why the hell are people arguing about 30-30s??? its a hunting round, the two compared here are miltiary rounds. tottaly diiferent ends of the spectrum. if you plan on going into a combat situation with anything chambered in 30-30, you are an idiot. and 5.56 is weak, jus sayin.
@boognish59 You do know at 600 yards the 5.56 still has the energy of a 9mm at close range? Not exactly ineffective. Not to mention, any hit is better than a miss.
I have a 223 Saiga and after watching this and other videos like this one...while I still like my 223, I feel that in close combat situations the knock down power of the 7.62 with it's low recoil compared to other 30 cal cartridges would for me probably be the way to go...I will probably get a Saiga 7.62 when I get the money. Nice video
Kalashnikov liked 7.62 x 39 much more and advocated to go on with this old round, but 5.45x39 is so much lighter and you can get to carry more ammo with it. They are both there today: 7.62 and 5.45. more power(7.62 can even go through brick walls) vs more ammo.
Of course the 7.62x39 is going to do better. the 5.56 is just a small piece of led going really fast, there is no weight behind it; put something in front of it and it'll stop. The 7.62 is a big piece of led with enough weight behind it traveling at a reasonable speed which means more damage down range. I used to think that the 5.56 was the holy grail of all military rounds. Now I realize that mr. Kalashnikov was right, the 7.62x39 is better than the 5.45x39.
I hope you realize Mr. Kalashnikov himself also designed the 5.45 and marketed as an improvement due to reduced recoil, increased accuracy, reduced weight, and equal killing power against unarmored targets when used with the air-tipped, steel core FMJ rounds.
7.62 is great for penetrating cover and engaging enemies behind it, though.
@TheBlackhorse1954 I could be wrong but i believe cowboy action competitions use lever action rifles, many of which are commonly chambered in .30-30. Im not going to knock the 5.56 but the .30-30 is far more lethal. You'd have to intentionally ignore the data not to know that. I dont understand why you keep mentioning competitions but if the targets shot back shooters would probably favor a more lethal round than .223; snipers do.
@utubegeneric 30-30 is often used to describe the power of 7.62x39mm. Gun writers such as Massad Ayoob, & Chuck Hawks describe 7.62x39mm as "30-30 Lite" I have heard the comparison numerous times. Similar bullet weight, similar velocity = Not completely unalike.
@utubegeneric Not trying to tell you your business. this was a good video and well made. just let people post what they want. it opens the conversation which will bring more viewers.
@lithjimmy 223 is a flat fast accurate shooting gun 30 30 drops alot more with more stopping power at 200 yards 223 will be tighter groups that why its more for snipers
@lithjimmy It is much easier to get multiple accurate shots off with a 5.56 or .223 than it is with a 30-30. Maybe that's why the military & most police depts use it. Ya think? Not to mention this vid is about 7.62 vs 5.56. Russia even went to a smaller, faster, easier to control round. I wonder if there was a reason for that?
@shananagans5 I don't think it was because the 5.45 was more deadly. I think they did it because they changed their war philosophy. Before they're plan was that they would send a swarm of soldiers into battle and all with ak 47s. They have since come to like the accuracy of m16's and therefore went to a cartridge that would offer similar capabilities. The 5.45 is close enough to the accuracy of the 5.56. If the 7.62x39 was more accurate then they would have stuck with it.
@lithjimmy Loading considerations and external, not terminal ballistic performance is why snipers favor calibers other than 5.56, which is extremely lethal (for humans). A 5.56 rifle is a far more effective weapon than a .30-30 for fighting armed men. Google "SDMR".
@lithjimmy I am with you on the data don't get me wrong. couple of facts here. Snipers use different weapons for range. .223/5.56 is accurate out to about 300 meters. snipers need MUCH more range. The caliber don't matter too much if you completely destroy the heart they can return fire for up to 15 seconds. you shoot until the target is eliminated. what caliber has a 100% 1 shot kill rate???? answer NONE. head shots while being shot at are not likely so don't suggest it.
Very nice, I like the 7.62x39mm even more now! Penetration definitely appears to be a major weak point for the 5.56, both in this test and in many others.
@idogodswork247 The extreme barrel flex exhibited by the AK in the video is not good for long-range accuracy. My tests show most AK's have 3-to-4 MOA accuracy, similar to a thin-barreled Ruger Mini-14 ranch rifle I tested several years ago. My Marlin 336 (made in 1981) will shoot well under 1 MOA at 100 yards with my handloads, and will shoot tighter groups at 300yds than an AK will at 100 yds.
Properly loaded, the 30-30 has much more power, range and accuracy than the AK's 7.62X39 cartridge.
Mrwiskeytango, 5.56 doesnt stress the gun more. A 5.56 has a slightly different chamber dimension than a 223 chamber. Mine is the 5.56 and will fire either. Thanks.
if teh gun is built for .223 DO NOT FIRE 5.56 ammo out of it. The 5.56 has a higher pressure, somewhere around 60,000 cups, while the .223 is aroun 30,000 cups I believe. The 5.56 stresses the gun more. It can cause damage to the throat, the barrel, the rifling, everything. Just dont do it @utubegeneric
Problems may occur when firing the higher-pressure 5.56mm cartridge in a .223 chamber, it can dramatically increase chamber pressure. In some cases, this higher pressure could result in primer pocket gas leaks, blown cartridge case heads and gun functioning issues. The 5.56mm military cartridge fired in a .223 Rem chamber is considered by SAAMI (Small Arm and Ammunition Manufacturers Institute) to be an unsafe ammunition combination.
@samstocker08 .223 is more around 50k 55k i believe but you are correct 5.56 is NOT recremended for use in a .223 cal rifle most rifles chambered for 5.56 can fire both
you should try the 5.56 next time it has a higher velocity.....and yes they are different its a good idea to avoid firing 5.56 in a gun chambered for the .223 because it causes too much stress on the gun, but you can fire .223 in a gun chambered in 5.56
@idogodswork247 Check this YT video, clearly showing the thin AK47 barrel's flex:
( youtube "DOT" com/watch?v=L_E_GJayano ).
Your "expertise" is clearly not in weapons.
Being able to lie convincingly could make you a good used car salesman though! Practice up a bit, in subjects where your lies are not so easily uncovered as I have done here, and you may have a used car selling career!
Very nice test! I also do alot of ammo testing! Of all my various caliber's/guns, the 7.62x39 is among my favorite! Though it may not pack the punch of my .308, it's still a pretty powerful round as w/FMJ bullets, it could penetrate 12" of wood and a steel shovel! and is somewhat inexpensive to shoot; i found 20 round boxes of Tula 7.62x39 ammo for about $5 a box!
I'm not fond of either of these rifles to be perfectly honest, considering them both over-hyped&priced. With modern ammo, the lowly 30-30 is much more accurate and deadlier than either of these "battle rifles".
The Marlin 336 30-30 is a FAR better rifle for most uses, losing out to AK/AR's only in close-range firepower. As range increases beyond 100yds, the Marlin's advantage over the AK/AR's grows tremendously due to its combinaton accuracy/power advantage.
@63DW89A, I don't think that I can agree with most of what you took the time to write, but that's OK. Use what you are comfortable and confident with.
@utubegeneric I have friends that agree with you, so I respect your opinion. And I thank you for your very informative efforts here in this excellent video.
I lived with the M16 and M14 during my USMC years. Got a lotta respect for the M14, & a bit less for the M16.
