Anything delivering ordnance over our country will be shot down by missiles. Anything needed to be delivered to an enemy will be done so by missiles. YEH RIGHT!
Mountbatten stuck his oar in to shaft the TSR2 as well.
Whoa!!! Hang on a minute. Duncan Sandys was the architect of the 'White Paper' that said that in the future air defence would be based around misiles and only misiles and that aircraft were redundant. That is the starting point for many of the 1960s cancellations. He probably did more to wreck the industry than any other single politician and he was of course a conservative. I'm not saying the Laboyur government weren't spineless dicks - I just think the other lot were incompetent baffoons, too!
Who cares if the git isn't dead? For this, and for potentially being a traitor (it's not as if that's beyond the realms of possibility!), he should be outed and brought to book BEFORE death lets him off.
I'm sure to this day that Healey says 'it was nothing to do with me'! I guess the fact that as he was Defence Minister at the time, would back this claim up!!!!
Er.... because it is near the doors...! I was there the other week and they have a put a glass partition there now so it puts some ore light in the hangar. It is quite a complete aircraft as far as I know.... Why, do you know something that we don't?
cant watch anythink about the tsr2 without a tear in my eye, what spineless good for nothing idiots cancelled this project dare i say bloody traitors!!!
@1MrTurd Agree with your sentiments. It is impossible to stand in Cosford and behold the magnificience of the TSR2, which still looks extremely potent, and not feel a sense of bitter resentment towards the weak, spineless, myopic socialist oiks who scuppered this awesome machine. Undoubtedly, TSR was streets ahead of anything else out there, far superior to the Yank F-111. Had it been built, it would have made the UK a vast amount of money on the export market & shored up our industry. Shameful.
The labour government didn't kill the TSR2,(better than the F111) the yanks did, same as they did with the SR177 (better than the F104) and the Avro Arrow. (Better Than the F102/F106) We owed them for WW2 and still do to this day.
Sorry, but that just isn't true. A lot of American projects *themselves* were killed due to a misguided belief in the late 1950's that the manned fighter would end and be replaced by missiles. There was a partially true belief that the interceptor's days were over. The USA cancelled the XF-103, XF-108 and YF-12 (fighter/bomber version of SR-71) as well. All of which would have been amazing aircraft, as were the Avro Arrow and the TSR. The UK Defence White Paper of 1957 didn't help either.
@peacelover1968 We were skint (Labour again), and needed yank backing to get dosh off the IMF (again, Labour). Yanks saw the TSR2 as a more than able opponent to their F111 heap. They required total elimination of the rival TSR 2 project to gain their backing of our approach to the IMF. Thats why the TSR project was so totally destroyed. f11 won the day, but it was crap.
Well I've seen videos of the TSR 2 while it was in the air, it was kickin' ass, some problems, but you can read everything on wikipedia about it. They should build it again and make it even better :)
I lived within a stones throw of the airfield at Freckleton/Warton and saw the TSR2 fly. I can remember my father saying that HAROLD WILSON had stood in front of thousands of workers at the nearby Preston branch just days befor the election and promised the workers that if Labour won this project and their jobs would be safe. Within days of HAROLD WILSON walking into Number 10 Downing Street the TSR2 was grounded, the project was scrapped and thousands of workers lost their jobs overnight.
@digifotos WILSON Said the same with the Railways too (& we all know what happend there).
The Bastard tried to Back out of the "Concorde Programme" as well, Thankfully the Anglo-French Agreement made it the case that if we did we Still had to pay 50/50 of the Programme Costs (that was a Clause devised Deliberatly in case of such a thing, & it worked!)
The Labourite Fopp was Forced to Back down & Concorde (which has Ties to the TSR-2)
well was it the coomie labor government,or the worthless yanks that killed this plane.I dont know it had its first fkight the same year as the 111.I think it may have had A lot of the same problems,and did the U.K.have the money to pay for that kind of development on its on at that time
It was a purely political decision by a government that was corrupted by Eisenhaur. PM Diefeenbacher does not deserve his burial plot in this country. I feel he committed treason by scrapping the Arrow project
An amazing aircraft. I never really did understand the 'reasoning' of the cancellation. Something to do with the US F111? Well, we never did get the F111 either!! Or, was it that the US (on our behalf) used the UK as a giant aircraft carrier so that IT could station IT'S F111's here in the UK? Sorry if it sounds cynical but Denis Healey is a commie nyncompoop who needed his eyebrows shaving so he could see better. The traitor!
I chatted with a bloke 25yrs ago who worked on the project in the 60's. It was killed by a pro-communist Labour government. When they canned it they ordered the destruction of tools so the project couldn't be re-started. Yes, traitors.
