any selfproclaiming book without evidence is just that. funny how they like to use the word' truth'. if the quran is the truth and so full of "scientific proofs" as many muslims say, whats next? shouldnt the quran be able to forecast the next big scientific discovery? of course not. reverse engineering prophecy is an old dirty trick done by many cults. the word play and desperate twisting is a joke
Arguing with religious folks is like arguing with a child who is not old enough to reason, it makes me very sad and hopeless about the future of the human race !!
ya got to smoke a lot of dope for the supernatural to appear to you....LOL holy smoke didn`t you ever watch the movie up in smoke? hey..thanks! . great review and I`m sure the people in the nut house can tell ya plenty of great cloud stories......believe me I know for exsperience.
FOOL!!! Allah is the only true God! And I have proof. This one morning I was eating with Akbar and low and behold, Allah's name was right there in my alphabet cereal. Clearly, this proves conclusively that Allah is part of this complete breakfast.
"god has locked your heart from the acceptance of truth. God chooses whom he wills to guide to the straight path"
Than this life is obviously not a fair test, if your god has already riged it so that only the people HE wants pass it. What is the point of this test than?
If a teacher on purpose failes a student by tricking the student, does that sound like a just and fair teacher to you?
I stopped watching when I saw the shirt you are wearing. "Jesus Never Existed" is a pretty bold (albeit currently popular) statement, especially if you've actually done your research.
@stevenhorr It sounds like you need a basic course in logic. You just admitted that you saw something that was completely beside the point of this video and decided that whatever is in this video must be wrong and there's no need to even watch it to come to that conclusion.
@stevenhorr Every "eye witness" account of the life and times of Jesus Christ is suspect. All first person accounts were from his followers. Second and third person accounts (they heard about it from someone else) can be put into the same category as Joseph Smith (Mormons) and his magical golden plates given to him by Moroni that he couldn't show anyone, but that everyone should just take his word that they existed. All secular accounts (non followers) never met Jesus and were
@Medewtysenu given well after the death of Jesus, (such as the account given by Josephus). Interestingly enough the life of Jesus has many things in common with popular pagan beliefs of the times, Horus and Mithra to name just two. The God-man mythos is quite common in paganism. Judaism on the other hand totally refutes the Jesus was the Messiah idea and their writings have remained unchanged versus the many NT translations and versions. Google Occam's Razor. for more info.
Wow, I didn't think my offhand comment would elicit such a response. Nowhere in my comment did I say that Jesus in fact existed. I said that saying he did not exist is a bold and fashionable statement. Personally, based on all of the evidence I've investigated, I'd say he most likely did exist. But ultimately who can say for certain? I'm also quite familiar with the Horus and Mithra comparisons, as well as Occam's Razor. But thanks for taking the time to educate me! :)
BS! MiddleEast ALWAYS at war! Mohammad violent SINFUL cult Murderer!Jesus/Healed/Blessed/Peace/Salvation/GOD! All MUSLIMS who converted to Christianity ARE HAPPY & FREE OF ABUSE & MISERY Islam leaders are killing you! Christians LOVE YOU! PLEASE accept JESUS CHRIST as your SAVIOR John 3:16 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him! REBEL & ACCEPT JESUS! Be FREE of ISLAM LIES Visit wlix radio.com
The whole idea of miracles is that they are blatantly different from reality, otherwise they wouldnt be proving anything, theyd just be rare occurences that could happen anytime. If you dont believe in them, there are other arguments to why Muhammad (pbuh) is a messenger. He had the Quran, which is written in extremely simple but rich language that clearly shows it was not written by humans, and it even says that if you doubt the authenticity of the Quran, just try writing a chapter of it.
I'm sorry, but i have to criticize you here heavily. You can't equate the Qu'ran and the bible that way, because Islam has more than the qu'ran only, it has the huge amounts of hadithes, which comprise a lot of supposed knowledge about Mohammed, from which a lot of adding interpretations come from. Also there are the tafsirs, the commentaries of scholars. So it's dishonest to compare qu'ran and bible as equals, because it's not intended that way.
I am gonna be rude now and arrogant and excuse myself from this discussion. You take pieces from a whole but most important, you don't seem to have passion and insight in what you read. You fail to recognize patherns. You are not discussing recipes here so you can't judge piece on themselves. May God show you the path ( after you are done bitching everything ;) )
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
Islam is THE truth because YOUR !! bible says so! The name of the noble guy who you think you can mock, is written in the Torah AND bible! Is this good enough?
@tchaikovsky1979 My Bible? No, I don't think so. I'm not a Christian. But you think their Bible says Islam is the truth and somehow Christians have been missing that for 2000 years?
I wish they have been missing it!! That could save some understanding
but they just ignore it!! they say Yes so there is the name Muhammed in the bible but we re not going to aknowledge it!! why not throw the bible away if you choose what to aknowledge from it and what not??
Christians are sooo frustrated that they have the name of The Muslim prophet in their book, they wish it wasnt there...but it is!! so now what?
Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) is mentioned by name in the Song of Solomon chapter 5 verse 16:"Hikko Mamittakim we kullo Muhammadim Zehdoodeh wa Zehraee Bayna Jerusalem."
@tchaikovsky1979 "His mouth is most sweet: yea, he is altogether lovely. This is my beloved, and this is my friend, O daughters of Jerusalem." is the translation - and so? what is your point? What does it prove? that there was some guy called mohhammed with nice pert lips....and...?
No he wasn't. Would have been odd to have seen that, since Muslims didn't make THEIR myths up until 500 years AFTER Jesus, who came thousands of years AFTER Solomon. Face it dude...it's all crap.
@tchaikovsky1979 ahh i think your talking about deuteronomy 18:18 where moses said he would rise up a prophet like him,and in some wierd way yous tought he ment muhammed,but jesus put that one to bed when he said he was that prophet shot down but answer me this why are u listening to the bible now when muslims claim its bollix lol and corupt,wasnt corupted enough for muhammed to put his own name in it that could of done the job for him lol yous muslims are a bad joke gone wrong.
@23421432143 I don't think he gives a flying fuck to be honest mate. (god) He's probably sitting up somewhere laughing at all of the religious folk who can't recognize a man-made fairy tale when they see one. We might as well start worshipping harry potter! why? because there's a book written about him! therefore it must be true! that's religious logic right there.
When i think of Christians and Muslims. I think of Republicans and Democrats. Two enormous piles of shit screaming that THEY are less putrescent than the other.
In other words, they're two sides of the same coin at the bottom of the intellectual ladder. Much like the mentally ill inmates that DeistPaladin mentioned.
I can easily refute your questions in proper Islamic answers that make logical sense, but you would get bored of my writing. I don not have any camera to reply via video or else the matter would have been resolved on the spot and your veil of ignorance due to lack of knowledge of authentic Islam would be removed. Even lots of muslims are ignorant of their religion. Know that you will never learn Islam thru muslims actions but rather thru studying Islam. Islam is Peace and the Truth.
@byteresistor Good Question. In Arabic language, some words are derived from one word or even two words. Islam comes from two root words; Aslamah and Salamah. They mean Peace and Submission. So the more, we submit, the more Peace we have and only a practicing Muslim truely feels this peace. I didnt want to overwhelm all this info in a small reply, so i couldnt include that earlier. Like I said, Muslims SUBMIT to the will of Allah (God).
@byteresistor Thats your opinion. we are under certain limitations, you cannot deny that. Try to stop breathing, eating, sleeping, etc. All proof of God to show we are weak & supported by something greater, dependent upon Him. We are weak and slaves of what some call "nature". But Nature is actually is God's work, Nature could not just exist. Why dont u question that? We submit without realizing and without will. Or else then stop eating and say u hate to submit. God is not authority on earth.
@TheTruthseeka "Try to stop breathing, eating, sleeping, etc. All proof of God"
One of the most idiotic reasons for gods existence I have ever heard. And I've heard some pretty stupid stuff over the years.
"Nature could not just exist. Why dont u question that?"
Nature could not just exist but god can? A god which would be even more complex than the thing you're trying to explain with it. Why don't YOU question that?
@byteresistor The proof for God lays in His holy books and Messengers, but you have already regarded the Quran as False. The Bible is clearly contradictory and contains errors, but that doesnt mean Quran is same way. Nature was a way to tell you that even if you dont believ in Quran, Gods words, then there is still logicsal proofs for Gods existence. God is not complicated and is clearly stated by the way He describes Himself in Quran. God is complicated to you cuz u dont read Quran
@byteresistor In the name of God, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.
Say: He is Allah, the One and Only! Allah, the Eternal, Absolute; He begetteth not nor is He begotten. And there is none like unto Him. Quran Chapter 112.
Soon We will show them our signs in the (farthest) regions (of the earth), and in their own souls, until it becomes manifest to them that this is the Truth. Is it not enough that thy Lord doth witness all things?"
No gaps for God thats your perspective due to lack of knowledge. No circular reasoning rather derived from Quran: “These are they
whom Allah guided, so follow their guidance. Say: I ask you
not for any reward for it. It is naught but a Reminder to the
nations” (6:91).
I hate to use logic when I have God's words, rather i used logic for your sake. Anyways, you wanna deny all this truth. I asked you so many questions, for example then whats nature, purpose of life, etc. no answers
@TheTruthseeka Nature = animals, plants etc. purpose of life = grow up, get a job, work your ass off for 75% of your life, reproduce, die, become fertilizer for a tree, repeat.
Before you spit some rubbish my way about "God being the creator of the world, its inhabitants, and all that assorted lunacy. But since you insist on using this retarded subsitute for logic. I shall do the same. God created everything right? Well what the hell created god? Answer me that you zealot nutjob
@TheRavic23 First off, you refer using profain terminology because you cant debunk the truth and have to resort to lower methods. I will not respond to people who have no life and just say stupid things. Second off, why do you work? to eat and have shelter, but what if you already have that? so no purpose? to make trees grow? then why should i even work, i should just die now. Thirdly, everything is created by God because it BEGINS to exist but God has no beginning/end therefore no creator.
@TheTruthseeka Oh so in other words you can't prove god exists? At all? And for the last time, quoting scripture to prove that scripture is true is circular reasoning like byteresistor said, It's like writing a fictional novel and using passaged in the novel to prove it 2 b true We CAN debunk your faith, we CANNOT, however, prove or disprove the existance of god. There are plenty of videos on youtube where ppl offer completely logical and proven arguments against holy scripture
@TheRavic23 I challenge you to bring me ONE proof that the Quran is fake, contradictory, not true, etc. I said ONE, not two three, or even four, but one. Quran is not regular book. how does an illiterate man come up with numerous scientific miracles hundreds sometimes a thousand years before science even discovered them. Bring me proof if you are truthful and not just stating empty claims, which anybody can do.
