at 9 14 of part 2 he uses Joel 2 31 to show the Day of Lord coming after the sun/moon disaster, however if you do a word study on the word 'before' you will find the proper way to read this would be, at the time of the great and terrible day of the Lord the sun shall be turned into darkness and the moon into blood. Don't take my word for it do your own word study. It is similar to coming before someone, such as coming into there presence. (Example) Mary came before the King
i hold 9issue with much that u say.u dont give biblical support for the 24 elders being raptured b4 the 70th week.u dont givr biblical support for the prophets being enoch and elijah.ur reconing that the 4 beasts are not angelic is weak and much more than that i find to be ur assumptions.also,the 144,000 of rev7 can not be considered 1st fruits being that they are sealed AFTER the rapture.and the 144,000 that are 1st fruits in rev14 are a group other than that of 7.
..The Pre-Wrath Rapture, although intentionally good, as it tries to highlight the false teaching of "Pre-Trib", is nonetheless a "flawed" concept based on the 'synthesis' of the existing three positions; i.e. "pre", "mid", and "post-trib", which all three advocate a "singular Rapture" of all saints at one time. This is Not bilically correct ! As teh scriptures teach "seven different" and distinct "orders" to the "first Resurrection". I am a missionary/Bible prophecy teacher, in ministry...
....since 1963. My name is Morgan Sorensen, you can find me on 'google' just enter my name. My book, "None Dare Call It Deception" (copyright 1984, but only recently self published) is available on my website. Have Pastor Sawyer contact me, if He honestly is seeking the truth about this issue !!!
@sorens70601 but there is only one world wide church rapture.the prewrath position doesnt deny the order of the resurection/rapture(Christ the first fruits)and so on,or the raptures of enoch,elijah,or the 2 prophets ,but the subject of the entire church rapture is the subject at hand and i think thats obvious.if i have u wrong on this,u have this entire page and all the time u want to comment.why not elaborate?also the pre wrath position is not "trying to highlight flaws",but expose truth.
@prewrathrapture333 ....Well first of all, the "two prophets", you refer to, are Enoch and Elijah ! Next, Christ was not the "firstfruits",(Plural) but rather the "first" of the "Firstfruits". The rest of the "Firstfruits" that were resurrected on the same Feast day of "firstfruits", that Christ was resurrected, you read about in Mt.27:52-53, and you will find them on the "welcoming comitee" when the next order of "firstfruits",(the "24 Elders" ) are resurrected , just before the 70th week ...
....of Dan.9:27. Here they are seen in Rev.4, as the "four living creatures". Now Stop, before you begin attacking with typical modern theological rhetoric, and read Rev.5:8-10, and you will discover, that these "4 living creatures", are Not Angelic beings, as they testify together with the "24 Elders" that they are REDEEMED from the Earth, from every Tribe, Nation, Tongue, and People !! (Here you have already two separate "firstfruit orders" outside of Christ, resurrected to Heaven, at ....
....at two different intervals of time, spanning almost 2000 years, all of it part of the same "spiritual growing season", the dispensation of Grace). What most scholars miss, is that the outline for the first resurrection is clearly laid out in 1. Cor.15:22-23, "But every Man in His own order",(this clearly expresses different "orders" to teh "First resurrection". Next, Christ, as a singular entity, could Not fulfill the feast of "firstfruits (Lev. 23:9-14) as the "multiple headed" sheaf ...
...of Barley, which makes it clear that the words in verse 23 , "the firstfruits"(plural) following the word "Christ", cannot refer to Christ, but rather a separate "plurality of firstfruits" that were to follow.As I have already mentioned two of these, the third "firstfruit" order, is the 144,000, (the "Manchild" of Rev.12, and Isa 66:7-8)
These are "sealed" in Rev 7, "resurrected in Rev.12, and seen in Heaven,( before the end of the tribulation period) in Rev. 14:1-4, and they are ....
...speciffically referred to in this passage, as "being 'firstfruits' to God and to the Lamb". Thanks for your invite to explain it all, but you can read it in my book, as I am not up to writing 200 pages on this limited 500 word forum. But I can assure you that there is not a theologian alive , that can refute the proper "harmonized" bible account of the doctrine of the first resurrection, as I present it. Of more importance, is for me to have debate/dialogue with those who have "broken....
