NICE guidelines item

[elenite396]

Jarvis is 'at it' with Wessely.

[elenite396]

Dr Jarvis is a hooker for 'BIG PHARMA'.

A hooker who won't catch aids, crabs or syphylis, and isn't in danger of rape.

Ahooker with very rich and powerful clients

[elenite396]

Dr Jarvis, you are a shill for big pharma and the corrupt status quo. You fool the masses, but not patients or seekers of the truth.

The 'wide spectrum' you talk about is NOT a single illness, and you know it. There is ME (a biomedical illness, with many pathogens being implicated - especially XMRV), and the are other illnesses which have fatigue as a symptom. THEY ARE NOT ALL ME. or as you call it - 'IT'.

[PostHuman2113]

Been resting all day, condition just keeps on getting worse and worse. Now all it takes for the fluttering in my heart to start, is half and hour to 1 hour at the computer. Fuck, and I rest all day and get nothing done!!! What a rip off, and the Doctors who are ABUSING people with M.E. will be burn't to death when this is verified and they start developing a cure.

"So, disease of the min or disease of the body"

You saying it's all in the head again or wot?????

[PostHuman2113]

If it was psychological, then explain to me why I am unable to make it to the end of my street never mind the 1 KM to the post office, to post the items I've been selling on eBay.

[ShowalterdontlikeME]

The lady is Dr. Sarah Jarvis. She is yet another example of the laughable policy of broadcasters, where every magazine program has it's own particular doctor. Invariably a GP. The GP is then trundled onto the program when necessary to speak as an expert in every illness under the sun. I never heard anyone of them ever say, "It's not my field." Listening to Sarah Jarvis I suspect she leans towards somatoform. She seems to be suffering from GPitis - The inability to say, "I dont know."

[AHummingbirdsGuide]

That woman has no ideaq what she is talki ng about. When she talks about mild M.E. she is talking about non-ME patients, just tired poeple. It is so frustrating!

Tired people who improve with CBT or GET do NOT have ME! That Dr should do some basic basic research before airing her views on TV!

(I know u know this GBC one, just speaking to general audience!)

[flopsyuk]

Hi Silicon,

There is no relationship to stressful events. I think that you may be confusing chronic fatigue and ME.

ME shows many viri from entrovirus in the gut to reactivated EBV. There has been some research into the epidemics which showed novel viri signs.

All signs point to infectous agents.

Physical burnout is not related to ME as it shows different symptoms (like TATT).

ME shows a distinct pathology that is not related to stress.

[AHummingbirdsGuide]

Well said. Burnout is linked to fatigue and some CFS misdiagnosed patients - NOT TO M.E.!

Stress shmess! It is caused hy a virus.

[silicon2001]

I cannot help thinking the rat race is to blame for much of it. We are not machines but we are expected to function like one. No consideration is given to a person having good or bad days. We still have to go to work even if we have a very bad nights sleep or lack off. This is not natural. Animals when tired rest or sleep. Our alarm clock world is making us ill.

[flopsyuk]

Silicon2001,

The illness struck me when I was a happy,young student on holiday.

M.E. occurs in epidemics so if it was the "rat race" we would expect to see it occur in different patterns

[silicon2001]

An epidemic would suggest a biological illness like a contagious disease (influenza etc) that can pass from one person to another by contact, air, foods etc. It clearly is not contagious and not visible physiologically. This is why I refer to unnatural work patterns that do not allow for the bodies biorhythms or mental fatigue. The rat race is fundamentally ridiculous for non machine like beings. We all buy lotto tickets in the hope of escaping this trap.

[flopsyuk]

Silicon2001,

I don't understand this bit

"It clearly is not contagious and not visible physiologically"

[silicon2001]

It is not something like a bacteria or virus that can be pinned down it appears to be more phycological than physiological. Looking at the age groups and association with stressful events it is clearly not a flu like virus passable from one person to another. It would appear to be a mental burnout of sorts leading to real physical weakening.

[priced80]

Ok so im guessing that any hint of saying this is psychological is going to be condemned. Well let me explain im actually a neuropsychologist and my personal belief is that the damage is to the nervous system possibly the spine or brain stem, which is why it is so hard to detect. If it was purely a physical/energy transmission problem then we would be able to tell by taking blood samples.