@byteresistor Wake up. God already refuted you thru this verse. think about it. “And when My servants ask thee concerning
Me, surely I am nigh. I answer the prayer of the
suppliant when he calls on Me, so they should hear
My call and believe in Me that they may walk in the
right way” (2:186). So you are obviously gonna brush it off, like it doesnt say anything. Have a happy life. I dont want to waste my time and your time argueing if you dont want to make any conclusions/ just argue
So prove to me how nature came about. things dont come from nothing, if so, then i can get a jar and then over time, all of a sudden life or "nature" will create a whole earth and creatures of all kinds. Science states that nature exists, but they dont know why. God is only answer. You make no sense and have baseless points and just want to deny the truth. Quran says there will be people who deny truth and most of humans will be ungrateful. Truth is clear. if you want to deny, feel free.
@TheRavic23 I wanna make it clear: im not here to argue and if u think so, maybe i should stop typing. but rather I speak of Holy book from God sent by Him, the One God, only being worthy of worship, to mankind. Allah says: "Worship Allâh! You have no other Ilâh (God) but Him." Al-A'raf 7:59 God further says: "I have only created Jinns (spirits) and men that they may worship Me; no support do I require from them nor do I require that they should feed Me." (Surah: 51-56-57)
@TheRavic23 I'm inviting you to the untouched religion, thats a complete way of life, sent from God. If you are interested in learning more, i can assist from the two authentic untouched sources in Islam" Quran and Hadith(sayings, actions, approvals of Prophet). If you think this is not for you, thats fine, but know that 9.5 times out of 10, people know of a distorted version of Islam, and do not know the truth. Its all about One God and not associating partners with Him i.e. Jesus, monkeys etc
@TheRavic23 My anthropology teacher stated that if someone is looking for truth that her class is not the place. Science just says with the given information, this is what we have. Science even changes. they used to say earth was flat and guess what, muslims were saying it was round back in the day but they didnt believe them. Quran said so before science.
@TheTruthseeka Actually, your so-called prophet believed that there were 7 earths. one earth stacked on top of another one, and that it would take 500 years to move from one earth to the next. Sounds pretty flat to me. Quran 71:19 "and Allah has made the earth for you as a carpet spread out"
@TheRavic23 79:30 He made the earth egg-shaped. } You say Islam says Earth is flat, but the Quran says otherwise. You misinterpreted the other verse 71:19. Allah gave an example, the common practi9ce of Arabs at that time, linguistically, and is not the Earth like a carpet, the grasses layed out, like carpet, and roads spread out i.e. freeways going this way that way. The Quran was commentated by the Quran and you do not know its context. the Prophet did.
@TheTruthseeka But this isn't true. It turns out that dahaha does not mean the shape of an ostrich egg, but rather the action of the ostrich spreading out the ground and flattening it when it hides it's eggs. So this is yet another indication of spreading out and flattening. For the record I'm assuming you're referring to the arabic word dahaha when you talk about an egg-shaped earth.
@TheRavic23 In regards the seven earths. Prophet Muhamad stated that there are seven earths as in seven earth like planets in the universe. whats hard to believe. astronauts looking. This can neither be proved or disproved. but there is also a theory on this by nonMuslims scientists called level 2 multiverse. then also Prophet taught us there are seven layers of Earth, which is exactly what science claims. I wouldve attached link but i dont know how. look up layers of earth. How r u gonna deny?
So read the Quran and ask an informed Muslim, not someone who has an agenda, or even ask me. We do not blind follow rather Islam makes logocal sense and whats purpose of life without worshipping God or knowing his existence. If I told you theres beautiful well arranged mansion in middle of desert came up by chance, you would laugh at me. what about world and celestial existence, etc. So if your serious for truth, and not here to joke, we can answer your questions and you WILL find the answers.
@TheTruthseeka Have I read the quran? yes - and many of the Hadiths... I got about as far as the bit where a 50 something year old mohammed revealed to the parents of Aisha that 'god' had spoken to him and that 'god' wanted him to meddle with the not-yet-developed sexual organs of their 6 year old child.
I think it was about here that I decided I was an atheist.
hes only prophet claimed to be last prophet we say cuz his miracle is Quran which God promised to preserve. so his message is eternal and Quran explains Gods message so no more need for Prophets as God sent prophets to tell of His existence. makes logical sense if it is presented with the true knowledge. Just cuz people claim to love Jesus peace be upon him and follow his teachings, does not mean they do. The quran has all answers but you have to read and know its proper context.
to Jesus was either altered, added to, or lost true meaning thru translaation. How many versions of Bible atre there and how many versions of Quran are there? it speaks for itself. The Quran is only holy book in a language people speak to this day. there are millions of musilms who memorized Quran but how many Christians u know memorized the Bible? Anyways thats side info. So we believe the Prophets pf God were sent as well as their books to certain people and time except Muhamad.
and hundreds of known companions around Prophet Muhamad memorized the revelations of Quran on the spot. The Quran was written in different parts during Muhamad's life too, just not all in one sitting, as Quran was revealed, we believe, in 23 years. later those people who memorized the Quran taught othgers and then those sat all together and wrote the Quran and compiled first Quran, which is exzctly same as my Quran at home and anywhere in world today. We believe the true Bible, the inspiration
Historians can never prove that Muhamad met with Christians and he didnt learn from the BIBLE. Muslims believe that the revelations that were sent to Jesus Peace be upon him, were the word of God and our faith is NOT complete without this belief. we believe Jesus and Muhamad spread the same message of worshipping One God, and were Muslims, those who submit to the will of God. Thats what Muslim means in Arabic, so even trees and sky are Muslims. The Quran has never been changed and
First off, thank you for the chance to enlighten anybody on the subject, you could have been a little more respectful, but that doesnt matter much. First off, off the back I can tell you have seriously never sat and talked with an informed practicing Muslim just by your clearly distorted understanding of Islam. Second off, the Prophet Muhamad never claimed to know anything, rather he and we (as Muslims) believe he received inspiration from Allah (God). He never learned form Christians.
You make up strawmen and then beat them to death....
And most of your questions in this video as well as the other one show that you do not understand the basis for muslim belief at all. DeistPaladin,Do you really beleive that we "bought into" the Quran and accepted Muhammeds prophethood on the basis of "because he told us so"?? Come on.
Religion is rubbish. A waste of time and money. Don't get me wrong, I believe there is a God, but he is not on anyone's side. gave us freedom to choose and we ended up choosing to kill each other. I miss the 70s.
@LukeRemirez If we weren't killing each other over religion we'd kill each other over something else. What we need is ONE body that controls the entire planet. That way instead of plotting to kill each other on earth we can plot to kill the bastards on some distant planet and take their cookies.
@TheRavic23 Good point. Funny you should mention about the 'If we weren't killing each other' thing. I just going through the Neo-Con theory, and you make a valid point. The only way for a society to be united is to have a common enemy. The 'bastards on some distant planet' is a awesome theory. Not sure if they have cookies though.
you are missing the contents of the two books, the islamic ideology makes sence, a god that was himself and his son at the same time makes none. you obviously have not read those books. history proves that the first christians did not worship jesus, that was something that they added later. you talked a lot, but you have to do research.
@AriAni070 precisely, religion is just another means of control. It's no different than government propaganda aimed to brainwash a country into lining the pockets of some ambitious assholes. A great example of this is the whole Nazi thing with Hitler. Any person in their right mind would have called for his execution. But take advantage of hopeless people and they'll cling to any belief you plant in their mind. which is EXACTLY how religion was started, just another way to control people.
I think you use limited human logic. Kind of like looking at a 3dimensional cube drawn on a 2dimensional sheet of paper. Although you seem to be objective you can only guess and never know. As for mohammed, this guy was allowed to wreck his havoc for some reason we in our human logic are not privvy to. So keep guessing it is food for thought. No disrespect intended.
the first thing its really strange that the video title is Skeptic Kuran study and you`re repeating stories that have never mentioned in the Kuran ??!!!!!! what you doing there
the second thing if one case has been proved from the Kuran means you should change the video`s title and sit here and start concedering that book as an outstanding book in order to dig it out those other books such as the so called bible , to not illusion the video viewers ..... thank you
the first thing its really strange that the video title is Skeptic Kuran study and you`re repeating stories that have never mentioned in the Kuran ??!!!!!! what you doing there
the second thing if one case has been proved from the Kuran means you should change the video`s title and sit here and start concedering that book as an outstanding book in order to dig it out those other books such as the so called bible , to not illusion the video viewers ..... thank you
For me, the major evidence for the superiority of Christianity over Islam is the way the Christian West slapped Islam's hand, took science and technology away from them and ran with it. Islamic countries remain culturally and scientifically backward. Yet Muslims will not face the idea that Islam itself is in any way responsible for this.
@DeistPaladin Yes, the whole classical world was filtered through Islamic civilisation before it reached the West. We'll never know how much was lost or what role Islam played in that loss. What is beyond doubt is that the West built on classical science and art in a way that Islam simply didn't, and probably couldn't.
There seems to be something basically wrong with the Islamic mind set that prevents progress beyond certain limits.
@signalII What would I be "wrong" about? The skeptic doesn't have the burden of proof. All the skeptic does is say the fantastic claims made by religion or other sources haven't proven their case.
@DeistPaladin there is many errors when you are making your questions and arguments you have alot of mistakes riddled to it , so if no one answers you it will make sense , not cause they are wrong but cause you have to correct and rephrase your questions, and make a good talk to people , instead of just reading a book and mixing it with your beliefs and then assuming they are from those religions.
@signalII Well, do tell then. The basic question I asked is for Islam to make its case. As I say in my video, pretend that I've decided to get some religion. Christianity has made its case. What's yours?
@DeistPaladin The most qualified person that I can suggest, who speaks in a clear language in regards to Islam is Gary Miller.
Whatch "the basis for muslim beleif" as well as "the nature of beleif" "reason and revelation" "Gary Miller vs. Jimmy Swaggart" "muslims misguided or misunderstood?"
You can also watch Gary Miller/Ahmed Deedat (from part 8 or so I think) that will give a better understanding of the relation between the Quran and the Bible.
@NevilleRhysBarnes We call the era when Europe's Christianity was greatest "The Dark Ages". Scientific inquiry was strongest in the Muslim world at this time. When Muslims adopted the principle that "Allah causes all things and that scientific causality is a mere illusion", Islamic knowledge waned.
