I know playing Killzone 3 and Resistance 3 with Move. Xbox owners! Do you know play Halo or Gears of War 3 with Kinect? No? Therefore, there is no point in debate. :)
@bojack69 your obviously an xbot and I'm a DS Fan but face it move games are far more exiting than Kinect games. Really like someone would choose to play Kinect Adventures over time crisis
@Zern227 cause time crisis was really terrible for the move.. really, really terrible. Kinect adventures may not be great but Kinect sports is a ton of fun and it's within 2 months of release, give it time. I read yesterday that every major game developer has a kinect game lined up right now and only a very small handful have been announced. Looks like us xboxers have something to get excited about
@xxYetterxx I have kinect adventures 5 mins in I was bored to death and with the time crisis demo I have I can't get enough of it.. I looked at the line they all look like Wii Eyetoy rip offs.
@Zern227 I agree with with you kinect adventures is nothing special, I've played the time crisis demo its a shooter on rails, hardly holds my interest. Is it better than kinect adventures? probably, but neither of them are worth my money. lucky kinect adventures is free so I don't feel bad about owning it.
Kinect seems pretty good but why do you all think move is bad move is awesome and how are you suppose to play shooter on kinect? Ok move is a wii ripoff but Kinect is a eyetoy ripoff.
@19pieman i like both kinect and move, kinect has some fallbacks, a couple of games simply ignore some movements.This will probably be overcome with some better games. Kinect is better for racing or simple adventure games while the move gives you a nice animation of your movement, much better for action/shooters and has none of the lagg that kinect has (0.5 sec delay) cause you are still using a controller and the kinect has to capture the motion send it to yr xbox and then illustrate it.
i thought this came out in nov. how the hell do you have it now. oh and your baggin on sony fanboys? wat about you? how imature is that? and you dont even giv a real argument. you just come on looking like an asstard
lol!!!! You are a freakin 25 year old grown ass man & you are being a stupid biased faggot? What a joke. If I want to play with kinect, then I can just use my PS3 EYE, which is superior to kinect in every way, just look up the specs. Bye loser =b
@Tooneedo Haha, did you just call a basic webcam superior tech to a 3D depth sensor? Get a clue. And how can he be biased if he owns both, what he has done is called forming an opinion.
@InaudibleWhisper Did you just call the PS3 EYE a basic webcam? Are you retarded? You should learn about it before spewing bullshit. The PS3 EYE can do everything kinect can, plus the PS3 EYE has superior audio & visual compared to kinect, just look it up & freakin read. Also, are you an idot? It doesn't matter if you own 1 or multiple consoles, you can still be biased. So according to your logic, since I own a ps3 & 360, I can say whatever I want even if its false cuz i own both. LOL! YOU FAIL!
@Tooneedo No, you should learn about it, I know both technologies quite well. Please tell me what separates the PSEye from other webcams. And then inform me how a 2D camera with no built-in software can track a human body with 3D depth. The PSEye has the rxact same resolution as Kinects RGB camera, the PSEye has more frames per second, that is it's ONLY advantage. Good job Kinect used a far more sophisticated 3D depth sensor as well as RGB for tracking.
@InaudibleWhisper Oh you do? Then you should know that the PS3 EYE is just as sophisticated as kinect & can do everything kinect can do & can also do full body motion tracking & mapping & can also do 3D spacing as well just like kinect. The only edge that I see kinect having over the PS3 EYE is that it has 2 cameras instead of 1, but they run at 30FPS & kinect's horizontal & vertical field of view is 43x57, while the PS3 EYE runs at 120FPS & its horizontal & vertical field of view is 56x75.
@Tooneedo Haha, you really truly don't know what these technologies are, do you? The PSEye is a camera. That is it. Just a webcam. By definition, that is EXACTLY what it is. Fact. A 2D standard video camera. RGB. The Kinect isn't just 2 of those. The second device in Kinect is a 3D depth sensor. It see's you and your room in 3D, it knows if you walk forward or if you put a hand forward. How you can even begin to think a bog standard 2D cam is as sophisticated is beyond ludicrous.
@InaudibleWhisper Lol, yes I do, but you don't seem to. The PS3 EYE can also tell when walk forward or when you put a hand forward. I don't understand what you are trying say there. Both Kinect & Eye support speech recognition, video chat, full body mapping capabilities & multiplayer modes. Also, Microsoft themselves said that they downgraded the kinect hardware to cut production costs. So Kinect is not be capable of the 32-bit color-depth setting.
@Tooneedo You keep claiming things that the PSEye can do with zero evidence. Where are these full 3D body mapping PSeye demonstrations? All Eyetoy games tracked basic movement, not the body. It didn't know if you put your hand behind a button, you have to wiggle your fingers because it's just looking for movement. And the depth sensor resolution was downgraded in Kinect, that is all. It is still capable of excellent 3D depth tracking, just without smaller features like fingers from far away.
@Tooneedo I mean come on, at the start if this you said I was a retard for calling the PSEye a webcam when that is what it is. You clearly had some grand idea that it is more than it actually is. Sony were actually experimenting with depth cameras in 2000 like Kinect, and openly admit on video "We're doing tracking with the Z-cam that just can't be done with a color cam". The color cam is what they ended up with, the Eyetoy, because depth was too expensive at the time.
@InaudibleWhisper lol no, I said you were a retard for calling it a BASIC webcam. Also, there is evidence all over the net, you just got to look it up like I said already. Also, you clearly have some idea that it is less than it actually is. The PS3 EYE is leaps & bounds over what the PS2 eyetoy could ever be, but you treat the PS3 EYE as if it was just some minor graphic upgrade from the PS2 eyetoy & that is where you are seriously wrong & seem not to really know about it or what it can do. Bye
@Tooneedo It IS a basic webcam. It has no flash ability, and a bog standard resolution. Have you seen what it looks like on an HDTV? It's grainy as shit. It's not rare to find HD cams now. It's good enough for Move, and as a webcam it is superior to the Eyetoy, but you're deluded if you think it can track a human well with 3D depth anywhere near as well as Kinect, or that it is as sophisticated. That is literally laughable, and Richard Marks would agree with me.
@InaudibleWhisper If the PS3 EYE is a basic webcam, then how come it can do everything that kinect can with a better framerate & graphical capability? Also kinect has the same resolution as the PS3 EYE, they can both do 320 x 240 & 640 X 480, but since kinect can't do 32 bit color depth cause MS had to downgrade the kinect hardware, kinect can now only do 320 X 240. The only edge I can see kinect having is better 3D depth because it has 2 cameras. Richard would be laughing at your ignorance. Bye
@Tooneedo God damn, you're so clueless. Go take a look at the depth sensor raw data feed. The PSEye can't see like that, it isn't equipped with a depth sensor. The secondary camera on Kinect isn't a RGB cam, it doesn't even see in colour it sees a projected IR light pattern. The PSEye can't do any of this stuff, and without a silhouetted human shape with depth information from an advanced sensor, it 100% can't track a human body with depth. That is an undisputed fact, which Marks openly admits.
@InaudibleWhisper Oh & I almost forgot that it also has superior precision & less lag & is less buggy. Anyway, I'm done arguing with you cuz I've got other things to do & I don't need to prove anything to you because the facts are there & PS3 EYE is what it is wheather you like it or not. Look it up, research it, or whatever. Seya. =b
@Tooneedo I have done plenty of research given my course at university. I one a PSEye and a Move and will own Kinect. The fact that you've spent this much time writing defensive diatribes without being able to provide one article or video that proves your claims is telling. "I don't need to prove anything" just says it all. You can't prove anything! And yes, with a depth sensor the tracking is FAR for precise. Background occlusion, limb differentiation, raw depth data.
@InaudibleWhisper Your still here? I'm not making claims, I'm simply stating stuff that I have seen or read from reliable sources. For the one billionth time, just look for the evidence yourself, I'm not trying to prove anything to you, that is the point, im just saying things from what I've found & is known about it to be factual from reliable sources. Why are you being so serious about this? just get over it. I'm tired of arguing, now please go away & leave me alone. Bye
@Tooneedo You clearly don't have very reliable sources (you can't even tell me what they are) since you are factually wrong about the capabilities of the PSEye. You've put just as much into this "debate" as me and you're the one that keeps returning despite repeatedly saying "Bye". I'm just trying to prevent you from blurting out ignorant untruths like other Sony trolls who delude themselves into thinking Kinect = PSEye. Heck you're worse, you actually believe PSEye is better which is laughable.
@InaudibleWhisper #1 No I don't & you shouldn't assume things, PS3 EYE is better when it comes certain things & kinect is better when it comes to other things. #2 I'm not a sony troll or else I wouldn't give kinect credit for anything or say anything good about kinect. #3 This is no debate, this is me telling you that the PS3 Eye can do most of what kinect does, but obviously not everything & that if you want proof, just look it up. You are taking this way to seriously dude, chill. Seriously Bye
@Tooneedo When it comes to 3D body tracking, which is the point of Kinect's depth sensor and technology, the PSEye is superior in no way. The PSEye has a better RGB camera so for games that put your image into them it will be slightly better, but most Kinect games only utilize the RGB cam for taking pictures and video. And originally you weren't giving Kinect any credit, you were saying "PSEye is just as sophisticated can do everything Kinect can!!!". That is all I wanted to disprove.
@Tooneedo In fact your original comment, which you have to admit did sound like the ramblings of a Sony troll, was "PSEye is superior to Kinect in every way!"
@Tooneedo And thus it comes as no surprise that not a single Eyetoy or PSEye demonstration or app has shown any kind of full body tracking. Show me ONE video. You can't, it hasn't been done. It can't be done. You could never have complete control over a 3D character render like you can with Kinect. Again, all examples of PSEye usage show basic movement tracking and 2D human cutout. If it was capable of all of the things you say, then why haven't Sony or any developer EVER taken advantage of it?