Let's just say recent tests of a Marlin 30-30 with Hornady Flex-tip ammo really opened my eyes, & made me rethink current "combat rifle" thinking.
Marlins are ACCURATE, inexpensive, & available used, off-the-record.
@63DW89A Those guns are made for COMPLETELY different purposes. AR's and AK's are meant for combat UP to around 300 yards.. They are not meant to hunt bear or deer with. The 30-30 is too much power for the intended uses of AK's and AR's.. Too much recoil and too slow of firing.. (Your lever action example) The 30-30 is a compromise between medium and high powered hunting cartridges. Completely different...
@YamahaWR200 Yes, I think you make good points and very accurate statements here.
However, the inexpensive Marlin 336 30-30 is the more versatile and capable performer, and a better SHTF rifle. It is a better hunting tool. If used by a capable rifleman wise enough to keep AR/AK's at long distance, it would also easily outperform them as a distance combat weapon.
AK/ARs at close range would be a problem, but a wise Marlin rifleman would never let that happen.
@63DW89A Ha that depends on what kind of poop is hitting the fan.. ha ha I personally feel the 22lr is the BEST SHTF caliber there is. In a semi-auto. But that is a whole different argument. All the different calibers have their place. I agree that the 30-30 is more versatile and capable. But a lever action 30-30 would have major trouble trying to shoot at a built AR in 223 at 500+ yards.. And people are fragile, so you don't need much power to take them out.
@YamahaWR200 Don't like the 22LR as it isn't reloadable. Like the 30-30 'cause I can reload it in many different ways. Using oven-treated cast 150gr gas-checked LFN's in the 28 BHN range I can get 2500 fps and shoot combat flat to 300+yds, and much harder hitting than ,223 or 7.62X39. The Hornady 150gr SST's at 2400 fps don't drop to transonic until 700 yds, and your built AR would have a lot of trouble going up against that! Of course the 150gr SST IS load-one-at-a-time in the Marlin....
I personally think most 223 AR's are plenty accurate enough to be able to use where shot placement is key, whether powerful enough is always debated.
I also think the 7.62x39 has a good track record hunting too.
The AR is available in numerous calibers to. I think the 6.8 SPCII is equal or better than the 30-30 in many aspects. Hornady makes a 120gr SST that moves about 2550 fps out of 16" barrel and what I built for medium game (whitetail) hunting.
@utubegeneric Possibly I've only fired bad AK47's but I've never fired any that gave decent enough accuracy to humanely kill a deer much beyond 100yds due to poor accuracy.
I'm a bit leery of the .223 for deer, but I do know those who have taken deer with it. I've never fired the 6.8 SPCII, but would expect it to give close to .270 results.
The one thing I DO respect about the AR is its adaptability. Last gun show has me thinking of buying a frame and building a lower receiver.....
@63DW89A I agree.. I just like 22lr cause you can literally carry 5k+ rounds on you no problem in a backpack.. That's all.. And again, I agree the 30-30 is much more powerful. But like I said, people are fragile. And if you are shooting 150gr bullets @ 2500 fps, you are shooting at almost 308 power, which means you are beating your gun up pretty hard.. You are definitely running too high of pressures..
@YamahaWR200 The new Hodgdon LeverEvolution powder keeps the pressures in safe range, especially on the heat-treated cast bullets I'm using. I can actually move the 150gr cast bullet at 2500 fps at slightly lower pressures than the 150 gr SST at 2400 fps. But the cast LFN (BC 0.264) just won't retain the velocity the SST (BC 0.415) will at long range.
But you are correct, I am running at the absolute limits of 30-30 power, while keeping pressures just under SAMMI specs, thanks to LE powder!
@steve369ca Check the ballistics on the Hornady LeverEvolution Ammo for 30-30 and you will see that your statement is 100% inaccurate. With the Hornady 160 gr flex tip boat-tailed ammo, the 30-30 totally outperforms the AK 47 and M16 / AR 15. And a Marlin 336 in particular will shoot rings around the AK 47 accuracy-wise. Also, with a little creative hand loading,the 30-30 can be accurate and deadly to about 700 yards, although the ammo must be loaded one-round-at-a-time!
@63DW89A The only thing that limits the AK-47 is it's sights. Now you can buy an after market peep sight that mounts on the rear of the dust cover which has been proven to hold 1 1/2 moa @ 100 yards with wolf steel cased ammo. Don't get me wrong the 336 is a great gun for what it is. You're not going to be able to chew cover up even half as fast as an AK-47 will be able to. And you are limited to 7 or 8 rounds where the AK can have up to 75rds with a drum mag. Plus you can load 10x's faster.
@mojsmg The AK 47 wins the firepower contest, no question. The Marlin 336 wins the accuracy contest, hands down. After all it IS a hunting rifle, intended to precisely place one bullet for a humane kill.
And that is precisly how the Marlin defeats the AK, by hunting him, keeping him at long range and precisely placing one bullet for a clean kill. It is an intentional, selected kill, not an accident of "spray & pray" firepower.
It is accurate-aimed-fire that rules beyond 100 yds.
@63DW89A A well made AK-47 varant can shoot @ or even just under 1 moa @ 100 yards. Just as accurate as a Marlin 336. Check out nutnfacy's videos on the Arsenal AK's. He also has another video on a new set of after market peep sights for the AK-47 that he was able to shoot 1 moa groups with.
So the AK-47 is just as accurate as the 336 Marlin. The only thing the 336 has over the AK-47 is the slighty more powerful 30-30 Winchester round it uses.
@mojsmg That is not my experience with AK 47's. The ones I've fired are sloppy, with bench-rest accuracy of about 4 MOA, which is very poor rifle accuracy by my standards. The only positive things I can say about the AK 47 is it is one of the most relible automatic rifles I've ever fired, and it is relatively easy to use for an untrained person. Except for bad ammo, I don't recall an AK I've fired, ever failing to cycle and fire.
@63DW89A I didn't think it was true, when the sales rep from Arsenal said thier AK's can hold 1 moa @ 100 yards, untill I seen it done. Since then I've learned that you can even get a cheap WASR-10/63 to hold under 2 moa. To do this you must have the barrel re-crowned & cryo, after that even the cheap WASR-10/63 will hold some nice groups so long as you have eather after market ppep sights or a mount with optics.
@mojsmg I can see where the addition of a heavier barrel would considerably improve the AK47's accuracy, as it would with any rifle. The main problem with stock AK's is major barrel flex when firing, due to the thin stock barrel. Barrel flex of its thin barrel was also a major problem with the Ruger Mini-14 Ranch Rifle I owned several years ago,that made it shoot 3-4 MOA groups too. That's when I dumped the "battle rifle's" in favor of the Marlin. Sub-MOA, no mods needed, & under $250 used!!
@63DW89A the ak 47 is only about $75-$100 more than a 336. the ak uses a spire point bullet which has a higher BC than a flat nose so it retains its energy over a longer distance. it is actually the same caliber and velocity as a .30-30, but has less recoil due to it being a semi auto. the sights are graduated for distance, and it can hold plenty of ammo if you ever need it. ammo is much cheaper too. with iron sights, mine shoots 3" at 100yds. seems like a win win to me. just my $0.02
@TacticalTuckFard I can pick up used Marlin 336's here in TN for $250, off the record with no paper trail. My 1980-vintage 336 will shoot sub-moa 100yd groups (scoped),with Hornady Leverevolution ammo, that uses a pointed boat-tailed bullet with much better range and energy than the AK. WIth peep-sights the Marlin will group 2" at 100 yds, or 1.5" if I'm having a good day.
