ACLU Okay with Prayer in Public Schools (Muslim prayer that is)

[u1u9]

sure, i can probably explain. this is my understanding:

children in the usa have the right to express their faith in any way that does not disturb the studies of other students. they also have the right of protection from other, competing religions being foist upon them.

so, episcopalians can't be forced to say presbyterian prayers, 7th day adventists can't be forced to attend mormon services, and baptists don't have to take communion from the catholics.

would anyone prefer otherwise?

[StoogeWatcher]

@u1u9 But you seem to forget in some public schools, children are required to say Muslim prayers.

[u1u9]

@StoogeWatcher [citation needed]

and anyway, if they are being coerced to say any prayers, then the staff/faculty/whoever are afoul of the constitution and the aclu would most certainly step in to defend all the students, regardless of their parents' faiths. That's their job.

[StoogeWatcher]

@u1u9 In some California schools, children are required to read the Koran, dress like Muslims, and pray like Muslims. The ACLU does nothing about it, but they'll raise if there is anything to do with Christianity.

[u1u9]

@StoogeWatcher Like i said, Citation Needed. Your say-so doesn't cut it for me. You could be correct, but i'm really curious what's been left out of your story, and what's been changed. bring some names to the table—school names, principal/vp/super names.

wait, are you joking me? Dress like muslims? in a public school, funded by taxpayers? Why do i not believe a word you're saying?

[u1u9]

@StoogeWatcher And anyway, if you do find the name of this likely apocryphal school you describe, and the allegations are true, feel free to give the same info to the aclu. I know it's hard to believe but that really is their job. best I could do is agree with you, which i yet do not.

[u1u9]

@StoogeWatcher hey SW, any luck digging up names or other such facts about these supposed california public schools that make students "dress and pray like muslims"? it's been over a week and i've not heard from you.

I mean, if you're the type that doesn't care if you're spreading and acting on completely fabricated jingoism, then forget i said anything and continue being that kind of a tool.

[StoogeWatcher]

@u1u9 The big controversity was in Byron, California, where an "Islamic immersion" course is required for seventh graders. In that class, students are required to dress and pray like Muslims, act out jihad, and read the Koran. A San Diego school altered its schedule to give Muslim students prayer breaks. Schools in Texas and Florida that wouldn't give the time of day to Christians are rolling out the welcome mat for Muslim guests. In Massachusetts, there are field trips to mosques.

[u1u9]

@StoogeWatcher jesus dude, the byron thing was ten goddamn years ago, if the aclu didn't get involved it's because the school changed their approach pretty quickly. the aclu shouldn't waste funds stopping wrongful activities that have already stopped. Ten years ago.

also, that school sent literature to parents about the particular course, and when asked that their kids be exempted, the school obliged. It doesn't seem very "required", as you put it.

[u1u9]

@StoogeWatcher as for the san diego thing, i told you previously, "i'm really curious what's been left out of your story". in this case, it's the name of the school. and given your antique Byron story, i'm given to wonder more than just "did the school forbid children from praying however they wanted during those breaks?" and "how could you even prevent such a thing?".

[StoogeWatcher]

@u1u9 Carver Elementary.

[u1u9]

@StoogeWatcher i know that different users get different results when they google Carver Elementary San Diego Muslim, but my very first result is a statement FROM aclu-sd executive director kevin keenan.

"…But if the school is actually crossing the line and endorsing or encouraging prayers of any kind, then it should cease."

happy? i'm happy. oh, and i'll pat myself on the back, thanks, that exec.director keenan's third paragraph is nearly identical to my own initial comment on this thread.

[u1u9]

@StoogeWatcher now if you'll excuse me, it's a gorgeous december saturday, and i have a life, and presumably so do you.

from here on out, take nothing at face value, get familiar with google, and refudiate your own bullshittery.

[u1u9]

@StoogeWatcher "Schools in Texas and Florida that wouldn't give the time of day to Christians are rolling out the welcome mat for Muslim guests"

I have no idea how you expect anyone to address this miraculously nebulous-yet-simultaneously-un­believable claim.

[StoogeWatcher]

@u1u9 And then you have the ACLU suing over Christian prayers at football games and graduations. Yet they ignore Fordson High in Dearborn, Michigan, which has Muslim prayers. The same ACLU that sues over privately-funded Nativity scenes and crosses has no problem with taxpayer-funded footbaths in schools.

