@Becksny75 im 21 and been born and raised in the word. i remember asking my mom ( a '72 '73 WOW ambassador and still standing) about about some of the stuff ive read online, such as the "sex orgies." Her response, " Why didnt anyone invite me? wasn't I attractive?" lol.
weird i got sent here but to give a lil back story to where we learn Jesus is God John 8:58 states " Before Abraham was , I am" Now reason he said that was that Jesus was talking about Abraham intimately (knew things to the point that he had to be there) and the pharisees pointed out how could he know such things when Abraham was over 2000 years ago and he was just a man over 30.
@whycntwebfriends The greek of John 8:58b is πριν αβρααμ γενέσθαι εγω ειμι better translated prior Abraham [came to being] I EXIST. Jesus made an emphatic propositional statement. He either did exist prior or the statement is false and Jesus is a liar or mad man. Jesus didn't give any other option. This is not the only message that Jesus gives concerning preexistence.
I am simply saying God is our creator and our cause for being here and Jesus Christ is the son of God. I do not believe Jesus Christ is God. I think ever since we were young we were always taught God is Jesus and Jesus is God. I always had a problem with that one. I think common sense would tell us the difference.
@gslblues Respectfully speaking, where did we get the idea that Jesus was God? Common sense shows that Jesus is NOT the Father for sure but the Son of God as you have said. But what does that mean according to scripture and the ancient semetic languages? Does scripture support a created or uncreated position for "The Son of God"? If created then he can't be God but if uncreated then the Church is correct to apply to the Son of God a title such as God the Son.
@gslblues If Christ is Not God as you say then he too must be of the created order-hence not all-knowing, omnipresent, omniscient, or Good for that matter. Thats just a few of the attributes that Only God can fill-thats common sense right? Now if Christ is Not God then he can not be any of those thngs can he? Now does scripture apply the same attributes to Jesus that only God can fill?
I would like to know one thing, how can god be the son of himself ? I would like to know also, if Jesus was god then why did Satan try to tempt him? If anyone knows that god cannot be tempted, Satan knows better than all of us put together.
@gslblues Not for sure of your position about God and who you believe him to be. Could you please clarify? Are you saying that The Father is God? Are you saying the Son is God? Are you saying The Father cannot be tempted because he is God and the Son can be tempted therefore he is Not God? Clarifying your position would better help me to fully know where you are coming from so I can at least attempt to give you an answer.Thanks if ya would.
@gslblues First you have to define God and who He is... Can God become a man... I agree God is not a man but who said God can't become a man? If God being a spiritual being (not physical) so not confined to a space that is omnipresent.. Why is it not possible for God to occupy a human body and occupy Heaven at the same time. Augustine view God existing in Time all at once. Wrap your head around that... I think before answering these questions lets see what Jesus said about himself.
@gslblues It seems to be by your statement that you may be misunderstanding the churches position about God. The Church believes that there is a person called the Father and there is a persn called the Son so when we say Jesus is God we have never meant that he was the person of the Father. So he is not the Son of himself but of the Father and both collectively make GOD just as MAN collectively is man and woman. TheChurch does NOT believe that the Father and Son are the same PERSON. One in Unity
I grew up in The Way Ministry and I am 36 years old...NOBODY ever told me what to think or say...we were taught that Gods Word was the truth and the only truth...it is the rightly divided Word! Yes. DOCTOR Victor Paul Wierwille is asleep no...awaiting the return of our Lord Jesus Christ! God bless those of you who do not know The Way and I will pray for you!
John 1:14 Και ό Λόγοσ σάρξ έγένετο και έσκήνωσεν έν ήμιν. Directly translated: And the logos flesh became and tabernacled with us. It is interesting VPW didn't address this in his book. Concerning the use of the word Logos by contemporaries in the 1st century and why the author (John) would equate the logos coming into the place only God dwells. This is a big one.
1) VP Weirwille is dead. 2) from what I could see of this video and comments, there was a great deal of lies and half truths mixed in with those "facts"
Victor Paul Weirwille is deceptive because he gives the illusion that he understand greek and hebrew. When he does not. Anyone who claims to have a doctorate in theology but lies about having greek and hebrew as he did when he went to Princeton is not a real doctor in my opinion.
CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT My stepfather was a part of this cult and beat the shot otta me because the way believes in physical obedience. He hated me because I am a catholic. That mother fucker and his cult can rot in hell.
They even teach a lie about the Holy Spirit. They seperate the father and the holy spirit who they believe is a force not a being/God. So when THEY want holy spirit to refer to the Father the H and S are capitalized, and when referring to "the gift" the lowercase it the h and s
@42cody1 Im glad Ive come to the truth but im not sure about my fams salvation, especially when it has been presented to them. Though they are blinded they are picking man over God. Though they fit the word to make sense to their beliefs, you dont see its not interpreted correctly, its still what Wierwille thinks goes. They strictly focus on Jesus being a man, the son of man, u miss on diety verses now or interpret them differently.
@42cody1 The way denies they dead have consciousnesses, so n\I see no wonder why I or my fam have never heard of the transfiguration, or the rich man and Lazurus, same thing with the trinity, they dont speak on Jesus being the I am, things I had to learn, and see for myself. Jesus seeing Abraham and the Jews were mad. The Way doesn't even acknowledge the preincarnation. EVen the Witnesses see that he existed before his human birth, thats clearly taught
@chucky55122 I found a verse John 6:38 where Christ says"For I came down from Heaven not to do my will but the will of him who sent me". It really amazes me how the Way Anti-Christ ministry missses his pre-existence. Chucky thank you for your enlightening comments. Having lived through this as we have NOW we both can testify. Godbless the true Gospel as we await the coming our our Great God and Savior Jesus Christ. Titus 2:13.
Also the classes are mind control, and the heresies are only revealed in the classes so you pay them with no refunds oppurtunity. You sit there for 3 hours a day watching a videotape, spiritually its an attempt to soak in all the info they give you and they'll make it make sense. They keep telling you Jesus is just a man so that's all they mention never explaining his verses of deity. If you fall for it, you'll be brainwashed into not seeing Jesus is God
@chucky55122 Im 100% not judging im just wondering since i didn't go to any other church ( im was raised in the way) why do you believe that jesus is god?
@TheMaryJaneShow The bible credits Jesus as creator of all, He is the Word that is God and the word that became flesh. God appeared in human form in the old testament and in the new testament, Jesus says I saw Abraham and he delighted to see me. The bible tells us worship no one but God yet Jesus is worshiped without rebuke, Jesus is alpha and omega no beginning nor end, he is The I AM, Jehova, even becoming flesh found as a man he was still equal with God, read Philippians chapter 2
@TheMaryJaneShow The apostles recognize Jesus as God and saviour, God the Father calls Jesus God. Paul recognized the Holy Spirit as God when Annanias lied to the Holy Spirit Paul told him you have not lied to man but God. The bible tells us Emmanuel means The prince of peace, The almight God, the everlasting Father, and God with us. Names Always meant who/what they were. Mr. Weirwille didnt wanna believe Jesus was God, he could only "explain' 4 of many verses that announce his deity, its more
@chucky55122 he missed the hundreds of verses pointing to deity- from what I have learned is that he approached like 4 or 5 verses and tried to explain them away actually uneffectively-he made it look as though there were only just a few verses that pointed to deity rather than the many-doing so sets up a straw man to defeat-so he made the position look weak to begin with then attacked-but this was only to fool those less knowledgeable of scripture.
