yeah... go to You Tube - Living The American Dream - click on green graph on white page..... pass it on..... We need to put that $162 billion into saving American families. If you lose your home, you lose your family, you lose your community, you lose your job, you lose your mind.
Thank you for making this video and for expressing yourself so intelligently and passionately. You are right that you are one of millions who are disillusioned with the Democratic Party. After the May 31 fiasco, when the DNC elite showed the peons (the rest of us) where their loyalties lie, I felt I had no choice but to leave the Democratic Party and re-register as unaffiliated. The surprise to me was that I felt elation rather than sadness when I mailed in my new registration form.
Thanks for/kind words. I admire your stand, but this is the heartrending result I warned would come. A prior note said there are 40+ parties in US. The bad news is the last non-R/D Pres was Millard Fillmore(Whig)1850-1853. I am repulsed at the idea of 1/20/2009 seeing a R sworn in. Howard Dean, his co- imbeciles, and the A.Cooper-led cadre of pretty-face newsies should all be horsewhipped for bastardizing this election process. It isn't @ Clin/Edw/Ob/Rich. It's @ electing a Dem. God help the US!
Obama alone is mostly responsible for triggering the resurgence of involvement you talk about. Clinton voted for the Iraq War resolution and continues to be a closet Cheney on this. The DNC screwup was not an intentional manipulation a la Rove, etc. To allow McCain to win -- the party suicide you advocate would be national suicide. And counting every FL or MI vote fully is not ethical or moral. How can it be when there was no campaign and Obama's name wasn't on the ballot? Obama would've won MI.
It's abundantly clear to me that you would be saying whatever you needed to say to support Hilary regardless of the circumstances, up to and including the exact opposite of what you're saying now. So what's with you Hilary supporters and your problem with Obama? From whence does your hatred of him flow? Because the thing is, when Obama supporters express distaste and frustration with Hilary they can actually site y'know, real things she's done. Hilary supports just seem blindly loyal to her.
Any person's past might reveal hair-raising facts(mine included). My opinion is that Sen. Clinton's skills would serve us well in this time of global chaos. REGARDLESS, I take GREAT UMBRAGE at your baseless charge of "hating"(sic) Sen. Obama. You do not know me! I am sick of "hatred" "racist" and other vile charges being made by/against Democrats simply because we hold various opinions. AGAIN, see my remarks re: Alabama 1980s. All of us can CITE (sic) reasons why we hold our respective views.
How can you count a vote in which one candidate's name was not even on the ballot and there was no campaign? Wouldn't that be ruthless and unfair? I think a half vote is a fair compromise. Your comparisons and extreme rhetoric do not correlate with reality. What's your problem with Obama anyway?
Whether to be on a ballot was part of Dean's mishandling of this whole affair. I don't blame Richardson, Obama, Kucinich, Clinton, or any other for not knowing how this would shake out. THE PEOPLE, US, WE DESERVE BETTER! This country DESPERATELY needs new leadership, I believe Democratic, come next January. If the party drives people away(my original point re: Alabama,1980s) then we may hand the Republicans a default victory. Sen. Obama isn't the problem, backlash opposite voting may well be!
I don't understand what your motivation is here. Count the Florida and Michigan votes in total? No way, I'll revolt myself. Moving the primaries, in violation of DNC rules, was a decision that had the full support of the elected Democrats in Florida. Only one voted against the move. They knew what they were doing. Obama ran national ads that aired in Florida, he did not campaign in Florida. Hillary on the other hand...
Again, my motivation is simple. Though a primary(not national election), the "one person-one vote" precept is major in our politics. We often disagree with our elected reps. AGAIN, voters in these states voted good faith they would be counted. We have possible armageddon in the middle east/balkans, Supreme Court Justices hanging by their fingernails, fiscal chaos here and abroad, New Orleans/Gulf Coast still in shambles and TRILLION DOLLAR DEBT! I want Democratic leadership, not party suicide.
Ah, "I want Democratic leadership, not party suicide," it all makes perfect sense now. It's not necessarily about one person one vote, it's about the outcome of this primary process. Seriously, and I believe I am speaking to a fellow liberal Democrat here, Is it really about the fairness of the process? Or is it because the victor of this process is somehow unelectable? Do you have the courage of your convictions? Or do things like principles and values only matter so long as we win?
It is indeed about one person/one vote. The process was unfair to every Democrat, EVERY voter and candidate alike. Reiterating my original position: just like Ala/1980s, if the Dem party drives people away thru perceived ?able acts, we lose, the world loses and chaos continues if we hand Repubs a default win. If Richardson were leading and Obama trailing, my point would still be the same. As a yellow-dog Dem, I subscribe to the "bad day at the beach beats a good day at work" theory. We must win!
heyboy - 1. Before FL & MI voters went to the polls the party told them their votes wouldn't count. AND Hillary backed that decision. Now that she's behind, & since she was smart (duplicitous) enough to stay on the ballots, she's "fighting for the voters." 2. For your information, YOU DON'T COUNT to the party leaders. Why else do they have the "superdelegates," which are able to completely override the popular vote?
These are reasons I left the party. The rest of you are living in denial.
Again: A # of things(FLA Rep, other factors) made this disaster, over which the voters had little/no control. Name-calling serves no purpose in solving this. Each knew the #s in these states, thus his move to ignore them(tho he ran ads seen there). Voters expected a fair solution. As it has been neck&neck all along, despite media bias, sup/dels otherwise couldn't "override". I have no illusions @ our lone "value" to DNC. With two(flawed) parties, I see no SENSIBLE option. No denial found there!
"With two(flawed) parties, I see no SENSIBLE option"
--So somehow this is also the Republicans' fault? How?
The only sensible option is to realize that the Democratic Party is full of liars & opportunists who will stab you in the back & swear it was a Republican who did it. You also have politicians who say one thing, then do another right in front of your faces & you never call them on it.
"Duplicitous" is namecalling. As are"liars, opportunists, & back...stab(sic)". Our 2 party system IS lacking, tho better than most. SENSIBLE option refers to working within this 2-party system. Most pols"say one, do other". No moral hi ground EITHER party there. My vid DOES call them on it. CREDIT to McCain@lobbyists/Hagee, Obama@Wright, Clinton@Doyle; tho all overdue. I don't impugn your choices. To better inform others, you might adopt a less strident tone. Spittle and foam do not points make!
"'Duplicitous' is namecalling. As are'liars, opportunists, & back...stab(sic)'"
--No they're not. "Asshole" & "shit-face" are examples of "name-calling." If someone lies & I call him a liar, thats not "name-calling." Please go back to gradeschool & relearn all of this.
"Our 2 party system IS lacking"
--The USA has 40+ parties.
"Most pols"say one, do other"."
--Thats why we need to elect people of honor & integrity.
Also, it takes you, me, all who will, to hold politicians' feet to the fire. That is the ONLY way to mold stateswomen and statesmen out of baser humans. Abraham Lincoln became a great statesman. Lyndon B. Johnson became a great statesman. Politicians maneuver for personal/constituency gain. Statesmen choose the greater good over personal/party cost. We should all pull TOGETHER, encourage one another, agree or not. Everett Dirksen(R) and Lyndon Johnson(D) did; so can we. ELSE, pols win/we lose!
I hope to have respectful discussion with all who care to comment. I DO respect your right to hold your opinions. I will at this time, however, exercise my right to keep the tone of these discussions at a more civil level, after offering you the chance to moderate your choice of expression. I will leave your current comments posted, but future puerile remarks from you must go elsewhere. Sorry you couldn't seem to rise above the aforementioned juvenile "IKNOWYOUAREBUTWHATAMI?" sad level.
Final error on your part: Pres. Johnson(D) paid heed to Pres. Eisenhower(R), a MOST HIGHLY respected WW2 Command General, who in his last major Pres. speech warned against the influence "of the growing military-industrial complex" and its desire to make war an ongoing business. Johnson did his utmost to find advisors he could trust, to end the war once and for all. Which party had the greatest stake in war businesses, just like today? YOU might want to go back and relearn your basic history.
"Final error on your part: Pres. Johnson(D) paid heed"
"Johnson did his utmost to find advisors he could trust, to end the war once and for all"
"YOU might want to go back and relearn your basic history"
Actually you need to check your history books. Johnson was given a target priority list in Vietnam by commanders in the field. The Johnson Admin. ordered the military to start at the bottom of that list & work upward. No offense, but ow does that fit with ANY of your statements?
Actually YOU need to check YOUR history books. With Korea fresh, Cold War raging, Pres. Johnson attempted a carrot&stick approach to lead the VietCong to peace talks for the region. This originally included no bombing of Hanoi/Haiphong Harbor. This "target list" was part of the MILITARY strategy, not Johnson's doing. They had constant meetings re: this strategy. It failed. Search for Dr. Wayne Thompson, Jacob Van Staaveren, & AirForce Hist. Rsrch. Agency at Maxwell AF Base Montgomery Alabama.
