good news

[ItsFilthy]

It's official...I am all caught up. You make awesome videos. It has been an absolute pleasure. Thank you.

[wasy35]

is the dollar dying? no but all my money is in dollars....nooooooo

[pennilesscripple]

there there wasy

you'll survive

contrary to popular belief,

survival is not dependent on money

[wasy35]

according to whom...what am i gonna start hunting my food in san fran. i think not...

[pennilesscripple]

according to the fact that human beings survived for 99% of their existence without money. if the system has you believing your actual survival as a human being is dependent on money, you're trapped. you'd be surprised--there are people in your city who have very little money and survive. there are people in urban environments who getting together and buying an old parking lot, tearing up the asphalt, and planting a community garden. that's a start.

[pennilesscripple]

*who are

[DEATHINKING]

finally they have joined forces....2 false entities.....the olive garden & the nyse

[pennilesscripple]

haHA i was wondering if anyone was going to remark on that

figures it would be you

[lapislazuline]

Yes,but it,s not those slick f**kers

on the vid who,re going to feel the pinch,

they,ve made a bundle out of selling

worthless sub-prime mortgages and now

they,ll just bale.

[pennilesscripple]

yeah i guess i don't see any aspect of it as 'tragedy' on any level when a machine that is destroying the planet slows down--i'd prefer to see it stop altogether, but we look for good news where we can find it

[lapislazuline]

For petes sake penn i love you, you,ve

got your head screwed on correctly but those

motherf**ckers engineer this this sort of

bullshit just so they can f**k us over even

more you just see.

[pennilesscripple]

oh lapis believe me i have no respect for the worms...i see it...the ethics we saw in the enron story are the order of the day..."fuck the grandmothers and their pensions, i'm cashing in." i'm just taking a broader, more holistic perspective...in the long run, in the big picture, it's not a tragedy, it's a much-needed turn for the better. for individuals, yes, it can be devastating.

[lapislazuline]

Well i thnk the writings on the wall here, they,re just itching for war.

[pennilesscripple]

yeah i always think of the CEO in "the corporation" who looked at his business plan and said "someday what i do will be against the law"

[popsuckits]

The homeowners who falsified information and bought more house than they could reasonably afford need to take the blame as well. Speculating on double digit growth is a dangerous proposition. Why should I help bail someone out who spent more that they could afford...

[lapislazuline]

popsuckits you are a heartless bugger

[pennilesscripple]

he just listens to the propaganda. that's the main meme floating around in the media about these matters. the very well-received notion of "every man for himself" is at the core of our current troubles, but it's at the foundation of industrial civilization, so what can we expect? other cultures aren't like this (see dnhooligan's latest video in my favorites...he puts it very well)

[lapislazuline]

Right, then i shall look

[FunToRelate]

aren't we generally always out for ourselves? aren't we programmed to protect self and maybe a small tribe or clan.

[pennilesscripple]

"programmed" to be greedy and selfish yes, fun, but not genetically--programmed by this culture that values power and profit over life and relationship. but cultures that value life and relationship over power and profit a. don't destroy their ecosystem (or others' ecosystems) and b. don't allow/encourage greed. so no, not generally. generally perhaps it could be said we protect our land and our loved ones.

[popsuckits]

You think so...

[lapislazuline]

What do you think popsuckits?

[popsuckits]

Often...

[lapislazuline]

You think this is just hilarious don,t you

popsuckit! Well i don,t, people being thrown out on the street because they,ve been stitched up by a guy in suit is a long

way from funny!

[popsuckits]

I find no Humor or make light of the situation... I find both sides at fault.... Greed and a culture of Debt are to both to blame... Take personal responsibility... A McMansion is not a right in "The Pursuit of Happiness" as laid out in the Constitution... But if we are scrapping the system does it really matter?

[popsuckits]

Heartless no... fair always....

[popsuckits]

Bulls and Bears money to be had either way... Don't follow, find the gems...

[pennilesscripple]

i'm sorry pop...i don't really understand what you are saying here....

[popsuckits]

Don't chase the herd when dealing with money. If the "Media" say's buy it's too late. When markets fall, big money is made.

[pennilesscripple]

oh okay i see

well this video wasn't about how to cash in...it was more of a celebration and dream that the cash economy will crash altogether. it would be the best thing that could happen for our planet.