@TheMaryJaneShow All I can tell you is that the classes start off with Jesus teaching the son of man side of him. For hours and hours you soak in their point of view, and we can always make the word make sense to our beliefs. Son of God means deity not a created child. bible uses terms like son of god and son of perdition to explain nature, the exact qualities of, as Jesus is credited to being in theFORM of God. The bible also says God was IN Christ reconciling the world to HIMSELF
@TheMaryJaneShow TheJews knew what son of God meant and Jesus going around forgiving sins, only God can do so and for him calling himself son of God, they were ready to stone him, they said because you claim to BE God. In the old testament God is revealed as I Am, Jesus says if you don't believe I Am, you will die in your sins. I learned good things from the way but cults come to denounce the deity of Jesus and the Spirit of God. an ignorance of the trinity and its history lead to this
I think more dangerous than The Way International are the splinter groups it spawned, like Spirit & Truth Fellowship International which has a channel on YouTube and followers who call themselves Christians while the doctrines are essentially the same.
God had to show me he is triune as well. Sadly my family is stuck on Wiereilles beliefs and mad at me for relearning beliefs, due to their heresies. It amazing how they say that Jehovah Wittnesses are a cult, but The Way is very similar to them. Though falsely interpreted, At least the JW recognize Jesus had a pre-existence
I took the PFAL Class in 1980,but had serious disagreement with their teaching.my twig leader would cuss you out in a heart beat...but I did have fun.I wish I knew where those people are today.
i live in new knoxville. really the way is about a mile out of town and everyone makes fun of the ones who take it seriously. their way cops are funny as hell to. if you ride your bike on the road that goes through there village the way cops speed up and cut you off. then when you decide you dont care what they have to say they say. "you had better listen and stay off our property or we will call the real cops." btw you need way permission just to visit a friend there.
Speaking for myself, TWI offered more freedom&accuracy w/love and power than any denominational church I ever attended. As a former Marine with an understanding of motivational techniques I approached TWI w/caution&reserve. The WORD,the Holy Spirit, all focused on the Father thru Jesus Christ.Never did I witness any "control".Iwould have walked to the nearest bar in a heart beat.This clip?(My)conclusion: the usual creamy shit about TWI. What happened after 1986 I know not. Let GOD be the judge.
@Flickchaser hello sir. I can give you a brief synopsis of what my hub (then bf) and I experienced in The Way. We came across them 1st in Tempe Az then in Tucson. We thought it was great to be teaching out of the bible in a home church. Though we were both newly seeking Christ, formerly Catholics, we came to leave for different reasons. I thought it was bizarre that in order for them to reveal their beliefs you had to go through level classes. Thank God he showd us the true way. Triune GOD!
Respond to this video... p.s they also were silent when we asked what the truth is about sexual relations outside of marriage. They said we would learn that in the "advanced" class! Give me a break!!!
I have seen the same mistakes of the Way made by denominations and "non denominational ministries" . When is the last time you pullled your pastor aside and pointed out error in his teaching ? If you did (which is incredibly rare) How did he respond ? I can probably guess. Many pastors tell you that the bible is the standard and not to take their word for it but few actually mean business. Though they have a responsiblility, so do you for your own faith and walk.
I was in The Way, I have moved on. I believe that Jesus is God and that it is what the bible teaches. However , though I disagree with some of their doctrines, I am still thankful for my experience there. God brought me there and I learned a lot that still benefits me and others. You just have to know how to 1) worship God, not a man 2) Do what Dr.W said and work the Word yourself. 3) accept responsibility for your own spiritual walk.
This is such a bunch of nonsense. I was involved with The Way International for years. I can tell you from first hand experience that there was no "brain washing" there was no violence, there was none of the things that they are accused of. It was not much different than a lot of mainstream churches except that they did not believe in having church buildings and they had some doctrinal differences. I now disagree with some of their teachings but I am glad that I had that experience.
This is obvious anti-propaganda. A bunch of lies. They say one thing and show another. This was aired back in the 70's when the group was still very cool. Some crap did emerge however, but that happens, regardless of religion. They tried to discern the bible for truth, and did a great job, for the most part. On contrast, most Christians are a bunch of sheeple, following idiot leaders. The Way followers were just a little more extraordinary, in my view. Nothing more than a ministry. I was there.
It's amazing how the Devil infiltrated and stopped the spreading of the word after his death. the Devil won this battle so it seems. Whom will he take down next ?
The website "About the Way International" is one of the most comprehensive sites that refutes the false doctrine of The Way International and is done so by qualified scholars with the proper training and education. This site exposes not only the previous sexual misconduct by both its previous leaders but also exposes the hypocrisy of their history. It exposes the dishonesty of Victor Paul Wierwille and his dishonesty in Plagiarism and false interpretaion of scripture. A credible site, pls look.
And you shall know their fruits and know that they are not of God. You are of your Father the devil, a liar he was from the beginning and the Father of it. Exposed.........
Good defense Derek, now you have just resorted right back to insults just like any other follower of Wierwille or the way international. All I did was quote scripture and inform you on the shallow scholarship of Wierwille and what he doesn't want his followers to know. I think you as well after cussing me repeated and your refusal of scripture have shown without a doubt that you like Wierwille are just as much a false prophet as he is. Nothing else at this point needs 2 be said.
I was involved with The Way from about 1976 until the late 1980's. For many years it was a WONDERFUL network of loving, normal people, most of whom knew the Bible better than any preacher I've ever heard/known...which is quite a few. Over time a few problems crept in and, like many other churches, they fragmented. Some people go hook, line & sinker into things as the girl in this video probably did, but if you retain balance, you do fine. I thank God for the Word I learned in The Way.
I thank God for the Way Ministry everyday. Although I'm not and active member of the way Int. today, I'm blessed and forever will be blessed because of the way ministry. what i've learned from them is priceless.
No one can take your Will, unless you give them your Will...
Everyone lives their choices, and well you're living their choice.... end of story.
sherrylnyc - A simple statement such as yours is far from adequate. So-called 'mind control' is not making people robots. Properly understand it & honestly research why many consider The Way Int'l/TWI a mind control group. It goes back to Dr Weirwille, but got worse & flaky under the disgraced LC Martindale & even more worse under Riverbank. Those 2 decimated TWI.
I cannot agree that The Way International "brain wash" people. The Bible (the revealed Word and Will of God) commands believers to change, by the entire renewal of the mind; rather than adapt and mimic the ostensible projections of this age - in order to prove something to and for themselves, Romans 12:2.
This is the duty of every believer, but it is a free-will decision and people do this because they want to love and obey God.
This is an unjust accusation to make against that Ministry.
Derek-UR reply on brainwashing doesn't address or answer anything on the issue of TWI & mind control/brainwashing. It isn't that Paul is wrong in Rom 12:1-2, it's that VICTOR Paul (Wierwille) & LCM & RiverBARF are wrong on how they define & misuse the apostle Paul. It's shallow thinking to answer the charge by not addressing anything of substance. It's deflecting from the issues. You need to find out what mind control is, why people say TWI fits the definition & decide honestly
@harry4health The Kingdom of God is not a democracy. People in that ministry are "followers" of the Way. The leaders lead by example; the believers follow with imitation (1 Corinthians 11:1). You are to be in one accord and one mind. The Way International is clearly within its rights to state what is expected of its adherents. They also have the right to demand compliance. If you are not willing to toe the line - you are free to go. That's the way it is with all organizations.
@harry4health There is no "mind control" or "brainwashing" in that ministry. If a legal adult makes a decision to give his allegiance, time, etc to them , that is his business. He was not conned into doing it. They are very open about the kind of commitment that they expect from people who want to to be an integral part of that ministry. If you don't want it; just leave. And many people did just that - they left. They were free. They had (and still have) there brains and minds.
DerekSelvon - You need to research what 'mind control' is & is not. U don't seem to know enough, or anything. It isn't what they tell U, but the details and etc. FreedomOfMind*net
Please study it w/an open mind & find out why many state TWI is a mind control group. I don't like the term, but it's the common term.
