Uninsured People Are Immoral and Irresponsible!

[walmartramen]

People here in my town, many are not insured. They still go to the hospital , knowing their bill will be more than they make in a year. They will put in $20 in for there bill to show an effort. I seen this so much here. I worked at walmart for 3 years & other places, its there.

Un employment is running out. Who can pay their COBRA payment? 2 million are losing their benefits. Can the insurance firms take much of them un insured hitting them? $10,000 deductible?

[zthustra]

@walmartramen

Some people where surprized that WalMart supported the reform ... I wasn't.

Once this kicks in, it will be cheaper for almost all of WalMart's low paid employees to be insured by the government than by WalMart.. I am thinking WalMart will opt to provide insurance for ifs best paid employees and let the rest go get Medicaid.

[MotionFur]

I'm such an uninsured asshole :[

[zthustra]

Your sins will be forgiven upon the payment of a special tax assessed only upon those who are not insured.

[kstompaint]

You claim that people who pay with cash out-of-pocket are covering the additional cost? Ridiculous. Do they pay more? Yes. Should they? No.

You dispute the $1000 per person claim. So do I (most things he says are lies). If it's only $1 is it acceptable? Why should anybody forcibly pay for a service rendered by somebody else, to ANY degree?

[zthustra]

Let's see. Medicaid has a fixed maximum fee they will pay clinics and hospitals, so they do not pay more when a private bill goes unpaid.

Medicare also has fixed maximums, so they don't pay more either.

And, guess what, insurance companies also have fixed maximums.

Who does that leave that doesn't have a fixed maximum price they will pay for health care services?

Oh, that's right, the out-of-pocket, private pay patient. Just like I said!

[RaminHAL9001]

When I heard the president speak, I got the sense that he was saying that the number of uninsured people who use the emergency room cost us $1000 each.

Per year, 60 billion on uncovered emergency room bills, 40 million uninsured Americans, this figures to $1500 per year per uninsured person that the taxpayers need to cover.

So I was a bit confused when I first heard your video, because you seemed to take a different meaning from the speech than what I heard.

[zthustra]

The president said:

And it's why those of us with health insurance are also paying a hidden and growing tax for those without it, about $1,000 per year that pays for somebody else's emergency room and charitable care.

Later he said:

The problem is, such irresponsible behavior costs all the rest of us money. If there are affordable options and people still don't sign up for health insurance, it means we pay for these people's expensive emergency room visits.

[zthustra]

I think I hit a bad note in my video when I divided the $60 billion dollar by the total population of almost 307 million. I do a better job with this on my web page. The link is in the description.

[roentgen571]

Is he talking about the total number of Americans? Total number of taxpayers? Total number of taxpayers who have insurance? Was he specific about who he was referring to? I missed it if he said it.

[zthustra]

On review, what he said was, *And it's why those of us with health insurance are also paying a hidden and growing tax for those without it, about $1,000 per year that pays for somebody else's emergency room and charitable care.*

How is that? Hospitals don't send the unpaid bills from uninsured people to insurance companies or insured people!

Most of the unpaid bills, ER, hospital or clinic, are insured people who don't pay their out of pocket.

Medicare/Medicaid are the big nonpayers!

[AntiChristAntiFail]

Fixing my statement a little, I don't JUST mean compulsory, but a reform that makes it worth it. I stopped watching Obama speeches cause they are all fairly similar. He and the repubs fight is making me lose faith in the American system.

[zthustra]

I kept stopping the video every time the camera panned left. The camera showed all of the dems standing and applauding and stopped before we could see all of the reps sitting on their hands.

Sure is a house divided!

[AntiChristAntiFail]

And what frustrates me so is that Obama decided he wants to try and be "bi-partisan" which in this day and age means "total pussy" and has been rolling over so much, his health care bill is almost worthless now. Even if it may have hurt his ratings a little bit in the start, I think he should have pulled a george bush and jsut forced through a Kucinich style bill. Now that son of a bitch had the right idea.

[zthustra]

One of the reasons that I voted for Obama ... yes, I voted for Obama ... was that he seemed like the candidate who could best unify Dems and Reps. I still think that's true of the candidates that were on the ballot.

I don't see concensus for National Health Insurance as long as we are under the spell of the insurance companies and medical industry.

[AntiChristAntiFail]

good points. I guess I worded myself wrong or something, because my idea wasnt compulsory private insurance, because there is no way I'd support the current companies out there, I guess I just failed at saying I want something like the NHS. I donno, I just figure good health is required to pursue happiness and that IS one of our rights as americans right?