I would have loved to have seen this aircraft fully commissioned and take part in the US redflag competitions. Who knows? It would have flown so high and so fast and with such stealth back then. We will never know unless the computer simulations are correct! This AC was a world-beater, and like many great British ideas, either gets stolen or just simply scrapped!
it looks so much simmilar in design to the arrow, they probably began trying to reproduce many of Avro canadas successes, i see they dint go just delta wing tho
The UK government at the time was run by absolute dick heads. We stole a march on the yanks in both military (TSR2) and commercial aviation (VC-10) then lost it. Is that a fookin coincidence or what? At least the legacy of the TSR is that its engines went on (in modified form) to power the Concorde.
My dad was in charge of the small team that made the wings on all the TSR2 prototypes-he personally fitted the two droopy bits at the end of the wings!The jigs and tooling were destroyed, but all the associated plans for TSR2 ,in sort of quiet defiance of the government, were not destroyed and were stored at 'The Dump' (the name for the technical drawings building)at Warton aircraft factory in Lancashire..I'd imagine they are still there.Used a bit for Tornado.
Another Labour screw-up!!!!! What an aircraft....! Let's bow to the YANKS. I think not! British engineering at its best. It would still be flying today had it not been for political pressure. An excellent aircraft....!
Yeah and that Denis Healey prick also cancelled the Hawker siddeley V/STOL transport so the MOD got the american C-130 insted and he also cancelled the Hawker siddeley P.1154 supersonic V/STOL jet only to be replaced by the american F-4 Phantom.
wasnt Britain after a loan from the international bank at the time, an org that america pretty much controlled, and so told us to destroy it or no money.
i alos believe alot of the aircraft was 'shared'wit the G/dynamics F-111 aswell as those mentioned by others.
shame but lets face it, it's not the first and certainley isnt the last time we'll shoot ourselves in the foot.
Living in Preston at the time this project was cancelled, few realised that on the election run-up Labour candidates promised it would not be cancelled. Workers were ordered to break-up 12 other airframes, cut up tooling, destroy designs in two weeks. It had already flown beyond mach 1, flying back from Bascombe, the Lightning chase aircraft couldn't keep up with it on one afterburner; engines later fitted to Concorde. If like me you saw it fly, its a deep wound that will take some healing.
went to cosford on sat for first time.touched the beast.man what did we all loose to some silly loan from the world bank and a useless flying brick,F1-11.another loss to the world of British achievement at cutting edge.
In away the Panarvis Tornado does not make scense, its a good plane but the TSR-2 would have been better by far. It was well more advanced than the Tornado, the B1-B and equal to the B1-A. All thease planes ae from the 70s and 80s this just shows how GREAT BAC where.
t5..as if to prove what a treasonous wretch he was denis healy also ordered the removal of the steam catapults from the aircraft carriers that had been converted into commando ships(hms bulwark for example)...just to make sure that no future government would reinstate them back to aircraft carriers..it makes me sick to see him being refered to as a great statesman on tv programmes...thats not how i remember him
I read recently that both India and Brazil are interested in re-developing the TSR2. The design is still sound, and the avionics of today are vastly improved. It was indeed an aircraft way ahead of its time.
Same old story isn't it! we gave Bell the All moving tailplane too and scrapped the Miles Supersonic research aircraft allowing the Bell X1 to break the Sound Barrier first!!!
Since the end of WW2 the U.S. has owned Britain, British governments have only been allowed to make domestic decisions, anything that would influence a global market or trend has been quashed or stolen. Who really broke the sound barrier? Who really invented the first electronic computer? Who stopped Concorde becoming commercially viable? Who is trying to scupper the new airbus because of its outright superiority? Who needs a friend with Kleptomania.
You have a point,Canada had to leave 1 Billion(US) on the table over a Softwood lumber dispute, even though we have one every court battle over the past ten years during which they collected 5 billion (US) on our lumber. "Got 'ta pay for that SUV somehow"
Is this the sum total of the discourse of you war pigs- you remind me of me when I was 10. And leave off Labour politicians- most of you will be begging for attantion from the NHS anytime soon- and your rightwing politicians couldn´t give a shit if you die in your own vomit under a sack somewhere.
What? Seeing the government's decisions on this matter to be at best foolhardy, and at worst treasonous does not mean that we're totally opposed to socialism. What has this got to do with "war pigs"? It's just nuts that they basically flushed a load of effort down the drain.
You sound like a political "fanboy". It's nuts to blindly like or accept every policy of or decision made by any polititian or political party.
monte...it is GENERALLY because of labour that this country has because the virually ungovernable ultra liberal shambles that it is today..instead of supporting home-grown industries they fall over themselves to look like good europeans...it was labour that ensured that the british aviation industry would never again be able to independantly develope major military projects
and conservatives under their "great" defence secutary Duncan Sandys(who was son in law to Winson Churchill),he cancelled 3 Saunders-Roe rocket planes which where looking promising for export to west Germany, a mach 3 recconisance plane built by Avro, the Bristol 188, the Vickers Wild goose swing wing plane, as well as some more plane projects.