Usually/most of the time when people say TWI, or others, aren't a mind control group they barely know anything about it, not enough, or don't do adequate comparing mind control & TWI
@harry4health I have done much research on "mind control". I am also very interested in the people who charge a fee to "liberate" loved ones from cults. People are free to chose. Hundreds have left the Way because they have freewill. But there will always be young and confused and lonely people to feed the machinery of cults. The Way International is not a cult. They research the Word and teach the Word and provide fellowship. That's all there is to it.
@DerekSelvon - If someone wnats to devote time, research & effort, then yes, they need to get paid to do it. Diversionary to point fingers.
If U use the 'people have left TWI because they have freewill' as an argument against TWI as a mind control group, then U still don;'t properly understand it, or the principles & details concerning thought reform or 'mind control'.
I wonder what sources U use in what U say was your research.
It doesn't eliminate their ability to leave. That's shallow
@DerekSelvon In my experience with the Way, I wouldn't say mind control but some might see it as mind control depending on the person, some people are weaker than others, I when placing my questions to Leadership about things such as Trinity, the Deity of Christ, never once did I receive any loving instruction but rather extreme sarcasm and then they would eye you real hard and never treat you as well as they used too. That is how I was controlled and brought into complaince to their Leadership.
@42cody1 I have heard ALL the arguments that in one way or another attempt to support that God consists of three entities in one and that Jesus is God etc....
You will never convince me of this devilish doctrine through logical argumentation.
I really don't care if you continue with this other Jesus that you have received. I really don't care about your worldly brand of Christianity. I don't care about you or the thoughts of your puffed up, fleshy mind. Like I said: fuck you and your Jesus!
@DerekSelvon -Cody came with reasoning & Bible. U ignored it all, admitted U don't like logic, U told him U dont care about him, smeared him as "puffed up" & claimed he had a "fleshly mind" but told him "fuck you & your Jesus". UR dishonest & carnal. UR a blatant hypocrite, YOU have the "fleshly mind". How blind of U to contradict URself in same post. UR arrogant/puffed up- UR pride & carnal lack of decency & self-control exposes U badly. Empty cliche of "fleshly mind" (TWI buzzword?) is useless
It shows your LACK of biblically 'renewed mind' that you knock Cody's "logical argumentation".
U don't reject the Trinity because it isn't biblical. You reject it because of a closed mind, hardened heart & nasty, carnal, anti-biblical spirit & mouth
Victor P, Werewolf. This man slept with almost every beautiful "follower" the year I took PFAL class. We were all young college students at the time.
He was a perverted, sexual maniac. The bus he used was a moving sleezy motel. I can attest to all I have said and stand by with witnesses if called to do so.
My brother died, as did his wife, soon after they found out the truth about victor p.
The real story remains hidden, I am sure, due to the need individuals have to idolize. .
@curlyqpd Instead of cutting and pasting the same comment all over YouTube, why not write a fucking blog and tell the whole world? Everybody wants to know!
//He was a perverted, sexual maniac. The bus he used was a moving sleezy motel. I can attest to all I have said and stand by with witnesses if called to do so.//
So am calling on you - DO IT!
//The real story remains hidden, I am sure, due to the need individuals have to idolize. .// What about you?
In order to look at the way international for what it really is, just type "john lynn twi" on google and you'll get the truth! Open your eyes, we are living the endtimes and it becomes more difficult to recognize the ennemy for those who don't have a critical and indipendant reading of the Bible!
Some of the greatest believers in the God's Word both men and women came from the way in the 70's - 80's. It also seems that the world was a lot better place to live in due to these power packed believers. You want change, -Then Renew your mind on the Word not the World.
@MSA6001 who are these people you speak of from the 70's and 80's and where are they now? and why would the world be a better place? than it is now? have all these power packed believers now past away? if they are all already dead then what happened to all that life saving power? if they are still alive then why isnt the world a better place due to these power packed believers?
@42cody1 Well guess what, many of us are still here, still believing the Word and still remembering the man that taught us that Word, DR. VICTOR PAUL WEIRWILLE.
And please, if you think the world is supposed to be a better place, you best read 1 and 2 Thessalonians and a little bit of 1st Timothy.
We are STILL HERE. We are MOVING THE WORD. Everyone else is free to participate in the fellowship of ignorance and bitterness, but NOT US.
@kozanne I was respinding to another post, not that I ever thought the world would be a better place -I believe when Christ comes in his Kingdom it will be a far better place of which I am sure you will agree, so lets find something that we can agree upon with one another. I hope and pray to see you there. I was in The Way Int during the late 80's to almost mid 90's, so I can speak that the people I met were wonderful people. I do not agree with the teaching per say, but good people.
@kozanne I mean to direct my attention to mostly the unbiblcal teachings of the Way Int. Not meaning to attack anyone personally. In research of Weirwille-it was good to look at his character because it gave us a fruit that we needed to look at namely dishonesty. I cannot call him Dr. because he in reality never earned one. Dishonesty for example "plagiarism". That is passing the work of someone else off as your own. I encourage you to look into this matter, for your spriitual growth. In Christ
@42cody1 I have been hearing this shit for more than 20 years and its simply NOT TRUE. The man was qualified and he never stole any man's work. It is true that he studied the work of many scholars; but he always gave credit where it was due. (BTW thank you for giving the definition of the word "plagiarism") And "the unbiblcal teachings of the Way Int."?? "Unbiblcal" Teachings?? Cody, you're so full of it! Where should I go for the real thing? To you and the Christian Research Institute??.
@DerekSelvon Hello, Derek- I think a good place to start would be the bible, where Christ promised that the gates of hell would not prevail against the church. To believe that Satan prevailed against the Church and engrafted the Deity of Christ is unbiblical and incorrect church history. The evidence is plain to see that Wierwille did in fact plagiarize and it open for anyone to see. The evidence can easily be viewed by Dr. J Judes website "About the Way International".
@42cody1 Jesus Christ is not a deity. God is one, not three. All of Christiamdom is satanic. If the teachings of Victor Paul Wierville are "unbiblical and incorrect", fine. Go and worship your Jesus and let Hank the Answer Man think for you. But please stop being an effeminate prick. Christian ministries are not going to change just because you criticize them from the standpoint that you are right and they are wrong. 99% truth is not truth. God will judge their work and God will judge you.
@DerekSelvon Derek, I all I am simply doing is expsoing incorrect teaching for what it is. Yes, the teachings of the Way International are unbiblical an its not fine-as we are in a spiritual battle for the souls of men. i gather your wanting me to live and let live. I tell ya what? if you stop praising and putting a false prophet on a pedistal then I will not approach the situation. As far as it being wrong to worship Christ maybe you need to tell the heavenly host. Hebrews 1:6
@42cody1 //"Unbibical" teachings. Incorrect Teaching.// You are right. All other disciples who are not with C.R.I. are wrong. This is your assertion??? Fuck you .......... and your Jesus too.
@42cody1t.The teachings of the Way are not only Biblicaly accurate but ,they are logical and practical.Nobody and that means nobody can believe what they do not understand and ..nobody can commit to what they do not believe.God never coerced any one into believing His Word.
@geoverra66 Sorry they are NOT accurate in my experience! They teach you can be without sin if you achieve a certain level!! "If any man says he has no sin he is a liar," says the Word! As a former member, I am grateful he showed me the truth. Jesus is deity. God is triune. It took 2 yrs for that to be revealed, but He is faithful. Read the Word really wanting to know the truth and He will be faithful to all who question the trinity.
@DerekSelvon I think sticking to facts and being willing to expound upon would be the correct thing to do in this situation, rather than cursing and insulting-which as I have experienced is common among many followers of the Way International whether current or not. I don't doubt your sincerity towards the subject but at least one should try to promote fruits worthy of Christianity. We all fail Derek but can we at least be kind one to another. The church has indeed refuted and answered the call.
