Dolce If someone is an unbeliever anything is possible with them. But Jesus said if your a Child and you ask Him for the Holy Spirit then that's what you will get. Luk 11:13 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?
God doesn't give demons to His children Dolce. Notice the gift is given to believers. Meaning it is a separate experience to the rebirth.
Mar 3:22 And the scribes which came down from Jerusalem said, He hath Beelzebub, and by the prince of the devils casteth he out devils.
Mar 3:23 And he called them unto him, and said unto them in parables, How can Satan cast out Satan? Mar 3:29 But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation:
Mar 3:30 Because they said, He hath an unclean spirit.
How obvious to the enlightened, but how blind are the willfully ignorant!
Mat_15:14 Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch.The doctrine of Calvinism concludes that the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is not believing in Christ. They add this to the foolishness of the doctrine eternal security.If their false assumption were true they can then believe it is impossible to blaspheme the Holy Spirit.A false notion again. Jesus clarified what it was in Mark's Gospel.
That friend is the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit.You have called them idiots but if you accuse the inspiration of the Holy Spirit of being a demon, that is the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit.I warn all who presume to accuse this gift being the Inspiration of the devil I shudder at the final outcome.The Pharisee spirit is alive and well with the duplicate accusations against the body of Christ.
2Pe_3:16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. It's not strange however that your ignorance of truth fit's the same category as spoken of by the Lord Jesus Himself!When the Holy Spirit's power is operating They accused Jesus of having a devil. They knew it was the Holy Spirit but they said its a devil.
Tongues...To sing with the understanding and sing in tongues. Common spiritual sense makes it very clear. But of course it does not fit your doctrine and you go on to make up a doctrine that can be shredded from the scriptures.So again you tell us that this is pagan Gibberish but as usual no valid doctrinal proof. You forced that into the text. You are following the ones that Peter spoke of
Won't you see it.Who are you trying to fool?Paul makes it so clear but it is not in your doctrine so you try to invent a meaning.Your premise is"It can't mean that so we will make it mean something Else.So now you think it can't mean God so you do what the JWs did to John 1.You are supposing it is not a prayer to God so you do the JW cop out. Then you would have to say that this builds up the spiritual life of the individual. How absurd. So Paul teaches us to pray in the understanding and in_
By the Holy Spirit. 1Co 14:15 What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also. Here Paul again refers to himself praying and singing in tongues he did not understand. Praying in the spirit is clearly explained as praying in tongues. And praying in the understanding is obvious.Can't you see the distinction between a language of the understanding and tongues.Or is it you won't...
He says he did. Talking in the Church he would rather use his understanding rather than a tongue. Pleas tell me oh scholar what else could he mean. Where would he be speaking the tongues if not in the Church? Why would he not speak the tongues if they were understood languages? What do you think praying in Tongues means?Well here is the meaning, 1Co 14:14 For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful. The spirit of the person prays empowered...
How interesting that you assume that Paul never spoke in an unknown tongue. Strange but not in the Bible. Agin it is bypassing 1Cor.14:18-19, where Paul clearly distinguishes between a languge of understanding spoken in the Church and a language not understood by him referring to speaking in tongues more than them all. But again your trying to put a square peg in a round hole to force the error. What do you think he meant in those verses that you are misinterpreting. You said he didn't ....
1Cor.14:2 can also be translated "a god"(see1cor.12:1,2). Paul never spoke in an unknown tongue-although the Corinthians would assume that he did. Sometimes the only way to truly effect or deliver those who are deceived is through deseption.
that tongue is interpreted then the person will come under conviction by the Spirit and will fall on their face and worship God and exclaim, "God is in you" So the operations have differing targets. One the person worships and praises God the other God speaks to man.
@Gate2enter4life47 TONGUES CAN BE DEMONIC ALSO. THE DEVIL HAS COUNTERFEITED THE HOLY SPIRIT. MAINLY IN THE PENTECOSTAL UNITED CHURCHES(JESUS ONLY). THATS WHY WE NEED TO TEST THE SPIRITS AS THE BIBLE TEACHES. SO IF YOU SPEAK IN TONGUES,BE AWARE.