Incuding some designs from Fairey, but he let design work for the TSR-2 go ahead after it was put into specification, "just under the net" as he put it, and also he ordered the Lightning into production, if he was minister for defence in 1965 I don't think he would have cancelled the TSR-2.
duncan sandys...if ever a man deserved the pliers and blow lamp treatment..i was down at the de havilland heritage 2 weeks ago and it was really heart breaking to see how much skill and innovation the british aircraft industry had....all done away with for short sighted economies...im not a fan of france..but at least they have maintained an independant defence industry without recourse to the americans
and I forgot to tell you that he cancelled a 'super' hunter design from Hawker aviation that could have had better performance than the Lighning, the reason why the Lightning wasn't cancelled because he said, "Unfortuantly it has gone to far to cancel"
t5...the scary thing is that history is repeating itself...the sea harrier has been retired early and the government is looking into pilotless fighters and ground attack craft..spy drones are one thing but...very reminiscent of the infamous idea that fighters wouldnt be required because guided missiles would defend britain...they never learn
The Arrow's expenditures was allowed by C.D. Howe an engineer. As an engineering student I can say that management doesn't understand us at all. Learning and proof of concept isn't supported nor is ingenious design appreciated.
If only our society would mature and act it's age, selfish folks will stop and think about LONG TERM advantages. ERTW!
The excuse of cost over runs doesn't wash. The Aircraft was cut up and passed through a 12" hoop. It's plans destroyed not shared in NATO, no parterships with the Soviets breathing down our backs? Too strange for me.
Gillhoolee, You are very right it would be nice to find out why the US government were so keen to destroy the Arrow and TSR2. Significant that most of the aerodynamicists on both programmes ended up in the US. And what about the herculean effort by the US to deny Concorde?
THe US were scared stupid by this planes capabilities and so they Strongarmed the UK Primi Minister (Harold Wilson) into cancelling the project. Not only did the Cancel it but all the tools and jigs that had been made to take the TSR2 into production were DESTROYED!!
The US government also put extreme pressure on the Canadian Socialist Government at the same time to scrap the Arrow. And what about the Lockheed scandals, the widowmaker(F104). But no0 one went to prison in the US!
Fantastic aircraft! The last remaining airframes were sent to MOD Shoeburyness (Pigs Bay) for target practice. Bloody shame the politicians and civil servants got involved. For example; why does it take 60 unqualified civil servants to sit in a committee to determine the layout of the cockpit?
What a cracking aircraft this would have been. Years ahead of it's time, thanks to the politicians that sold out to the U.S we had to wait untill 1980's for the Tornado as the F111's were eventually cancelled when we could of had this instead.
Poor "Little Canada" was flying the "Avro Arrow" in 1958. We had an engine design that would kick the U2's arse at the same altitude.We met a similar demise, Check it out on utube.
When the U2 as proving its worth, it went over London and took a picture of the Houses of Parliament and sent it to the MOD. The RAF sent a picture straight back of the U2 taking the picture, taken from a Canberra 2000 feet above it!
Not that it matters but our Government was led by the Conservatives in 1958.A man who disliked JFK. The fact that the aircraft were destroyed as were all the plans points to something sinister.
Great video, thank-you. I'll happily name the damned Labour MPs who sold us out to the Americans; they were Roy Jenkins and Dennis Healey and they should have been sent to the Tower for treason. As you rightly say, the project was scrapped because the Americans knew the TSR2 was light years ahead of the F-111 and would damage sales. I believe the other airframes were taken to Foulness shooting range and used as targets. Utterley disgraceful!
Same Fate as the Avro Arrow which was the most advance Mach2+ Plus Canadian Fighter that did fly and was still cancelled. Amazingly shortly after they Buzzed a US Base when they where still fighting to get to mach1.
At last - the TSR2 on YT. One of the best 'planes that never was... I have a painting of it on my wall done up in modern day camo like 'what might have been'! I love walkarounds!
erm...it might have been.. its at blackpool, where it is safe, my grandad worked at RAf warton, so he may have come to own it thru that, im not sure. Worth Money? Nahh means more to me, if you had it would you sell it?
It was certainly a strange episode; with the Tornado shortly to enter service, developing the TSR.2 to completion would have been a very odd thing to do. As it turned out, the Tornado became more or less what the TSR.2 was to have been. That it was still slightly less capable than the TSR.2 had been projected to be a full fifteen years earlier says a great deal about how far advanced the TSR.2 project really was
And to say iam only 18. Shows the impact it had on people who were born after the the project. i will always love the picture of it flying i have, signed by one of the pilots, i will have to go find out who it is who signed it when i can.