@42cody1 There are always two or more opinions regarding a "fact". A 'fact' is not truth. I do not agree with your facts. Your "Christianity" is allegorical. We worship two different gods. I worship the God and Father of the Lord Jesus Christ. You chose a Jesus and you chose a Christ. Live with it.
@DerekSelvon Anyways I hope and pray God reveals his nature to you, I am more than willing to share with you scripture about the subject in question. I hope that we could speak kindly to one another in the course of questions. Have a good day Derek, I ma here if you need to talk. Love in Christ.
@42cody1 First of all you cannot explain the trinity to anyone because you don't understand it,secondly it does not make any sense,there is nothing mysterious about God,but there is something very fishy with the unsound doctrine of the trinity
@geoverra66 if God were a single being and not triune there would be aspects of his being that are not explainable-such as his being eternal. The being of God whether triune of single is a mystery in itself. Scripture states that That the Father is God Jn 17:3, The Son is God Jn 1:1, Jn 20:28, The Holy Spirit is God but yet there is just 1 God. The Father is eternal common sense, the Son is eternal Micah 5:2, Jn 1:1 and the Holy Spirit is eternal. Father and Son R functional terms 4 relationship
@42cody1 Life here is not a Jesus movie. It is a spiritual contest. We are in a war zone. I don't have to be kind to you. You are hiding behind a sobriquet and an avatar and you are attacking Christians and Believers and Assemblies and men who worked and built. Where is your work? / Fruits worthy of Christianity/?? WTF? For whom? // We all fail /// Who is "we" ?? fuck you again, 'Cody'.
@DerekSelvon Derek, I dont think, I am deserving of such hostility. One thing I can say of Christ is that I dont think he would have ever cussed anyone out as you have me, or would I think the Father would approve of such actions. Anyways, I forgive you.
@42cody1 There are many Jesus(s) and many Christs. There is only one Jesus Christ and HE IS NOT GOD!!!
// One thing I can say of Christ is that I dont think he would have ever cussed anyone out as you have me// You have no evidence to support that assertion.
// or (nor) would I think the Father would approve of such actions// "THE" Father?? You mean 'God the father'?? !/3 of your deity/?
@DerekSelvon Derek You have cursed me out recently the evidence is right in our posts, I don't want to have hostility between us please. Christ most definately said "I ascend to my God and your God" upon the resurrection -so I agree that the Father is the Deity of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ-because Christ is also a human being. Christ is also worshipped as well and claims Deity. So its better said Christ as a man died but as God he raised his body from death. Jn 2:19-22 Love in Christ
@42cody1 Jesus Christ is not God. 1 John 4: 1-3. (in the flesh, "in"- "en" : to be totally within the realm of something.) If Jesus the man was also God, then he could not fulfill the criteria for the sacrifice for the redemption and salvation of man. He had to be 100% man. He is the Son of God - not God the Son.
@DerekSelvon Derek, man its forgotten, love ya man I do, Derek its important for us to take the whole council of scripture, Weirwille went to one verse during PFAL dealing with Jn 1:1 he emphasized the Greek word Pros-meaning with that the Word was pros=with God meaning togther with yet distinctly independent of, The church agrees with this definition why because we believe that the Person of the Father and the person of the Son R independently distinct from the othr but both R God collectively
@DerekSelvon Derek I will respond a little later, pushed for time at the moment. The Church believes Christ was 100% man according to the flesh and 100% God. I will speak a lil later on this. Love in Christ.
@DerekSelvon Christ having "COME" in the flesh meaning he arrived as in from one place to another as opposed to him being born, although he was born. To use the word COME in the flesh is significant that he left one place and arrived at another, thus was pre-existent if preexistent the he had to also be of another Nature as well for the biblical record was that "he came down from Heaven" John 6:38 to do his Father's will. Thus he is NOT the Father and he didn't begin on the Earth.
@DerekSelvon if he is Not the Father and he was from Heaven and having come to Earth to be born as a Man, what was his nature prior to having COME in the flesh. He couldnt have been a man by logic, or an angel by logic? our only other choice is that he has to be God. Why? He receives the same Worship as God receives. Hebrews 1:6, He is callled God Jn 1:1, Rev 1:17, Titus 2:13, Jn 20:28, Jn 10:30, He is Equal Jn 5:18, plus he existed before the foundation of the world as a person. Jn 17:5
@DerekSelvon If one applies the correct definition to the term Son of God and how it applied to those in the 1st century semetic languages we would see something beautiful emerge, it would mean that Christ was of the Sameness of Nature and Equality of being as seen in Jn 5:18 and this is why the Jews wanted to kill him because he claimed he was Equal to God.Jn 5:18, Jn 8:58 because he being a Man was claiming he was God. Jn 10:30 Trully the Great God and Savior of us Jesus Christ. Titus 2:13
@DerekSelvon Weirwille as you know heavily emphasized E.W. Bullingers scholarly work titled "Figures of Speech" what Weirwille failed to emphasize is that E.W. Bullinger was quick to point out the the term "Son of God" with the Article as it related to Christ meant DEITY. That Jesus was God. Thus Weirwille's own star witness dealing with Figures of speech actually disagreed with Weirwille. The Son of God means Deity and that he shared in the very Nature of God thus is God. Phil 2:5-12
@DerekSelvon - Yeah, Cody has evidence of U cussing him out. U said "prick", "fuck you", besides other less-then-biblical language. Calling him an "effeminate prick" also shows UR self-centered ego/pride. U like figuratively beat UR chest & spew nastiness & condescend to others, like Cody?
U obviously don't submit URself TO Eph 4:15, 1 Cor 13:3-5, Col 4:5-6, Gal 5:22-24, James 3
@harry4health You are right. My behavior towards Cody is not in harmony and alignment with the verses listed above. I responded with pride and arrogance rather than agapeo. Thank you for bringing this to my attention.
@DerekSelvon - Thanks for the apology for your nasty & anti-biblical attitufde & langauge & treatment of others 2 weeks ago. However, then U turn around 2 weeks ago & 1 week ago & say to Cody:
"Ok. FUCK YOU!!
"Piss off, cody" "
It didn't take much for U to get nasty, vulgar, obscene & perhaps as U said U did before "not in harmony and alignment with the verses listed above. I responded with pride and arrogance rather than agapeo.".
UR no different than those who don't say they're Christians
@MSA6001 Some of the greatest adultryers in the God's World both men and women came from the way in the 70's - 80's. It also seems that the world was a lot better place to live in due to these fornicators. You want change, -Then Renew your mind on the Word not the World.
LOL I'm apart of the Way International of Philadelphia and i dont know anything about brain washing or this things about controling u lol ha ha ha and Jim Jones has anybody seen this movie like really come on dont take everything u see into account the word says that you should look into the word for your self and this is what the ministry is doing the only reason why ppl say you should consider this ministry a cult i cause they are nondenominational. ignorance i say
@MsInspireYou Seriously! So much of this stuff i find on the internet about the way is just nauseating.
chicotweener36 4 days ago
This is all a lie, I have been associated with this ministry for over 30 years. Brain washing, yeah right. The truth doesn't have to be argued.
MsInspireYou 4 days ago
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MsInspireYou 4 days ago
@Becksny75 im 21 and been born and raised in the word. i remember asking my mom ( a '72 '73 WOW ambassador and still standing) about about some of the stuff ive read online, such as the "sex orgies." Her response, " Why didnt anyone invite me? wasn't I attractive?" lol.
chicotweener36 6 days ago
lmao that has never happened!! I have been part of the way for over 30 years and these are lies.