You must have a good AK, because the several I've fired can barely stay on a 9" paper plate at 100yds.
@63DW89A that's some pretty good shooting with iron sight and you can't argue with that. i forgot about the hornady polymer tipped rounds. you've made a good point. as for the AK, the sights suck. it takes practice to get good groups with them. all i shoot is the AK so i've gotten decent with it. most AK's in good condition are mechanically capable of 2-3" groups at 100yds. the sight radius is really the limiting factor on those guns.
@63DW89A But you also have to consider, a well manufactured bolt action or semi automatic rifle in either .223 or 7.62x39 can be ten time more effective then in there battle rifle form. I.E. CZ-USA's 527 carbine in both these calibers
@TXKing65 Yes, no argument there. Well-made bolt rifles are accurate and reliable. Plus you can load a mag full of high-BC pointed boat-tailed bullets. I can use high-BC pointed boat-tailed bullets in my Marlin, BUT I'm limited to one in the chamber and one in the mag for safety. A good Marlin is as accurate as a bolt rifle, and the 30-30 with high BC bullets can accurately shoot about 700 yds. A BIG advantage of the Marlin is it's easy to find them used, inexpensive and off-the-record!
@63DW89A Are you kidding! The Marlin 336 in 30-30 doesn't come close to the 7.62X39 round. Even when you take into consideration the new Hornandy LeveRevolution rounds that pushes it 400 feet faster and can shoot out to maybe 250 yards max, the 30-30 round is pretty much regulated to brush gun status. And the AK-47 and the bullets (7.62X39) are cheaper and ballistically much superior to the 30-30. You obviously don't know guns.
@TheBlackhorse1954 You obviously don't know ballistics and do not reload. The Hornady 160gr FTX @ 2400 fps will shoot on a 9-inch trajectory to 300 yds. That's flatter than the 7.62X39 123gr@2400fps, and MUCH flatter than the 7.62X39 150gr @2100 fps. The 160gr FTX 30-30 hits much harder than either, plus a Marlin 336 is much more accurate than an AK. The 30-30 160gr FTX doesn't go transonic until 550yds, while the 123Gr AK round goes transonic at 400yds. The 30-30 leaves the AK in the dust!
CONT: The 30-30 can be reloaded with high BC boat-tailed spitzers like the Speer 150gr BTSP (BC 0.423). While such a bullet must be loaded single-shot in a tubular mag Marlin 336, loaded to 2400fps, the Speer 150 gr BTSP doesn't drop to transonic velocity until 700 yds. Actual ballistics show the 30-30 to be incredibly capable and versatile, much more so than the 7.62X39.
Transonic velocity is very important in longe range accurate shooting.
@63DW89A Obviously I do know ballistics and I no longer reload, but did for years. I also have killed more game than you will ever kill using a Marlin 336 30-30. And you are full of shit trying to convince others out here that you are shooting sub 1" groups anything over 200 yards with a lever action rifle. I don't care who you try to bs, but you should know there are people in the world that can smell a bull shitter and you're one.
@TheBlackhorse1954 Funny that a "ballistics expert" such as yourself resorts to foul language and other such verbal smoke the very second your "expert opinion" is revealed to be wrong in public.
If you have access to, and the knowlege to use, a ballistics program, run the Hornady 160gr FTX 30-30 bullet at 2400fps. The FTX BC is 0.330.
I'll speak to you in ballistics and trajectories, not the foul-mouthed smoke you've demonstrated your expertise in.
@TheBlackhorse1954 Also to show up your attempt at distorting my previous statements, I clearly stated in previous comments that my 1981-era Marlin will shoot sub-MOA groups at 100yds, when scoped, and solidly bench-rested, using the 160gr FTX 30-30 Hornady bullet. Using peep sights on the Marlin I can shoot sub-2" groups at 100yds using the same load, often around 1.5" on a good day.
Marlin 336's are extremely accurate rifles, capable of approaching bolt-action accuracy.
@63DW89A just can't leave it alone can you. Ok - if this 30-30 round is so good, name one state, regional or national match that it's won in - oh - lets say the last 100 years. Name me one bolt action rifle in 30-30 that's ever won a marksmanship competition because we know there's never been a lever action that has. Yet I'll be willing to bet there's been local competitions within the last couple weeks where the 5.56 is willing matches. Not to mention national, region and state.
Why do many shooters choose a 5.56 over any 30 cal for target shooting? Same reason CAS shooters choose 38 Special mouse loads over heavy-recoiling 45 Colt black powder loads that duplicate original 1873 ballistics. To win the game. But it's a game. The 45 Colt black powder load dropped grizzly and buffalo on the real frontier; the 38 Special game-winning mouse loads has nowhere near that capability.
CONT: It is easy to drink the Kool-Aid, follow the herd and talk yourself into choosing an overpriced 22 cal varmint rifle as a combat rifle. There are serious calibers that have quietly worked long before the .223/5.56 existed, that still work much better in the real world. A big plus is that many of these weapons exist used, at very good prices and no paperwork.
Sometimes it is best to think outside the box and move away from the herd.
@63DW89A Your question just shows your ignorance. The 30-30 first made it's debut in the late 1800's. And it is designed as a hunting round. The 5.56 is a military round, not designed for hunting and was adopted by the military in the early 1960's. Duh. And it's not widely accepted as a hunting round for big game even today. Many states ban the round for hunting deer. Still waiting for that list of national championships won by 30-30.
The 5.56 has light recoil, is easy to shoot and for that reason is a great target round. Most states will not accept the 5.56 as legal for large game as it lacks real world killing power, particularly as range increases. The 30-30 has been a game killer since its 1895 arrival.
Now, which is the most practical "societal collapse" rifle? Marlin 336's can be picked up used for $250. AR15's cost 3-to-4-times more for less capability.
@63DW89A really 3-4 times more???? i have a ar-15 it cost me 650 and thats only because it came with scope front rail hand grip and adjustable stock. now as for your 30-30 round it's designed for hunting animals thats it there is no winners of any regional state national or international that shoots a 30-30 but there is thousands upon thousands that win with the 5.56 all the time
@63DW89A also almost anyone will take an ar-15 over a marlin 336 put the two side by side and you can obviously tell which is the better weapon a stock ar-15 with 5.56 can hit 400-600m accurately a stock marlin 336 with a 30-30 hits 150-300 yards accurately your also extremely limited to any modifications while ar-15 is completely adaptable to any situation
@atc51rams The 30-30 hits much harder than the .223 and is a far better hunting weapon. With proper handloading the 30-30 can reach 700 yards accurately. The Marlin is every bit as accurate as the .223. I can train a non-shooter to handle a Marlin lever action MUCH more quickly than an AR platform. Plus I can buy 4 Marlins for the price of a single AR.
For Emergency Prep in my book, the Marlin lever action totally smokes the overpriced AR's in a real world where families have budgets!