@InaudibleWhisper First of all, I said that kinect has an edge when it comes to the 3D depth, but you failed to read that. Second, once again I will say what I already said before. Just look it up, don't ask me why. You can find out that PS3 EYE can do everything kinect can do if you do research, the only it won't be able to do as well as kinect can is 3D depth, which I said before, but the PS3 EYE makes up for that with superior graphics, superior resolution, superior FPS, & superior audio. Bye
@InaudibleWhisper I think the better argument would be with the consoles the 360 with kinect is doing something that the PS2 was capable of (with the z-cam before MS bought the company)
but having said that, it doesn't matter how fancy or how much tech is in the kinect it is still basically the same as an eyetoy or ps eye, games will have noticeable lag due to the frame rate of the camera. games will play more or less the same. like kung fu live and kinetic (yes that's the ps2 eye toy game)
@maddoc79 Well, it DOES matter how fancy the tech is, because that is was makes it NOT the same as the PSEye. Kinetic, again like all webcam games, just detected movement. You could beat the game by literally shaking the camera. Kung Fu Live just uses 2D background occlusion and basic gesture/movement gameplay. Again, no PSEye game has ever, nor will it ever allow full body 3D motion tracking. The tech isn't capable of it.
@InaudibleWhisper and yet with all that said, it will still produce the same gaming experience (with maybe a touch more precision)
and no the ps eye isn't capable of 3d motion tracking, but the ps2 with z-cam was, which was a last gen console. like I said fancy tech means absolutely nothing when the end result is the same.
@maddoc79 Well yes, but the PS2 Z-Cam never made it to market. The Move and Wiimote would have worked on the PS2 too. And I have to disagree that they're producing the same gaming experiences. Many of the Kinect launch games give the player complete control of a rendered 3D character. If you hit something, there is a genuine physics based collision in the game, it's not a case of "movement detected, hit! movement detected, button selected".
@InaudibleWhisper you misunderstand what is meant by gaming experience, sure, the kinect gives you control of a 3d model, but for that to be of any use the tech needs to be much better and the framerates/hz need to be higher plus all this bullshit about face detection and body detection, you know that is all software based and is also something that the ps eye would be capable of you just need a developer to program it (would it be better than kinect? probably not, as it's only a single camera)
@maddoc79 Well of course having control of a 3D model has use. That's what virtually all of the decent launch games do, and they largely work without a problem. Lag is an issue with some games, but it's fine with others. Many games run at 30fps, which is what Kinect runs at. Heck movies run at 24fps. And yes, Kinect gives every developer the ability to do body tracking, face recognition and voice control out of the box using software. And that software uses the raw depth data from the hardware.
@InaudibleWhisper lol I keep tryin to tell people same thing .... I think the real fail is that there was no strong ,identifiable adult launch title.. thats gunna hurt until they release some more lag free hardcore adult games.
@maddoc79 I will agree though that the games thus far aren't really unique nor innovative. They are the TYPE of games you'd expect on an Eyetoy, just using a deeper and more complex mechanism. But these are launch games, so it's expected that developers make what they're comfortable with. The announced 2011 games should be more interesting!
@InaudibleWhisper I've yet to see any games for kinect that are anything but casual games, Child Of Eden does not look like a hardcore game (I didn't think much of REZ either) oh and if MS go with what people are expecting them to do (which is using the kinect in tandem with the original controller they are just completely backtracking on the "you are the controller" bullshit they've been spouting for the past couple of years
as an original xbox and 360 owner I can safely say that I hate kinect
@maddoc79 Just because they're casual doesn't mean they don't work. Regardless, Project Draco, Codename D, Rise Of Nightmares, Steel Battalion 2 and Forza are hardcore games. As is Child of Eden. A casual game is a simple game traditionally played by none-gamers like Wii Sports and Wii Fit, often designed to work in a party-like environment. Rez isn't anything of the sort. It is absolutely fantastic, and I expect Child of Eden to follow as such.
@InaudibleWhisper stop being a condescending prick, I know the difference between party games and hardcore. I hated REZ, it was a boring game, glad you liked it though I'm all for diversity, but Child Of Eden looks like the same old shite.
just so you know there is quite a long list of things that kinect will not be doing straight out of the box.
oh and most good games run at 60hz, ps eye is even capable of 120hz at a lower video quality (kinect is stuck at 30hz apparently)
@Tooneedo It is literally impossible for a 2D camera to accurately track a human body with depth consistently. It has to simulate it by tracking the size of objects (if it's smaller, its further away). This is why the Move has a big ball on the end, so it is easy to track. The human body doesn't glow, and it isn't easy to track. Thus the PSEye can't track a human body in 3D remotely as well as Kinect. There is no footage of the PSEye doing this, nor any game that utilises such tracking.
what is the point of the video?? to show your ghetto ass flop house...and how you stepped on the move...the same move you stole from your neighbors house??
@InaudibleWhisper wow thats a dumb statement just cus thy have something dont mean thy know anything about it i know a lot of ppl with comps that dont know shit about them notice he explains and shows how it kills the move or is it just a opinion
@budtoker13 If he prefers one over the other and is having fun with it, why does he have to know anything about it? It is automatically better to him. Thus, having used both and decided he likes Kinect better, he is in a better position to judge it.
@InaudibleWhisper just cus its 1 persons opinion dont make it true he is intideled to his opinion but if he cant state why he thinks that he should not post a vid he dusent even show a game running so for all you know he culd just have the hardware and no games and then he would know just as much as we do about it
@budtoker13 I never said it was true, just that it is true for him and he is in a position to judge for himself which he prefers. And he must be in the beta to have the hardware, in which case he has access to game downloads from the beta dashboard (as well as the hardware coming with Kinect Adventures).
@InaudibleWhisper i cant wait for my local gamestop to get a demo in so i can test it for my self but i think it will never compete with the move or the wii just cus i cant see how rpg fps rts games will work all i see on it is party games
@budtoker13 I think if developers try to make games designed for controllers it won't work so well. It'll be better for unique games made specifically for Kinect. There is some potential in some of the more hardcore sounding titles coming out next year, but we'll have to wait and see how they play. I doesn't bother me that it isn't well suited to an FPS or RTS, since I prefer to play those with Keyboard/mouse/controller already. I don't need a replacement for those genres.
@InaudibleWhisper ya but are rail games really fun thats why im not getting the shoot i like control over what i do sport camps is sic and shows the potential of what games can be and tumble show how 3d interaction can work i would love to see a fallout or oblivion style game use the move
@budtoker13 Well they don't have to all be on rails. A game like Project Draco (Panzero Dragoon) is on rails by design, but games can be used with a controller + Kinect and there are other way of moving. Fun games like Tumble and Sports Champion (I agree, easily the best Move games) don't require you to walk around an environment at all, so again it's a case of developers designing games and choosing genres that suit it well.
@InaudibleWhisper and you keep saying the rgb has nothing to do with body tracking but ms in the faq ses it helps with it so if its not there it cant work take 1 part away it all fails
@budtoker13 It helps with it if it is needed. As I said, it is optional. It does not in ANY way for ANY reason need the RGB camera to create a skeletal model of the player, and track him in 3D. Why would it? It makes zero sense and goes completely against why Kinect is unique, and why the skeleton is shown via the raw depth data in dozens of videos. It HELPS if you need facial tracking, or RGB overlay. Most games don't, so if you take that aspect away, the core skeletal tracking still works.
@InaudibleWhisper we will see when its out we can argue about this all day long but without the hardware in are hands to test we cant say 100% weather it is or not me i wont get one just cus i dont like the 360 i loved the first but the fail rate disc scratch and pay for online is bs in my opinion and i will never own a 360
@budtoker13 Fair enough. Personally I don't choose sides. I'm an early adopter for technology and I love the 360 and the PS3, and I see potential in Move and Kinect for different reasons. Maybe this guy can make a video using Kinect in the dark :p
@InaudibleWhisper all he needs to do is just show it working with the rgb covered if it works its not needed if it dont work its needed and the rgb is the cam on the left
Could you show us some gameplay with you visible (you except for your head of course so you wont get in trouble ;)) so we can see how low the lag is? there is a lot of talk about lag on kinect, but i seriously hope they got this issue fixed :)
ir works in the dark like a light bulb works in the dark light is light is light whether its visible to humans or not and you still need the rgb for it to work cus in order to log in to a game it needs to see you otherwise it would see everyone as the same person hints the part ware it ses the rgb is used for face and body tracking the rgb is as vital to how it works as is the ir cam remove one and it stops working and every thing i see about kinect ses you need good light and low light is light
@budtoker13 For the 20th time, the RGB is not used for body tracking. Fair enough in the dark it wouldn't auto-log you in using your face, but I'm sure if you're THAT desperate to play in the dark, you'll use a pad to log in like 360 owners have been doing for 5 years. And no game requires face tracking right now. In fact no game needs to see your body at all, it just needs to see the IR data which gives FAR better and more precise human body data than the RGB does which is why it is solely used
@InaudibleWhisper so ms is wrong when thy say the rgb cam is used in body tracking cus of cores you would know cus you made it and you programed it so you would know its not like ms had anything to do with it and 3dv had nothing to do with it and thy are the ones saying the rgb is intrigue to how it works buy of cores thy don't know how it works right why would thy say its used for body tracking if its not why because it is wow what a concept right
@budtoker13 Is English your first language? I'm having trouble understanding you. The RGB can be used with the depth sensor in certain situations for body tracking, such as if you want your body in the game, or if the game requires face tracking. But Kinect's skeletal tracking, the thing that really makes it work, is entirely using the depth sensor and that is all most of the launch games need to work. There is NO benefit to using the RGB cam for skeletal tracking, if anything it's a hindrance.
@budtoker13 What, how am I making fun of you? I asked a question, and I had absolutely no clue about your disability. Please don't turn it around and make it out like I was doing something I quite clearly wasn't.
@InaudibleWhisper im just tiered of hearing is English your first language bs and use spell check so i just instantly get defensive cus was born in America and speak English and spell check in not 100% but i try my best
@budtoker13 Well, I apologise if you took offence. 99% of the people on the internet with really bad spelling and grammar are like that through stupidity or because English is a second language, but I don't like to jump to conclusions which is why I asked.
