Well, you got some odd videos, but you are fairly interesting. I can't watch even a significant sample of your presentations but I did watch this one.
I agree.
Let's not forget PopMech was writng scathing stuff on the Wrightbros, many years after they had been flying successfully.
@proudfootz Exactly, and ctcole77 isn't the only one, it seems that there are multiple goons, each with several accounts just crawling under most- if not all 9/11 videos spreading dis-info and lies. I'll be viewing one 9/11 video and see one shill defending the official story then when i watch a different 9/11 video, it'd be the same shill spreading his arguments under that video.. i think that these are paid shills because its like you said why would people go to such lengths...
"THE calm unyielding (yet racially and religiously inclusive) leadership of Rudolph Giuliani on September 11th 2001 transformed the mayor of New York into a national hero, dubbed America's mayor by Oprah Winfrey."
Jared Loughner: rightwing fanatic - didn't 'cash in' on 9/11 like Halliburton or anything. Fail.
James von Brunn: another mentally deranged follower of rightwing ideology. Never wrote any articles about 9/11. Sorry another fail.
Luke Rudkowski - even if it were true $20K is nothing compared to the Pentagons trillions stolen from the taxpayers. Practically nothing there. Another fail.
Richard Gage: So he has a well-paying job. Jealous much?
Not a liar. You fail again. Loughner had nothing to do with 9/11 skepticism. He's a hero of the NRA.
von Brunn has nothing to do with 9/11 skepticism either.
If it is true Luke stole any money, it pales in comparison to the trillions stolen from taxpayers by the biggest winners from 9/11 terror attacks - the US military/industrial/intelligence complex. And if true isn't even relevent to 9/11 skepticism. Another fail for you.
Loughner was a rabid leftist conspircay theorist. Hero of the NRA? Now that's a complete and utter LIE. Give me one source to support that LIE. Your true colors are showing and they are ideological hatred.
MIC! ROFL! Go watch JFK again!
Chomsky defends free speech. You just hate him because you seem to think he should also be a 911 twoofer.
QUESTION: Why hasn't there been one single piece of information on 911 from wikileaks?
You still can't admit the government's story about 9/11 is a conspiracy theory. So Loughner is like evryone else in that regard. Otherwise totally irrelevant to 9/11. You're trying to make a strawman argument. You're still a failure.
Chomskey's beliefs are irrelevant. Again a failure for you.
I can DEBUNK your entire movement with just one question:
Since the govt. committed 9/11, why arent truthers demanding the release of Khalid Sheikh Mohammed who is on trial for his life for a crime truthers claim he did not commit?
Before you open your piehole, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed ADMITTED TO PLANNING 911!
KSM was tortured for years. You know those 'witches' from the Middle Ages were tortured, too. Believe they flew around on broomsticks? Your 'debunking' is debunked. Another fail on your scorecard.
There's no sane reason to think WikiLeaks has all the information in the world at its disposal. Oops - looks like you failed again.
So far you've been unable to put up any argument that holds up to scrutiny.
Ok, fine. KSM was tortured. That means his confession was false and he is a patsey. Back to the oringinal question that you refused to answer.
Since the govt. committed 9/11, why arent truthers demanding the release of Khalid Sheikh Mohammed who is on trial for his life for a crime truthers claim he did not commit?
KSM is the elephant in the room with 911 truth. You can't explain him so you simply omit him from your "narative".
KSM's 'confession' is unreliable. Torture your Grandma for 5 years and she'll be 'admitting' she blew up the Hindenberg. Your reliance on KSM shows the weakness of your arguments.
The elephant in the room is that would-be debunkers keep relying on rhetorical questions instead of addressing the facts of the case.
Lots of people hate skeptics of the absurd stories put out by the government. Means nothing. Just another red-herring put out by 'debunkers' who have failed to debunk anything.
"Giuliani failed to show up for a pair of two-day sessions [for the Iraq Study Group] that occurred during his tenure, the sources said and both times, they conflicted with paid public appearances shown on his recent financial disclosure. Giuliani quit the group during his busiest stretch in 2006, when he gave 20 speeches in a single month that brought in $1.7 million."
Giuliani demands $100,000 for a speech - not including expenses.
Now I've seen everything from this sham organization. AE911Truth? ROFL! Did you know they are now soliciting people to buy them lunch! Buy the A/E's Lunch and feed them the 9/11 Truth!
If people are interested in finding out the facts relevent to 9/11, there's nothing wrong with them paying the expenses involved in bringing speakers around.
