In my years as a paramedic I've seen doctors that couldn't intubate a patient if their lives depended on it. I've also seen nurses that couldn't tell Vfib from v tach. It's all based on what the student learns and how well they practice medicine. I'm currently a CRNA student and I know for a fact that nurse anesthetists are extremely well prepared to work autonomously in the operating room.
this sounds kind of dumb but if a CRNA does pretty much everything that an Anesthestiologiest does then what is the real difference between the two besides one is more money and twice the schooling? thanks just curious
Sheesh! im trying to learn more about nurse anesthetists through the comments but all i see are bunch of arguing and fighting...-__- soo much for being professionals in the medical field whether you went to medical school or not. way to make nurses and doctors look bad.
Does this national organization recognize the absolute need to BIS or other type awareness units for Generals. I do not care for the ASA as they lied for years about awareness.
DrSandmann, I knew from the beginning that there was no way that you were an anesthesiologist. Do you clean the OR in between cases? Just what is it that you do? Why the name "DrSandmann"???
DrSandmann, I knew from the beginning that there was no way that you were an anesthesiologist. Do you clean the OR in between cases? Just what is it that you do?
Dr Sandmann wins the 'act like an asshole and call other people dumb fucks while I shoot off my mouth with one moronic falsehood after another, thinkin I knew sumthin I don't" of the year award.
is this video from 1973? So why are we even arguing? I'm sure laws have changed since then. If certain requirements vary from state to state in PRESENT DAY, then why on earth are we arguing over infomation provided so long ago? That's kinda dumb...
@MissDJ Not at all sure what led you to beleive this video is from 1973. More like 2003. The discussion is NOT about anything but present day realities.
And again, I want to emphasize I'm not undermining the field of CRNA's. I think they are fantastic health care practitioners, just like NPs/PAs are excellent. I'm just against the AANA and independent/solo practice rights, and believe the ACT is the best model by far.
@stoneecold23 You can be against whoever and whatever you want. You can be in favor of whatever you want. CRNAs will go about their business and continue to do what they have done for over 130 years. Deliver safe, quality anesthesia care on par with their physician counterparts.
And to the general public: I ask this question. When your family member is in critical condition and requires surgery with anesthesia, whose hands would you want your care in: a physician or a nurse?
In every field of medicine, mid-levels will claim they can do the same job, with less education, and they all have bogus outcome studies that no reputable medical journal acknowledges. The truth is there are no shortcuts towards doing what a physician does, just as there are no shortcuts in life.
@stoneecold23 I suggest instead that you ask the general public whether they beleive anesthesia is safely delivered in this country at present. When they say yes and acknowledge that people aren't dying left and right from anesthetics, no matter the state or town, hospital large or small, you can then let them know that tens of thousands of patients every year are anesthetized by CRNAs as the sole anesthesia provider in every state. The doomsday rhetoric has been false for decades.
Sorry pal, but it’s only the backwoods shit-holes where CRNAs are the sole anesthesia providers. And even in these shit-holes, they are the sole providers because the hospitals can’t recruit anesthesiologists. Good luck finding any major medical center that doesn’t employ CRNAs.
@stoneecold23 ....In regards to your question, as long as the CRNA is qualified I don't mind being given anesthesia by one. And by the way, I'm studying to become a CRNA once I'm done with nursing school and other requirments. In California a CRNA makes an awesome salary and can works without the supervision of an MD. I think your jealous.
CRNA's are an important part of the healthcare team, as part of an ACT model where doctors are in charge. But to say they are equivalent to a physician is laughable. A doctor receives 12+ years of rigorous training before licensure. Fortunately, despite the militant AANA, major hospitals will never grant crna's equal rights, even if AANA lobbies ignorant congress members to change laws. Let me know the day Mass General or the Sloan-Kettering Cancer Center declares that the CRNA's are independet
@stoneecold23 The fact is, CRNAs in the ACT model practice on their own legal responsibility. You are in fact not responsible for their actions any more than they are responsible for yours. An AA or PA practices under your license and where they go to court so do you. CRNAs, under the law, are independently licensed and accountable. Your hoaky institutional policies CREATE the nexis for your liability should the court find you did not follow your own made up rules. No state imposes the ACT.
CRNAs are independently licensed, but they are not permitted to make diagnoses or perform any of their work without it being at the request of a supervising doctor.
You are an IDIOT. What country are you from. In the US, there are more and more state where CRNA's work without the supervision of any physician (IA, NE, ID, MN, NH, NM, KS, ND, WA, AK, OR, MT, SD, WI, CA, and CO). I often diagnose life-threatening conditions in the OR and treat them. This is all done before there is time to notify any doctor. You can now go back to sitting in your recliner, signing paperwork, watching TV, and calling it anesthesia. Thanks and have a good day.
First off, you guys ALWAYS work under a doctor’s supervision. Maybe not an anesthesiologist, but always under a doctor’s supervision - without exception. Moreover, the only places you work without anesthesiologists are at the small hospitals that are unable to hire anesthesiologists. As for your “diagnosing” conditions in the OR, that’s simply managing your patient. Like all CRNAs, you’re completely full of shit and peddle your wishful thinking as fact.
Do you read journals, watch the news, or stay current with the latest issues affecting your profession? Simply google."anesthesia + opt out" and see what you get. I've seen heart surgery done without an anesthesiologist- no presence, no signature, no charging, or any other association. Have you ever heard of the concept of "QZ"ing cases? This happens all the time, and in bigger facilities too. Google that as well. Does your career even involve healthcare? Starting to wonder.
I’m typing in English, but it’s still no registering in that stupid nurse head of yours. CRNAs are not autonomous practitioners in the sense that they can administer anesthesia to a patient without a doctor of some sort requesting it. This is not the case with anesthesiologists. Anesthesiologists can diagnose AND treat patients, all on their own, without a surgeon or dentist or podiatrist or whatever in the picture. That’s the difference.
Again, google "anesthesia + opt out" and see what comes up. Wow, this is painful. I even listed all the states for you earlier. It would take you a year to diagnose asystole as long as it is taking you to figure this out.
They’re referring to supervision by anesthesiologists, you dumbass. Nobody is talking about letting CRNAs function as autonomous health care providers without medical supervision from a doctor.
Alright nincompoop, I've spelled it out for you. Not sure what else I can do. In five years, when you finally do discover this breaking news (which will be five years old then), please notice it says PHYSICIAN supervision. For your special little head, here is a little assistance- that would include anesthesiologists, surgeons, dentists, dermatologists,..... any physician. Your ignorance is tiring.
I fucking love it! A nurse calling a doctor “nincompoop”. That’s like a tennis player calling an NFL linebacker “pussy”. And once again, nurse, when they say “physician supervision”, they are referring to anesthesiologists. You dumb fuck nurses still have to be supervised by some sort of doctor. It’s called “medical direction”, in most cases.
I give up. There is absolutely no hope. Please explain to me what the point is of a state opting out then. In every state, a CRNA can already practice without the supervision of an anesthesiologist. What is the significance of opting out? You have officially been declared mentally incapable of brushing your own teeth and require a helment 24/7. This dialogue with you has decreased my IQ by at least 3 points.
Well, since you’re a nurse -- which doesn’t require more than an IQ of 70 -- I’d guess that you’re now in the retarded range. I’m sure you can communicate with your fellow nurses with greater ease now. The significance of opting out, nurse, is so that hospitals don’t have to have anesthesiologists on staff. There is a paucity of anesthesiologists and not all hospitals can afford them. But you dumb nurses still need medical supervision from doctors of some sort. Get it?
@DrSandmann Claiming colleagues are retarded you proceed to first act like a baboon and then again display your utter lack of understanding of what the opt out means. Purely an insurance reimbursement issue, it removes any and ALL requirements for ANY physician to supervise a CRNA in ANY way. You foolish man. Your arrogance is only exceeded by your ignorance and lack of facts.
I love the comment about the tennis player vs the linebacker. If you really think about it, the anesthesiologist would be the equivalent of a ball girl on the tennis court, sitting in your recliner, in the OR for maybe 30 seconds tops per case, watching TV, signing paperwork, and calling it anesthesia. I'm your linebacker- in with the patient from preop to recovery room, taking care of business.
Yeah. What the fuck ever. Anesthesiologists are almost always there for induction and recovery, and to evaluate the patients before you idiot nurses even start your IV’s. Why? Because you don’t have medical educations, and aren’t qualified to handle patients on your own without medical direction. So stop trying to claim that your 4 years of nursing training makes you the equivalent of an anesthesiologist with eight years or more of medical training under his or her belt.
@DrSandmann A few F bombs, liberal use of 'idiot' and 'dumb fuck' referring to colleagues, all followed by a display of ignorance when using the terms 'supervision' and 'medical direction' as interchangeable while ignoring the fact that they are are NEVER interchangeable. Stupidity unabated you pretend that insurance terms and state practice requirements have something to do with each other.