....rank" with the "Pre-trib" Lie, (which cannot be substantiated by any scripture whatsoever) Fact is, the Bible teaches SEVEN distinct and DIFFERENT "orders" to the " first resurrection", and any "singular rapture" theory, whether Pre-Mid-post-trib, or Pre-wrath, is a gross violation of scriptural truth, and falsehood. So my endeavour is to get together with those of the "Pre-wrath camp", who are willing to have dialogue on the issue. I have contacted Dr. Cooper, and am awaiting response.
prewrathrapture333....I forgot to mention, that it is only 'after' all the "firstfruits",(all three orders of them) have been resurrected, that Paul in 1.Cor.15:23, declares ; "Afterwards they that are Christ's at his coming". Notice the sequence of events, Christ is resurrected in 31 A.D. on the feast of "firstfruits", and on the same day "the graves that opened" while Christ was yet on the cross, "come out of the graves, and are resurrected to Heaven 40 days later, when Christ ascends ....
...to Heaven, the next order of "firstfruits" are the "Hinderer" of 2.Thess.2:7, which when removed, allow the Man of sin to be revealed, then the 144,000 "firstfruits" are resurrected, in the "Middle of the week", and we enter into the Great tribulation (of 42 months) Then we have the "first of the Harvest"(Rev 7:9-17) and at the end of the Great tribulation, Christ returns for the Battle of Armageddon, on the "last day" of this eveil age, which begins at "sunset" the day before, and ....
...resurrects the "Martyrs",(Rev.20:4, and the main "Harvest of the Earht",Rev.14:14-16, 15:2-4) This follows Jesus's own words in Jn.6:39,40,44,54. etc. "I will raise Him up on the Last day". This refers to teh "last day" of this "present evil age" . (as scripture only discusses two ages; this "present evil age", and "the age to come") That is the bilbical premise, and why it becomes important to warn those "hoodwinked" by the
@sorens70601 i hold 9issue with much that u say.u dont give biblical support for the 24 elders being raptured b4 the 70th week.u dont givr biblical support for the prophets being enoch and elijah.ur reconing that the 4 beasts are not angelic is weak and much more than that i find to be ur assumptions.also,the 144,000 of rev7 can not be considered 1st fruits being that they are sealed AFTER the rapture.and the 144,000 that are 1st fruits in rev14 are a group other than that of 7.
@sorens70601 i was just curious to see if u had anything solid that i could consider.sorry to see u dont.just more assumption.im bored and way too buisy to respond to every point.if u make a point in the future that i find to be substenative,then i will respond.but i dont have time to chase every rabbit that people turn loose on me.i literally have dozens upon dozens of responses to all my vids.i have 4 kids and work 6 days a week.sorry if i cant address everything.simply too much assumption.
@prewrathrapture333 ...I can apreciate that you are very busy, However, I am obliged to respond to your faulty assertion about there being "Two groups" of 144,000, as there is but one such group. Understandebly, all this information cannot be presented in this limited space,(But you could get a copy of my 200 page book,"None Dare Call It Deception", and discover the truth for yourself. When you say that the 144,000 are sealed "after the Rapture", my question is 'What Rapture ?" Are you...
...suggesting a "Pre-trib" rapture ? (I thought this was a "Pre-Wrath" site ) As for the support for the resurrection of the "24 Elders", you find that in Rev.4:1-6 , 2.Thess2:7, 1.Cor 15 :23, etc. The "24 elders" and the "4 living creatures", testify in Rev.5:8-10, that they are "redeemed" from every Tribe , Tongue, Nation and People, (which means the "4 living creature" are Not Angelic beings, but represent redeemed people)
We find all three the firstfruits in Rev.14:1-4, which includes..
...the 144,000, and no other, or second group of 144,000 is ever mentioned in the book of Revelation. The "sealing of the 144,000, is discussed in Ezek.9:1-6, their literal "resurrection" is discussed in Daniel 12, as well as in Rev.12:1-5, and Isa.66:7-8 (as the Man child) These facts are discussed all over the scriptures, you just need to Know where to Look. As for Enoch and Elijah, They are the only Two people who have been removed from the Earth, without death.
The Lords ability to protect His people during the short period of the wrath of God does not necessarily require us to be removed. Too many scriptures tells us that we are to enter into our chambers and that we will see a 1000 to our left and 10,000 to our right fall, but it will not come near us. I agree with what this man says because He is reading it not creating it from a position of a presupposition of poatmodern christian teaching. great post!
at 9 14 of part 2 he uses Joel 2 31 to show the Day of Lord coming after the sun/moon disaster, however if you do a word study on the word 'before' you will find the proper way to read this would be, at the time of the great and terrible day of the Lord the sun shall be turned into darkness and the moon into blood. Don't take my word for it do your own word study. It is similar to coming before someone, such as coming into there presence. (Example) Mary came before the King
blynch47 2 months ago
i hold 9issue with much that u say.u dont give biblical support for the 24 elders being raptured b4 the 70th week.u dont givr biblical support for the prophets being enoch and elijah.ur reconing that the 4 beasts are not angelic is weak and much more than that i find to be ur assumptions.also,the 144,000 of rev7 can not be considered 1st fruits being that they are sealed AFTER the rapture.and the 144,000 that are 1st fruits in rev14 are a group other than that of 7.
prewrathrapture333 3 months ago
Great video! I totally agree.
