answer is somewhere in the center. We can have a rich society that offers total freedom and opportunity and at the same time takes care of the less gifted. I don't equate socialism with liberalism. Socialism has good ideas but if allowed to expand unchecked can lead to a form of "economic slavery" someone has to work and pay.
@ars62287 - That is what everyone and all the private sector ppl SHOULD have been getting as well !!
Let me ask you a simple question - why dont the private sector employees try to raise their benefits to that level - and that is when you would realise what an arse you have been made by big corporations !!
@spjose161 Good simple question, heres the simple answer; some do. Like the UAW, they lobbied and got in bed with corrupt officials and destroyed our domestic auto industry. Why the fuck should anyone get payed $65/hr to be on an assembly line, sure we can argue power to the people, but guys, it doesnt work, it breaks up, $16/hr is fine for unskilled labor, get over your greed, or get a different job or make your OWN!... its America after all
Screw it, let’s talk pensions. They get 80% salary plus 3% cost of living increase each year. So that stationary fireman (doesn’t require GED, HS Diploma , or tech degree) retires at 50 (25 & out) making $109,429.53, considering the 14% raise, he will be collecting $242,240.14/yr at 80, which comes to $4,990,253.85, all tax $, all for nothing. These greedy pigs cause layoffs for the REAL over-taxed, lower paid, more common non-Government American worker.
You're calling firefighters greedy lazy pigs? Men and women who put their lives on the line? Who have some of the highest cancer rates? Who didn't hesitate to run into the burning World Trade Centre and died in the hundreds? You call them lazy pigs? You POS. Shame on you! And by the way, your numbers are nonsense.
@candlefish99 My numbers are nonsense? You can look them up right now, its public online, really look it up! I worked in a Gov union, it was garbage, and I’m currently a volunteer non-union firefighter, so suck my dick with your bullshit example. You should be ashamed of yourself for repeating un-researched crap, drown in truth. Just because unions represent laziness and shame doesn’t mean everyone in them is the same, it’s called closed shop, try to read its definition before you respond.
United we bargain, divided we beg. Unions are necessary today more than ever. Every major corporation is looking to cut costs by paying people as little as possible so they can keep as much as possible in profit. What they do not seem to understand is this: if we have no money to spend, how are we supposed to buy their product? Thus the problem exists. People need a mechanism to stand up and defend themselves. A union is that mechanism. It is many acting as one. That is what a union is, one.
... you make good points. Unions are not perfect, but without them, we workers would have been in the poor house from the get-go. Corporations are just cold blooded moneywhores.
That’s all good and well, to some extent. The issue facing America today is out-of-control public-sector (Government) unions. They divert tens of millions of $ yearly to corrupt officials to help to further the already outlandish gap between their wealth and that of the private sector American worker. Resulting in further lay-offs of the common, lower paid/over-taxed American.
@ars62287 Unions cannot directly finance a political campaign in the USA. It is illegal. The same goes for Corporations. Regardless, even if they were allowed, they would be limited to $2,500 annually per political campaign. Unions can set up PAC's, but those are solely voluntary contribution based (member voluntarily agrees to contribute an amount outside dues money). No union can use dues money for political purposes in the USA. Period. Please remember that.
@ColdFusionMk1 AFSCME was No.1 Spender in the 2010 elections, contributing around $91 million to Democratic Party members campaigns, while it is illegal to use dues directly (and I'm sure these always honest union bosses adhere to these laws), members use their insanely high wages that are given them by these corrupt officials, it's a vicious cycle that robs the vast majority of American workers who are not employed by the Government. That's how janitors end up making over $100k yearly, greed.
@ars62287 Most government workers make around $30K - $50K a year. I fail to see how they are overpaid. I do know and understand that the AFSCME was the largest INDEPENDENT contributor to campaigns. I believe that most government workers simply want to keep their jobs and their relatively fair rate of pay and health insurance. As you well know, unions are made up of members. Those members elect and appoint the leadership from within their ranks. That "union boss" probably used to be a janitor.
@ColdFusionMk1 Janitor for Secretary of State: $96,153.25
Stationary Fireman for Dept of Corrections: $109,429.53
Barber for the Dept of Corrections: $88,475.47
Beautician (for real) for the Dept of Corrections: $75,563.32
Painter for the Dept of Corrections: $92,832.48
Laborer for the Dept of Transportation: $86,887.86
These are real IL 2010 earnings, look it up, it's all public. And these crooks just got a 14% raise as our income tax increased 50% and dont get me started on their pensions
@ars62287 The only job who's pay I personally disagree with is the Janitor for the SoS. A Laborer for the DoT should be paid well, due to the hazardous environment and potentially inclimate weather conditions that they may encounter. Anything in the DoC should be paid well because of the potential for bodily harm and/or death as a result of the inmates they may deal with. I personally believe that if a person works a job, they deserve a pension at the end of it for their many years of service.
@ars62287 Also, if you do not feel that the unions are being honest, you can look up their financial records since they have to be submitted to the Government. Look up the LM-2 records if you want. It is all public information.
@ColdFusionMk1 uhhhhh.... no.... If everyone could only put in 2,500 dollars then how would the rich influence politics. PAC's can pump in as much money as they want into politicians... Learned that at a community college in Springfield Missouri. Back to my point. There are not enough rich to pump in millions of dollars if they could only put in 2,500 dollars. Your numbers do not add up. PAC's have more power than you must have been told.
@ColdFusionMk1 The fuckin retarded Supreme court ruled corporations are people so they can directly contribute. Corporation can't even go to jail its fucking insane
@ColdFusionMk1 That's just not true! They can't use union dues to give directly to individual politicians campaigns, but they can use them for advertising and donating to PACs and political parties. Thanks to a 2010 Supreme Court decision Unions and Businesses alike can spend tens of millions of dollars to effect elections. How else could Unions spend 74.5 million in 2008, with 68.3 million going to Democrats? Unions do use dues for political purposes, in addition voluntary funds! Know the truth
That's it. I just cancelled my Union membership and benefits. I'm going to bargain with my employer (A fortune 500 company) all by lonesome. I'll let you know how it goes!