@63DW89A i wasn't talking about a .223 i was talking about the 5.56 which hits harder than the .223 and no way your marlin is hitting 700 yards idc what you say about and if you want to go the route of handloading i can handload a 5.56 and make it hit harder and go farther than any 30-30 can and if your on a budget then get a pistol stop bugging us with your worthless argument
@63DW89A Really ? You can't even field strip a 336 without tools. So no way you could train a non-shoot to handle that weapon for any long period of time. All you have to do is drop the 336 in sand, drit, mud with the action open(and thats when it'll drop in mid cycle) and that 336 will be done. The 336 takes atleast 10 to 15 mins to break down and clean & thats with a very good gunsmith. The 336 is a great hunting rifle but a bad combat rifle. AR's & AK's smoke 336's in real world combat.
see wat I dont like about the AK is the round its a sniper round to me and for an AR I dont want the problem of over penetration which the AK has no thats good for spraying threw walls bad for hitting someone with a say VIP behind them.
This only tells part of the story. Water is not the best medium to test penentration. For instance a 45ACP will penetrate deeper into water than a 50 BMG. It has a lot more to due with velocity, the lower the better into water.
If you compare a 556 against 7.62X39 into a concrete wall, or steel the 556 penetrates way further. They become similar through wood.
In short, 556 is better against hard targets, 762X39 better penetration against more liquid targets due to lower velocity.
@AKEVELFAN Incorrect. 7.62x39mm will penetrate 30cm of concrete at 50yds or more. A 5.56x45 will not. Similar things are true of most any substance. The only thing the 5.56 has over the old 7.62 is that it shoots more flat with most platforms, and sometimes, over penetration can be a bad thing, too.
There are dozens of videos here on youtube I submit as evidence of 556 superiority through steel. A couple come up on the screen at the end of this one. I cannot get a link to post.
I am looking for evidence in concrete, I watched one just the other day showing this. 556 and 7.62x39 are very simlar through wood, and 7.62x39 is superior through more liquid substances liek sand, mud and water.
I will publicly stand corrected if I am mistaken about concrete.
What brand and type of ammo did you use in both rifles? I'm a big ak fan, just hoping the test was fair. I hope it was:) Cant wait to show this to all my ar-15 friends.
I like and own both the AR and AK and don't really get into the "which gun is better" kind of debate. The test was as unbiased as it could be done. No big surprise that 7.62x39 penetrated better than 223.
Though, from my testing in other video's that are on youtube, the 6.8 spc seems to have a flatter trajectory and with less tumbling when going through 5 milk jugs than 7.62x39 too which would indicate the 6.8 would be better in some situations.
@utubegeneric I tatally agree, I have both, or had both, and they are diff guns for diff applications. Its kind of funny how diff rounds react in diff situations. Like a 556 disapates its energy quicker in water and doesnt penetrate as far but then in wood the smaller bullet and higher speed allow it to penetrate better than a 762. Also the twist rate effects it. There are so many things that effect bullet performance its kind of fascinating because its not obvious how diff things effect a round
Tumbling is better. That's the major design improvement from the original M43 to the M67. End over end leaves a larger permanent wound tract than the original penciling directly through.
Great demonstration. That is why I hunt with my custom built 7.62x39 AR15. I rarely would be in a position to take a shot past 250 yards in the part of the country I live.
7.62x39 is the best at what its designed to do. people try to take this round and hit targets at long distances and then they bitch about how unaccurate it is. that is stupid ITS NOT MADE FOR THAT!!!! its made for close to midrange combat witch is were all the action is gonna take place anyway. i can hide behind a tree and ur 223 cant hit me but if u hide behind a tree well u better go ahead and start praying haha. 7.62x39 all day baby whoot whoot!!!!
@MrAppleseed88 in what world war 2? engagements at that range rarely happend in vietnam. most certainly didnt happen often in iraq, ill give you afghanistan. nothing against .223 I think it is a very versatile round and deadly. but it has nothing on a 7.62x39 inside of 200 yards after that the .223 wins.
This shows the 7.62 is to much ammo for what is needed which is why I prefer the .223 its more accurate and damages the target not whats behind it.Great job.
Thank you. It was nothing more than an old scope ring that I drilled and tapped for 1/4-20 threads turned upside down when mounted to the scope. Simple 20 minute project.
That's why I never own any rifle smaller than 7.62
55bobito 3 weeks ago
Haha an all the way that's why I love my saiga 7.62 cus its not no .223 piece of shit.
gentrythomas1 3 weeks ago
why the hell are people arguing about 30-30s??? its a hunting round, the two compared here are miltiary rounds. tottaly diiferent ends of the spectrum. if you plan on going into a combat situation with anything chambered in 30-30, you are an idiot. and 5.56 is weak, jus sayin.
SNIPERSTEVE420 2 months ago
@boognish59 You do know at 600 yards the 5.56 still has the energy of a 9mm at close range? Not exactly ineffective. Not to mention, any hit is better than a miss.
shananagans5 2 months ago
7.62x39 FTW
Blown4banger 3 months ago
I have a 223 Saiga and after watching this and other videos like this one...while I still like my 223, I feel that in close combat situations the knock down power of the 7.62 with it's low recoil compared to other 30 cal cartridges would for me probably be the way to go...I will probably get a Saiga 7.62 when I get the money. Nice video
TheJaxonj 3 months ago
Kalashnikov liked 7.62 x 39 much more and advocated to go on with this old round, but 5.45x39 is so much lighter and you can get to carry more ammo with it. They are both there today: 7.62 and 5.45. more power(7.62 can even go through brick walls) vs more ammo.
Ma3gau 3 months ago
Of course the 7.62x39 is going to do better. the 5.56 is just a small piece of led going really fast, there is no weight behind it; put something in front of it and it'll stop. The 7.62 is a big piece of led with enough weight behind it traveling at a reasonable speed which means more damage down range. I used to think that the 5.56 was the holy grail of all military rounds. Now I realize that mr. Kalashnikov was right, the 7.62x39 is better than the 5.45x39.
Rossco139 3 months ago
@Rossco139
I hope you realize Mr. Kalashnikov himself also designed the 5.45 and marketed as an improvement due to reduced recoil, increased accuracy, reduced weight, and equal killing power against unarmored targets when used with the air-tipped, steel core FMJ rounds.
7.62 is great for penetrating cover and engaging enemies behind it, though.
Tezcatlepocatl 3 months ago
this is y i like my sks
monstarmarkum 4 months ago
@TheBlackhorse1954 I could be wrong but i believe cowboy action competitions use lever action rifles, many of which are commonly chambered in .30-30. Im not going to knock the 5.56 but the .30-30 is far more lethal. You'd have to intentionally ignore the data not to know that. I dont understand why you keep mentioning competitions but if the targets shot back shooters would probably favor a more lethal round than .223; snipers do.
lithjimmy 4 months ago 2
@lithjimmy
I don't know any snipers who prefer 30-30.
There are so many better alternatives that will allow a sniper to effectively do their job.
Hopefully this will stop all these posts about 30-30's, because they don't have a thing to do with this video or 7.62x39 or 5.56.
If you want to make a video using it, go ahead and do it. If you want to discuss 30-30's, please do it somewhere else.
I don't want to disable comments, but I will if it continues.
Please stay on topic
utubegeneric 4 months ago
@utubegeneric 30-30 is often used to describe the power of 7.62x39mm. Gun writers such as Massad Ayoob, & Chuck Hawks describe 7.62x39mm as "30-30 Lite" I have heard the comparison numerous times. Similar bullet weight, similar velocity = Not completely unalike.