@DrSandmann Wow...you are just rude, obnoxious, and not worthy of an opinion. I would love to report you to the AMA and ASA for unprofessional behavior...including a copy of your unsavory communications. I run a small facility you referred to so unfavorably earlier. My surgeons actually feel our CRNAs deliver care equal to or beyond that of anesthesiologists from their previous facilities. The simple fact is you have anger issues. I would suspend you and send you to anger management therapy.
Sure, pal. And let me guess, the surgeons there also consult the nurse-anesthetists on how to perform their surgeries as well, right?
Don’t make statements that you know are complete BS just for the sake of making an argument. The only thing surgeons give a damn about is the procedure starting on time and the patient not moving. Oh, and waking up afterward would be nice too. Beyond that, they’re not evaluating the person giving the gas.
@DrSandmann As I said before...you are not worthy of an opinion. I am so sorry that you are so conflicted and angry. I hope you find peace some day and are able to deal positively with your anger issues. Whether or not you have any real knowledge or experience, you really need to work on your ability to communicate like an adult. Most of my physicians are mature, well educated, and capable communicators...you simply are not. Your childish outbursts simply invalidate any responses you make.
@DrSandmann You are dead wrong. In many underserved rural areas of the country, CRNs work autonomously without anesthesiologists' supervision! You are dumb as fuck!
@DrSandmann REALLY? How many anesthetics have you given to patients absent another physician preforming a procedure? EVERY anesthetic is at a request..and when a CRNA administers it they act under their license ALONE, regardless of how much you might think you supervise..or whether no supervision is required.
I’m not an anesthesiologist. But I do know that anesthesiologists are just like me -- independently practicing physicians who can legally diagnose disease and treat using any modality they choose, so long as it falls within the scope of their training. And indeed, they do on occasion anesthetize patients for reasons not associated with a surgical procedure.
Of course, an idiot like you thinks that the work of an anesthesiologist is limited to putting patients to sleep.
@DrSandmann OH PERFECT! Not an anesthesiologist but perfectly happy to 'tell em how it is' without the slightest bit of experience. Over and over your statements here have been refuted with actual facts. Each time you ignore the fact that you were proven WRONG and proceed to call someone names. I pity the fool who is one of your patients....IF you even have patients or practice medicine at this point.
@DrSandmann And of course you embarrass yourself again with your ignorance. There is NO DIFFERENCE in the clinical practice of anesthesia between an anesthesiologist and CRNA. You cannot name a drug, clinical test, treatment modality, anesthetic technique, surgical procedure, etc. which is the scope of practice of an anesthesiologist and not a CRNA, unless an institution makes it so by policy.
And pay attention I said MDs always give anesth to pts having procedures done by another physician.
I see. So the fact that anesthesiologists went to medical school while CRNAs went to nursing school, and the fact that anesthesiologists spend four years in residency while CRNAs spend 2 to 2.5 years in CRNA school is completely lost on you?
Typical nurse stupidity. Considering their nursing education to be more significant than it really is, and disregarding the significance of the medical education they never had.
@DrSandmann No it is not, but what is your point? Again you regress to name calling instead of recognizing that you have been proven to make utterly false statements exposing your complete lack of knowledge and understanding of nurse anesthesia practice in this country. You no longer have any credibility.
@DrSandmann It has become obvious that you in fact are not a physician. The last statement is consistent with lack of intellect and a childish need for "I know you are but what am I" responses when shown lacking. The use of a circa 1987 video game character as a user name. Lack of understanding of the functions of state licensing boards and federal insurance programs. Propensity to call groups of heath care providers 'stupid', or worse, especially when cornered. You are dismissed.
@DrSandmann OMG stop bashing nurses! If this is how doctors look at nurses then I may reconsider that profession. You said nurses need a doctor supervision because they are not properly trained. Well that is a lie because I am pretty sure that they would not make untrained people become nurses. Plus EVERYONE knows the hospital will not function properly without nurses so stop bashing them. There are some things a nurse can do that a doctor cannot & vice versa. In the year 2015 NP will need a DNP
@DrSandmann This statement is COMPLETELY FALSE. 40 states do not have any physician “supervision” requirement for CRNAs in their nursing or medical practice regulations. Include clinical “direction” requirements in addition to “supervision,” 32 states have no physician supervision or clinical direction requirement. No state requires an anesthesiologist EVER supervise a CRNA. Ninny.
@digitalnicko1 Physics, Chemistry, Biochemistry, Organic Chemistry, anatomy and physiology, pharmacology >all specific to anesthesia practice. You are expected to have completed undergrad courses in these areas. See the AANAdotCOM website for info on 'becoming a CRNA, and a list of accredited programs. Follow the links to the school websites for course curriculum.'
@digitalnicko1 You need plan no further than completing the undergraduate science requirements of the BSN program. These are the entry level sciences needed for a CRNA program. No physics is required until the graduate program in anesthesia. The list I gave are part of the curriculum in the master's anesthesia program. You will not have to seek out the courses on your own.
Anyone looking for grendel130's comments, alas i finally had to block him and delete them all. Abject stupidity is tolerable for a finite amount of time....and his was up.
If you want to simply repeat more of the same uninformed, baseless and false dribble that is also up to you. But if you have nothing new or intelligent doing so will just convince me to delete all your comments to date.
@grendel130 More nonsense. Ask for an anesthesiologist as far in advance as you like at a hospital which does not use them...you will NEVER get one. Standard 'supervision' rate is 1:4. Why? Because that is the highest allowed ratio from Medicare if the anesthesiologist wants to bill for his 'services'. Otherwise the CRNA gets 100% of the fee. Still waiting for ANY data you can point to that shows CRNAs are less safe than anesthesiologists. I dare you.
I would point out that in many hospitals 'demanding' an anesthesiologist results in your surgery being canceled and your having to find another hospital and surgeon since only CRNAs deliver the anesthesia there and no anesthesiologist is on staff. In the vast remainder of facilities you may have a similar result since the anesthesiologist will not drop everything for you, covering 4 CRNA rooms instead. And he won't care if you want to leave since he knows CRNAs give excellent care.
@grendel130 Of course anyone who reviews the comments here will again note that you accuse me of saying something I did not and acting in a manner which I have not. You however have ignored my request for referencing data or research to support your opinions. CRNAs have no anxiety about 'being "me too providers". 150 years of providing anesthesia, and being the first providers to do so as a specialty seems to make that suggestion absurd.
remvssf223 and jerryjohnston2009, veritable fountains of misinformation, outright lies and ignorance no longer have working YouTube accounts. Draw your own conclusions.
I am a CRNA at a community hospital. It's simple you have good/bad MDAs and good/bad CRNAs. However, at my hospital I would choose any of my co-workers(CRNAS) to give me anesthesia rather than one of our Anesthesiologists. The Crnas I work with are just safer individuals.
This is the case amongst the 0verhwhelming majority of CRNAs. Either 40,000 CRNAs, who know the reality of the practice of anesthesia are suffering from a mass delusion and have no concern for themselves for their family members...or as anesthesia professionals they know that CRNA practice is above reproach and the highest quality which does NOT depend on an MDA being within a hundred miles,
Since I have made NO comment disparaging any anesthesiologist (true or otherwise...whatever that means), such comments can hardly have 'said it all'. Your unfounded, baseless, and biased statements regarding your views of CRNA practice are much more telling. Please cite some reference which we can all navigate to supporting your position.
Also, comapring 4 years of nursing school to 4 years of med school is idiotic. Additionally, nurses do not do residencies and all difficult cases are assigned to MD's. When surgeons get surgery they ALWAYS specify an anesthesiologist. CRNA's are o.k. in a supposring role, but I don't trust them to practice independently, and I don't care what the Board of Nursing says. I don;' want cut-rate anesthesia from a nurse.
Difficult cases are not always assigned to MD's. When surgeons have surgery they do not always request anesthesiologists. While you are absolutely entitled to your opinions regarding CRNAs, the Board of Nursing, etc., don't be surprised when you are asked to back up your opinions with published data or sources more reliable than your personal beliefs.
@DrSandmann TSK TSK, from your user name I assume you are an anesthesiologist or a resident. Your are very likely pissed off realizing that your prolonged education contains large quantities of information you will never use, and which does not prepare you to practice anesthesia. You graduate 100-200k in the hole. The CRNA has been making 150k/yr after their 7 years of education and you were dumb enough to go the physician route for another 5 years. Don't blame CRNAs for your poor life planning.
A nurse Anesthesist does exactly the same job as an Anesthesiologist MD. Many of them work in rural areas because the MD doesnt want to work there for the lower salary. CRNA are well trained, I would love to see your ass demand an MD when your Hopital doesnt provide one. You can and will get one for about 2-3K more on your bill.
Is this a boring job? I mean are you sitting hour after hour looking at vitals on monitors while surgeons work on the patient? Is there a doctor of anesthesiology normally nearby? What kind of malpractice insurance is required? They publish salaries from $110K to $300K. Do you have to buy your own insurance?