All the OCTs have been cashing in on 9/11 (and making a *lot* more than any skeptics have) - no reason for anyone to cling to a double-standard.
Did he actually say that it's bad to make money off of 9-11, or did he just say "they're doing it to make money" as an explanation as to why someone might lie to support a 9-11 conspiracy theory?
Since it is now a historical fact that investigating bodies were deceived by the US government concerning 9/11, it is clear that the media bandwagon flogging this false story was a grave disservice to this nation and the world.
But you'll never even get so much as an apology from them.
What are your thoughts about the AMazing Athesist's video "How we were bought? Where he talks about 9/11 truthers and how america has been taken over by corporatism.
Much of what happens does happen out in the open, with massive doses of propaganda to help folks accept what is being done to them.
That's why an 'inside job' doesn't require much by way of an especially constituted conspiracy - the machinery is already in place and has been running for many years.
The commissioners have verified that the official story is based on false and perjured information from the government - exactly what we knew all along.
What will not happen is that any OCTs will be upset that they were hoodwinked - they are too psychologically committed to their dogmas.
LOL so it fails because creationists are wrong, and you're not? Asinine.
Your inability to grasp the analogy does not invalidate it. You ARE just like a narrow-minded creationist, unable to view anything form a perspective other than your own.
When you can't grasp why someone would disagree, conclude that they actually don't. Right out of the creationist zealot's handbook.
Where creationists, when faced with the problem of unbelief, will conclude that there are no atheists--you will simply conclude there are no non-truthers.
I have to add, I do agree that tooltime's psychoanalysis missed the mark by a mile. It really is this kind of attitude displayed by truthers that exposes their position for what it really is: little more than crazy talk from crazy people. To his credit, however, tooltime is far more polite and patient than I. The principal of charity can only go so far, y'know?
What are you babbling about? We've been off target since you decided to dodge a question instead of giving a simple, honest answer. Since you were unwilling, I had to answer it for you. Pay attention, pls.
Let me tell you what's REAL funny. This rejection of the 9/11 commission report you're all hard about, doesn't even support your position. Government NEGLIGENCE, not involvement, related to 9/11 is what was brought to light. And let's face it, that was no fucking secret!
So, again, you're just cherry-picking facts that are convenient for your position, and ignoring facts inconvenient for it.
You posed your 'simple question' as a red herring to avoid the topic where your claim about the thoroughness of the 9/11 investigations was shown to be bogus.
The fact is we were thoroughly lied to - truthers saw through the charade, but the 'debunkers' fell for it hook, line and sinker.
That's your real problem with me - I am paying attention.
"How is it that I'm 'ignoring facts' when you haven't brought any into the discussion?"
You brought up this issue because people were coming out against government dishonesty. You neglected to add that they were NOT coming out in favor of your hypothesis in any way shape or form.
"You posed your 'simple question' as a red herring to avoid the topic..."
Again YOU are the one who brought up the 9/11 commission.
You are not paying attention. You're tripping over your own bs.
You are, again, just like a creationist, accepting facts convenient to your position and ignoring facts that are inconvenient. You jump through whatever mental hoops you have to to convince yourself that the conclusions of the very people you cite is irrelevant to the issue.
Do you actually think you just made a point? You predict that people will disagree with you, then use the realization this blatantly obvious possibility to reinforce your point.
Come on, you wouldn't let a creationist get away with that kind of disingenuous bullshit.
With every word you reveal to us the state of mind you share with these insane zealots. Keep it coming.
NO ONE is doubting that the government lied to cover their own ass. Truthers are contending the government planed and executed 9/11. The facts simply DO NOT support this hypothesis.
All you do is point to disparate and by no means necessarily related factoids and build your bullshit theories out of this disjointed mess.
What you people call truth, debunkes rightly call bullshit. So indeed you are correct, we do not give a shit about your bullshit.
Yes, the truthers have always maintained that "the government lied to cover their own ass."
I seem to recall having a lot of go-rounds with 'debunkers' who swallowed the government theory hook, line and sinker. So your contention that "NO ONE" believed the government's word is a steaming crock of shit.
Now that is has been shown that the truthers were right all along - the government did indeed lie - there is no credibility in their theory is there?
Your 'theory' that the massive conspiracy to mislead investigations into 9/11was only to cover up 'negligence' is duly noted.
However, if that is their new story we should remember that they are known liars.
Remember that during the Bush Administration the surest way to promotion and maybe even a medal was to shown to be negligent or incompetent - no reason to cover that up.