[u1u9]

@StoogeWatcher "ACLU suing over Christian prayers at football games and graduations. Yet they ignore Fordson High in Dearborn which has Muslim prayers."

what on earth do you mean by "has muslim prayers".

your track record for obscuring information has me suspecting that the dearborn muslims (unlike your christian footballers) know how to encourage prayer in a fashion that is non-interruptive to school activities, and constitutional. You are so not fun to communicate with.

[servant714]

this very hypocrisy is what woke me up from being a right wing political hack. When liberals ran out to defend the ground zero mosque I had to step back and ask 'what is going on here?'

A kingdom divided cannot stand!!!

[StoogeWatcher]

It's true. Liberals cry about "separation of church and state." Yet nothing about integration of mosque and state.

[Serge1965]

@SimplyThinkDreams Finally, if you haven't noticed, there is no mention whatsoever of the Church from chapter 3 until we get to Rev chapter 19, at the wedding supper with the Lamb...food for thought...Jesus bless

[Serge1965]

@SimplyThinkDreams One last thing my friend, you and i know that in Rev chapters 2 and 3, we are in the presence of 7 churches, in chapter 4, the Church is in Heaven as the 7 Spirits of God are before the Throne (Rev 4:5), One has of course to really understand what took place in Rev 1:19-20 and connect the dots with the beginning of chapter 4 but at any rate, if the Spirits of God are all before the Throne, that means that those indwelt by the Spirit will have had no other choice than to follow

[Serge1965]

@SimplyThinkDreams To answer your question about the slain be abhorring to all flesh, here we have to differentiate who is born of the Spirit (Matthew 3:11 and Luke 11:9-13) and who isn't. Those He chose and predestinated are without spot before Him for it is written: According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love(Ephes 1:4 echoing Romans 8:29-31), those who are not sealed by the Spirit will see wrath, not us

[Serge1965]

@SimplyThinkDreams verse 26 says: And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: Now friend, this verse now speaks of Israel, not the gentiles, Israel alone that God will saved them once He has removed the Gentile Bride (The Church) and verse 27 adds to it: For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins...so i would kindly suggest you read more litterally and in context

[Serge1965]

@SimplyThinkDreams For the last passage of Romans 11:25-27, i think you suffer myopia and a lack of Context my friend, verse 25 says: For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. This verse is telling us that Israel is partly blind so that we gentiles can attain a full number in salvation before God returns to open their eyes...

[Serge1965]

@SimplyThinkDreams which refers to a future event and that the rapture must precede the rebuilding of this future 3rd temple to then go to verse 17 which reads: That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things.

This verse talking of course of the multitude that will be saved during the Tribulation according to Rev. 7:9 and thus coherent with Romans 11:25-27

[Serge1965]

@SimplyThinkDreams Actually my friend for Acts 15:14-16, it is the other way around, the Father draws them onto Jesus according to John 6:44, YHWH in verse 14 will TAKE OUT (LAMBANO EK in Greek) ie litterally SNATCH AWAY a people for His Name. What's interesting is that you forgot the two first words of verse 16 and the whole verse: AFTER THIS I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up ...

[Serge1965]

@SimplyThinkDreams You are right about verses 18 and 19 but about verse 20, you are in the left field my friend because in that verse, we are in Heaven with Him where He sends us to OUR CHAMBERS,and to shut OUR DOORS, to hide ourselves for a little moment until His indignation(wrath) be overpast and you completely avoided verse 21 where the Lord leaves HIS PLACE (Heaven) to come down on earth to pour out HIS WRATH on the EARTH DWELLERS that we no longer are (Phil. 3:20) what say ye on v. 20?

[coolvideo28]

ACLU are traitors

[AZstarwatcher]

Starbucks gives lobbying money to ACLU and that's why I've boycotted Starbucks for 4 years now. It's overpriced coffee anyway. Go to Dutch Bros. They give money to the MDA.

[Craigmw45]

After a quick google search, I found not one but 63 court cases in the last 5 years in which the ACLU has went to court to defend the individual rights of Christians.

What kind of totalitarian regime do you want where its OK for the rights of people sharing your own religious beliefs to have freedom to practice.

Yet when an organization defends someones freedoms who does not hold the same religious beliefs you do, you attack.

This video should make you ashamed, yet I fear it won't......

