Having grown up twenty miles away from Plymouth, I have been waiting to hear a lecture that touches on the Puritans' belief system in such depth for some time now.
This Harvard Phd is quite misinformed. From basics as pronouncing synod (sin-ed) as "sYnod" to foundational errors as saying the Puritans believed that "no one can be sure he or she is among the elect" (9:17), errors abound.
Dr. Patell is obviously an intelligent man, his presentation however is filled with ignorance regarding Calvinism and Puritanism.
Very erudite analysis. Unforunately only an apt student of both history and theology such as myself can understand what he is saying. Why in the world did I pay to go to a third rate college when I can get such lectures online??
@samjelli Key word in that statement,: "Almost". Regardless of your religious views, it's important to learn about historical mindsights and their impact on the modern world.
The English Puritans created a prosperous society in New England. Unforunatelly, they were just to liberal. So, it is no wonder that their descendants let Irish,Italian and Jewish immigrants take over New England.
@EnglishEthnicPride2 Yeah, I mean why let THOSE "devils" ruin your lack of fun, right? Typical wasp reaction, blaming others for how boring they really are.
Liberal? hardly. they were more conservative than todays conservatives they repressed everything involving entertainment and the arts and believed that anything involving the arts is viewed as the worship of false idols which is a mortal sin. children couldn't sing non religious songs, dance, play pretend the only thing they could do for fun was read the bible? liberals are open minded. the puritans were not.
@beastboixxx define what you mean by liberal. liberal in the sense of liberty like libertarian, than no. they believed that everything should be for the community and didnt believe in individualism. To relate it to todays politics they resemble todays democrats more than the republican/libertarians.
It really depends on the period of Puritanism. The very early Puritans were quite left-wing(arguably Communist) on the economic spectrum. A man named Robert Keayne was actually arrested simply for making too much money. However, quickly, the Puritan theologians held strict free-market capitalism to be the best because they held man to be too totally depraved to regulate the economy. Samuel Adams, the staunchest capitalist, is often considered the last bona fide Puritan.
First of all, the Jewish community isn't particularly prominent in New England outside of the part of Connecticut that is really more like New York City than New England. Secondly, the Puritans evolved into several sects and became tolerant as a continuation of their moral mission. The Irish and Italian immigrants did not make New England liberal. Assimilating them into the Unitarian culture made NE liberal.
Many Catholic cops supported the Watch and Ward Society.
Also, only southern New England is predominantly Irish, Italian, and sometimes Portuguese. Northern New England and the part of Upstate New York that is an extension of New England is predominantly of Yankee(meaning colonial) ancestry.
@AmmorMagnusDoctorEst Puritanism - The haunting reality that at one time in history people were given the ability to examine themselves in light of how they ought to live and how short we come from that standard.
@gvassi17 I respect that but that is not what is visible when purely examining their theology -- "Idolatry is committed, not merely by setting up false gods, but also by setting up false devils; by making men afraid of war or alcohol, or economic law, when they should be afraid of spiritual corruption and cowardice" Strains of Calvinist interpretations have caused many to go astray on one side, and have "Somber Christian Syndrome" on the side of the flock
@AmmorMagnusDoctorEst Early Puritanism worked! I am not saying that it ran on down the drain, but it has more fruits than any Marxist economic principals!
Having grown up twenty miles away from Plymouth, I have been waiting to hear a lecture that touches on the Puritans' belief system in such depth for some time now.
Jignasty5 1 week ago
i'm european and Imho puritanism worked bad for europe. ( in the past )
it ruined the whole europe.
dougarr 2 months ago
funny how Reagan quoted John Winthrop. John Winthrop's vision of a "city upon a hill" was a socialist utopia.
sacchaw0 3 months ago
This Harvard Phd is quite misinformed. From basics as pronouncing synod (sin-ed) as "sYnod" to foundational errors as saying the Puritans believed that "no one can be sure he or she is among the elect" (9:17), errors abound.
Dr. Patell is obviously an intelligent man, his presentation however is filled with ignorance regarding Calvinism and Puritanism.