It was when logic, science and evidence were valued over dogma that Europe surpassed Islam. The West's superiority comes from valuing scientific inquiry, not Christianity.
@drfoxcourt It's hard to know what the exact factors were. Some commentators, such as Oppenheimer and John Roberts, attribute Europe's success to Christian ideas. One could argue that Christianity provided an environment of optimism and intellectual freedom within which science could flower, while Islam turned conservative and repressive. Christianity was as powerful in the West as Islam was in the East--these were cultures steeped in religion--so you cannot rule out Christianity as a factor.
@NevilleRhysBarnes I can rule it out just fine, thank you. Scientific and sociological progress could only be made by plowing through Christian resistance and roadblocks. Christianity has always had to be dragged, kicking and screaming, into the modern age. It's only after the dust has settled that Christians declare this is what they said the whole time and try to take credit.
@DeistPaladin You are displaying sheer dogmatism. When an ideology is a pervasive as Christianity was to the Medieval West you cannot ignore its influence or its role in a culture's success. There has been little conflict between Christianity and science: when were Newton, Bacon, Liebniz etc persecuted? There was only Galileo and Bruno, then the explosion that surrounded Darwin in the 19th century.
Why was "scientific and sociological progress " not made under Islam?
@NevilleRhysBarnes Please provide any examples where Christianity was either necessary or helpful to either sociological or scientific progress and we can discuss them. As far as I can tell, the Age of Enlightenment only happened after Christianity's strangle hold on the West was finally broken.
The more a culture is devoutly religious, the more backward it becomes. This is why Islamic culture is stuck in the Dark Ages.
@DeistPaladin Your problem is that you've got to explain what it was about the West that enabled this vast reversal, the rise of the West from a state of barbarism to one of total superiority over Islamic civilisation. The major cultural difference was that the West was Christian and the East was Islamic. Tariq Ali argues that the difference was that the West had feudalism, but his logic escapes me. So what was the factor? Or do you think white men just inherently smarter than Arabs?
@NevilleRhysBarnes My hypothesis is that failure and pain can be effective teachers if we know how to learn. As a business student, I've studied how the most catastrophic of failures can sometimes spur the kind of discipline and innovation that ironically leads to greater breakthroughs and success.
While success can lead to complacency and refusal to change, failure opens the door to trying new approaches and therefore to innovation. Europe's success is due to its prior failure.
@DeistPaladin This doesn't strike me as a credible theory--what works on an individual bankrupt can't easily be extended to an entire culture that may not even realise it is failing.
@NevilleRhysBarnes But European culture did realize it was failing during the Middle Ages when it was exposed to the outside world and opened up to trade with the East. When an entire culture fails, be it a business or a country, it begins to consider other ideas and strategies. This openness to change is precisely what eventually led to industrialization. Other cultures that had been more successful clung to tradition and thus fell behind. Failure can be a teacher, success a poison.
@DeistPaladin The West has led the world for about a thousand years. I'd have thought by now our success would have poisoned us.
For that matter, Islam has been failing for about six hundred years. When is it going to learn its lesson and flower?
I expect there's a degree of truth to your hypothesis, but as influencial factors go, I wouldn't rate it alongside the huge and consistent influence of Christianity.
@NevilleRhysBarnes 1000 years? Seriously? Tell that to the Mongols. It wasn't until 1492 before Columbus made landfall in the Americas. The Turks continued expansion into Europe until they were finally stopped at Vienna in 1683 (well inside your 600 year figure) and they weren't kicked out until the 20th century. Now as for when they learn their lesson, it's happening now with an increasingly secular youth. Hopefully, we'll see its effect soon.
@NevilleRhysBarnes Where's your evidence that Europe was driven by Christianity to greatness, though strangely not for 1,500 years? I think my hypothesis is a tad more viable, considering that I don't have to explain why it took so long.
@DeistPaladin I don't think Europe did see itself as a failure during the Dark Ages. It was certainly nostalgic for the Roman-influenced past, but the bulk of Europe would have regarded the Romans as having deserted them. That's not the same thing as failure.
The idea that the UK drove itself all the way from Magna Carta to the Industrial Revolution, and beyond, all because of a bankrupt's sense of failure does not sound tenable. Where is the documentary evidence for this sense of failure?
@DeistPaladin Christianity wasn't "broken" until the 20th C, circa WW1. Most of the time--e.g. the Carolingian renaissance--the rise in Western culture paralleled the rise of Christianity.
You seem to have a bee in your bonnet about religion. Sure, religion is ignorant and superstitious, but only relatively. In the 9th C Christianity fostered literacy and the preservation of knowledge. It brought a coherent moral code. For centuries, all the great intellectuals came from the church.
@NevilleRhysBarnes Christianity's power was broken during the Reformation. At that point, the monolithic power of the papacy was shattered into multiple squabbling groups. The Protestants proved no better or worse than the Catholics but the sectarian division of power gave intellectuals and secular sources of power increasing room to maneuver.
@DeistPaladin The reformation didn't even start until the early 16th C. There is a huge list of discoveries and inventions from this time, the vast bulk of which received no attention from the church whatsoever. Galileo was a mere glitch, an anomally. There was no substantial conflict between the church and science/ technology until Darwin.
Today Christianity is largely a hinderance, but in the past it was greatly beneficial--and certainly a far better choice than Islam.
@NevilleRhysBarnes There were numerous persecuted intellectuals prior to and after Galileo. Claiming he was just an anomally only serves to derail your credibility and expose you as being the one with the dogmatic views.
Dominican monks burn the wisdom of Moorish Spain, attempting to destroy the learning preserved by Muslims, 1553 John Calvin burns Micheal Servetus at the stake, 1559 Catholic Church introduces the "Index of Forbidden Books". Were these anomolies as well?
@DeistPaladin So that's all you can come up with. Put in the context of a continent-wide movement and over a century--and bearing in mind the general brutality of the times--it barely amounts to a blip.
BTW, even the usually-quoted examples of Christianity vs science tend to be exaggerated. Galileo was never given any trouble until he insulted the Pope in his writing, and Bruno was executed for his theology, not his science (ditto Servetus).
@DeistPaladin Certainly these were bad events, but they're still only part of the bigger picture. The trouble is, you are determined not to acknowledge the positive side of Christian history. That's a one-sided view, black-and-white, fanatical as any fundamentalist and dogmatic as any Pope. Thank God people like you are no longer in charge. Maybe you should become a Muslim--you'd fit right in.
@DeistPaladin I'm bored with this dialogue. You've got a vague theory that Europe bore, culture-wide, the psychology of the bankrupt, but no evidence to support it.
Meanwhile, you refuse to accept a very simple proposition, that in the right context Christianity can be a force for good. Sheer dogmatism, secular variety. You're not worth talking to. Goodbye.
@NevilleRhysBarnes I leave it to spectators to determine which one of us is clinging to dogma. It's my contention that your ignorance of even basic history combined with your flimsy rationalizations of scripture show that you're performing mental gymnastics to attribute society's greatest achievements to what demonstrably hindered it the most.
Is it so you can prop up your delusions of a friendly sky-daddy who will care for you in life and reunite you with your loved ones afterwords?
@DeistPaladin Oh, I get it. You think that I'm a Christian.
Listen: today Christianity has outlived its usefulness. But there were times in the past when it was a useful and powerful force.
You cannot deny it encouraged literacy. You cannot deny it preserved knowledge. You cannot deny it unified Europe, at least until the Reformation. There is a long list of such positive influences that you appear determined not to acknowledge.
@DeistPaladin Sociological progress helped by Christianity? Easy: slavery ended in the UK by Wilberforce and the Clapham Evangelicals. (Plenty more where that came from.)
If you're going to argue about this stuff for *&&^^% sake learn the subject. You seem to be arguing from a dogmatic, anti-religious stance that shows no real knowledge of history.
@NevilleRhysBarnes ROTFLMAO! Slavery ended by Christianity? You are joking, I hope? Slavery is heavily endorsed by and regulated within the Bible. Even Jesus uses slaves in his parables. The entire institution in America was justified by the "curse of Ham" myth. Point out a single passage in the Bible where slavery is outlawed and maybe I'll consider it.
It was a deist by the name of Lincoln who would eventually abolish the institution of slavery in America.
@DeistPaladin That's what happened. Read the history: Wilberforce and the Clapham Evangelicals. (Note that I specified slavery in the UK.)
You are confusing the Bible with Christianity. You are also guilty of a literal reading of the Bible. While figures like St. Paul didn't specifically attack the social order of his day, the principles he preached of the equality of all men, and idea of the work ethic (the worker is worthy of his wage), eventually spurred Christians to reject slavery.
@NevilleRhysBarnes The Bible IS Christianity. It's the holy book of Christianity. Perhaps you hadn't heard but it's supposed to be the revealed Word of God. Expressions of idealism that aren't supported by scripture are just that, the ideals of an individual. Nothing more.
Also, in what timescale does "eventually spurred" mean 2,000 years later? You can't expect me to take you seriously when you say things like this.
@DeistPaladin (1) It's only the "revealed word of God" to certain strands of Christianity. (2) The "expressions of idealism" we're discussing are in the Bible. (3) There are many references to slavery in the Bible, but no explicit support for slavery in the New Testament.
Actually, as Jacques Ellul points out, under the influence of Christianity slavery progressively disappeared from the Roman Empire. It was reintroduced to the Mediterranean world by Muslims.
@DeistPaladin None of these verses explicitly support slavery. As I said earlier, Paul (et al) didn't attempt to overthrow the social order of their times. Christianity focussed on helping individuals deal with their individual situations. This was a realistic policy, as to try to overthrow slavery at that point would have been suicide.
BTW, where exactly is Tit 9: 10-11. Have you actually checked the references you're quoting?
@NevilleRhysBarnes Telling slaves to obey their masters and condemning those who oppose slavery isn't supporting slavery?
Tit 2:9 (sorry I got the number wrong) "Tell slaves to be submissive to their masters" That's not an endorsement of the practice of slavery? What do you want?
@DeistPaladin Easy. Galatians 3:28: "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus."
Christianity has frequently failed to live up to this ideal, but the sentiment was there and it has been a positive influence.
