Blackbox - 05 - Blaming the Pilot - Part 5 of 5

[iokazmi]

@asm6ekyu listen to this you schmuck and grow fuckin up! Airbus over reliance on computers, only the dumbest can fathom...

[cduluk]

the guy at 20 seconds couldn't have said it any better

[damith77]

I liked this in the begining but it ended with giving stupid conclusions at the end. All the disasters were in the program due to pilot errors. Air bus is trying to give more control to the computers to avoid mistakes from the pilots. At the end this video is to blame the high tech computers in new air bus planes. I guess David needs to quit live in 18th century.

[Saleemyassin]

Is there a chance that,because of on-board computers,the 9/11 events happened ?

[plasticspastic201]

airbus are shit. there is no doubt about it. the french have turned their noses up too far this time.

[Elemarth]

I will never fly on a plane that does not have a trained human in the cockpit. Ever.

[AndrossKenobi]

At first I thought that Fly-By-Wire was incredibly dangerous, but the I realised that effectively the only large commercial plane in existence that can fly with a loss of electric power is the 737, which still has cables attached to the flight controls that the pilots can use, All other aircraft use hydraulics which use electric hydraulic pumps. So a FBW plane is no more dangerous than a 747 or an airbus A310. So as long as a pilot can say 'I don't like this' and take control, I'm all for FBW.

[cantbsdave]

Not like computers... A lightning strike, or some type of electrical interference and you could lose 300-500 lives...

[md65000]

I can't imagine why any pilot would even apply for training to fly an Airbus - it's not even real flying. Well I guess if you need the job...

[Stangelycoloured]

I have flown A320s for years and with the training I had I have never once wandered what the aircraft was doing. On the occasions where the aircraft started doing things I wasn't expecting then I quickly realised it was me (the human pilot) that had incorrectly set up the aircraft. The airbus aircraft are fantastic to fly. They behave exactly like any other aircraft does when in normal situations. If you don't like it, autopilot & flight directors off and you're in a big Cessna.

[plasticspastic201]

@Stangelycoloured shut the hell up dork

[Stangelycoloured]

@plasticspastic201 OK I will. Just because you said so xx

[prnces858]

OH MY GOD!!!!!!! WHO IN THE HELL!! WOULD SAY TO GET RID OF HUMAN PILOTS ALL TOGETHER!!! ARE YOU CRAZY!!! THERE ARE SO MANY THINGS WRONG WITH THAT IDK WHAT TO EVEN SAY EXCEPT ITS THE WRONG THING TO DO!!!

[fsedano]

This is simply nosense. All FBW airbus have "alternate law" (some protections disabled) and "direct law", in which pilot overrides all automatism.

Besides, google "boeing 757 crash colombia" (American Airlines Flight 965). They wrongly programmed FMC computer and they crash in the montains. This video looks like crap boeing/american publicity. 

[faffaflunkie]

Boeing or I'm not going.

[88anson88]

i will never take a320 anymore

[faffaflunkie]

@88anson88 I was on a A320 that went "haywire" on the runway. They (the airline which will remain nameless) told us we were returning to the gate because of a malfunction in the "coffee pot". Fuck all airlines.

[McLarenMercedes]

Since this documentary was made things have changed. A lot more aircraft in the sky results in lower safety? Well, time to build lots of high speed trains. As a matter of fact France has the TGV, Spain had theirs, Italy investing on it and Germany planning their own. For shorter distances jets won't even be used. There's also the invironmental aspect. Electric trains are cleaner than jets.

[hrbear]

Isn't there a choice into A320 so the pilot can turn the systems to manual mode when he seriously thinks that the computer is mulfunctioning? I mean isn't there a swirch called "Auto - Semi manual - Manual".....?

[Sandaer]

@hrbear The A320, like any other modern Airbus jet can be flown like ANY other jet aircraft. It is the pilots who control the aircraft, NOT computers. In case of failures there can be system degradations leading to a less "automatic" scenario.

[md65000]

@Sandaer Then why did that Air France A320 (at the 1998 airshow) fly into the ground even though the pilot commanded it to climb?

[marick626]

As a pilot myself, the day pilots are no longer required in the cockpit will be my last day alive. Life without the prospect of flight is not a life worth living.

[10716971]

@marick626 Totally agree buddy

[McLarenMercedes]

@marick626

sorry to tell you this but lots of professions have come and disappeared over time. people will just have to adapt

[encinobalboa]

In Airbus planes, the pilot's joystick is on the left but most people are right handed. I want my pilot to fly with his dominant hand. A terrible flaw, IMO.