[korzon]

@Craigmw45 And here again we have you putting words in my mouth.I don't care what other people believe.In fact Jews Muslims and Christians have the same GOD,and every one of them have different denominations within themselves.And the reason for that is because they wan't to believe in GOD their own way and not the way GOD requires.I just do what GOD says I do not belong to a denomination or a sect.I am a Son of GOD that is all,And I follow what His very own Son said to do not men.

[Craigmw45]

I hate to resort to insults, but you seriously can't be stupid enough to believe this is a fair representation of the facts.

The ACLU also fights for Christians right to pray in public, and public schools, it always has. It doesn't fight for the government support of any religion, however.

[1954phyllis]

It is obvious that the ACLU is the worst enemy of God and every thing that is good and holy. They should all be shipped out to a communist country. So it is okay that a false god is worshipped in the schools of the USA but God best be not mentinoned in them. How absolutely horrible.

[liberator777ACTS]

Just another manifestation of revelation.GOD is great

[korzon]

Well I hope the atheists enjoy their new god of islam,I don't see one of them here complaining about that.Proving they are cowards and hypocrites.Pick on Christians because we are peacfull but accept the muslims in fear they might be killed.Hope they enjoy england that is full of them,and the shyria law they soon will be under,They will wish they never drove out Christianity.This is what they deserve,part of GOD's plan to show how his people's fruit is good and the islam bad,learn the hard way.

[UtubeLeeOh]

@Lawilson200

I am very aware of Islam not having a gospel. That was a reference to the government and media (both of which I believe are fascists at times) propagandizing Islam to be promoted in the public forum without verbalizing it. Christians arent ignorant of the facts of being marginalized in a society that is becoming more hostile to the message of salvation in Christ Jesus. The fact that you call my claim absurd makes it no less true. Regardless, your mind is made up as is mine. Goodbye

[lawilson200]

@UtubeLeeOh - While I prefer to respond directly to comments, I can play this game too.

"Both of which I believe are fascists at times." Do you even understand the meaning of the word fascism? Fascism is private industry in control of the means of government. I am not sure how Islam in the news even applies ro your views on fascism. Your claims are absurd because you have been blinded by a polticialization of religion by those who are truly facists.  You need to learn history!

[VeryImagesozo]

Well...it looks like the ACLU is setting itself up to not be able to legitimately oppose Christians praying in school...they have open pandora's box. If a Christian in that school is disciplined for praying, they now have legal grounds on the basis of this decision to file discremination charges against the school.

[Zalahblue]

American Tax Leeches need to go!

[BT3701]

Oh yea, the ACLU will support any religion, just so long as it's not the Christian religion. The cross of Christ is an offense to the ACLU.

[ChristiansofAsia]

@BT3701 True!

[UtubeLeeOh]

@Lawilson200

For Christians we dont want government endorsement. To say we do is hypocritical because we are being excluded so Islam's gospel can be spread. We christians want freedom of expression like these muslims now have in the public forum. We have always had it but now we are being forced to forsake it for the sake of being tolerant. How much will American disciples of Jesus Christ take by continuing to be silent before we lose all 1st amendment rights?

[lawilson200]

@UtubeLeeOh There is a simple step to follow, if you want me to actually read your comment. Your first claim, that you are somehow are being excluded so Islam can spread is frankly absurd (please note, the Quran does not contain a Gospel) and based on paranoia drummed up by the more facist element of our political spectrum. And your last is really based on a lack of understanding of the First Amendment. As the old saying goes, as long as their are math exams, there will be prayer in schools!

[UtubeLeeOh]

@Lawilson

For Christians we dont want government endorsement. To say we do is hypocritical because we are being excluded so Islam's gospel can be spread. We christians want freedom of expression like these muslims now have in the public forum. We have always had it but now we are being forced to forsake it for the sake of being tolerant. How much will American disciples of Jesus Christ take by continuing to be silent before we lose all 1st amendment rights?

[lawilson200]

@UtubeLeeOh - There is nothing to prevent you from worshipping God or even engaging in prayer now. The true issue is a public endorsement of religion.

[fellowservant34]

ACLU= Anti-Christian-Lawyers-Union.

[UtubeLeeOh]

@Serge1965

AMEN DUDE!