HoldFast1689 3 months ago
Very erudite analysis. Unforunately only an apt student of both history and theology such as myself can understand what he is saying. Why in the world did I pay to go to a third rate college when I can get such lectures online??
WorshipInTruth 4 months ago
Its a shame so much time is being wasted on this, as there is almost definitely no god.
samjelli 10 months ago
@samjelli Key word in that statement,: "Almost". Regardless of your religious views, it's important to learn about historical mindsights and their impact on the modern world.
Lieblingsfachful 8 months ago
The English Puritans created a prosperous society in New England. Unforunatelly, they were just to liberal. So, it is no wonder that their descendants let Irish,Italian and Jewish immigrants take over New England.
EnglishEthnicPride2 1 year ago 3
@EnglishEthnicPride2 Yeah, I mean why let THOSE "devils" ruin your lack of fun, right? Typical wasp reaction, blaming others for how boring they really are.
maugustyniak 1 year ago
@EnglishEthnicPride2
Liberal? hardly. they were more conservative than todays conservatives they repressed everything involving entertainment and the arts and believed that anything involving the arts is viewed as the worship of false idols which is a mortal sin. children couldn't sing non religious songs, dance, play pretend the only thing they could do for fun was read the bible? liberals are open minded. the puritans were not.
beastboixxx 3 months ago
@beastboixxx define what you mean by liberal. liberal in the sense of liberty like libertarian, than no. they believed that everything should be for the community and didnt believe in individualism. To relate it to todays politics they resemble todays democrats more than the republican/libertarians.
sacchaw0 3 months ago
@sacchaw0,
It really depends on the period of Puritanism. The very early Puritans were quite left-wing(arguably Communist) on the economic spectrum. A man named Robert Keayne was actually arrested simply for making too much money. However, quickly, the Puritan theologians held strict free-market capitalism to be the best because they held man to be too totally depraved to regulate the economy. Samuel Adams, the staunchest capitalist, is often considered the last bona fide Puritan.
MegaAstrodude 2 weeks ago
@sacchaw0,
Have you read Max Weber? His work isn't perfect, but it sheds lots of insight on the connection between Puritanism and Capitalism.
MegaAstrodude 2 weeks ago
@EnglishEthnicPride2,
First of all, the Jewish community isn't particularly prominent in New England outside of the part of Connecticut that is really more like New York City than New England. Secondly, the Puritans evolved into several sects and became tolerant as a continuation of their moral mission. The Irish and Italian immigrants did not make New England liberal. Assimilating them into the Unitarian culture made NE liberal.
Many Catholic cops supported the Watch and Ward Society.
MegaAstrodude 2 weeks ago
@EnglishEthnicPride2,
Also, only southern New England is predominantly Irish, Italian, and sometimes Portuguese. Northern New England and the part of Upstate New York that is an extension of New England is predominantly of Yankee(meaning colonial) ancestry.
MegaAstrodude 2 weeks ago
Purity is always good.
DivineFellowship 1 year ago
this presentation is MOST amazing!
SEK4110 1 year ago
Puritanism - the haunting fear that someone, somewhere, may be happy :)
AmmorMagnusDoctorEst 1 year ago 8
@AmmorMagnusDoctorEst Puritanism - The haunting reality that at one time in history people were given the ability to examine themselves in light of how they ought to live and how short we come from that standard.
gvassi17 1 year ago
@gvassi17 I respect that but that is not what is visible when purely examining their theology -- "Idolatry is committed, not merely by setting up false gods, but also by setting up false devils; by making men afraid of war or alcohol, or economic law, when they should be afraid of spiritual corruption and cowardice" Strains of Calvinist interpretations have caused many to go astray on one side, and have "Somber Christian Syndrome" on the side of the flock
AmmorMagnusDoctorEst 1 year ago
@AmmorMagnusDoctorEst Early Puritanism worked! I am not saying that it ran on down the drain, but it has more fruits than any Marxist economic principals!
NB3K 8 months ago
@AmmorMagnusDoctorEst No, that is Liberalism.
sirjames45 1 year ago
excellent video
BillKiernan 1 year ago