Unions of workers will always exist whilst there are as many greedy & unscrupulous employers as there are still today. I will gladly say Unions aren't necessary when that situation is no longer a reality. And pigs might fly.
@gnads1 You are so right. The greed of big business today is the worst since the pre-union days. The unions will certainly make a big comeback because most non-union jobs today are minimum wage, part time and no benefits. And to make sure that they make even more obscene profits, companies are moving to Korea, China and Mexico where there are no labour laws and the wages are a couple of bucks an hour.
No Union or Union rep wants to see a business close/ go broke. It's just foolish to even suggest it. That would result in loss of jobs thence members & then finances. So blaming Unions for closing business total bullshit. Workers want a fair days pay for a fair days work so they can afford good health cover & they want security of employment ,a safe workplace with reasonable conditions & pension benefits (we call it superannuation) so they to can retire comfortably not just the elitists.
To engineerdoctor & all the other "workers Unions" bashers it's obvious you are just some capitalist puppets with your head firmly wedged in your anal orifices. You morons can't see the woods for the trees. Forget organised crime the biggest militant & closed shop Unions in your country & mine are Unions of Employers. And it's those Unions of Employers that have put us in the current economic downturn (GFC) Through sheer greed,lies & deception.
Aw, this was just the sweetest, heart-felt propaganda. Collective bargaining is for pussies. I'll bet not a damn one of you union assholes wants to run a company with union workers. Then you'd be forced by our country's ridiculous laws to not only give a slacker more & more dough, you'd never be able to fire his ass, either.
@nachodaddy Unionized workers cannot strike for economic reasons therefore "giving a slacker more and more" is false. If unions struck over money the union employees can and will be fired with NO protection from the union OR the government. Also, yes, you can be fired if you're a union member. My company is union and we fire guys regularly because they don't follow company protocol. When these employees refuse to work by company standards the union backs the companies decision to terminate them.
for all those people that think we union workers are not educated think again. I have many co workers with higher educations then the salary workers at my plant in iowa. Without unions the companies would exploit us people for everything that is possible.
@icwatson I helped build the Trump Tower a couple years ago as an iron worker in Chicago and let me tell you, union workers are not smart, but they are very witty lol. But anyways, I don't want to start name calling unlike other people commenting on here. But, if you were going to open up a factory and had the choice between one state where regulation and taxes are low, and another state where regulation and taxes were high. Which would you choose to open your job creating factory?
Today's Unions are corrpupted and greedy! Many unoin workers do not have the right to demand igher wages with out having a college degree! Due to not having a college degree, I now have to accept minimum wage and the union workers can keep making way too much money, more than they are worth! That is why many companies are going to China, because of the union workers!
@patsaxon What a load of bullshit. Companies are being set up in China, Korea and Mexico so that the poor workers there can be exploited. They are paid low wages, have no benefits, and there are very few regulations governing how they are treated. When these companies can get away with this, they enjoy profits that are obscene. They keep the price of what is manufactured there the same as when it was made in Canada and/or the States.
@eaterHP You sure are right there. Also unions will become more important here too as workers struggle to make ends meet. C'mon unions! Let's end the greed of the facist owners.
@patsaxon - Many people CANNOT afford to go to college. This does not make them any less worthy of a decent salary and benefits. Everyone has a right to be able to support themselves and their families, and this is virtually impossible on minimum wage. Thank God for unions!
@laceyemily1 That's bull shit. Ever heard of financial aid, scholarships, and student loans? My mother wasn't able to pay for an MIT education for me, but I still graduated from there in three years. And the ability to support your family isn't a right. if you were going to open up a factory and had the choice between one state where regulation and taxes are low, and another state where regulation and taxes were high. Which would you choose to open your job creating factory?
@patsaxon You are totally right. The reason why globalization began was because labor here became way to expensive. Why would someone open a factory in America where they will be forced to pay the low skilled workers $50/hr and give them amazing benefits when they can find much cheaper labor in China?
I’ve worked for both union and non-union shops since 1966 and I found that union shop employees worked harder then the non-union workers. The non-union shops were full of brownnosers and squealers who were less interested in work and more interested in shit stirring. The bosses would have their flunkies watching everyone and if you took to long on a break you’d hear about it, kind of like communism. Scumbag conservatives want to take all worker rights away and support the corporate pigs.
whizzles1 1 month ago
Janitor for Secretary of State: $96,153.25
Stationary Fireman for Dept of Corrections: $109,429.53
Barber for the Dept of Corrections: $88,475.47
Beautician (for real) for the Dept of Corrections: $75,563.32
Painter for the Dept of Corrections: $92,832.48
Laborer for the Dept of Transportation: $86,887.86
These are real IL 2010 earnings, look it up, it's all public. And these crooks just got a 14% raise as our income tax increased 66% last yr to pay for it, dont get me started on their pensions
ars62287 1 month ago
Okay, just stop all this back and forth rallying of pro-union versus anti-union supporters. The reality is that both sides have lost. The long term is that owners of private companies and share holders of all the other companies, along with the workers for both companies have all lost. And Why....because a very large percentage of the jobs in manufacturing have now gone out of North America to other parts of the world, ie., CHINA. We are now no more than vendors of incoming foreign goods!
whistlewing 1 month ago
@whistlewing The owners of the private companies and the greedy shareholders have won in all this. The goods are produced at 1/10th the rate here and the prices stay the same so the owners and shareholders make huge profits.
MrAlsfan5 1 week ago
this was totally lifted from the life of brian!
94lukepl 2 months ago
@94lukepl
That's the joke...
ResaFMkII 1 month ago
Thank goodness for unions. For those of you who disagree, every single benefit of any kind was obtained by the union movement.
MrAlsfan5 3 months ago
I am so thankful for the power the union movement had in Australia. Workers are so much better off than other developed countries aka America. And we have a better welfare and health system too. :)
silversong1991 3 months ago 3
How about a shareholders union?
runddle 3 months ago
There must be more unions in the world. Mgmt cares nothing about it's workers but the bottom line and what's good for the shareholders. Unions are for dignity, respect and rights for the worker. A fair wage and benefits to raise a family. That is all a worker wants. One may think a union worker makes alot of money? Take a look at the mgmt salary? Usually double for doing nothing!
etesta63 3 months ago 2
All additional costs to the company = wages go down.