A GOOD BOOK WHICH EXPLAINS MORE ON THIS SUBJECT IS FREE TO READ ON THE INTERNET IS "MIRACLES STILL HAPPENS BY MARLIES ZECHNER".
That verse is for worship and praise to God only unless interpreted. But this one ,1Co 14:21 In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord.
Is the Sign whereby God speaks to men. How does He speak to men. Pentecost that's how! The sign was seeing and hearing and understanding what they were saying to God. Or if a tongue calls the attention of somebody in a Church meeting and
1Co 14:2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries. What in Heaven's Name is the problem with a person speaking unto God knowing that though no man understands him. God understands him. The Church is urged by Paul both to pray in tongues and sing in tongues and also sing and pray in understanding. But if people are unlearned Christians or unbelievers there to refrain.
Another place where your missing the point is the fact that there are two beneficial tongues. The first is for personal edification of the Christian and the second is God speaking to people. The Gift of tongues in ch 12 is in context of individual ministry. The gift that he first sets in order in ch 14 is the prayer language that people can sing in and pray in but not understand it. It is for private edification and worship. This is the same gift Paul boasts about in 14:18,19.
@Gate2enter4life47 1cor14:2 is about pagan gibberish-it was being used by the gnostic "christians" at Corinth. It has nothing to do with the real miraculous gift given at Pentecost which was actual languages not learned by the speakers but understood by the hearers. This unknown tongue can be done by any idiot saved or lost. It is taught by Pentecostals today.
I am not sure how the mechanics work but let me tell you God used the great teacher the apostle Paul to tell the Church not to forbid speaking in tongues. But I have another question for you the boasting that the apostle Paul made showed he didn't wish to speak those tongues in the Church. Why? If he had of spoken about common languages he would have made the point that he would only speak those tongues if they were understood by the hearers. He said the Church.
He is clearly distinguishing the language he understands against tongues he doesn't understand. Why would he boast about it? What you are doing is failing to see the benefits of praying in a language that the speaker does not himself understand. If this was a language the speaker understood why would he be urged to pray he might interpret what he is saying. If you understand what you pray about your mind will benefit on the other hand if you pray in a tongue how can you benefit?
Hi Jay and I appreciate all your comments but I disagree about you conclusion that It was human understood languages. You did not explain why Paul boasted that he spoke in tongues more than all of the Corinthian Church and that he distinguished it as a language not understood by himself. 1Co 14:18 I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all:
1Co 14:19 Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also,
anyway, love ya man. Since you sent me a head's up in my mailbox I thought I would be polite and respond. God bless you my fellow brother in Christ. No matter what you conclude, I pray that God would help us grow more into the image of our Lord. Peace. Jay
Does God want our minds to be unfruitful? No, He says we have the mind of Christ and to be transformed by the renewing of your mind, not the bypassing of it. So, I believe that this "language" in 14:4 is not some private language spoken only to God, but a human language that only God understands because 1.) the speaker doesn't know the language, 2.) there is no one there to interpret it. Where else in the whole bible does God or angels communicate in anything other than human language?
Sorry to blow up your page, but it must be stressed that 1.) Edifing "self" in not necessarily a "good" thing, as I showed in chapter 8, wheter my "self/flesh" or someone else's self/flesh. Gifts are for building up the body in LOVE, not for self, ever! That's why chapter 13 is sandwich there. Plus, you (and others) still have to show that this language is not a human language. If I speak in another language and no one is ther who speaks it, it remains a mystery that only God knows.
14:27, 28...If any speak in a tongue...let someone interpret. But if there is no one to interpret, let each of them KEEP SILENT in church and speak to himself..and to God, not utter mysteries.
The same greek work from 1 14:4 is used in 8:10 (For if anyone sees you who haev knowledge eating in an idol's temple, will he not be encouraged (EDIFIED), if his conscience is weak, to eat food offered to idols? Here's someone is edified to their HARM, brother. 12:7 - To each is given the manifestation of the Spirit for THE COMMON GOOD. Look at verse 9...if you are speaking in tongues and no one interprets, youare speaking into the AIR...it's not intelligible.