The pre tribulation rapture is real, according to the Word of God. Amen.
John 8:32 "And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free".
paulojose1955 4 months ago
@paulojose1955 WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?THIS VID IS AGAINST THE PRE TRIB RAPTURE THEORY.IT IS A POST TRIB RAPTURE.DID U EVEN WATCH?
prewrathrapture333 4 months ago
..The Pre-Wrath Rapture, although intentionally good, as it tries to highlight the false teaching of "Pre-Trib", is nonetheless a "flawed" concept based on the 'synthesis' of the existing three positions; i.e. "pre", "mid", and "post-trib", which all three advocate a "singular Rapture" of all saints at one time. This is Not bilically correct ! As teh scriptures teach "seven different" and distinct "orders" to the "first Resurrection". I am a missionary/Bible prophecy teacher, in ministry...
sorens70601 3 months ago
....since 1963. My name is Morgan Sorensen, you can find me on 'google' just enter my name. My book, "None Dare Call It Deception" (copyright 1984, but only recently self published) is available on my website. Have Pastor Sawyer contact me, if He honestly is seeking the truth about this issue !!!
sorens70601 3 months ago
@sorens70601 but there is only one world wide church rapture.the prewrath position doesnt deny the order of the resurection/rapture(Christ the first fruits)and so on,or the raptures of enoch,elijah,or the 2 prophets ,but the subject of the entire church rapture is the subject at hand and i think thats obvious.if i have u wrong on this,u have this entire page and all the time u want to comment.why not elaborate?also the pre wrath position is not "trying to highlight flaws",but expose truth.
prewrathrapture333 3 months ago
@prewrathrapture333 ....Well first of all, the "two prophets", you refer to, are Enoch and Elijah ! Next, Christ was not the "firstfruits",(Plural) but rather the "first" of the "Firstfruits". The rest of the "Firstfruits" that were resurrected on the same Feast day of "firstfruits", that Christ was resurrected, you read about in Mt.27:52-53, and you will find them on the "welcoming comitee" when the next order of "firstfruits",(the "24 Elders" ) are resurrected , just before the 70th week ...
sorens70601 3 months ago
....of Dan.9:27. Here they are seen in Rev.4, as the "four living creatures". Now Stop, before you begin attacking with typical modern theological rhetoric, and read Rev.5:8-10, and you will discover, that these "4 living creatures", are Not Angelic beings, as they testify together with the "24 Elders" that they are REDEEMED from the Earth, from every Tribe, Nation, Tongue, and People !! (Here you have already two separate "firstfruit orders" outside of Christ, resurrected to Heaven, at ....
sorens70601 3 months ago
....at two different intervals of time, spanning almost 2000 years, all of it part of the same "spiritual growing season", the dispensation of Grace). What most scholars miss, is that the outline for the first resurrection is clearly laid out in 1. Cor.15:22-23, "But every Man in His own order",(this clearly expresses different "orders" to teh "First resurrection". Next, Christ, as a singular entity, could Not fulfill the feast of "firstfruits (Lev. 23:9-14) as the "multiple headed" sheaf ...
sorens70601 3 months ago
...of Barley, which makes it clear that the words in verse 23 , "the firstfruits"(plural) following the word "Christ", cannot refer to Christ, but rather a separate "plurality of firstfruits" that were to follow.As I have already mentioned two of these, the third "firstfruit" order, is the 144,000, (the "Manchild" of Rev.12, and Isa 66:7-8)
These are "sealed" in Rev 7, "resurrected in Rev.12, and seen in Heaven,( before the end of the tribulation period) in Rev. 14:1-4, and they are ....
sorens70601 3 months ago
...speciffically referred to in this passage, as "being 'firstfruits' to God and to the Lamb". Thanks for your invite to explain it all, but you can read it in my book, as I am not up to writing 200 pages on this limited 500 word forum. But I can assure you that there is not a theologian alive , that can refute the proper "harmonized" bible account of the doctrine of the first resurrection, as I present it. Of more importance, is for me to have debate/dialogue with those who have "broken....
sorens70601 3 months ago
....rank" with the "Pre-trib" Lie, (which cannot be substantiated by any scripture whatsoever) Fact is, the Bible teaches SEVEN distinct and DIFFERENT "orders" to the " first resurrection", and any "singular rapture" theory, whether Pre-Mid-post-trib, or Pre-wrath, is a gross violation of scriptural truth, and falsehood. So my endeavour is to get together with those of the "Pre-wrath camp", who are willing to have dialogue on the issue. I have contacted Dr. Cooper, and am awaiting response.