SkepticThink 3 months ago
@nannyberries... The problem with you is you can't search through the bull. I used your search and see you are a puppet because if you did a thorough search of your recommended search... you would see that those sights are corporate owned.
Your search on "History of Labor Unions" leads you to another conservative writer. When are you going to get a brain?!? Are you that gulible?
As for Dues... again... it makes a small dent compared to multi-national corporation's wealth.
amnman 3 months ago
@nannyberries... your response is WRONG!! Unions are organizations that are created by workers for workers. The money you claim in dues is pitance to the company's $100 million or billions.
Top union bosses (who were democratically elect by union members) make $400K? What are you smoking? If they were making that amount of money, it was because their members said they can. Get off the Faux News because its rotting your brain.
You need to stop being a puppet to multinational corporations.
amnman 4 months ago
@amnman Every due adds up to be that large sum of money. You do get benefits from the unions, but that is because you work for them as well as the companies.
As far as union bosses salary, just do a search with this (union bosses salary) Then tell me I am wrong. Also search for this (UNION BOSS TRUMKA ADMITS MAIN GOAL IS USING UNIONS TO FUNDAMENTALLY CHANGE AMERICA INTO HIS PROGRESSIVE VISION…NOT NEGOTIATE MEMBER SALARIES)
nannyberries 3 months ago
@amnman Why would you think I am smoking anything? So the members vote on their salary as well. Also check this out (FactSheets/CardCheckFactSheet) I do not get my information only from Fox news. I am nobodies puppet. I search and read both sides and form my own opinion. Here is another (A History of Labor Unions from Colonial Times to 2009
Mises Daily: Friday, July 17, 2009 by Morgan Reynolds)
nannyberries 3 months ago
Unions is nothing else than monopoly on labour side. ANY kind of monopoly sucks! They prevent newcomers to.... come.
Bartolomeus002 4 months ago
@Bartolomeus002 What country are you from exactly?
eatbeavers 4 months ago
@eatbeavers Poland. Why?
Bartolomeus002 4 months ago
@Bartolomeus002 You seem to repeat the boardroom lingo well, private media is just a corporate mouthpiece. State media is state mouthpiece. Be careful of that especially if you're a worker, you need to know who really represents your true interests.
kaushiksays 4 months ago
@Bartolomeus002 Just asking.
eatbeavers 4 months ago
@Bartolomeus002 And what do you suppose corporations are?
rmbl2001 4 months ago
@rmbl2001 Corporations compete with each other so they are not always a monopoly. Unions are.
Bartolomeus002 4 months ago
Unions are for Lame Socialists who are too lazy and stupid to band together and form Worker Cooperatives so they beg like dogs on the leesh of the government who cut their balls off.
Laughingblades 4 months ago
@Shargrailar... I don't know what world you live in but labor laws have been reduced since unions have been reduced... 1950s... workers in unions was over 30%... now is less than 15%. Last 10 years, labor related laws were either weakened or removed. Look how long minimum wage took to be updated... and even then...it wasn't enough. Unions are needed in this country and needed bad.
amnman 4 months ago
@nannyberries... unions are NOT a business! It is an organization of employees that are tired being abused by employer that don't operate fairly. Quit spouting lies!
amnman 4 months ago 3
@amnman read my response to eatbeavers. Unions collect $1 million a year in dues and top bosses make up to $400,000 a year. Not bad for not being a business. Union member benefits through the afl-cio, union plus, cellular service, scholarships, and more. Only available for members. Also sounds like a business. No?
nannyberries 4 months ago
@nannyberries . Don't forget that pension plan and 401k. Plus a decent wage for a fair days work. Sounds great!
rmbl2001 4 months ago
@rmbl2001 Pension plans were not a result of the unions. 1875 was the first privet pension plan, established by the American Express Company. Search for history of pension plans. 401k also was not the result of the unions.
nannyberries 4 months ago
What have unions done that wasn't meant to only benefit the union its self? The union is a business and is only concerned about its own profit.
nannyberries 4 months ago
@nannyberries PROVE that please PROVE that.
eatbeavers 4 months ago
@eatbeavers Well the first part is a question. If you come up with an answer I will try and show my reason why I would disagree whit it.
This next part is to show why I believe my second sentence to be true. Look up the word business in any dictionary. Also look up corporation in any dictionary. By those definitions alone, show that unions fit into both categories. Unions sell labor (product) To benefit shareholders (workers) Reading aflcio.org site shows it to be a business.
nannyberries 4 months ago
@nannyberries I don't know what planet you are from but.... My union is a non-profit. I recieve a good pension and have accumulated quite a nice 401 for my 33 years of service. The companies I worked for were highly successful in spite of paying a fair wage. Go figure....
rmbl2001 4 months ago
@rmbl2001 Your union collects no union dues?
nannyberries 4 months ago
@rmbl2001 Even non union companies have people that can boast this also. It is not unique to unions.
nannyberries 4 months ago
Just ask the unions what they did with the automobile industry.
Unions were an important in the 1860's but in modern times labor laws have caught up with the all the cracks workers fell in. Now its just another layer of ticks milking the workers.
Shargrailar 4 months ago
the republicans and corporate lobbyists have successfully pitted the poor against the poor, conservatives are polarized on this issue and republican voters (which are mainly poor and working class) always side with privatization and claim that union workers have got it made, union pay rates and pensions are pennies compared to what really needs to be cut, if you have shitty pay and a crappy pension maybe its time you created a union. unions have given everyone minimum wage, benifits, etc
metalgear767 4 months ago 6
@metalgear767 Amen ! The corporate propaganda machine has been convincing workers to vote against their own interests for decades and people wonder why they can't get ahead. Maybe people are starting to wake up.
lunhil12 4 months ago
I don't like unions but this is funny
Madfoot713 4 months ago
@Madfoot713 why?
AshtrayanConvict 4 months ago
@AshtrayanConvict Because I thought it was funny
Madfoot713 4 months ago
Unions are only good unless they use the government to achieve their ends.
DoctorCapitalist 4 months ago
@DoctorCapitalist If government is the means by which labour must achieve some degree of dignity and worker safety, sign me up for some government.
nocturnezero 4 months ago
@nocturnezero Hooray for violence!