Strangely, in 1981, the then Conservative government briefly looked at reviving the TSR.2 programme. This got as far as looking at possible modifications to bring it up to date (Tornado style intakes, modern electronics, extensive use of carbon fibre construction to lower the weight and so on)
got a signed picture of one of those, signed by the test pilot or someone or other. i heard the story slightly differently, in that the americans wanted to take the project over, but i prefer your story as it sounds more realistic lol
It is true. There is a book called 'The murder of the TSR2' which will tell you all about it. There was also a lot of procrastination at BAC: Meetings about meetings e.t.c.
cheers mate, i will have a look because the TSR-2 took peoples imagination like concorde did. the TSR-2 was truly out of its time and would still be one of the most feard planes of today i think
Easily! It was miles better than the F-111. So good in fact that the government even considered resurrecting the project at the end of the 70's instead of the Tornado. As usual, they chose the cheaper, inferior version...! Doh!
Dan Akaroyd (Blues Brothers Comedy) made a movie about Canada's Avro Arrow. It would be interesting if someone would compare notes on these aircraft to find out what really happened.
Awesomely fast aircraft, Australia was ready to order a whole bunch of these aircraft until they cancelled it. They ended up buying troublesome F-111 instead, which was almost a decade late and still full of problems. I'm pretty sure there is a TSR.2 at Duxford as well? or is that the same one?
The one at Duxford is different and the only other example. That aircraft has no engines/avionics fitted and is by no means complete in other ways. I think that on paper, the TSR2 could easily have reached Mach 3, although the kinetic heating of the nose/cockpit glazing would have precluded this.
Anything delivering ordnance over our country will be shot down by missiles. Anything needed to be delivered to an enemy will be done so by missiles. YEH RIGHT!
Mountbatten stuck his oar in to shaft the TSR2 as well.
This country is great, DESPITE turds like this
stubbostubbs 10 months ago
Oh, you mean Dennis Healey. I`ll see him in court.
Spineless Labour wankers.
stubbostubbs 10 months ago
Fucking Yanks
SpitfireUK2 1 year ago
the labour government of 1965 ,they were dicks then,and there all dicks now!(sorry,thats as polite as i could be)
calibrervx 3 years ago
Whoa!!! Hang on a minute. Duncan Sandys was the architect of the 'White Paper' that said that in the future air defence would be based around misiles and only misiles and that aircraft were redundant. That is the starting point for many of the 1960s cancellations. He probably did more to wreck the industry than any other single politician and he was of course a conservative. I'm not saying the Laboyur government weren't spineless dicks - I just think the other lot were incompetent baffoons, too!
SAHBfan 3 years ago
All politicians are dicks.
mrrmancunian 2 years ago
Can't find an argument with you there!
gracko14 2 years ago
Oh do say who the MP is. Please!
Who cares if the git isn't dead? For this, and for potentially being a traitor (it's not as if that's beyond the realms of possibility!), he should be outed and brought to book BEFORE death lets him off.
Sorry, but I feel pretty strongly about that.
Thanks for the great vid.
ludocrat 3 years ago
I'm sure that it was that fuckwit Dennis Fucking Healey.
Cunobelinus61 3 years ago
I'm sure to this day that Healey says 'it was nothing to do with me'! I guess the fact that as he was Defence Minister at the time, would back this claim up!!!!
gracko14 2 years ago
Why Why Why did they cancel this? Just want to hate the F-111 more and more! oh and Laboughr!...
1981rocketman1981 3 years ago
.. why do u think the tsr 2 in cosford is still fully intact , and right by the hangar doors . ? :D i will leave you to think on that one :D
kat743 3 years ago
Er.... because it is near the doors...! I was there the other week and they have a put a glass partition there now so it puts some ore light in the hangar. It is quite a complete aircraft as far as I know.... Why, do you know something that we don't?
lightning1975 3 years ago
Both surviving TSR-2's never flew, the only flying one was used as a shooting target.
The surviving ones have had much of their internal works destroyed and any that may be on display is either a mock up or a redundant part.
qwertdr 3 years ago
cant watch anythink about the tsr2 without a tear in my eye, what spineless good for nothing idiots cancelled this project dare i say bloody traitors!!!
1MrTurd 3 years ago 7
@1MrTurd Agree with your sentiments. It is impossible to stand in Cosford and behold the magnificience of the TSR2, which still looks extremely potent, and not feel a sense of bitter resentment towards the weak, spineless, myopic socialist oiks who scuppered this awesome machine. Undoubtedly, TSR was streets ahead of anything else out there, far superior to the Yank F-111. Had it been built, it would have made the UK a vast amount of money on the export market & shored up our industry. Shameful.
LIVERPOOLSCOTTISH 3 months ago
Oh sorry, i should have said the SR177 was cancelled under a Conservative Government and the Avro Arrow was Canadian.
peacelover1968 3 years ago
The labour government didn't kill the TSR2,(better than the F111) the yanks did, same as they did with the SR177 (better than the F104) and the Avro Arrow. (Better Than the F102/F106) We owed them for WW2 and still do to this day.
peacelover1968 3 years ago 3
Sorry, but that just isn't true. A lot of American projects *themselves* were killed due to a misguided belief in the late 1950's that the manned fighter would end and be replaced by missiles. There was a partially true belief that the interceptor's days were over. The USA cancelled the XF-103, XF-108 and YF-12 (fighter/bomber version of SR-71) as well. All of which would have been amazing aircraft, as were the Avro Arrow and the TSR. The UK Defence White Paper of 1957 didn't help either.