@NevilleRhysBarnes The reason no-one wants to share tech with them is because they will immediately move to obliterate jerusalem, and they feebly try to kill them regardless. They have yet to realize that if they EVER made a legit move against Israel it would just give us a wonderful reason to nuke their pitiful excuse of a society into oblivion.
i never thought about the flying to heaven in that way. If heaven is nor in the clouds but outside the universe then lol you hav to xplain how mohMAD survived subzero temps, black holes, radiation. Not to mention he would have to travel about 10000000000000 the speed of light ;)
keep it up! nd write a book on islam. Use fake name tho for obvious reasons lol ;)
@20033716 well, for me quantum mechanics cannot explain everything, for example the exact location of an electron. so they created uncertainty principle. but still, despite its limitation it's a big discovery i believe. hm i was talking about Einstein theory of relativity regarding time dilation phenomena.
i think i had enough of these for now, i need to go to sleep, it' has passed bedtime in Malaysia right now. i need to go to work in the morning :D
@electrobulb Quantum mechanics opened the gates about the origin of this universe.Nobody understands Quantum mechanics and if someone says he knows Quantum mechanics it means he does not understand Quantum mechanics.But a conscious being need not fill that gap in the origin stories.The universe is fully capable of originating spontaneously out of nothing.
@20033716 consider a piece of paper with a tiny point drawn on it. that tiny point is the starting point of energy formed to start off the big bang, while the paper represents the space act as the container for the energy..that the law.if there's no space, the energy cannot be created. if energy is created out of nothingness there must be a space. then how the hell the Space get in there at the first place? there must be a Creator who had created it.
@electrobulb strawman argument but the creator needs a creator too by your logic.First the question of who created this universe is wrong because who always refers toa person.The laws of physics allow this universe to be created from nothing (read hiding behind the mirror by Lawrence Krauss and Steven Hawkings lectures).still dark matter constitutes 70% mass of this universe and we are not sure whether there are multiverses as well.Even if they are they don't interfere with ours and hence np
@20033716 yea, but why those laws of physics exist? Although it is possible for things such as particles to pop into existence from "nothing," it has never been shown that non-quantum-sized objects can perform such feats. Even if it were possible, why would it be expected that laws of physics that allow such events to occur would actually exist. Why wouldn't a true nothing consist of no laws of physics and no possibility of anything popping into existence.
@electrobulb laws of physics are mere observation of facts of nature.Non Quantum to Quantum happens only after inflation because of big bang.There were charged particles and oppositely charged particles were canceling each other and one such escaped charged proton was our universe. Quantum physics is more weirder than the Quran or the bible or the concept of God but the predictions of Quantum physics is so accurate that we cannot ignore.According to Quantum physics something can be from nothing
@DeistPaladin i know a logic answer to your question on why isa didnt follow Muhammad on his Buraq (flying unicorn) on the night of israk mikraj..if isa is a god or a son of god then, y bothered seeking for help of Muhammad to follow him down to earth to correct things right? as Christians and Muslim believe that God is Almighty..he can do things by his own will..so ur question is a proof to the incapability of isa...because he's a human just like Muhammad, as well as u and me..insyaAllah
@electrobulb well its not an inception movie you are explaining to be understood by logic.Muhammad existed Jesus did not.Atleast the biblicalquranic jesus did not exst.Muhammad did not go to heaven because there is no heaven.He is not a messenger of God because there is no God.
@20033716 There is a creator...it would be absurd if the explosion during big bang and the steady rate of expansion of universe after the explosion wasn't governed by some divine law, because that was before any matter to govern law of nature even existed. Muhammad talked about the creator, Jesus talked about creator who obviously..created him in Merriam's womb, and Muhammad talked about Jesus, but never mention him as the son of god, or Muhammad makes himself as god...so, yes there is one god.
@electrobulb First to assert that there is a creator is absurd.If there was a creator was he inside the proton or outside the proton.If he was outside the proton he cannot exhibit his energy inside this universe as it would violate law of conservation of energy.If he was inside he should obey the laws of universe which were formed some 10^-36 seconds after the bb.before big bang there was no energy which means God had no energy?If big bang theory is ok what about theory of evolution?
@20033716 Yes god had no energy because, He cannot be associated with any form of His creation, He is in His own form called as Dzat..means it not a physical attribute that can be described. if u don't believe to the existence of such things, explain to me about Black Matter, it's his creation in the form of energy, yet human failed to give precise explanation about it. let's say someday, someone can explain the theory of nothingness, then a new question would arise, who created "nothingness"?
@electrobulb since you believe in a Quranic God Allah who has a leg(Surah 68:42) has hands, which are biological evolutionary products happened atleast 10 billion years after the big bang.Humans started to research about this in the early 20th century after the advent of hubble telesc
one no its a old vid :(
nazymann 3 weeks ago
:D he is back :)
nazymann 3 weeks ago
any selfproclaiming book without evidence is just that. funny how they like to use the word' truth'. if the quran is the truth and so full of "scientific proofs" as many muslims say, whats next? shouldnt the quran be able to forecast the next big scientific discovery? of course not. reverse engineering prophecy is an old dirty trick done by many cults. the word play and desperate twisting is a joke
xamot27 3 weeks ago
Arguing with religious folks is like arguing with a child who is not old enough to reason, it makes me very sad and hopeless about the future of the human race !!
10290gilmore 1 month ago
I think I'm an athiest until guys like tchaikovsky come along and blow me away with their logic !
10290gilmore 1 month ago
ya got to smoke a lot of dope for the supernatural to appear to you....LOL holy smoke didn`t you ever watch the movie up in smoke? hey..thanks! . great review and I`m sure the people in the nut house can tell ya plenty of great cloud stories......believe me I know for exsperience.
clnmyjts 1 month ago
FOOL!!! Allah is the only true God! And I have proof. This one morning I was eating with Akbar and low and behold, Allah's name was right there in my alphabet cereal. Clearly, this proves conclusively that Allah is part of this complete breakfast.
anzwertree 1 month ago
@ProBasketball64
"god has locked your heart from the acceptance of truth. God chooses whom he wills to guide to the straight path"
Than this life is obviously not a fair test, if your god has already riged it so that only the people HE wants pass it. What is the point of this test than?
If a teacher on purpose failes a student by tricking the student, does that sound like a just and fair teacher to you?
Zackerybob 1 month ago
I stopped watching when I saw the shirt you are wearing. "Jesus Never Existed" is a pretty bold (albeit currently popular) statement, especially if you've actually done your research.
stevenhorr 3 months ago
@stevenhorr It sounds like you need a basic course in logic. You just admitted that you saw something that was completely beside the point of this video and decided that whatever is in this video must be wrong and there's no need to even watch it to come to that conclusion.
DeistPaladin 3 weeks ago 2
@DeistPaladin
I don't think that my understanding of logic is in question here because I chose not to watch your video. Thanks, though.
stevenhorr 3 weeks ago
@stevenhorr Every "eye witness" account of the life and times of Jesus Christ is suspect. All first person accounts were from his followers. Second and third person accounts (they heard about it from someone else) can be put into the same category as Joseph Smith (Mormons) and his magical golden plates given to him by Moroni that he couldn't show anyone, but that everyone should just take his word that they existed. All secular accounts (non followers) never met Jesus and were
Medewtysenu 3 weeks ago
@Medewtysenu given well after the death of Jesus, (such as the account given by Josephus). Interestingly enough the life of Jesus has many things in common with popular pagan beliefs of the times, Horus and Mithra to name just two. The God-man mythos is quite common in paganism. Judaism on the other hand totally refutes the Jesus was the Messiah idea and their writings have remained unchanged versus the many NT translations and versions. Google Occam's Razor. for more info.
Medewtysenu 3 weeks ago
@Medewtysenu
Wow, I didn't think my offhand comment would elicit such a response. Nowhere in my comment did I say that Jesus in fact existed. I said that saying he did not exist is a bold and fashionable statement. Personally, based on all of the evidence I've investigated, I'd say he most likely did exist. But ultimately who can say for certain? I'm also quite familiar with the Horus and Mithra comparisons, as well as Occam's Razor. But thanks for taking the time to educate me! :)
stevenhorr 3 weeks ago
@ProBasketball64
SOS 5:16 "His mouth is most sweet: yea, he is altogether lovely. This is my beloved, and this is my friend, O daughters of Jerusalem."
No mention of Muhammad "by name" that I can see.
DeistPaladin 4 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
BS! MiddleEast ALWAYS at war! Mohammad violent SINFUL cult Murderer!Jesus/Healed/Blessed/Peace/Salvation/GOD! All MUSLIMS who converted to Christianity ARE HAPPY & FREE OF ABUSE & MISERY Islam leaders are killing you! Christians LOVE YOU! PLEASE accept JESUS CHRIST as your SAVIOR John 3:16 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him! REBEL & ACCEPT JESUS! Be FREE of ISLAM LIES Visit wlix radio.com
tigersforchrist 4 months ago
lmao why don't you let people in on the fact that you're a confused jew
est623ce 6 months ago
The whole idea of miracles is that they are blatantly different from reality, otherwise they wouldnt be proving anything, theyd just be rare occurences that could happen anytime. If you dont believe in them, there are other arguments to why Muhammad (pbuh) is a messenger. He had the Quran, which is written in extremely simple but rich language that clearly shows it was not written by humans, and it even says that if you doubt the authenticity of the Quran, just try writing a chapter of it.
MahaAbAz 6 months ago
I'm sorry, but i have to criticize you here heavily. You can't equate the Qu'ran and the bible that way, because Islam has more than the qu'ran only, it has the huge amounts of hadithes, which comprise a lot of supposed knowledge about Mohammed, from which a lot of adding interpretations come from. Also there are the tafsirs, the commentaries of scholars. So it's dishonest to compare qu'ran and bible as equals, because it's not intended that way.
MardasMan 6 months ago
love your video man. i used to be a christian and a muslim, now Im a deist. its something ive been looking for my whole life.
kiddo500 9 months ago
@kiddo500
You've been looking for deism your whole life? Isn't it basically atheism with a god that doesn't mean squat?
stevenhorr 3 months ago
Which edition of the qur'an are you holding up? Could you give the ISBN number, please?
Dicedude 9 months ago
I am gonna be rude now and arrogant and excuse myself from this discussion. You take pieces from a whole but most important, you don't seem to have passion and insight in what you read. You fail to recognize patherns. You are not discussing recipes here so you can't judge piece on themselves. May God show you the path ( after you are done bitching everything ;) )
tchaikovsky1979 11 months ago
muslims writers, go read about him BY THOSE PEOPLE FROM YOU OWN WORLD!!!
there are alllot of books out there speaks the truth about Islam and Quraan
oh and 1 more thing!
I READ THE BIBLE! wow u have million of versions! on the other hand,THERE IS ONLY ONE VERSION OF QURAAN!!
and If u do not blv in heaven nor hell! DO NOT CLAIM UR SELF BEING CHRISTIAN!