DoctorCapitalist 4 months ago
@DoctorCapitalist The threat of violence against the opulent used to save the working class is favorable to the threat of death against the working class to save the opulent.
nocturnezero 4 months ago
@nocturnezero ughh....
DoctorCapitalist 4 months ago
@nocturnezero So you support people being raped and stabbed in prison for not "cooperating" with the "proletariat"?
DoctorCapitalist 4 months ago
@DoctorCapitalist Proletariat? The fuck are you talking about? Cooperating? No, I don't *support* prison or any punishment at all for tax evaders, I don't see a problem with it, but I'd rather that regime exist than the regime of no government to protect the gains the labor movement has made in the past hundred years, because I think the latter is less desirable for a lot more people.
nocturnezero 4 months ago
@nocturnezero If you want to make a change, do it through peaceful voluntary means. If workers want to make the workplace safer, they do so by going on strike or by getting people to boycott them. This will make business owners lose profits and improve the work conditions. You DO NOT use the initiation of violence to get your way.
DoctorCapitalist 4 months ago
@DoctorCapitalist Law isn't violence, it's the threat thereof.
nocturnezero 4 months ago
@DoctorCapitalist Law is the threat of violence for people who violate it not unlike property ownership is the threat of violence for people who violate rules on that property.
nocturnezero 4 months ago
@nocturnezero Property rights apply to the human body. If someone does something with my body against my will they have violated my property rights and my "violence" would be self defense. The state does not own property legitimately.
DoctorCapitalist 4 months ago
@DoctorCapitalist Your right over your body is the right to self-ownership. Self-ownership does not extend to the right of increase over land or capital you own. Nobody owns property legitimately.
nocturnezero 4 months ago
@nocturnezero Property rights come from the fact that we own the effects of our actions. If the social "contract" which is used to justify the state is legitimate and objective, then surely I can enforce my own social contract on everyone. After all it is objective and absolute, right? Also if someone steals something from me, they have enslaved me for the amount of time I put into gaining that item.
DoctorCapitalist 4 months ago
@nocturnezero For example, if I spend 5 hours working to get enough money to buy a television and someone steals the television from me, they have enslaved me for 5 hours, they have stolen my time and labour.
DoctorCapitalist 4 months ago
@DoctorCapitalist stupid arguement
AshtrayanConvict 4 months ago
@DoctorCapitalist This argument's been had for five-hundred years, we should probably stop. It's not going to go anywhere.
nocturnezero 4 months ago
@DoctorCapitalist There are better alternatives, obviously, but right now I'm only handling the options of government enforcing labor standards, or labor standards being left entirely to market forces.
nocturnezero 4 months ago
@nocturnezero Oh, and there's no historical evidence that shows that millions of people will die without government intervention in the economy. There is plenty of historical evidence that shows that millions of people have died at the result of statism and violence.
DoctorCapitalist 4 months ago
Hitler was a Freemason or other faction of the church & Endorsed by the Pope .
Its all the same art & symbols & also there is other connections documented !
Where do Unions fall on the FEEMASON SOCIAL PYRAMID ?
Every USA PRESIDENT IS A FREEMASON -1 In History .
The Canadian Leader is also One I believe.
The POLICE ETC...Its on there badges & Emblems ,even in writing.
Where do you fall into the FREEMASONS STATUS PYRAMID...?
google image it?
canadastreetmedia 4 months ago
What have CORPORATIONS ever done FOR us??
We know what they have done TO us!
cheeriosinabowl 5 months ago
@cheeriosinabowl Jobs and consumer goods?
nannyberries 5 months ago
@nannyberries
... rolling my eyes....
cheeriosinabowl 5 months ago
collective work has its benefits, granted. however unions crush an individuals creativity, spontaneity and discernment. communities with strong union presence typically are self existence focused and are really not about others.
emigrantgap 5 months ago 2
God bless the unions of the USA. God bless America and buy American when possible.
spearonez 5 months ago
Unions are greedy old men who are after any chance they can get to bunk off
ukipwarrior 5 months ago
Unions are not out to help corporations, nor are corporations out to help workers. Its the free market. People buying labour want to pay as little as possible (just like people buying any good) and people supplying labour want to get as much as possible for the good they are selling.
This means banding together to control a larger portion of the supply, just as commodity sellers do to increase their market share.
Treating unions as some magic "third entity" is faulty logic.
LiberInterdico 5 months ago 11
@LiberInterdico No, Unions allow workers to negotiate a greater share of the fruits of their labours. we could always put the means of productiuon into the ownership of the workers and then we wouldn't need unions. What do you think, comrade?
Milomix 3 months ago
@Milomix
Step back a second and think about what you just said. "Negotiate a greater share", aka "More money". That is fine, this is capitalism. Capital owners incorporate into corporations to better negotiate a greater share of the wealth generated from the use of their private property. There is nothing stopping people from making their own business where they are both the owner and the worker, every small business (just about) starts that way.
LiberInterdico 3 months ago
@LiberInterdico We can't really expect everyone to start small businessees, can we? It would not meet the needs of the population or eceonomy. We could, however, give the means of production (including 'private property') back to the workers and every gets an even share. And free healthcare. And education. And a place to live. It would eradicate noth poverty and unemployment.
Milomix 3 months ago
@Milomix 1.) Yes we can, its pretty easy to be a contractor. 2.) If you let "the government" take people's private property to give to others it will not go to "the average joe", it will be taken from the "average joe" to give to the wealthy. There is also no such thing as "free" someone pays for everything. So who is forced to work in the mines or as a septic worker while someone has a desk job for the same pay? How can you have an even share with uneven work?
LiberInterdico 3 months ago
FUCK THE UNIONS FOR THE EXCESSIVE OHS BULLSHIT
Soundgarden8497 6 months ago
my union sucks. we have no say in any negotiations.
slssk79 7 months ago
@1skeptic1, please take the keyboard your using and insert it in your ass..
jtp0711 7 months ago
yay! i have the smallest comment!
araque202 7 months ago 10
@1Skeptik and I can tell you horror stories of what happens when there are no unions involved in the workplace. ...Unions are an important balance to corporate power over workers, it is when that balance is lost that problems happen..