LEDDHED What you meant to say "It seems just like going to stewardess school FIRST to KNOW ABOUT PASSENGERS AND THAN FLIGHT SCHOOL TO learn how to fly a plane"
Call me Beowulf. Im a 22 year old RN in a CRNA program. I think that CRNA's are just as safe, if not safer than MD's.. first off they follow a much tighter protocol regimen for Anesthesia, not only because we HAVE TO, but statistics prove that its much safer to rely on tried and true methods. Secondly, our heads aren't as big, and in-case you didn't pick up on the metaphor, I meant ego.
get your BSN RN first and see how you like working in the acute care setting for 1-2 years. If you can handle/master the mental aspect of the job, then you'll be ready to take classes for CRNA. Ofcourse, easier said than done. you'd have to be able to handle stress very well. be happy =D
why is it so hard to find appropriate and good information regarding nurse anaesthesia education requirements/experience? i've been going about this for months and i still get confused... this is rediculous...
@MissDJ Have you ever looked into a school by you to see what's their requirements? This is usually a good start. Keep seeking you shall find. Good luck :)
Adding on to what Paramedic851 said, I've seen some programs that allow someone into a MSN program to become a CRNA if they already have a Bachelor's degree in something other than nursing.
To correct some opinions, A surgeon cannot tell a nurse anesthetist what medications to give, they can merely say they want or do not want there patient paralyzed for this case and so forth, the CRNA controls how this is done
You can get a 2 year Assoc. Degree in Nursing (ADN) and then a completion degree which is uaually 1 more year (3 years total), but some completion programs require x many years RN experience. You can also just do the BSN (4 years) straight through. After that, a CRNA program is usually between 27-36 months in which you earn a Masters degree.
Most CRNA programs I've researched require a minimum 1 year of "critical care experience" as an RN. I am not sure its that has to be a licensed RN or a BSN. Anyone know?
lehalirio-thanks for your reply....I'm not a CRNA, just an airline pilot with recently diagnosed cancer and who needs surgery and wants the "best" anesthesia..in many satates, the CRNA does BUT "have" to work under the MD, but many do............this CCRNA "supervision" by MD is obviously a political topic...........I was just looking for safety in a very bad situation....
Get your lies straight. Either you are an airline pilot by trade with cancer frightened of CRNAs or someone who has worked with CRNAs for 25 years and find they provide excellent care.
The local university medical center has 2 surgery centers, one uses CRNA's and the other uses only anesthesiologists. The chief of anesthesia told me that she would request an anesthesiologist to do her own anesthesia rather than a nurse.
there's no difference in anesthesia administration whether it would be done by an anesthesiologist or CRNA for as long as they know what they are doing and they are trained well.. don't underestimate the CRNAs as they also have received rigorous and proper training as anesthesiologist did.. the problem with some people is that they tend to revere and trust MDs more over the likes of CRNAs and nurses... have you had any idea that its the nurse who stays with the patients most of the time?
sounds reasonable; when Iasked this question to the chief of anesthesia, the told me that if CRNA's were as good as anesthesiologists, then why go to med school? She said that properly supervised, they are o.k. solo not safe in her opinion. Now I'm confused and nervous......not willing to get the surgery..
Get a properly trained CRNA with lots of experience. CRNA's have been trained since nursing school and reinforced in the ICU experience they recieve to deal with ANY situation effectively, rapidly and appropriately. I doubt many MDA's have even seen a Code Blue/respiratory arrest prior to medical school. Difference: CRNAs are specifically trained to b on high alert and deal with situations that are critical and to avoid an even more crit sit.CRNAs require intense critical thinking skills.
Of course an ignorant aneshesiologist would say that. Maybe you can refer him/her to the You Tube video provided by the AANA "Nurse Anesthetist." It is the one shown above. This would clarify discrepencies in training thought to be less in a CRNA than an MDA.
People are uneducated. My work experience in an ICU has shown this greatly. RN's are the bulk of the care in hospitals and elsewhere. The public has no idea what goes on behind the scenes and have been brainwashed by the media and politics regarding our roles.
All in all, I start CRNA school and won't be hesitant to take on any arrogant MDA regarding knowledge, competence, and skills. The problem is people's lack of research and knowledge regarding CRNA's practice and history.
When someone is explaining "ACUTE care" it is basically a hospital setting. For CRNAs it involves working in a hospital setting in an Intensive Care unit for 1-5 years prior to applying to an Anesthesia school. Min req. usually 3years. Have to be a BSN with ICU exp. So you are looking at an avg of (incl Nursing school) 7 years experience prior to formal Anesthesia education and training. A lot of didactic and theory as well as an abundance of hands on training. Excellent basis to start with!
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CRNA's are a very sad commentay on the state of affairs on medical practice-I need surgery, but don't want a nurse doing my anesthesia-I'll risk colon cancer before I trust a nurse (CRNA) to do my GA..it's not safe to have less than an anesthesiologist (MD)
Ok.. I agree with you. But please, when your surgical wound starts to hurt or you need to go to bathroom, don't call any nurse. Be alone, with your tears. Probably, your anesthesiologist [someone, in your opinion, better than a CRNA] will not stay at your bedside.
Remvssf223: No! I did not say it. But I would like to say that CRNA are nurses before the specialization. And the look about care is very different of one anesthesiologist. Nurses make the difference!
lehilario: I was just kidding.....I worked with CRNA's for 25 years and was involved in their recertification; the CRNA program is a difficult one..It's a shame that some CRNA's insist on comparing themselves to MDA's..none of the CRNA's that I have known consider themselves "equal" to a MDA, but working under the supervision of an anesthesiologist, a CRNA can provide excellent care. Just my opinion, I did not intend to offend you.
@remvssf223 remvssf223: I know about some nurses who thinking and comparing themselves to MD, MDA too. As you told, it is a shame. You did not offend me. Sorry if I showed it. So, I do not know if you know, but I am from Brazil and here we do not have CRNA and I have one question. I have been researched a lot about this topic and great universities from US says that a CRNA does not work under the supervision of an anesthesiologist. Can you explain me it?
@garysconstipated First off, I hope everything goes well with the surgery. However, I think your argument is fouled. A LOT of people assume that because a person has 'MD' after his/her name, it makes the individual a master in the art and science of medicine. While that may be true for many, it is not that way for all. MDs vary significantly in ability, knowledge, and experience, as well as CRNAs. A CRNA with thousands of cases under his/her belt is 'safer', in my opnion, than an MD with 100
@dockcr Anesthesiologists are most useful for specialized cases. These include high-risk surgeries, cardio-thoracic surgery, and pain management. These cases require knowledge of more difficult concepts that are learned during the 8 years of medical school, residency, and fellowship.
@CambridgeHeights Please cite these "more difficult concepts" with some detail. With the practice of anesthesia admired for its safety and low rate of complications and mortality by all other medical and nursing specialties, along with a 100+ year record of CRNA practice, the MD vs CRNA argument is tired, illogical, unsupported, childish, merit-less and contrary to the interest of patients. Playing on patient's fears for political reasons is irresponsible. 'It sounds good' is not science.
@CambridgeHeights Patently false. I am a CRNA and i have done thousands....yes THOUSANDS of 'heart surgery' cases. Started with the hundreds I did in anesthesia school (so many because my program did not compete with an anesthesia residency program for procedures so i did 2 per day for months...when I wasn't doing abdominal or thoracic aortas, pneumonectomies [partial or total lung removals], kidney or liver transplants, cerebral aneurysms, mult trauma, pediatric hearts, transplants, etc. etc.
@medicvideo ......Tell me what I should begin studying now so that when I get to Anesthetists school I'll already be prepared. I'm still going for my RN license, but I like to think ahead.
@CambridgeHeights go to my.clevelandclinicDOTorg/anesthesia/nurses.aspx and scroll down the page taking note of the role CRNAs play in cardiothoracic anesthesia at the nation's #1 cardiac surgery hospital. Don't miss Carol Ratcliff CRNA, Chief anesthetist dept of cardiothoracic anesthesia.....for pete's sake.
@medicvideo So then are anesthesiologists just massively over educated? Anesthesia school is only 3 years. Anesthiologist residency is 4 years and they work 80 hours per week and many do fellowships that last an additional year or 2. Are you saying that that much schooling is a waste and they should should just get a nursing degree and then 3 years of anesthesia school?
@CambridgeHeights I won't touch that with a 10 foot pole. No way I am giving career advice, or offering a useless opinion on anesthesiologist training. The question here is: Do CRNAs provide quality anesthesia, even for complex and high risk surgical procedures? The answer is yes. Precisely what amount of training, and in what profession, allows for desired quality of care seems to have been determined by the health care system, insurance entities, courts and patients.
@medicvideo So basically you are saying the anesthesiologists are overqualified. They wasted all those years training and could have just went to anesthesiology school . That's what you are saying even if you won't directly say it.
@CambridgeHeights Sorry, but you don't get to put words in my mouth. However you can scroll back to a comment I made on here three months ago to "DrSandman" for a sufficient answer.
