We feel emotions because of consciousness.. that's what it is based on. Um wasn't there this lecture online about conscious thought emerging from these quantum tunneling matrices which are actually on the sides of neuron walls? But then I'm no scientist.
I fed a visual representation of the waveform of the audio into a program I wrote, and it spit out mouth shapes to approximate how it may look.
Literally no effort animating, it writes a bunch of images to numbered files, and I compile them :)
The method I used to come up with the mouth shapes is pretty simple, sharper waveforms seemed to be more often a sign of a lips tighter mouth, and rounded waveforms the opposite :)
@5amGordon It's all a matter of perspective. I think we could be called that, though I won't since people have a reflexive negative reaction to the approximate truth of determinism. :|
Its hard to talk about shit like this without including the free will vs determinism subject. Although, it seems to me that humans, (in a cosmic sense) can be easily defined as robots, or machines.
I think in some cases, that thinking about humans as extremely delicate, and complex machines can help us.
Like for instance, in dealing with a criminal.
If we thought that the humans were 100% freewill, and chose every action intently. Then we would only punish people and not try and fix them.
If we thought that the humans were 100% automated, and chose only by what they were already guaranteed to choose. Then we wouldn't blame them, but instead see it as something we should repair.
Honestly, I wish more people were open to the idea that artificial life could have emotions. Honestly, I think this issues people have with this are, that they think emotions are somehow too complex for machines, and that they have some ego driven reflexive rejection, to anything that makes their mind seem simpler, or easier to understand. Basically the same reason most people don't like psychologists.
As soon as you can replicate the processes for emotion in some way, AI's would have emotions. The hard part is finding out exactly when they start having emotions and detecting that they are self aware.
That's like arguing against supercomputers being researched many years ago, by saying that you don't want your toasters electric bill to be hundreds of dollars
@ArtificialSouls Higher cognitive emotion involves the ability to reflect, not just react- to ruminate instead of run. This is closely tied to ethical behavior and self- awareness. Can machines possibly have these behaviors? But I'm not so sure I want AI patterned after human intelligence, although it's the only model we can point to with any surety. I've seen the intelligence on this planet, that's why I'm looking elsewhere ;-)
I agree, and yeah, so far we've made simple programs which using basic methods, can learn how to do a specific task...
Actually, we have programs which have learn how numbers look, and can actually imagine the number if you tell them to... it's really interesting, and is a beginning of the thought space of machines :)
@julsHz "I think the image of Hal is stuck in my head from the Introduction"
Well, honestly, Hal only had 2 motives, self preservation, just like any person, and to complete the mission. Imagine if someone was trying to "unplug" you, effectively destroying who you are. Would you try to stop them?
Hal may have been a bit crazy, but judging real future ai, by a fictional nutjob, would be like judging the entire human race, on a crazy person from fiction :P
I suppose if you gave machines emotion, you'd have to program them to have the ability to control their emotions as well, if a machine got angry it might be unable to become calm again.
One way is simple, that the machine would have "lobes" of it's brain, and it would need a regulatory lobe.
Also, we should study human brains for that specifically, since it's been found that, the human brain actually has an over stimulation defense build in for kids. This is designed to prevent something similar to what you mentioned.
@ArtificialSouls wow thats interesting, but I have no idea how I would do it. That does however tell me that I must've had a deficiency of some sort in my stimulation defenses because I had serious anger problems when I was younger, and I found it very difficult to calm down
@maggot432 Well, hormones I suppose can inhibit the control functions, to encourage people to do things like have sex. Also I suppose that hormones could also increase emotional activity.
Some of this is speculation, however emotions being used for back propagation, and inhibitory parts of the brain are based on things we know.
I kind of see some parallels between the whole god created us in his image thing and our development of ai. I suppose you don't like the term ai. yeah, its an interesting question. You could also ask if you copied a human brain and arranged all the atoms one by one, and it was an exact copy, would that be a human and should it have rights and such.
Something I think people don't recognize is, that a large portion of the negative behavior of humans comes from our evolutionary history. We're paranoid, and violent little creatures because throughout of of the history of brain development, those characteristics helped.
I see that ai could take many paths, but I just hope that we give it our more positive traits. :)
@TheVikingNinja just arranging everything to the last atom wouldn't make it work. The cells have to grow together, to learn to copy themselves, etc. What your implying is something like counterfeiting a human brain, and while it might looks functional its not genuine.
@KiwiPwnage "and while it might looks functional its not genuine."