McBunny71 7 months ago
@McBunny71 Unfortunately the unions are the biggest bullies on the playground and they are all gov sponsored. The balance you speak of was lost decades ago.
simspawn 7 months ago 2
@simspawn I am sorry you feel that way Simspawn - I notice that you live in the US, I live in Australia where this ad was created - things may be different here from what you have experienced. And working in the public service here I can tell you they are NOT government sponsored....far from it.
McBunny71 7 months ago
"Unions frequently add undue cost to doing business" workers rights are under attack and all you can think of are the poor defenseless corperations....ok mr bourgeoise enjoy the right to hold stupid opinions while you can cause fascism isnt coming, its here and im sorry if you dont have the heart to stand up for yourself and other working people. i feel sorry for ignoramuses like you. the Union makes us strong. Solidarity Forever.
autonomia386 7 months ago
@autonomia386 The business man is not your enemy. I was a UAW member, later a supervisor and manufacturing engineer, 13 yrs. UAW environement. I managed small business, started a "successful" from scratch business, semi retired at 53. Fact is I am not anti union, I am anti stupidity. My first comment stands - The stupidity of the LOCAL cost me and a few thousand more good people good jobs. Feel free to assert I know nothing of business and uinon mentality. One of us a bit myopic. Regards
1Skeptik1 7 months ago
@autonomia386 You're blind. The unions are fascism.
simspawn 7 months ago
@simspawn Listen mr Blackshirt, i think you need to ease off that faux news. Facism is "socialism" Capitalism is "democracy" and Wars are "humanitarian interventions" . Unions protect workers from unfair practices that result from the greed of the capitalists. Go read a book you facist ignoramous. Stop letting Tv news people tell you what to think
autonomia386 7 months ago
@autonomia386 I don't watch tv~ Unions haven't been needed to protect people from unfair practices for decades, and who protects workers from the unions unfair practices? Do you honestly believe any group with that much power isn't abusing it in some way? Capitalist greed, you spout ignorance in every comment you make~
simspawn 7 months ago
@simspawn Unions haven't been needed to protect people for decades? hmm... please type in "Sullenberger Congress" and do a you tube search. If Pilots could form a Union, they wouldn't be paid less than Taxi Drivers.
MrSupertwo 6 months ago
@MrSupertwo As moving as that was I stand by my point. If airlines are willing to sacrifice safety to protect their bottom line, that's their choice. If they don't feel they are being fairly paid that's the choice they should make. I don't agree with the practice, but PAY rates are not rights.. If you don't wanna do the job for the pay don't do it. Driving a taxi may not be as difficult, but it is a more consistently used service would surprise me taxi drivers make better money than pilots.
simspawn 6 months ago
@simspawn But, Freedom to organize is a RIGHT! And, my point is still the same. Unions are still needed in this day and age. And, it's needed for the very simple reason that Employers will still try to exploit the worker in every which way possible. Sorry, that sounds very Marxist, but, it's the truth. Pay Rates are not Rights. Organization is a Right!
MrSupertwo 6 months ago 3
@autonomia386
The nickname for Fascists is Brownshirts, not Blackshirts. ^__^
SocialistCatgirl 7 months ago
@autonomia386
I came to a realization shortly after I posted: the Italian Fascists were called Blackshirts. Sorry!
[Hits self in head]
SocialistCatgirl 7 months ago
Unions frequently add undue cost to doing business. Example: It took 4 tradesmen 4 hrs. to run a phone line into an office where I worked, (I could have done it in 1 hr.) Example 2 : A friend worked for Peterbuilt, employeees were very well compensated. Contract time - Company made last and best offer, union said no way. The gates were locked, employees shocked in disbelief, plant moved - game over. I could fill pages of horror stories. Regards
1Skeptik1 7 months ago
I have nothing against unions. But their should be no government regulation forcing employers to work with unions (employers should be allowed to fire the entire group if they wish). And no member of the work force should be required to join a union to keep their job if a union is elected in to the company.
Both violate individual freedom which I believe is unethical.
CHeers.
daobagua 7 months ago
WHAT HAVE THE ROMANS EVER DONE FOR US?
ZeppelinxOfxLed 7 months ago 14
@ZeppelinxOfxLed they invented central heating systems
Shargrailar 4 months ago
if you did your own thing good for you. My union has worked too get a real a pay rise and 26 weeks paid maternity leave. Unions are made of free thinking people I
unionposter 7 months ago
@unionposter If it were only so simple. I'll cut to the heart of the matter. The leadership in the union I was a member of was not smart enough to understand the company had to make a profit and generate a return for the share holders. Free thinkiing? General membership meetings were usually held on Sunday afternoons when contracts were voted on. You could bet about 1/4 of them were dunk by then, it was quite a specticle. As I said, 10,000 good jobs gone, will never return. Regards
1Skeptik1 7 months ago
They just described things that are bad for workers.
adulby 7 months ago
Union cost my home town about 10,000 good jobs, one was mine.
1Skeptik1 8 months ago
@1Skeptik1 It's your fault you weren't hirable.
N33DL3R 8 months ago
@N33DL3R To funny! With no union, I started my own business, made more money in much less time with far fewer headaches, sold and moved to FL. at 53. Start a business, you will get an education very quickly. Regards
1Skeptik1 8 months ago
@1Skeptik1
... not everyone is cut out to start and run their own business. Not to mention the very high failure rate of privately owned/run businesses.
cheeriosinabowl 8 months ago
@cheeriosinabowl I agree 100%! My point: managing or owning a business tends to broaden ones perspective. Most definately, it is not for everyone. Regards
1Skeptik1 8 months ago
@1Skeptik1 The union isn't the executive. It is the members as a collective You and your co-workers. Where were you when decisions were being voted on? You are a member and have a right to have your say and cast your vote.
0ldtimeh0ckey 7 months ago
@0ldtimeh0ckey Hind sight is 20/20. Fact is, UNIONS had their day, over played their hand and hurt many good people, all history now. We have a bigger problem and that is inside the Beltway. Policy in this country is for sale an that directly impacts our standard of living. Consider: TV's to toasters, no longer made here and can't be for profit with the Dollar buying what it does abroad. No factory, no jobs,no union. (I was a manufacturng engineer long ago) Both parties sold us out!