[Serge1965]

Believe me bro, when the atheists start seeing heads roll, beheadings, they will miss the days where the Christians prayed to Jesus Christ, the God of the Christians, the Only True God there is...but we will be gone in the rapture

Jesus bless you

[ChristiansofAsia]

@Serge1965  Amen!

[korzon]

@Serge1965 They pick on us because we are peacfull and turn the other cheek,and yes wait till their heads start to roll.They will be praying then but it will be too late.They hate GOD but wait till they get to meet their real boss the antichrist,find out what a miniacle genocidal maniac realy is.When you kick out the christians islam rolls in.Haven't they learned a thing from history yet,guess they been too busy digging up dead bones.

[Serge1965]

@korzon So true

[SimplyThinkDreams]

@Serge1965 Sorry to say but a pre-tribulation rapture is not a scriptural teaching. In fact, the righteous will watch the wicked be destroyed. Psalm 91, Isaiah 66, Matthew 24. Read also the parable of the tares and the wheat. The wicked (tares) are gathered first and burned and the righteous shall remain. Yeshua said that as it was in the days of Noah so shall the coming of the Son of Man be. The wicked were taken and the righteous left. Christians will be living through the tribulation.

[Serge1965]

@SimplyThinkDreams So i suppose that you do not believe Jesus Christ at His Word in Matthew 16:18 when He says that the gates of hell shall not prevail against His Church? Do you even believe Scripture in 1 Thess 1:10, 1 Thess 5:9 and Rev 3:10 which all say that we who are indwelt by the Spirit are not appointed to wrath? How would you explain to me Acts 15:14-16 and then explain to me Isaiah 26:18-21??? Noah was spared from the wrath and was taken above the waters, found just by faith..

[SimplyThinkDreams]

@Serge1965 I believe every word of Yeshua. The fact is, just because the gates of hell (eternal death of body and soul) will not prevail against believers, does not mean that those believers will not be around during the tribulation. Psalm 91 teaches that "a thousand shall fall at thy side, and ten thousand at thy right hand; but it shall not come nigh thee. Only with thine eyes shalt thou behold and see the reward of the wicked. Please read the whole Psalm. It is extremely beautiful.

[SimplyThinkDreams]

@Serge1965 "Immediately AFTER the TRIBULATION of those days shall the sun be darkened... And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven, and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other." Put together with 2 Thes. 4:15-18

[Serge1965]

@SimplyThinkDreams You did not answqer my questions, what part of we are not appointed to God's wrath did you not understand? And second, explain to me Acts 15:14-16 and Isaiah 26:18-21 please and while you're at it, how about adding Romans 11:25-27, try explaining these 3 verses please, i am very curious as to how you understand them, thanks

[SimplyThinkDreams]

@Serge1965 Well we must ask, what is God's wrath. God's wrath is the destruction of both body and soul in hell. What is God's grace? It is the gift of eternal life to those who believe in Yeshua and walk in his path. If those who have faith in Yeshua are granted the gift of eternal life, then they are certainly not appointed for God's wrath. I wrote you a whole email and lost it and then wrote a shorter one but you have friend block on. Its difficult to respond properly with limited space.

[Serge1965]

@SimplyThinkDreams Okay friend, have you read about the Day of the Lord throughout the OT prophecies? I'm asking 'cause the OT prophets speak about this and it has to do with the 7 year Trib that's coming upon the earth and i mean, you and i know that since God's Spirit comes and lives in us, it is the seal of God unto redemtion and thus are no longer earth dwellers since our citizenship is in Heaven (Phil 3:20) now read Isaiah 26:21and Rev 13:3-8 and understand about the earth dwellers...

[Serge1965]

@SimplyThinkDreams In Isaiah 26:18-21, we are reading about a resurrection in verse 19,we are with God in Heaven in verse 20 where God sends us to our rooms to avoid seeing the wrath to come,in verse 21, God comes out of His place to deliver His wrath on the earth dwellers that we no longer are, now read Acts 15:14-16 the same way and see that God takes out of the earth a people before coming back to rebuild Davis's tabernacle which is the future 3rd temple talked about in Ezekiel chpters 40-46

[SimplyThinkDreams]

@Serge1965 You are totally ignoring all of Matthew 24 where Yeshua tells us the signs to look for regarding his return. He teaches us that the abomination of desolation must be set up in the Temple. This requires that the third temple be built. 2 Thessalonians 2:1-4 is in agreement. It teaches us that the son of perdition will rule from the Temple as if he were God. Yeshua also teaches us that tribulation must take place before he returns and gathers his elect. See Matthew 24:29-31