Yes, the military produced a target list in order of priority. The Johnson Admin. told them to start at the bottom. This is what every single high ranking officer who was involved has said since the war ended. Every commanding officer, every pilot, even McNamara said it, McCain said it, Colin Powell said it. And you believe the opposite because of these two people? Come on.
I personally believe that the FL and MI votes will be counted when Hillary concedes the nomination and the delegates will be able to attend the convention. But with the superdelegates behind Obama, it will be too late for Mrs. Clinton to take the nomination. Then the Dems will have to rally to squash John Bush McCain. If people try to push Hillary for 2012 by destroying Obama, you want to talk about a backlash vote! It will be ugly. No one wants another 4 years of this crap.
Yes, we must punish the other 48 states for being dumb enough to obey the rules and reward Florida and Michigan for being smart enough to break the rules.
It is not about punish/reward. Neither Michigan nor Florida is a singular behemoth, bent on destroying downtown Tokyo. It is not even about Clinton/McCain/Obama. This is about people dying in Iraq, dying needing basic healthcare, losing their homes, starving, suffering...if the DNC screws up further than it has already, Obama, Clinton, or an as yet un-named 3rd could find themselves fighting a backlash swing vote like in Alabama as I mentioned. ( Watch this again.)
I think if thid had happened with the spread the repubs had between their candidates, none of the voters from either state would care. I had to be out of town when my state caucused and i am not crying about being disinfranchised.
Thanks for letting me know about my other post. :) The state I live in doesn't count absentee votes in the democratic caucus. I sent it and left on a trip that had been arranged for awhile. I then found out that they only counted the people who showed up. That's okay because my absentee ballot will be counted in November. I am kinda sad I missed the caucus, though.
i like how you suggest the DNC is screwing you over WHEN YOU KNEW it wouldnt count when you voted. you were told it wouldnt. want to be mad? be mad at your state leaders. sorry hillary supporters, you cant change the rules when you want to. everybody signed a pledge agreeing it wouldnt count. where was all this dissent BEFORE the vote? oh yeah, that was before we all knew clinton lost.sorry.michigan and florida will get alot of attention in the GE.Obama is already reaching out and visiting both.
It is not about me. It is about the democratic (and Democratic Party) process. I do not care if you support persons or causes that I choose not to. Maybe you have something I need to know or learn. But shrill tone and personal attacks against a person or cause rarely wins friends and influences people. By the way, if you had paid attention, I'm from Alabama.
He's a KYLE! Florida and Michigan don't count because they did not follow the rules. Additionally, Obama wasn't even on the ballot. Hillary lost. Get over it. Even if she's getting the votes, she still won't win btw ...
Thank you! You speak for many Democrats across the nation, including here in CA. After being a Democrat for decades, I could no longer reconcile myself to their stance on FL & MI and reregistered as an independent. When the party that used to stand up for voting rights wises up and does so again, I'll reconsider. Not before. I salute you, sir.
The elected officals of both states decided not to heed the party. The partial blame goes to those who voted for the people who made these decisions. The people who voted in the primaries in good faith were unimformed. Those who were informed sat out or voted down ticket and maybe marked their ballot without being misinformed that it would be counted. They knew the delegates wouldn't be seated
How can we count the will of these states accurately when only the ininformed are crying foul?
It would be great if the back-room partisan deal(s) of the DNC that brought us to this place were known by all. Then reasonable judgements could be made. I don't see this as a candidate or party issue as much as a moral and legal issue. And be honest, you know as well as I do that good, fair-minded people of all candidates, and every (or no) party are questioning this issue.
Heyboy, this is a sincere question. Please reply. How can the DNC fully and fairly count the vote from Michigan and Florida when all the candidates' names were not on the ballot in Michigan and they were not allowed to campaign in Florida? How is that fair? Also, if the votes are counted and Barack Obama still has the delegate lead, will you vote for Obama? Or, is it your intention to do whatever it takes to nominate Mrs. Clinton? Please reply. Thanks.
As your site reveals a slant for Sen. Obama against SENATOR Clinton, I can only say that the DNC OBVIOUSLY engaged in "The Manchurian Candidate"-style shenanigans to arrive us here. I proudly support Sen. Clinton, as I believe her the more experienced and thus capable person to lead our government. Regardless, my feelings of betrayal and wrongful action by the DNC would be the same if I supported Obama, McCain, or Mortimer Snerd. All voters, every party, has a right to vote. That's Civics 101.
I make no threat. I raise legitimate concern as regards DNC tomfoolery that may cost us YET ANOTHER critical election. And to paraphrase "Animal House" 's Dean Wormer, "Snide, catty, and pointless is no way to go through life, son."
Yes, we women and many men by and large will vote for anyone but Obama. America faces the most difficult times in our nation and we don't want, need, or can we handle a controversial, questionable, rookie to lead "US" into these, the most critical times of any Presidency to date. Go Hillary, and please far left wing, wake up!!! Comparing the bases of support Clinton is far and away the best candidate for the Democrats in the fall. Otherwise, we lose again!!!
The news media in this country is a joke and it is sad that you have to resort to the BBC for the real new. MI and Fl could have been resolved months ago but Obama wanted no part of a revote because he know he will lose
Right on point(s)! If the DNC had not attempted to "gerrymander" this process, there would not be the chance that we can seriously lose this election. I bear no ill will towards Sen. Obama or his supporters. If he were to become the Dem nominee, I might have to support him, given the sickening alternative. Why do they, then, and very obviously most all of the press, appear to bear such Rove-ish hatred for Sen. Clinton?
heyboy, you outted me as an Obama supporter. Oh well, I guess people had to know at some point. Anyway, you didn't answer my question. How is it fair to count the FL and MI vote when Obama wasn't on the ballot in MI and didn't campaign in FL? It's just not fair. People must have known that it wasn't going to count when they couldn't vote for Obama in MI and nobody visited FL. Wouldn't that tip them off that their ballots wouldn't count? You know you are on the wrong side of this issue.
The answer, as anyone should know, is that Obama chose not to have his name on the Michigan ballot, so it's his fault he got no votes there. Neither he nor Hillary were allowed to campaign in Florida, but he played an end-around by putting a commercial on CNN, which played in Florida as well as the rest of the country, so HE broke the rules by campaigning there. Even so, Hillary won the state. Why aren't you campaigning against making Florida Dems pay for something Republicans forced on them?
The Dems had their chance to campaign against the Republicans. I don't know why they didn't fight it last year. It's FL and MI fault for allowing this to happen. The problem is that Hillary is trying to change the rules in the middle of the game. We all know this is unethical. She can't claim votes that were obtained illegally. She said it herself. "We all know MI and FL won't mean anything." Please stop pushing this sour grapes argument. It was a fair race and she lost. Unity, soon.
Actually, they did campaign against it, they tried to vote down the bill that moved the primaries up, and were unable to do it because they didn't have the numbers. The party tried to stop it and couldn't, because the Republicans were determined to make it happen. Howard Dean and the DNC then made the stupid decision to penalize the Dems for voting! All votes should be counted, and all delegates should be seated at teh convention.
That should be motivation for them to elect democrats into the state legislature. Perhaps that was the goal all along. Pissing off FL voters should motivate them to flip their govt. Not a bad idea.
Thank you Shirley! Both sides have played politics, that is the nature of the game. Again, this is my concern. Republicans, with decent, if misguided(my opinion) Sen. McCain, stand a VERY GOOD chance of winning if the Democrats implode from internecine warfare.
I'm not so cynical as to believe that, heyboy. We always come together in the end. I can't help wondering where all the people hollering for Hillary to pull out now were when SHE looked like the sure winner. No one called for Edwards, Obama, Richardson, or any of the others to bow out gracefully and let her have it in order to further party unity. Only when it's Obama leading do the cries come out. One wonders why....
I sincerely pray you are right @ uniting. I STRENUOUSLY second your question. Where were all these "we aren't biased, we just want the good of the party" voices then? Wondering about this leads to some sad, disturbing conclusions. Just think what an experienced Pres. Clinton and learning Vice-Pres. Obama could do for the next 16 years & beyond! As I have expressed elsewhere, it was the more experienced Lyndon Johnson who nearly equaled FDR with Great Society & Civil RIghts laws, not JFK.
I couldn't agree more. I think a Clinton/Obama ticket would be unbeatable, and would stand the best chance of getting us back where we should be. I honestly believe there is something out there on Obama that the Rovians know about, have secreted away, and will cheerfully pull out in the general election. I don't believe Obama stands a real chance against them. Clinton has no skeletons left in her closet, which is why they are so afraid to run against her.
You are right. At this point, I do not question Obama's integrity. He may in youth, like us all, have made choices that he wouldn't do again, people he befriended (like Rezko) may have betrayed him by their actions. I'm not as worried about the real problems of either person as I am the Atwater/Rove mantra "If I have to lie, cheat, steal, or kill, I, no nor any of my party, will ever lose an election again, as God is my witness!" (apologies to Scarlett and Margaret Mitchell) Swiftboat, anyone?