You make some great points, but you have to see what MacArthur says about the WHOLE issue..you keep saying "obviously" he overlooked....overlooked...he has TONS of commentary on Acts 2...brother You have to get ALL the information, and from more than just a video! This language that was only understood by "GOD" was still a human language!!, but there was no one there to interpret it, so it remained a "mystery"! Only GOd could know it.
And, I dont know for sure that "tongues" today are necessarily denomic. It could be that the carnal, selfish Christans of Corinth were speaking in another language; however, because no one was there to interpret it was useless, fleshly, and speaking only in a way that GOD could understand...like if I spoke Russian without knowing "Russian" and there was no interpreter...my mind would be unfruitful, only God would understand, and I be puffed up with pride over my gift, thus edifying "self"
@SolusChristus924 You must remember that MacArthur cannot possibly point out everything in Corinthians in one video...as a matter of fact he DOES comment on it in his Bible Commentary...and the people speaking in tongues were speaking HUMAN LANGUAGES that other people could understand...not some strange babble. It is ALWAYS a language...in Corinthians, NO gift is for SELF, but for the building up of believers; 2.) the gift of tongues was NOT for the believer...but for the unbeliever.
Nice video, friend, however, we cannot take our experiences and tell the bible what it says...it must be the other way around. Why does anyone need a private prayer language that bypasses the mind when you have the Holy Spirit interceding for you and the Son of God interceding for you? (Romans 8/Hebrews 7:25) In 1 Cor. 14:4, the word "edify" is taken by many as something that's good! Why would edifying "self" be good when "selfishness" was the problem with the entire church?
Dolce If someone is an unbeliever anything is possible with them. But Jesus said if your a Child and you ask Him for the Holy Spirit then that's what you will get. Luk 11:13 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?
God doesn't give demons to His children Dolce. Notice the gift is given to believers. Meaning it is a separate experience to the rebirth.
Gate2enter4life47 9 months ago
Mar 3:22 And the scribes which came down from Jerusalem said, He hath Beelzebub, and by the prince of the devils casteth he out devils.
Mar 3:23 And he called them unto him, and said unto them in parables, How can Satan cast out Satan? Mar 3:29 But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation:
Mar 3:30 Because they said, He hath an unclean spirit.
How obvious to the enlightened, but how blind are the willfully ignorant!
Gate2enter4life47 9 months ago
Mat_15:14 Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch.The doctrine of Calvinism concludes that the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is not believing in Christ. They add this to the foolishness of the doctrine eternal security.If their false assumption were true they can then believe it is impossible to blaspheme the Holy Spirit.A false notion again. Jesus clarified what it was in Mark's Gospel.
Gate2enter4life47 9 months ago
That friend is the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit.You have called them idiots but if you accuse the inspiration of the Holy Spirit of being a demon, that is the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit.I warn all who presume to accuse this gift being the Inspiration of the devil I shudder at the final outcome.The Pharisee spirit is alive and well with the duplicate accusations against the body of Christ.
Gate2enter4life47 9 months ago
2Pe_3:16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. It's not strange however that your ignorance of truth fit's the same category as spoken of by the Lord Jesus Himself!When the Holy Spirit's power is operating They accused Jesus of having a devil. They knew it was the Holy Spirit but they said its a devil.
Gate2enter4life47 9 months ago
Tongues...To sing with the understanding and sing in tongues. Common spiritual sense makes it very clear. But of course it does not fit your doctrine and you go on to make up a doctrine that can be shredded from the scriptures.So again you tell us that this is pagan Gibberish but as usual no valid doctrinal proof. You forced that into the text. You are following the ones that Peter spoke of
Gate2enter4life47 9 months ago
Won't you see it.Who are you trying to fool?Paul makes it so clear but it is not in your doctrine so you try to invent a meaning.Your premise is"It can't mean that so we will make it mean something Else.So now you think it can't mean God so you do what the JWs did to John 1.You are supposing it is not a prayer to God so you do the JW cop out. Then you would have to say that this builds up the spiritual life of the individual. How absurd. So Paul teaches us to pray in the understanding and in_
Gate2enter4life47 9 months ago
By the Holy Spirit. 1Co 14:15 What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also. Here Paul again refers to himself praying and singing in tongues he did not understand. Praying in the spirit is clearly explained as praying in tongues. And praying in the understanding is obvious.Can't you see the distinction between a language of the understanding and tongues.Or is it you won't...