Becksny75 1 month ago
weird i got sent here but to give a lil back story to where we learn Jesus is God John 8:58 states " Before Abraham was , I am" Now reason he said that was that Jesus was talking about Abraham intimately (knew things to the point that he had to be there) and the pharisees pointed out how could he know such things when Abraham was over 2000 years ago and he was just a man over 30.
whycntwebfriends 1 month ago
@whycntwebfriends The greek of John 8:58b is πριν αβρααμ γενέσθαι εγω ειμι better translated prior Abraham [came to being] I EXIST. Jesus made an emphatic propositional statement. He either did exist prior or the statement is false and Jesus is a liar or mad man. Jesus didn't give any other option. This is not the only message that Jesus gives concerning preexistence.
GenerationY1000 1 month ago
I am simply saying God is our creator and our cause for being here and Jesus Christ is the son of God. I do not believe Jesus Christ is God. I think ever since we were young we were always taught God is Jesus and Jesus is God. I always had a problem with that one. I think common sense would tell us the difference.
gslblues 1 month ago
@gslblues Respectfully speaking, where did we get the idea that Jesus was God? Common sense shows that Jesus is NOT the Father for sure but the Son of God as you have said. But what does that mean according to scripture and the ancient semetic languages? Does scripture support a created or uncreated position for "The Son of God"? If created then he can't be God but if uncreated then the Church is correct to apply to the Son of God a title such as God the Son.
007bfitz 1 month ago
@gslblues If Christ is Not God as you say then he too must be of the created order-hence not all-knowing, omnipresent, omniscient, or Good for that matter. Thats just a few of the attributes that Only God can fill-thats common sense right? Now if Christ is Not God then he can not be any of those thngs can he? Now does scripture apply the same attributes to Jesus that only God can fill?
007bfitz 1 month ago
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"That all should Honor The Son even as They Honor The Father." John 5:23
This is proof positive that Jesus HIMSELF made HIMSELF EQUAL with God the Father and, as such, called Himself GOD.
For Jesus to say that HE gets the SAME HONOR as The Father is clear language. The Father gets Honor as God, so does The Son ACCORDING TO THIS TEXT!
PureAirSolutions 2 months ago
I would like to know one thing, how can god be the son of himself ? I would like to know also, if Jesus was god then why did Satan try to tempt him? If anyone knows that god cannot be tempted, Satan knows better than all of us put together.
gslblues 2 months ago
@gslblues Not for sure of your position about God and who you believe him to be. Could you please clarify? Are you saying that The Father is God? Are you saying the Son is God? Are you saying The Father cannot be tempted because he is God and the Son can be tempted therefore he is Not God? Clarifying your position would better help me to fully know where you are coming from so I can at least attempt to give you an answer.Thanks if ya would.
007bfitz 1 month ago
@gslblues First you have to define God and who He is... Can God become a man... I agree God is not a man but who said God can't become a man? If God being a spiritual being (not physical) so not confined to a space that is omnipresent.. Why is it not possible for God to occupy a human body and occupy Heaven at the same time. Augustine view God existing in Time all at once. Wrap your head around that... I think before answering these questions lets see what Jesus said about himself.
GenerationY1000 1 month ago
@gslblues It seems to be by your statement that you may be misunderstanding the churches position about God. The Church believes that there is a person called the Father and there is a persn called the Son so when we say Jesus is God we have never meant that he was the person of the Father. So he is not the Son of himself but of the Father and both collectively make GOD just as MAN collectively is man and woman. TheChurch does NOT believe that the Father and Son are the same PERSON. One in Unity
007bfitz 1 month ago
I grew up in The Way Ministry and I am 36 years old...NOBODY ever told me what to think or say...we were taught that Gods Word was the truth and the only truth...it is the rightly divided Word! Yes. DOCTOR Victor Paul Wierwille is asleep no...awaiting the return of our Lord Jesus Christ! God bless those of you who do not know The Way and I will pray for you!
MultiMomof4kids 4 months ago 2
haha thats really funny why dont you show me just one of those hundreds of verses
HwcomptonTV 4 months ago
@HwcomptonTV
John 1:14 Και ό Λόγοσ σάρξ έγένετο και έσκήνωσεν έν ήμιν. Directly translated: And the logos flesh became and tabernacled with us. It is interesting VPW didn't address this in his book. Concerning the use of the word Logos by contemporaries in the 1st century and why the author (John) would equate the logos coming into the place only God dwells. This is a big one.
GenerationY1000 4 months ago 3
1) VP Weirwille is dead. 2) from what I could see of this video and comments, there was a great deal of lies and half truths mixed in with those "facts"
Walkonby19 5 months ago
TRUE!
wellthatsnotenough 5 months ago
Victor Paul Weirwille is deceptive because he gives the illusion that he understand greek and hebrew. When he does not. Anyone who claims to have a doctorate in theology but lies about having greek and hebrew as he did when he went to Princeton is not a real doctor in my opinion.
GenerationY1000 5 months ago 2
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Was checking into this 'way international' and believe I've seen enough
to know - they's a pole cat in the hen house.
At no time, for any reason would or should there ever be a need for any
man ( or woman ) claiming to live for god to spread his word to have
not just women, married or single, but young little girls to 'kiss' him on the lips.
One visit, try to kiss my kid... goodbye!
harbek2000 6 months ago
Was checking into this 'way international' and believe I've seen enough
to know - they's a ploe cat in the hen house.
At no time, for any reason would or should there ever be a need for any
man ( or woman ) claiming to live for god to spread his word to have
not just women, married or single, but young little girls to 'kiss' him on the lips.
One visit, try to kiss my kid... goodbye!
harbek2000 6 months ago
CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT My stepfather was a part of this cult and beat the shot otta me because the way believes in physical obedience. He hated me because I am a catholic. That mother fucker and his cult can rot in hell.
Kemjmcg19 6 months ago 2
They even teach a lie about the Holy Spirit. They seperate the father and the holy spirit who they believe is a force not a being/God. So when THEY want holy spirit to refer to the Father the H and S are capitalized, and when referring to "the gift" the lowercase it the h and s
chucky55122 7 months ago
@chucky55122 yes they actually commit the unforgivable sin-denying the Holy Spirit-in my opinion.
42cody1 5 months ago 3
@42cody1 Im glad Ive come to the truth but im not sure about my fams salvation, especially when it has been presented to them. Though they are blinded they are picking man over God. Though they fit the word to make sense to their beliefs, you dont see its not interpreted correctly, its still what Wierwille thinks goes. They strictly focus on Jesus being a man, the son of man, u miss on diety verses now or interpret them differently.
chucky55122 5 months ago 5
@42cody1 The way denies they dead have consciousnesses, so n\I see no wonder why I or my fam have never heard of the transfiguration, or the rich man and Lazurus, same thing with the trinity, they dont speak on Jesus being the I am, things I had to learn, and see for myself. Jesus seeing Abraham and the Jews were mad. The Way doesn't even acknowledge the preincarnation. EVen the Witnesses see that he existed before his human birth, thats clearly taught
chucky55122 5 months ago 7
@chucky55122 I found a verse John 6:38 where Christ says"For I came down from Heaven not to do my will but the will of him who sent me". It really amazes me how the Way Anti-Christ ministry missses his pre-existence. Chucky thank you for your enlightening comments. Having lived through this as we have NOW we both can testify. Godbless the true Gospel as we await the coming our our Great God and Savior Jesus Christ. Titus 2:13.
42cody1 5 months ago 11
Also the classes are mind control, and the heresies are only revealed in the classes so you pay them with no refunds oppurtunity. You sit there for 3 hours a day watching a videotape, spiritually its an attempt to soak in all the info they give you and they'll make it make sense. They keep telling you Jesus is just a man so that's all they mention never explaining his verses of deity. If you fall for it, you'll be brainwashed into not seeing Jesus is God
chucky55122 7 months ago
@chucky55122 Im 100% not judging im just wondering since i didn't go to any other church ( im was raised in the way) why do you believe that jesus is god?