[zthustra]

If good health is essential to human happiness, is our good health best achieved by a free market or a social program?

Rights? What are they? Are they human rights or American rights? Are they created by the constitution/bill of rights or do those documents mearly recognize them and charge our government to protect and respect them?

Do humans who disagree with you about social medicine have a right to a free market? Should they be forced to accept social medicine and pay for it?

Hmmmmm?

[AntiChristAntiFail]

I believe that, while the right of the pursuit of happiness is an American right, It is also part of my personal beliefs of Absolute human rights. I believe that anyone has the right to Life, Liberty, Security, and the freedom to Pursue happiness. I believe that so long as one does not violate anothers rights, they may do as they please, therefore, No, I do not think people should be able to resist "socialized medicine" because in any civilized concept it's taken care of.

[AntiChristAntiFail]

To use an awkward but fresh in my mind reference, I play a lot of city building games. The object is to construct a city, provide it with certain amenities and supplies, and construct something that can earn money and make it's people happy. Even in the worst slums one would make to take care of simple labor needs, medical care is almost a given essential if you don't want the people involved to simply die. And the fake people don't have to pay for their healthcare either ;P

[AntiChristAntiFail]

I think Obama's main point he MEANS to make is that compulsory health is needed, in the same way that auto insurance is compulsory. but...I could be wrong. I tend to assume the best in things.

[zthustra]

The compulsory purchase of PRIVATE health insurance does not equal health for the purchaser, it equals profits for the PRIVATE insurance company.

I'm no fan of compulsory pruchase of PRIVATE auto insurance, but it is MUCH different. The auto insurance is to protect other drivers from your liability.

I really get tired of government deciding what I must do because it is best for me. I'm grown up now.

[roentgen571]

that's what just takes my breath away--it's such a bald-faced, blatant handout to the insurance companies--the ones we all hate--and yet we still have people screaming about "death panels" and "government bureaucrats between me and my doctor."

[Malatesa]

Awesome video :)

[funeralsong34]

I see what your saying but I think he was saying its a $1000 hidden tax you pay in insurance premiums which would not be 306 million (US population), so you would have to deduct those who have no insurance, seniors on Medicare, poor on Medicaid, & those covered on family coverage seeing that 2-4 people (wife, children) might be on the same insurance plan. Roughly your probably closer to 70-90 million plans paying 1k each in hidden taxes.

[funeralsong34]

I see what your saying tho, I know Medicare /Medicaid pay lower amounts & that cost is passed onto us & I know its not simply passed onto insurance premiums as you see an aspirin costing $20 or in my brothers case a simple bag of toiletries costing $200. But some of the costs is people who simply can not pay for insurance, my sister was one of them like 20 yrs ago, had her gall blatter removed & racked up like 20k in bill & had to fill bankruptcy , so obviously the hospital made it up somewhere.

[zthustra]

If you or I fail to pay our medical bill, it doesn't get passed on to an insurance company.

The only thing that would change, if you or I were compelled to buy an PRIVATE insurance policy is that the stockholder would get bigger dividends.

[funeralsong34]

Well you worked in the medical field so you would probably have a better knowledge of payment methods so I'll defer to you on that point.

I was simply looking at it at a business perspective, say a convience store has a string of shoplifting in a month although they can write that off as a loss they still offset the costs by raising prices of everything even if its just 1 cent. Business never eats it they will pass loss onto the consumer someway.

[MrUnscientific]

Whilst watching his speech, live, and then recorded (three times in total), on each of the three occasions, I was aware of Obama playing up to the Republican right. I was left entirely UNSHOCKED by any part of his 'calculator inticing' speech . This is what is commonly referred to as "Politics".

A wonderful speech geared towards making a lasting difference. Obama's job is NOT an easy one at the moment and he needs all the support he can get; instead of confessions from the literal minded.

[Malatesa]

I've worked all of my life. I take care of myself (don't drink or smoke or take drugs or over eat etc.) and Obamar wants to force me to pay for insurance that I have never needed in the past and will probably not need for another 20 years. I can't afford that. He feels awkward in that office. He doesn't fit in. He isn't presidential. He can't keep his promises. Now this?

[zthustra]

Before I reply too much to this, I have to ask you if you are suggesting that Americans who oppose HR 3200, essentially the Obama plan, should just stop objecting to misleading numbers and support him because his job is tough and he is an awesome public speaker?