[priced80]

Actually i happen to agree in a way with silicon2001. I think the working ethic in the UK is especially harmful to our health. I work in an office where people are expected to work overtime for free everyday and lots of people including me have to travel long distances in very stressful conditions to get to work followed by more stress in work. All this could be having an impact on our immune functioning which would in turn allow a virus to attack our nervous system easier.

[GBCTwo]

People have to run to stand still and that must have an adverse affect on some people's health. I fell ill at a time when I was more or less doing two people's jobs. As for stress and subsequent illness, many people have had heart attacks after doing too much so I don't dismiss the role of stress totally. One of the many problems with all of this is the slightest hint of anything mental is jumped on, hence you've received a few red thumbs. I think you've made a point that's been misconstrued...

[GBCTwo]

(still replying to priced80)

Purely from my own experience, I fell ill with a cold at a time when I was more active than ever so your point about stress leading to a weakening of an immune system certainly sounds logical to me. Unfortunately the whole ME/CFS thing seems like a total dustbin diagnosis to me and that has to be the fault of the medical profession yet it's the patients who are taking the blame quite often.

[GBCTwo]

Sorry to keep on about this (!) but the place of work I was in at the time of illness was, quite frankly, a shithole. It was very cramped, we had four or five smokers, it was damp, we had cockroaches scuttling around and one bloke used to turn up for work with a knife. The fact that I was the only one to develop what was called ME after having a cold tells me nothing more than that we're all different and it doesn't automatically make it a mental health thing. Doctors have to try harder.

[fogggygyrl]

I keep trying to exercise but it keeps knocking me down. I rest most of the time, not by choice so I'm not pushing too much and crashing. By exercising I mean riding my bike for a few blocks just to try to get back into it. I can't believe the amount of pain I'm dealing with whether I try to do anything or not. Most of the time I can't do anything but lay flat on my back. And that's a fact, Jack.

[Bluebottle83]

I have had severe viral onset M.E. for 20 years; it has been classified as a neurological illness by the WHO since 1969.There is overwhelming evidence that it is a life threatening physical illness.All I've ever been offered is graded exercise and cognitive 'therapies',lumped together with people with CFS who seem to be feeling a bit tired.Both 'therapies make me much worse.I've never had viral or heart testing or brain scans. The treatment of M.E. patients in this country is a national scandal.

[telemetry9]

with the dubious changes coming to incapacity benefit - I am really worried about being targeted by arbitrary decision makers with no insight into how my illness has effected my life.

[jamac1969]

As an ME sufferer of 2 and a half years, i would like to add that the ignorance of the government whilst dealing with this illness has to be experienced to be believed.i participated in a condition management programme, actively trying to do anything that i could that may improve my quality of life, only for the government to tell me that the illness was in my mind and that i was depressed, something i am most definitely not.

[jamac1969]

i have even been told that i should be looking for work. are there any jobs available where the boss will accept you missing a month at a time, coming in for 5 mins only to have to go home to bed ill for the next week! nah! i didnt think so. its horrible being told that you are something you are categorically not. life is difficult enough, whilst suffering any illness, without people that dont even know you judging you wrongly.

[jamac1969]

twice i have tried graded exercise programs twice, the 2nd time put me in bed for the best part of a month, and yet i am expected to try it again. i despair, i really do. then i am bracketed as lazy when i say i wont try it again, would anyone? let me think! you are asked, nay told! to do something that could put you in bed for a month! would you do it? its a no brainer surely!!

[GBCOne]

CBT/GE for mild/moderate M.E. is still irrelevant because it is addressing fatigue symptoms. There still is very little acceptance, acknowledgment, research and treatment into the neurological side of this.

[luminescentfeeling]

''We haven't got time'' says the BBC presenter.

No doubt they cut to a piece on insulting Islam by the 'controversial' use of bacon adverts before 9PM.

This country makes me sick - literally.

[twanggit]

This is a very good assessment of the problem of graded exercise making matters much worse, to the stage of prolonged agonising pain, and the ignorance, conveniently, of the medical examiners who choose not to understand this. There is a lot to be learned but it has to involve sufferers, not textbook studies.

[neelubird]

Thank you for sharing. I'm so glad they made it very apparent that Graded Exercise makes most people with ME worse- so to even suggest it as a potential course of (mis)treatment within the guidelines is ridiculous.

[redrachel76]

Thank you for posting this.