Also, Clinton has never postured as a runaway lead/unstoppable candidate. This has been a dead heat run from early on, no one far & away ahead (like McCain for Rep). I have no doubt we will win when WE ALL get together, I just know from the Baxley-Graddick brawl in Alabama, and the stupefying results of both the 2000 & 2004 elections(?!?!?!?) that the seemingly preposterous can occur when stupid leaders do stupid things.
As you know I have innumerable reasons for opposing Mrs. Clinton's candidacy, but to answer your question...the reason people appear to bear such Rove-ish hatred for Mrs. Clinton is because she uses Rove tactics in her campaign. And it is a fact that Rove is a good friend of the Clintons. I was stunned to learn this when it was mentioned on the Bill O' show. Rove agreed when Bill pointed to this fact. Being from Alabama you should know that if you sleep with dogs you wake up with fleas.
I'm glad you have reasons to support Sen. Obama, and oppose Sen. Clinton. But it belittles our discourse when you, I, or anyone else uses childish (or even hateful) tactics of the Pee-Wee Herman "IKNOWYOUAREBUTWHATAMI?" school. He is Senator Obama, NOT "OSAMA/boy/that muslim". She is Senator Clinton, NOT "Bitch/hitlery/that C**t". Nor is she simply Mrs. They are Senators and deserve that respect. By the way, know your enemies is wise counsel, but FoxNews is hardly a bastion of "fair&balanced"!
point taken on the Sen. Clinton issue, but what's with the Fox News thing? You gotta know that I don't subscribe to Fox's propaganda.
Also, as for the redneck reference. I'm originally from NC. It's one of those I can call my family redneck but you can't call my family redneck. I thought fellow southerners share similar expressions.
6th, I will now use a Pee-Wee-ism myself. (LOL) The Fox "Noise" Channel has apparent STROOOOOOOOOOONG bias that to many, myself included, sets it askew from any other "legitimate" news source. In my opinion, it is much more from the "700club/JackVanImpePresents/TASS News(old USSR)/drink you koolaid because Jim Jones said so" ilk than from the "check your sources three times, and their sources five!" school of journalism. I want my news from people I do and DON'T like, not just a biased screed.
I only imbibe to develop my own arguments against the enemy.
Sean Hannity is such a whiny puss! And, Colmes isn't much of a liberal strongman. But, if I didn't watch, I'd be lacking in right wing crackpot propaganda.
Very true! I love how Al Franken refers to HANNITY & colmes! "You're a better man than I am, Gunga Din!" as you must have a stronger stomach than mine. I'm only 51, but the last 3 or so decades of nastiness in politics has left me somewhat weary. But that is why I have spoken out. (See my other video.) I am a yellow-dog Dem who does not want us to lose the hordes of fresh strong Dems coming in, or the election this fall. Pogo said "We have met the enemy, and he is us." I hope this isn't us now.
Oh and 6th, as to your remark about my being from Alabama "sleep w/dogs wake/w fleas", I refer you to Woody Harrelson on WILL & GRACE: "Oh, I get it. Just like all southerners are rednecks and all gay men are witty; just shows you how wrong those stereotypes can be!"
heyboy56, Even Obama agrees that FL and MI should be counted. My only question is, why did FL and MI hold their primaries early in the first place? They knew the consequences. When the DNC upholds it's own rules, then everyone's angry? If FL and MI are let off the hook, what does that say to other states? They will also break primary rules and expect no consequences. I think their delegates should be seated, but I can see the other side of this issue too.
As you, I see more than/single issue of when STATES/party officials chose to set respective primaries. In Florida a Rep. Gov. & Rep. majority(typical of both parties) bound the Dem. primary to other issues(the notorious voting machines and such). Whether for expediency in that legislature, or political gaming I don't know, however both parties are guilty of this type maneuver. Michigan is a little muddier(circumstances). I still fear the damage to Dem. credibility this fall and forward.
bbuc1, your uninformed ignorance is showing. It was a Democrat that introduced the bill. The bill passed 115 to 1. The Democrats supported it. Read something and don't depend upon what Clintonistas tell you.
There is even a video of the Democrats yucking it up about a bogus attempt (that they all voted against) to stop the move of the primary date.
I know all about that- A Freshman legislator was put up to propose it, and the GOP leadership wouldn't remove that rider on the date when requested (spanking Dean). I also know the date issue wasn't viewed as important enough to scuttle the greater bill, which got the paperless voting machines kicked out of every county in the Florida. Between the two issues, the voting machines were (and still are) far more important.
Nice job HeyBoy56- just remember- by their own rules they should seat 50% of the delegates in FL and MI. Whether or not it's the Mutha or the Brotha I don't personally mind... I'd vote for a yellow dog before I'd vote for a Repugnican... they are both bullies & cowards- business, politics. They admire strength over what's right. People who want to be "strong" need to understand the strongest people fight for what's right... like against Iraq war, for fairly counted elections, etc.
Dear Obama supporters, you may be right. Maybe Clinton can't catch up even if the votes are counted. Why are you so dead set against them counting then? Secondly, it is my understanding that the super delagates are supposed to base their votes on what they believe is the good of the party. That is the RULE that you were so against. Thirdly, Obama needs all the democratic votes in the GE. People are more likely to vote for him if they feel he has truly won the majority vote.
IF you want to blame somebody, blame the fools in the state parties of Florida and Michigan. They knew the consequences for their actions and they chose to leapfrog the primary dates anyway, so Florida and Michigan got exactly what they deserved.
Xyxox- you pompous ass... it was the Republicans in Florida who were responsible for forcing the early primary date on the state. And even then it wasn't that malicious... Hillary was expected to be the nominee and the Repugs wanted to spank Dean... just that simple. And btw, the Repugs themselves are very much like Nazis... check out the definitions of facism/nazism on Google... they're in attempted lockstep with Nazis... from corporatism to militarism to info control of media, etc., etc.
Thank you for speaking out against this outrage. Who ever could have imagined that Howard Dean would be the new Katherine Harris? It's so tempting just to stay home this fall.
Thank you. Don't forget that the corp-consolidated media sold the American public Bu$h over Gore, over Kerry. Now they are selling Obama until Maverick McCain is it, and then it will be Rezko and Wright non-stop. As investigative reporter Elizabeth Pringle writes in her articles about Obama... "A fifth grader with access to the internet could connect the dots."
Why can't the Democratic leadership?
Oh, well, Obama is going to crown himself this Tuesday (in Iowa?). Mission Accomplished.
I cannot say how grateful I am for your courage and forthrightness, sir. Thank you for speaking out, I am with you 100%! We will not let them do this to our party!
Thank you. It means so much to me to see Democrats from across the country fight for my, my family, my friends, and my neighbors right to participate in our government.
I've been enthusiastic about government and politics since I was 16. For the first time in my adult life, I am seriously considering sitting out this November. I just never thought it would be my own party that brought me to this point.
Thank you again for your words and your work to right this wrong.
Outstanding job! I completely agree with what you said. Most of all how, if the Democratic Party disenfranchises Florida and Michigan voters, it will truly be the "death knell" of the Party.
Thank you for your courage in speaking out! There are tens of thousands, if not millions of us, who you are speaking for!
Thank you for this much needed video. I live in California, but I stand with every voter in Florida and Michigan whose votes are being dismissed by this party. The "rules" do not state anything about not counting the votes; the rules apply to the delegates (and the rules call for stripping 50%, not 100%). This reeks of deceit and manipulation and the voters will speak in droves in November if this is not rectified now.
platanoman, she will get more popular votes and hopefully she will get enough superdelegates to get nominated. she was always welcome to have obama as her VP but the arrogant obama wants everything now without actually demonstrating that he is capable of been the president.
This is not just about winning. You don't see to understand this is about our right to have our votes counted, no matter the winner! We support Hillary because she is the only candidate supporting our right to have our vote counted!
Not so - you need to read some unbiased sources. If Fl and MI were seated she pulls ahead (go look at the numbers). Even if only Florida is seated she within reach of Obama and it is a statistical dead heat. When the superdelegates vote, they have an obligation to vote for the good of the party. It is clear that Obama can't beat McCain in November. The only sane option is that they vote for Hillary. This is far from over, and the media and Dean should be ashamed of themselves.
Then we can expect you to add your voice to the chorus demanding the DNC honor the Democrats of my state of FL as well as Michigan and seat their delegates according to their vote totals?
After all, it's truly noblest to finally agree to count all votes for your opponent only when you're totally confident the votes won't help them anyway. The greatest display of democracy, EVAR!