NickB1967 3 years ago
@peacelover1968 We were skint (Labour again), and needed yank backing to get dosh off the IMF (again, Labour). Yanks saw the TSR2 as a more than able opponent to their F111 heap. They required total elimination of the rival TSR 2 project to gain their backing of our approach to the IMF. Thats why the TSR project was so totally destroyed. f11 won the day, but it was crap.
stubbostubbs 10 months ago
bad british goverment. they are a dodo bird
flanker223 3 years ago
Well I've seen videos of the TSR 2 while it was in the air, it was kickin' ass, some problems, but you can read everything on wikipedia about it. They should build it again and make it even better :)
BMuris 4 years ago
probably not gonna happen :l
manzmna 3 years ago
probably not gonna happen :l
manzmna 3 years ago
I lived within a stones throw of the airfield at Freckleton/Warton and saw the TSR2 fly. I can remember my father saying that HAROLD WILSON had stood in front of thousands of workers at the nearby Preston branch just days befor the election and promised the workers that if Labour won this project and their jobs would be safe. Within days of HAROLD WILSON walking into Number 10 Downing Street the TSR2 was grounded, the project was scrapped and thousands of workers lost their jobs overnight.
digifotos 4 years ago 7
@digifotos WILSON Said the same with the Railways too (& we all know what happend there).
The Bastard tried to Back out of the "Concorde Programme" as well, Thankfully the Anglo-French Agreement made it the case that if we did we Still had to pay 50/50 of the Programme Costs (that was a Clause devised Deliberatly in case of such a thing, & it worked!)
The Labourite Fopp was Forced to Back down & Concorde (which has Ties to the TSR-2)
Was Saved, YAY!.
You're So Lucky to have seen XR-119 Fly.
TSR1989FF 1 year ago
well was it the coomie labor government,or the worthless yanks that killed this plane.I dont know it had its first fkight the same year as the 111.I think it may have had A lot of the same problems,and did the U.K.have the money to pay for that kind of development on its on at that time
OKIEMARK 4 years ago
It was a purely political decision by a government that was corrupted by Eisenhaur. PM Diefeenbacher does not deserve his burial plot in this country. I feel he committed treason by scrapping the Arrow project
BadGirlM 4 years ago
An amazing aircraft. I never really did understand the 'reasoning' of the cancellation. Something to do with the US F111? Well, we never did get the F111 either!! Or, was it that the US (on our behalf) used the UK as a giant aircraft carrier so that IT could station IT'S F111's here in the UK? Sorry if it sounds cynical but Denis Healey is a commie nyncompoop who needed his eyebrows shaving so he could see better. The traitor!
alanhudsonesq 4 years ago
I chatted with a bloke 25yrs ago who worked on the project in the 60's. It was killed by a pro-communist Labour government. When they canned it they ordered the destruction of tools so the project couldn't be re-started. Yes, traitors.
CrepitoCornix 4 years ago
I would have loved to have seen this aircraft fully commissioned and take part in the US redflag competitions. Who knows? It would have flown so high and so fast and with such stealth back then. We will never know unless the computer simulations are correct! This AC was a world-beater, and like many great British ideas, either gets stolen or just simply scrapped!
alanhudsonesq 4 years ago
it looks so much simmilar in design to the arrow, they probably began trying to reproduce many of Avro canadas successes, i see they dint go just delta wing tho
DetonationVelocity 4 years ago
I love to see this aircraft fly.
Petrolhead1984 4 years ago
The UK government at the time was run by absolute dick heads. We stole a march on the yanks in both military (TSR2) and commercial aviation (VC-10) then lost it. Is that a fookin coincidence or what? At least the legacy of the TSR is that its engines went on (in modified form) to power the Concorde.
Neanderthalmanny 4 years ago
My dad was in charge of the small team that made the wings on all the TSR2 prototypes-he personally fitted the two droopy bits at the end of the wings!The jigs and tooling were destroyed, but all the associated plans for TSR2 ,in sort of quiet defiance of the government, were not destroyed and were stored at 'The Dump' (the name for the technical drawings building)at Warton aircraft factory in Lancashire..I'd imagine they are still there.Used a bit for Tornado.
zongo9 4 years ago
Interesting! You should put some pics on here if he has any!
lightning1975 4 years ago
Another Labour screw-up!!!!! What an aircraft....! Let's bow to the YANKS. I think not! British engineering at its best. It would still be flying today had it not been for political pressure. An excellent aircraft....!
impish07 4 years ago
try thinking the globes biggest economy-maybe not the the brightest!
terencehooper 4 years ago
Flying footage of this wonderful aircraft and it's history can be found from DD Video, including the sick making comments of Lord Dennis Healy.
cavalier080854 4 years ago
Yeah and that Denis Healey prick also cancelled the Hawker siddeley V/STOL transport so the MOD got the american C-130 insted and he also cancelled the Hawker siddeley P.1154 supersonic V/STOL jet only to be replaced by the american F-4 Phantom.