@medicvideo Do you have any data showing that MD's and CRNA's have the same mortality and morbidity all other things being equal? I just find it hard to believe that that would be the case given the more rigorous selection process and training that anesthesiologists go through.
Interesting video; the distinction to anesthesia being provided by nurses vs physicians seems odd to me; we don't have the CRNA profession in the UK as far as I know. My educational background included med school, but my career is in research and I'm not familiar with practice in the US. A question if I may? Are MD's in such short supply that you use nurses to administer anesthesia? This discussion has made me qute curious; admittedly I know little about your system in the US. Thanks.
colliderproject: Search the web fr the Internationale Association of Nurse Anesthetists. Nurse anesthetists provide quality anesthesia all over the world.
PJ-you are taking my comments way too seriously, my last comment was obviously meant as a joke..........I just had a simple procedure with a CRNA; she doesn't think that she is interchangeable with an anesthesiologist...and unlike you, she doesn't take this as an insult. She's a nurse, a highly trained one, but she's not a physician.
well it didnt came from me. what i stated was taken from the 1999 survey. my arguments are based on what ive researched geox2f and not just based on unfounded statements like what your are making. and youre saying that the anesthetist wants to get even with you? what are you a child? who gets even with someone who took away his lollipop? get a grip man. i guess you need to put more maturity in your brain to make better arguments -- END OF STATEMENT--
And PJ-don't think that I believe that CRNA's have no place in the OR, I don't. Even though I had a disasterous experience with one,I'm having minor surgery (ulnar nerve trans) done friday and a CRNA whom I work with is doing the Bier Block, unsupervised. This is because the MDA doen't do too many and she does and he won't do the case without propofol and fentanyl and she will do it with just lido and 1gm ancef. Maybe she read my comments and is going to get even with me........
Pj-if there were no difference between CRNA's and MDA's, we would not have 2 classes of anesthesia providers: nurses (CRNA's) and MDA's (physician's). I asked several CRNA's whom I work with if they agreed with: no difference in the quality of care provided by CRNAs and their physician counterparts" ...after getting the "we are safe too mantra" not one CRNA thought that she was equivilent to an MDA as an anesthesia provider.
According to a 1999 report from the Institute of Medicine, anesthesia care is nearly 50 times safer than it was in the early 1980s. Numerous outcomes studies have demonstrated that there is no difference in the quality of care provided by CRNAs and their physician counterparts"
crna have as much responsibility as anesthesiologists, it's not an easy job, you are held liable for everything you do. some people think that a crna can just do whatever he wants, if you kill the patient they will take away your license and put you in jail
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
It's a proven fact that CRNA's have a MUCH higher rate of anesthesia-related complications compared to MDA's. No amount of cheerleading is going to change the fact that anesthesia is the domain of a physician; nurses can assist, but should not be providing anesthesia services solo. It's not safe; if the average patient knew that his anesthesia proider was a nurse; he/she would demand an anesthesiologist.
Did they report how many cases were sat by MDA vs CRNA? Are they comparable cases...a level 1 trauma is not the same as a carpal tunnel release. Are the types of anesthetics defined as related to the reported bad outcomes, general vs regional. I was just curious.
@jerryjohnston2009 haha. did u take statistics as part of your med school. hmmm 80% of anesthestics in the US are given by CRNA's. so why are the anesthesia-related complications rates higher? Dont bend the stats because u are demoted to doing preop interviews and pencil pushing rather than passing gas.
@jerryjohnston2009 As with the rest of your posts here, you again state utter falsehoods. Multiple studies have proven no difference in patient outcome whether a CRNA or MD does the anesthesia. CRNAs have been practicing for 150 years. Methinks people would have caught on by now if CRNAs were anything less than safe, quality practitioners. You have no clue about anything you have spoken about. Yet you present your statements as proven facts, the mark or an insecure fool.
We are STILL waiting to provide the evidence of your "proven fact". Since none exists, and you refuse to do so, owe now all know you lie as it suits you.
Good video
jjk5591oct 1 month ago
In my years as a paramedic I've seen doctors that couldn't intubate a patient if their lives depended on it. I've also seen nurses that couldn't tell Vfib from v tach. It's all based on what the student learns and how well they practice medicine. I'm currently a CRNA student and I know for a fact that nurse anesthetists are extremely well prepared to work autonomously in the operating room.
brazzeal15 4 months ago
this sounds kind of dumb but if a CRNA does pretty much everything that an Anesthestiologiest does then what is the real difference between the two besides one is more money and twice the schooling? thanks just curious
k3v015Mk 5 months ago
CNRA's have been around for 100 years and are no different than a physician? Stop kidding yourself and get a clue.
tlsasser 7 months ago
@tlsasser What pray tell is a CNRA? Thanks for stopping by.....
medicvideo 7 months ago
@medicvideo simple misspelling, but the point is grasped by others.
tlsasser 6 months ago
Sheesh! im trying to learn more about nurse anesthetists through the comments but all i see are bunch of arguing and fighting...-__- soo much for being professionals in the medical field whether you went to medical school or not. way to make nurses and doctors look bad.
TomoexNanami 10 months ago 7
studentcrna.blogspot.com to get tips and info re: CRNA school
mrindia1 11 months ago
Does this national organization recognize the absolute need to BIS or other type awareness units for Generals. I do not care for the ASA as they lied for years about awareness.
biggseye 1 year ago
@biggseye The AANA Position Statement on anesthesia awareness can be found here: aanaDOTcom/ResourcesDOTaspx?id=24804
Obviously replace "DOT" both places in the link with a period. Scroll down to PS 2.12
medicvideo 1 year ago
DrSandman, after having been given every opportunity to engage in intelligent, adult debate, has been blocked from further commenting on this video.
medicvideo 1 year ago
DrSandmann, I knew from the beginning that there was no way that you were an anesthesiologist. Do you clean the OR in between cases? Just what is it that you do? Why the name "DrSandmann"???
sandysasquatch 1 year ago
@sandysasquatch
Dr. Sandman is in reference to an old Nintendo game I used to play when I was a kid. From Mike Tyson’s Punchout. There was a Mr. Sandman.
DrSandmann 1 year ago
DrSandmann, I knew from the beginning that there was no way that you were an anesthesiologist. Do you clean the OR in between cases? Just what is it that you do?
sandysasquatch 1 year ago
@sandysasquatch
I’m not an anesthesiologist, you idiot. I never said I was.
DrSandmann 1 year ago
Dr Sandmann wins the 'act like an asshole and call other people dumb fucks while I shoot off my mouth with one moronic falsehood after another, thinkin I knew sumthin I don't" of the year award.
medicvideo 1 year ago 6
is this video from 1973? So why are we even arguing? I'm sure laws have changed since then. If certain requirements vary from state to state in PRESENT DAY, then why on earth are we arguing over infomation provided so long ago? That's kinda dumb...
MissDJ 1 year ago
@MissDJ Not at all sure what led you to beleive this video is from 1973. More like 2003. The discussion is NOT about anything but present day realities.
medicvideo 1 year ago
And again, I want to emphasize I'm not undermining the field of CRNA's. I think they are fantastic health care practitioners, just like NPs/PAs are excellent. I'm just against the AANA and independent/solo practice rights, and believe the ACT is the best model by far.
stoneecold23 1 year ago
@stoneecold23 You can be against whoever and whatever you want. You can be in favor of whatever you want. CRNAs will go about their business and continue to do what they have done for over 130 years. Deliver safe, quality anesthesia care on par with their physician counterparts.
medicvideo 1 year ago
And to the general public: I ask this question. When your family member is in critical condition and requires surgery with anesthesia, whose hands would you want your care in: a physician or a nurse?
In every field of medicine, mid-levels will claim they can do the same job, with less education, and they all have bogus outcome studies that no reputable medical journal acknowledges. The truth is there are no shortcuts towards doing what a physician does, just as there are no shortcuts in life.
stoneecold23 1 year ago
@stoneecold23 I suggest instead that you ask the general public whether they beleive anesthesia is safely delivered in this country at present. When they say yes and acknowledge that people aren't dying left and right from anesthetics, no matter the state or town, hospital large or small, you can then let them know that tens of thousands of patients every year are anesthetized by CRNAs as the sole anesthesia provider in every state. The doomsday rhetoric has been false for decades.
medicvideo 1 year ago
@medicvideo
Sorry pal, but it’s only the backwoods shit-holes where CRNAs are the sole anesthesia providers. And even in these shit-holes, they are the sole providers because the hospitals can’t recruit anesthesiologists. Good luck finding any major medical center that doesn’t employ CRNAs.