Um do you want the votes to be counted or what? They are going to be seated. It's not going to change anything. It was never going to change his insurmountable delegate lead.
heyboy56 ...Thanks for the video...seems like the Democrats would have learned by now(2000 2004)...Yes... i think it's time for a new democratic party(INDEPENDANT)...Remember..."We The People"... "United We Stand Devided We Fall" ... Time to Act is ....NOW...
heyboy, plenty of blogs including mine raise hell on this issue all the time, don't feel you're alone in the fight. check out noquarter (dot) com too, he's an ex cia agent totally behind Hill and the nonsense that is the obama phenom :)
If Hillary wishes to run as a Democrat, then she has to abide by the Democratic party rules. The rules are there for a reason and it's not fair for any candidate to try to change them after the fact.
If she doesn't like the rules set in place by the DNC then she should run as an independent.
I refer you to the comments posted by WHTT, to wit: "He lost Florida. He took his name off Michigan's ballot to game the system." Senator Clinton questioned the DNC ruling to begin with, unprecedented vis-a-vis the Party's rules, and the wisdom(?!?) and legality of disenfranchising two whole states (hers, natch) who spent taxpayer $ to hold what those states believed to be legitimate elections. If he can't abide by the prior uncontested rules...
Heyboy, you are just plain wrong when you say that Hillary contested the DNC's ruling that FL and MI would not count. Hillary put out a memo stating that she would abide by the DNC rules as they were stated prior to the start of the primaries and she is quoted (you can find it on youtube) saying that "everyone knows that MI will not count." You are just flat out wrong.
6th, You accuse me of "being...wrong". Either you misread my reply "THAT IS the bottom line!"(sloppy reading habits), or you purposefully and deceitfully attempt to put words in my mouth that I never said. I said, "Sen. Clinton QUESTIONED the DNC ruling to begin with", as regards disallowing ANYONEs vote(s). Considering the high bias of coverage by the media, it is no surprise that a LAZY skim would reveal LITTLE that Sen. Clinton has said on ANY subject. She did question it. I am not wrong.
okay, so i must have missed that, but my point is that you are wrong to want to count the FL and MI vote as legitimate. They are not and it sucks that they were punished for breaking the DNC rules but rules are rules for a reason. You can't break them and not expect repercussions.
# I want Donna Brazile and DNC to stop putting their thumb on the scales for Obama and against Clinton.
# I want the Rules and Bylaws Committee to waive the rules for FL and MI and seat all delegates as voted on without any "gifts" to Obama. He lost Florida. He took his name off Michigan's ballot to game the system.
Thank you for this video. As you so aptly said to the DNC leadership: "Please don't destroy our party. Please do what is right!"
I totally agree with you and will not remain a Democrat if Michigan and Florida delegates are not seated according to the votes cast in good faith by the people in these states.
Count FL and MI fully. Obama has had the chance to agree to a re vote so many times and has blocked democracy. Otherwise there will be indeed be 10's of millions of Americans who will defect from the party over this shameless junta.
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
Let's review the facts: In 2007, Michigan and Florida, in direct violation of party rules, scheduled their votes with the full knowledge that the Democratic Party would not recognize their results.
The Democratic candidates did not campaign in either state, and only Clinton was on the Michigan ballot.
Bottom line: If you break the rules, you need to deal with the consequences.
BOTTOM LINE: Howard Dean and his co-imbecile minions' arbitrary creation of this disaster (PARTY RULES-NOT LAW, by the way) in no way negates the "good-faith belief" of the voters in each state that this issue would be REASONABLY resolved long before now! That both candidates refrained from Florida's ballot, and Obama from Michigan's was the result of him not wasting time where he couldn't win, and both conserving their resources. That my dear mythicalcreature, IS THE BOTTOM LINE!!!!!
you have your info soooooo wrong and incorrect themythicalcreature that there's no space here to go into the details, you really don't have a clue on the facts of what went down in mich and fla.
i've seen (sadly) an email donna brazile sent to some ppl who sent her very cordial but serious letters for their concern on how Hill's being disenfranchised- sadly donna sent back a really nasty email to these ppl, she's clearly and sadly behind obama.
they can! simply send it to them, google dnc- i send emails to howard dean and his cronies off and on. you can easily find the phone # to the dnc online too.
ClinTURDmites are far worse than cockroaches & much more annoying and filthy! They are stubborn and have little itsy bitsy tiny weenie brains....and are just as obnoxious as Hitlery & her hard drinking hasbeen husband!!
The ClinTURDs wanted to prance right back into the White House again.....oops! It totally backfired on this corrupt and murderous fugly couple! hehehe!!! Karma is a BITCH and so is Hitlery!!!!!!!
Great job. MI and FL must be counted and Hillary must be our nominee. She offers the greatest hope for America and will be the greatest president we have ever known.
HERE! HERE! You can't see me but i am standing and applauding....very, very well said. We are not the one walking away from our principals...the DNC leadership is walking away from us. To ever ever consider for a moment not counting any vote, any where, is inexcusable, and unDemocratic. I am astonished everyday that this is even possible by my beloved party. We have, apparently, learned nothing in these last eight years. And we ame sooooo close to saving our country, just to have it stolen away.
yeah... go to You Tube - Living The American Dream - click on green graph on white page..... pass it on..... We need to put that $162 billion into saving American families. If you lose your home, you lose your family, you lose your community, you lose your job, you lose your mind.
LiveTheAmericanDream 3 years ago
Thank you for making this video and for expressing yourself so intelligently and passionately. You are right that you are one of millions who are disillusioned with the Democratic Party. After the May 31 fiasco, when the DNC elite showed the peons (the rest of us) where their loyalties lie, I felt I had no choice but to leave the Democratic Party and re-register as unaffiliated. The surprise to me was that I felt elation rather than sadness when I mailed in my new registration form.
clarkmom2 3 years ago
Thanks for/kind words. I admire your stand, but this is the heartrending result I warned would come. A prior note said there are 40+ parties in US. The bad news is the last non-R/D Pres was Millard Fillmore(Whig)1850-1853. I am repulsed at the idea of 1/20/2009 seeing a R sworn in. Howard Dean, his co- imbeciles, and the A.Cooper-led cadre of pretty-face newsies should all be horsewhipped for bastardizing this election process. It isn't @ Clin/Edw/Ob/Rich. It's @ electing a Dem. God help the US!
heyboy56 3 years ago
Obama alone is mostly responsible for triggering the resurgence of involvement you talk about. Clinton voted for the Iraq War resolution and continues to be a closet Cheney on this. The DNC screwup was not an intentional manipulation a la Rove, etc. To allow McCain to win -- the party suicide you advocate would be national suicide. And counting every FL or MI vote fully is not ethical or moral. How can it be when there was no campaign and Obama's name wasn't on the ballot? Obama would've won MI.
prisonerofalliance 3 years ago
It's abundantly clear to me that you would be saying whatever you needed to say to support Hilary regardless of the circumstances, up to and including the exact opposite of what you're saying now. So what's with you Hilary supporters and your problem with Obama? From whence does your hatred of him flow? Because the thing is, when Obama supporters express distaste and frustration with Hilary they can actually site y'know, real things she's done. Hilary supports just seem blindly loyal to her.
bmcguire80 3 years ago
Any person's past might reveal hair-raising facts(mine included). My opinion is that Sen. Clinton's skills would serve us well in this time of global chaos. REGARDLESS, I take GREAT UMBRAGE at your baseless charge of "hating"(sic) Sen. Obama. You do not know me! I am sick of "hatred" "racist" and other vile charges being made by/against Democrats simply because we hold various opinions. AGAIN, see my remarks re: Alabama 1980s. All of us can CITE (sic) reasons why we hold our respective views.
heyboy56 3 years ago
How can you count a vote in which one candidate's name was not even on the ballot and there was no campaign? Wouldn't that be ruthless and unfair? I think a half vote is a fair compromise. Your comparisons and extreme rhetoric do not correlate with reality. What's your problem with Obama anyway?
prisonerofalliance 3 years ago
Whether to be on a ballot was part of Dean's mishandling of this whole affair. I don't blame Richardson, Obama, Kucinich, Clinton, or any other for not knowing how this would shake out. THE PEOPLE, US, WE DESERVE BETTER! This country DESPERATELY needs new leadership, I believe Democratic, come next January. If the party drives people away(my original point re: Alabama,1980s) then we may hand the Republicans a default victory. Sen. Obama isn't the problem, backlash opposite voting may well be!
heyboy56 3 years ago
I don't understand what your motivation is here. Count the Florida and Michigan votes in total? No way, I'll revolt myself. Moving the primaries, in violation of DNC rules, was a decision that had the full support of the elected Democrats in Florida. Only one voted against the move. They knew what they were doing. Obama ran national ads that aired in Florida, he did not campaign in Florida. Hillary on the other hand...