LightningT5 4 years ago
What a fantastic machine. Decades ahead of its time. performance that would outclass any American design.
50 years old, but if introduced today as a new prototype people would believe it. Set a high standard which is still used today.
Criminal to destroy the existing airframes and the plans. Decisions made by idiots cowing to the US.
Oh, it's all such a familiar nightmare.
I'm from Canada, and I understand how you feel.
currydink 4 years ago
wasnt Britain after a loan from the international bank at the time, an org that america pretty much controlled, and so told us to destroy it or no money.
i alos believe alot of the aircraft was 'shared'wit the G/dynamics F-111 aswell as those mentioned by others.
shame but lets face it, it's not the first and certainley isnt the last time we'll shoot ourselves in the foot.
Koonamatata1 4 years ago
Living in Preston at the time this project was cancelled, few realised that on the election run-up Labour candidates promised it would not be cancelled. Workers were ordered to break-up 12 other airframes, cut up tooling, destroy designs in two weeks. It had already flown beyond mach 1, flying back from Bascombe, the Lightning chase aircraft couldn't keep up with it on one afterburner; engines later fitted to Concorde. If like me you saw it fly, its a deep wound that will take some healing.
seesearch 4 years ago
went to cosford on sat for first time.touched the beast.man what did we all loose to some silly loan from the world bank and a useless flying brick,F1-11.another loss to the world of British achievement at cutting edge.
tantalumdom 4 years ago
Crazy!
tomkeys78 4 years ago
In away the Panarvis Tornado does not make scense, its a good plane but the TSR-2 would have been better by far. It was well more advanced than the Tornado, the B1-B and equal to the B1-A. All thease planes ae from the 70s and 80s this just shows how GREAT BAC where.
LightningT5 4 years ago
It was Denis Healey minister of defence in 1965 who cancelled this marvelous plane with such a protential
LightningT5 4 years ago
t5..as if to prove what a treasonous wretch he was denis healy also ordered the removal of the steam catapults from the aircraft carriers that had been converted into commando ships(hms bulwark for example)...just to make sure that no future government would reinstate them back to aircraft carriers..it makes me sick to see him being refered to as a great statesman on tv programmes...thats not how i remember him
psychosis80 4 years ago
one of the greatest potential aircraft that has ever been, and spineless politician is exactly the phrase i would use, disgusting waste!
benash04a 4 years ago
the americans ended the contract for parts and forced england to destroy the parts....because they were scared of the aircraft
englishandproud1991 4 years ago
where did you read that wilf0manion?? i dont think thats entirely true
wooly2002 4 years ago
I read recently that both India and Brazil are interested in re-developing the TSR2. The design is still sound, and the avionics of today are vastly improved. It was indeed an aircraft way ahead of its time.
wilf0manion 4 years ago
Same old story isn't it! we gave Bell the All moving tailplane too and scrapped the Miles Supersonic research aircraft allowing the Bell X1 to break the Sound Barrier first!!!
dave3663 4 years ago
Since the end of WW2 the U.S. has owned Britain, British governments have only been allowed to make domestic decisions, anything that would influence a global market or trend has been quashed or stolen. Who really broke the sound barrier? Who really invented the first electronic computer? Who stopped Concorde becoming commercially viable? Who is trying to scupper the new airbus because of its outright superiority? Who needs a friend with Kleptomania.
BillGits 5 years ago
You have a point,Canada had to leave 1 Billion(US) on the table over a Softwood lumber dispute, even though we have one every court battle over the past ten years during which they collected 5 billion (US) on our lumber. "Got 'ta pay for that SUV somehow"
Gillhoolee 4 years ago
Is this the sum total of the discourse of you war pigs- you remind me of me when I was 10. And leave off Labour politicians- most of you will be begging for attantion from the NHS anytime soon- and your rightwing politicians couldn´t give a shit if you die in your own vomit under a sack somewhere.
monteleon2 5 years ago
Yeah, but at least they make cool aircraft eh?
lightning1975 5 years ago
What? Seeing the government's decisions on this matter to be at best foolhardy, and at worst treasonous does not mean that we're totally opposed to socialism. What has this got to do with "war pigs"? It's just nuts that they basically flushed a load of effort down the drain.
You sound like a political "fanboy". It's nuts to blindly like or accept every policy of or decision made by any polititian or political party.
MrHoppyX 4 years ago
monte...it is GENERALLY because of labour that this country has because the virually ungovernable ultra liberal shambles that it is today..instead of supporting home-grown industries they fall over themselves to look like good europeans...it was labour that ensured that the british aviation industry would never again be able to independantly develope major military projects
psychosis80 4 years ago
damn...become...not because
psychosis80 4 years ago
and conservatives under their "great" defence secutary Duncan Sandys(who was son in law to Winson Churchill),he cancelled 3 Saunders-Roe rocket planes which where looking promising for export to west Germany, a mach 3 recconisance plane built by Avro, the Bristol 188, the Vickers Wild goose swing wing plane, as well as some more plane projects.