@InaudibleWhisper according to ms and 3dv this is how it works ir projector projects ir light it has a finite field it only gos out so far before it dissipates if you are behind where it dissipates it don't see you if you are in the field the ir bounces of you the brighter it is the closer you are not the rgb is used for the face recognition body tracking AKA skeletal tracking so how is that the ir cam doing it even 3dv ses otherwise and thy made it so thy would know
@budtoker13 Primesense make the Kinect hardware, not 3DV and Microsoft make the software. Microsoft bought 3DV for their patents so they can make Kinect without being sued. Please point to one place where Microsoft states that Kinect uses the RGB camera for skeletal tracking. Practically every "How does Kinect work" article talks in length about how the depth sensor is the primary tool. Again, the RGB is of no benefit over the depth sensor, so why use it? Google 'Digital Foundry Kinect Analysis'
@InaudibleWhisper 3dv was bought by ms and renamed primesense you can look that info up and hears where thy say the body tracking aka skeletal tracking is dun with the rgb this is from there faq you can look it up
RGB camera - Kinect has a video camera that delivers the three basic color components. As part of the Kinect sensor, the RGB camera helps in enabling facial recognition and full body tracking.
@budtoker13 Primesense are a separate company not owned by Microsoft and were founded in 2005. They are just building the hardware for Microsoft, as well as their own depth cams. 3DV were a completely separate company that no longer exist as Microsoft bought them and their patents. And again, that says "RGB HELPS" i.e. it isn't doing the tracking, but can be optionally beneficial should it be needed. Which it isn't, most of the time. Watch this - watch?v=Gx-0mdN2r9o
now lets get in to the view angles with only a 57x43 you will need to stand further from the cam for it to track full body but with the 75 you don't need to stand as far back so what one is better i dun show how the eye alone is in every way better then the kinect and with the move it is just that much better all you can do is show your self kicking around something your parents bought you with no concept of what it is so you fail
now what dus this all mean well in the frame per seconded category if a game is running at 60fps and the cam is tracking at 30fps you are getting 1 motion track for every 2 game frames so it will have a lag but if you have a game running at 60fps with a cam running at 60fps you get 1 to 1 but if you have the cam running at 120fps you get 2 cam tracks for 1 game frame so how is the kinect better i know you get kinectimals every xbots fantasy come true LOL
@budtoker13 You have an absolutely massive misunderstanding about what Kinect is. It isn't 2 cameras. It is one camera which is the same type as the PSEye (RGB) and the second piece of technology, the thing that makes it work, is a 3D depth sensor with an IR projector. It is a COMPLETELY different piece of technology to the PSEye which is a basic webcam. It's provides depth data for every raw pixel received so that it is able to map the player an environment in 3D.
@InaudibleWhisper actually there is 2 cams in kinect first is a rgb for tracking like the eye dus the seconded is a ir sensitive cam used for tracking the ir light projected sony tested this tech in 2001 when thy were looking in to what cam to use for the eyetoy and thy found with a little pre calibration you can do every thing the kinect can for 1/3 the price now no the ps eye cant see in 3d like the kinect can but with the pre calibration it can track the z axis just like the kinect
@budtoker13 No, a depth sensor isn't just a camera that can see IR light. It produces data any standard camera does not. A camera gives each pixel light data which is used to produce a picture. The depth sensor reads an IR projection pattern, and it gives each pixel depth data. It is a more complex process than "just an IR sensitive camera". Any camera is IR sensitive if you put the right filter over the lens; that is not what Kinect is doing.
so lets compare kinect to ps eye kinect has 2 cams eye only 1 ok so more is better well how about the resolution oh there the same 640x480 or 320x340 now how about frames per seconded kinect 30 LOL ps eye 60 to 120 2 to 4 times faster now how about viewing angle kinect horizontal 57 and vertical 43 with a tilt base adding another 27 now the eye has 2 modes first is 57 both horizontal and vertical the seconed is a 75 now what cam is better
@budtoker13 So with this data and Kinects software, Kinect is capable of tracking a human body with depth in 3D (forward, back, left and right) to mm precision. Thus you can have complete control of a 3D rendered character in a game, something impossible with any accuracy with the PSEye. You also have a gross overestimation of what the PSEye is capable of. There has never been a single Eyetoy game with human tracking of any kind. It is smoke and mirrors, it tracks basic MOVEMENT on a 2D plane.
@InaudibleWhisper so you have not seen the tech demos of the eyetoy doing z axis tracking back in 2001 and don't fully understand that any of the shelf web cam can do z axis tracking how about the head tracking software sony showed at e3 2008 whit augmented reality wear thy put a cow head over ppls heads and when thy got closer the head got bigger and when thy got further it got smaller that is tracking in z axis without the ir bs so even tho thy do it differently in the end its the same
@budtoker13 Head tracking from close enough is pretty easy, as you say ANY web cam can do it, it's just a case of locking onto the eyes, nose and mouth. This is very much different to tracking the motions of an entire body in 3D and applying it to a game character. Something that was NEVER done by the Eyetoy in a retail game, nor any public webcam demonstration that I have ever seen. Heck even Eyetoy menu's required you to WAVE because it was tracking movement and it didn't recognise hands.
@InaudibleWhisper so your saying the EyeToy AntiGrav wear when you moved your avatar moved to didn't exist just cus you don't know about it don't me it don't exist just do some research next thing you will tell me is socom and end war did not have voice control which is something ms ses cant be dun on any other console
@budtoker13 I OWNED AntiGrav. You need to do your research and understand how the technology works. Look at this vid of the game, "NAVGTR B-roll: Antigrav" You see in the bottom corner? That is what the Eyetoy is seeing. What they have basically done is created 3 "touch pads", 2 blue at the sides and one red in the center. These react to movement. There is absolutely zero tracking of a human body going on whatsoever. When you move your hand up and down the right pad, the board goes right.
@budtoker13 What is that video supposed to prove? He is using a depth cam, so anything shown in that video is NOT viable with the cam they ended up going with. Kinect would work with the SNES if you could plug it in... it means nothing unless Sony actually have such a product on shelves, which they do not. The fact that they experimented with it first means nothing.
@InaudibleWhisper he also shows the eyetoy doing the stuff the z-cam dus with pre calibration thats what it proves which is why thy went with the cam thy did he also ses why thy went with a 60fps cam and not a 30fps cam which is the biggest downfall in the kinect
Respond to this video...so i have shown that every thing you think you know is bs and the eyetoy has the tech demos to prove it is every bit as capable of the stuff ms ses can only be dun on there console why has it not come out before now well devs don't take risk the tech was not 100% and cost was to high but now its all coming together and thy eye can do every thing the kinect can cus in the end its not the cam its the software and sony has ben working on the software for 10 years
@budtoker13 You fool, that video is using a depth cam. He keeps saying "With the Z cam", he is referring to the 3DV depth camera. He even says before the skeleton body demonstration at about 7:15, "Here is another demo using that same Z-Camera (Kinect), we can do motion capture with color (RGB, PSEye) but you can only do so well". You have proven my point. An RGB cam can do basic tracking, a head or a face or a coloured ball, but not a 3D human body.
@InaudibleWhisper and why cant a rgb cam do 3d body all you need it a reference point and basic hand arm head tracking all stuff sony has ben demoing for years then overlay a 3d animation and bam you have kinect for cheaper ya you need to pre calibrate but it works the same the tech is different but the outcome is the same
@budtoker13 Right, so I bowl a ball with an RGB cam, how does it know how far back I've pulled my arm, and how far forward/at what speed it is moving forward? It would have to guess based on the arms size. Again, it would be janky and beyond inaccurate. A 2D camera has zero depth to it, there is a reason why ALL Eyetoy games use movement and not body tracking and why Sony used a depth cam in their 2000 demonstration, openly admitting "color can only do so well". The proof is in the pudding.
@InaudibleWhisper well first the pre calibration i hold out my hands to my side then it takes a pic now it knows how big my hand it so if i move it further away from the cam it gets smaller to the cam and as i move my hand closer to the cam it gets bigger just like how the move knows wear it is in 3d space simple right
@budtoker13 Yes, but my hand isn't a big glowing ball. So no, it isn't simple. Move works fantastically because it's tracking one obviously shaped, obviously lit item. If they could do the same with the human body, they would have.
@InaudibleWhisper and if the lighting conditions are right like the kinect will need it will work the same if you room is dark kinect will not work and if its to bright it will not work and if your cloths mach your walls it will not work same as any cam bast tracking system
@budtoker13 Um, a depth cam doesn't work with light. Kinect has been demonstrated numerous times working in pitch black. Stop thinking of Kinect as a camera, it doesn't have these limitations. Obviously having a shirt on the same color is the wall isn't going to help, but with depth tracking it KNOWS that there is a human shape IN FRONT of the wall, so it doesn't suffer from such disadvantages.
@InaudibleWhisper so the instructions that wore leaked and all over the net that say you need light not to bright and not to dark are wrong cus you would know better you made the dame thing if it dont need light the how dus the rgb cam work ya the ir might work if lights are out but the rest dont and it need both rgb and ir to work
@budtoker13 The RGB camera is used only for taking pictures and videos right now, not tracking, so that wouldn't work in the dark. And the leak was from the TROUBLESHOOTING section, not what is required to get it to work. Most troubleshooting sections have unlikely scenarios just in case. The Wii troubleshooting section says to not play next to a fireplace, candles or LED's. Yet it works fine in those situations 99% of the time. Again, Kinect has been SHOWN working in the dark numerous times.
@InaudibleWhisper most the times thy show it working in press conferences you can tell its not relay working its a show (star wars demo) and when thy do show it working for real it in a well lit room not a dark one and it dus need both cams for tracking just watch any vid wear the explain how it work or look in to the z-cam and how it works and you will see it needs both if it only needed 1 then why add the other why not make it cheaper and just use the ir cam and for get the pic taking part
Respond to this video...so this is from ms faq on kinect
RGB camera - Kinect has a video camera that delivers the three basic color components. As part of the Kinect sensor, the RGB camera helps in enabling facial recognition and full body tracking.