TheMaryJaneShow 6 months ago
@TheMaryJaneShow The bible credits Jesus as creator of all, He is the Word that is God and the word that became flesh. God appeared in human form in the old testament and in the new testament, Jesus says I saw Abraham and he delighted to see me. The bible tells us worship no one but God yet Jesus is worshiped without rebuke, Jesus is alpha and omega no beginning nor end, he is The I AM, Jehova, even becoming flesh found as a man he was still equal with God, read Philippians chapter 2
chucky55122 6 months ago
@TheMaryJaneShow The apostles recognize Jesus as God and saviour, God the Father calls Jesus God. Paul recognized the Holy Spirit as God when Annanias lied to the Holy Spirit Paul told him you have not lied to man but God. The bible tells us Emmanuel means The prince of peace, The almight God, the everlasting Father, and God with us. Names Always meant who/what they were. Mr. Weirwille didnt wanna believe Jesus was God, he could only "explain' 4 of many verses that announce his deity, its more
chucky55122 6 months ago
@chucky55122 he missed the hundreds of verses pointing to deity- from what I have learned is that he approached like 4 or 5 verses and tried to explain them away actually uneffectively-he made it look as though there were only just a few verses that pointed to deity rather than the many-doing so sets up a straw man to defeat-so he made the position look weak to begin with then attacked-but this was only to fool those less knowledgeable of scripture.
42cody1 5 months ago 5
@TheMaryJaneShow All I can tell you is that the classes start off with Jesus teaching the son of man side of him. For hours and hours you soak in their point of view, and we can always make the word make sense to our beliefs. Son of God means deity not a created child. bible uses terms like son of god and son of perdition to explain nature, the exact qualities of, as Jesus is credited to being in theFORM of God. The bible also says God was IN Christ reconciling the world to HIMSELF
chucky55122 6 months ago
@TheMaryJaneShow TheJews knew what son of God meant and Jesus going around forgiving sins, only God can do so and for him calling himself son of God, they were ready to stone him, they said because you claim to BE God. In the old testament God is revealed as I Am, Jesus says if you don't believe I Am, you will die in your sins. I learned good things from the way but cults come to denounce the deity of Jesus and the Spirit of God. an ignorance of the trinity and its history lead to this
chucky55122 6 months ago
@chucky55122
I think more dangerous than The Way International are the splinter groups it spawned, like Spirit & Truth Fellowship International which has a channel on YouTube and followers who call themselves Christians while the doctrines are essentially the same.
Keruaran 6 months ago
@chucky55122 Stick with your internal instincts on this... it will serve you.
As ex - JW through childhood, I've spent some time digging to learn more
as time went on.
I am in the father, and the father is in me... let those who have ears, hear, and
let those who have eyes see ----- and he wasn't talking deaf or blind here people.
harbek2000 6 months ago
God had to show me he is triune as well. Sadly my family is stuck on Wiereilles beliefs and mad at me for relearning beliefs, due to their heresies. It amazing how they say that Jehovah Wittnesses are a cult, but The Way is very similar to them. Though falsely interpreted, At least the JW recognize Jesus had a pre-existence
chucky55122 7 months ago
I took the PFAL Class in 1980,but had serious disagreement with their teaching.my twig leader would cuss you out in a heart beat...but I did have fun.I wish I knew where those people are today.
jazzzco 7 months ago
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i live in new knoxville. really the way is about a mile out of town and everyone makes fun of the ones who take it seriously. their way cops are funny as hell to. if you ride your bike on the road that goes through there village the way cops speed up and cut you off. then when you decide you dont care what they have to say they say. "you had better listen and stay off our property or we will call the real cops." btw you need way permission just to visit a friend there.
adamclark94 7 months ago
Speaking for myself, TWI offered more freedom&accuracy w/love and power than any denominational church I ever attended. As a former Marine with an understanding of motivational techniques I approached TWI w/caution&reserve. The WORD,the Holy Spirit, all focused on the Father thru Jesus Christ.Never did I witness any "control".Iwould have walked to the nearest bar in a heart beat.This clip?(My)conclusion: the usual creamy shit about TWI. What happened after 1986 I know not. Let GOD be the judge.
Flickchaser 7 months ago
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@Flickchaser hello sir. I can give you a brief synopsis of what my hub (then bf) and I experienced in The Way. We came across them 1st in Tempe Az then in Tucson. We thought it was great to be teaching out of the bible in a home church. Though we were both newly seeking Christ, formerly Catholics, we came to leave for different reasons. I thought it was bizarre that in order for them to reveal their beliefs you had to go through level classes. Thank God he showd us the true way. Triune GOD!
1celenamesa 7 months ago
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Respond to this video... p.s they also were silent when we asked what the truth is about sexual relations outside of marriage. They said we would learn that in the "advanced" class! Give me a break!!!
1celenamesa 7 months ago
I have seen the same mistakes of the Way made by denominations and "non denominational ministries" . When is the last time you pullled your pastor aside and pointed out error in his teaching ? If you did (which is incredibly rare) How did he respond ? I can probably guess. Many pastors tell you that the bible is the standard and not to take their word for it but few actually mean business. Though they have a responsiblility, so do you for your own faith and walk.
ptrosclair1775 8 months ago
I was in The Way, I have moved on. I believe that Jesus is God and that it is what the bible teaches. However , though I disagree with some of their doctrines, I am still thankful for my experience there. God brought me there and I learned a lot that still benefits me and others. You just have to know how to 1) worship God, not a man 2) Do what Dr.W said and work the Word yourself. 3) accept responsibility for your own spiritual walk.
ptrosclair1775 8 months ago
This is such a bunch of nonsense. I was involved with The Way International for years. I can tell you from first hand experience that there was no "brain washing" there was no violence, there was none of the things that they are accused of. It was not much different than a lot of mainstream churches except that they did not believe in having church buildings and they had some doctrinal differences. I now disagree with some of their teachings but I am glad that I had that experience.
ptrosclair1775 8 months ago
This is obvious anti-propaganda. A bunch of lies. They say one thing and show another. This was aired back in the 70's when the group was still very cool. Some crap did emerge however, but that happens, regardless of religion. They tried to discern the bible for truth, and did a great job, for the most part. On contrast, most Christians are a bunch of sheeple, following idiot leaders. The Way followers were just a little more extraordinary, in my view. Nothing more than a ministry. I was there.
xptechmikie 10 months ago 2
It's amazing how the Devil infiltrated and stopped the spreading of the word after his death. the Devil won this battle so it seems. Whom will he take down next ?
bdhact1 9 months ago
@xptechmikie So true.
ptrosclair1775 8 months ago
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The website "About the Way International" is one of the most comprehensive sites that refutes the false doctrine of The Way International and is done so by qualified scholars with the proper training and education. This site exposes not only the previous sexual misconduct by both its previous leaders but also exposes the hypocrisy of their history. It exposes the dishonesty of Victor Paul Wierwille and his dishonesty in Plagiarism and false interpretaion of scripture. A credible site, pls look.
42cody1 11 months ago 3
So crazy to see this. I was raised in The Way till I was in my late teens.
bonnsterm 11 months ago 3
I hate to interrupt all the bickering, but does anyone know when this aired?
runningcow13 1 year ago
@runningcow13 Hard to say exactly, but from the hair styles and automobiles, I would put it at the early 1980s.
slaveobeys 1 year ago
@runningcow13 this is awesome that's my graduation!!!
maptl 3 months ago
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GodinChristinme 1 year ago
Piss off, cody
DerekSelvon 1 year ago 2
And you shall know their fruits and know that they are not of God. You are of your Father the devil, a liar he was from the beginning and the Father of it. Exposed.........