LightningT5 4 years ago
Incuding some designs from Fairey, but he let design work for the TSR-2 go ahead after it was put into specification, "just under the net" as he put it, and also he ordered the Lightning into production, if he was minister for defence in 1965 I don't think he would have cancelled the TSR-2.
LightningT5 4 years ago
duncan sandys...if ever a man deserved the pliers and blow lamp treatment..i was down at the de havilland heritage 2 weeks ago and it was really heart breaking to see how much skill and innovation the british aircraft industry had....all done away with for short sighted economies...im not a fan of france..but at least they have maintained an independant defence industry without recourse to the americans
psychosis80 4 years ago
and I forgot to tell you that he cancelled a 'super' hunter design from Hawker aviation that could have had better performance than the Lighning, the reason why the Lightning wasn't cancelled because he said, "Unfortuantly it has gone to far to cancel"
LightningT5 4 years ago
as it had been in developmant scince about 1947
LightningT5 4 years ago
t5...the scary thing is that history is repeating itself...the sea harrier has been retired early and the government is looking into pilotless fighters and ground attack craft..spy drones are one thing but...very reminiscent of the infamous idea that fighters wouldnt be required because guided missiles would defend britain...they never learn
psychosis80 4 years ago
@monteleon2 What a Stupid Comment.
(About a Stupid Party who Ran Our Country Aground Financailly TWICE in just 30 Years).
The Tory's Gave us a Empire, The Fat Stupid Labourites Distroyed it (& everything else)
Get Lost you Dirty Yank Hugging Traitor.
TSR1989FF 1 year ago
@monteleon2 Leg it you left wing wanker.
stubbostubbs 10 months ago
Like Canada's AVRO ARROW(1958). Another"Candle in the Wind." Ya gotta love those Yanks...
Gillhoolee 5 years ago
The Arrow's expenditures was allowed by C.D. Howe an engineer. As an engineering student I can say that management doesn't understand us at all. Learning and proof of concept isn't supported nor is ingenious design appreciated.
If only our society would mature and act it's age, selfish folks will stop and think about LONG TERM advantages. ERTW!
pcfxer 4 years ago
The excuse of cost over runs doesn't wash. The Aircraft was cut up and passed through a 12" hoop. It's plans destroyed not shared in NATO, no parterships with the Soviets breathing down our backs? Too strange for me.
Gillhoolee 4 years ago
Gillhoolee, You are very right it would be nice to find out why the US government were so keen to destroy the Arrow and TSR2. Significant that most of the aerodynamicists on both programmes ended up in the US. And what about the herculean effort by the US to deny Concorde?
WALSHY500 4 years ago
I hate labour and amerikans for getting this scrapped!
otester 5 years ago
One of the best planes NEVER BUILT.
THe US were scared stupid by this planes capabilities and so they Strongarmed the UK Primi Minister (Harold Wilson) into cancelling the project. Not only did the Cancel it but all the tools and jigs that had been made to take the TSR2 into production were DESTROYED!!
hartoz 5 years ago
As a Canuck, check out our Avro Arrow on utube. It met the same fate. I smell a rat, a great big one,nudge,nudge wink,wink.
Gillhoolee 5 years ago
The US government also put extreme pressure on the Canadian Socialist Government at the same time to scrap the Arrow. And what about the Lockheed scandals, the widowmaker(F104). But no0 one went to prison in the US!
WALSHY500 4 years ago
The CF104 aka. "The Lawn Dart"?
Gillhoolee 4 years ago
Fantastic aircraft! The last remaining airframes were sent to MOD Shoeburyness (Pigs Bay) for target practice. Bloody shame the politicians and civil servants got involved. For example; why does it take 60 unqualified civil servants to sit in a committee to determine the layout of the cockpit?
baconsandwich2007 5 years ago
What a cracking aircraft this would have been. Years ahead of it's time, thanks to the politicians that sold out to the U.S we had to wait untill 1980's for the Tornado as the F111's were eventually cancelled when we could of had this instead.
random1drummer 5 years ago
Poor "Little Canada" was flying the "Avro Arrow" in 1958. We had an engine design that would kick the U2's arse at the same altitude.We met a similar demise, Check it out on utube.
Gillhoolee 5 years ago
When the U2 as proving its worth, it went over London and took a picture of the Houses of Parliament and sent it to the MOD. The RAF sent a picture straight back of the U2 taking the picture, taken from a Canberra 2000 feet above it!
WALSHY500 4 years ago
Not that it matters but our Government was led by the Conservatives in 1958.A man who disliked JFK. The fact that the aircraft were destroyed as were all the plans points to something sinister.