It's not my theory, dude. It's the theory of John Farmer, the man who wrote "The Ground Truth." Why you are unaware of this is simply baffling, as the reason we both know the government lied, and what about, is due in no small part to this man and this book.
Yes, we need to remember they lied. However, it is a wild leap in logic to then conclude these people blew up the towers.
its also a wild leap in logic to believe they fell the way they did because of planes hitting them. several major news outlets pointed this out as it was happening.
neither theory is very appealing. but there is enough damning evidence against the government even if you rule out the controlled demolition theory completely. nor does the 'government did it' theory rely on controlled demolition to be true.
That the government agencies allowed the attacks to proceed, destroyed evidence immediately after 9/11, stonewalled investigation, then conspired to lie to investigators is suggestive of more than embarrassment over alleged failures.
After all, the incompetents usually got promoted and even decorated with medals - only the whistler-blowers were punished.
Some FBI and other officials lied about intelligence related to 9/11 known /before/ it happened; presumably to hide their own negligence. In short, at least a few people were aware of a real possibility of an attack being planned against the WTC by Al Qaeda. That's taking the best light possible; there are far more critical assessments.
The links between US intelligence and alleged mastermind Bin Laden and the alleged hijackers were obscured by perjured testimony from government agents.
There was also a cover-up concerning many aspects of the bizarre behavior of our air defenses which ensured the success of the attacks.
You're avoiding the point - if making money off of 9/11 is a motive to deceive, then the OCT crowd has obviously much greater motivation: billions of dollars.
Alex Jones AFAIK had his program well before 9/11 (it seems he even predicted it), and Griffin was an accomplished scholar and author beforehand.
So it seems your 'point' is rather blunted by the facts. Again.
Giuliani became 'America's Mayor' because he happened to be there when 9/11 happened - he became a Presidential candidate on those credentials and was in demand because of his 'insightrs' into 9/11.
If people are interested in what Richard Gage has to say, why shouldn't he tell them? Is it censorship you are after?
Well, you got some odd videos, but you are fairly interesting. I can't watch even a significant sample of your presentations but I did watch this one.
I agree.
Let's not forget PopMech was writng scathing stuff on the Wrightbros, many years after they had been flying successfully.
THose Bastards.!
alaric63 4 months ago
@alaric63
Interesting PM 'debunked' powered flight.
I guess they got a historic mission to get on the wrong side of history...
proudfootz 4 months ago
ctcole77 is such a paid government goon, she trolls all over 9/11 videos spreading dis-info just like the other shills.
9/11 Was An Inside Job. Spread the truth.
ZionistsRunTheGov 7 months ago
@ZionistsRunTheGov
It would seem so.
Why else would anyone go to such lengths to provide cover for such an absurd propaganda exercise?
proudfootz 7 months ago
@proudfootz Exactly, and ctcole77 isn't the only one, it seems that there are multiple goons, each with several accounts just crawling under most- if not all 9/11 videos spreading dis-info and lies. I'll be viewing one 9/11 video and see one shill defending the official story then when i watch a different 9/11 video, it'd be the same shill spreading his arguments under that video.. i think that these are paid shills because its like you said why would people go to such lengths...
Peace.
ZionistsRunTheGov 7 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
That's not what I asked. And I never claimed to be an expert in high rise steel construction. My work is geotechnical and structural.
Please answer the questions.
When did you get your degree in engineering?
Where? What field? What have you done with it in the past "20 years"?
ctcole77 1 year ago
believing in 911 conspiracies doesnt make you skeptical, it makes you fucking stupid.
Tripo1iSamson 1 year ago
@Tripo1iSamson
Since the official story *is* a conspiracy theory, then virtually everyone is 'stupid' according to your 'logic'.
Just because your beliefs make *you* stupid doesn't mean that applies to everyone else - you're just projecting.
proudfootz 1 year ago
@proudfootz Oh gee genius, from a renowned bald pedophile conspiracy theorist.
Tripo1iSamson 1 year ago
@Tripo1iSamson
It doesn't take a genius to see you've got nothing.
But compared to you I suppose everyone is a genius...
proudfootz 1 year ago
OH NO, ANTI CONSPIRACY SITES NEED ADS!!!!!!!!!!
Tripo1iSamson 1 year ago
Rudolph Giuliani
From The Economist Jul 28th 2005
"THE calm unyielding (yet racially and religiously inclusive) leadership of Rudolph Giuliani on September 11th 2001 transformed the mayor of New York into a national hero, dubbed America's mayor by Oprah Winfrey."
proudfootz 2 years ago
proudfootz deleted a lot of comments. I wonder what TRUTH, he doesn't want people to see?