Friedstuffsable 3 months ago
@utubegeneric Not trying to tell you your business. this was a good video and well made. just let people post what they want. it opens the conversation which will bring more viewers.
fireman66767 5 days ago
@lithjimmy 223 is a flat fast accurate shooting gun 30 30 drops alot more with more stopping power at 200 yards 223 will be tighter groups that why its more for snipers
skateboy159 2 months ago
@lithjimmy It is much easier to get multiple accurate shots off with a 5.56 or .223 than it is with a 30-30. Maybe that's why the military & most police depts use it. Ya think? Not to mention this vid is about 7.62 vs 5.56. Russia even went to a smaller, faster, easier to control round. I wonder if there was a reason for that?
shananagans5 2 months ago
@shananagans5 I don't think it was because the 5.45 was more deadly. I think they did it because they changed their war philosophy. Before they're plan was that they would send a swarm of soldiers into battle and all with ak 47s. They have since come to like the accuracy of m16's and therefore went to a cartridge that would offer similar capabilities. The 5.45 is close enough to the accuracy of the 5.56. If the 7.62x39 was more accurate then they would have stuck with it.
bangmeister 1 week ago
@lithjimmy Loading considerations and external, not terminal ballistic performance is why snipers favor calibers other than 5.56, which is extremely lethal (for humans). A 5.56 rifle is a far more effective weapon than a .30-30 for fighting armed men. Google "SDMR".
barccy 2 weeks ago
@lithjimmy I am with you on the data don't get me wrong. couple of facts here. Snipers use different weapons for range. .223/5.56 is accurate out to about 300 meters. snipers need MUCH more range. The caliber don't matter too much if you completely destroy the heart they can return fire for up to 15 seconds. you shoot until the target is eliminated. what caliber has a 100% 1 shot kill rate???? answer NONE. head shots while being shot at are not likely so don't suggest it.
fireman66767 5 days ago
save a AR, shoot an AK!
mxmotocross138 4 months ago
Very nice, I like the 7.62x39mm even more now! Penetration definitely appears to be a major weak point for the 5.56, both in this test and in many others.
zams650 4 months ago
@idogodswork247 The extreme barrel flex exhibited by the AK in the video is not good for long-range accuracy. My tests show most AK's have 3-to-4 MOA accuracy, similar to a thin-barreled Ruger Mini-14 ranch rifle I tested several years ago. My Marlin 336 (made in 1981) will shoot well under 1 MOA at 100 yards with my handloads, and will shoot tighter groups at 300yds than an AK will at 100 yds.
Properly loaded, the 30-30 has much more power, range and accuracy than the AK's 7.62X39 cartridge.
63DW89A 4 months ago
Mrwiskeytango, 5.56 doesnt stress the gun more. A 5.56 has a slightly different chamber dimension than a 223 chamber. Mine is the 5.56 and will fire either. Thanks.
utubegeneric 4 months ago
if teh gun is built for .223 DO NOT FIRE 5.56 ammo out of it. The 5.56 has a higher pressure, somewhere around 60,000 cups, while the .223 is aroun 30,000 cups I believe. The 5.56 stresses the gun more. It can cause damage to the throat, the barrel, the rifling, everything. Just dont do it @utubegeneric
samstocker08 4 months ago
@samstocker08
Again, a 5.56 and .223 are different specs. The 5.56 has a thicker case, and a different chamber.
5.56 chamber (and wylde chamber) are larger than .223 and why you can fire 223 out of a 5.56 chamber.
It has nothing to do with stress. The 223 is just too small of a chamber to use the slightly larger 5.56 in it.
utubegeneric 4 months ago
Problems may occur when firing the higher-pressure 5.56mm cartridge in a .223 chamber, it can dramatically increase chamber pressure. In some cases, this higher pressure could result in primer pocket gas leaks, blown cartridge case heads and gun functioning issues. The 5.56mm military cartridge fired in a .223 Rem chamber is considered by SAAMI (Small Arm and Ammunition Manufacturers Institute) to be an unsafe ammunition combination.
samstocker08 4 months ago
@samstocker08 .223 is more around 50k 55k i believe but you are correct 5.56 is NOT recremended for use in a .223 cal rifle most rifles chambered for 5.56 can fire both
crashdummy40 4 months ago
you should try the 5.56 next time it has a higher velocity.....and yes they are different its a good idea to avoid firing 5.56 in a gun chambered for the .223 because it causes too much stress on the gun, but you can fire .223 in a gun chambered in 5.56
MrWiskytango 4 months ago
@idogodswork247 Check this YT video, clearly showing the thin AK47 barrel's flex:
( youtube "DOT" com/watch?v=L_E_GJayano ).
Your "expertise" is clearly not in weapons.
Being able to lie convincingly could make you a good used car salesman though! Practice up a bit, in subjects where your lies are not so easily uncovered as I have done here, and you may have a used car selling career!
63DW89A 4 months ago
Yes exactly what ammo did you use for each shot?
Hutzjohn 5 months ago
Very nice test! I also do alot of ammo testing! Of all my various caliber's/guns, the 7.62x39 is among my favorite! Though it may not pack the punch of my .308, it's still a pretty powerful round as w/FMJ bullets, it could penetrate 12" of wood and a steel shovel! and is somewhat inexpensive to shoot; i found 20 round boxes of Tula 7.62x39 ammo for about $5 a box!
m1shadow 5 months ago
I'm not fond of either of these rifles to be perfectly honest, considering them both over-hyped&priced. With modern ammo, the lowly 30-30 is much more accurate and deadlier than either of these "battle rifles".
The Marlin 336 30-30 is a FAR better rifle for most uses, losing out to AK/AR's only in close-range firepower. As range increases beyond 100yds, the Marlin's advantage over the AK/AR's grows tremendously due to its combinaton accuracy/power advantage.
63DW89A 6 months ago
@63DW89A, I don't think that I can agree with most of what you took the time to write, but that's OK. Use what you are comfortable and confident with.
utubegeneric 6 months ago 2
@utubegeneric I have friends that agree with you, so I respect your opinion. And I thank you for your very informative efforts here in this excellent video.
I lived with the M16 and M14 during my USMC years. Got a lotta respect for the M14, & a bit less for the M16.
Let's just say recent tests of a Marlin 30-30 with Hornady Flex-tip ammo really opened my eyes, & made me rethink current "combat rifle" thinking.
Marlins are ACCURATE, inexpensive, & available used, off-the-record.
63DW89A 6 months ago
@63DW89A Those guns are made for COMPLETELY different purposes. AR's and AK's are meant for combat UP to around 300 yards.. They are not meant to hunt bear or deer with. The 30-30 is too much power for the intended uses of AK's and AR's.. Too much recoil and too slow of firing.. (Your lever action example) The 30-30 is a compromise between medium and high powered hunting cartridges. Completely different...
YamahaWR200 6 months ago
@YamahaWR200 Yes, I think you make good points and very accurate statements here.
However, the inexpensive Marlin 336 30-30 is the more versatile and capable performer, and a better SHTF rifle. It is a better hunting tool. If used by a capable rifleman wise enough to keep AR/AK's at long distance, it would also easily outperform them as a distance combat weapon.
AK/ARs at close range would be a problem, but a wise Marlin rifleman would never let that happen.
Just out-of-box thinking...