DrSandmann 1 year ago
@stoneecold23 ....In regards to your question, as long as the CRNA is qualified I don't mind being given anesthesia by one. And by the way, I'm studying to become a CRNA once I'm done with nursing school and other requirments. In California a CRNA makes an awesome salary and can works without the supervision of an MD. I think your jealous.
chrissline77 1 year ago
@chrissline77
did not read lol
stoneecold23 1 year ago
CRNA's are an important part of the healthcare team, as part of an ACT model where doctors are in charge. But to say they are equivalent to a physician is laughable. A doctor receives 12+ years of rigorous training before licensure. Fortunately, despite the militant AANA, major hospitals will never grant crna's equal rights, even if AANA lobbies ignorant congress members to change laws. Let me know the day Mass General or the Sloan-Kettering Cancer Center declares that the CRNA's are independet
stoneecold23 1 year ago
@stoneecold23 The fact is, CRNAs in the ACT model practice on their own legal responsibility. You are in fact not responsible for their actions any more than they are responsible for yours. An AA or PA practices under your license and where they go to court so do you. CRNAs, under the law, are independently licensed and accountable. Your hoaky institutional policies CREATE the nexis for your liability should the court find you did not follow your own made up rules. No state imposes the ACT.
medicvideo 1 year ago
@medicvideo
CRNAs are independently licensed, but they are not permitted to make diagnoses or perform any of their work without it being at the request of a supervising doctor.
DrSandmann 1 year ago
@DrSandmann
You are an IDIOT. What country are you from. In the US, there are more and more state where CRNA's work without the supervision of any physician (IA, NE, ID, MN, NH, NM, KS, ND, WA, AK, OR, MT, SD, WI, CA, and CO). I often diagnose life-threatening conditions in the OR and treat them. This is all done before there is time to notify any doctor. You can now go back to sitting in your recliner, signing paperwork, watching TV, and calling it anesthesia. Thanks and have a good day.
sandysasquatch 1 year ago
@sandysasquatch
First off, you guys ALWAYS work under a doctor’s supervision. Maybe not an anesthesiologist, but always under a doctor’s supervision - without exception. Moreover, the only places you work without anesthesiologists are at the small hospitals that are unable to hire anesthesiologists. As for your “diagnosing” conditions in the OR, that’s simply managing your patient. Like all CRNAs, you’re completely full of shit and peddle your wishful thinking as fact.
DrSandmann 1 year ago
@DrSandmann
Do you read journals, watch the news, or stay current with the latest issues affecting your profession? Simply google."anesthesia + opt out" and see what you get. I've seen heart surgery done without an anesthesiologist- no presence, no signature, no charging, or any other association. Have you ever heard of the concept of "QZ"ing cases? This happens all the time, and in bigger facilities too. Google that as well. Does your career even involve healthcare? Starting to wonder.
sandysasquatch 1 year ago
@sandysasquatch ‘
I’m typing in English, but it’s still no registering in that stupid nurse head of yours. CRNAs are not autonomous practitioners in the sense that they can administer anesthesia to a patient without a doctor of some sort requesting it. This is not the case with anesthesiologists. Anesthesiologists can diagnose AND treat patients, all on their own, without a surgeon or dentist or podiatrist or whatever in the picture. That’s the difference.
DrSandmann 1 year ago
@DrSandmann
Again, google "anesthesia + opt out" and see what comes up. Wow, this is painful. I even listed all the states for you earlier. It would take you a year to diagnose asystole as long as it is taking you to figure this out.
sandysasquatch 1 year ago
@sandysasquatch
They’re referring to supervision by anesthesiologists, you dumbass. Nobody is talking about letting CRNAs function as autonomous health care providers without medical supervision from a doctor.
DrSandmann 1 year ago
@DrSandmann
Alright nincompoop, I've spelled it out for you. Not sure what else I can do. In five years, when you finally do discover this breaking news (which will be five years old then), please notice it says PHYSICIAN supervision. For your special little head, here is a little assistance- that would include anesthesiologists, surgeons, dentists, dermatologists,..... any physician. Your ignorance is tiring.
sandysasquatch 1 year ago
@sandysasquatch
I fucking love it! A nurse calling a doctor “nincompoop”. That’s like a tennis player calling an NFL linebacker “pussy”. And once again, nurse, when they say “physician supervision”, they are referring to anesthesiologists. You dumb fuck nurses still have to be supervised by some sort of doctor. It’s called “medical direction”, in most cases.
DrSandmann 1 year ago
@DrSandmann
I give up. There is absolutely no hope. Please explain to me what the point is of a state opting out then. In every state, a CRNA can already practice without the supervision of an anesthesiologist. What is the significance of opting out? You have officially been declared mentally incapable of brushing your own teeth and require a helment 24/7. This dialogue with you has decreased my IQ by at least 3 points.
sandysasquatch 1 year ago
@sandysasquatch
Well, since you’re a nurse -- which doesn’t require more than an IQ of 70 -- I’d guess that you’re now in the retarded range. I’m sure you can communicate with your fellow nurses with greater ease now. The significance of opting out, nurse, is so that hospitals don’t have to have anesthesiologists on staff. There is a paucity of anesthesiologists and not all hospitals can afford them. But you dumb nurses still need medical supervision from doctors of some sort. Get it?
DrSandmann 1 year ago
@DrSandmann Claiming colleagues are retarded you proceed to first act like a baboon and then again display your utter lack of understanding of what the opt out means. Purely an insurance reimbursement issue, it removes any and ALL requirements for ANY physician to supervise a CRNA in ANY way. You foolish man. Your arrogance is only exceeded by your ignorance and lack of facts.
medicvideo 1 year ago
@DrSandmann
I love the comment about the tennis player vs the linebacker. If you really think about it, the anesthesiologist would be the equivalent of a ball girl on the tennis court, sitting in your recliner, in the OR for maybe 30 seconds tops per case, watching TV, signing paperwork, and calling it anesthesia. I'm your linebacker- in with the patient from preop to recovery room, taking care of business.
sandysasquatch 1 year ago
@sandysasquatch
Yeah. What the fuck ever. Anesthesiologists are almost always there for induction and recovery, and to evaluate the patients before you idiot nurses even start your IV’s. Why? Because you don’t have medical educations, and aren’t qualified to handle patients on your own without medical direction. So stop trying to claim that your 4 years of nursing training makes you the equivalent of an anesthesiologist with eight years or more of medical training under his or her belt.
DrSandmann 1 year ago
@DrSandmann A few F bombs, liberal use of 'idiot' and 'dumb fuck' referring to colleagues, all followed by a display of ignorance when using the terms 'supervision' and 'medical direction' as interchangeable while ignoring the fact that they are are NEVER interchangeable. Stupidity unabated you pretend that insurance terms and state practice requirements have something to do with each other.
medicvideo 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@medicvideo
Nurses are not my colleagues.
DrSandmann 1 year ago
@DrSandmann Wow...you are just rude, obnoxious, and not worthy of an opinion. I would love to report you to the AMA and ASA for unprofessional behavior...including a copy of your unsavory communications. I run a small facility you referred to so unfavorably earlier. My surgeons actually feel our CRNAs deliver care equal to or beyond that of anesthesiologists from their previous facilities. The simple fact is you have anger issues. I would suspend you and send you to anger management therapy.
snoozeac 1 year ago
@snoozeac
Sure, pal. And let me guess, the surgeons there also consult the nurse-anesthetists on how to perform their surgeries as well, right?
Don’t make statements that you know are complete BS just for the sake of making an argument. The only thing surgeons give a damn about is the procedure starting on time and the patient not moving. Oh, and waking up afterward would be nice too. Beyond that, they’re not evaluating the person giving the gas.
DrSandmann 1 year ago
@DrSandmann As I said before...you are not worthy of an opinion. I am so sorry that you are so conflicted and angry. I hope you find peace some day and are able to deal positively with your anger issues. Whether or not you have any real knowledge or experience, you really need to work on your ability to communicate like an adult. Most of my physicians are mature, well educated, and capable communicators...you simply are not. Your childish outbursts simply invalidate any responses you make.
snoozeac 1 year ago
@snoozeac
And your post here isn’t a childish outburst? LOL
DrSandmann 1 year ago
@DrSandmann You are dead wrong. In many underserved rural areas of the country, CRNs work autonomously without anesthesiologists' supervision! You are dumb as fuck!
Alexander8345 4 months ago
@DrSandmann REALLY? How many anesthetics have you given to patients absent another physician preforming a procedure? EVERY anesthetic is at a request..and when a CRNA administers it they act under their license ALONE, regardless of how much you might think you supervise..or whether no supervision is required.
medicvideo 1 year ago
@medicvideo
I’m not an anesthesiologist. But I do know that anesthesiologists are just like me -- independently practicing physicians who can legally diagnose disease and treat using any modality they choose, so long as it falls within the scope of their training. And indeed, they do on occasion anesthetize patients for reasons not associated with a surgical procedure.
Of course, an idiot like you thinks that the work of an anesthesiologist is limited to putting patients to sleep.