[Serge1965]

@SimplyThinkDreams One can't build an eschatology doctrine only on a chapter or verse but rather on the whole counsel of God's Word and by the Spirit, if you look at Dan 9:24-27, you'll understand that in light of what's written in Isaiah 26:18-21; Acts 15:14-16; 2 Thess 2:1-8; and Matthew 24:15, you'll decipher that we need to be gone before a 7 year peace treaty can be done between the antichrist and Israel and the rest of the world and that the One who restrains him is the Holy Spirit in us

[SimplyThinkDreams]

@Serge1965 I agree with your first sentence. I have yet to hear how the scriptures I have mentioned fit into your eschatology, especially Matthew 24, 2 Thess. 2:1-8, Rev. 13:8-15, and Psalm 91, and Isaiah 66. In Isaiah 66:16 "For by fire and by his sword will YHWH plead with ALL flesh, and the slain of YHWH will be many." Later in verse 24 YHWH says, "...and they shall be abhorring unto all flesh." How can the slain be abhorring to all flesh if we are translated and taken up?

[Serge1965]

@SimplyThinkDreams And you still avoided to explain how you understand the passages i have given you in Isaiah 26:18-21 and in Acts 15:14-16 and in Romans 11:25-27, could you answer this please...?

[SimplyThinkDreams]

@Serge1965 Isaiah 26:18 is talking about the pains of Israel in this world and the fact that the worldly ways have not been done away with yet. 29 is obviously about the resurrection of the dead.  20 is talking about people entering into YHWH's protection. This protection is the same type of protection given to Noah in Genesis 7:1. It is also the same as mentioned in Psalm 91:4, 9-10. 21 is about YHWH punishing the wicked for their sin.

[SimplyThinkDreams]

@Serge1965 Acts 15:14-16 is talking about how Yeshua brought people to believe on YHWH. The Gentiles were idolaters and when they believed in the Gospel they were taken out from the rest of the Gentiles and turned to God (see verse 19). 15 leads us into 16, which is a paraphrase from Amos 9:11 which prophesied of the Gentile believers who would come out of their idolatry. Other prophecy references are Isaiah 54:1-5, Hosea 3:5, Michah 5:2.

[SimplyThinkDreams]

@Serge1965 Romans 11:25-27 is talking about who how it was prophesied of the Deliverer who will take away the sins of those who believe on Yeshua. 27 summarizes the previous verses by saying "this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins. I see these verses merely talking about Yeshua delivering us from our sins through his sacrifice and teaching us the righteous path, turning us away from sin and consequently its penalties which are death.

[lawilson200]

Yes, you are being intolerant. The key issue here (as wirh the school prayer issue generally), is it government sponsred, mandaterd attendence, and/or being lead by a government official. There is no constitutional problems with individual private prayer. What your side seem to want is government endorsement at the exclusion of all other beliefs. That is where the 1st Amendment is violated.

[korzon]

@lawilson200 Government endorsement?If that is true give us a source please do not just state something like that when all we ask for is to have a class maybe for I.D as even churches and other organizations have even said they would foot the bill without even tax payers having to pay for it..They even wanted to put a cross at the 911 site funded by Christians and atheists refused that to be there,But it's ok to put a mosque such hypocrites.We ask for no funding from the Government in any area.

[Craigmw45]

@korzon "it's ok to put a mosque such hypocrites"

I can tell you have never been to New York, or have ever bothered to look at a map.

The mosque, isn't on ground zero, its about 5 blocks away, and was there on 9-11-01. The rest of the building that has always contained the mosque, is being constructed into a community center.

Like science you seem to be comfortable arguing about something you haven't the slightest clue about.

[korzon]

@Craigmw45 I just think it'd inapropriate to put a Mosque anywhere near where Islamic terrorists bombed a building.Me myself I don't care I don't even live there,But if Newyorkers have a problem with it so be it .It is their state not mine.And when they wanted to put a cross there for a memorial you atheists wined like babies about it.Now that I have a big problem with personaly,The families of the Christians who died wanted to put it there.