Depth sensor - An infrared projector combined with a monochrome CMOS sensor allows Kinect to see the room in 3D (as opposed to inferring the room from a 2 dimensional image) under any lighting conditions.
@InaudibleWhisper so you keep saying i have a misunderstanding how kinect works but it seams to me you dont know how it works you keep saying its not a cam but it is you say it can be used in the dark but it cant you think a 2d cam cant do body tracking but kinect uses the rgb 2d cam for that so how am i miss interpreting how it works
@budtoker13 When I say it is not a camera, I mean in the traditional sense. It doesn't produce a recognisable visual image using light and colour and it doesn't work using light like a usual camera. It reads depth from an IR pattern, so it is better described as a sensor. This works in complete darkness.
@InaudibleWhisper The RGB camera is useful for several things. It is used for facial recognition, it is used to take pictures and video, and it is used if the game requires your image to be used in the game instead of a render of a character. Currently ALL kinect games use a render, so the RGB isn't needed for body tracking. Look at this video to see the raw skeletal tracking, and note that it is ONLY depth camera data and then he can put RGB data on top OPTIONALLY - watch?v=Cr5oVYgIH2Q
@InaudibleWhisper yes thats how the depth sensor work and it uses a cmoc which is how a digital camera works and it dus produce a understandable image just a black and whit one and it dus use light just a ir one i have nvg that use a cmos and a ir light to see in the dark but for the kinect to track you is still needs the rgb and that needs reg light to work im not disputing how the depth part works but how the body tracking works and it uses the rgb not the depth
@InaudibleWhisper and if it produces a unrecognizable image how come in the vid when it shows the dashbored in the lower right hand corner you see what the depth sensor sees and i can recognize what it is showing cant you
@budtoker13 When I said a recognisable visual image, I meant that it doesn't have any light or color data with which to show detail, it is pure depth data so you can only see silhouettes of objects and to the human eye the IR data it uses to build the image is invisible, so we're seeing a render of this data in visible terms. And that data is what it uses to place the skeletal data on the human shape. The RGB is only needed for face tracking/recognition and color data that most games don't need.
@InaudibleWhisper so the fact that inferred is a light spectrum and the fact in the vid you pointed me to it shows the depth overlay on the gbr aka rgb info means nothing to you light is light and it still uses the RGB cam for face recognition and body tracking as stated 100s of time in every faq wiki and demo of the kinect and z-cam
@budtoker13 Yes, IR is a light spectrum. But when I say "light" you know I'm not referring to "IR" or else I'd say "IR", because IR works in the dark and that is all that is needed for the depth body tracking. Microsoft have themselves stated numerous times that it will work in low lighting conditions. What is important is EVEN lighting, so it wouldn't be beneficial to have complete darkness with a lamp in one corner.
@InaudibleWhisper do this when you get a kinect cover the rgb cam and see if it works you will find it don't and show me a real vid not a bs stage show like the star wars demo of it working in the dark
@InaudibleWhisper and thy state the rgb cam is used for face recognition and body tracking which is what the kinect is all about if you remove 1 component it all falls apart you cant do all the tracking with just the depth cam it need the rgb too so if its dark the rgb cant work and so the whole thing stops working simple as that
@budtoker13 So if you want to play Kinect Adventures, or Kinect Sports for example, the render on screen will still follow you even in the dark as the skeleton is still working over the IR Depth data. It wouldn't be able to put an image of you over the character in the dark and the replays wouldn't work, but the core gameplay would work without issue.
@InaudibleWhisper kinect is a cam its 2 1 rgb like any other web cam 2 is a ir sensitive cam but is a cam nun the less it works on the same basics as any other cam out there it needs light so see an image the ir cam sees the ir light projected from the kinect and the rgb sees the regular light if the room is filed with to much ir it will not work and if irs not filed with enough light for the rgb to see it will not work
@InaudibleWhisper and with the move it can do more i bet in a year you will see a move type device for kinect just so it can compete cus the kinect cant do the stuff move can like the modeling stuff actual painting not slashing paint everywhere pointing which is key to fps and rts or the full 3d interface just look at some of the stuff anton shows and say ya the kinect can do that to like his minority report demo and the gecko demo and the ar games move like a wii kinect hybrid best of both
@budtoker13 No, you're right, Kinect isn't as precise as a Move. But they're two different types of technology with different advantages. Move gives you pin point precision of one or two hands, Kinect gives you mm precision of your whole body. You've still had to backtrack massively from your original claims.
@InaudibleWhisper hears a vid of a 1 cam no ir web can doing basic body tracking but remember you cant do that unless you have a kinect right its nothing special its ppl have ben working on it and for cheaper then ms wants for it its over priced and over hyped and ppl that don't know better think its new and only on xbox but in fact its everywhere
@budtoker13 Come on, that isn't even remotely comparable to the tracking going on with Kinect. That is beyond basic and janky, and in 2D to boot. I'm not claiming Kinect is new, nor that nobody else has experimented with it. But right now it is the only device on a console capable of doing what it does to the precision and quality that it does. I own Move and I love that too, but that is better for hand tracking and Kinect is at body tracking. Simple as.
@InaudibleWhisper ya im sorry its some guy at home making it himself as compared to a software company like ms which has a team working on it but you see that body tracking can be dun with any cam not juat a 3d cam and sony shows how you can make a 2d cam work as a 3d cam so it is a valid point it shows that you dont need a fancy cam to do the basics it just takes a little better programing
@budtoker13 Yes, basic. As I said. You couldn't play most of the Kinect games with a 2D camera, as they require 1:1 body movement, not "basic tracking" and they require depth which, with a 2D cam, would be ENTIRELY simulated and inaccurate. And where have Sony shown that they can magically get 3D data from a 2D camera? But your right, you don't need a fancy cam to do THE BASICS. Personally, I hold my technology to a higher standard than THE BASICS.
so the fact that the ps eye not the move already has the tech demos showing off head tracking motion tracking body tracking voice recognition and every thing els that ms clams can only be dun on kinect escapes you because you only looked in to 1 component of the move which is the controller how about doing a little looking around and you can fined all the demos going back to 2000 running on ps2 with the eyetoy but ya kinect kills ps move LOL move is just the next in the ps eyes evilotion
I know playing Killzone 3 and Resistance 3 with Move. Xbox owners! Do you know play Halo or Gears of War 3 with Kinect? No? Therefore, there is no point in debate. :)
5hr3ky 2 months ago
how dare you ignorant butt monkey step on the ps move? BOW TO YOUR MAKER! that almost offending me when i saw you do that, fatty
1996bonny 1 year ago
@bojack69 your obviously an xbot and I'm a DS Fan but face it move games are far more exiting than Kinect games. Really like someone would choose to play Kinect Adventures over time crisis
Zern227 1 year ago
@Zern227 cause time crisis was really terrible for the move.. really, really terrible. Kinect adventures may not be great but Kinect sports is a ton of fun and it's within 2 months of release, give it time. I read yesterday that every major game developer has a kinect game lined up right now and only a very small handful have been announced. Looks like us xboxers have something to get excited about
xxYetterxx 1 year ago
@xxYetterxx I have kinect adventures 5 mins in I was bored to death and with the time crisis demo I have I can't get enough of it.. I looked at the line they all look like Wii Eyetoy rip offs.
Zern227 1 year ago
@Zern227 I agree with with you kinect adventures is nothing special, I've played the time crisis demo its a shooter on rails, hardly holds my interest. Is it better than kinect adventures? probably, but neither of them are worth my money. lucky kinect adventures is free so I don't feel bad about owning it.
xxYetterxx 1 year ago
Hopefully they release an update via Xbox LIVE for Kinect to stop the lag :/
hardcoreLazors 1 year ago
Very intelligent video. Must be really proud of your self.
hilpparisilkki 1 year ago
Kinect seems pretty good but why do you all think move is bad move is awesome and how are you suppose to play shooter on kinect? Ok move is a wii ripoff but Kinect is a eyetoy ripoff.
eecydeecy 1 year ago 4
@eecydeecy Uh the eyetoy wand shown in 2000 and ps move use the same concept so its like a sequel.
Zern227 1 year ago
Look at all these fanboys
TheDsihelp 1 year ago
Kinect= rip off eyetoy
19pieman 1 year ago 4
@19pieman i like both kinect and move, kinect has some fallbacks, a couple of games simply ignore some movements.This will probably be overcome with some better games. Kinect is better for racing or simple adventure games while the move gives you a nice animation of your movement, much better for action/shooters and has none of the lagg that kinect has (0.5 sec delay) cause you are still using a controller and the kinect has to capture the motion send it to yr xbox and then illustrate it.
DHJ
seversage 1 year ago
@19pieman no idea why i made my comment a reply to yours, my bad ^^
seversage 1 year ago
@19pieman
move= rip off wii
Mattthijssss 1 year ago
@Mattthijssss Wii = rip off of eyetoy and eyetoy wand.
Zern227 1 year ago
@19pieman Move=rip off wii mote
SONYandMICROSOFT 1 year ago
Ps Move = Wii
Iwoxs 1 year ago
@Iwoxs Wii = Eyetoy Wand
Zern227 1 year ago
I don't know why I thought this was so funny.
theoriginalJASONXYZ 1 year ago
Are you Justin Bieber?
kuraimen 1 year ago
for some reason i found the end to be DAMN HILARIOUS!!!!
meanmugfan 1 year ago
Please, no more! You're gonna anger these Nerdsole bots. LoL
DLTDawnlight 1 year ago
Hey, hey kids
LOL @ CONSOLE GAMING WARS
runec666 1 year ago
u seriously are demented.. loser.. what a wasted video... yuk,...
srujay 1 year ago
i thought this came out in nov. how the hell do you have it now. oh and your baggin on sony fanboys? wat about you? how imature is that? and you dont even giv a real argument. you just come on looking like an asstard
pwny999 1 year ago
Hold on you lose cred for even having a name like Bojack
dunker888 1 year ago
LMFAO stop acting like you wanna break that move. You know DAMN right your gonna shove it up your ass and taste it.
dunker888 1 year ago
Hahah, Pyro200x is trollin EVERYWHERE!!!!!!!!