DrSandmann 1 year ago
@DrSandmann OH PERFECT! Not an anesthesiologist but perfectly happy to 'tell em how it is' without the slightest bit of experience. Over and over your statements here have been refuted with actual facts. Each time you ignore the fact that you were proven WRONG and proceed to call someone names. I pity the fool who is one of your patients....IF you even have patients or practice medicine at this point.
medicvideo 1 year ago
@DrSandmann And of course you embarrass yourself again with your ignorance. There is NO DIFFERENCE in the clinical practice of anesthesia between an anesthesiologist and CRNA. You cannot name a drug, clinical test, treatment modality, anesthetic technique, surgical procedure, etc. which is the scope of practice of an anesthesiologist and not a CRNA, unless an institution makes it so by policy.
And pay attention I said MDs always give anesth to pts having procedures done by another physician.
medicvideo 1 year ago
@medicvideo
I see. So the fact that anesthesiologists went to medical school while CRNAs went to nursing school, and the fact that anesthesiologists spend four years in residency while CRNAs spend 2 to 2.5 years in CRNA school is completely lost on you?
Typical nurse stupidity. Considering their nursing education to be more significant than it really is, and disregarding the significance of the medical education they never had.
DrSandmann 1 year ago
@DrSandmann No it is not, but what is your point? Again you regress to name calling instead of recognizing that you have been proven to make utterly false statements exposing your complete lack of knowledge and understanding of nurse anesthesia practice in this country. You no longer have any credibility.
medicvideo 1 year ago
@medicvideo
I’ve been proven to be making false statements? And as a bunch of nurses, I’m sure you’re just exuding credibility, right?
DrSandmann 1 year ago
@DrSandmann It has become obvious that you in fact are not a physician. The last statement is consistent with lack of intellect and a childish need for "I know you are but what am I" responses when shown lacking. The use of a circa 1987 video game character as a user name. Lack of understanding of the functions of state licensing boards and federal insurance programs. Propensity to call groups of heath care providers 'stupid', or worse, especially when cornered. You are dismissed.
medicvideo 1 year ago 4
@DrSandmann OMG stop bashing nurses! If this is how doctors look at nurses then I may reconsider that profession. You said nurses need a doctor supervision because they are not properly trained. Well that is a lie because I am pretty sure that they would not make untrained people become nurses. Plus EVERYONE knows the hospital will not function properly without nurses so stop bashing them. There are some things a nurse can do that a doctor cannot & vice versa. In the year 2015 NP will need a DNP
myalouis911 8 months ago
@DrSandmann This statement is COMPLETELY FALSE. 40 states do not have any physician “supervision” requirement for CRNAs in their nursing or medical practice regulations. Include clinical “direction” requirements in addition to “supervision,” 32 states have no physician supervision or clinical direction requirement. No state requires an anesthesiologist EVER supervise a CRNA. Ninny.
medicvideo 1 year ago
@DrSandmann How can you stand being so ignorant of the facts?
medicvideo 1 year ago
@DrSandmann Absolutely 100% false. You are CLUELESS regarding the law here.
medicvideo 1 year ago
Is their a lot of Math involved In the actual CRNA grad school? What kind of classes are taken in Grad school?
digitalnicko1 1 year ago
@digitalnicko1 Physics, Chemistry, Biochemistry, Organic Chemistry, anatomy and physiology, pharmacology >all specific to anesthesia practice. You are expected to have completed undergrad courses in these areas. See the AANAdotCOM website for info on 'becoming a CRNA, and a list of accredited programs. Follow the links to the school websites for course curriculum.'
medicvideo 1 year ago
@medicvideo Thank you for the reply. I see you said Physics is it to be take before entry to the program or does one take it while in the program?
digitalnicko1 1 year ago
@digitalnicko1 You need plan no further than completing the undergraduate science requirements of the BSN program. These are the entry level sciences needed for a CRNA program. No physics is required until the graduate program in anesthesia. The list I gave are part of the curriculum in the master's anesthesia program. You will not have to seek out the courses on your own.
medicvideo 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@medicvideo Thank you for the reply. I see you said Physics, is it to be take before entry to the program or does one take it while in the program?
digitalnicko1 1 year ago
Anyone looking for grendel130's comments, alas i finally had to block him and delete them all. Abject stupidity is tolerable for a finite amount of time....and his was up.
medicvideo 1 year ago
@grendel130 You convinced me. Useless.
medicvideo 1 year ago
@grendel130
If you want to simply repeat more of the same uninformed, baseless and false dribble that is also up to you. But if you have nothing new or intelligent doing so will just convince me to delete all your comments to date.
medicvideo 1 year ago
@grendel130 More nonsense. Ask for an anesthesiologist as far in advance as you like at a hospital which does not use them...you will NEVER get one. Standard 'supervision' rate is 1:4. Why? Because that is the highest allowed ratio from Medicare if the anesthesiologist wants to bill for his 'services'. Otherwise the CRNA gets 100% of the fee. Still waiting for ANY data you can point to that shows CRNAs are less safe than anesthesiologists. I dare you.
medicvideo 1 year ago
@grendel130
I would point out that in many hospitals 'demanding' an anesthesiologist results in your surgery being canceled and your having to find another hospital and surgeon since only CRNAs deliver the anesthesia there and no anesthesiologist is on staff. In the vast remainder of facilities you may have a similar result since the anesthesiologist will not drop everything for you, covering 4 CRNA rooms instead. And he won't care if you want to leave since he knows CRNAs give excellent care.
medicvideo 1 year ago
@grendel130 Of course anyone who reviews the comments here will again note that you accuse me of saying something I did not and acting in a manner which I have not. You however have ignored my request for referencing data or research to support your opinions. CRNAs have no anxiety about 'being "me too providers". 150 years of providing anesthesia, and being the first providers to do so as a specialty seems to make that suggestion absurd.
medicvideo 1 year ago
remvssf223 and jerryjohnston2009, veritable fountains of misinformation, outright lies and ignorance no longer have working YouTube accounts. Draw your own conclusions.
medicvideo 1 year ago
I am a CRNA at a community hospital. It's simple you have good/bad MDAs and good/bad CRNAs. However, at my hospital I would choose any of my co-workers(CRNAS) to give me anesthesia rather than one of our Anesthesiologists. The Crnas I work with are just safer individuals.
al120hp 1 year ago
@al120hp
This is the case amongst the 0verhwhelming majority of CRNAs. Either 40,000 CRNAs, who know the reality of the practice of anesthesia are suffering from a mass delusion and have no concern for themselves for their family members...or as anesthesia professionals they know that CRNA practice is above reproach and the highest quality which does NOT depend on an MDA being within a hundred miles,
medicvideo 1 year ago
Comment removed
al120hp 1 year ago
@grendel130
Since I have made NO comment disparaging any anesthesiologist (true or otherwise...whatever that means), such comments can hardly have 'said it all'. Your unfounded, baseless, and biased statements regarding your views of CRNA practice are much more telling. Please cite some reference which we can all navigate to supporting your position.
medicvideo 1 year ago
Also, comapring 4 years of nursing school to 4 years of med school is idiotic. Additionally, nurses do not do residencies and all difficult cases are assigned to MD's. When surgeons get surgery they ALWAYS specify an anesthesiologist. CRNA's are o.k. in a supposring role, but I don't trust them to practice independently, and I don't care what the Board of Nursing says. I don;' want cut-rate anesthesia from a nurse.
grendel130 1 year ago
@grendel130
Difficult cases are not always assigned to MD's. When surgeons have surgery they do not always request anesthesiologists. While you are absolutely entitled to your opinions regarding CRNAs, the Board of Nursing, etc., don't be surprised when you are asked to back up your opinions with published data or sources more reliable than your personal beliefs.
medicvideo 1 year ago
this is what i wanna be
yoyoyo1418 1 year ago
Rigorous education, certification, and critcal care experience?
You mean, a nursing degree and a 28 month crash-course in anesthesia?
I don't think so.
DrSandmann 1 year ago
@DrSandmann TSK TSK, from your user name I assume you are an anesthesiologist or a resident. Your are very likely pissed off realizing that your prolonged education contains large quantities of information you will never use, and which does not prepare you to practice anesthesia. You graduate 100-200k in the hole. The CRNA has been making 150k/yr after their 7 years of education and you were dumb enough to go the physician route for another 5 years. Don't blame CRNAs for your poor life planning.
medicvideo 1 year ago
A nurse Anesthesist does exactly the same job as an Anesthesiologist MD. Many of them work in rural areas because the MD doesnt want to work there for the lower salary. CRNA are well trained, I would love to see your ass demand an MD when your Hopital doesnt provide one. You can and will get one for about 2-3K more on your bill.
