Guillaume de Machaut- Puis qu'en oubli (polyphonic chanson)

[Achsje]

@89lillyflower (3 of 3) By the way, the term 'polyphony' also has another use, viz. for the general concept of music with multiple voices (if you know of another term for this overarching concept, I'd gladly hear it). Under such a definition, this music would of course be classed as polyphonic, as would any homophonic music, in fact. I don't mean this as an 'easy way out': under the more narrow, and in this case more useful definition, I guess it's open for debate.

[ivanosito]

What's the name of the painting? Isn't it "The Philosopher"?

[89lillyflower]

There is some obvious confusion here amoung many of you:

Monophonic: one melody

Homophonic: a melody with accompainment

Polyphonic: two or more melodies, with or with our acompainment

This is not polyphonic, it is homophonic it as one melody with an accompanment.

[89lillyflower]

@89lillyflower without** not "with our"

[Achsje]

@89lillyflower Your understanding of the term 'homophony' is inaccurate. While the melody of one voice can be more prominent than the other voices in homophony, this is not a necessary condition for a texture to be called 'homophonic'. Simply put, homophony is the creation of harmonies through multiple voices moving in (almost) the same rhythm, but not in continuously parallel pitch. This piece is polyphonic, because the voices are both rhythmically and melodically quite independent.

[Achsje]

@89lillyflower Also, for the record, I believe the term 'accompaniment' when applied to homophonic music is something different from what the lower two voices are doing here. They happen to be recorded at a low volume in this particular recording; that is not a characteristic of the piece. The top voice moves in a quicker rhythm, so you could say it has more 'prominence', but the function of the lower voices is not to form a rhythmically simple chordal structure. They form their own melodies.

[89lillyflower]

@Achsje

ac·com·pa·ni·ment [uh-kuhm-puh-ni-muhnt]

noun

1.

something incidental or added for ornament, symmetry, etc.

2.

Music . a part in a composition designed to serve as background and support for more important parts.

from dicionay.com

The melody of the lower voices is a less important melody, a melody that is supported the obvious independent melody, that makes it homophonic. Your understanding of the term homophonic is inaccurate.

[89lillyflower]

@Achsje You could have what ever opinon you want of this piece as well of anyone else, but when it comes down to it, this song: has a main melody in which attention is focused, is colored and supported by sounds of subordinate interest which does NOT compete for the listeners attention

IF it was polyphonic, the melodic lines would be of EQUAL interest, and would ALL COMPETE for the listeners attetion; the lower pitches do not compete for attention. Thus the song is HOMOPHONIC.

[Achsje]

@89lillyflower (1 of 3) On second thought, we may have both been partly right and partly wrong. Where I believe you're wrong, is the idea that the concept of homophony depends on whether there is a main melody with an accompaniment. Surely, such so-called 'melody-dominated' homophony exists, but it is not a necessary condition: many madrigals, for example, contain homophonic passages without such a distinction.

[Achsje]

@89lillyflower (2 of 3) On the other hand, polyphonic music with true temporal independence between voices can in fact consist of a cantus firmus and accompanying material. Where I was perhaps wrong, was my assessment of the degree of independence of the lower two voices: they have different internal rhythms, but there is a clear temporal alignment with the top voice. So I guess the case can be made both ways. Homophony depends on the lack of rhythmic independence, which is a matter of degree.

[droidss21]

Newport you must be in music appreciation lol

[NewportLocalBra]

I wish I didn't buy the book now.

[GeoAl09]

so weird how much i feel in love with this song a few months ago in class. its as if it was a sign of what was to come in my future...

[eetherealflux]

Thumbs up if you are a casual listener! :)

[1999521]

@javiercito121 Nobody cares, fag.

[fleammm]

@1999521 the lord gawd almighty doez senoro haha ya dig chud stain mcburgerkrugel

[MrIrikerice123]

finally, an original

[SpencerKathleen]

love this

[javiercito121]

viva hitler

[sk8t3xas]

I feel this guys pain.. I'm 23 and my ex was 18. Theres an age gap for you. She had the most beautiful smile. And I am forever forgotten by her

[SHAKOORK]

@sk8t3xas you speak french too?