I know one of them is my simple physics equation.
taledarkside 2 years ago
@taledarkside
I haven't deleted any comments lately.
Maybe there's a problem on your end...
proudfootz 2 years ago
@proudfootz
I don't see any of Truther's comments
taledarkside 2 years ago
@taledarkside
Nor do I.
Did she post some?
I thought she was haunting a different video?
proudfootz 2 years ago
@proudfootz
Oops my bad, all your videos look a like
taledarkside 2 years ago
TOP 5 MOST FAMOUS 911 TWOOFERS
Jared Lee Loughner - Murdered 6 people in Tucson
James von Brunn - Murdered a security guard at the Holocaust Museum
Luke Rudkowski – Stole 20,000 dollars from WeAreChange to pay his college tuition
Richard Gage - 75,000 dollar salary + expenses from A&EFor911LIES
David Ray Griffin – 50 dollars per ticket, 500 per conference, 20 conferences = 500,000 dollars per year
ctcole77 1 year ago
Jared Loughner: rightwing fanatic - didn't 'cash in' on 9/11 like Halliburton or anything. Fail.
James von Brunn: another mentally deranged follower of rightwing ideology. Never wrote any articles about 9/11. Sorry another fail.
Luke Rudkowski - even if it were true $20K is nothing compared to the Pentagons trillions stolen from the taxpayers. Practically nothing there. Another fail.
Richard Gage: So he has a well-paying job. Jealous much?
David Griffin: even if true, so what? Fail.
proudfootz 1 year ago
@proudfootz
Jared hated blue dog Democrats. Nice try LIAR. Do some research.
vonn Brun was right wing but also a 911 twoofer.
Luke stole more than that. Wait and see. Please provide EVIDENCE of this pentagon stolen money.
So according to you, two wrongs make a right?
+ EXPENSES, I'm quite sure that Richard Gage flew coach on his New Zealand trip.
Just like Noam Chomsky says, 911 Truth is all about the money.
911 TRUTH = STRAWMAN
ctcole77 1 year ago
@ctcole77
Not a liar. You fail again. Loughner had nothing to do with 9/11 skepticism. He's a hero of the NRA.
von Brunn has nothing to do with 9/11 skepticism either.
If it is true Luke stole any money, it pales in comparison to the trillions stolen from taxpayers by the biggest winners from 9/11 terror attacks - the US military/industrial/intelligence complex. And if true isn't even relevent to 9/11 skepticism. Another fail for you.
Noam Chomskey defends Holocaust denial, too.
proudfootz 1 year ago
@proudfootz
Loughner was a rabid leftist conspircay theorist. Hero of the NRA? Now that's a complete and utter LIE. Give me one source to support that LIE. Your true colors are showing and they are ideological hatred.
MIC! ROFL! Go watch JFK again!
Chomsky defends free speech. You just hate him because you seem to think he should also be a 911 twoofer.
QUESTION: Why hasn't there been one single piece of information on 911 from wikileaks?
911 TRUTH = STRAWMAN
ctcole77 1 year ago
@ctcole77
You still can't admit the government's story about 9/11 is a conspiracy theory. So Loughner is like evryone else in that regard. Otherwise totally irrelevant to 9/11. You're trying to make a strawman argument. You're still a failure.
Chomskey's beliefs are irrelevant. Again a failure for you.
You're batting -1000 poster child for utter fail.
proudfootz 1 year ago
@proudfootz
Still waiting for you to comment on wikileaks.
I can DEBUNK your entire movement with just one question:
Since the govt. committed 9/11, why arent truthers demanding the release of Khalid Sheikh Mohammed who is on trial for his life for a crime truthers claim he did not commit?
Before you open your piehole, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed ADMITTED TO PLANNING 911!
911 TRUTH = 911 LIES
ctcole77 1 year ago
@ctcole77
KSM was tortured for years. You know those 'witches' from the Middle Ages were tortured, too. Believe they flew around on broomsticks? Your 'debunking' is debunked. Another fail on your scorecard.
There's no sane reason to think WikiLeaks has all the information in the world at its disposal. Oops - looks like you failed again.
So far you've been unable to put up any argument that holds up to scrutiny.
9/11 DEBUNKING = LIES
proudfootz 1 year ago
@proudfootz
Ok, fine. KSM was tortured. That means his confession was false and he is a patsey. Back to the oringinal question that you refused to answer.