HeroOfWinds007 1 year ago
Dude... you are an idiot there really is no other way to put it
C4DemoN15 1 year ago
Oh look its a eye toy camera
DisgaeaWare 1 year ago
lol!!!! You are a freakin 25 year old grown ass man & you are being a stupid biased faggot? What a joke. If I want to play with kinect, then I can just use my PS3 EYE, which is superior to kinect in every way, just look up the specs. Bye loser =b
Tooneedo 1 year ago
@Tooneedo Haha, did you just call a basic webcam superior tech to a 3D depth sensor? Get a clue. And how can he be biased if he owns both, what he has done is called forming an opinion.
InaudibleWhisper 1 year ago
@InaudibleWhisper Did you just call the PS3 EYE a basic webcam? Are you retarded? You should learn about it before spewing bullshit. The PS3 EYE can do everything kinect can, plus the PS3 EYE has superior audio & visual compared to kinect, just look it up & freakin read. Also, are you an idot? It doesn't matter if you own 1 or multiple consoles, you can still be biased. So according to your logic, since I own a ps3 & 360, I can say whatever I want even if its false cuz i own both. LOL! YOU FAIL!
Tooneedo 1 year ago
@Tooneedo No, you should learn about it, I know both technologies quite well. Please tell me what separates the PSEye from other webcams. And then inform me how a 2D camera with no built-in software can track a human body with 3D depth. The PSEye has the rxact same resolution as Kinects RGB camera, the PSEye has more frames per second, that is it's ONLY advantage. Good job Kinect used a far more sophisticated 3D depth sensor as well as RGB for tracking.
InaudibleWhisper 1 year ago
@InaudibleWhisper Oh you do? Then you should know that the PS3 EYE is just as sophisticated as kinect & can do everything kinect can do & can also do full body motion tracking & mapping & can also do 3D spacing as well just like kinect. The only edge that I see kinect having over the PS3 EYE is that it has 2 cameras instead of 1, but they run at 30FPS & kinect's horizontal & vertical field of view is 43x57, while the PS3 EYE runs at 120FPS & its horizontal & vertical field of view is 56x75.
Tooneedo 1 year ago
@Tooneedo Haha, you really truly don't know what these technologies are, do you? The PSEye is a camera. That is it. Just a webcam. By definition, that is EXACTLY what it is. Fact. A 2D standard video camera. RGB. The Kinect isn't just 2 of those. The second device in Kinect is a 3D depth sensor. It see's you and your room in 3D, it knows if you walk forward or if you put a hand forward. How you can even begin to think a bog standard 2D cam is as sophisticated is beyond ludicrous.
InaudibleWhisper 1 year ago
@InaudibleWhisper Lol, yes I do, but you don't seem to. The PS3 EYE can also tell when walk forward or when you put a hand forward. I don't understand what you are trying say there. Both Kinect & Eye support speech recognition, video chat, full body mapping capabilities & multiplayer modes. Also, Microsoft themselves said that they downgraded the kinect hardware to cut production costs. So Kinect is not be capable of the 32-bit color-depth setting.
Tooneedo 1 year ago
@Tooneedo You keep claiming things that the PSEye can do with zero evidence. Where are these full 3D body mapping PSeye demonstrations? All Eyetoy games tracked basic movement, not the body. It didn't know if you put your hand behind a button, you have to wiggle your fingers because it's just looking for movement. And the depth sensor resolution was downgraded in Kinect, that is all. It is still capable of excellent 3D depth tracking, just without smaller features like fingers from far away.
InaudibleWhisper 1 year ago
@Tooneedo I mean come on, at the start if this you said I was a retard for calling the PSEye a webcam when that is what it is. You clearly had some grand idea that it is more than it actually is. Sony were actually experimenting with depth cameras in 2000 like Kinect, and openly admit on video "We're doing tracking with the Z-cam that just can't be done with a color cam". The color cam is what they ended up with, the Eyetoy, because depth was too expensive at the time.
InaudibleWhisper 1 year ago
@InaudibleWhisper lol no, I said you were a retard for calling it a BASIC webcam. Also, there is evidence all over the net, you just got to look it up like I said already. Also, you clearly have some idea that it is less than it actually is. The PS3 EYE is leaps & bounds over what the PS2 eyetoy could ever be, but you treat the PS3 EYE as if it was just some minor graphic upgrade from the PS2 eyetoy & that is where you are seriously wrong & seem not to really know about it or what it can do. Bye
Tooneedo 1 year ago
@Tooneedo It IS a basic webcam. It has no flash ability, and a bog standard resolution. Have you seen what it looks like on an HDTV? It's grainy as shit. It's not rare to find HD cams now. It's good enough for Move, and as a webcam it is superior to the Eyetoy, but you're deluded if you think it can track a human well with 3D depth anywhere near as well as Kinect, or that it is as sophisticated. That is literally laughable, and Richard Marks would agree with me.
InaudibleWhisper 1 year ago
@InaudibleWhisper If the PS3 EYE is a basic webcam, then how come it can do everything that kinect can with a better framerate & graphical capability? Also kinect has the same resolution as the PS3 EYE, they can both do 320 x 240 & 640 X 480, but since kinect can't do 32 bit color depth cause MS had to downgrade the kinect hardware, kinect can now only do 320 X 240. The only edge I can see kinect having is better 3D depth because it has 2 cameras. Richard would be laughing at your ignorance. Bye
Tooneedo 1 year ago
@Tooneedo God damn, you're so clueless. Go take a look at the depth sensor raw data feed. The PSEye can't see like that, it isn't equipped with a depth sensor. The secondary camera on Kinect isn't a RGB cam, it doesn't even see in colour it sees a projected IR light pattern. The PSEye can't do any of this stuff, and without a silhouetted human shape with depth information from an advanced sensor, it 100% can't track a human body with depth. That is an undisputed fact, which Marks openly admits.
InaudibleWhisper 1 year ago
@InaudibleWhisper Oh & I almost forgot that it also has superior precision & less lag & is less buggy. Anyway, I'm done arguing with you cuz I've got other things to do & I don't need to prove anything to you because the facts are there & PS3 EYE is what it is wheather you like it or not. Look it up, research it, or whatever. Seya. =b
Tooneedo 1 year ago
@Tooneedo I have done plenty of research given my course at university. I one a PSEye and a Move and will own Kinect. The fact that you've spent this much time writing defensive diatribes without being able to provide one article or video that proves your claims is telling. "I don't need to prove anything" just says it all. You can't prove anything! And yes, with a depth sensor the tracking is FAR for precise. Background occlusion, limb differentiation, raw depth data.
InaudibleWhisper 1 year ago
@InaudibleWhisper Your still here? I'm not making claims, I'm simply stating stuff that I have seen or read from reliable sources. For the one billionth time, just look for the evidence yourself, I'm not trying to prove anything to you, that is the point, im just saying things from what I've found & is known about it to be factual from reliable sources. Why are you being so serious about this? just get over it. I'm tired of arguing, now please go away & leave me alone. Bye
Tooneedo 1 year ago
@Tooneedo You clearly don't have very reliable sources (you can't even tell me what they are) since you are factually wrong about the capabilities of the PSEye. You've put just as much into this "debate" as me and you're the one that keeps returning despite repeatedly saying "Bye". I'm just trying to prevent you from blurting out ignorant untruths like other Sony trolls who delude themselves into thinking Kinect = PSEye. Heck you're worse, you actually believe PSEye is better which is laughable.
InaudibleWhisper 1 year ago
@InaudibleWhisper #1 No I don't & you shouldn't assume things, PS3 EYE is better when it comes certain things & kinect is better when it comes to other things. #2 I'm not a sony troll or else I wouldn't give kinect credit for anything or say anything good about kinect. #3 This is no debate, this is me telling you that the PS3 Eye can do most of what kinect does, but obviously not everything & that if you want proof, just look it up. You are taking this way to seriously dude, chill. Seriously Bye
Tooneedo 1 year ago
@Tooneedo When it comes to 3D body tracking, which is the point of Kinect's depth sensor and technology, the PSEye is superior in no way. The PSEye has a better RGB camera so for games that put your image into them it will be slightly better, but most Kinect games only utilize the RGB cam for taking pictures and video. And originally you weren't giving Kinect any credit, you were saying "PSEye is just as sophisticated can do everything Kinect can!!!". That is all I wanted to disprove.
InaudibleWhisper 1 year ago
@Tooneedo In fact your original comment, which you have to admit did sound like the ramblings of a Sony troll, was "PSEye is superior to Kinect in every way!"
InaudibleWhisper 1 year ago
@Tooneedo And thus it comes as no surprise that not a single Eyetoy or PSEye demonstration or app has shown any kind of full body tracking. Show me ONE video. You can't, it hasn't been done. It can't be done. You could never have complete control over a 3D character render like you can with Kinect. Again, all examples of PSEye usage show basic movement tracking and 2D human cutout. If it was capable of all of the things you say, then why haven't Sony or any developer EVER taken advantage of it?
InaudibleWhisper 1 year ago
@InaudibleWhisper First of all, I said that kinect has an edge when it comes to the 3D depth, but you failed to read that. Second, once again I will say what I already said before. Just look it up, don't ask me why. You can find out that PS3 EYE can do everything kinect can do if you do research, the only it won't be able to do as well as kinect can is 3D depth, which I said before, but the PS3 EYE makes up for that with superior graphics, superior resolution, superior FPS, & superior audio. Bye
Tooneedo 1 year ago
@InaudibleWhisper I think the better argument would be with the consoles the 360 with kinect is doing something that the PS2 was capable of (with the z-cam before MS bought the company)
but having said that, it doesn't matter how fancy or how much tech is in the kinect it is still basically the same as an eyetoy or ps eye, games will have noticeable lag due to the frame rate of the camera. games will play more or less the same. like kung fu live and kinetic (yes that's the ps2 eye toy game)
maddoc79 1 year ago
@maddoc79 Well, it DOES matter how fancy the tech is, because that is was makes it NOT the same as the PSEye. Kinetic, again like all webcam games, just detected movement. You could beat the game by literally shaking the camera. Kung Fu Live just uses 2D background occlusion and basic gesture/movement gameplay. Again, no PSEye game has ever, nor will it ever allow full body 3D motion tracking. The tech isn't capable of it.