[sk8t3xas]

@SHAKOORK

Nope, don't speak French. haha

[Areli2387]

or is it early organum?? Im so confused!

[MrIrikerice123]

@Areli2387 is polyphonic chanson from the mid-14th century

[Areli2387]

Is this a medieval motet?

[89lillyflower]

@Areli2387 no, this is a medieval secular piece because its homophonic, and in french, not latin. Motets came later into the rennaisanse period; motets were sacred and thus in latin, madrigals were in local languages and therefore they were secular; both madrigals and motets were/are polyphonic.

[Shesho3]

Im only listening to this because of my music history class

[TheRoxinaBox]

Music through the ages whattttt

[CloudyProductions420]

thumbs up if youre a Music Comp major composing a polyphonic piece for your profile!

[SpaceOut2085]

wat shuld i write about this song??? Im in music appreciation class. haha

[cjrieck23]

all because music appreciation class.....

[metalboy031290]

Thumbs up if you're a Music Major and heard this in Music Literature I

[Manny1222]

Doing a presentation on Renaissance music, etc. for my Shakespeare class. This is beautiful.

[loneydolly]

geez....i like the music and all but i dont like taking a music appreciation class because its just soo different just listening to music like this and not play it :(

[vrwhitlockable]

This is homophonic not polyphonic right?

[GeoAl09]

@vrwhitlockable

the title of the vid says polyphonic :p

[realmusicforlife]

@vrwhitlockable Polyphonic bc there is more than one "voice"

[ataxia742]

@vrwhitlockable The word "polyphonic" is in the title haha(:

[vrwhitlockable]

@ataxia742 I realize that but my professor said it was homophonic...

[GeoAl09]

thumbs up if your taking Music Appreciation! :)

[MrIrikerice123]

@GeoAl09 actually, im taking history 2 :)

[harrycox4]

@GeoAl09 lol second song I've seen a music appreciation comment on.

[rustyb78]

@GeoAl09 Bryan College woot woot...lol

[TheShadowreaper72]

Sigh music class.

[ClumsyTroll]

english translation:

Since I am forgotten by you, sweet friend,

I bid farewell to a life of love and joy.

Unlucky was the day I placed my love in you;

Since I am forgotten by you, sweet friend.

But what was promised you I will sustain:

That I shall never have any other love.

Since I am forgotten by you, sweet friend,

I bid farewell to a life of love and joy.

[yamanashi95]

Thank gawd, I'm taking Music history class now and I needed to find these songs. Thanks a whole lot bubblykings :D

[midrenbarclass]

@yamanashi95 me too! Musical history from middle ages to classical?

[ClumsyTroll]

Beauty does not define this song, this song defines beauty.

[plugee]

This is my jam when cruisin' downtown!

[MaestroTJS]

An extremely beautiful piece of music. The part that always manages to jar me every time I hear it is the cadence which doesn't go to the dominant chord (which is what we expect to hear because of later music) and he instead gives us a parallel chord. (This is at 0:12 and, of course, repeats throughout.)

[robdowling123]

This is a rondeau for 3 voices In English: Since I am forgotten by you, sweet friend, I bid farewell to a life of love and joy. Unlucky was the day I placed my love in you; Since I am forgotten by you, sweet friend. But what was promised you I will sustain: That I shall never have any other love. Since I am forgotten by you, sweet friend, I bid farewell to a life of love and joy.

[keetner]

I took music history quite some years ago now...if I could, I would definitely retake it again :(

I never really appreciated what I was learning...which is indeed a shame because listening back to many of the pieces I had to know - they're all very interesting.