42cody1 1 year ago
Good defense Derek, now you have just resorted right back to insults just like any other follower of Wierwille or the way international. All I did was quote scripture and inform you on the shallow scholarship of Wierwille and what he doesn't want his followers to know. I think you as well after cussing me repeated and your refusal of scripture have shown without a doubt that you like Wierwille are just as much a false prophet as he is. Nothing else at this point needs 2 be said.
42cody1 1 year ago 3
@42cody1 Ok. FUCK YOU!!
DerekSelvon 1 year ago
I was involved with The Way from about 1976 until the late 1980's. For many years it was a WONDERFUL network of loving, normal people, most of whom knew the Bible better than any preacher I've ever heard/known...which is quite a few. Over time a few problems crept in and, like many other churches, they fragmented. Some people go hook, line & sinker into things as the girl in this video probably did, but if you retain balance, you do fine. I thank God for the Word I learned in The Way.
IndyKenn 1 year ago
I thank God for the Way Ministry everyday. Although I'm not and active member of the way Int. today, I'm blessed and forever will be blessed because of the way ministry. what i've learned from them is priceless.
No one can take your Will, unless you give them your Will...
Everyone lives their choices, and well you're living their choice.... end of story.
sherrylnyc 1 year ago
sherrylnyc - A simple statement such as yours is far from adequate. So-called 'mind control' is not making people robots. Properly understand it & honestly research why many consider The Way Int'l/TWI a mind control group. It goes back to Dr Weirwille, but got worse & flaky under the disgraced LC Martindale & even more worse under Riverbank. Those 2 decimated TWI.
FreedomOfMoind*net
harry4health 1 year ago
I cannot agree that The Way International "brain wash" people. The Bible (the revealed Word and Will of God) commands believers to change, by the entire renewal of the mind; rather than adapt and mimic the ostensible projections of this age - in order to prove something to and for themselves, Romans 12:2.
This is the duty of every believer, but it is a free-will decision and people do this because they want to love and obey God.
This is an unjust accusation to make against that Ministry.
DerekSelvon 1 year ago
Derek-UR reply on brainwashing doesn't address or answer anything on the issue of TWI & mind control/brainwashing. It isn't that Paul is wrong in Rom 12:1-2, it's that VICTOR Paul (Wierwille) & LCM & RiverBARF are wrong on how they define & misuse the apostle Paul. It's shallow thinking to answer the charge by not addressing anything of substance. It's deflecting from the issues. You need to find out what mind control is, why people say TWI fits the definition & decide honestly
FreedomOfMind*net
harry4health 1 year ago
@harry4health The Kingdom of God is not a democracy. People in that ministry are "followers" of the Way. The leaders lead by example; the believers follow with imitation (1 Corinthians 11:1). You are to be in one accord and one mind. The Way International is clearly within its rights to state what is expected of its adherents. They also have the right to demand compliance. If you are not willing to toe the line - you are free to go. That's the way it is with all organizations.
DerekSelvon 1 year ago
@harry4health There is no "mind control" or "brainwashing" in that ministry. If a legal adult makes a decision to give his allegiance, time, etc to them , that is his business. He was not conned into doing it. They are very open about the kind of commitment that they expect from people who want to to be an integral part of that ministry. If you don't want it; just leave. And many people did just that - they left. They were free. They had (and still have) there brains and minds.
DerekSelvon 1 year ago
DerekSelvon - You need to research what 'mind control' is & is not. U don't seem to know enough, or anything. It isn't what they tell U, but the details and etc. FreedomOfMind*net
Please study it w/an open mind & find out why many state TWI is a mind control group. I don't like the term, but it's the common term.
Usually/most of the time when people say TWI, or others, aren't a mind control group they barely know anything about it, not enough, or don't do adequate comparing mind control & TWI
harry4health 1 year ago
@harry4health I have done much research on "mind control". I am also very interested in the people who charge a fee to "liberate" loved ones from cults. People are free to chose. Hundreds have left the Way because they have freewill. But there will always be young and confused and lonely people to feed the machinery of cults. The Way International is not a cult. They research the Word and teach the Word and provide fellowship. That's all there is to it.
DerekSelvon 1 year ago
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@DerekSelvon - If someone wnats to devote time, research & effort, then yes, they need to get paid to do it. Diversionary to point fingers.
If U use the 'people have left TWI because they have freewill' as an argument against TWI as a mind control group, then U still don;'t properly understand it, or the principles & details concerning thought reform or 'mind control'.
I wonder what sources U use in what U say was your research.
It doesn't eliminate their ability to leave. That's shallow
harry4health 1 year ago
@DerekSelvon In my experience with the Way, I wouldn't say mind control but some might see it as mind control depending on the person, some people are weaker than others, I when placing my questions to Leadership about things such as Trinity, the Deity of Christ, never once did I receive any loving instruction but rather extreme sarcasm and then they would eye you real hard and never treat you as well as they used too. That is how I was controlled and brought into complaince to their Leadership.
42cody1 1 year ago
@42cody1 I have heard ALL the arguments that in one way or another attempt to support that God consists of three entities in one and that Jesus is God etc....
You will never convince me of this devilish doctrine through logical argumentation.
I really don't care if you continue with this other Jesus that you have received. I really don't care about your worldly brand of Christianity. I don't care about you or the thoughts of your puffed up, fleshy mind. Like I said: fuck you and your Jesus!
DerekSelvon 1 year ago
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@DerekSelvon -Cody came with reasoning & Bible. U ignored it all, admitted U don't like logic, U told him U dont care about him, smeared him as "puffed up" & claimed he had a "fleshly mind" but told him "fuck you & your Jesus". UR dishonest & carnal. UR a blatant hypocrite, YOU have the "fleshly mind". How blind of U to contradict URself in same post. UR arrogant/puffed up- UR pride & carnal lack of decency & self-control exposes U badly. Empty cliche of "fleshly mind" (TWI buzzword?) is useless
harry4health 1 year ago
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@DerekSelvon - Paul used logical argument with scripture throughout Acts:
Acts 9:22; 13:14-49; 17:1-4,10-13; 18:4-5, 19, 28; 19:8; 26:21-23, 27; 28:23-24, 31. Possibly also Romans 3:9.
It shows your LACK of biblically 'renewed mind' that you knock Cody's "logical argumentation".
U don't reject the Trinity because it isn't biblical. You reject it because of a closed mind, hardened heart & nasty, carnal, anti-biblical spirit & mouth
harry4health 1 year ago
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@42cody1 That is true of ANY denomination or so called "ministry". I have experienced it with a number of them.
ptrosclair1775 8 months ago
Victor Paul Werewolf??? His name alone should tell you something's off.
chthonic19 1 year ago
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Victor P, Werewolf. This man slept with almost every beautiful "follower" the year I took PFAL class. We were all young college students at the time.
He was a perverted, sexual maniac. The bus he used was a moving sleezy motel. I can attest to all I have said and stand by with witnesses if called to do so.
My brother died, as did his wife, soon after they found out the truth about victor p.
The real story remains hidden, I am sure, due to the need individuals have to idolize. .
curlyqpd 1 year ago
@curlyqpd Instead of cutting and pasting the same comment all over YouTube, why not write a fucking blog and tell the whole world? Everybody wants to know!
//He was a perverted, sexual maniac. The bus he used was a moving sleezy motel. I can attest to all I have said and stand by with witnesses if called to do so.//
So am calling on you - DO IT!
//The real story remains hidden, I am sure, due to the need individuals have to idolize. .// What about you?
Why are YOU hiding "the real story"?