1BEZERKO 3 years ago
Again, my motivation is simple. Though a primary(not national election), the "one person-one vote" precept is major in our politics. We often disagree with our elected reps. AGAIN, voters in these states voted good faith they would be counted. We have possible armageddon in the middle east/balkans, Supreme Court Justices hanging by their fingernails, fiscal chaos here and abroad, New Orleans/Gulf Coast still in shambles and TRILLION DOLLAR DEBT! I want Democratic leadership, not party suicide.
heyboy56 3 years ago
Ah, "I want Democratic leadership, not party suicide," it all makes perfect sense now. It's not necessarily about one person one vote, it's about the outcome of this primary process. Seriously, and I believe I am speaking to a fellow liberal Democrat here, Is it really about the fairness of the process? Or is it because the victor of this process is somehow unelectable? Do you have the courage of your convictions? Or do things like principles and values only matter so long as we win?
1BEZERKO 3 years ago
It is indeed about one person/one vote. The process was unfair to every Democrat, EVERY voter and candidate alike. Reiterating my original position: just like Ala/1980s, if the Dem party drives people away thru perceived ?able acts, we lose, the world loses and chaos continues if we hand Repubs a default win. If Richardson were leading and Obama trailing, my point would still be the same. As a yellow-dog Dem, I subscribe to the "bad day at the beach beats a good day at work" theory. We must win!
heyboy56 3 years ago
Also, peoples values may differ, but in the long run, there is no real triumph without principle.
heyboy56 3 years ago
heyboy - 1. Before FL & MI voters went to the polls the party told them their votes wouldn't count. AND Hillary backed that decision. Now that she's behind, & since she was smart (duplicitous) enough to stay on the ballots, she's "fighting for the voters." 2. For your information, YOU DON'T COUNT to the party leaders. Why else do they have the "superdelegates," which are able to completely override the popular vote?
These are reasons I left the party. The rest of you are living in denial.
NoGuff 3 years ago
Again: A # of things(FLA Rep, other factors) made this disaster, over which the voters had little/no control. Name-calling serves no purpose in solving this. Each knew the #s in these states, thus his move to ignore them(tho he ran ads seen there). Voters expected a fair solution. As it has been neck&neck all along, despite media bias, sup/dels otherwise couldn't "override". I have no illusions @ our lone "value" to DNC. With two(flawed) parties, I see no SENSIBLE option. No denial found there!
heyboy56 3 years ago
"Name-calling serves no purpose in solving this"
--Where in my message is there "name-calling?"
"With two(flawed) parties, I see no SENSIBLE option"
--So somehow this is also the Republicans' fault? How?
The only sensible option is to realize that the Democratic Party is full of liars & opportunists who will stab you in the back & swear it was a Republican who did it. You also have politicians who say one thing, then do another right in front of your faces & you never call them on it.
NoGuff 3 years ago
"Duplicitous" is namecalling. As are"liars, opportunists, & back...stab(sic)". Our 2 party system IS lacking, tho better than most. SENSIBLE option refers to working within this 2-party system. Most pols"say one, do other". No moral hi ground EITHER party there. My vid DOES call them on it. CREDIT to McCain@lobbyists/Hagee, Obama@Wright, Clinton@Doyle; tho all overdue. I don't impugn your choices. To better inform others, you might adopt a less strident tone. Spittle and foam do not points make!
heyboy56 3 years ago
"'Duplicitous' is namecalling. As are'liars, opportunists, & back...stab(sic)'"
--No they're not. "Asshole" & "shit-face" are examples of "name-calling." If someone lies & I call him a liar, thats not "name-calling." Please go back to gradeschool & relearn all of this.
"Our 2 party system IS lacking"
--The USA has 40+ parties.
"Most pols"say one, do other"."
--Thats why we need to elect people of honor & integrity.
"Spittle and foam do not points make"
--I do make good points, stridently.
NoGuff 3 years ago
Also, it takes you, me, all who will, to hold politicians' feet to the fire. That is the ONLY way to mold stateswomen and statesmen out of baser humans. Abraham Lincoln became a great statesman. Lyndon B. Johnson became a great statesman. Politicians maneuver for personal/constituency gain. Statesmen choose the greater good over personal/party cost. We should all pull TOGETHER, encourage one another, agree or not. Everett Dirksen(R) and Lyndon Johnson(D) did; so can we. ELSE, pols win/we lose!
heyboy56 3 years ago
"to hold politicians' feet to the fire"
--Agreed, but with the truth, & proper perspective.
"Lincoln became a great statesman"
--Because he ignored popular pressure, rightly so.
"Johnson became a great statesman"
--LBJ was a jackass who chose to run the Vietnam war from Washington instead of letting the military run it.
NoGuff 3 years ago
I hope to have respectful discussion with all who care to comment. I DO respect your right to hold your opinions. I will at this time, however, exercise my right to keep the tone of these discussions at a more civil level, after offering you the chance to moderate your choice of expression. I will leave your current comments posted, but future puerile remarks from you must go elsewhere. Sorry you couldn't seem to rise above the aforementioned juvenile "IKNOWYOUAREBUTWHATAMI?" sad level.
heyboy56 3 years ago
Final error on your part: Pres. Johnson(D) paid heed to Pres. Eisenhower(R), a MOST HIGHLY respected WW2 Command General, who in his last major Pres. speech warned against the influence "of the growing military-industrial complex" and its desire to make war an ongoing business. Johnson did his utmost to find advisors he could trust, to end the war once and for all. Which party had the greatest stake in war businesses, just like today? YOU might want to go back and relearn your basic history.
heyboy56 3 years ago
"Final error on your part: Pres. Johnson(D) paid heed"
"Johnson did his utmost to find advisors he could trust, to end the war once and for all"
"YOU might want to go back and relearn your basic history"
Actually you need to check your history books. Johnson was given a target priority list in Vietnam by commanders in the field. The Johnson Admin. ordered the military to start at the bottom of that list & work upward. No offense, but ow does that fit with ANY of your statements?
brianjcavanaugh 3 years ago
Actually YOU need to check YOUR history books. With Korea fresh, Cold War raging, Pres. Johnson attempted a carrot&stick approach to lead the VietCong to peace talks for the region. This originally included no bombing of Hanoi/Haiphong Harbor. This "target list" was part of the MILITARY strategy, not Johnson's doing. They had constant meetings re: this strategy. It failed. Search for Dr. Wayne Thompson, Jacob Van Staaveren, & AirForce Hist. Rsrch. Agency at Maxwell AF Base Montgomery Alabama.
heyboy56 3 years ago
(This to brianjcavanaugh, I apologize for tardy response!
heyboy56 3 years ago
Yes, the military produced a target list in order of priority. The Johnson Admin. told them to start at the bottom. This is what every single high ranking officer who was involved has said since the war ended. Every commanding officer, every pilot, even McNamara said it, McCain said it, Colin Powell said it. And you believe the opposite because of these two people? Come on.
brianjcavanaugh 3 years ago
And to gigglechickdotcom, THANKS! (LOL) Yours is my favorite comment so far!!! (Sorry so late in acknowledging you) {:~)
heyboy56 3 years ago
I personally believe that the FL and MI votes will be counted when Hillary concedes the nomination and the delegates will be able to attend the convention. But with the superdelegates behind Obama, it will be too late for Mrs. Clinton to take the nomination. Then the Dems will have to rally to squash John Bush McCain. If people try to push Hillary for 2012 by destroying Obama, you want to talk about a backlash vote! It will be ugly. No one wants another 4 years of this crap.
6thStreetProductions 3 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
check out my home page to see a link to my Hillary website/blog
AlessandroMachi 3 years ago
Yes, we must punish the other 48 states for being dumb enough to obey the rules and reward Florida and Michigan for being smart enough to break the rules.
Richardgwm 3 years ago
It is not about punish/reward. Neither Michigan nor Florida is a singular behemoth, bent on destroying downtown Tokyo. It is not even about Clinton/McCain/Obama. This is about people dying in Iraq, dying needing basic healthcare, losing their homes, starving, suffering...if the DNC screws up further than it has already, Obama, Clinton, or an as yet un-named 3rd could find themselves fighting a backlash swing vote like in Alabama as I mentioned. ( Watch this again.)
heyboy56 3 years ago
I think if thid had happened with the spread the repubs had between their candidates, none of the voters from either state would care. I had to be out of town when my state caucused and i am not crying about being disinfranchised.
granamica 3 years ago
You might want to Google "absentee balloting".
heyboy56 3 years ago
Thanks for letting me know about my other post. :) The state I live in doesn't count absentee votes in the democratic caucus. I sent it and left on a trip that had been arranged for awhile. I then found out that they only counted the people who showed up. That's okay because my absentee ballot will be counted in November. I am kinda sad I missed the caucus, though.
granamica 3 years ago
i like how you suggest the DNC is screwing you over WHEN YOU KNEW it wouldnt count when you voted. you were told it wouldnt. want to be mad? be mad at your state leaders. sorry hillary supporters, you cant change the rules when you want to. everybody signed a pledge agreeing it wouldnt count. where was all this dissent BEFORE the vote? oh yeah, that was before we all knew clinton lost.sorry.michigan and florida will get alot of attention in the GE.Obama is already reaching out and visiting both.
pezcore64 3 years ago
It is not about me. It is about the democratic (and Democratic Party) process. I do not care if you support persons or causes that I choose not to. Maybe you have something I need to know or learn. But shrill tone and personal attacks against a person or cause rarely wins friends and influences people. By the way, if you had paid attention, I'm from Alabama.
heyboy56 3 years ago
Let's change the rules after the game is over so Hillary can win!!!