If so, did you feel the same way about President Bush when he took us to war on a false pretense? His job was tough too, he talked to God about it, and war with Iraq has made a lasting difference.

BTW, love your vids!

[MrUnscientific]

I'm going to expunge a potentially long drawn out story short here and say: if it is going to happen (and I believe it will) it is going to have to happen *piece by piece*, with alot of *give and take*....and there's no way it's going to happen all at once

Pretending he isn't a politician and self interested first and foremost, I still see what and more importantly WHO he is up against

A fan of yours

"A perfection of means and a confusion of aims, seems to be our main problem."

Einstein

[zthustra]

Let's get our crystal balls ... oops, I mean scientifically verified predicting devices ... and make a few predictions.

Do you think that the Public Option will be in the final bill?

Notice that I'm not asking IF there will be a final bill. There will be! And it will be, essentially HR3200. My crystal ball tells me so.

Love the Einsein quote and I'm going to be using it a lot in the future.

[MrUnscientific]

Deciphering a Nostradamus quatrain isn't required at this point---common sense alone suggests he is dealing with a bunch of derranged, money-grabbing, self-interested sociopaths ....all else simply follows. In my limited time I've crossed paths with my fair share of sociopaths....predicting their behaviour isn't an easy or admirable task. General human behaviour on the other hand is alot easier to predict. My balls are showing me this is the beginning of the end for big business in healthcare.

[zthustra]

Bernd1964 brings up a point that I think needs to be clarified. There is no tax-based, government-paid program to pay off the medical bills of uninsured people or even of insured people. Even in HR3200 there is no provision to pick up the tab for the uninsured. Taxpayers are not being stiffed for unpaid bills. Clinics and hospitals eat the loss and still manage to make their owners insanely wealthy.

[ancienthebreworg]

Excellent as usual Z, thank you very much for your research and investigation into this issue. Personally, I think insurance (home,auto, health, etc) are all one big scam to milk the people of more money.

[zthustra]

I can't remember which nation did away with private auto insurance and replaced it with national insurance. But there are people who are catching on to the racket called insurance.

[Bernd1964]

Zarathustra, I think you should regard in your estimation that only employed citizens pay the full scale of taxes to the state, that's why the 60 Billion Dollars of healthcare costs for uninsured people must be devided by the number of employed taxpayers and not the overall number of US-habitants.

[zthustra]

Unpaid medical bills are not paid by tax dollars. They are paid by humans who seek and pay for medical care paying for it out of their own pocket.

The government is the fictional person most guilty of demanding care for its insured (Medicare and Medicaid) and then not paying the full price. They, not we, leave their bills unpaid.

And, there is no regress with collection agencies or courts to get money from the government.

The insurance companies are only marginally better.

[AncientAtheist]

Just an excellent video. You just got your first video fav'd by me. People really should see this. I'm just afraid they **still** wouldn't grasp its implications.

[zthustra]

It seems like people with backgrounds in medical billing get it best.

[AncientAtheist]

My spouse spent a couple of years in medical billing but she's just for universal health care because he's a born-again fundamentalist Christian communist. LOL!! Seriously. Don't ask for explanations. Just watch a couple of my old videos called "Jesus in the bedroom".

[brutus149]

Knowing some of the semantics games that Obama has pulled in the past on other issues (he is a lawyer by trade), he's probably not including people that pay for insurance already for the people that pay $1K each and maybe the Medicare stuff too.

[TheAtheistPaladin]

Yes, we really need to crack down on Medicare/Medicaid Fraud, waste, and abuse. It is simply insane.

[zthustra]

I remember making a service call to a clinic. They didn't have a service agreement so we had never been there. He had a cell counter that he said he used all the time but he needed it certified in good condition for some reason. Turns out the sample lines were totally plugged with dried up line cleaner. But he was billing for CBCs. It was touchy because he wouldn't admit that the analyzer didn't work because he might have to pay fro repairs. NOTE: That was an uncommon extreme but it happens.

[tattooskin72]

Wow, this was nicely done. I have never had the stomach to do the research myself... hehe. It's good to have you around doing it for me ;)

[zthustra]

Finding numbers is tough! The industry is very secretive. Even government numbers are difficult.

As an example, I was looking for morbitity and mortality statistics associated with shootings. It was easy to find out how many police officers were shot. But impossible to find out how many people were shot by police.

I was able to find out the total cost of Medicare, but not how much of that was paid on medical claims.

Its a good thing that simple math is all we need to see the problems.