1Skeptik1 7 months ago
@1Skeptik1 Do you want to work for what people in China or the other SE Asian countries that our consumer goods are made in? Throw in with that their lack of environmental standards, human rights or employment standards? Where your 10 and 12 yearold child is put to work for less pay than the adults and never gets an education?
Corporations have gone off shore for a way bigger list of reasons than just pay in North America.
0ldtimeh0ckey 7 months ago
@0ldtimeh0ckey Corp off shore? Yes, I said as much, largely due to exchange rates set behind closed doors (policy). Consider: Wal MART sells new 17 speed bikes for $88, shipped from Asia 10,000 miles away, pays an employe to assemble and makes a profit. I CAN NOT open a modern bicycle factory here to manufacture bicycles and ship accross the street for that same $88, only a fool would try. No factory=no jobs=no union. We are still loosing jobs my friend, union or not. Regards
1Skeptik1 7 months ago
@1Skeptik1 I agree. We are losing jobs union or not. Which is why I don't understand people who are blaming the union for it.
Even under our current employment standards legislation our min. wage can't compete with child slave labour.
Company goes off shore, wages at home drop, we demand cheaper goods, greater exploitation of labour elsewhere happens and the spiral to the bottom gets tighter and faster.
0ldtimeh0ckey 7 months ago
Private sector workers should form a general union. Maybe then minimum wage could be raised to a basic living wage instead of a paycheck that sends it's recipient to a food bank for food and a charity shop for clothes.
Jtowngalawayfromhome 8 months ago
@porkfwrywry - Good question. But isnt this one for the Corporations to answer ? In fact, why limit it to this - increase the taxation rates for the upper-class as well ? Your Govt. might gain some ground on the budget-deficit. But No !! Americans are too cowardly to ask this to Corporations or the rich !! They find Unions an easy target - because Unions work for them after all !!
spjose161 8 months ago
@spjose161 People just dont understand that Unions are not needed... there are laws all over to protect workers.. nowadays public workers get more benefits than the private. Do i need to remind you that Government doesnt produce capital.. Where is this coming from.... the People... therefore the people suffer when big unions ask for benefits that the private industry could not even imagine to provide. Just look at the recession for public workers. Doesnt even touch the private sector.
brixcity17 8 months ago
@brixcity17 - Having a Union is one of those laws that are there to protect workers. Ever wondered why ?
The Government whatever it gets from people - spends it on people. Then what are you complaining about ?
The pvt, industry used to provide better benefits than the Govt. Did you realise when its benefits sunk even below the levels of the Govt ? And now you're basically complaining that the pvt sector has sunk so low and there is nothing you can do about it. Why? Cos you dont have any Unions !
spjose161 8 months ago
Whats wrong with addressing the most glareing problems on both sides of the issue? Example; union worker who is caught stealing and keeps job or on the other side a manager who hands out the bad jobs to people he doesn't like. Why can't we sit down and work these things out? I bet it would be more productive than calling each other nasty names and throwing insults to people you don't know.
SPAD58 8 months ago
Without the unions, the middle class probably would never have existed. We would have been exploited mercilessly by greedy corporations, and paid a pittance.
Not all of us can be professionals earning 6 digit incomes, but at the same time, we just ask for a fair wage for a reasonable lifestyle.
cheeriosinabowl 8 months ago
@cheeriosinabowl Disagree - When does the "UNION" have enough? NEVER Ask me, been there done that. (UAW at GM topped out over $79 per hr, counting fringe, few professionals earn that) Regards
1Skeptik1 8 months ago
@1Skeptik1
... over $79 / hour ??? I find that hard to believe. I am a unionized worker and earn NOTHING remotely close to that amount. When does the UNION have enough? Let me ask you, when does anyone anywhere have enough ??? That goes for unions, management, all professionals, workers, everybody. Greed abounds !! All I ask for is a fair, liveable wage so I can live like a human, instead of a pauper. Unions are not perfect, I know that.
cheeriosinabowl 8 months ago
@cheeriosinabowl The self employed earn exactly what they are worth. The $79 hr. figure
is accurate. There was an adversarial relationship at my factory, made no difference
employees were very well compensated. A lot of good people lost good jobs, those jobs still exist
but not in my home town, thanks to some very foolish (stupid) union leadership. Regards
1Skeptik1 8 months ago
The unions are responsible for diving countless jobs overseas.
GreenChurchReject 8 months ago
@GreenChurchReject BULLSHIT!!
MrAlsfan5 8 months ago
The union labor I have been FORCED to hire in the past really wasn't worth more than $2/hr to be honest, so you are right, that is how capitalism works. They are a lazy, overpaid, bunch of buffoons. Kinda like tenured teachers, but don't get me started on that. I worked hard in school, spent years in college, and barely come close to the idiots that make $30, 40, $50/hr to "set it and forget it" a thousand times a day on assembly lines, and a monkey could probably do it twice as often....hmm.
kidcartune 8 months ago
@ars62287 - The funny thing about capitalism is - as it has done in the past - it doesnt stop at $16. It will drive your wages down to that of $2/hr in China or $1 in India. In fact, why give you a wage at all - I'll give you decent food and stay. That is what uncontrolled capitalism degenerates into as history shows. Every salary is after all a loss to the employer. As in Taoism, for everything there needs to be a balance - a yin for a yang. And unions are your balance. Any better ideas ?
spjose161 8 months ago
The union movement should be thanked for the current woking conditions enjoyed by all workers. So why do so many workers resent the current union movements?
SPAD58 9 months ago
@SPAD58 because the right is VERY good at the message war. they have even turned the word "liberal" into a bad word and i have to be careful about who i tell that i'm a socialist. it's pretty fucking ridiculous.
GermAmp55 8 months ago
@GermAmp55 Interesting because I have seen the same thing only I have to be careful who I tell I'm a fiscal conservative. It is ridiculous, I'll bet the real answer is somewhere in the center. We can have a rich society that offers total freedom and opportunity and at the same time takes care of the less gifted.