[McLarenMercedes]

@encinobalboa

what about the pilot on the right side?

[encinobalboa]

@McLarenMercedes Same thing applies. IIRC, about 1 in 8 people are left handed so chances are still high the co-pilot will be flying with his off hand. Also, I think spatial orientation and control is best with the stick centered.

[wilberswilbers]

Aren't all crashes from flying too low?

[rashidi10485]

i think all aircraft must have a cctv camera record in the black box

[JetsSuck2008]

@rashidi10485

I agree!

[masm60]

Good point. Memory and cameras are very cheap these days.

[Cococure83]

@rashidi10485 The NTSB have cockpit image recorders on their most wanted list for 2010.

[Chicken57]

Why didn't the Air Inter crew pick up on the non standard decent rate,And also noting that the A/C wasn't decelerating?

[CVKent317]

The problem with the A-320 was that it was sufficiently different from previous designs that it was difficult for older pilots to get used to. Additionally, all the safety features gave the pilot an excessive sense of security resulting in the potential for him/her to engage in actions he wouldn't have engaged in with a conventional plane

[AdamJLemon]

A320 automated system needs a "ctrl+alt+delete" option.

[DeltaEagle7700]

Meaning that if the computer does something not welcome to the pilots, the pilot can press something that can make him have full complete control of his aricraft?

[AdamJLemon]

That would be a good start, yeah.

[DeltaEagle7700]

That would be. On the bright side, The Boeing 777 is fly-by-wire. The good thing about is that the pilots can override the fly-by-wire system. On the other hand, Airbus doesn't have a fly-by-wire-override system.

[qwerty112311]

The fly by wire system is what controls the aircraft, without it, the pilots can only control the engines. On the Airbus aircraft, they have computers that do everything, with the pilot making suggestions. In a Boeing, the pilot has absolute control, with the computer just sending the signals as to what needs to move.

[DeltaEagle7700]

Exactly. But the difference is that if something goes wrong, at least the pilot can override the system and have total control of his aircraft. If there was no override system, you can fight for control and not do anything to recover.

[qwerty112311]

Absolutely, I was just clarifying what the systems are. That is one of the biggest things I don't like about Airbus aircraft.

[DeltaEagle7700]

That's one of the things I don't like either. I thought after all those accidents, they would put a fly-by-wire-override system on their Airbus.

[pete5668]

@DeltaEagle7700 That's the way it ought to be.

[DeltaEagle7700]

Exactly! It should be that way. If the computer breaks down, the pilot becomes the last line of defence!

[pete5668]

@AdamJLemon lol! I think they fixed it.

[pete5668]

dc 10 was a death coffin 10. that thing was awful.

[DeltaEagle7700]

4:42. "Air Inter was the only major airline not to install devices to warn the pilot that he was too low."

So in other words, no GPWS? If that's the case, that's a very shame excuse for a ultra-state-of-the-art aircraft.

[GCarty80]

@DeltaEagle7700

Most airlines don't fly more than 250 kts when below 10,000 feet, but Air Inter (because of fierce competition from France's ultra-fast TGV trains) often flew as fast as 350 kts at low altitude. They didn't fit their aircraft with GPWS on the grounds that there would be too many false alarms.

[leviathan94xxx]

air crashes will never dissapear because technology keeps on evolving and pilots have a hard time keeping up with new technology comes new problems

[leviathan94xxx]

why is it that pilots always forget to disengage the autopilot when the plane is fucking up ive seen every episode of aircrash investiations and it happens all the time if u dont like what youre airplane is doing then disengage the autopilot and regain manual control instead of trying to reset the autopilot while the plane is falling out of the sky disengae and theeeen reset and then re engage another thing that happens all the time is retarded passengers inflating the life jackets in the plane

[leviathan94xxx]

yeah i dont like the the joystick if u seat at the left u gotta use your left hand and that sucks for right handed people and if u seat at the right u get a weird view its like having the steering wheel at the right side of your car altough this exists it would be weird

[chinwagger12]

its would be like swapping the steering wheel of your car for a computer mouse, would feel well wrong.

[lonewolfintj]

While I agree with the basic premise that human airline pilots should not be marginalized in favor of technology, this set of videos over-states the extent to which anyone is attempting to do so, and attempts to support its positions using false and misleading statements (such as exaggerating the extent to which modern aircraft are "automated"). Grade of this video: D (use of misleading statements) Grade of series: F (use of false statements)

[DeltaEagle7700]

Even though technology may fly the plane, it will never replace the pilot.