63DW89A 6 months ago
@63DW89A Ha that depends on what kind of poop is hitting the fan.. ha ha I personally feel the 22lr is the BEST SHTF caliber there is. In a semi-auto. But that is a whole different argument. All the different calibers have their place. I agree that the 30-30 is more versatile and capable. But a lever action 30-30 would have major trouble trying to shoot at a built AR in 223 at 500+ yards.. And people are fragile, so you don't need much power to take them out.
YamahaWR200 6 months ago
@YamahaWR200 Don't like the 22LR as it isn't reloadable. Like the 30-30 'cause I can reload it in many different ways. Using oven-treated cast 150gr gas-checked LFN's in the 28 BHN range I can get 2500 fps and shoot combat flat to 300+yds, and much harder hitting than ,223 or 7.62X39. The Hornady 150gr SST's at 2400 fps don't drop to transonic until 700 yds, and your built AR would have a lot of trouble going up against that! Of course the 150gr SST IS load-one-at-a-time in the Marlin....
63DW89A 6 months ago
I personally think most 223 AR's are plenty accurate enough to be able to use where shot placement is key, whether powerful enough is always debated.
I also think the 7.62x39 has a good track record hunting too.
The AR is available in numerous calibers to. I think the 6.8 SPCII is equal or better than the 30-30 in many aspects. Hornady makes a 120gr SST that moves about 2550 fps out of 16" barrel and what I built for medium game (whitetail) hunting.
check out 68forums dot com
utubegeneric 6 months ago
@utubegeneric Possibly I've only fired bad AK47's but I've never fired any that gave decent enough accuracy to humanely kill a deer much beyond 100yds due to poor accuracy.
I'm a bit leery of the .223 for deer, but I do know those who have taken deer with it. I've never fired the 6.8 SPCII, but would expect it to give close to .270 results.
The one thing I DO respect about the AR is its adaptability. Last gun show has me thinking of buying a frame and building a lower receiver.....
63DW89A 6 months ago
@63DW89A I agree.. I just like 22lr cause you can literally carry 5k+ rounds on you no problem in a backpack.. That's all.. And again, I agree the 30-30 is much more powerful. But like I said, people are fragile. And if you are shooting 150gr bullets @ 2500 fps, you are shooting at almost 308 power, which means you are beating your gun up pretty hard.. You are definitely running too high of pressures..
YamahaWR200 6 months ago
@YamahaWR200 The new Hodgdon LeverEvolution powder keeps the pressures in safe range, especially on the heat-treated cast bullets I'm using. I can actually move the 150gr cast bullet at 2500 fps at slightly lower pressures than the 150 gr SST at 2400 fps. But the cast LFN (BC 0.264) just won't retain the velocity the SST (BC 0.415) will at long range.
But you are correct, I am running at the absolute limits of 30-30 power, while keeping pressures just under SAMMI specs, thanks to LE powder!
63DW89A 6 months ago
@63DW89A
Go out past 150 yards and the 30-30 loses any and all advantages you seem to think it has
steve369ca 5 months ago
@steve369ca Check the ballistics on the Hornady LeverEvolution Ammo for 30-30 and you will see that your statement is 100% inaccurate. With the Hornady 160 gr flex tip boat-tailed ammo, the 30-30 totally outperforms the AK 47 and M16 / AR 15. And a Marlin 336 in particular will shoot rings around the AK 47 accuracy-wise. Also, with a little creative hand loading,the 30-30 can be accurate and deadly to about 700 yards, although the ammo must be loaded one-round-at-a-time!
63DW89A 5 months ago
@63DW89A The only thing that limits the AK-47 is it's sights. Now you can buy an after market peep sight that mounts on the rear of the dust cover which has been proven to hold 1 1/2 moa @ 100 yards with wolf steel cased ammo. Don't get me wrong the 336 is a great gun for what it is. You're not going to be able to chew cover up even half as fast as an AK-47 will be able to. And you are limited to 7 or 8 rounds where the AK can have up to 75rds with a drum mag. Plus you can load 10x's faster.
mojsmg 5 months ago
@mojsmg The AK 47 wins the firepower contest, no question. The Marlin 336 wins the accuracy contest, hands down. After all it IS a hunting rifle, intended to precisely place one bullet for a humane kill.
And that is precisly how the Marlin defeats the AK, by hunting him, keeping him at long range and precisely placing one bullet for a clean kill. It is an intentional, selected kill, not an accident of "spray & pray" firepower.
It is accurate-aimed-fire that rules beyond 100 yds.
63DW89A 5 months ago
@63DW89A A well made AK-47 varant can shoot @ or even just under 1 moa @ 100 yards. Just as accurate as a Marlin 336. Check out nutnfacy's videos on the Arsenal AK's. He also has another video on a new set of after market peep sights for the AK-47 that he was able to shoot 1 moa groups with.
So the AK-47 is just as accurate as the 336 Marlin. The only thing the 336 has over the AK-47 is the slighty more powerful 30-30 Winchester round it uses.
mojsmg 5 months ago
@mojsmg That is not my experience with AK 47's. The ones I've fired are sloppy, with bench-rest accuracy of about 4 MOA, which is very poor rifle accuracy by my standards. The only positive things I can say about the AK 47 is it is one of the most relible automatic rifles I've ever fired, and it is relatively easy to use for an untrained person. Except for bad ammo, I don't recall an AK I've fired, ever failing to cycle and fire.
63DW89A 5 months ago
@63DW89A I didn't think it was true, when the sales rep from Arsenal said thier AK's can hold 1 moa @ 100 yards, untill I seen it done. Since then I've learned that you can even get a cheap WASR-10/63 to hold under 2 moa. To do this you must have the barrel re-crowned & cryo, after that even the cheap WASR-10/63 will hold some nice groups so long as you have eather after market ppep sights or a mount with optics.
mojsmg 5 months ago
@mojsmg I can see where the addition of a heavier barrel would considerably improve the AK47's accuracy, as it would with any rifle. The main problem with stock AK's is major barrel flex when firing, due to the thin stock barrel. Barrel flex of its thin barrel was also a major problem with the Ruger Mini-14 Ranch Rifle I owned several years ago,that made it shoot 3-4 MOA groups too. That's when I dumped the "battle rifle's" in favor of the Marlin. Sub-MOA, no mods needed, & under $250 used!!
63DW89A 5 months ago
Comment removed
63DW89A 5 months ago
@63DW89A the ak 47 is only about $75-$100 more than a 336. the ak uses a spire point bullet which has a higher BC than a flat nose so it retains its energy over a longer distance. it is actually the same caliber and velocity as a .30-30, but has less recoil due to it being a semi auto. the sights are graduated for distance, and it can hold plenty of ammo if you ever need it. ammo is much cheaper too. with iron sights, mine shoots 3" at 100yds. seems like a win win to me. just my $0.02
TacticalTuckFard 5 months ago
@TacticalTuckFard I can pick up used Marlin 336's here in TN for $250, off the record with no paper trail. My 1980-vintage 336 will shoot sub-moa 100yd groups (scoped),with Hornady Leverevolution ammo, that uses a pointed boat-tailed bullet with much better range and energy than the AK. WIth peep-sights the Marlin will group 2" at 100 yds, or 1.5" if I'm having a good day.
You must have a good AK, because the several I've fired can barely stay on a 9" paper plate at 100yds.