A genuine what?
A genuine mind, a genuine human?
It certainly would be a mind... keep in mind, it would be a copied mind, so if a copy implies not having a mind, then I suspect you believe in the soul being not contained within the brain structure and chemistry.
@PinkProgram not only that, because that's just the reason for their action. But why do emotions exist? One common idea is, that emotions are a method for back propagation, which is required for a learning neural net. Though allot of neural net use some evolutionary form, back propagation of some kind is a powerful component in learning, and should definitely not be ignored.
We feel emotions because of consciousness.. that's what it is based on. Um wasn't there this lecture online about conscious thought emerging from these quantum tunneling matrices which are actually on the sides of neuron walls? But then I'm no scientist.
8DX 1 year ago
@8DX "consciousness"
Yes, emotions are a part of consciousness.
However it's like if I asked you where are the kids, and you answered "in the van", it means nothing if I don't know where the van is.
If I would direct you to any lecture, it would be this one...
watch?v=kOxqM21qBzw
ArtificialSouls 1 year ago
This all assumes that the only thing to a person is material...There's more to it than neurons.
doctorrin 1 year ago
@doctorrin This assumes nothing, it did not ignore the idea of soul.
Hell it was one of the first things I said.... 0:10
Pay attention, and don't just run your mind off of knee jerk reactions.
On a final note, I must ask, why do you think the human mind can't be contained in a physical form?
Before answering that question, I might advise you watch this :)
watch?v=kOxqM21qBzw
It's interesting, and thought provoking for most :D
Take care
ArtificialSouls 1 year ago
What did you animate this with? Flash?
NetCodeBlue 1 year ago
@NetCodeBlue nope... game maker.
I fed a visual representation of the waveform of the audio into a program I wrote, and it spit out mouth shapes to approximate how it may look.
Literally no effort animating, it writes a bunch of images to numbered files, and I compile them :)
The method I used to come up with the mouth shapes is pretty simple, sharper waveforms seemed to be more often a sign of a lips tighter mouth, and rounded waveforms the opposite :)
ArtificialSouls 1 year ago
So are humans robots, crafted from the evolutionary process?
5amGordon 1 year ago
@5amGordon It's all a matter of perspective. I think we could be called that, though I won't since people have a reflexive negative reaction to the approximate truth of determinism. :|
ArtificialSouls 1 year ago
@ArtificialSouls
Its hard to talk about shit like this without including the free will vs determinism subject. Although, it seems to me that humans, (in a cosmic sense) can be easily defined as robots, or machines.
5amGordon 1 year ago
@5amGordon
I think in some cases, that thinking about humans as extremely delicate, and complex machines can help us.
Like for instance, in dealing with a criminal.
If we thought that the humans were 100% freewill, and chose every action intently. Then we would only punish people and not try and fix them.
If we thought that the humans were 100% automated, and chose only by what they were already guaranteed to choose. Then we wouldn't blame them, but instead see it as something we should repair.
ArtificialSouls 1 year ago
Spirits changes my brain chemistry... distilled spirits that is!
that aside, if it can act like a duck, quack like a duck and function like a duck then it IS a duck, biggest obstacle is to accept it's... MY DUCK?
Paxmax 1 year ago
@Paxmax Well I agree...
Honestly, I wish more people were open to the idea that artificial life could have emotions. Honestly, I think this issues people have with this are, that they think emotions are somehow too complex for machines, and that they have some ego driven reflexive rejection, to anything that makes their mind seem simpler, or easier to understand. Basically the same reason most people don't like psychologists.
ArtificialSouls 1 year ago
As soon as you can replicate the processes for emotion in some way, AI's would have emotions. The hard part is finding out exactly when they start having emotions and detecting that they are self aware.
CollinMaessen 1 year ago
Machines with emotions is a horrible idea. I don't want my toaster having emotional breakdowns.
KiwiPwnage 1 year ago
@KiwiPwnage
That's like arguing against supercomputers being researched many years ago, by saying that you don't want your toasters electric bill to be hundreds of dollars
ArtificialSouls 1 year ago
OK, why do we want machines to have emotions again? I think the image of Hal is stuck in my head from the Introduction...
This is a very cool idea. I'll be interested to see who gets mad at the 'machine's' ideas first... 8-/
julsHz 1 year ago
@julsHz "OK, why do we want machines to have emotions again?"
First of all, movies aren't fact, but conjecture, except of course non-fictional movies.