Richardgwm 3 years ago
He's a KYLE! Florida and Michigan don't count because they did not follow the rules. Additionally, Obama wasn't even on the ballot. Hillary lost. Get over it. Even if she's getting the votes, she still won't win btw ...
eggnoggerino 3 years ago
Thank you! You speak for many Democrats across the nation, including here in CA. After being a Democrat for decades, I could no longer reconcile myself to their stance on FL & MI and reregistered as an independent. When the party that used to stand up for voting rights wises up and does so again, I'll reconsider. Not before. I salute you, sir.
lunacat1525 3 years ago
The elected officals of both states decided not to heed the party. The partial blame goes to those who voted for the people who made these decisions. The people who voted in the primaries in good faith were unimformed. Those who were informed sat out or voted down ticket and maybe marked their ballot without being misinformed that it would be counted. They knew the delegates wouldn't be seated
How can we count the will of these states accurately when only the ininformed are crying foul?
granamica 3 years ago
It would be great if the back-room partisan deal(s) of the DNC that brought us to this place were known by all. Then reasonable judgements could be made. I don't see this as a candidate or party issue as much as a moral and legal issue. And be honest, you know as well as I do that good, fair-minded people of all candidates, and every (or no) party are questioning this issue.
heyboy56 3 years ago
Heyboy, this is a sincere question. Please reply. How can the DNC fully and fairly count the vote from Michigan and Florida when all the candidates' names were not on the ballot in Michigan and they were not allowed to campaign in Florida? How is that fair? Also, if the votes are counted and Barack Obama still has the delegate lead, will you vote for Obama? Or, is it your intention to do whatever it takes to nominate Mrs. Clinton? Please reply. Thanks.
6thStreetProductions 3 years ago
As your site reveals a slant for Sen. Obama against SENATOR Clinton, I can only say that the DNC OBVIOUSLY engaged in "The Manchurian Candidate"-style shenanigans to arrive us here. I proudly support Sen. Clinton, as I believe her the more experienced and thus capable person to lead our government. Regardless, my feelings of betrayal and wrongful action by the DNC would be the same if I supported Obama, McCain, or Mortimer Snerd. All voters, every party, has a right to vote. That's Civics 101.
heyboy56 3 years ago
(this in reply to 6thStreetProductions)
heyboy56 3 years ago
Thank you for articulating how I feel.
bumblebzz 3 years ago
So unless the Democrat Party heeds your threats heyboy, you may not vote? OMG! Noooooo!
eelzen 3 years ago
I make no threat. I raise legitimate concern as regards DNC tomfoolery that may cost us YET ANOTHER critical election. And to paraphrase "Animal House" 's Dean Wormer, "Snide, catty, and pointless is no way to go through life, son."
heyboy56 3 years ago
(this in reply to eelzen re: OMG)
heyboy56 3 years ago
Yes, we women and many men by and large will vote for anyone but Obama. America faces the most difficult times in our nation and we don't want, need, or can we handle a controversial, questionable, rookie to lead "US" into these, the most critical times of any Presidency to date. Go Hillary, and please far left wing, wake up!!! Comparing the bases of support Clinton is far and away the best candidate for the Democrats in the fall. Otherwise, we lose again!!!
moblou 3 years ago
The news media in this country is a joke and it is sad that you have to resort to the BBC for the real new. MI and Fl could have been resolved months ago but Obama wanted no part of a revote because he know he will lose
mikesadick 3 years ago
Right on point(s)! If the DNC had not attempted to "gerrymander" this process, there would not be the chance that we can seriously lose this election. I bear no ill will towards Sen. Obama or his supporters. If he were to become the Dem nominee, I might have to support him, given the sickening alternative. Why do they, then, and very obviously most all of the press, appear to bear such Rove-ish hatred for Sen. Clinton?
heyboy56 3 years ago
(this in concurrence with mikesadick re: "news media...a joke")
heyboy56 3 years ago
heyboy, you outted me as an Obama supporter. Oh well, I guess people had to know at some point. Anyway, you didn't answer my question. How is it fair to count the FL and MI vote when Obama wasn't on the ballot in MI and didn't campaign in FL? It's just not fair. People must have known that it wasn't going to count when they couldn't vote for Obama in MI and nobody visited FL. Wouldn't that tip them off that their ballots wouldn't count? You know you are on the wrong side of this issue.
6thStreetProductions 3 years ago
The answer, as anyone should know, is that Obama chose not to have his name on the Michigan ballot, so it's his fault he got no votes there. Neither he nor Hillary were allowed to campaign in Florida, but he played an end-around by putting a commercial on CNN, which played in Florida as well as the rest of the country, so HE broke the rules by campaigning there. Even so, Hillary won the state. Why aren't you campaigning against making Florida Dems pay for something Republicans forced on them?
Shirleyione 3 years ago
The Dems had their chance to campaign against the Republicans. I don't know why they didn't fight it last year. It's FL and MI fault for allowing this to happen. The problem is that Hillary is trying to change the rules in the middle of the game. We all know this is unethical. She can't claim votes that were obtained illegally. She said it herself. "We all know MI and FL won't mean anything." Please stop pushing this sour grapes argument. It was a fair race and she lost. Unity, soon.
6thStreetProductions 3 years ago
Actually, they did campaign against it, they tried to vote down the bill that moved the primaries up, and were unable to do it because they didn't have the numbers. The party tried to stop it and couldn't, because the Republicans were determined to make it happen. Howard Dean and the DNC then made the stupid decision to penalize the Dems for voting! All votes should be counted, and all delegates should be seated at teh convention.
Shirleyione 3 years ago
That should be motivation for them to elect democrats into the state legislature. Perhaps that was the goal all along. Pissing off FL voters should motivate them to flip their govt. Not a bad idea.
6thStreetProductions 3 years ago
Thank you Shirley! Both sides have played politics, that is the nature of the game. Again, this is my concern. Republicans, with decent, if misguided(my opinion) Sen. McCain, stand a VERY GOOD chance of winning if the Democrats implode from internecine warfare.
heyboy56 3 years ago
I'm not so cynical as to believe that, heyboy. We always come together in the end. I can't help wondering where all the people hollering for Hillary to pull out now were when SHE looked like the sure winner. No one called for Edwards, Obama, Richardson, or any of the others to bow out gracefully and let her have it in order to further party unity. Only when it's Obama leading do the cries come out. One wonders why....
Shirleyione 3 years ago
I sincerely pray you are right @ uniting. I STRENUOUSLY second your question. Where were all these "we aren't biased, we just want the good of the party" voices then? Wondering about this leads to some sad, disturbing conclusions. Just think what an experienced Pres. Clinton and learning Vice-Pres. Obama could do for the next 16 years & beyond! As I have expressed elsewhere, it was the more experienced Lyndon Johnson who nearly equaled FDR with Great Society & Civil RIghts laws, not JFK.
heyboy56 3 years ago
I couldn't agree more. I think a Clinton/Obama ticket would be unbeatable, and would stand the best chance of getting us back where we should be. I honestly believe there is something out there on Obama that the Rovians know about, have secreted away, and will cheerfully pull out in the general election. I don't believe Obama stands a real chance against them. Clinton has no skeletons left in her closet, which is why they are so afraid to run against her.
Shirleyione 3 years ago
You are right. At this point, I do not question Obama's integrity. He may in youth, like us all, have made choices that he wouldn't do again, people he befriended (like Rezko) may have betrayed him by their actions. I'm not as worried about the real problems of either person as I am the Atwater/Rove mantra "If I have to lie, cheat, steal, or kill, I, no nor any of my party, will ever lose an election again, as God is my witness!" (apologies to Scarlett and Margaret Mitchell) Swiftboat, anyone?
heyboy56 3 years ago
Also, Clinton has never postured as a runaway lead/unstoppable candidate. This has been a dead heat run from early on, no one far & away ahead (like McCain for Rep). I have no doubt we will win when WE ALL get together, I just know from the Baxley-Graddick brawl in Alabama, and the stupefying results of both the 2000 & 2004 elections(?!?!?!?) that the seemingly preposterous can occur when stupid leaders do stupid things.
heyboy56 3 years ago
As you know I have innumerable reasons for opposing Mrs. Clinton's candidacy, but to answer your question...the reason people appear to bear such Rove-ish hatred for Mrs. Clinton is because she uses Rove tactics in her campaign. And it is a fact that Rove is a good friend of the Clintons. I was stunned to learn this when it was mentioned on the Bill O' show. Rove agreed when Bill pointed to this fact. Being from Alabama you should know that if you sleep with dogs you wake up with fleas.