Gate2enter4life47 9 months ago
He says he did. Talking in the Church he would rather use his understanding rather than a tongue. Pleas tell me oh scholar what else could he mean. Where would he be speaking the tongues if not in the Church? Why would he not speak the tongues if they were understood languages? What do you think praying in Tongues means?Well here is the meaning, 1Co 14:14 For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful. The spirit of the person prays empowered...
Gate2enter4life47 9 months ago
How interesting that you assume that Paul never spoke in an unknown tongue. Strange but not in the Bible. Agin it is bypassing 1Cor.14:18-19, where Paul clearly distinguishes between a languge of understanding spoken in the Church and a language not understood by him referring to speaking in tongues more than them all. But again your trying to put a square peg in a round hole to force the error. What do you think he meant in those verses that you are misinterpreting. You said he didn't ....
Gate2enter4life47 9 months ago
1Cor.14:2 can also be translated "a god"(see1cor.12:1,2). Paul never spoke in an unknown tongue-although the Corinthians would assume that he did. Sometimes the only way to truly effect or deliver those who are deceived is through deseption.
1cor14 9 months ago
that tongue is interpreted then the person will come under conviction by the Spirit and will fall on their face and worship God and exclaim, "God is in you" So the operations have differing targets. One the person worships and praises God the other God speaks to man.
Gate2enter4life47 9 months ago
@Gate2enter4life47 TONGUES CAN BE DEMONIC ALSO. THE DEVIL HAS COUNTERFEITED THE HOLY SPIRIT. MAINLY IN THE PENTECOSTAL UNITED CHURCHES(JESUS ONLY). THATS WHY WE NEED TO TEST THE SPIRITS AS THE BIBLE TEACHES. SO IF YOU SPEAK IN TONGUES,BE AWARE.
A GOOD BOOK WHICH EXPLAINS MORE ON THIS SUBJECT IS FREE TO READ ON THE INTERNET IS "MIRACLES STILL HAPPENS BY MARLIES ZECHNER".
dolcevita4me 9 months ago
That verse is for worship and praise to God only unless interpreted. But this one ,1Co 14:21 In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord.
Is the Sign whereby God speaks to men. How does He speak to men. Pentecost that's how! The sign was seeing and hearing and understanding what they were saying to God. Or if a tongue calls the attention of somebody in a Church meeting and
Gate2enter4life47 9 months ago
1Co 14:2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries. What in Heaven's Name is the problem with a person speaking unto God knowing that though no man understands him. God understands him. The Church is urged by Paul both to pray in tongues and sing in tongues and also sing and pray in understanding. But if people are unlearned Christians or unbelievers there to refrain.
Gate2enter4life47 9 months ago
Another place where your missing the point is the fact that there are two beneficial tongues. The first is for personal edification of the Christian and the second is God speaking to people. The Gift of tongues in ch 12 is in context of individual ministry. The gift that he first sets in order in ch 14 is the prayer language that people can sing in and pray in but not understand it. It is for private edification and worship. This is the same gift Paul boasts about in 14:18,19.
Gate2enter4life47 9 months ago
@Gate2enter4life47 1cor14:2 is about pagan gibberish-it was being used by the gnostic "christians" at Corinth. It has nothing to do with the real miraculous gift given at Pentecost which was actual languages not learned by the speakers but understood by the hearers. This unknown tongue can be done by any idiot saved or lost. It is taught by Pentecostals today.
1cor14 9 months ago
I am not sure how the mechanics work but let me tell you God used the great teacher the apostle Paul to tell the Church not to forbid speaking in tongues. But I have another question for you the boasting that the apostle Paul made showed he didn't wish to speak those tongues in the Church. Why? If he had of spoken about common languages he would have made the point that he would only speak those tongues if they were understood by the hearers. He said the Church.
Gate2enter4life47 9 months ago
He is clearly distinguishing the language he understands against tongues he doesn't understand. Why would he boast about it? What you are doing is failing to see the benefits of praying in a language that the speaker does not himself understand. If this was a language the speaker understood why would he be urged to pray he might interpret what he is saying. If you understand what you pray about your mind will benefit on the other hand if you pray in a tongue how can you benefit?