InaudibleWhisper 1 year ago
@InaudibleWhisper and yet with all that said, it will still produce the same gaming experience (with maybe a touch more precision)
and no the ps eye isn't capable of 3d motion tracking, but the ps2 with z-cam was, which was a last gen console. like I said fancy tech means absolutely nothing when the end result is the same.
maddoc79 1 year ago
@maddoc79 Well yes, but the PS2 Z-Cam never made it to market. The Move and Wiimote would have worked on the PS2 too. And I have to disagree that they're producing the same gaming experiences. Many of the Kinect launch games give the player complete control of a rendered 3D character. If you hit something, there is a genuine physics based collision in the game, it's not a case of "movement detected, hit! movement detected, button selected".
InaudibleWhisper 1 year ago
@InaudibleWhisper you misunderstand what is meant by gaming experience, sure, the kinect gives you control of a 3d model, but for that to be of any use the tech needs to be much better and the framerates/hz need to be higher plus all this bullshit about face detection and body detection, you know that is all software based and is also something that the ps eye would be capable of you just need a developer to program it (would it be better than kinect? probably not, as it's only a single camera)
maddoc79 1 year ago
@maddoc79 Well of course having control of a 3D model has use. That's what virtually all of the decent launch games do, and they largely work without a problem. Lag is an issue with some games, but it's fine with others. Many games run at 30fps, which is what Kinect runs at. Heck movies run at 24fps. And yes, Kinect gives every developer the ability to do body tracking, face recognition and voice control out of the box using software. And that software uses the raw depth data from the hardware.
InaudibleWhisper 1 year ago
@InaudibleWhisper lol I keep tryin to tell people same thing .... I think the real fail is that there was no strong ,identifiable adult launch title.. thats gunna hurt until they release some more lag free hardcore adult games.
Daisycutt3r 1 year ago
@maddoc79 I will agree though that the games thus far aren't really unique nor innovative. They are the TYPE of games you'd expect on an Eyetoy, just using a deeper and more complex mechanism. But these are launch games, so it's expected that developers make what they're comfortable with. The announced 2011 games should be more interesting!
InaudibleWhisper 1 year ago
@InaudibleWhisper I've yet to see any games for kinect that are anything but casual games, Child Of Eden does not look like a hardcore game (I didn't think much of REZ either) oh and if MS go with what people are expecting them to do (which is using the kinect in tandem with the original controller they are just completely backtracking on the "you are the controller" bullshit they've been spouting for the past couple of years
as an original xbox and 360 owner I can safely say that I hate kinect
maddoc79 1 year ago
@maddoc79 Just because they're casual doesn't mean they don't work. Regardless, Project Draco, Codename D, Rise Of Nightmares, Steel Battalion 2 and Forza are hardcore games. As is Child of Eden. A casual game is a simple game traditionally played by none-gamers like Wii Sports and Wii Fit, often designed to work in a party-like environment. Rez isn't anything of the sort. It is absolutely fantastic, and I expect Child of Eden to follow as such.
InaudibleWhisper 1 year ago
@InaudibleWhisper stop being a condescending prick, I know the difference between party games and hardcore. I hated REZ, it was a boring game, glad you liked it though I'm all for diversity, but Child Of Eden looks like the same old shite.
just so you know there is quite a long list of things that kinect will not be doing straight out of the box.
oh and most good games run at 60hz, ps eye is even capable of 120hz at a lower video quality (kinect is stuck at 30hz apparently)
maddoc79 1 year ago
@Tooneedo It is literally impossible for a 2D camera to accurately track a human body with depth consistently. It has to simulate it by tracking the size of objects (if it's smaller, its further away). This is why the Move has a big ball on the end, so it is easy to track. The human body doesn't glow, and it isn't easy to track. Thus the PSEye can't track a human body in 3D remotely as well as Kinect. There is no footage of the PSEye doing this, nor any game that utilises such tracking.
InaudibleWhisper 1 year ago
awesome
hardyzfan253 1 year ago
@Pyro2000x how did you own me by running away like a little bitch and spreading falseness
mechtech15 1 year ago
kinect is sitting right where it belongs; next to that xbox 360 hd dvd player. We all now how that dvd player panned out in it's lifespan.
Eternalsky1982 1 year ago
@Pyro2000x your welcome and seems like you never had an education above the fifth grade
mechtech15 1 year ago
what is the point of the video?? to show your ghetto ass flop house...and how you stepped on the move...the same move you stole from your neighbors house??
nasty ass 360 fanboys!!
frank1978 1 year ago
@frank1978 the whole point is that everyone hates the ps3 it sucks put it that way ha its suck big time
GABSTER1324 1 year ago
@GABSTER1324 that was a retarded comment...that is just a little child making an immature comment..
frank1978 1 year ago
Get some game play videos up mate. Been waiting for ages for a beta tester to get the balls to shut the ps fanboys the fuck up.
FORZALEGEND360 1 year ago
kinect sux ps move is better go get it
trg1408 1 year ago
@trg1408 If you watched the video you'd see that he already has it, so he is in a far better position to judge than you.
InaudibleWhisper 1 year ago
@InaudibleWhisper wow thats a dumb statement just cus thy have something dont mean thy know anything about it i know a lot of ppl with comps that dont know shit about them notice he explains and shows how it kills the move or is it just a opinion
budtoker13 1 year ago
@budtoker13 If he prefers one over the other and is having fun with it, why does he have to know anything about it? It is automatically better to him. Thus, having used both and decided he likes Kinect better, he is in a better position to judge it.
InaudibleWhisper 1 year ago
@InaudibleWhisper just cus its 1 persons opinion dont make it true he is intideled to his opinion but if he cant state why he thinks that he should not post a vid he dusent even show a game running so for all you know he culd just have the hardware and no games and then he would know just as much as we do about it
budtoker13 1 year ago
@budtoker13 I never said it was true, just that it is true for him and he is in a position to judge for himself which he prefers. And he must be in the beta to have the hardware, in which case he has access to game downloads from the beta dashboard (as well as the hardware coming with Kinect Adventures).
InaudibleWhisper 1 year ago
@InaudibleWhisper i cant wait for my local gamestop to get a demo in so i can test it for my self but i think it will never compete with the move or the wii just cus i cant see how rpg fps rts games will work all i see on it is party games
budtoker13 1 year ago
@budtoker13 I think if developers try to make games designed for controllers it won't work so well. It'll be better for unique games made specifically for Kinect. There is some potential in some of the more hardcore sounding titles coming out next year, but we'll have to wait and see how they play. I doesn't bother me that it isn't well suited to an FPS or RTS, since I prefer to play those with Keyboard/mouse/controller already. I don't need a replacement for those genres.
InaudibleWhisper 1 year ago
@InaudibleWhisper ya but are rail games really fun thats why im not getting the shoot i like control over what i do sport camps is sic and shows the potential of what games can be and tumble show how 3d interaction can work i would love to see a fallout or oblivion style game use the move
budtoker13 1 year ago
@budtoker13 Well they don't have to all be on rails. A game like Project Draco (Panzero Dragoon) is on rails by design, but games can be used with a controller + Kinect and there are other way of moving. Fun games like Tumble and Sports Champion (I agree, easily the best Move games) don't require you to walk around an environment at all, so again it's a case of developers designing games and choosing genres that suit it well.
InaudibleWhisper 1 year ago
@InaudibleWhisper using a controller with kinect don't that go against the whole no controller needed campaign LOL
budtoker13 1 year ago
@InaudibleWhisper and you keep saying the rgb has nothing to do with body tracking but ms in the faq ses it helps with it so if its not there it cant work take 1 part away it all fails
budtoker13 1 year ago
@budtoker13 It helps with it if it is needed. As I said, it is optional. It does not in ANY way for ANY reason need the RGB camera to create a skeletal model of the player, and track him in 3D. Why would it? It makes zero sense and goes completely against why Kinect is unique, and why the skeleton is shown via the raw depth data in dozens of videos. It HELPS if you need facial tracking, or RGB overlay. Most games don't, so if you take that aspect away, the core skeletal tracking still works.
InaudibleWhisper 1 year ago
@InaudibleWhisper we will see when its out we can argue about this all day long but without the hardware in are hands to test we cant say 100% weather it is or not me i wont get one just cus i dont like the 360 i loved the first but the fail rate disc scratch and pay for online is bs in my opinion and i will never own a 360
budtoker13 1 year ago
@budtoker13 Fair enough. Personally I don't choose sides. I'm an early adopter for technology and I love the 360 and the PS3, and I see potential in Move and Kinect for different reasons. Maybe this guy can make a video using Kinect in the dark :p
InaudibleWhisper 1 year ago
@InaudibleWhisper all he needs to do is just show it working with the rgb covered if it works its not needed if it dont work its needed and the rgb is the cam on the left
budtoker13 1 year ago
Could you show us some gameplay with you visible (you except for your head of course so you wont get in trouble ;)) so we can see how low the lag is? there is a lot of talk about lag on kinect, but i seriously hope they got this issue fixed :)
GuerrillaM6 1 year ago
ir works in the dark like a light bulb works in the dark light is light is light whether its visible to humans or not and you still need the rgb for it to work cus in order to log in to a game it needs to see you otherwise it would see everyone as the same person hints the part ware it ses the rgb is used for face and body tracking the rgb is as vital to how it works as is the ir cam remove one and it stops working and every thing i see about kinect ses you need good light and low light is light
budtoker13 1 year ago
@budtoker13 For the 20th time, the RGB is not used for body tracking. Fair enough in the dark it wouldn't auto-log you in using your face, but I'm sure if you're THAT desperate to play in the dark, you'll use a pad to log in like 360 owners have been doing for 5 years. And no game requires face tracking right now. In fact no game needs to see your body at all, it just needs to see the IR data which gives FAR better and more precise human body data than the RGB does which is why it is solely used
InaudibleWhisper 1 year ago
@InaudibleWhisper so ms is wrong when thy say the rgb cam is used in body tracking cus of cores you would know cus you made it and you programed it so you would know its not like ms had anything to do with it and 3dv had nothing to do with it and thy are the ones saying the rgb is intrigue to how it works buy of cores thy don't know how it works right why would thy say its used for body tracking if its not why because it is wow what a concept right
budtoker13 1 year ago
@budtoker13 Is English your first language? I'm having trouble understanding you. The RGB can be used with the depth sensor in certain situations for body tracking, such as if you want your body in the game, or if the game requires face tracking. But Kinect's skeletal tracking, the thing that really makes it work, is entirely using the depth sensor and that is all most of the launch games need to work. There is NO benefit to using the RGB cam for skeletal tracking, if anything it's a hindrance.