6thStreetProductions 3 years ago
I'm glad you have reasons to support Sen. Obama, and oppose Sen. Clinton. But it belittles our discourse when you, I, or anyone else uses childish (or even hateful) tactics of the Pee-Wee Herman "IKNOWYOUAREBUTWHATAMI?" school. He is Senator Obama, NOT "OSAMA/boy/that muslim". She is Senator Clinton, NOT "Bitch/hitlery/that C**t". Nor is she simply Mrs. They are Senators and deserve that respect. By the way, know your enemies is wise counsel, but FoxNews is hardly a bastion of "fair&balanced"!
heyboy56 3 years ago
point taken on the Sen. Clinton issue, but what's with the Fox News thing? You gotta know that I don't subscribe to Fox's propaganda.
Also, as for the redneck reference. I'm originally from NC. It's one of those I can call my family redneck but you can't call my family redneck. I thought fellow southerners share similar expressions.
Cheers!
6thStreetProductions 3 years ago
6th, I will now use a Pee-Wee-ism myself. (LOL) The Fox "Noise" Channel has apparent STROOOOOOOOOOONG bias that to many, myself included, sets it askew from any other "legitimate" news source. In my opinion, it is much more from the "700club/JackVanImpePresents/TASS News(old USSR)/drink you koolaid because Jim Jones said so" ilk than from the "check your sources three times, and their sources five!" school of journalism. I want my news from people I do and DON'T like, not just a biased screed.
heyboy56 3 years ago
Agreed.
I only imbibe to develop my own arguments against the enemy.
Sean Hannity is such a whiny puss! And, Colmes isn't much of a liberal strongman. But, if I didn't watch, I'd be lacking in right wing crackpot propaganda.
6thStreetProductions 3 years ago
Very true! I love how Al Franken refers to HANNITY & colmes! "You're a better man than I am, Gunga Din!" as you must have a stronger stomach than mine. I'm only 51, but the last 3 or so decades of nastiness in politics has left me somewhat weary. But that is why I have spoken out. (See my other video.) I am a yellow-dog Dem who does not want us to lose the hordes of fresh strong Dems coming in, or the election this fall. Pogo said "We have met the enemy, and he is us." I hope this isn't us now.
heyboy56 3 years ago
Oh and 6th, as to your remark about my being from Alabama "sleep w/dogs wake/w fleas", I refer you to Woody Harrelson on WILL & GRACE: "Oh, I get it. Just like all southerners are rednecks and all gay men are witty; just shows you how wrong those stereotypes can be!"
heyboy56 3 years ago
heyboy56, Even Obama agrees that FL and MI should be counted. My only question is, why did FL and MI hold their primaries early in the first place? They knew the consequences. When the DNC upholds it's own rules, then everyone's angry? If FL and MI are let off the hook, what does that say to other states? They will also break primary rules and expect no consequences. I think their delegates should be seated, but I can see the other side of this issue too.
Velayasha 3 years ago
As you, I see more than/single issue of when STATES/party officials chose to set respective primaries. In Florida a Rep. Gov. & Rep. majority(typical of both parties) bound the Dem. primary to other issues(the notorious voting machines and such). Whether for expediency in that legislature, or political gaming I don't know, however both parties are guilty of this type maneuver. Michigan is a little muddier(circumstances). I still fear the damage to Dem. credibility this fall and forward.
heyboy56 3 years ago
garagemanib -
I don't think so! Hold onto your drawers!
MLWriter8 3 years ago
bbuc1, your uninformed ignorance is showing. It was a Democrat that introduced the bill. The bill passed 115 to 1. The Democrats supported it. Read something and don't depend upon what Clintonistas tell you.
There is even a video of the Democrats yucking it up about a bogus attempt (that they all voted against) to stop the move of the primary date.
Xyxox 3 years ago
I know all about that- A Freshman legislator was put up to propose it, and the GOP leadership wouldn't remove that rider on the date when requested (spanking Dean). I also know the date issue wasn't viewed as important enough to scuttle the greater bill, which got the paperless voting machines kicked out of every county in the Florida. Between the two issues, the voting machines were (and still are) far more important.
bbuc1 3 years ago
Nice job HeyBoy56- just remember- by their own rules they should seat 50% of the delegates in FL and MI. Whether or not it's the Mutha or the Brotha I don't personally mind... I'd vote for a yellow dog before I'd vote for a Repugnican... they are both bullies & cowards- business, politics. They admire strength over what's right. People who want to be "strong" need to understand the strongest people fight for what's right... like against Iraq war, for fairly counted elections, etc.
bbuc1 3 years ago
Dear Obama supporters, you may be right. Maybe Clinton can't catch up even if the votes are counted. Why are you so dead set against them counting then? Secondly, it is my understanding that the super delagates are supposed to base their votes on what they believe is the good of the party. That is the RULE that you were so against. Thirdly, Obama needs all the democratic votes in the GE. People are more likely to vote for him if they feel he has truly won the majority vote.
dalanow 3 years ago 5
well said!
drdanfl 3 years ago
GODWIN'S LAW!
Debate was over as soon as you brought up Nazism.
IF you want to blame somebody, blame the fools in the state parties of Florida and Michigan. They knew the consequences for their actions and they chose to leapfrog the primary dates anyway, so Florida and Michigan got exactly what they deserved.
Xyxox 3 years ago
Xyxox- you pompous ass... it was the Republicans in Florida who were responsible for forcing the early primary date on the state. And even then it wasn't that malicious... Hillary was expected to be the nominee and the Repugs wanted to spank Dean... just that simple. And btw, the Repugs themselves are very much like Nazis... check out the definitions of facism/nazism on Google... they're in attempted lockstep with Nazis... from corporatism to militarism to info control of media, etc., etc.
bbuc1 3 years ago
Thank you for speaking out against this outrage. Who ever could have imagined that Howard Dean would be the new Katherine Harris? It's so tempting just to stay home this fall.
progressiveguy2007 3 years ago 5
This comment has received too many negative votes show
They'll be seated, and it won't change a thing. Obama will be our nominee.
garbagemanlb 3 years ago
go back and stick your head in one of your garbage cans. The country doesn't need people like you!
hillaryscott35 3 years ago
Absolutely brilliant. Thank You!
cleffnote 3 years ago
Thank you. Don't forget that the corp-consolidated media sold the American public Bu$h over Gore, over Kerry. Now they are selling Obama until Maverick McCain is it, and then it will be Rezko and Wright non-stop. As investigative reporter Elizabeth Pringle writes in her articles about Obama... "A fifth grader with access to the internet could connect the dots."
Why can't the Democratic leadership?
Oh, well, Obama is going to crown himself this Tuesday (in Iowa?). Mission Accomplished.
innovators111 3 years ago
Thank you SO VERY much for speaking up and speaking out. I agree with you 100%.
iaquino22 3 years ago
Violated Godwin's law. FAIL.
dadragonpup 3 years ago
heyboy, THANK YOU - brilliantly stated!
soundsong 3 years ago
I cannot say how grateful I am for your courage and forthrightness, sir. Thank you for speaking out, I am with you 100%! We will not let them do this to our party!
DukatSG1 3 years ago
Thank you. It means so much to me to see Democrats from across the country fight for my, my family, my friends, and my neighbors right to participate in our government.
I've been enthusiastic about government and politics since I was 16. For the first time in my adult life, I am seriously considering sitting out this November. I just never thought it would be my own party that brought me to this point.
Thank you again for your words and your work to right this wrong.
ForceStrong 3 years ago
HeyBoy,
Outstanding job! I completely agree with what you said. Most of all how, if the Democratic Party disenfranchises Florida and Michigan voters, it will truly be the "death knell" of the Party.
Thank you for your courage in speaking out! There are tens of thousands, if not millions of us, who you are speaking for!
Darrow66 3 years ago
Well spoken Hellboy...
Thank you
duck1414 3 years ago
Thank you for your thoughtful and articulate plea. Let's hope it doesn't fall on deaf ears!
JuliaB1955 3 years ago
WOW! ... 'nuff said
Kissntel 3 years ago
Thank you for this much needed video. I live in California, but I stand with every voter in Florida and Michigan whose votes are being dismissed by this party. The "rules" do not state anything about not counting the votes; the rules apply to the delegates (and the rules call for stripping 50%, not 100%). This reeks of deceit and manipulation and the voters will speak in droves in November if this is not rectified now.
heyyogi 3 years ago
Donna Brazile recently wrote in an email,
"Message to base, Stay Home!"
I believe the resurgence of voters in this election has frightened the DNC leadership.