63DW89A 5 months ago
@63DW89A that's some pretty good shooting with iron sight and you can't argue with that. i forgot about the hornady polymer tipped rounds. you've made a good point. as for the AK, the sights suck. it takes practice to get good groups with them. all i shoot is the AK so i've gotten decent with it. most AK's in good condition are mechanically capable of 2-3" groups at 100yds. the sight radius is really the limiting factor on those guns.
TacticalTuckFard 5 months ago
@63DW89A But you also have to consider, a well manufactured bolt action or semi automatic rifle in either .223 or 7.62x39 can be ten time more effective then in there battle rifle form. I.E. CZ-USA's 527 carbine in both these calibers
TXKing65 5 months ago
@TXKing65 Yes, no argument there. Well-made bolt rifles are accurate and reliable. Plus you can load a mag full of high-BC pointed boat-tailed bullets. I can use high-BC pointed boat-tailed bullets in my Marlin, BUT I'm limited to one in the chamber and one in the mag for safety. A good Marlin is as accurate as a bolt rifle, and the 30-30 with high BC bullets can accurately shoot about 700 yds. A BIG advantage of the Marlin is it's easy to find them used, inexpensive and off-the-record!
63DW89A 5 months ago
@63DW89A Are you kidding! The Marlin 336 in 30-30 doesn't come close to the 7.62X39 round. Even when you take into consideration the new Hornandy LeveRevolution rounds that pushes it 400 feet faster and can shoot out to maybe 250 yards max, the 30-30 round is pretty much regulated to brush gun status. And the AK-47 and the bullets (7.62X39) are cheaper and ballistically much superior to the 30-30. You obviously don't know guns.
TheBlackhorse1954 4 months ago
@TheBlackhorse1954 You obviously don't know ballistics and do not reload. The Hornady 160gr FTX @ 2400 fps will shoot on a 9-inch trajectory to 300 yds. That's flatter than the 7.62X39 123gr@2400fps, and MUCH flatter than the 7.62X39 150gr @2100 fps. The 160gr FTX 30-30 hits much harder than either, plus a Marlin 336 is much more accurate than an AK. The 30-30 160gr FTX doesn't go transonic until 550yds, while the 123Gr AK round goes transonic at 400yds. The 30-30 leaves the AK in the dust!
63DW89A 4 months ago
CONT: The 30-30 can be reloaded with high BC boat-tailed spitzers like the Speer 150gr BTSP (BC 0.423). While such a bullet must be loaded single-shot in a tubular mag Marlin 336, loaded to 2400fps, the Speer 150 gr BTSP doesn't drop to transonic velocity until 700 yds. Actual ballistics show the 30-30 to be incredibly capable and versatile, much more so than the 7.62X39.
Transonic velocity is very important in longe range accurate shooting.
63DW89A 4 months ago
@63DW89A Obviously I do know ballistics and I no longer reload, but did for years. I also have killed more game than you will ever kill using a Marlin 336 30-30. And you are full of shit trying to convince others out here that you are shooting sub 1" groups anything over 200 yards with a lever action rifle. I don't care who you try to bs, but you should know there are people in the world that can smell a bull shitter and you're one.
TheBlackhorse1954 4 months ago
@TheBlackhorse1954 Funny that a "ballistics expert" such as yourself resorts to foul language and other such verbal smoke the very second your "expert opinion" is revealed to be wrong in public.
If you have access to, and the knowlege to use, a ballistics program, run the Hornady 160gr FTX 30-30 bullet at 2400fps. The FTX BC is 0.330.
I'll speak to you in ballistics and trajectories, not the foul-mouthed smoke you've demonstrated your expertise in.
63DW89A 4 months ago
@TheBlackhorse1954 Also to show up your attempt at distorting my previous statements, I clearly stated in previous comments that my 1981-era Marlin will shoot sub-MOA groups at 100yds, when scoped, and solidly bench-rested, using the 160gr FTX 30-30 Hornady bullet. Using peep sights on the Marlin I can shoot sub-2" groups at 100yds using the same load, often around 1.5" on a good day.
Marlin 336's are extremely accurate rifles, capable of approaching bolt-action accuracy.
63DW89A 4 months ago
@63DW89A just can't leave it alone can you. Ok - if this 30-30 round is so good, name one state, regional or national match that it's won in - oh - lets say the last 100 years. Name me one bolt action rifle in 30-30 that's ever won a marksmanship competition because we know there's never been a lever action that has. Yet I'll be willing to bet there's been local competitions within the last couple weeks where the 5.56 is willing matches. Not to mention national, region and state.
TheBlackhorse1954 4 months ago
@TheBlackhorse1954 Which round has killed the most game, 30-30 or 5.56?
Why do many shooters choose a 5.56 over any 30 cal for target shooting? Same reason CAS shooters choose 38 Special mouse loads over heavy-recoiling 45 Colt black powder loads that duplicate original 1873 ballistics. To win the game. But it's a game. The 45 Colt black powder load dropped grizzly and buffalo on the real frontier; the 38 Special game-winning mouse loads has nowhere near that capability.
63DW89A 4 months ago
CONT: It is easy to drink the Kool-Aid, follow the herd and talk yourself into choosing an overpriced 22 cal varmint rifle as a combat rifle. There are serious calibers that have quietly worked long before the .223/5.56 existed, that still work much better in the real world. A big plus is that many of these weapons exist used, at very good prices and no paperwork.
Sometimes it is best to think outside the box and move away from the herd.
63DW89A 4 months ago
@63DW89A Your question just shows your ignorance. The 30-30 first made it's debut in the late 1800's. And it is designed as a hunting round. The 5.56 is a military round, not designed for hunting and was adopted by the military in the early 1960's. Duh. And it's not widely accepted as a hunting round for big game even today. Many states ban the round for hunting deer. Still waiting for that list of national championships won by 30-30.
TheBlackhorse1954 4 months ago
@TheBlackhorse1954 You just made my point for me.
The 5.56 has light recoil, is easy to shoot and for that reason is a great target round. Most states will not accept the 5.56 as legal for large game as it lacks real world killing power, particularly as range increases. The 30-30 has been a game killer since its 1895 arrival.
Now, which is the most practical "societal collapse" rifle? Marlin 336's can be picked up used for $250. AR15's cost 3-to-4-times more for less capability.
63DW89A 4 months ago
@63DW89A really 3-4 times more???? i have a ar-15 it cost me 650 and thats only because it came with scope front rail hand grip and adjustable stock. now as for your 30-30 round it's designed for hunting animals thats it there is no winners of any regional state national or international that shoots a 30-30 but there is thousands upon thousands that win with the 5.56 all the time
atc51rams 3 months ago
@63DW89A also almost anyone will take an ar-15 over a marlin 336 put the two side by side and you can obviously tell which is the better weapon a stock ar-15 with 5.56 can hit 400-600m accurately a stock marlin 336 with a 30-30 hits 150-300 yards accurately your also extremely limited to any modifications while ar-15 is completely adaptable to any situation
atc51rams 3 months ago
@atc51rams The 30-30 hits much harder than the .223 and is a far better hunting weapon. With proper handloading the 30-30 can reach 700 yards accurately. The Marlin is every bit as accurate as the .223. I can train a non-shooter to handle a Marlin lever action MUCH more quickly than an AR platform. Plus I can buy 4 Marlins for the price of a single AR.
For Emergency Prep in my book, the Marlin lever action totally smokes the overpriced AR's in a real world where families have budgets!