Since the govt. committed 9/11, why arent truthers demanding the release of Khalid Sheikh Mohammed who is on trial for his life for a crime truthers claim he did not commit?
KSM is the elephant in the room with 911 truth. You can't explain him so you simply omit him from your "narative".
Julian Assange HATES 911 twoofers.
ctcole77 1 year ago
KSM's 'confession' is unreliable. Torture your Grandma for 5 years and she'll be 'admitting' she blew up the Hindenberg. Your reliance on KSM shows the weakness of your arguments.
The elephant in the room is that would-be debunkers keep relying on rhetorical questions instead of addressing the facts of the case.
Lots of people hate skeptics of the absurd stories put out by the government. Means nothing. Just another red-herring put out by 'debunkers' who have failed to debunk anything.
proudfootz 1 year ago
@proudfootz
Still waiting for an answer to the question.
"KSM's 'confession' is unreliable."
So as an "activist" you're perfectly fine by remaining completely silent as this man is tried for a crime you claim he didn't commit?
You're not a skeptic. Quite the opposite.
You follow the 911 twoof movement like a blind sheep. If you were a skeptic, YOU'D ANSWER THE QUESTION!
911 WAS AN OUTSIDE JOB!
ctcole77 1 year ago
@ctcole77
Your rhetorical questions mean nothing. You've failed.
But you haven't answered why you're not in Afghanmistan with Penn & Teller and all the other 'true believers' in Bush's wars.
But you don't really believe it was an 'outside job', do you?
Thought not.
proudfootz 1 year ago
@proudfootz
Where? What field? What have you done with it in the past "20 years"?
911 WAS AN OUTSIDE JOB!
ctcole77 1 year ago
@ctcole77
I've built as many highrise steel-framed buildings as you have, maybe more.
proudfootz 1 year ago
@proudfootz
When did you get your degree in engineering?
ctcole77 1 year ago
@ctcole77
About 20 years before you did.
proudfootz 1 year ago
Here's what 'terror expert' Giuliani was up to:
"Giuliani failed to show up for a pair of two-day sessions [for the Iraq Study Group] that occurred during his tenure, the sources said and both times, they conflicted with paid public appearances shown on his recent financial disclosure. Giuliani quit the group during his busiest stretch in 2006, when he gave 20 speeches in a single month that brought in $1.7 million."
Giuliani demands $100,000 for a speech - not including expenses.
proudfootz 2 years ago
Now I've seen everything from this sham organization. AE911Truth? ROFL! Did you know they are now soliciting people to buy them lunch! Buy the A/E's Lunch and feed them the 9/11 Truth!
Take an Architect or Engineer to Lunch! =$9
Take a few A/E's out to Lunch! = $50
Take a small A/E firm to Lunch! = $90
Take a medium A/E firm to Lunch! = $500
Take a large A/E firm to lunch! = $900
Take any size A/E firm to lunch! = mkt price
911 truth = free lunch
ctcole77 2 years ago
Free lunch for 911 truth?
Are you really going to defend that?
How many buildings has Gage designed while he was in New Zealand?
ctcole77 2 years ago
If people are interested in finding out the facts relevent to 9/11, there's nothing wrong with them paying the expenses involved in bringing speakers around.
All the OCTs have been cashing in on 9/11 (and making a *lot* more than any skeptics have) - no reason for anyone to cling to a double-standard.
proudfootz 2 years ago
Did he actually say that it's bad to make money off of 9-11, or did he just say "they're doing it to make money" as an explanation as to why someone might lie to support a 9-11 conspiracy theory?
Heathenfidel 2 years ago
heath -
He seemed to indicate there was something wrong with making money off of 9/11, presumably it gives one a motive to lie.
However, those touting the official government-approved conspiracy theory stood to gain a lot more money - thus more motivation for them to lie.
proudfootz 2 years ago
Since it is now a historical fact that investigating bodies were deceived by the US government concerning 9/11, it is clear that the media bandwagon flogging this false story was a grave disservice to this nation and the world.
But you'll never even get so much as an apology from them.
proudfootz 2 years ago
What are your thoughts about the AMazing Athesist's video "How we were bought? Where he talks about 9/11 truthers and how america has been taken over by corporatism.
biguy617 2 years ago
I'll have to check it out.
proudfootz 2 years ago
big guy -
I remember it now - it was ultimately on track.
Much of what happens does happen out in the open, with massive doses of propaganda to help folks accept what is being done to them.