SPAD58 8 months ago
@GermAmp55 Interesting because I have seen the same thing only I have to be careful who I tell I'm a fiscal conservative. It is ridiculous, I'll bet the real answer is somewhere in the center. We can have a rich society that offers total freedom and opportunity and at the same time takes care of the less gifted. I don't equate socialism with liberalism. Socialism has good ideas but if allowed to expand unchecked can lead to a form of "economic slavery" someone has to work and pay.
SPAD58 8 months ago
@ars62287 - That is what everyone and all the private sector ppl SHOULD have been getting as well !!
Let me ask you a simple question - why dont the private sector employees try to raise their benefits to that level - and that is when you would realise what an arse you have been made by big corporations !!
spjose161 9 months ago 2
@spjose161 Good simple question, heres the simple answer; some do. Like the UAW, they lobbied and got in bed with corrupt officials and destroyed our domestic auto industry. Why the fuck should anyone get payed $65/hr to be on an assembly line, sure we can argue power to the people, but guys, it doesnt work, it breaks up, $16/hr is fine for unskilled labor, get over your greed, or get a different job or make your OWN!... its America after all
ars62287 8 months ago
Screw it, let’s talk pensions. They get 80% salary plus 3% cost of living increase each year. So that stationary fireman (doesn’t require GED, HS Diploma , or tech degree) retires at 50 (25 & out) making $109,429.53, considering the 14% raise, he will be collecting $242,240.14/yr at 80, which comes to $4,990,253.85, all tax $, all for nothing. These greedy pigs cause layoffs for the REAL over-taxed, lower paid, more common non-Government American worker.
ars62287 9 months ago
@ars62287 That's fucking better then lottery winners have it! Fuck AFSCME!
ars62287 9 months ago
@ars62287
You're calling firefighters greedy lazy pigs? Men and women who put their lives on the line? Who have some of the highest cancer rates? Who didn't hesitate to run into the burning World Trade Centre and died in the hundreds? You call them lazy pigs? You POS. Shame on you! And by the way, your numbers are nonsense.
candlefish99 8 months ago
@candlefish99 My numbers are nonsense? You can look them up right now, its public online, really look it up! I worked in a Gov union, it was garbage, and I’m currently a volunteer non-union firefighter, so suck my dick with your bullshit example. You should be ashamed of yourself for repeating un-researched crap, drown in truth. Just because unions represent laziness and shame doesn’t mean everyone in them is the same, it’s called closed shop, try to read its definition before you respond.
ars62287 8 months ago
United we bargain, divided we beg. Unions are necessary today more than ever. Every major corporation is looking to cut costs by paying people as little as possible so they can keep as much as possible in profit. What they do not seem to understand is this: if we have no money to spend, how are we supposed to buy their product? Thus the problem exists. People need a mechanism to stand up and defend themselves. A union is that mechanism. It is many acting as one. That is what a union is, one.
ColdFusionMk1 9 months ago
@ColdFusionMk1
... you make good points. Unions are not perfect, but without them, we workers would have been in the poor house from the get-go. Corporations are just cold blooded moneywhores.
cheeriosinabowl 8 months ago
That’s all good and well, to some extent. The issue facing America today is out-of-control public-sector (Government) unions. They divert tens of millions of $ yearly to corrupt officials to help to further the already outlandish gap between their wealth and that of the private sector American worker. Resulting in further lay-offs of the common, lower paid/over-taxed American.
ars62287 9 months ago
@ars62287 Unions cannot directly finance a political campaign in the USA. It is illegal. The same goes for Corporations. Regardless, even if they were allowed, they would be limited to $2,500 annually per political campaign. Unions can set up PAC's, but those are solely voluntary contribution based (member voluntarily agrees to contribute an amount outside dues money). No union can use dues money for political purposes in the USA. Period. Please remember that.
ColdFusionMk1 9 months ago 2
@ColdFusionMk1 AFSCME was No.1 Spender in the 2010 elections, contributing around $91 million to Democratic Party members campaigns, while it is illegal to use dues directly (and I'm sure these always honest union bosses adhere to these laws), members use their insanely high wages that are given them by these corrupt officials, it's a vicious cycle that robs the vast majority of American workers who are not employed by the Government. That's how janitors end up making over $100k yearly, greed.
ars62287 9 months ago
@ars62287 Most government workers make around $30K - $50K a year. I fail to see how they are overpaid. I do know and understand that the AFSCME was the largest INDEPENDENT contributor to campaigns. I believe that most government workers simply want to keep their jobs and their relatively fair rate of pay and health insurance. As you well know, unions are made up of members. Those members elect and appoint the leadership from within their ranks. That "union boss" probably used to be a janitor.
ColdFusionMk1 9 months ago
@ColdFusionMk1 Janitor for Secretary of State: $96,153.25
Stationary Fireman for Dept of Corrections: $109,429.53
Barber for the Dept of Corrections: $88,475.47
Beautician (for real) for the Dept of Corrections: $75,563.32
Painter for the Dept of Corrections: $92,832.48
Laborer for the Dept of Transportation: $86,887.86
These are real IL 2010 earnings, look it up, it's all public. And these crooks just got a 14% raise as our income tax increased 50% and dont get me started on their pensions
ars62287 9 months ago
@ars62287 The only job who's pay I personally disagree with is the Janitor for the SoS. A Laborer for the DoT should be paid well, due to the hazardous environment and potentially inclimate weather conditions that they may encounter. Anything in the DoC should be paid well because of the potential for bodily harm and/or death as a result of the inmates they may deal with. I personally believe that if a person works a job, they deserve a pension at the end of it for their many years of service.
ColdFusionMk1 8 months ago
Comment removed
ColdFusionMk1 8 months ago
@ars62287 Also, if you do not feel that the unions are being honest, you can look up their financial records since they have to be submitted to the Government. Look up the LM-2 records if you want. It is all public information.
ColdFusionMk1 9 months ago
@ColdFusionMk1 uhhhhh.... no.... If everyone could only put in 2,500 dollars then how would the rich influence politics. PAC's can pump in as much money as they want into politicians... Learned that at a community college in Springfield Missouri. Back to my point. There are not enough rich to pump in millions of dollars if they could only put in 2,500 dollars. Your numbers do not add up. PAC's have more power than you must have been told.
brixcity17 8 months ago
@brixcity17 PAC's can do that, individuals cannot. Rich people form PAC's and fund them. This is how rich people influence elections in their favor.