63DW89A 3 months ago
@63DW89A i wasn't talking about a .223 i was talking about the 5.56 which hits harder than the .223 and no way your marlin is hitting 700 yards idc what you say about and if you want to go the route of handloading i can handload a 5.56 and make it hit harder and go farther than any 30-30 can and if your on a budget then get a pistol stop bugging us with your worthless argument
atc51rams 3 months ago
@63DW89A Really ? You can't even field strip a 336 without tools. So no way you could train a non-shoot to handle that weapon for any long period of time. All you have to do is drop the 336 in sand, drit, mud with the action open(and thats when it'll drop in mid cycle) and that 336 will be done. The 336 takes atleast 10 to 15 mins to break down and clean & thats with a very good gunsmith. The 336 is a great hunting rifle but a bad combat rifle. AR's & AK's smoke 336's in real world combat.
mojsmg 2 months ago
@mojsmg there are probably 10000 in the world that can shoot with in the accuracy of any gun its not the gun its the owner/user
tvaughanx 1 month ago
@63DW89A also i just wanted to point out you can learn to use a ar-15 extremely easily thats why the military has been using the m16 for so long
atc51rams 3 months ago
Hey. I think the 39mil won
trinexxxbaker 6 months ago
see wat I dont like about the AK is the round its a sniper round to me and for an AR I dont want the problem of over penetration which the AK has no thats good for spraying threw walls bad for hitting someone with a say VIP behind them.
SgtMustang375 6 months ago
Water will stop a .50 bmg round in it's tracks brah. Gotta use gelatine or hard stuff. Faster rounds stop quicker in water brah brah.
SupremeAmerican 6 months ago
@SupremeAmerican
The body is 95 percent water brah. The body will make a bullet fragment just as quick as water.
drbackjack 6 months ago
supersoaker XLZR1000.3 is far superior to either. so there..
steelfury455 7 months ago
wer these both rounds hollow point full metal jacket ? if they were not the same they will react diffrently thus voiding your results...
dills2403 7 months ago
@dills2403
Neither of the rounds were hollow points.
utubegeneric 7 months ago
This only tells part of the story. Water is not the best medium to test penentration. For instance a 45ACP will penetrate deeper into water than a 50 BMG. It has a lot more to due with velocity, the lower the better into water.
If you compare a 556 against 7.62X39 into a concrete wall, or steel the 556 penetrates way further. They become similar through wood.
In short, 556 is better against hard targets, 762X39 better penetration against more liquid targets due to lower velocity.
AKEVELFAN 7 months ago
@AKEVELFAN Incorrect. 7.62x39mm will penetrate 30cm of concrete at 50yds or more. A 5.56x45 will not. Similar things are true of most any substance. The only thing the 5.56 has over the old 7.62 is that it shoots more flat with most platforms, and sometimes, over penetration can be a bad thing, too.
Wiseman501 7 months ago
@Wiseman501
There are dozens of videos here on youtube I submit as evidence of 556 superiority through steel. A couple come up on the screen at the end of this one. I cannot get a link to post.
I am looking for evidence in concrete, I watched one just the other day showing this. 556 and 7.62x39 are very simlar through wood, and 7.62x39 is superior through more liquid substances liek sand, mud and water.
I will publicly stand corrected if I am mistaken about concrete.
AKEVELFAN 7 months ago
And that is one of many reasons the AK is king.
irishmo87 7 months ago
Awesome video! I love both guns. Always have to flip a coin to choose which one to take out. Most of the time it's the AK. Just funner to shoot!
temolito 8 months ago
6.8 SPC outperforms both rounds but there over $1 per round.
killerex010 9 months ago
love the 7.62, stopping power and weight retention.
gunman848 9 months ago
What brand and type of ammo did you use in both rifles? I'm a big ak fan, just hoping the test was fair. I hope it was:) Cant wait to show this to all my ar-15 friends.
Voldness 9 months ago
I like and own both the AR and AK and don't really get into the "which gun is better" kind of debate. The test was as unbiased as it could be done. No big surprise that 7.62x39 penetrated better than 223.
Though, from my testing in other video's that are on youtube, the 6.8 spc seems to have a flatter trajectory and with less tumbling when going through 5 milk jugs than 7.62x39 too which would indicate the 6.8 would be better in some situations.
No perfect gun or bullet for everything
utubegeneric 9 months ago
@utubegeneric Very true. I agree.
Voldness 9 months ago
@utubegeneric im no expert but the yugoslavian 7.62x39 is supposed to tumble inside the body ;:D
NarowAR07 8 months ago
@utubegeneric I tatally agree, I have both, or had both, and they are diff guns for diff applications. Its kind of funny how diff rounds react in diff situations. Like a 556 disapates its energy quicker in water and doesnt penetrate as far but then in wood the smaller bullet and higher speed allow it to penetrate better than a 762. Also the twist rate effects it. There are so many things that effect bullet performance its kind of fascinating because its not obvious how diff things effect a round
shananagans5 6 months ago
@utubegeneric
Tumbling is better. That's the major design improvement from the original M43 to the M67. End over end leaves a larger permanent wound tract than the original penciling directly through.
Asmo6 6 months ago
@Voldness Dont forget to show them mythbusters showing a 9mm penetrating more in water than a 50 cal bmg while ur at it.
SupremeAmerican 6 months ago
@SupremeAmerican We all know that already :)
Voldness 6 months ago
Great demonstration. That is why I hunt with my custom built 7.62x39 AR15. I rarely would be in a position to take a shot past 250 yards in the part of the country I live.
jwkruser 10 months ago
7.62x39 is the best at what its designed to do. people try to take this round and hit targets at long distances and then they bitch about how unaccurate it is. that is stupid ITS NOT MADE FOR THAT!!!! its made for close to midrange combat witch is were all the action is gonna take place anyway. i can hide behind a tree and ur 223 cant hit me but if u hide behind a tree well u better go ahead and start praying haha. 7.62x39 all day baby whoot whoot!!!!
AK47powpow 11 months ago
@AK47powpow take a shower
curseofa5r5a 11 months ago
@AK47powpow 50% of all engagements are past 500 meters.
MrAppleseed88 10 months ago
@MrAppleseed88 in what world war 2? engagements at that range rarely happend in vietnam. most certainly didnt happen often in iraq, ill give you afghanistan. nothing against .223 I think it is a very versatile round and deadly. but it has nothing on a 7.62x39 inside of 200 yards after that the .223 wins.
TheBigsteve2010 10 months ago
This shows the 7.62 is to much ammo for what is needed which is why I prefer the .223 its more accurate and damages the target not whats behind it.Great job.
gerald380 11 months ago
I dig the camera mount.
GunsKnivesSurvival 11 months ago
@GunsKnivesSurvival
Thank you. It was nothing more than an old scope ring that I drilled and tapped for 1/4-20 threads turned upside down when mounted to the scope. Simple 20 minute project.
utubegeneric 10 months ago
I have always prefered the 7.62 by the way what distance were you shooting from?
6117240 11 months ago
100 Yards
utubegeneric 11 months ago
ill stick by my AR15, but i love the 7.62x39.
TexasDistortion 1 year ago
7.62x39 wins! The .223 is no joke by any means, but i feel more confident behind the good ole 7.62x39 round!!
m1shadow 1 year ago
Great vid
mspell100 1 year ago
i love that cheap russian round!!!!
SpecialEd309 1 year ago