Gate2enter4life47 9 months ago
Hi Jay and I appreciate all your comments but I disagree about you conclusion that It was human understood languages. You did not explain why Paul boasted that he spoke in tongues more than all of the Corinthian Church and that he distinguished it as a language not understood by himself. 1Co 14:18 I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all:
1Co 14:19 Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also,
Gate2enter4life47 9 months ago
anyway, love ya man. Since you sent me a head's up in my mailbox I thought I would be polite and respond. God bless you my fellow brother in Christ. No matter what you conclude, I pray that God would help us grow more into the image of our Lord. Peace. Jay
SolusChristus924 9 months ago
Does God want our minds to be unfruitful? No, He says we have the mind of Christ and to be transformed by the renewing of your mind, not the bypassing of it. So, I believe that this "language" in 14:4 is not some private language spoken only to God, but a human language that only God understands because 1.) the speaker doesn't know the language, 2.) there is no one there to interpret it. Where else in the whole bible does God or angels communicate in anything other than human language?
SolusChristus924 9 months ago
Sorry to blow up your page, but it must be stressed that 1.) Edifing "self" in not necessarily a "good" thing, as I showed in chapter 8, wheter my "self/flesh" or someone else's self/flesh. Gifts are for building up the body in LOVE, not for self, ever! That's why chapter 13 is sandwich there. Plus, you (and others) still have to show that this language is not a human language. If I speak in another language and no one is ther who speaks it, it remains a mystery that only God knows.
SolusChristus924 9 months ago
14:27, 28...If any speak in a tongue...let someone interpret. But if there is no one to interpret, let each of them KEEP SILENT in church and speak to himself..and to God, not utter mysteries.
SolusChristus924 9 months ago
The same greek work from 1 14:4 is used in 8:10 (For if anyone sees you who haev knowledge eating in an idol's temple, will he not be encouraged (EDIFIED), if his conscience is weak, to eat food offered to idols? Here's someone is edified to their HARM, brother. 12:7 - To each is given the manifestation of the Spirit for THE COMMON GOOD. Look at verse 9...if you are speaking in tongues and no one interprets, youare speaking into the AIR...it's not intelligible.
SolusChristus924 9 months ago
You make some great points, but you have to see what MacArthur says about the WHOLE issue..you keep saying "obviously" he overlooked....overlooked...he has TONS of commentary on Acts 2...brother You have to get ALL the information, and from more than just a video! This language that was only understood by "GOD" was still a human language!!, but there was no one there to interpret it, so it remained a "mystery"! Only GOd could know it.
SolusChristus924 9 months ago
Comment removed
SolusChristus924 9 months ago
And, I dont know for sure that "tongues" today are necessarily denomic. It could be that the carnal, selfish Christans of Corinth were speaking in another language; however, because no one was there to interpret it was useless, fleshly, and speaking only in a way that GOD could understand...like if I spoke Russian without knowing "Russian" and there was no interpreter...my mind would be unfruitful, only God would understand, and I be puffed up with pride over my gift, thus edifying "self"
SolusChristus924 9 months ago
@SolusChristus924 You must remember that MacArthur cannot possibly point out everything in Corinthians in one video...as a matter of fact he DOES comment on it in his Bible Commentary...and the people speaking in tongues were speaking HUMAN LANGUAGES that other people could understand...not some strange babble. It is ALWAYS a language...in Corinthians, NO gift is for SELF, but for the building up of believers; 2.) the gift of tongues was NOT for the believer...but for the unbeliever.
SolusChristus924 9 months ago
Comment removed
SolusChristus924 9 months ago
Nice video, friend, however, we cannot take our experiences and tell the bible what it says...it must be the other way around. Why does anyone need a private prayer language that bypasses the mind when you have the Holy Spirit interceding for you and the Son of God interceding for you? (Romans 8/Hebrews 7:25) In 1 Cor. 14:4, the word "edify" is taken by many as something that's good! Why would edifying "self" be good when "selfishness" was the problem with the entire church?
SolusChristus924 9 months ago