SHAME ON YOU!!!!SHAME ON YOU!
s
d3aaaba 11 months ago
you are so not educated!!!
do U think a god would be a god and have a son??JUST LIKE HUMAN!
and U stupid ,, didn't Jesus went up to heaven? didnt Jesus had spoken to Angles as well?
seriously,before dissing a religion and saving your spot in hell, GO EFFING READ!!
And Mohammed Peace be upon him, DID NOT SAY THAT HE IS THE ONLY ONE SPOKE TO GOD
yes U are missing allllllllot MR.!!
missing respect on top of all!!
do not go and read books about Mohhammed peace be upon him by Arabic or
d3aaaba 11 months ago
@d3aaaba
Great comment.. thank you!
I felt like writing a comment to this guy.. but, didn't want to waste my time.. since I figured, more knowledge is just what he needs.
Leon2101 10 months ago
@Leon2101 I spoke my Brian and Heart :)
and True, he needs good education.. el7mdla bs!
d3aaaba 10 months ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Islam is THE truth because YOUR !! bible says so! The name of the noble guy who you think you can mock, is written in the Torah AND bible! Is this good enough?
tchaikovsky1979 11 months ago
@tchaikovsky1979 My Bible? No, I don't think so. I'm not a Christian. But you think their Bible says Islam is the truth and somehow Christians have been missing that for 2000 years?
DeistPaladin 11 months ago 8
@DeistPaladin
I wish they have been missing it!! That could save some understanding
but they just ignore it!! they say Yes so there is the name Muhammed in the bible but we re not going to aknowledge it!! why not throw the bible away if you choose what to aknowledge from it and what not??
Christians are sooo frustrated that they have the name of The Muslim prophet in their book, they wish it wasnt there...but it is!! so now what?
tchaikovsky1979 11 months ago
@DeistPaladin
Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) is mentioned by name in the Song of Solomon chapter 5 verse 16:"Hikko Mamittakim we kullo Muhammadim Zehdoodeh wa Zehraee Bayna Jerusalem."
tchaikovsky1979 11 months ago
@tchaikovsky1979 No, he's not. Try again?
DeistPaladin 11 months ago 14
@DeistPaladin yeah he is, listen to Dr. Zakir Naik.
razaa09 3 weeks ago
@tchaikovsky1979 "His mouth is most sweet: yea, he is altogether lovely. This is my beloved, and this is my friend, O daughters of Jerusalem." is the translation - and so? what is your point? What does it prove? that there was some guy called mohhammed with nice pert lips....and...?
blueray1969 11 months ago
@tchaikovsky1979
No he wasn't. Would have been odd to have seen that, since Muslims didn't make THEIR myths up until 500 years AFTER Jesus, who came thousands of years AFTER Solomon. Face it dude...it's all crap.
19NaVi72 9 months ago
@tchaikovsky1979 What version are you using? I can not find this in the Tanakh or in several Christian versions. Thanks.
csnowutube 7 months ago
@tchaikovsky1979 You poor, sad, delusional human.....I feel sorry for you !!!
10290gilmore 1 month ago
@DeistPaladin again with the "your bible" bullshit. Jesus Christ that's annoying.
MrBrational 7 months ago
@tchaikovsky1979
So if Thor the god of thunder is mentioned in 2 books of fiction, he must exist, by your logic.
I'm afraid the bible and koran have as much authority as each other, i.e. NONE!!
Wordavee1 10 months ago
@tchaikovsky1979 ahh i think your talking about deuteronomy 18:18 where moses said he would rise up a prophet like him,and in some wierd way yous tought he ment muhammed,but jesus put that one to bed when he said he was that prophet shot down but answer me this why are u listening to the bible now when muslims claim its bollix lol and corupt,wasnt corupted enough for muhammed to put his own name in it that could of done the job for him lol yous muslims are a bad joke gone wrong.
lockateard17 9 months ago
@23421432143 I don't think he gives a flying fuck to be honest mate. (god) He's probably sitting up somewhere laughing at all of the religious folk who can't recognize a man-made fairy tale when they see one. We might as well start worshipping harry potter! why? because there's a book written about him! therefore it must be true! that's religious logic right there.
TheRavic23 1 year ago
When i think of Christians and Muslims. I think of Republicans and Democrats. Two enormous piles of shit screaming that THEY are less putrescent than the other.
In other words, they're two sides of the same coin at the bottom of the intellectual ladder. Much like the mentally ill inmates that DeistPaladin mentioned.
TheRavic23 1 year ago
I can easily refute your questions in proper Islamic answers that make logical sense, but you would get bored of my writing. I don not have any camera to reply via video or else the matter would have been resolved on the spot and your veil of ignorance due to lack of knowledge of authentic Islam would be removed. Even lots of muslims are ignorant of their religion. Know that you will never learn Islam thru muslims actions but rather thru studying Islam. Islam is Peace and the Truth.
TheTruthseeka 1 year ago
@TheTruthseeka If islam is peace then why does the very word 'islam' mean submission?
byteresistor 1 year ago
@byteresistor Good Question. In Arabic language, some words are derived from one word or even two words. Islam comes from two root words; Aslamah and Salamah. They mean Peace and Submission. So the more, we submit, the more Peace we have and only a practicing Muslim truely feels this peace. I didnt want to overwhelm all this info in a small reply, so i couldnt include that earlier. Like I said, Muslims SUBMIT to the will of Allah (God).
TheTruthseeka 1 year ago
@TheTruthseeka Submission to authority is anything but peace. It is the will of being a slave.
byteresistor 1 year ago
@byteresistor Thats your opinion. we are under certain limitations, you cannot deny that. Try to stop breathing, eating, sleeping, etc. All proof of God to show we are weak & supported by something greater, dependent upon Him. We are weak and slaves of what some call "nature". But Nature is actually is God's work, Nature could not just exist. Why dont u question that? We submit without realizing and without will. Or else then stop eating and say u hate to submit. God is not authority on earth.
TheTruthseeka 1 year ago
@TheTruthseeka "Try to stop breathing, eating, sleeping, etc. All proof of God"
One of the most idiotic reasons for gods existence I have ever heard. And I've heard some pretty stupid stuff over the years.
"Nature could not just exist. Why dont u question that?"
Nature could not just exist but god can? A god which would be even more complex than the thing you're trying to explain with it. Why don't YOU question that?
byteresistor 1 year ago
@byteresistor The proof for God lays in His holy books and Messengers, but you have already regarded the Quran as False. The Bible is clearly contradictory and contains errors, but that doesnt mean Quran is same way. Nature was a way to tell you that even if you dont believ in Quran, Gods words, then there is still logicsal proofs for Gods existence. God is not complicated and is clearly stated by the way He describes Himself in Quran. God is complicated to you cuz u dont read Quran
. READ
TheTruthseeka 1 year ago
@TheTruthseeka "The proof for God lays in His holy books and Messengers"
circular reasoning
"Nature was a way to tell you that even if you dont believ in Quran, Gods words, then there is still logicsal proofs for Gods existence"
god of the gaps
"Science states that nature exists, but they dont know why. God is only answer"
argument from ignorance
"You make no sense and have baseless points"
Says the person who's posts are full of logical fallacies.
byteresistor 1 year ago
@byteresistor In the name of God, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.
Say: He is Allah, the One and Only! Allah, the Eternal, Absolute; He begetteth not nor is He begotten. And there is none like unto Him. Quran Chapter 112.
Soon We will show them our signs in the (farthest) regions (of the earth), and in their own souls, until it becomes manifest to them that this is the Truth. Is it not enough that thy Lord doth witness all things?"
[Al-Quran 41:53]
TheTruthseeka 1 year ago
@TheTruthseeka Quoting scripture to show the scripture is true is circular reasoning. Do you even know what a logical fallacy is?
"No gaps for God thats your perspective due to lack of knowledge"
Apparently you don't. It's called the god of the gaps fallacy. Look it up.
byteresistor 1 year ago
@byteresistor “And that to thy Lord is the goal: And that He
it is Who makes (men) laugh and makes (them) weep.
And that He it is Who causes death and gives life. And
that He creates pairs, the male and the female, from
the small life-germ when it is adapted” (53:42-46).
TheTruthseeka 1 year ago
@byteresistor ““Blessed is He in Whose hand is the Kingdom, and He
is Possessor of power over all things, Who created
death and life that He might try you — which of you is
best in deeds. And He is the Mighty, the Forgiving,
Who created the seven heavens alike. Thou seest no
incongruity in the creation of the Beneficent. Then look
again: Canst thou see any disorder? Then turn the
eye again and again — thy look will return to thee
confused, while it is fatigued” (67:1-4).
TheTruthseeka 1 year ago
No gaps for God thats your perspective due to lack of knowledge. No circular reasoning rather derived from Quran: “These are they
whom Allah guided, so follow their guidance. Say: I ask you
not for any reward for it. It is naught but a Reminder to the
nations” (6:91).
I hate to use logic when I have God's words, rather i used logic for your sake. Anyways, you wanna deny all this truth. I asked you so many questions, for example then whats nature, purpose of life, etc. no answers
TheTruthseeka 1 year ago
@TheTruthseeka Nature = animals, plants etc. purpose of life = grow up, get a job, work your ass off for 75% of your life, reproduce, die, become fertilizer for a tree, repeat.
Before you spit some rubbish my way about "God being the creator of the world, its inhabitants, and all that assorted lunacy. But since you insist on using this retarded subsitute for logic. I shall do the same. God created everything right? Well what the hell created god? Answer me that you zealot nutjob
TheRavic23 1 year ago
@TheRavic23 First off, you refer using profain terminology because you cant debunk the truth and have to resort to lower methods. I will not respond to people who have no life and just say stupid things. Second off, why do you work? to eat and have shelter, but what if you already have that? so no purpose? to make trees grow? then why should i even work, i should just die now. Thirdly, everything is created by God because it BEGINS to exist but God has no beginning/end therefore no creator.
TheTruthseeka 1 year ago
@TheTruthseeka Oh so in other words you can't prove god exists? At all? And for the last time, quoting scripture to prove that scripture is true is circular reasoning like byteresistor said, It's like writing a fictional novel and using passaged in the novel to prove it 2 b true We CAN debunk your faith, we CANNOT, however, prove or disprove the existance of god. There are plenty of videos on youtube where ppl offer completely logical and proven arguments against holy scripture
TheRavic23 1 year ago
@TheRavic23 I challenge you to bring me ONE proof that the Quran is fake, contradictory, not true, etc. I said ONE, not two three, or even four, but one. Quran is not regular book. how does an illiterate man come up with numerous scientific miracles hundreds sometimes a thousand years before science even discovered them. Bring me proof if you are truthful and not just stating empty claims, which anybody can do.