MrSmiles4miles 1 year ago
some people would just have to resort to a lie to make a stand... poor self confidence
pjRN25 1 year ago
Is this a boring job? I mean are you sitting hour after hour looking at vitals on monitors while surgeons work on the patient? Is there a doctor of anesthesiology normally nearby? What kind of malpractice insurance is required? They publish salaries from $110K to $300K. Do you have to buy your own insurance?
spunright 1 year ago
@grendel130 hilarious. Id rival any MD to my Anesthesia.
aburd33 1 year ago
LEDDHED What you meant to say "It seems just like going to stewardess school FIRST to KNOW ABOUT PASSENGERS AND THAN FLIGHT SCHOOL TO learn how to fly a plane"
asr5791 1 year ago
Call me Beowulf. Im a 22 year old RN in a CRNA program. I think that CRNA's are just as safe, if not safer than MD's.. first off they follow a much tighter protocol regimen for Anesthesia, not only because we HAVE TO, but statistics prove that its much safer to rely on tried and true methods. Secondly, our heads aren't as big, and in-case you didn't pick up on the metaphor, I meant ego.
iheartgirls123 1 year ago
I hate when do it for money, it should be for the love of it. However money is a nice extra.
HoneiiDiiva 1 year ago 2
get your BSN RN first and see how you like working in the acute care setting for 1-2 years. If you can handle/master the mental aspect of the job, then you'll be ready to take classes for CRNA. Ofcourse, easier said than done. you'd have to be able to handle stress very well. be happy =D
Jmontastic 2 years ago
why is it so hard to find appropriate and good information regarding nurse anaesthesia education requirements/experience? i've been going about this for months and i still get confused... this is rediculous...
MissDJ 2 years ago
Every program has slightly different requirements.
Graduate education is more diverse.
I would recommend getting a BS in nursing or other science related degree.
Doing your masters keeping in mind that you want a certificate/specialty for anesthesia
NOTE: if your an LPN, Paramedic or have an associates in nursing
Excelsior college has great "bridge programs" allowing you to obtain a masters
they have an RN-MSN which i will probably be enrolling in
Paramedic851 2 years ago
@MissDJ Have you ever looked into a school by you to see what's their requirements? This is usually a good start. Keep seeking you shall find. Good luck :)
AngelOne11 2 years ago
Try AANA(dot)com
NoExpert76 2 years ago
Adding on to what Paramedic851 said, I've seen some programs that allow someone into a MSN program to become a CRNA if they already have a Bachelor's degree in something other than nursing.
donutmaster 2 years ago
@MissDJ
See the link in the description for current requirements.
medicvideo 1 year ago
jdog-the surgeons whom I work with disagree with you (respectfully),,,,,,
laurentrilli 2 years ago
Yeh, well, that's surgeons for ya'
archer45rw 2 years ago
To correct some opinions, A surgeon cannot tell a nurse anesthetist what medications to give, they can merely say they want or do not want there patient paralyzed for this case and so forth, the CRNA controls how this is done
jdog19s 2 years ago
when was this video made?
slamnxgirlxjulie 2 years ago
1973
wyo7011 2 years ago
@slamnxgirlxjulie
Within the last 5 years...2007 I think
medicvideo 1 year ago
so first i need to geta bachelors degree..is that like 4 years of regular classes then 2 years of nursing program?
slamnxgirlxjulie 2 years ago
You can get a 2 year Assoc. Degree in Nursing (ADN) and then a completion degree which is uaually 1 more year (3 years total), but some completion programs require x many years RN experience. You can also just do the BSN (4 years) straight through. After that, a CRNA program is usually between 27-36 months in which you earn a Masters degree.
wyo7011 2 years ago
Comment removed
slamnxgirlxjulie 2 years ago
so after getting a BSN then i work for 2 years in the hospital then go back to school for my masters for the program?
slamnxgirlxjulie 2 years ago
Most CRNA programs I've researched require a minimum 1 year of "critical care experience" as an RN. I am not sure its that has to be a licensed RN or a BSN. Anyone know?
wyo7011 2 years ago
I don't think it matters as long as you have extensive experience in critical care.
JaTT510z 2 years ago
That is once you are a licensed RN. Then you can apply to the CRNA master's program.
gtbangin23 2 years ago
lehalirio-thanks for your reply....I'm not a CRNA, just an airline pilot with recently diagnosed cancer and who needs surgery and wants the "best" anesthesia..in many satates, the CRNA does BUT "have" to work under the MD, but many do............this CCRNA "supervision" by MD is obviously a political topic...........I was just looking for safety in a very bad situation....
remvssf223 2 years ago
sorry-the above should read "the CRNA does NOT" not BUt sorry
remvssf223 2 years ago
@remvssf223 sounds to me like you've got bigger problems than who does your anesthesia
tafferon 1 year ago
@remvssf223
Get your lies straight. Either you are an airline pilot by trade with cancer frightened of CRNAs or someone who has worked with CRNAs for 25 years and find they provide excellent care.
You are not both. Care to explain?
medicvideo 1 year ago
This is so exciting. I am a college sophomore considering going into nurse anesthesia, and would love to become a CRNA and work with MSF for awhile.
Man...I can't wait!!! XD
SmithGurl1208 2 years ago
Comment removed
remvssf223 2 years ago
The local university medical center has 2 surgery centers, one uses CRNA's and the other uses only anesthesiologists. The chief of anesthesia told me that she would request an anesthesiologist to do her own anesthesia rather than a nurse.
remvssf223 2 years ago
there's no difference in anesthesia administration whether it would be done by an anesthesiologist or CRNA for as long as they know what they are doing and they are trained well.. don't underestimate the CRNAs as they also have received rigorous and proper training as anesthesiologist did.. the problem with some people is that they tend to revere and trust MDs more over the likes of CRNAs and nurses... have you had any idea that its the nurse who stays with the patients most of the time?
lhandlhot 2 years ago
sounds reasonable; when Iasked this question to the chief of anesthesia, the told me that if CRNA's were as good as anesthesiologists, then why go to med school? She said that properly supervised, they are o.k. solo not safe in her opinion. Now I'm confused and nervous......not willing to get the surgery..
remvssf223 2 years ago
Get a properly trained CRNA with lots of experience. CRNA's have been trained since nursing school and reinforced in the ICU experience they recieve to deal with ANY situation effectively, rapidly and appropriately. I doubt many MDA's have even seen a Code Blue/respiratory arrest prior to medical school. Difference: CRNAs are specifically trained to b on high alert and deal with situations that are critical and to avoid an even more crit sit.CRNAs require intense critical thinking skills.
Kristinaking11 2 years ago
Of course an ignorant aneshesiologist would say that. Maybe you can refer him/her to the You Tube video provided by the AANA "Nurse Anesthetist." It is the one shown above. This would clarify discrepencies in training thought to be less in a CRNA than an MDA.
Kristinaking11 2 years ago
People are uneducated. My work experience in an ICU has shown this greatly. RN's are the bulk of the care in hospitals and elsewhere. The public has no idea what goes on behind the scenes and have been brainwashed by the media and politics regarding our roles.
All in all, I start CRNA school and won't be hesitant to take on any arrogant MDA regarding knowledge, competence, and skills. The problem is people's lack of research and knowledge regarding CRNA's practice and history.
EugeniusP 1 year ago
what is acute care? Is it like in a hospital or what?
i3loodhunte31181 2 years ago
Intensive care unit....not the emergency room
LadyT1096 2 years ago
When someone is explaining "ACUTE care" it is basically a hospital setting. For CRNAs it involves working in a hospital setting in an Intensive Care unit for 1-5 years prior to applying to an Anesthesia school. Min req. usually 3years. Have to be a BSN with ICU exp. So you are looking at an avg of (incl Nursing school) 7 years experience prior to formal Anesthesia education and training. A lot of didactic and theory as well as an abundance of hands on training. Excellent basis to start with!
Kristinaking11 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
CRNA's are a very sad commentay on the state of affairs on medical practice-I need surgery, but don't want a nurse doing my anesthesia-I'll risk colon cancer before I trust a nurse (CRNA) to do my GA..it's not safe to have less than an anesthesiologist (MD)
garysconstipated 2 years ago
What a hopelessly uneducable dildo head you are.
bigfig1900 2 years ago
Ok.. I agree with you. But please, when your surgical wound starts to hurt or you need to go to bathroom, don't call any nurse. Be alone, with your tears. Probably, your anesthesiologist [someone, in your opinion, better than a CRNA] will not stay at your bedside.
lehilario 2 years ago
lehilario-so let me understand your comments: In your opinion the post-op role of the CRNA is to hand out pain meds, bedpans and kleenex?
remvssf223 2 years ago
Remvssf223: No! I did not say it. But I would like to say that CRNA are nurses before the specialization. And the look about care is very different of one anesthesiologist. Nurses make the difference!
lehilario 2 years ago
lehilario: I was just kidding.....I worked with CRNA's for 25 years and was involved in their recertification; the CRNA program is a difficult one..It's a shame that some CRNA's insist on comparing themselves to MDA's..none of the CRNA's that I have known consider themselves "equal" to a MDA, but working under the supervision of an anesthesiologist, a CRNA can provide excellent care. Just my opinion, I did not intend to offend you.
remvssf223 2 years ago
@remvssf223 remvssf223: I know about some nurses who thinking and comparing themselves to MD, MDA too. As you told, it is a shame. You did not offend me. Sorry if I showed it. So, I do not know if you know, but I am from Brazil and here we do not have CRNA and I have one question. I have been researched a lot about this topic and great universities from US says that a CRNA does not work under the supervision of an anesthesiologist. Can you explain me it?
lehilario 2 years ago 2
@garysconstipated
Pretty stupid...but hey, dying of cancer because you are irrational is your right.
medicvideo 1 year ago
@garysconstipated First off, I hope everything goes well with the surgery. However, I think your argument is fouled. A LOT of people assume that because a person has 'MD' after his/her name, it makes the individual a master in the art and science of medicine. While that may be true for many, it is not that way for all. MDs vary significantly in ability, knowledge, and experience, as well as CRNAs. A CRNA with thousands of cases under his/her belt is 'safer', in my opnion, than an MD with 100
dockcr 1 year ago
@dockcr Anesthesiologists are most useful for specialized cases. These include high-risk surgeries, cardio-thoracic surgery, and pain management. These cases require knowledge of more difficult concepts that are learned during the 8 years of medical school, residency, and fellowship.