[blurby15]

@keetner oh i would love you to death if you would help me with a music history assessment i have to do... i have to pick a secular music composer, choose a song, analyse it and talk about it in a presentation for 10 mins. but i have no idea how to analyse something like this >.<

[Freddymusician]

Chose the English Madrigal- Fair Phyllis from the Renaissance. It is an exellent example of secular music and there is so much to talk about.

[Freddymusician]

I just finished my theory history exam today and i do definitely appreciate all of the works.

[electrikrainbows]

Machaut's music is so haunting yet beautiful! I can't stop listening!

[PedroChik21]

Since I am forgotten by you, sweet friend,

I say farewell to joy and a life of love.

Ill-fated was the day I placed my love in you,

Since i am forgotten by you, sweet friend.

But what i have promised you I will maintain,

Which is that is that I shall never have any other lover.

Since I am forgotten by you, sweet friend.

I say farewell to joy and a life of love

[charmander4533]

Wow, i'm here for my music appreciation class and these are awesome comments.

[NikiBabyDoll]

@charmander4533 hahaha same here!

[johnwaynepresley]

poor 60 year old guy just couldn't have his 19 year old girlfriend...

[meffect]

Amazing!!! I can't neither stop listening to the song nor stop gazing at this great painting!

[NCHAMMER0924]

Omg this song is so chillingly great. lol Love it

[hakanturut]

touches so deeply,

[Arrow9100kj]

0.0.....This is amazing!!!! This genre sounds so haunting!!!! Those dissonant cadences are splendid!

[EzTarget896]

ha i guess im not the only studying this for music appreciation. pccc anyone?

[Kighla]

This is a secular chanson, and is polyphonic.

[VigilantNinja0x7]

I used to dislike frenchies :P. Machaut has won my heart though. I love this piece

[mbaird2009]

This is actually not a polyphonic chant it is organum which was basically the step between monophonic and polyphonic. 1300 paintings did have perspective only it was 2 point perspective in reverse.

[VigilantNinja0x7]

@mbaird2009 Not only is this a chanson, it's polyphonic. And so are organums, they are the first examples of polyphonic music in the middle ages, aren't they?

[gymnastgirlflips]

So this is secular?

[sefander74]

@gymnastgirlflips Yes, this is a song lamenting a lost love. The title translates "Since I am forgotten" - the last line is "I say farewell to joy and a life of love."

Doesn't work very well as a sacred piece... =)

[FM897]

@gymnastgirlflips Yes. It's about heartbreak.

[ArizzleProductions]

This song needs to be longer....

[gymnastgirlflips]

I knew that painting wasn't from the Middle Ages! Hah! It has waaay too much perspective. Funny- one of the few things I learned in my music appreciation class was about art and not music... hmm. I need a refund.

[PancakesoftheLove]

Polyphony from the 1300s...

Stunning.

[FortQuestKnowledge]

This song is so beautiful to me, I kno i'm about 700 years out of date, but man its beautiful.

[shmuelk1]

does anyone know the name of this painting?

[wowbringer]

I need to take Music Appreciation class... I love choral and Renaissance Music

[AryaV]

What is the name of this painting? It's haunting...

[bubblykings]

@AryaV

This is "Philosopher in Meditation" (1632) by Rembrandt. :)

[xwhEdward]

@AryaV  The painting is Rembrandt's meditation, you can find it on google:)

[BAMFJane]

i wish it was longer so i dont have to press the play button every 2 min! >:O

[victordelacrow]

Beautifull :)

[AzemOcram]

This is certainly homophonic. There is one main melody with 2 supporting harmonies (very quiet).

[MistaMadara]

@AzemOcram wtf no this is polyphonic. Go study ur history then come back. noob =_=

[AzemOcram]

@MistaMadara

The voices fulfill the roles of 2 drones. Drones always make a song homophonic. At least we can agree that this is certainly NOT monophonic.

[nmvaladanzouj]

I studied this song in my music appreciation class, and I just can't get enough of it! I am an opera singer, and this particular version sung by Jeremy Summerly makes me fall in love with music all over again.