TheTruthseeka 1 year ago
@TheTruthseeka Stupid youtube cutting out half of my post >;[ wtb more characters
TheRavic23 1 year ago
@byteresistor Wake up. God already refuted you thru this verse. think about it. “And when My servants ask thee concerning
Me, surely I am nigh. I answer the prayer of the
suppliant when he calls on Me, so they should hear
My call and believe in Me that they may walk in the
right way” (2:186). So you are obviously gonna brush it off, like it doesnt say anything. Have a happy life. I dont want to waste my time and your time argueing if you dont want to make any conclusions/ just argue
TheTruthseeka 1 year ago
So prove to me how nature came about. things dont come from nothing, if so, then i can get a jar and then over time, all of a sudden life or "nature" will create a whole earth and creatures of all kinds. Science states that nature exists, but they dont know why. God is only answer. You make no sense and have baseless points and just want to deny the truth. Quran says there will be people who deny truth and most of humans will be ungrateful. Truth is clear. if you want to deny, feel free.
TheTruthseeka 1 year ago
@TheTruthseeka Let's see some refuting buddy. We've got time obviously.
TheRavic23 1 year ago
@TheRavic23 I wanna make it clear: im not here to argue and if u think so, maybe i should stop typing. but rather I speak of Holy book from God sent by Him, the One God, only being worthy of worship, to mankind. Allah says: "Worship Allâh! You have no other Ilâh (God) but Him." Al-A'raf 7:59 God further says: "I have only created Jinns (spirits) and men that they may worship Me; no support do I require from them nor do I require that they should feed Me." (Surah: 51-56-57)
TheTruthseeka 1 year ago
@TheRavic23 I'm inviting you to the untouched religion, thats a complete way of life, sent from God. If you are interested in learning more, i can assist from the two authentic untouched sources in Islam" Quran and Hadith(sayings, actions, approvals of Prophet). If you think this is not for you, thats fine, but know that 9.5 times out of 10, people know of a distorted version of Islam, and do not know the truth. Its all about One God and not associating partners with Him i.e. Jesus, monkeys etc
TheTruthseeka 1 year ago
@TheTruthseeka Monkeys? are you referring to evolution? It's already a scientific fact that evolution occurs...Charles Darwin...read about him
TheRavic23 1 year ago
@TheRavic23 My anthropology teacher stated that if someone is looking for truth that her class is not the place. Science just says with the given information, this is what we have. Science even changes. they used to say earth was flat and guess what, muslims were saying it was round back in the day but they didnt believe them. Quran said so before science.
TheTruthseeka 1 year ago
@TheTruthseeka Actually, your so-called prophet believed that there were 7 earths. one earth stacked on top of another one, and that it would take 500 years to move from one earth to the next. Sounds pretty flat to me. Quran 71:19 "and Allah has made the earth for you as a carpet spread out"
TheRavic23 1 year ago
@TheRavic23 79:30 He made the earth egg-shaped. } You say Islam says Earth is flat, but the Quran says otherwise. You misinterpreted the other verse 71:19. Allah gave an example, the common practi9ce of Arabs at that time, linguistically, and is not the Earth like a carpet, the grasses layed out, like carpet, and roads spread out i.e. freeways going this way that way. The Quran was commentated by the Quran and you do not know its context. the Prophet did.
TheTruthseeka 1 year ago
@TheTruthseeka i mean Quran was commentated by Prophet
TheTruthseeka 1 year ago
@TheTruthseeka But this isn't true. It turns out that dahaha does not mean the shape of an ostrich egg, but rather the action of the ostrich spreading out the ground and flattening it when it hides it's eggs. So this is yet another indication of spreading out and flattening. For the record I'm assuming you're referring to the arabic word dahaha when you talk about an egg-shaped earth.
TheRavic23 1 year ago
@TheRavic23 In regards the seven earths. Prophet Muhamad stated that there are seven earths as in seven earth like planets in the universe. whats hard to believe. astronauts looking. This can neither be proved or disproved. but there is also a theory on this by nonMuslims scientists called level 2 multiverse. then also Prophet taught us there are seven layers of Earth, which is exactly what science claims. I wouldve attached link but i dont know how. look up layers of earth. How r u gonna deny?
TheTruthseeka 1 year ago
So read the Quran and ask an informed Muslim, not someone who has an agenda, or even ask me. We do not blind follow rather Islam makes logocal sense and whats purpose of life without worshipping God or knowing his existence. If I told you theres beautiful well arranged mansion in middle of desert came up by chance, you would laugh at me. what about world and celestial existence, etc. So if your serious for truth, and not here to joke, we can answer your questions and you WILL find the answers.
TheTruthseeka 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@TheTruthseeka Have I read the quran? yes - and many of the Hadiths... I got about as far as the bit where a 50 something year old mohammed revealed to the parents of Aisha that 'god' had spoken to him and that 'god' wanted him to meddle with the not-yet-developed sexual organs of their 6 year old child.
I think it was about here that I decided I was an atheist.
TheRavic23 1 year ago
hes only prophet claimed to be last prophet we say cuz his miracle is Quran which God promised to preserve. so his message is eternal and Quran explains Gods message so no more need for Prophets as God sent prophets to tell of His existence. makes logical sense if it is presented with the true knowledge. Just cuz people claim to love Jesus peace be upon him and follow his teachings, does not mean they do. The quran has all answers but you have to read and know its proper context.
TheTruthseeka 1 year ago
to Jesus was either altered, added to, or lost true meaning thru translaation. How many versions of Bible atre there and how many versions of Quran are there? it speaks for itself. The Quran is only holy book in a language people speak to this day. there are millions of musilms who memorized Quran but how many Christians u know memorized the Bible? Anyways thats side info. So we believe the Prophets pf God were sent as well as their books to certain people and time except Muhamad.
TheTruthseeka 1 year ago
and hundreds of known companions around Prophet Muhamad memorized the revelations of Quran on the spot. The Quran was written in different parts during Muhamad's life too, just not all in one sitting, as Quran was revealed, we believe, in 23 years. later those people who memorized the Quran taught othgers and then those sat all together and wrote the Quran and compiled first Quran, which is exzctly same as my Quran at home and anywhere in world today. We believe the true Bible, the inspiration
TheTruthseeka 1 year ago
Historians can never prove that Muhamad met with Christians and he didnt learn from the BIBLE. Muslims believe that the revelations that were sent to Jesus Peace be upon him, were the word of God and our faith is NOT complete without this belief. we believe Jesus and Muhamad spread the same message of worshipping One God, and were Muslims, those who submit to the will of God. Thats what Muslim means in Arabic, so even trees and sky are Muslims. The Quran has never been changed and
TheTruthseeka 1 year ago
First off, thank you for the chance to enlighten anybody on the subject, you could have been a little more respectful, but that doesnt matter much. First off, off the back I can tell you have seriously never sat and talked with an informed practicing Muslim just by your clearly distorted understanding of Islam. Second off, the Prophet Muhamad never claimed to know anything, rather he and we (as Muslims) believe he received inspiration from Allah (God). He never learned form Christians.
TheTruthseeka 1 year ago
You make up strawmen and then beat them to death....
And most of your questions in this video as well as the other one show that you do not understand the basis for muslim belief at all. DeistPaladin,Do you really beleive that we "bought into" the Quran and accepted Muhammeds prophethood on the basis of "because he told us so"?? Come on.
seamr05 1 year ago
Religion is rubbish. A waste of time and money. Don't get me wrong, I believe there is a God, but he is not on anyone's side. gave us freedom to choose and we ended up choosing to kill each other. I miss the 70s.
LukeRemirez 1 year ago
@LukeRemirez If we weren't killing each other over religion we'd kill each other over something else. What we need is ONE body that controls the entire planet. That way instead of plotting to kill each other on earth we can plot to kill the bastards on some distant planet and take their cookies.
TheRavic23 1 year ago
@TheRavic23 Good point. Funny you should mention about the 'If we weren't killing each other' thing. I just going through the Neo-Con theory, and you make a valid point. The only way for a society to be united is to have a common enemy. The 'bastards on some distant planet' is a awesome theory. Not sure if they have cookies though.
LukeRemirez 1 year ago
@LukeRemirez the video game Halo helped me develop this idea 0-o
TheRavic23 1 year ago
you missing alot.
xoskittlexo19 1 year ago
i don't understand first are you a muslim or christian
nagatali21 1 year ago
journeyman378 an all powerful god could do anything. Poly-monotheism makes just as much idiotic sense as the notion of god to begin with.
elporto 1 year ago
you are missing the contents of the two books, the islamic ideology makes sence, a god that was himself and his son at the same time makes none. you obviously have not read those books. history proves that the first christians did not worship jesus, that was something that they added later. you talked a lot, but you have to do research.
journeyman378 1 year ago
@journeyman378 Islamic ideaology is Based on one Man's Lie which were fabricated to suit his lustfull piratic ways.
AriAni070 1 year ago
@AriAni070 precisely, religion is just another means of control. It's no different than government propaganda aimed to brainwash a country into lining the pockets of some ambitious assholes. A great example of this is the whole Nazi thing with Hitler. Any person in their right mind would have called for his execution. But take advantage of hopeless people and they'll cling to any belief you plant in their mind. which is EXACTLY how religion was started, just another way to control people.
TheRavic23 1 year ago
I think you use limited human logic. Kind of like looking at a 3dimensional cube drawn on a 2dimensional sheet of paper. Although you seem to be objective you can only guess and never know. As for mohammed, this guy was allowed to wreck his havoc for some reason we in our human logic are not privvy to. So keep guessing it is food for thought. No disrespect intended.
BSmenot 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
the first thing its really strange that the video title is Skeptic Kuran study and you`re repeating stories that have never mentioned in the Kuran ??!!!!!! what you doing there
the second thing if one case has been proved from the Kuran means you should change the video`s title and sit here and start concedering that book as an outstanding book in order to dig it out those other books such as the so called bible , to not illusion the video viewers ..... thank you
spiritodisanto 1 year ago
the first thing its really strange that the video title is Skeptic Kuran study and you`re repeating stories that have never mentioned in the Kuran ??!!!!!! what you doing there
the second thing if one case has been proved from the Kuran means you should change the video`s title and sit here and start concedering that book as an outstanding book in order to dig it out those other books such as the so called bible , to not illusion the video viewers ..... thank you
spiritodisanto 1 year ago
For me, the major evidence for the superiority of Christianity over Islam is the way the Christian West slapped Islam's hand, took science and technology away from them and ran with it. Islamic countries remain culturally and scientifically backward. Yet Muslims will not face the idea that Islam itself is in any way responsible for this.