InaudibleWhisper 1 year ago
@InaudibleWhisper yes English is my first language im dyslexic and use spell check do you also make fun of paraplegics cus thy have wheel chars
budtoker13 1 year ago
@budtoker13 What, how am I making fun of you? I asked a question, and I had absolutely no clue about your disability. Please don't turn it around and make it out like I was doing something I quite clearly wasn't.
InaudibleWhisper 1 year ago
@InaudibleWhisper im just tiered of hearing is English your first language bs and use spell check so i just instantly get defensive cus was born in America and speak English and spell check in not 100% but i try my best
budtoker13 1 year ago
@budtoker13 Well, I apologise if you took offence. 99% of the people on the internet with really bad spelling and grammar are like that through stupidity or because English is a second language, but I don't like to jump to conclusions which is why I asked.
InaudibleWhisper 1 year ago
@InaudibleWhisper according to ms and 3dv this is how it works ir projector projects ir light it has a finite field it only gos out so far before it dissipates if you are behind where it dissipates it don't see you if you are in the field the ir bounces of you the brighter it is the closer you are not the rgb is used for the face recognition body tracking AKA skeletal tracking so how is that the ir cam doing it even 3dv ses otherwise and thy made it so thy would know
budtoker13 1 year ago
@budtoker13 Primesense make the Kinect hardware, not 3DV and Microsoft make the software. Microsoft bought 3DV for their patents so they can make Kinect without being sued. Please point to one place where Microsoft states that Kinect uses the RGB camera for skeletal tracking. Practically every "How does Kinect work" article talks in length about how the depth sensor is the primary tool. Again, the RGB is of no benefit over the depth sensor, so why use it? Google 'Digital Foundry Kinect Analysis'
InaudibleWhisper 1 year ago
@InaudibleWhisper 3dv was bought by ms and renamed primesense you can look that info up and hears where thy say the body tracking aka skeletal tracking is dun with the rgb this is from there faq you can look it up
RGB camera - Kinect has a video camera that delivers the three basic color components. As part of the Kinect sensor, the RGB camera helps in enabling facial recognition and full body tracking.
budtoker13 1 year ago
@budtoker13 Primesense are a separate company not owned by Microsoft and were founded in 2005. They are just building the hardware for Microsoft, as well as their own depth cams. 3DV were a completely separate company that no longer exist as Microsoft bought them and their patents. And again, that says "RGB HELPS" i.e. it isn't doing the tracking, but can be optionally beneficial should it be needed. Which it isn't, most of the time. Watch this - watch?v=Gx-0mdN2r9o
InaudibleWhisper 1 year ago
this vid shows why move is better and doing thing you cant do with kinect
PlayStation Move - Anton Mikhailov at DevCon 2010
budtoker13 1 year ago
now lets get in to the view angles with only a 57x43 you will need to stand further from the cam for it to track full body but with the 75 you don't need to stand as far back so what one is better i dun show how the eye alone is in every way better then the kinect and with the move it is just that much better all you can do is show your self kicking around something your parents bought you with no concept of what it is so you fail
budtoker13 1 year ago
now what dus this all mean well in the frame per seconded category if a game is running at 60fps and the cam is tracking at 30fps you are getting 1 motion track for every 2 game frames so it will have a lag but if you have a game running at 60fps with a cam running at 60fps you get 1 to 1 but if you have the cam running at 120fps you get 2 cam tracks for 1 game frame so how is the kinect better i know you get kinectimals every xbots fantasy come true LOL
budtoker13 1 year ago
@budtoker13 You have an absolutely massive misunderstanding about what Kinect is. It isn't 2 cameras. It is one camera which is the same type as the PSEye (RGB) and the second piece of technology, the thing that makes it work, is a 3D depth sensor with an IR projector. It is a COMPLETELY different piece of technology to the PSEye which is a basic webcam. It's provides depth data for every raw pixel received so that it is able to map the player an environment in 3D.
InaudibleWhisper 1 year ago
@InaudibleWhisper actually there is 2 cams in kinect first is a rgb for tracking like the eye dus the seconded is a ir sensitive cam used for tracking the ir light projected sony tested this tech in 2001 when thy were looking in to what cam to use for the eyetoy and thy found with a little pre calibration you can do every thing the kinect can for 1/3 the price now no the ps eye cant see in 3d like the kinect can but with the pre calibration it can track the z axis just like the kinect
budtoker13 1 year ago
@budtoker13 No, a depth sensor isn't just a camera that can see IR light. It produces data any standard camera does not. A camera gives each pixel light data which is used to produce a picture. The depth sensor reads an IR projection pattern, and it gives each pixel depth data. It is a more complex process than "just an IR sensitive camera". Any camera is IR sensitive if you put the right filter over the lens; that is not what Kinect is doing.
InaudibleWhisper 1 year ago
so lets compare kinect to ps eye kinect has 2 cams eye only 1 ok so more is better well how about the resolution oh there the same 640x480 or 320x340 now how about frames per seconded kinect 30 LOL ps eye 60 to 120 2 to 4 times faster now how about viewing angle kinect horizontal 57 and vertical 43 with a tilt base adding another 27 now the eye has 2 modes first is 57 both horizontal and vertical the seconed is a 75 now what cam is better
budtoker13 1 year ago
@budtoker13 So with this data and Kinects software, Kinect is capable of tracking a human body with depth in 3D (forward, back, left and right) to mm precision. Thus you can have complete control of a 3D rendered character in a game, something impossible with any accuracy with the PSEye. You also have a gross overestimation of what the PSEye is capable of. There has never been a single Eyetoy game with human tracking of any kind. It is smoke and mirrors, it tracks basic MOVEMENT on a 2D plane.
InaudibleWhisper 1 year ago
@InaudibleWhisper so you have not seen the tech demos of the eyetoy doing z axis tracking back in 2001 and don't fully understand that any of the shelf web cam can do z axis tracking how about the head tracking software sony showed at e3 2008 whit augmented reality wear thy put a cow head over ppls heads and when thy got closer the head got bigger and when thy got further it got smaller that is tracking in z axis without the ir bs so even tho thy do it differently in the end its the same
budtoker13 1 year ago
@budtoker13 Head tracking from close enough is pretty easy, as you say ANY web cam can do it, it's just a case of locking onto the eyes, nose and mouth. This is very much different to tracking the motions of an entire body in 3D and applying it to a game character. Something that was NEVER done by the Eyetoy in a retail game, nor any public webcam demonstration that I have ever seen. Heck even Eyetoy menu's required you to WAVE because it was tracking movement and it didn't recognise hands.
InaudibleWhisper 1 year ago
@InaudibleWhisper so your saying the EyeToy AntiGrav wear when you moved your avatar moved to didn't exist just cus you don't know about it don't me it don't exist just do some research next thing you will tell me is socom and end war did not have voice control which is something ms ses cant be dun on any other console
budtoker13 1 year ago
@budtoker13 I OWNED AntiGrav. You need to do your research and understand how the technology works. Look at this vid of the game, "NAVGTR B-roll: Antigrav" You see in the bottom corner? That is what the Eyetoy is seeing. What they have basically done is created 3 "touch pads", 2 blue at the sides and one red in the center. These react to movement. There is absolutely zero tracking of a human body going on whatsoever. When you move your hand up and down the right pad, the board goes right.
InaudibleWhisper 1 year ago
Respond to this video...watch this listen to what thy say and understand
Project Natal running on PlayStation 2 , 5 years ago ( Pre N
budtoker13 1 year ago
@budtoker13 What is that video supposed to prove? He is using a depth cam, so anything shown in that video is NOT viable with the cam they ended up going with. Kinect would work with the SNES if you could plug it in... it means nothing unless Sony actually have such a product on shelves, which they do not. The fact that they experimented with it first means nothing.
InaudibleWhisper 1 year ago
@InaudibleWhisper he also shows the eyetoy doing the stuff the z-cam dus with pre calibration thats what it proves which is why thy went with the cam thy did he also ses why thy went with a 60fps cam and not a 30fps cam which is the biggest downfall in the kinect
budtoker13 1 year ago
Respond to this video...so i have shown that every thing you think you know is bs and the eyetoy has the tech demos to prove it is every bit as capable of the stuff ms ses can only be dun on there console why has it not come out before now well devs don't take risk the tech was not 100% and cost was to high but now its all coming together and thy eye can do every thing the kinect can cus in the end its not the cam its the software and sony has ben working on the software for 10 years
budtoker13 1 year ago
@budtoker13 You fool, that video is using a depth cam. He keeps saying "With the Z cam", he is referring to the 3DV depth camera. He even says before the skeleton body demonstration at about 7:15, "Here is another demo using that same Z-Camera (Kinect), we can do motion capture with color (RGB, PSEye) but you can only do so well". You have proven my point. An RGB cam can do basic tracking, a head or a face or a coloured ball, but not a 3D human body.