Please reference: fec.gov
ColdFusionMk1 8 months ago
@brixcity17 fec.gov/pages/brochures/contrib.shtml
ColdFusionMk1 8 months ago
@ColdFusionMk1 Where doe's the Citizens United thing fit in with all of this?
cisseshairdresser 8 months ago
@ColdFusionMk1 The fuckin retarded Supreme court ruled corporations are people so they can directly contribute. Corporation can't even go to jail its fucking insane
gallonofpcp 8 months ago
@ColdFusionMk1 That's just not true! They can't use union dues to give directly to individual politicians campaigns, but they can use them for advertising and donating to PACs and political parties. Thanks to a 2010 Supreme Court decision Unions and Businesses alike can spend tens of millions of dollars to effect elections. How else could Unions spend 74.5 million in 2008, with 68.3 million going to Democrats? Unions do use dues for political purposes, in addition voluntary funds! Know the truth
ToSaveANationDotCom 8 months ago
That's it. I just cancelled my Union membership and benefits. I'm going to bargain with my employer (A fortune 500 company) all by lonesome. I'll let you know how it goes!
teapartyxpress 9 months ago
Unions of workers will always exist whilst there are as many greedy & unscrupulous employers as there are still today. I will gladly say Unions aren't necessary when that situation is no longer a reality. And pigs might fly.
gnads1 9 months ago
@gnads1 You are so right. The greed of big business today is the worst since the pre-union days. The unions will certainly make a big comeback because most non-union jobs today are minimum wage, part time and no benefits. And to make sure that they make even more obscene profits, companies are moving to Korea, China and Mexico where there are no labour laws and the wages are a couple of bucks an hour.
MrAlsfan5 9 months ago
No Union or Union rep wants to see a business close/ go broke. It's just foolish to even suggest it. That would result in loss of jobs thence members & then finances. So blaming Unions for closing business total bullshit. Workers want a fair days pay for a fair days work so they can afford good health cover & they want security of employment ,a safe workplace with reasonable conditions & pension benefits (we call it superannuation) so they to can retire comfortably not just the elitists.
gnads1 9 months ago
To engineerdoctor & all the other "workers Unions" bashers it's obvious you are just some capitalist puppets with your head firmly wedged in your anal orifices. You morons can't see the woods for the trees. Forget organised crime the biggest militant & closed shop Unions in your country & mine are Unions of Employers. And it's those Unions of Employers that have put us in the current economic downturn (GFC) Through sheer greed,lies & deception.
gnads1 9 months ago
Great video
billy51020 9 months ago
This is just like the life of Brian scene talking about the Romans
Madeupanameforutube0 9 months ago
Aw, this was just the sweetest, heart-felt propaganda. Collective bargaining is for pussies. I'll bet not a damn one of you union assholes wants to run a company with union workers. Then you'd be forced by our country's ridiculous laws to not only give a slacker more & more dough, you'd never be able to fire his ass, either.
nachodaddy 9 months ago
@nachodaddy Unionized workers cannot strike for economic reasons therefore "giving a slacker more and more" is false. If unions struck over money the union employees can and will be fired with NO protection from the union OR the government. Also, yes, you can be fired if you're a union member. My company is union and we fire guys regularly because they don't follow company protocol. When these employees refuse to work by company standards the union backs the companies decision to terminate them.
ShaneMSnyder 9 months ago
for all those people that think we union workers are not educated think again. I have many co workers with higher educations then the salary workers at my plant in iowa. Without unions the companies would exploit us people for everything that is possible.
icwatson 9 months ago
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@icwatson I helped build the Trump Tower a couple years ago as an iron worker in Chicago and let me tell you, union workers are not smart, but they are very witty lol. But anyways, I don't want to start name calling unlike other people commenting on here. But, if you were going to open up a factory and had the choice between one state where regulation and taxes are low, and another state where regulation and taxes were high. Which would you choose to open your job creating factory?
tennisIS4pussys 9 months ago
Today's Unions are corrpupted and greedy! Many unoin workers do not have the right to demand igher wages with out having a college degree! Due to not having a college degree, I now have to accept minimum wage and the union workers can keep making way too much money, more than they are worth! That is why many companies are going to China, because of the union workers!
patsaxon 9 months ago
@patsaxon What a load of bullshit. Companies are being set up in China, Korea and Mexico so that the poor workers there can be exploited. They are paid low wages, have no benefits, and there are very few regulations governing how they are treated. When these companies can get away with this, they enjoy profits that are obscene. They keep the price of what is manufactured there the same as when it was made in Canada and/or the States.
MrAlsfan5 9 months ago
@MrAlsfan5
That can only be sustained for so long, Union movements will form and stop it, strikes are already becoming more frequent in China
eaterHP 9 months ago
@eaterHP You sure are right there. Also unions will become more important here too as workers struggle to make ends meet. C'mon unions! Let's end the greed of the facist owners.
MrAlsfan5 9 months ago
@patsaxon - Many people CANNOT afford to go to college. This does not make them any less worthy of a decent salary and benefits. Everyone has a right to be able to support themselves and their families, and this is virtually impossible on minimum wage. Thank God for unions!
laceyemily1 9 months ago
@laceyemily1
work harder. stop spending money on unions that dont help you.....
00Billy 9 months ago
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@laceyemily1 That's bull shit. Ever heard of financial aid, scholarships, and student loans? My mother wasn't able to pay for an MIT education for me, but I still graduated from there in three years. And the ability to support your family isn't a right. if you were going to open up a factory and had the choice between one state where regulation and taxes are low, and another state where regulation and taxes were high. Which would you choose to open your job creating factory?
tennisIS4pussys 9 months ago
@patsaxon You are totally right. The reason why globalization began was because labor here became way to expensive. Why would someone open a factory in America where they will be forced to pay the low skilled workers $50/hr and give them amazing benefits when they can find much cheaper labor in China?
tennisIS4pussys 9 months ago
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1XMarksSpot 9 months ago