That's why an 'inside job' doesn't require much by way of an especially constituted conspiracy - the machinery is already in place and has been running for many years.
proudfootz 2 years ago
if the tool wants to point the finger based who made the most money off it, it's game over for the debunkers.
xrongor 2 years ago
That's exactly right - no one can compete with the billions the military/industrial/intelligence complex are making off this deal.
If tool thinks the prospect of money is enough to lie for he's just cut his own throat.
proudfootz 2 years ago
People always look for ways to abuse a topic for a cheap dollar.
TheReasonWhyGuy 2 years ago
It's rather ironic that tooltime points the finger of accusation, but never considers the far greater amounts of money being made by everyone else.
I suspect tooltime is one of those who always 'blames the victim'.
proudfootz 2 years ago
Truthers make money off 9/11.
Debunkers make money off Truthers.
Get that straight.
Dashes000 2 years ago
dash -
I think I've got it straight.
It's the debunkers who are the hypocrites.
proudfootz 2 years ago
By your logic there is no difference between making money by perpetrating fraud, and making money by writing a book exposing said fraud.
That's patently absurd.
Dashes000 2 years ago 2
dash -
Yes, the 'truthers' are exposing the fraud perpetrated on the public from various sources.
Even the 9/11 Commissioners are coming out to testify they were lied to and deceived by government sources.
Game over.
proudfootz 2 years ago
Uh huh, and riddle me this: Are the commissioners coming out in support of the truther hypothesis?
Dashes000 2 years ago
dash -
New evidence is coming out all the time about how Americans were deliberately deceived about 9/11.
Of course the skeptics knew all along you guys were had.
proudfootz 2 years ago
Is that a no?
Dashes000 2 years ago
dash -
The commissioners have verified that the official story is based on false and perjured information from the government - exactly what we knew all along.
What will not happen is that any OCTs will be upset that they were hoodwinked - they are too psychologically committed to their dogmas.
proudfootz 2 years ago
In other words, no; the commissioners are not coming out in support of the truther hypothesis.
Such effort you put into dancing around those facts which are inconvenient to your position--you remind me of a creationist.
Dashes000 2 years ago
dash -
Well, I didn't miss my guess - the government deceived you about 9/11 and you're fine and dandy with it.
The 'truthers' told you so - but you're too committed now to let new facts spoil your record of wrong.
proudfootz 2 years ago
~Satan has deceived you about God's creation and you're fine and dandy with it.
~The 'saved' told you so - but you're too committed now to let facts spoil your record of wrong.
I take it back; you're EXACTLY like a creationist.
Dashes000 2 years ago
dash -
Unfortunately your analogy falls down because the truthers were right, you *were* lied to.
Meanwhile good and bad magical spirits do not exist.
proudfootz 2 years ago
LOL so it fails because creationists are wrong, and you're not? Asinine.
Your inability to grasp the analogy does not invalidate it. You ARE just like a narrow-minded creationist, unable to view anything form a perspective other than your own.
Dashes000 2 years ago
dash -
I understand the analogy just fine - it's just that you fail to notice there's a big difference between my point and your parody.
Nothing asinine about differentiating between reality and your fantasies.
But then again, you now know they lied to you and you seem to enjoy being their fool.
proudfootz 2 years ago
When you can't grasp why someone would disagree, conclude that they actually don't. Right out of the creationist zealot's handbook.
Where creationists, when faced with the problem of unbelief, will conclude that there are no atheists--you will simply conclude there are no non-truthers.
Typical fundie.
Dashes000 2 years ago
I have to add, I do agree that tooltime's psychoanalysis missed the mark by a mile. It really is this kind of attitude displayed by truthers that exposes their position for what it really is: little more than crazy talk from crazy people. To his credit, however, tooltime is far more polite and patient than I. The principal of charity can only go so far, y'know?
Dashes000 2 years ago
dash -
You're so far off target now it's really rather funny.
Your claims are without merit, so you try to cover your retreat with a hail of insults.
proudfootz 2 years ago
What are you babbling about? We've been off target since you decided to dodge a question instead of giving a simple, honest answer. Since you were unwilling, I had to answer it for you. Pay attention, pls.
As for insults, I calls 'em like I sees 'em.
Dashes000 2 years ago
Let me tell you what's REAL funny. This rejection of the 9/11 commission report you're all hard about, doesn't even support your position. Government NEGLIGENCE, not involvement, related to 9/11 is what was brought to light. And let's face it, that was no fucking secret!
So, again, you're just cherry-picking facts that are convenient for your position, and ignoring facts inconvenient for it.