InaudibleWhisper 1 year ago
@InaudibleWhisper and why cant a rgb cam do 3d body all you need it a reference point and basic hand arm head tracking all stuff sony has ben demoing for years then overlay a 3d animation and bam you have kinect for cheaper ya you need to pre calibrate but it works the same the tech is different but the outcome is the same
budtoker13 1 year ago
@budtoker13 Right, so I bowl a ball with an RGB cam, how does it know how far back I've pulled my arm, and how far forward/at what speed it is moving forward? It would have to guess based on the arms size. Again, it would be janky and beyond inaccurate. A 2D camera has zero depth to it, there is a reason why ALL Eyetoy games use movement and not body tracking and why Sony used a depth cam in their 2000 demonstration, openly admitting "color can only do so well". The proof is in the pudding.
InaudibleWhisper 1 year ago
@InaudibleWhisper well first the pre calibration i hold out my hands to my side then it takes a pic now it knows how big my hand it so if i move it further away from the cam it gets smaller to the cam and as i move my hand closer to the cam it gets bigger just like how the move knows wear it is in 3d space simple right
budtoker13 1 year ago
@budtoker13 Yes, but my hand isn't a big glowing ball. So no, it isn't simple. Move works fantastically because it's tracking one obviously shaped, obviously lit item. If they could do the same with the human body, they would have.
InaudibleWhisper 1 year ago
@InaudibleWhisper and if the lighting conditions are right like the kinect will need it will work the same if you room is dark kinect will not work and if its to bright it will not work and if your cloths mach your walls it will not work same as any cam bast tracking system
budtoker13 1 year ago
@budtoker13 Um, a depth cam doesn't work with light. Kinect has been demonstrated numerous times working in pitch black. Stop thinking of Kinect as a camera, it doesn't have these limitations. Obviously having a shirt on the same color is the wall isn't going to help, but with depth tracking it KNOWS that there is a human shape IN FRONT of the wall, so it doesn't suffer from such disadvantages.
InaudibleWhisper 1 year ago
@InaudibleWhisper so the instructions that wore leaked and all over the net that say you need light not to bright and not to dark are wrong cus you would know better you made the dame thing if it dont need light the how dus the rgb cam work ya the ir might work if lights are out but the rest dont and it need both rgb and ir to work
budtoker13 1 year ago
@budtoker13 The RGB camera is used only for taking pictures and videos right now, not tracking, so that wouldn't work in the dark. And the leak was from the TROUBLESHOOTING section, not what is required to get it to work. Most troubleshooting sections have unlikely scenarios just in case. The Wii troubleshooting section says to not play next to a fireplace, candles or LED's. Yet it works fine in those situations 99% of the time. Again, Kinect has been SHOWN working in the dark numerous times.
InaudibleWhisper 1 year ago
@InaudibleWhisper most the times thy show it working in press conferences you can tell its not relay working its a show (star wars demo) and when thy do show it working for real it in a well lit room not a dark one and it dus need both cams for tracking just watch any vid wear the explain how it work or look in to the z-cam and how it works and you will see it needs both if it only needed 1 then why add the other why not make it cheaper and just use the ir cam and for get the pic taking part
budtoker13 1 year ago
Respond to this video...so this is from ms faq on kinect
RGB camera - Kinect has a video camera that delivers the three basic color components. As part of the Kinect sensor, the RGB camera helps in enabling facial recognition and full body tracking.
Depth sensor - An infrared projector combined with a monochrome CMOS sensor allows Kinect to see the room in 3D (as opposed to inferring the room from a 2 dimensional image) under any lighting conditions.
so you need lights
budtoker13 1 year ago
@InaudibleWhisper so you keep saying i have a misunderstanding how kinect works but it seams to me you dont know how it works you keep saying its not a cam but it is you say it can be used in the dark but it cant you think a 2d cam cant do body tracking but kinect uses the rgb 2d cam for that so how am i miss interpreting how it works
budtoker13 1 year ago
@budtoker13 When I say it is not a camera, I mean in the traditional sense. It doesn't produce a recognisable visual image using light and colour and it doesn't work using light like a usual camera. It reads depth from an IR pattern, so it is better described as a sensor. This works in complete darkness.
InaudibleWhisper 1 year ago
@InaudibleWhisper The RGB camera is useful for several things. It is used for facial recognition, it is used to take pictures and video, and it is used if the game requires your image to be used in the game instead of a render of a character. Currently ALL kinect games use a render, so the RGB isn't needed for body tracking. Look at this video to see the raw skeletal tracking, and note that it is ONLY depth camera data and then he can put RGB data on top OPTIONALLY - watch?v=Cr5oVYgIH2Q
InaudibleWhisper 1 year ago
@InaudibleWhisper yes thats how the depth sensor work and it uses a cmoc which is how a digital camera works and it dus produce a understandable image just a black and whit one and it dus use light just a ir one i have nvg that use a cmos and a ir light to see in the dark but for the kinect to track you is still needs the rgb and that needs reg light to work im not disputing how the depth part works but how the body tracking works and it uses the rgb not the depth
budtoker13 1 year ago
@InaudibleWhisper and if it produces a unrecognizable image how come in the vid when it shows the dashbored in the lower right hand corner you see what the depth sensor sees and i can recognize what it is showing cant you
budtoker13 1 year ago
@budtoker13 When I said a recognisable visual image, I meant that it doesn't have any light or color data with which to show detail, it is pure depth data so you can only see silhouettes of objects and to the human eye the IR data it uses to build the image is invisible, so we're seeing a render of this data in visible terms. And that data is what it uses to place the skeletal data on the human shape. The RGB is only needed for face tracking/recognition and color data that most games don't need.
InaudibleWhisper 1 year ago
@InaudibleWhisper so the fact that inferred is a light spectrum and the fact in the vid you pointed me to it shows the depth overlay on the gbr aka rgb info means nothing to you light is light and it still uses the RGB cam for face recognition and body tracking as stated 100s of time in every faq wiki and demo of the kinect and z-cam
budtoker13 1 year ago
@budtoker13 Yes, IR is a light spectrum. But when I say "light" you know I'm not referring to "IR" or else I'd say "IR", because IR works in the dark and that is all that is needed for the depth body tracking. Microsoft have themselves stated numerous times that it will work in low lighting conditions. What is important is EVEN lighting, so it wouldn't be beneficial to have complete darkness with a lamp in one corner.
InaudibleWhisper 1 year ago
@InaudibleWhisper do this when you get a kinect cover the rgb cam and see if it works you will find it don't and show me a real vid not a bs stage show like the star wars demo of it working in the dark
budtoker13 1 year ago
@InaudibleWhisper and thy state the rgb cam is used for face recognition and body tracking which is what the kinect is all about if you remove 1 component it all falls apart you cant do all the tracking with just the depth cam it need the rgb too so if its dark the rgb cant work and so the whole thing stops working simple as that
budtoker13 1 year ago
@budtoker13 So if you want to play Kinect Adventures, or Kinect Sports for example, the render on screen will still follow you even in the dark as the skeleton is still working over the IR Depth data. It wouldn't be able to put an image of you over the character in the dark and the replays wouldn't work, but the core gameplay would work without issue.
InaudibleWhisper 1 year ago
@InaudibleWhisper kinect is a cam its 2 1 rgb like any other web cam 2 is a ir sensitive cam but is a cam nun the less it works on the same basics as any other cam out there it needs light so see an image the ir cam sees the ir light projected from the kinect and the rgb sees the regular light if the room is filed with to much ir it will not work and if irs not filed with enough light for the rgb to see it will not work
budtoker13 1 year ago
@InaudibleWhisper and with the move it can do more i bet in a year you will see a move type device for kinect just so it can compete cus the kinect cant do the stuff move can like the modeling stuff actual painting not slashing paint everywhere pointing which is key to fps and rts or the full 3d interface just look at some of the stuff anton shows and say ya the kinect can do that to like his minority report demo and the gecko demo and the ar games move like a wii kinect hybrid best of both
budtoker13 1 year ago
@budtoker13 No, you're right, Kinect isn't as precise as a Move. But they're two different types of technology with different advantages. Move gives you pin point precision of one or two hands, Kinect gives you mm precision of your whole body. You've still had to backtrack massively from your original claims.
InaudibleWhisper 1 year ago
@InaudibleWhisper hears a vid of a 1 cam no ir web can doing basic body tracking but remember you cant do that unless you have a kinect right its nothing special its ppl have ben working on it and for cheaper then ms wants for it its over priced and over hyped and ppl that don't know better think its new and only on xbox but in fact its everywhere
Optical Tracking of upper body (torso)
budtoker13 1 year ago
@budtoker13 Come on, that isn't even remotely comparable to the tracking going on with Kinect. That is beyond basic and janky, and in 2D to boot. I'm not claiming Kinect is new, nor that nobody else has experimented with it. But right now it is the only device on a console capable of doing what it does to the precision and quality that it does. I own Move and I love that too, but that is better for hand tracking and Kinect is at body tracking. Simple as.
InaudibleWhisper 1 year ago
@InaudibleWhisper ya im sorry its some guy at home making it himself as compared to a software company like ms which has a team working on it but you see that body tracking can be dun with any cam not juat a 3d cam and sony shows how you can make a 2d cam work as a 3d cam so it is a valid point it shows that you dont need a fancy cam to do the basics it just takes a little better programing
budtoker13 1 year ago
@budtoker13 Yes, basic. As I said. You couldn't play most of the Kinect games with a 2D camera, as they require 1:1 body movement, not "basic tracking" and they require depth which, with a 2D cam, would be ENTIRELY simulated and inaccurate. And where have Sony shown that they can magically get 3D data from a 2D camera? But your right, you don't need a fancy cam to do THE BASICS. Personally, I hold my technology to a higher standard than THE BASICS.
InaudibleWhisper 1 year ago
so the fact that the ps eye not the move already has the tech demos showing off head tracking motion tracking body tracking voice recognition and every thing els that ms clams can only be dun on kinect escapes you because you only looked in to 1 component of the move which is the controller how about doing a little looking around and you can fined all the demos going back to 2000 running on ps2 with the eyetoy but ya kinect kills ps move LOL move is just the next in the ps eyes evilotion
budtoker13 1 year ago
haha. awesome video specially the end.
GamingIndian 1 year ago
kinect rules
nice video
KillFail2 1 year ago