[RedTyrian]

Looks like Airbus is having a bad end too, worse than their bad start. I would not normally comment on whether one plane is better than another, but it is becoming more and more evident that this particular make is flawed.

[VTVJM]

Please look at the statistics before posting baseless commnets. Design flaws has doomed other manufacturers much before Airbus. Just think of B737 faulty rudder control valve, DC-10 cargo door design, MD-80 elevator jack screw without any safety mechanism if a failure occurs etc etc.

[Imprezaman555]

i have to dissagree with you, I dont want to start a big airbus boeing debate however their planes very nice and extremely safe. I belive pilots should be trained differently and more theroly with the new tech in the cockpit and the new computer systems in being used redesigned so they work better with the pilot.

[astranine]

The odds are you probably won't survive a major airline crash and the 26,000 year number is suspect too.

[celticlofts]

Between the years 1983 and 2000 there were over 500 crashes in the United States alone. Of the 52,000 passengers involved 95% walked away with minor or no injuries at all. And that's from the NTSB.

[lukituchi]

Well even if Airbus had a pretty bad start, exactly as Boeing had, I think their planes are the best! Airbus is the best!

[xsatquest]

Last remarks are kinda stupid.

It states that if you board one plane a day it will be 26.000 years before you were involved in a crash and even then the odds are that you would probably survive it.

I bet that when i am 26.000 years i will NOT be able to survice ANYTHING...

[E8NOS]

airbus sucks

[United737522]

could not agree more with you!

[natalia1962]

Or cripplehawk, says Airbus A320:

"Just what do you think you're doing, Dave?" I was thinking of HAL when I scrolled down and saw your post!

[cripplehawk]

Airbus A320 computer to pilot

"I'm sorry Dave. I am afraid I cannot let you do that".

But seriously pilots should always be in control. Since computers are known to fail.

[kcy29581]

Pilots are known to fail, too. :)

[ta666ak666]

@kcy29581 Yeah, people can make mistakes, but only a computer could fuck up to the end.

[marick626]

@kcy29581

Pilots fail, Computers fail. EVERYTHING FAILS!!!

Lets face it, passengers are fucked either way. lol

[DCr556]

@kcy29581 but pilots can handle the stress more than a computers

[MrCayuga]

@cripplehawk Get your facts right. More than 60% of accidents are caused by pilot's error.

[damith77]

@cripplehawk Who feeds data to computers? Wrong data wrong instructions. Its not fault of the computer.

[Pvjinflight]

@cripplehawk Pilots are known to fail more often than computers. Anyway those pilots would have just stalled AF296 to forest if computer let them to pull up from too slow speed.

[pelagic6]

26000 years, hmmm... coincidentally that just so happens to be the amount of time it takes for the constellations to go through full precession...

[drob1980]

I agree with lectocom. I am wondering in anybody out there knows how to obtain the Black Box series on DVD. I had it on VHS but I can't find the series on DVD. If anyone can help I would be thankful.

[tjf4375]

You can buy the entire series from the producers, Darlow Smithson - very expensive though, nearly £200 last time I enquired

[mcdonnell220]

@drob1980: Just download it from here, drag it into Nero & burn your own copy. Simple.

[drob1980]

cheers mate I've already got it sorted

[gankala8]

great videos/...

[staggiboy]

The law of averages work like that, the whole point in averages is to give an average account of something, an average flight would not fly somehwere that is 10 times more likely to result in a fatality.

PS - Ive never watched this series before, it's not as good as ACI in my oppinion but it seems a bit more sinister and perhaps less biast towards Boeing. Also- If it ain't Boeing, i aint going = )

[miianwilson]

thanks for posting bjones. this is brilliant

[textthing]

Excuse me, Channel 4 man? "The odds are you'd probably survive" a major crash? Without doing a comparison, I think it would be fair to say that the survival rate in airline crashes is a statistical anomaly compared to the number of deaths.

[celticlofts]

Those odds are a little misleading. These are based on the number of aircraft in the world and the number of passengers flown. Those odd change drastically if you board an aircraft in a county that is poor or has poor safety standards.

[kddofe]

Yes, and since most of the people here probably live in the modern western countries and fly well known airlines with a fine safety records, the chance is even lower than presented in the document. It works both ways.

[lectocom]

Great -- thanks for uploading!!!