[korzon]

@Craigmw45 And if you atheists wan't to put a memorial for you're fellow atheists there go ahead we won't cry about it like you did.Or do you people just not care about you're fellow atheists?At least us Christians and the christian families who's who lost love ones cared to do so.And they are building a community center there now because Newyorkers don't want there to be a mosque so they simply added it to make it look better for them.They couldn't even raise the funds anyways won't be built.

[Craigmw45]

@korzon "wan't to put a memorial for you're fellow atheists there go ahead we won't cry about it like you did."

Your saying this in a video which is nothing more then Christians complaining about people of a different religion defending their right to practice their faith.

And this comment follows your own complaining about a mosque, which you just said should not be near ground zero, though it was there on Sept 11.

Did you think I would miss these wonderfully ironic facts?

[korzon]

@Craigmw45 No I am saying I realy don't care what they do.If they wan't to pray in the streets like they do in France go ahead.I worry about my accountability and what I do,as I do it in the privacy of my own home so not to bother you people.You are the ones who complain about prayer and religion not me.Be whatever you wan't to be you won't see me picket anything.It is you people who cry about everything,Have fun when you need to deal with muslims you will find them less compassionate to you.

[Craigmw45]

@korzon Well first, where in the world did you get the idea that I'm an atheist? I argue about science here and nothing more. The fact that I recognize the ridiculous claims made by ICR for what they are, has no bearing on a belief or non belief in a god.

I don't care about the cross at ground zero TBH. But its defiantly a religious symbol on government property, they have point in their argument.

Yet you just complained about an existing religious center on private property 5 blocks away

[korzon]

@Craigmw45 How many times do I have to say it I don't care what anybody does it is not my concern.I only worry about my accountability and my own life not yours.You can be buddist muslim whatever you wan't I am not going to bother you about it.Do what you wan't.But the property was not government property it was private property to begin with,As the owner 2 weeks before they got hit took out a new insurance polocy,wich to me is a bit suspicious.If I did that they hit me up for insurance fraud.

[korzon]

@Craigmw45 I said you people are crying about it,Um where was the word atheist.I am tired all people wan't to do is argue,On one hand I have TSF telling me the Gospel is full of hate yet he failed to find one verse that says anything of the nature,and here I told you I don't know how many times I don't care what other religions do,or non believers.I can't make people do anything other than what they wan't.But I WILL defend my own Faith and I have that right,as well as my opinion.

[korzon]

@Craigmw45 And have you not noticed but I no longer comment on you or TSF's comments anymore?I talk with other people and have stopped conversing with you people because all you guys do is argue an opinion.But yet you persist even when I leave you alone and let you have you're own belief.Go ahead and comment on the video don't worry what I believe.And you said I believe in fairy tales before so I would naturaly assume you are an atheist.Maybe it is because you said Christianity is a fairy tale.

[Craigmw45]

@korzon "Maybe it is because you said Christianity is a fairy tale."

No i didn't

"And here again we have you putting words in my mouth"

No I didn't. Anyone who wishes to check can read the comments for them selves assuming you won't delete them to save face.

"all you guys do is argue an opinion"

No I don't. I have well establish facts to back up my "opinions" and creationist have ignorance, quote mines, and out right lies.

Did you ever figure out if the sun is shrinking or expanding.

[lawilson200]

@korzon The issue presented in this video is making time available for Islamic students for worship. This have nothing to do with the issue of a cross at ground zero (The last time I looked, this is currently being litigated). It certainly have nothing to do with the controversy for building an Islamic Cultural center, TWO blocks away from ground zero. People have a tendency to forget, one of the buildings damaged during 9/11 was an Epicopal Church. Please stick to the subject.

[korzon]

@lawilson200 Pat Condell complain about muslims taking over the U.k when it was you're guys fault.When you kick out the Christians the muslims moved right on in.It happened in Africa the U.k France Sweden Austria,The list goes on and is increasing rapidly.Islam is not just a religion it is a Jihad against all that do not conform to it.We go to our own Funded Churches away from the public while Islam goes right out in the middle of the streets in the U.K and France IN PUBLIC to have their prayer

[lawilson200]

@korzon One of my favorite movies is called the American President and one of my favorite scenes is a press conference issued by Mike Douglas, who was playing the role of the president. "Bob Rumsfield is interested in two things and two things only. Telling people who is blame for it and telling people to be afraid of it." This quoteis quite appropriate here. The far right in this country has no interest in solving actual problems. All they want is for you to be afraid and paranoid.