[alexilmagnifico]

was this composed/written during or a little after the black death?

[swampagIsCool]

@alexilmagnifico

i think it was written around that time...XD

[TheLonelyImmortal]

That picture rocks :)

[socalbuds]

listening to this song baked takes it to a whole notha level

[swampagIsCool]

omg!! I listened to this cuz this is on my music exam this may!! :D lol ;0

[liam657]

this is on my test tomorrow :(

[swampagIsCool]

@liam657

mine's in may...good luck on yours. :)

[BossCrib]

deep

[ElleMuzik]

amazing :)

my brother sang this at his college with his friends in his choir class.

i love love love this

[Ainulph]

I recently listened to this composition in my music appreciation class. I have to say, this is by far the saddest song I know.

[detrimentalD]

I also listened to this song in my music history class. it is sad but it is also my favorite of Machaut

[BackwardMarathon]

Win, needs a techno remix for extra winsauce.

[123JoeD456]

No it doesn't.

[Lawyer2Junkie]

Looks like someone had a music appreciation class and got bored =p

[kanistra69]

@Lawyer2Junkie haha, thats what im learning in "music appretiation now" =)

thats a beautiful tune though :)

[tjvhigh09]

@Lawyer2Junkie actually i have to find examples of music for music appreciation class haha

[FM897]

@Lawyer2Junkie LOL my music appreciation class was the first and only place I've ever heard this song. I happen to think it's quite beautiful. I read the lyrics (in English). It's about the pain of having to let go of someone you deeply love if they stop loving you, and bidding farewell to the life that you could have had with that person. I think the melody really conveys the abysmal, dark feeling of heartbreak.

[tinisi]

@Lawyer2Junkie omg you hit the nail right on the head! fml!

[tiamc06]

TMC-Medieval Period. I really enjoy this song although the voice is a little deep compared to some of the other songs we have listened to in class.

[MsPoemas]

so beautyfull,a masterpiece in the classic

[kashgarinn]

translation floating around on the internet:

Since I am forgotten by you, sweet friend,

I bid farewell to a life of love and joy.

Unlucky was the day I placed my love in you;

Since I am forgotten by you, sweet friend.

But what was promised you I will sustain:

That I shall never have any other love.

Since I am forgotten by you, sweet friend,

I bid farewell to a life of love and joy.

[KonrathEmpireBCP]

i can't stop listening to it

[millencolinman]

Of all the chants I've heard, this one is more exciting to listen to. It's amazing what multiple lines can do. Thanks for the post.

[ironjones]

Now listen, I know you're intelligent. I mean, anyone who listens to chant is very intelligent. But OH! Wait a minute! it's not a damn chant!

It makes me almost terrified to know that dolts like you are living on this Earth.

Oh yeah, byt the way, it's a chanson.

[guth2391]

@millencolinman This isn't a chant, its a Chanson.

[AlwaysBeMyThunder21]

I've had to learn about this song in a classical music class I'm taking and I really like it! it's so peaceful

[drummergurl1589]

beautiful! Very peaceful! ahh :)

[AzemOcram]

@drummergurl1589 It is supposed to be sad, not peaceful. This song is about how he has been forgotten by his one true love.

[BurningEmber]

This song was a part of our Music 100 course in College; I absolutely adored it, and I'm glad it's on youtube so I can share it with people. Thank you! <3

[FM897]

I'm taking music appreciation right now and I love this song too! The melody and lyrics express the feeling of unrequited love so exquisitely.

[millencolinman]

When you make comments on music, it doesn't make a difference how many syllables are in the adjectives you use.

[FM897]

Wow. I don't choose certain adjectives over others based on how many syllables they have. I choose adjectives based on how well they convey the point that I'm trying to get across.

[ironjones]

You should choose certain adjective over others based on how many syllables they have.

[synballein70]

Splendido!

[szilvavirag]

Beautiful, beautiful.

[Alicia7777777]

Impressive music! 5*, of course. Thank you dearest Kitty!