The Road to Serfdom

[disneyking81]

It's scary how so many people say that democracy isn't good because the division causes no clear direction to be taken.

[chiefmanytkdown2]

If obama doesnt like evil monopolies why does he keep bailing out big buisnesses like aig, chase bank, and gmc?

[SecretTrollAccount1]

The only Government that works is the one where you can make war against it and have a standing chance of victory over it. When you have that economy in mind everything after is simple

[SSGurgs]

“Still one thing more, fellow citizens—a wise and frugal government, which shall restrain men from injuring one another, shall leave them otherwise free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned. This is the sum of good government, and this is necessary to close the circle of our felicities.”

Thomas Jefferson: Inauguration Speech

[soapbxprod]

@SSGurgs Jefferson's words/ideas are identical to Ms. Rand's! Huzzah!

[SSGurgs]

"Majority rule only works if you're also considering individual rights. Because you can't have five wolves and one sheep voting on what to have for supper."

Larry Flynt

[SecretTrollAccount1]

HEIL HITLER!

Fuck you Pro-Semite lying fuckers. Hitler wasnt an Anti. Nazi's werent Antis. They smashed the Commie scumpigphuckers and pushed their shit in.

[jopie90]

@SecretTrollAccount1 Hitler was a socialist. Read the fucking book/ some history.

[SecretTrollAccount1]

@jopie90 Wrong. Germany wanted Socialism, Germany. Not the CCCP.

Hitler was a Liberal. Torn between seeing his country thrown into chains and ridden by Moscow's seated criminal Bolsheviki or having to give the Pinko's what they wanted, he opted for compromise, NATIONAL SOCIALISM. Which worked well till the Genocidalists started to appear envious to the Germans ability to reform, killing and stealing from Ethnic Germans till all that was needed, was the green light to retaliate... WW2.

[jopie90]

@SecretTrollAccount1 You didn't read the book, did you?

[SecretTrollAccount1]

@jopie90 The one with the dragon and the gay donkey?

[meprimea]

@Galt425: You've got the quote backwards. I believe it's, "democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on what's for dinner." The way you wrote it, the sheep would win the vote.

[soapbxprod]

@meprimea Yes!

[Galt425]

82abhilash said: "Has anyone considered 'direct democracy' and its implications?"

There's an old joke about democracy borne out by a lot of the writings of the founding fathers of the US. It illustrates why we are a republic and -not- a democracy: "Democracy is two lambs and a lion voting on what's for dinner". I will go look for the source on that, if anyone here knows please post it. But it seems like wisdom to me,.

[82abhilash]

I think the US is degenerating into a democracy.

[YourNameHere1212]

@82abhilash Our republic was destroyed with the 17th Amendment.

[gmh80]

"The best arguement against democracy is a 5 minute conversation with the average voter." -- Winston Churchill

[soapbxprod]

@Galt425 Actually, it's two lions and one lamb! You can find it on Wikipedia!

[gmh80]

#12 is "Big Business"

[Offatwork]

Really? I think it's republicans. Hayek wasn't in support for big business. He was in support for big competition.

[Questfortruth86]

Chapter 10 perfectly describes America's current sociopolitical situation.

[Monty1994]

thanks for the video. this is great. Someone mentioned Chile. After Pinochet took power inflation was rampant, but lucky for him there were Chilean Economists taught by Freidman in chicago, they reccommended a free market, which Pinochet implemented, revived Chilean economically, and helped create conditions for democracy. Chile as far as LAtin American countries go is thriving. There cannot be Freedom without free markets, and free markets led to freedom in Chile.

[82abhilash]

I know about the case of Chile. The economists who revived the Chilean economy are referred to as Friedmanites or Monetarists. They are in no way socialist of course. But I hesitate to call them free marketeers because freedom implies freedom from government intervention as well and they depend too much on government intervention. Similar policies where followed by Mussolini in fascist Italy and it did revive their economy. Notice a pattern?

[scrutograph]

But there is dictatorship and free market in one country as well, e.g. Chile and Pinochet.

[82abhilash]

You know I wonder nowadays. The publicly held corporation is created by legislation. In other words we need a regulation for it to exist as an entity in the market. Is that it self not a form of legislation that decreases market efficiency? How can a market bound by regulations be called free? If that is the case then Chile and Pinochet destroyed the free market did they not?

[82abhilash]

Hi, I am trying to move the discussion to a slightly different area here. Given that large number of Europeans have commented. The government shown in this cartoon started out as a representative democracy and ended up being totalitarian. Has anyone considered 'direct democracy' and its implications? Like in Switzerland?

[Terilien]

Depends on the level of decentralization.

[upsidown13]

Switzerland's direct democracy is the most absurd system in the world. One example: they have voted the hour at which all shops *have to* close! Now at eight o'clock no market large or small is open. The people have spoken!

[ilhaguru]

Wow, I was looking at some posts below, and its so nice to see Europeans talking about this, Hayek/Misses, etc. I am so tired to always debating socialism.

:)

[LocoinelCoco1]

No, and it would be nothing like the USA, at least you elect your legislatures, we don't.

[82abhilash]

Maybe that will change eventually or if not it should. I somehow like the idea. The world gets consolidated not just economically and politically but also socially. My hope is that in the long run, it will become inevitable.

[LocoinelCoco1]

The European legislatures currently get more than 50% of the laws they pass from Brussels, headquarters of the European Union, a supranational entity of non-elected bureaucrats who decide anything from the minimum width of car tires to the size of window frames. But the Union doesn't tell you anything about how they try to sneak in much bigger laws (e.g) the constitution which was terminated in both France and Holland, so now the Union is proposing the same constitution, but in another writing.

[82abhilash]

Do you like the idea of living in an European super-state? USE (United States of Europe) like USA (United Stated of America)?

[LocoinelCoco1]

How sad to see todays youth getting drawn to socialism and it's ilk. They fail to recognize that the very thing they wish to combat (e.g) capitalism, is that which has giving their countries such a high standard of living (in Europe that is).

[82abhilash]

I think the reason is that in Europe, there is an emphasis on making the government act responsibly on behalf of its citizens. In the US on the other hand, the government's job is to help citizens act responsibly - the former gives power to the government, that latter gives freedom, to the people. Freedom is both a privilege and a burden however, if you are used to looking at the government all the time for solutions, you will find it very difficult to live somewhere where it is not the case.

[Terilien]

The european union's economy is going to crash if it doesn't do something. Seriously 40 percent of its budget is spent on barely "helping" 1 percent of people. Hell it doesn't even help them. Then they dump the surplus onto foreign markets at absurdly low prices.

[Terilien]

Ah. I'm a highschool student who began to read mises in his time off. I also enjoy sowell.

I'm currently in Canada where the younger generation supports our socialist party. Its unfortunate that so few people understand that capitalism, and the free amrket are responsible for most of the improvement in daily life. Its also sad to see so many people become enamoured with Stalin. The man was a narcissist nothing more.

[82abhilash]

Lot about how and why the free markets work is extemly counter-intuitive. How to bring about social reforms through market solutions is even more of a challenge, a challenge I must add the US government is better at, relatively speaking. There is a documentary you might like "Commanding Heights".

pbs org/wgbh/commandingheights/hi/­story/index html

[Terilien]

Finally someone who understands economics agrees. where are you from?

[82abhilash]

I am originally from India, but I am in the US now. My economics professor was a student and under Milton Friedman you see.

[Terilien]

Well meaning idealists are selling the plan to the public.

[82abhilash]

Yes they are, and it is their good intentions that pave the road to hell.

[82abhilash]

How far on the 'Road to Serfdom' is your country?