NevilleRhysBarnes 1 year ago
@NevilleRhysBarnes Ironic sentiment, since the West owes a debt of gratitude to the Arabic world for it's emergence from the Christian Dark Ages.
DeistPaladin 1 year ago 2
@DeistPaladin Yes, the whole classical world was filtered through Islamic civilisation before it reached the West. We'll never know how much was lost or what role Islam played in that loss. What is beyond doubt is that the West built on classical science and art in a way that Islam simply didn't, and probably couldn't.
There seems to be something basically wrong with the Islamic mind set that prevents progress beyond certain limits.
NevilleRhysBarnes 1 year ago
@DeistPaladin a question for you , how you know you're not wrong ?
signalII 1 year ago
@signalII What would I be "wrong" about? The skeptic doesn't have the burden of proof. All the skeptic does is say the fantastic claims made by religion or other sources haven't proven their case.
DeistPaladin 1 year ago
@DeistPaladin there is many errors when you are making your questions and arguments you have alot of mistakes riddled to it , so if no one answers you it will make sense , not cause they are wrong but cause you have to correct and rephrase your questions, and make a good talk to people , instead of just reading a book and mixing it with your beliefs and then assuming they are from those religions.
signalII 1 year ago
@DeistPaladin your questions are wrong that's what's wrong , you asking the wrong question , no one said skeptics can go out of criticism .
signalII 1 year ago
@signalII Well, do tell then. The basic question I asked is for Islam to make its case. As I say in my video, pretend that I've decided to get some religion. Christianity has made its case. What's yours?
DeistPaladin 1 year ago
@DeistPaladin The most qualified person that I can suggest, who speaks in a clear language in regards to Islam is Gary Miller.
Whatch "the basis for muslim beleif" as well as "the nature of beleif" "reason and revelation" "Gary Miller vs. Jimmy Swaggart" "muslims misguided or misunderstood?"
You can also watch Gary Miller/Ahmed Deedat (from part 8 or so I think) that will give a better understanding of the relation between the Quran and the Bible.
seamr05 1 year ago
@DeistPaladin there is 7 heavens.
signalII 1 year ago
@NevilleRhysBarnes We call the era when Europe's Christianity was greatest "The Dark Ages". Scientific inquiry was strongest in the Muslim world at this time. When Muslims adopted the principle that "Allah causes all things and that scientific causality is a mere illusion", Islamic knowledge waned.
It was when logic, science and evidence were valued over dogma that Europe surpassed Islam. The West's superiority comes from valuing scientific inquiry, not Christianity.
drfoxcourt 1 year ago
@drfoxcourt It's hard to know what the exact factors were. Some commentators, such as Oppenheimer and John Roberts, attribute Europe's success to Christian ideas. One could argue that Christianity provided an environment of optimism and intellectual freedom within which science could flower, while Islam turned conservative and repressive. Christianity was as powerful in the West as Islam was in the East--these were cultures steeped in religion--so you cannot rule out Christianity as a factor.
NevilleRhysBarnes 1 year ago
@NevilleRhysBarnes I can rule it out just fine, thank you. Scientific and sociological progress could only be made by plowing through Christian resistance and roadblocks. Christianity has always had to be dragged, kicking and screaming, into the modern age. It's only after the dust has settled that Christians declare this is what they said the whole time and try to take credit.
DeistPaladin 1 year ago 2
@DeistPaladin You are displaying sheer dogmatism. When an ideology is a pervasive as Christianity was to the Medieval West you cannot ignore its influence or its role in a culture's success. There has been little conflict between Christianity and science: when were Newton, Bacon, Liebniz etc persecuted? There was only Galileo and Bruno, then the explosion that surrounded Darwin in the 19th century.
Why was "scientific and sociological progress " not made under Islam?
NevilleRhysBarnes 1 year ago
@NevilleRhysBarnes Please provide any examples where Christianity was either necessary or helpful to either sociological or scientific progress and we can discuss them. As far as I can tell, the Age of Enlightenment only happened after Christianity's strangle hold on the West was finally broken.
The more a culture is devoutly religious, the more backward it becomes. This is why Islamic culture is stuck in the Dark Ages.
DeistPaladin 1 year ago
@DeistPaladin Your problem is that you've got to explain what it was about the West that enabled this vast reversal, the rise of the West from a state of barbarism to one of total superiority over Islamic civilisation. The major cultural difference was that the West was Christian and the East was Islamic. Tariq Ali argues that the difference was that the West had feudalism, but his logic escapes me. So what was the factor? Or do you think white men just inherently smarter than Arabs?
NevilleRhysBarnes 1 year ago
@NevilleRhysBarnes My hypothesis is that failure and pain can be effective teachers if we know how to learn. As a business student, I've studied how the most catastrophic of failures can sometimes spur the kind of discipline and innovation that ironically leads to greater breakthroughs and success.
While success can lead to complacency and refusal to change, failure opens the door to trying new approaches and therefore to innovation. Europe's success is due to its prior failure.
DeistPaladin 1 year ago
@DeistPaladin This doesn't strike me as a credible theory--what works on an individual bankrupt can't easily be extended to an entire culture that may not even realise it is failing.
NevilleRhysBarnes 1 year ago
@NevilleRhysBarnes But European culture did realize it was failing during the Middle Ages when it was exposed to the outside world and opened up to trade with the East. When an entire culture fails, be it a business or a country, it begins to consider other ideas and strategies. This openness to change is precisely what eventually led to industrialization. Other cultures that had been more successful clung to tradition and thus fell behind. Failure can be a teacher, success a poison.
DeistPaladin 1 year ago
@DeistPaladin The West has led the world for about a thousand years. I'd have thought by now our success would have poisoned us.
For that matter, Islam has been failing for about six hundred years. When is it going to learn its lesson and flower?
I expect there's a degree of truth to your hypothesis, but as influencial factors go, I wouldn't rate it alongside the huge and consistent influence of Christianity.
NevilleRhysBarnes 1 year ago
@NevilleRhysBarnes 1000 years? Seriously? Tell that to the Mongols. It wasn't until 1492 before Columbus made landfall in the Americas. The Turks continued expansion into Europe until they were finally stopped at Vienna in 1683 (well inside your 600 year figure) and they weren't kicked out until the 20th century. Now as for when they learn their lesson, it's happening now with an increasingly secular youth. Hopefully, we'll see its effect soon.
DeistPaladin 1 year ago
@DeistPaladin You're nit picking. I was using a broad brush with those timescales, as I'm sure you'd realise if you weren't so literal-minded.
So where exactly is your evidence that Europe was driven by a sense of failure?
NevilleRhysBarnes 1 year ago
@NevilleRhysBarnes Where's your evidence that Europe was driven by Christianity to greatness, though strangely not for 1,500 years? I think my hypothesis is a tad more viable, considering that I don't have to explain why it took so long.
DeistPaladin 1 year ago
@DeistPaladin I don't think Europe did see itself as a failure during the Dark Ages. It was certainly nostalgic for the Roman-influenced past, but the bulk of Europe would have regarded the Romans as having deserted them. That's not the same thing as failure.
The idea that the UK drove itself all the way from Magna Carta to the Industrial Revolution, and beyond, all because of a bankrupt's sense of failure does not sound tenable. Where is the documentary evidence for this sense of failure?
NevilleRhysBarnes 1 year ago
@DeistPaladin Christianity wasn't "broken" until the 20th C, circa WW1. Most of the time--e.g. the Carolingian renaissance--the rise in Western culture paralleled the rise of Christianity.
You seem to have a bee in your bonnet about religion. Sure, religion is ignorant and superstitious, but only relatively. In the 9th C Christianity fostered literacy and the preservation of knowledge. It brought a coherent moral code. For centuries, all the great intellectuals came from the church.
NevilleRhysBarnes 1 year ago
@NevilleRhysBarnes Christianity's power was broken during the Reformation. At that point, the monolithic power of the papacy was shattered into multiple squabbling groups. The Protestants proved no better or worse than the Catholics but the sectarian division of power gave intellectuals and secular sources of power increasing room to maneuver.
DeistPaladin 1 year ago
@DeistPaladin The reformation didn't even start until the early 16th C. There is a huge list of discoveries and inventions from this time, the vast bulk of which received no attention from the church whatsoever. Galileo was a mere glitch, an anomally. There was no substantial conflict between the church and science/ technology until Darwin.
Today Christianity is largely a hinderance, but in the past it was greatly beneficial--and certainly a far better choice than Islam.
NevilleRhysBarnes 1 year ago
@NevilleRhysBarnes There were numerous persecuted intellectuals prior to and after Galileo. Claiming he was just an anomally only serves to derail your credibility and expose you as being the one with the dogmatic views.
DeistPaladin 1 year ago
@DeistPaladin OK--let's hear the list.
NevilleRhysBarnes 1 year ago
@NevilleRhysBarnes Here's a few from the Reformation 16th Century:
Dominican monks burn the wisdom of Moorish Spain, attempting to destroy the learning preserved by Muslims, 1553 John Calvin burns Micheal Servetus at the stake, 1559 Catholic Church introduces the "Index of Forbidden Books". Were these anomolies as well?
DeistPaladin 1 year ago
@DeistPaladin So that's all you can come up with. Put in the context of a continent-wide movement and over a century--and bearing in mind the general brutality of the times--it barely amounts to a blip.
BTW, even the usually-quoted examples of Christianity vs science tend to be exaggerated. Galileo was never given any trouble until he insulted the Pope in his writing, and Bruno was executed for his theology, not his science (ditto Servetus).
NevilleRhysBarnes 1 year ago
@NevilleRhysBarnes Those were just a few examples from the century of Galileo. You want more? How about discussing the examples I've provided first?
DeistPaladin 1 year ago
@DeistPaladin Certainly these were bad events, but they're still only part of the bigger picture. The trouble is, you are determined not to acknowledge the positive side of Christian history. That's a one-sided view, black-and-white, fanatical as any fundamentalist and dogmatic as any Pope. Thank God people like you are no longer in charge. Maybe you should become a Muslim--you'd fit right in.
Now piss off.
NevilleRhysBarnes 1 year ago
@DeistPaladin I'm bored with this dialogue. You've got a vague theory that Europe bore, culture-wide, the psychology of the bankrupt, but no evidence to support it.
Meanwhile, you refuse to accept a very simple proposition, that in the right context Christianity can be a force for good. Sheer dogmatism, secular variety. You're not worth talking to. Goodbye.