I believe they want to return to low voter turnout, that way they can better manipulate elections.
williamj41 3 years ago
Bravo!
nangerb 3 years ago
Wonderfully put - feel the same! Thank You!
luvnhugs 3 years ago
Thank You. You said it!
AndruLu 3 years ago
platanoman, she will get more popular votes and hopefully she will get enough superdelegates to get nominated. she was always welcome to have obama as her VP but the arrogant obama wants everything now without actually demonstrating that he is capable of been the president.
sgkrishnan99 3 years ago 2
Hellboy, please get inform. Even if FL and MI is counted, she will still lose. They will probably count FL and MI.
platanoman 3 years ago
This is not just about winning. You don't see to understand this is about our right to have our votes counted, no matter the winner! We support Hillary because she is the only candidate supporting our right to have our vote counted!
lizben08 3 years ago 2
Not so - you need to read some unbiased sources. If Fl and MI were seated she pulls ahead (go look at the numbers). Even if only Florida is seated she within reach of Obama and it is a statistical dead heat. When the superdelegates vote, they have an obligation to vote for the good of the party. It is clear that Obama can't beat McCain in November. The only sane option is that they vote for Hillary. This is far from over, and the media and Dean should be ashamed of themselves.
GreenSangha 3 years ago
He will still have a lead over 100 pledge delegates He will still have a lead. And he's inching closer to the nomination. Nothing is going to change
platanoman 3 years ago
Then we can expect you to add your voice to the chorus demanding the DNC honor the Democrats of my state of FL as well as Michigan and seat their delegates according to their vote totals?
After all, it's truly noblest to finally agree to count all votes for your opponent only when you're totally confident the votes won't help them anyway. The greatest display of democracy, EVAR!
ForceStrong 3 years ago
Um do you want the votes to be counted or what? They are going to be seated. It's not going to change anything. It was never going to change his insurmountable delegate lead.
platanoman 3 years ago
lmao
Too stupid to know when you're being insulted.
ForceStrong 3 years ago
you rock!
gigglechickdotcom 3 years ago
Well said! Thank you for voicing my feelings so well.
splashy9 3 years ago
Thank you for your eloquence, passion, and intelligence. They will reap what they sow, but we will all pay the consequences.
mriles98103 3 years ago 4
heyboy56 ...Thanks for the video...seems like the Democrats would have learned by now(2000 2004)...Yes... i think it's time for a new democratic party(INDEPENDANT)...Remember..."We The People"... "United We Stand Devided We Fall" ... Time to Act is ....NOW...
slient1971 3 years ago 2
heyboy, plenty of blogs including mine raise hell on this issue all the time, don't feel you're alone in the fight. check out noquarter (dot) com too, he's an ex cia agent totally behind Hill and the nonsense that is the obama phenom :)
bb10house 3 years ago 2
Heyboy56,
If Hillary wishes to run as a Democrat, then she has to abide by the Democratic party rules. The rules are there for a reason and it's not fair for any candidate to try to change them after the fact.
If she doesn't like the rules set in place by the DNC then she should run as an independent.
That, I believe, is the bottom line.
Right here --> _____
themythicalcreature 3 years ago
I refer you to the comments posted by WHTT, to wit: "He lost Florida. He took his name off Michigan's ballot to game the system." Senator Clinton questioned the DNC ruling to begin with, unprecedented vis-a-vis the Party's rules, and the wisdom(?!?) and legality of disenfranchising two whole states (hers, natch) who spent taxpayer $ to hold what those states believed to be legitimate elections. If he can't abide by the prior uncontested rules...
THAT IS the bottom line!
heyboy56 3 years ago
Heyboy, you are just plain wrong when you say that Hillary contested the DNC's ruling that FL and MI would not count. Hillary put out a memo stating that she would abide by the DNC rules as they were stated prior to the start of the primaries and she is quoted (you can find it on youtube) saying that "everyone knows that MI will not count." You are just flat out wrong.
6thStreetProductions 3 years ago
6th, You accuse me of "being...wrong". Either you misread my reply "THAT IS the bottom line!"(sloppy reading habits), or you purposefully and deceitfully attempt to put words in my mouth that I never said. I said, "Sen. Clinton QUESTIONED the DNC ruling to begin with", as regards disallowing ANYONEs vote(s). Considering the high bias of coverage by the media, it is no surprise that a LAZY skim would reveal LITTLE that Sen. Clinton has said on ANY subject. She did question it. I am not wrong.
heyboy56 3 years ago
okay, so i must have missed that, but my point is that you are wrong to want to count the FL and MI vote as legitimate. They are not and it sucks that they were punished for breaking the DNC rules but rules are rules for a reason. You can't break them and not expect repercussions.
6thStreetProductions 3 years ago
# I want all voters to be counted and respected.
# I want FL and MI delegations counted.
# I want Donna Brazile and DNC to stop putting their thumb on the scales for Obama and against Clinton.
# I want the Rules and Bylaws Committee to waive the rules for FL and MI and seat all delegates as voted on without any "gifts" to Obama. He lost Florida. He took his name off Michigan's ballot to game the system.
WHTT 3 years ago 3
Wow...it's nice to see a good oral bitch slapping. Trust the Neo-Liberals deserve it.
IllWillForYou 3 years ago 2
Thank you for this video. As you so aptly said to the DNC leadership: "Please don't destroy our party. Please do what is right!"
I totally agree with you and will not remain a Democrat if Michigan and Florida delegates are not seated according to the votes cast in good faith by the people in these states.
clarkmom2 3 years ago 7
Count FL and MI fully. Obama has had the chance to agree to a re vote so many times and has blocked democracy. Otherwise there will be indeed be 10's of millions of Americans who will defect from the party over this shameless junta.
canthemum 3 years ago 6
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Let's review the facts: In 2007, Michigan and Florida, in direct violation of party rules, scheduled their votes with the full knowledge that the Democratic Party would not recognize their results.
The Democratic candidates did not campaign in either state, and only Clinton was on the Michigan ballot.
Bottom line: If you break the rules, you need to deal with the consequences.
themythicalcreature 3 years ago
BOTTOM LINE: Howard Dean and his co-imbecile minions' arbitrary creation of this disaster (PARTY RULES-NOT LAW, by the way) in no way negates the "good-faith belief" of the voters in each state that this issue would be REASONABLY resolved long before now! That both candidates refrained from Florida's ballot, and Obama from Michigan's was the result of him not wasting time where he couldn't win, and both conserving their resources. That my dear mythicalcreature, IS THE BOTTOM LINE!!!!!
heyboy56 3 years ago
you have your info soooooo wrong and incorrect themythicalcreature that there's no space here to go into the details, you really don't have a clue on the facts of what went down in mich and fla.
bb10house 3 years ago
Excellent - Thank you. You are 100% correct. BRAVO. I thank you for your passion.
contradictioncounter 3 years ago 5
send this video to the May 31st meeting of the DNC Rules Committee with someone who is going! You speak for millions of us!
bayareavoter 3 years ago 7
i've seen (sadly) an email donna brazile sent to some ppl who sent her very cordial but serious letters for their concern on how Hill's being disenfranchised- sadly donna sent back a really nasty email to these ppl, she's clearly and sadly behind obama.
bb10house 3 years ago 2
Bravo, and thank you for adding your rational and discerning voice to this issue. I wish everyone, especially the DNC, could see this video.
inversicolor 3 years ago 6
they can! simply send it to them, google dnc- i send emails to howard dean and his cronies off and on. you can easily find the phone # to the dnc online too.
bb10house 3 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
ClinTURDmites are far worse than cockroaches & much more annoying and filthy! They are stubborn and have little itsy bitsy tiny weenie brains....and are just as obnoxious as Hitlery & her hard drinking hasbeen husband!!
The ClinTURDs wanted to prance right back into the White House again.....oops! It totally backfired on this corrupt and murderous fugly couple! hehehe!!! Karma is a BITCH and so is Hitlery!!!!!!!
chuckinla 3 years ago
Great job. MI and FL must be counted and Hillary must be our nominee. She offers the greatest hope for America and will be the greatest president we have ever known.
seattlegonz 3 years ago 6
Good for you sir. I applaud your courage and your message. God bless you and all you love.
WHTT 3 years ago 5
i am standing and applauding as well!!!!!
Thank you for puting into words what so many of us have felt throughout the elections!
You moved me and I hope you know that there are millions of people like us that feel the same way!!!!
Denitzaart 3 years ago 5
HERE! HERE! You can't see me but i am standing and applauding....very, very well said. We are not the one walking away from our principals...the DNC leadership is walking away from us. To ever ever consider for a moment not counting any vote, any where, is inexcusable, and unDemocratic. I am astonished everyday that this is even possible by my beloved party. We have, apparently, learned nothing in these last eight years. And we ame sooooo close to saving our country, just to have it stolen away.
Jinjerella 3 years ago 6
Wonderful video! Very well thought out, and very well spoken! And you're right - you do represent tens of millions of us.
barrington41 3 years ago 7