[popsuckits]

I knew what you were saying...An economic crash with out a population crash would do more harm than good...

[pennilesscripple]

to who or what? again, i'm not sure what you are saying (i've misplaced my popsuckits decoder ring this morning) ;^)

[popsuckits]

If the economic systems fail and we maintain the current population levels of population the effects on the environment would be devastating. Take N. Korea as an example, there are no longer pigeons in the cities because hungry people at them all. Deforestation would increase, animal populations would crash due to the demand for food... Not to mention the toxic smoke from thousands of cities a blaze...

[pennilesscripple]

okay so your future scenario seems to be based on a concept of human beings as unable to work things out and support each other...the 'every man for himself' meme. i hold that humanity is not like that. and we need to stop the machine. population is and always has been a function of food production--overpopulation is tied to overproduction. it would level out in time. your argument also ignores the widespread hunger and poverty that people face *today* due to the wage economy.

[pennilesscripple]

not to mention the widespread devastation to the inhabitants of this planet who have no words....

[popsuckits]

Major cities would not look like war zones if there was a complete collapse of the economic systems. How would food supplies get to the areas of famine if there were a collapse. I agree that populations would rapidly decrease but so would the animal populations due to the immediate need for food...

[popsuckits]

Grocery stores only carry about a week or two of food, what happens next? Are you ready?

[pennilesscripple]

i don't take a "what about me?" perspective on these matters, as it's not about me. rather i ask, "what about humanity? what about the birds, trees, oceans, rivers, mountains, animals, fish, reptiles, and amphibians?"

and yes i am blessed to be more ready than most. the end of grocery stores would be good news in my book.

[pennilesscripple]

again your scenario is based on a concept of human beings that i don't ascribe to. people will find a way. famine is created by industrial civilization, so dismantling it will, in the long run, put an end to a lot of the horrors you envision. and food supplies don't get to areas of famine right now, for that matter.

[popsuckits]

It is the best thing for the planet but it would be a hard transition.... The Earth will survive wether or not we do is the question...

[pennilesscripple]

that point is a common distraction...i'm not concerned about the survival of the earth as a planetary body. i am, however, concerned about the survival of the 200 species a day we are losing. it is our responsibility to them to stop the harm immediately. consider that the transition just might surprise people with how wonderful it actually is...the current system of industrial civilization is *awash* in suffering...ending it would be *good news*

[popsuckits]

;^)

[NumberPhi]

I think what he is saying is..WHile your idea of overall betterment is a good notion the immediate effect of an economical crash would be far worse for the planet and its species. As us humans would seek ways to sustain our life far faster then the "planet" could repopulate. I.E. more then 200 species would parish as we fight and struggle for food..Theres 6 billion of us, abolishing money=survival is is impossible. Slowly weening it out would be the only way.

[pennilesscripple]

far worse than the cataclysmic destruction we are experiencing now? the machine of industrial civilization is destroying/consuming the planet, and it needs to be stopped--then things will begin to be much *better* for all concerned. again, you and pop hold to a notion of humanity that i don't hold to.

[NumberPhi]

is it that you don't care about the masses? are you self concerned only? or are you concerned with humanity as an entity? as in humanity will survive?

[pennilesscripple]

pretty sure i said somewhere earlier it has nothing to do with me. what i say comes from my great *love of and care for* human beings. there are millions of human beings suffering *terribly* right now as a result of living under industrial civilization. human beings make up humanity. i am concerned about both.

[pennilesscripple]

yeah look at my responses to pops' "grocery store" comment for more clarity on that....

[pennilesscripple]

and it is not impossible--people have lived without money being linked to survival for 99% of human existence, and many still do. slowly wean, fine, whatever. end it. and there is no 'only way.' there are many ways. i appreciate your interest in this conversation, numberphi.

[not2tees]

The Stockmarkets do so well, they actually get drunk on their own success and think they can't go wrong, and then oh boy. This year could bring some "interesting" Wall Street news, hmn?

[MotoRooter]

The hangover of reality will set in on Wall Street. This hangover is going to be a doozy!

It will be interesting, that's an understatement!

[pennilesscripple]

is it just me, or does that footage of them clapping at the end of the day strike you as wayyyy creepy?