sorens70601 3 months ago
prewrathrapture333....I forgot to mention, that it is only 'after' all the "firstfruits",(all three orders of them) have been resurrected, that Paul in 1.Cor.15:23, declares ; "Afterwards they that are Christ's at his coming". Notice the sequence of events, Christ is resurrected in 31 A.D. on the feast of "firstfruits", and on the same day "the graves that opened" while Christ was yet on the cross, "come out of the graves, and are resurrected to Heaven 40 days later, when Christ ascends ....
sorens70601 3 months ago
...to Heaven, the next order of "firstfruits" are the "Hinderer" of 2.Thess.2:7, which when removed, allow the Man of sin to be revealed, then the 144,000 "firstfruits" are resurrected, in the "Middle of the week", and we enter into the Great tribulation (of 42 months) Then we have the "first of the Harvest"(Rev 7:9-17) and at the end of the Great tribulation, Christ returns for the Battle of Armageddon, on the "last day" of this eveil age, which begins at "sunset" the day before, and ....
sorens70601 3 months ago
...resurrects the "Martyrs",(Rev.20:4, and the main "Harvest of the Earht",Rev.14:14-16, 15:2-4) This follows Jesus's own words in Jn.6:39,40,44,54. etc. "I will raise Him up on the Last day". This refers to teh "last day" of this "present evil age" . (as scripture only discusses two ages; this "present evil age", and "the age to come") That is the bilbical premise, and why it becomes important to warn those "hoodwinked" by the
" Pre-trib" fraud, to get themselves prepared.
sorens70601 3 months ago
@sorens70601 i hold 9issue with much that u say.u dont give biblical support for the 24 elders being raptured b4 the 70th week.u dont givr biblical support for the prophets being enoch and elijah.ur reconing that the 4 beasts are not angelic is weak and much more than that i find to be ur assumptions.also,the 144,000 of rev7 can not be considered 1st fruits being that they are sealed AFTER the rapture.and the 144,000 that are 1st fruits in rev14 are a group other than that of 7.
prewrathrapture333 3 months ago
@sorens70601 i was just curious to see if u had anything solid that i could consider.sorry to see u dont.just more assumption.im bored and way too buisy to respond to every point.if u make a point in the future that i find to be substenative,then i will respond.but i dont have time to chase every rabbit that people turn loose on me.i literally have dozens upon dozens of responses to all my vids.i have 4 kids and work 6 days a week.sorry if i cant address everything.simply too much assumption.
prewrathrapture333 3 months ago
@prewrathrapture333 ...I can apreciate that you are very busy, However, I am obliged to respond to your faulty assertion about there being "Two groups" of 144,000, as there is but one such group. Understandebly, all this information cannot be presented in this limited space,(But you could get a copy of my 200 page book,"None Dare Call It Deception", and discover the truth for yourself. When you say that the 144,000 are sealed "after the Rapture", my question is 'What Rapture ?" Are you...
sorens70601 3 months ago
...suggesting a "Pre-trib" rapture ? (I thought this was a "Pre-Wrath" site ) As for the support for the resurrection of the "24 Elders", you find that in Rev.4:1-6 , 2.Thess2:7, 1.Cor 15 :23, etc. The "24 elders" and the "4 living creatures", testify in Rev.5:8-10, that they are "redeemed" from every Tribe , Tongue, Nation and People, (which means the "4 living creature" are Not Angelic beings, but represent redeemed people)
We find all three the firstfruits in Rev.14:1-4, which includes..
sorens70601 3 months ago
...the 144,000, and no other, or second group of 144,000 is ever mentioned in the book of Revelation. The "sealing of the 144,000, is discussed in Ezek.9:1-6, their literal "resurrection" is discussed in Daniel 12, as well as in Rev.12:1-5, and Isa.66:7-8 (as the Man child) These facts are discussed all over the scriptures, you just need to Know where to Look. As for Enoch and Elijah, They are the only Two people who have been removed from the Earth, without death.
sorens70601 3 months ago
See Feasts Of the Lord.Net in support of Pre Wrath rapture
ILJ4eTD 5 months ago
The Lords ability to protect His people during the short period of the wrath of God does not necessarily require us to be removed. Too many scriptures tells us that we are to enter into our chambers and that we will see a 1000 to our left and 10,000 to our right fall, but it will not come near us. I agree with what this man says because He is reading it not creating it from a position of a presupposition of poatmodern christian teaching. great post!
goldmakers 10 months ago
The Lord has His People and they read His Word, and believe it.
goldmakers 10 months ago