CambridgeHeights 1 year ago
@CambridgeHeights Please cite these "more difficult concepts" with some detail. With the practice of anesthesia admired for its safety and low rate of complications and mortality by all other medical and nursing specialties, along with a 100+ year record of CRNA practice, the MD vs CRNA argument is tired, illogical, unsupported, childish, merit-less and contrary to the interest of patients. Playing on patient's fears for political reasons is irresponsible. 'It sounds good' is not science.
medicvideo 1 year ago
@medicvideo CRNA's have low M&M because they take easier cases. You will not see a CRNA take a heart surgery case.
CambridgeHeights 1 year ago
@CambridgeHeights Patently false. I am a CRNA and i have done thousands....yes THOUSANDS of 'heart surgery' cases. Started with the hundreds I did in anesthesia school (so many because my program did not compete with an anesthesia residency program for procedures so i did 2 per day for months...when I wasn't doing abdominal or thoracic aortas, pneumonectomies [partial or total lung removals], kidney or liver transplants, cerebral aneurysms, mult trauma, pediatric hearts, transplants, etc. etc.
medicvideo 1 year ago
@medicvideo ......Tell me what I should begin studying now so that when I get to Anesthetists school I'll already be prepared. I'm still going for my RN license, but I like to think ahead.
chrissline77 1 year ago
@chrissline77 There really is nothing special you need to be doing right now except maintaining AT LEAST a 3.0 grade average.
medicvideo 1 year ago
@CambridgeHeights go to my.clevelandclinicDOTorg/anesthesia/nurses.aspx and scroll down the page taking note of the role CRNAs play in cardiothoracic anesthesia at the nation's #1 cardiac surgery hospital. Don't miss Carol Ratcliff CRNA, Chief anesthetist dept of cardiothoracic anesthesia.....for pete's sake.
medicvideo 1 year ago
@medicvideo So then are anesthesiologists just massively over educated? Anesthesia school is only 3 years. Anesthiologist residency is 4 years and they work 80 hours per week and many do fellowships that last an additional year or 2. Are you saying that that much schooling is a waste and they should should just get a nursing degree and then 3 years of anesthesia school?
CambridgeHeights 1 year ago
@CambridgeHeights I won't touch that with a 10 foot pole. No way I am giving career advice, or offering a useless opinion on anesthesiologist training. The question here is: Do CRNAs provide quality anesthesia, even for complex and high risk surgical procedures? The answer is yes. Precisely what amount of training, and in what profession, allows for desired quality of care seems to have been determined by the health care system, insurance entities, courts and patients.
medicvideo 1 year ago
@medicvideo So basically you are saying the anesthesiologists are overqualified. They wasted all those years training and could have just went to anesthesiology school . That's what you are saying even if you won't directly say it.
CambridgeHeights 1 year ago
@CambridgeHeights Sorry, but you don't get to put words in my mouth. However you can scroll back to a comment I made on here three months ago to "DrSandman" for a sufficient answer.
medicvideo 1 year ago
@medicvideo Do you have any data showing that MD's and CRNA's have the same mortality and morbidity all other things being equal? I just find it hard to believe that that would be the case given the more rigorous selection process and training that anesthesiologists go through.
CambridgeHeights 1 year ago
@CambridgeHeights Yes. A number of studies have been done. The most recent can be found here: tinyurlDOTcom/3xka3x2
medicvideo 1 year ago
@CambridgeHeights ......What is M&M?
chrissline77 1 year ago
@chrissline77 morbidity & mortality
CambridgeHeights 1 year ago
@CambridgeHeights .........Thank you.
chrissline77 1 year ago
Interesting video; the distinction to anesthesia being provided by nurses vs physicians seems odd to me; we don't have the CRNA profession in the UK as far as I know. My educational background included med school, but my career is in research and I'm not familiar with practice in the US. A question if I may? Are MD's in such short supply that you use nurses to administer anesthesia? This discussion has made me qute curious; admittedly I know little about your system in the US. Thanks.
colliderproject 2 years ago
colliderproject: Search the web fr the Internationale Association of Nurse Anesthetists. Nurse anesthetists provide quality anesthesia all over the world.
medicvideo 2 years ago
PJ-you are taking my comments way too seriously, my last comment was obviously meant as a joke..........I just had a simple procedure with a CRNA; she doesn't think that she is interchangeable with an anesthesiologist...and unlike you, she doesn't take this as an insult. She's a nurse, a highly trained one, but she's not a physician.
jerryjohnston2009 2 years ago
well it didnt came from me. what i stated was taken from the 1999 survey. my arguments are based on what ive researched geox2f and not just based on unfounded statements like what your are making. and youre saying that the anesthetist wants to get even with you? what are you a child? who gets even with someone who took away his lollipop? get a grip man. i guess you need to put more maturity in your brain to make better arguments -- END OF STATEMENT--
pjRN25 2 years ago
And PJ-don't think that I believe that CRNA's have no place in the OR, I don't. Even though I had a disasterous experience with one,I'm having minor surgery (ulnar nerve trans) done friday and a CRNA whom I work with is doing the Bier Block, unsupervised. This is because the MDA doen't do too many and she does and he won't do the case without propofol and fentanyl and she will do it with just lido and 1gm ancef. Maybe she read my comments and is going to get even with me........
goex2f 2 years ago
Pj-if there were no difference between CRNA's and MDA's, we would not have 2 classes of anesthesia providers: nurses (CRNA's) and MDA's (physician's). I asked several CRNA's whom I work with if they agreed with: no difference in the quality of care provided by CRNAs and their physician counterparts" ...after getting the "we are safe too mantra" not one CRNA thought that she was equivilent to an MDA as an anesthesia provider.
goex2f 2 years ago
According to a 1999 report from the Institute of Medicine, anesthesia care is nearly 50 times safer than it was in the early 1980s. Numerous outcomes studies have demonstrated that there is no difference in the quality of care provided by CRNAs and their physician counterparts"
pjRN25 2 years ago
a proven fact? where's your facts and statistics?
pjRN25 2 years ago
crna have as much responsibility as anesthesiologists, it's not an easy job, you are held liable for everything you do. some people think that a crna can just do whatever he wants, if you kill the patient they will take away your license and put you in jail
phillipngyn 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
It's a proven fact that CRNA's have a MUCH higher rate of anesthesia-related complications compared to MDA's. No amount of cheerleading is going to change the fact that anesthesia is the domain of a physician; nurses can assist, but should not be providing anesthesia services solo. It's not safe; if the average patient knew that his anesthesia proider was a nurse; he/she would demand an anesthesiologist.
jerryjohnston2009 2 years ago
More half-baked bullshit. Where is your evidence?
bigfig1900 2 years ago
Did they report how many cases were sat by MDA vs CRNA? Are they comparable cases...a level 1 trauma is not the same as a carpal tunnel release. Are the types of anesthetics defined as related to the reported bad outcomes, general vs regional. I was just curious.
LadyT1096 2 years ago
jerryjohnston2009: What you have posted is absolutely false (and i imagine you know that already). A poor self image is a likely explanation.
medicvideo 2 years ago
@jerryjohnston2009 haha. did u take statistics as part of your med school. hmmm 80% of anesthestics in the US are given by CRNA's. so why are the anesthesia-related complications rates higher? Dont bend the stats because u are demoted to doing preop interviews and pencil pushing rather than passing gas.
aburd33 1 year ago
@jerryjohnston2009 As with the rest of your posts here, you again state utter falsehoods. Multiple studies have proven no difference in patient outcome whether a CRNA or MD does the anesthesia. CRNAs have been practicing for 150 years. Methinks people would have caught on by now if CRNAs were anything less than safe, quality practitioners. You have no clue about anything you have spoken about. Yet you present your statements as proven facts, the mark or an insecure fool.
medicvideo 1 year ago
@jerryjohnston2009
We are STILL waiting to provide the evidence of your "proven fact". Since none exists, and you refuse to do so, owe now all know you lie as it suits you.
medicvideo 1 year ago