[FunToRelate]

They were the peeps from Darden Rest. Corp. and I think it was an anniversary of their stock listing on Friday.

[pennilesscripple]

yeah, you know them specifically? it's a custom at the closing bell for a group to applaud...i just find it a kind of creepy custom, with forced smiles and cheer...okay hooray for us we destroyed a bit more of the planet today....

[pennilesscripple]

yeah everyone says there is nothing but bad news in the media, but there is some "bad" news that i consider to be quite good.... :P

[not2tees]

Ooooo, nasty!

[pennilesscripple]

nasty? i see it as positive

i was just listening to a story on the radio today about homeless youth...one young man was showing off his possessions, and he said, "i can't have what i really need--a family--so i replace it with this junk." in tribal societies, of course there is grief when an elder dies, but there isn't homelessness, starvation, etc. industrial civilization and wage slavery is killing us in more ways than one.

[not2tees]

Yeah, we really live in one of the weirdest societies ever. But change is the unstoppable force and this society is not going to be any exception. But it's going to be tough. There was a radio show tonight about new pills they have for people who suffer side effects from other pills.

[pennilesscripple]

oh god tees check out "the medicated child" video in my favorites and the video it links to. i just finished watching them and don't know what to do with the wide array of feelings (mostly a sick frustrated rage) that they brought up

[not2tees]

On the radio show they mentioned some 4 year old girl who had died of an overdose of ritalin-type, behaviour-controlling drugs. You have to feel sick.

[fr3thinker]

Wow, the epitome of greed, the epitome of capitalism - Wall Street, The London Stock Exchange, The Paris Stock Exchange, The Frankfurt Stock Exchange, The Tokyo Stock Exchange, The.....

[kewpiesbadhairday]

when you post I find myself habitually going for a 5* rating to find ratings disabled. I respect that and i will probably do the same thing if I ever have time to post.

I like your priorities. -hope 08 is off to a good start for you.

[pennilesscripple]

aw thanks kewpie i hope the same for you

(i'd love to see you post)

[dnHooligan]

I prefer to work. Maybe someday I can figure out how to get paid without doing anything.

[pennilesscripple]

we all like to work, when the work is meaningful. i would prefer to live outside the wage economy altogether, or if that is not possible, in part. i'd like to see it possible for people to live without being tied to paychecks, and without thinking money = survival. that might be a hard concept to fathom in our current society, but it's been done before, and is being done right now....

[dnHooligan]

My dream is to be able to work, and LIVE. I'd like to do better, by being better.

I'm getting a little tired of the exploitation of people willing to work, by those who refuse.

[medicinesocks]

would you like to work in a mega-sweat american-label bluejean factory in china?? or send your child into that kind of servitude? i'm haunted by the exhausted little face, in a doc i saw, of a child in one of those hellholes after a ninety hour nonstop push to get out enough product out to cover millions of fat western asses in time for xmas. the child says- before i came here i worked in the rice paddies with my family. it was hard, but at the end of the day we could go home and rest.

[dnHooligan]

Thank you?

That's what I'm talking about.

[medicinesocks]

so explain to me why you say you're trying to figure out how to get paid for doing nothing if you love working so much? how about working for free, then? what do you really like-- work, no matter what it is, or getting paid? having a job hasn't made you morally superior to anyone, just more smug.

[dnHooligan]

I would like to feel like I'm not a slave to my paycheck. Working 6 days in order to be broke on sunday, wondering if the electric company will accept my partial payment, or disconnect me.

I never said I was superior to anyone. That comment was rude, ASSuming, and ignorant. Are you a christian? (just ASSuming)

[medicinesocks]

nope i'm a godless heathen and i practice woo woo medicine and dance counterwiddershins skyclad around the winter fires.pax, hooligan. let us assume we both misread each other's intentions. i thought you were being smug- i take that back. you thought i was rude and i apolo for giving offense. i misunderstood your wording. my hasty reading, my regrets.

[dnHooligan]

It happens all the time. I have trouble, sometimes, with saying what I want to say in 50 characters. My statements are often misunderstood.

-Ubuntu-

[GenScrewUp]

God Bless Capitolism...

[pennilesscripple]

god bless genscrewup....