Dashes000 2 years ago
dash -
How is it that I'm 'ignoring facts' when you haven't brought any into the discussion?
Oh yes, the alleged 'thoroughness' of the 9/11 investigations - guess that 'fact' turns out to be wrong.
Of course a report based on such perjured evidence isn't worth much - except apparently to folks like you.
proudfootz 2 years ago
dash -
You posed your 'simple question' as a red herring to avoid the topic where your claim about the thoroughness of the 9/11 investigations was shown to be bogus.
The fact is we were thoroughly lied to - truthers saw through the charade, but the 'debunkers' fell for it hook, line and sinker.
That's your real problem with me - I am paying attention.
proudfootz 2 years ago
"How is it that I'm 'ignoring facts' when you haven't brought any into the discussion?"
You brought up this issue because people were coming out against government dishonesty. You neglected to add that they were NOT coming out in favor of your hypothesis in any way shape or form.
"You posed your 'simple question' as a red herring to avoid the topic..."
Again YOU are the one who brought up the 9/11 commission.
You are not paying attention. You're tripping over your own bs.
Dashes000 2 years ago
You are, again, just like a creationist, accepting facts convenient to your position and ignoring facts that are inconvenient. You jump through whatever mental hoops you have to to convince yourself that the conclusions of the very people you cite is irrelevant to the issue.
Like I said, crazy talk from crazy people.
Dashes000 2 years ago
dash -
You *are* a good example of 'crazy talk from crazy people'.
proudfootz 2 years ago
You claim to know what my hypothesis is?
I have merely stated we have good reason to be skeptical of the tales fed to us by various government agencies about 9/11.
Turns out I was right.
I predicted that certain 'debunkers' wouldn't be bothered that they were misled by these liars, and I was right again.
Hence your efforts to change the topic.
proudfootz 2 years ago
Do you actually think you just made a point? You predict that people will disagree with you, then use the realization this blatantly obvious possibility to reinforce your point.
Come on, you wouldn't let a creationist get away with that kind of disingenuous bullshit.
With every word you reveal to us the state of mind you share with these insane zealots. Keep it coming.
Dashes000 2 years ago
dash -
Truthers suspected that governemt agencies were lying, and it turns out they were right.
I suspected 'debunkers' don't give a shit about the truth, and I was right again.
It's not about agreeing or disagreeing with me. Do *try* to pay attention.
Another fail on your part.
proudfootz 2 years ago
NO ONE is doubting that the government lied to cover their own ass. Truthers are contending the government planed and executed 9/11. The facts simply DO NOT support this hypothesis.
All you do is point to disparate and by no means necessarily related factoids and build your bullshit theories out of this disjointed mess.
What you people call truth, debunkes rightly call bullshit. So indeed you are correct, we do not give a shit about your bullshit.
Why should we? It's bullshit.
Dashes000 2 years ago
dash -
Yes, the truthers have always maintained that "the government lied to cover their own ass."
I seem to recall having a lot of go-rounds with 'debunkers' who swallowed the government theory hook, line and sinker. So your contention that "NO ONE" believed the government's word is a steaming crock of shit.
Now that is has been shown that the truthers were right all along - the government did indeed lie - there is no credibility in their theory is there?
Another fail by dashes000.
proudfootz 2 years ago
That's not what I said, rather: "NO ONE is doubting that the government lied to cover their own ass."
And no one is. As you said, this is a historical fact. Again, please pay attention.
"Now that is has been...no credibility in their theory is there?"
This does not follow. The government was shown to be lying to cover up negligence, not their theory about how the towers came down.
More disingenuous bullshit from proudfootz.
Dashes000 2 years ago
dash -
Your 'theory' that the massive conspiracy to mislead investigations into 9/11was only to cover up 'negligence' is duly noted.
However, if that is their new story we should remember that they are known liars.
Remember that during the Bush Administration the surest way to promotion and maybe even a medal was to shown to be negligent or incompetent - no reason to cover that up.
proudfootz 2 years ago
It's not my theory, dude. It's the theory of John Farmer, the man who wrote "The Ground Truth." Why you are unaware of this is simply baffling, as the reason we both know the government lied, and what about, is due in no small part to this man and this book.
Yes, we need to remember they lied. However, it is a wild leap in logic to then conclude these people blew up the towers.