Gillhoolee 4 years ago
I consider the destruction of the plans criminal. What would the UK possibly have to gain from that?
MrHoppyX 4 years ago
I would dearly liked to have been in that office when the yanks saw that photograph TOUCHE
taffy402 3 years ago
"All modern aircraft have four dimensions: span, length, height and politics. TSR-2 simply got the first three right." - Sir Sidney Camm.
Nice, run this a few times.
wildhobby 5 years ago
im not far from warton its like the uks area 51
seanfg 5 years ago
Great video, thank-you. I'll happily name the damned Labour MPs who sold us out to the Americans; they were Roy Jenkins and Dennis Healey and they should have been sent to the Tower for treason. As you rightly say, the project was scrapped because the Americans knew the TSR2 was light years ahead of the F-111 and would damage sales. I believe the other airframes were taken to Foulness shooting range and used as targets. Utterley disgraceful!
Soupdragon1964 5 years ago
Thanks for your comments. Glad you enjoyed the video! Spot on re the MP's!!!!
lightning1975 5 years ago
love that jet, first and I think only time it went supersonic its chase plane couldnt keep up... the chase plane being a Lightning!
FallenPhoenix86 5 years ago
Same Fate as the Avro Arrow which was the most advance Mach2+ Plus Canadian Fighter that did fly and was still cancelled. Amazingly shortly after they Buzzed a US Base when they where still fighting to get to mach1.
stihlman37 5 years ago
At last - the TSR2 on YT. One of the best 'planes that never was... I have a painting of it on my wall done up in modern day camo like 'what might have been'! I love walkarounds!
royzee 5 years ago
No lol just saying i wouldnt sell it becuase it more valuable to people like you and me.
tottenham291187 5 years ago
erm...it might have been.. its at blackpool, where it is safe, my grandad worked at RAf warton, so he may have come to own it thru that, im not sure. Worth Money? Nahh means more to me, if you had it would you sell it?
tottenham291187 5 years ago
No, I would'nt sell it either. I was just saying ib case you did'nt realise! Sorry mate, hope I did'nt cause you offence!!!
lightning1975 5 years ago
It was certainly a strange episode; with the Tornado shortly to enter service, developing the TSR.2 to completion would have been a very odd thing to do. As it turned out, the Tornado became more or less what the TSR.2 was to have been. That it was still slightly less capable than the TSR.2 had been projected to be a full fifteen years earlier says a great deal about how far advanced the TSR.2 project really was
tottenham291187 5 years ago
And to say iam only 18. Shows the impact it had on people who were born after the the project. i will always love the picture of it flying i have, signed by one of the pilots, i will have to go find out who it is who signed it when i can.
tottenham291187 5 years ago
If it's signed by Roland Beamont, it might be worth quite a bit of money one day (or indeed now)???
lightning1975 5 years ago
yeah 1981 i think..ill get some info..
Strangely, in 1981, the then Conservative government briefly looked at reviving the TSR.2 programme. This got as far as looking at possible modifications to bring it up to date (Tornado style intakes, modern electronics, extensive use of carbon fibre construction to lower the weight and so on)
tottenham291187 5 years ago
got a signed picture of one of those, signed by the test pilot or someone or other. i heard the story slightly differently, in that the americans wanted to take the project over, but i prefer your story as it sounds more realistic lol
tottenham291187 5 years ago
It is true. There is a book called 'The murder of the TSR2' which will tell you all about it. There was also a lot of procrastination at BAC: Meetings about meetings e.t.c.
lightning1975 5 years ago
cheers mate, i will have a look because the TSR-2 took peoples imagination like concorde did. the TSR-2 was truly out of its time and would still be one of the most feard planes of today i think
tottenham291187 5 years ago
Easily! It was miles better than the F-111. So good in fact that the government even considered resurrecting the project at the end of the 70's instead of the Tornado. As usual, they chose the cheaper, inferior version...! Doh!
lightning1975 5 years ago
Dan Akaroyd (Blues Brothers Comedy) made a movie about Canada's Avro Arrow. It would be interesting if someone would compare notes on these aircraft to find out what really happened.
Gillhoolee 4 years ago
a crime indeed...not as sad as the arrow's story...but perhaps equally as unfortunate
Mundos 5 years ago
It was an almost criminal act that this aircraft never saw active service with NATO, it was by far the best design for the task at hand.
Toolpusher 5 years ago
Awesomely fast aircraft, Australia was ready to order a whole bunch of these aircraft until they cancelled it. They ended up buying troublesome F-111 instead, which was almost a decade late and still full of problems. I'm pretty sure there is a TSR.2 at Duxford as well? or is that the same one?
R988 5 years ago
The one at Duxford is different and the only other example. That aircraft has no engines/avionics fitted and is by no means complete in other ways. I think that on paper, the TSR2 could easily have reached Mach 3, although the kinetic heating of the nose/cockpit glazing would have precluded this.
lightning1975 5 years ago