Secondly, emotion is a cornerstone of learning, and to omit this is to basically put another nail in the coffin of learning machines.
ArtificialSouls 1 year ago
@ArtificialSouls Higher cognitive emotion involves the ability to reflect, not just react- to ruminate instead of run. This is closely tied to ethical behavior and self- awareness. Can machines possibly have these behaviors? But I'm not so sure I want AI patterned after human intelligence, although it's the only model we can point to with any surety. I've seen the intelligence on this planet, that's why I'm looking elsewhere ;-)
julsHz 1 year ago
@julsHz lol...
I agree, and yeah, so far we've made simple programs which using basic methods, can learn how to do a specific task...
Actually, we have programs which have learn how numbers look, and can actually imagine the number if you tell them to... it's really interesting, and is a beginning of the thought space of machines :)
watch?v=AyzOUbkUf3M
ArtificialSouls 1 year ago
@julsHz "I think the image of Hal is stuck in my head from the Introduction"
Well, honestly, Hal only had 2 motives, self preservation, just like any person, and to complete the mission. Imagine if someone was trying to "unplug" you, effectively destroying who you are. Would you try to stop them?
Hal may have been a bit crazy, but judging real future ai, by a fictional nutjob, would be like judging the entire human race, on a crazy person from fiction :P
ArtificialSouls 1 year ago
@ArtificialSouls Oh for gods sakes... it was meant to be a flippant comment. Please let go of it.
julsHz 1 year ago
@julsHz Sorry... I tend to be oblivious to the intent of comments, and take them WAY too literally :(
Thanks for the comment though :)
ArtificialSouls 1 year ago
I suppose if you gave machines emotion, you'd have to program them to have the ability to control their emotions as well, if a machine got angry it might be unable to become calm again.
maggot432 1 year ago
@maggot432 Do you know how we would do that?
One way is simple, that the machine would have "lobes" of it's brain, and it would need a regulatory lobe.
Also, we should study human brains for that specifically, since it's been found that, the human brain actually has an over stimulation defense build in for kids. This is designed to prevent something similar to what you mentioned.
ArtificialSouls 1 year ago
@ArtificialSouls wow thats interesting, but I have no idea how I would do it. That does however tell me that I must've had a deficiency of some sort in my stimulation defenses because I had serious anger problems when I was younger, and I found it very difficult to calm down
maggot432 1 year ago
@maggot432 Well, hormones I suppose can inhibit the control functions, to encourage people to do things like have sex. Also I suppose that hormones could also increase emotional activity.
Some of this is speculation, however emotions being used for back propagation, and inhibitory parts of the brain are based on things we know.
ArtificialSouls 1 year ago
I kind of see some parallels between the whole god created us in his image thing and our development of ai. I suppose you don't like the term ai. yeah, its an interesting question. You could also ask if you copied a human brain and arranged all the atoms one by one, and it was an exact copy, would that be a human and should it have rights and such.
TheVikingNinja 1 year ago
@TheVikingNinja Why wouldn't I like the term ai?
Something I think people don't recognize is, that a large portion of the negative behavior of humans comes from our evolutionary history. We're paranoid, and violent little creatures because throughout of of the history of brain development, those characteristics helped.
I see that ai could take many paths, but I just hope that we give it our more positive traits. :)
ArtificialSouls 1 year ago
@TheVikingNinja just arranging everything to the last atom wouldn't make it work. The cells have to grow together, to learn to copy themselves, etc. What your implying is something like counterfeiting a human brain, and while it might looks functional its not genuine.
KiwiPwnage 1 year ago
@KiwiPwnage "and while it might looks functional its not genuine."
A genuine what?
A genuine mind, a genuine human?
It certainly would be a mind... keep in mind, it would be a copied mind, so if a copy implies not having a mind, then I suspect you believe in the soul being not contained within the brain structure and chemistry.
ArtificialSouls 1 year ago
emotions are emergent reactions to stimuli...
PinkProgram 1 year ago
@PinkProgram not only that, because that's just the reason for their action. But why do emotions exist? One common idea is, that emotions are a method for back propagation, which is required for a learning neural net. Though allot of neural net use some evolutionary form, back propagation of some kind is a powerful component in learning, and should definitely not be ignored.
ArtificialSouls 1 year ago
@PinkProgram Oh hey, what did you think of my WAVE to mouth thingy?
ArtificialSouls 1 year ago
@ArtificialSouls it works ^_^
PinkProgram 1 year ago