Dashes000 2 years ago
its also a wild leap in logic to believe they fell the way they did because of planes hitting them. several major news outlets pointed this out as it was happening.
neither theory is very appealing. but there is enough damning evidence against the government even if you rule out the controlled demolition theory completely. nor does the 'government did it' theory rely on controlled demolition to be true.
xrongor 2 years ago
x -
That the government agencies allowed the attacks to proceed, destroyed evidence immediately after 9/11, stonewalled investigation, then conspired to lie to investigators is suggestive of more than embarrassment over alleged failures.
After all, the incompetents usually got promoted and even decorated with medals - only the whistler-blowers were punished.
proudfootz 2 years ago
What specifically did the government lie about?
Heathenfidel 2 years ago
Some FBI and other officials lied about intelligence related to 9/11 known /before/ it happened; presumably to hide their own negligence. In short, at least a few people were aware of a real possibility of an attack being planned against the WTC by Al Qaeda. That's taking the best light possible; there are far more critical assessments.
Dashes000 2 years ago
heath -
The links between US intelligence and alleged mastermind Bin Laden and the alleged hijackers were obscured by perjured testimony from government agents.
There was also a cover-up concerning many aspects of the bizarre behavior of our air defenses which ensured the success of the attacks.
proudfootz 2 years ago
How much does it cost to attend a David Ray griffin lecture on conspiracy theories?
$60 at the door.
$50 if purchase in advance.
$40 if you're a student (WOW what a discout!)
And add an addition $60 if you want to have dinner and cocktails with him!
By the way, Alex Jones doesn't just make money of 911, HE MAKES A VERY COMFORTABLE LIVING OF IT!
ctcole77 2 years ago
ctc -
OCTs make a lot more money off their 'box-cutter conspiracy' theory than anyone else.
So your 'point' is rather sad - even with CAPS LOCK.
proudfootz 2 years ago
Really? I suppose you have some type of reference for this statement?
If it wasn't for 9/11, Alex Jones, Bermas and Griffin would actually have to work for a living.
ctcole77 2 years ago
ctc -
Look at the US budget increases related to alleged foreign terror after 9/11.
There's a lot of people really raking in the bucks generated by the OCT.
proudfootz 2 years ago
Apparently Popular Mechanics book exploiting 9/11 wasn't being given away for free - wonder how much profit they scamed off the public for that?
proudfootz 2 years ago
I never said they didn't make money of it.
You're avoiding the whole point.
Popular Mechanics made one book, one magazine, and one documentary on 911.
911 is all Alex Jones, Bermas and Griffin write and produce.
911 has made them rich.
ctcole77 2 years ago
ctc -
You're avoiding the point - if making money off of 9/11 is a motive to deceive, then the OCT crowd has obviously much greater motivation: billions of dollars.
Alex Jones AFAIK had his program well before 9/11 (it seems he even predicted it), and Griffin was an accomplished scholar and author beforehand.
So it seems your 'point' is rather blunted by the facts. Again.
proudfootz 2 years ago
And richard Gage told me to tell you thanks.
He just took an all expense paid trip to New Zealand.
911 truth = paid vacations
ctcole77 2 years ago
The OCTs make way more money off their incredible version.
Giuliani was making nearly $2 million a month for his 'story'.
proudfootz 2 years ago
Oh yeah and I'm sure Rudy making money solely off 911 (Richard Gage is).
I'm sure in his "story" Rudy isn't talking about efforts he made to clean up Times Square, putting insider traders in prison, and busting gangsters.
You do know that Rudy was a DA and US attorney?
ctcole77 2 years ago
Giuliani became 'America's Mayor' because he happened to be there when 9/11 happened - he became a Presidential candidate on those credentials and was in demand because of his 'insightrs' into 9/11.
If people are interested in what Richard Gage has to say, why shouldn't he tell them? Is it censorship you are after?
proudfootz 2 years ago
@proudfootz
Giuliana became Americas mayor because he fixed New york. before 9/11
So why does AE truth need to sell Tshirts and DVDs?
taledarkside 2 years ago
@taledarkside
Nobody outside of New York ever heard of Giuliani before 9/11.
Police policies adopted before Giuliani are what 'fixed' New York.
If 9/11 never happened Giuliani wouldn't have been able to make millions in speaking fees or get appointed to Iraq study group.
proudfootz 2 years ago
@proudfootz
Giuliani was on the news almost everyday for what he was doing in new york. National news.
your a foreigner, why would you know
taledarkside 2 years ago
@taledarkside
Sorry, you're wrong again. I am a US citizen and not a 'foreigner' as you imagine.
Giuliani as candidate for President ran solely on the 'issue' of 9/11.
proudfootz 2 years ago