NevilleRhysBarnes 1 year ago
@NevilleRhysBarnes I leave it to spectators to determine which one of us is clinging to dogma. It's my contention that your ignorance of even basic history combined with your flimsy rationalizations of scripture show that you're performing mental gymnastics to attribute society's greatest achievements to what demonstrably hindered it the most.
Is it so you can prop up your delusions of a friendly sky-daddy who will care for you in life and reunite you with your loved ones afterwords?
DeistPaladin 1 year ago
@DeistPaladin Oh, I get it. You think that I'm a Christian.
Listen: today Christianity has outlived its usefulness. But there were times in the past when it was a useful and powerful force.
You cannot deny it encouraged literacy. You cannot deny it preserved knowledge. You cannot deny it unified Europe, at least until the Reformation. There is a long list of such positive influences that you appear determined not to acknowledge.
Only a fool would take such a dogmatic stance.
NevilleRhysBarnes 1 year ago
@DeistPaladin So explain how the Renaissance started half a century BEFORE the Reformation.
NevilleRhysBarnes 1 year ago
@DeistPaladin Sociological progress helped by Christianity? Easy: slavery ended in the UK by Wilberforce and the Clapham Evangelicals. (Plenty more where that came from.)
If you're going to argue about this stuff for *&&^^% sake learn the subject. You seem to be arguing from a dogmatic, anti-religious stance that shows no real knowledge of history.
NevilleRhysBarnes 1 year ago
@NevilleRhysBarnes ROTFLMAO! Slavery ended by Christianity? You are joking, I hope? Slavery is heavily endorsed by and regulated within the Bible. Even Jesus uses slaves in his parables. The entire institution in America was justified by the "curse of Ham" myth. Point out a single passage in the Bible where slavery is outlawed and maybe I'll consider it.
It was a deist by the name of Lincoln who would eventually abolish the institution of slavery in America.
DeistPaladin 1 year ago
@DeistPaladin That's what happened. Read the history: Wilberforce and the Clapham Evangelicals. (Note that I specified slavery in the UK.)
You are confusing the Bible with Christianity. You are also guilty of a literal reading of the Bible. While figures like St. Paul didn't specifically attack the social order of his day, the principles he preached of the equality of all men, and idea of the work ethic (the worker is worthy of his wage), eventually spurred Christians to reject slavery.
NevilleRhysBarnes 1 year ago
@NevilleRhysBarnes The Bible IS Christianity. It's the holy book of Christianity. Perhaps you hadn't heard but it's supposed to be the revealed Word of God. Expressions of idealism that aren't supported by scripture are just that, the ideals of an individual. Nothing more.
Also, in what timescale does "eventually spurred" mean 2,000 years later? You can't expect me to take you seriously when you say things like this.
DeistPaladin 1 year ago
@DeistPaladin (1) It's only the "revealed word of God" to certain strands of Christianity. (2) The "expressions of idealism" we're discussing are in the Bible. (3) There are many references to slavery in the Bible, but no explicit support for slavery in the New Testament.
Actually, as Jacques Ellul points out, under the influence of Christianity slavery progressively disappeared from the Roman Empire. It was reintroduced to the Mediterranean world by Muslims.
NevilleRhysBarnes 1 year ago
@NevilleRhysBarnes No explicit support for slavery in the NT huh? Read the following verses:
1Cor 7:20-21, Eph 6:5, Col 3:22, Tit 9:10-11, 1Pet 2:18-19, 1Tim 6:1-6
Not much expression of idealism in these verses.
Christianity without the Bible isn't.
DeistPaladin 1 year ago
@DeistPaladin None of these verses explicitly support slavery. As I said earlier, Paul (et al) didn't attempt to overthrow the social order of their times. Christianity focussed on helping individuals deal with their individual situations. This was a realistic policy, as to try to overthrow slavery at that point would have been suicide.
BTW, where exactly is Tit 9: 10-11. Have you actually checked the references you're quoting?
NevilleRhysBarnes 1 year ago
@NevilleRhysBarnes Telling slaves to obey their masters and condemning those who oppose slavery isn't supporting slavery?
Tit 2:9 (sorry I got the number wrong) "Tell slaves to be submissive to their masters" That's not an endorsement of the practice of slavery? What do you want?
DeistPaladin 1 year ago
@DeistPaladin What did you expect Christians to say? "Slaves, start a revolution"? In the first century Roman Empire? Ever hear of Spartacus?
It's hard to imagine a more irresponsible position.
But in the long run Christianity did end slavery, first--to varying degrees--in the late Roman Empire, then again in the 19th C.
NevilleRhysBarnes 1 year ago
@NevilleRhysBarnes Oh, and please reference chapter and verse where Paul preached equality of men (which, should, btw, include women).
DeistPaladin 1 year ago
@DeistPaladin Easy. Galatians 3:28: "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus."
Christianity has frequently failed to live up to this ideal, but the sentiment was there and it has been a positive influence.
NevilleRhysBarnes 1 year ago
@NevilleRhysBarnes The reason no-one wants to share tech with them is because they will immediately move to obliterate jerusalem, and they feebly try to kill them regardless. They have yet to realize that if they EVER made a legit move against Israel it would just give us a wonderful reason to nuke their pitiful excuse of a society into oblivion.
TheRavic23 1 year ago
beautiful video... funi too.
i never thought about the flying to heaven in that way. If heaven is nor in the clouds but outside the universe then lol you hav to xplain how mohMAD survived subzero temps, black holes, radiation. Not to mention he would have to travel about 10000000000000 the speed of light ;)
keep it up! nd write a book on islam. Use fake name tho for obvious reasons lol ;)
<-- exmuslim atheist
kashif9595 1 year ago
where can I get that shirt?!?!?!
pjfislord 1 year ago
@20033716 well, for me quantum mechanics cannot explain everything, for example the exact location of an electron. so they created uncertainty principle. but still, despite its limitation it's a big discovery i believe. hm i was talking about Einstein theory of relativity regarding time dilation phenomena.
i think i had enough of these for now, i need to go to sleep, it' has passed bedtime in Malaysia right now. i need to go to work in the morning :D
electrobulb 1 year ago
@electrobulb Quantum mechanics opened the gates about the origin of this universe.Nobody understands Quantum mechanics and if someone says he knows Quantum mechanics it means he does not understand Quantum mechanics.But a conscious being need not fill that gap in the origin stories.The universe is fully capable of originating spontaneously out of nothing.
20033716 1 year ago
@20033716 oh, nothing personal. that was a previous comment i posted without typing "@your id" in it, so deleted it and typed a new one :D
haha nooo..it's not divine hand...it's the the way Quran were written, it's an allegory in arabic literature
electrobulb 1 year ago
Comment removed
electrobulb 1 year ago
@electrobulb I don't know what comment was here.I wouldn't mind if it was personal could have deleted after I had seen it
20033716 1 year ago
Comment removed
electrobulb 1 year ago
@20033716 consider a piece of paper with a tiny point drawn on it. that tiny point is the starting point of energy formed to start off the big bang, while the paper represents the space act as the container for the energy..that the law.if there's no space, the energy cannot be created. if energy is created out of nothingness there must be a space. then how the hell the Space get in there at the first place? there must be a Creator who had created it.
electrobulb 1 year ago
@electrobulb strawman argument but the creator needs a creator too by your logic.First the question of who created this universe is wrong because who always refers toa person.The laws of physics allow this universe to be created from nothing (read hiding behind the mirror by Lawrence Krauss and Steven Hawkings lectures).still dark matter constitutes 70% mass of this universe and we are not sure whether there are multiverses as well.Even if they are they don't interfere with ours and hence np
20033716 1 year ago
@20033716 yea, but why those laws of physics exist? Although it is possible for things such as particles to pop into existence from "nothing," it has never been shown that non-quantum-sized objects can perform such feats. Even if it were possible, why would it be expected that laws of physics that allow such events to occur would actually exist. Why wouldn't a true nothing consist of no laws of physics and no possibility of anything popping into existence.
electrobulb 1 year ago
@electrobulb laws of physics are mere observation of facts of nature.Non Quantum to Quantum happens only after inflation because of big bang.There were charged particles and oppositely charged particles were canceling each other and one such escaped charged proton was our universe. Quantum physics is more weirder than the Quran or the bible or the concept of God but the predictions of Quantum physics is so accurate that we cannot ignore.According to Quantum physics something can be from nothing
20033716 1 year ago
@DeistPaladin i know a logic answer to your question on why isa didnt follow Muhammad on his Buraq (flying unicorn) on the night of israk mikraj..if isa is a god or a son of god then, y bothered seeking for help of Muhammad to follow him down to earth to correct things right? as Christians and Muslim believe that God is Almighty..he can do things by his own will..so ur question is a proof to the incapability of isa...because he's a human just like Muhammad, as well as u and me..insyaAllah
electrobulb 1 year ago
@electrobulb well its not an inception movie you are explaining to be understood by logic.Muhammad existed Jesus did not.Atleast the biblicalquranic jesus did not exst.Muhammad did not go to heaven because there is no heaven.He is not a messenger of God because there is no God.
20033716 1 year ago
@20033716 There is a creator...it would be absurd if the explosion during big bang and the steady rate of expansion of universe after the explosion wasn't governed by some divine law, because that was before any matter to govern law of nature even existed. Muhammad talked about the creator, Jesus talked about creator who obviously..created him in Merriam's womb, and Muhammad talked about Jesus, but never mention him as the son of god, or Muhammad makes himself as god...so, yes there is one god.
electrobulb 1 year ago
@electrobulb First to assert that there is a creator is absurd.If there was a creator was he inside the proton or outside the proton.If he was outside the proton he cannot exhibit his energy inside this universe as it would violate law of conservation of energy.If he was inside he should obey the laws of universe which were formed some 10^-36 seconds after the bb.before big bang there was no energy which means God had no energy?If big bang theory is ok what about theory of evolution?
20033716 1 year ago
@20033716 Yes god had no energy because, He cannot be associated with any form of His creation, He is in His own form called as Dzat..means it not a physical attribute that can be described. if u don't believe to the existence of such things, explain to me about Black Matter, it's his creation in the form of energy, yet human failed to give precise explanation about it. let's say someday, someone can explain the theory of nothingness, then a new question would arise, who created "nothingness"?
electrobulb 1 year ago
@electrobulb since you believe in a Quranic God Allah who has a leg(Surah 68:42) has hands, which are biological evolutionary products happened atleast 10 billion years after the big bang.Humans started to research about this in the early 20th century after the advent of hubble telesc