DerekSelvon 1 year ago
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some ppl are just stupid
fraterlucifer888 1 year ago
In order to look at the way international for what it really is, just type "john lynn twi" on google and you'll get the truth! Open your eyes, we are living the endtimes and it becomes more difficult to recognize the ennemy for those who don't have a critical and indipendant reading of the Bible!
eyokfla 1 year ago
Some of the greatest believers in the God's Word both men and women came from the way in the 70's - 80's. It also seems that the world was a lot better place to live in due to these power packed believers. You want change, -Then Renew your mind on the Word not the World.
MSA6001 1 year ago
@MSA6001 who are these people you speak of from the 70's and 80's and where are they now? and why would the world be a better place? than it is now? have all these power packed believers now past away? if they are all already dead then what happened to all that life saving power? if they are still alive then why isnt the world a better place due to these power packed believers?
42cody1 1 year ago
@42cody1 Well guess what, many of us are still here, still believing the Word and still remembering the man that taught us that Word, DR. VICTOR PAUL WEIRWILLE.
And please, if you think the world is supposed to be a better place, you best read 1 and 2 Thessalonians and a little bit of 1st Timothy.
We are STILL HERE. We are MOVING THE WORD. Everyone else is free to participate in the fellowship of ignorance and bitterness, but NOT US.
kozanne 1 year ago
@kozanne I was respinding to another post, not that I ever thought the world would be a better place -I believe when Christ comes in his Kingdom it will be a far better place of which I am sure you will agree, so lets find something that we can agree upon with one another. I hope and pray to see you there. I was in The Way Int during the late 80's to almost mid 90's, so I can speak that the people I met were wonderful people. I do not agree with the teaching per say, but good people.
42cody1 1 year ago
@kozanne I mean to direct my attention to mostly the unbiblcal teachings of the Way Int. Not meaning to attack anyone personally. In research of Weirwille-it was good to look at his character because it gave us a fruit that we needed to look at namely dishonesty. I cannot call him Dr. because he in reality never earned one. Dishonesty for example "plagiarism". That is passing the work of someone else off as your own. I encourage you to look into this matter, for your spriitual growth. In Christ
42cody1 1 year ago
@42cody1 I have been hearing this shit for more than 20 years and its simply NOT TRUE. The man was qualified and he never stole any man's work. It is true that he studied the work of many scholars; but he always gave credit where it was due. (BTW thank you for giving the definition of the word "plagiarism") And "the unbiblcal teachings of the Way Int."?? "Unbiblcal" Teachings?? Cody, you're so full of it! Where should I go for the real thing? To you and the Christian Research Institute??.
DerekSelvon 1 year ago
DerekSelvon - Evidence Weirwille plagiarized:
1) "WIERWILLE BORROWS: A Challenge to the Originality of His Teaching on "Receiving the Holy Spirit""
precastconcrete*org/~messiah7/vp_stiles*htm
2) "ANOTHER EXAMPLE OF WIERWILLE'S PLAGIARISM"
precastconcrete*org/~messiah7/vp_plagstil8*htm
harry4health 1 year ago
@DerekSelvon Hello, Derek- I think a good place to start would be the bible, where Christ promised that the gates of hell would not prevail against the church. To believe that Satan prevailed against the Church and engrafted the Deity of Christ is unbiblical and incorrect church history. The evidence is plain to see that Wierwille did in fact plagiarize and it open for anyone to see. The evidence can easily be viewed by Dr. J Judes website "About the Way International".
42cody1 1 year ago
@42cody1 Jesus Christ is not a deity. God is one, not three. All of Christiamdom is satanic. If the teachings of Victor Paul Wierville are "unbiblical and incorrect", fine. Go and worship your Jesus and let Hank the Answer Man think for you. But please stop being an effeminate prick. Christian ministries are not going to change just because you criticize them from the standpoint that you are right and they are wrong. 99% truth is not truth. God will judge their work and God will judge you.
DerekSelvon 1 year ago
@DerekSelvon Derek, I all I am simply doing is expsoing incorrect teaching for what it is. Yes, the teachings of the Way International are unbiblical an its not fine-as we are in a spiritual battle for the souls of men. i gather your wanting me to live and let live. I tell ya what? if you stop praising and putting a false prophet on a pedistal then I will not approach the situation. As far as it being wrong to worship Christ maybe you need to tell the heavenly host. Hebrews 1:6
42cody1 1 year ago
@42cody1 //"Unbibical" teachings. Incorrect Teaching.// You are right. All other disciples who are not with C.R.I. are wrong. This is your assertion??? Fuck you .......... and your Jesus too.
DerekSelvon 1 year ago
@42cody1t.The teachings of the Way are not only Biblicaly accurate but ,they are logical and practical.Nobody and that means nobody can believe what they do not understand and ..nobody can commit to what they do not believe.God never coerced any one into believing His Word.
geoverra66 7 months ago
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@geoverra66 Sorry they are NOT accurate in my experience! They teach you can be without sin if you achieve a certain level!! "If any man says he has no sin he is a liar," says the Word! As a former member, I am grateful he showed me the truth. Jesus is deity. God is triune. It took 2 yrs for that to be revealed, but He is faithful. Read the Word really wanting to know the truth and He will be faithful to all who question the trinity.
1celenamesa 7 months ago
@DerekSelvon I think sticking to facts and being willing to expound upon would be the correct thing to do in this situation, rather than cursing and insulting-which as I have experienced is common among many followers of the Way International whether current or not. I don't doubt your sincerity towards the subject but at least one should try to promote fruits worthy of Christianity. We all fail Derek but can we at least be kind one to another. The church has indeed refuted and answered the call.
42cody1 1 year ago
@42cody1 There are always two or more opinions regarding a "fact". A 'fact' is not truth. I do not agree with your facts. Your "Christianity" is allegorical. We worship two different gods. I worship the God and Father of the Lord Jesus Christ. You chose a Jesus and you chose a Christ. Live with it.
DerekSelvon 1 year ago
@DerekSelvon I as well worship the Father.
42cody1 1 year ago
@42cody1 really? what about the other two - the son and the holy gremlin? you only worship those on your religious holydays?
DerekSelvon 1 year ago
@DerekSelvon Anyways I hope and pray God reveals his nature to you, I am more than willing to share with you scripture about the subject in question. I hope that we could speak kindly to one another in the course of questions. Have a good day Derek, I ma here if you need to talk. Love in Christ.
42cody1 1 year ago
@42cody1 Cody, I apologize for cussing you out. I am sorry.
DerekSelvon 1 year ago
@42cody1 First of all you cannot explain the trinity to anyone because you don't understand it,secondly it does not make any sense,there is nothing mysterious about God,but there is something very fishy with the unsound doctrine of the trinity
geoverra66 7 months ago
@geoverra66 if God were a single being and not triune there would be aspects of his being that are not explainable-such as his being eternal. The being of God whether triune of single is a mystery in itself. Scripture states that That the Father is God Jn 17:3, The Son is God Jn 1:1, Jn 20:28, The Holy Spirit is God but yet there is just 1 God. The Father is eternal common sense, the Son is eternal Micah 5:2, Jn 1:1 and the Holy Spirit is eternal. Father and Son R functional terms 4 relationship
42cody1 6 months ago 2
@42cody1 Life here is not a Jesus movie. It is a spiritual contest. We are in a war zone. I don't have to be kind to you. You are hiding behind a sobriquet and an avatar and you are attacking Christians and Believers and Assemblies and men who worked and built. Where is your work? / Fruits worthy of Christianity/?? WTF? For whom? // We all fail /// Who is "we" ?? fuck you again, 'Cody'.
DerekSelvon 1 year ago
@DerekSelvon Derek, I dont think, I am deserving of such hostility. One thing I can say of Christ is that I dont think he would have ever cussed anyone out as you have me, or would I think the Father would approve of such actions. Anyways, I forgive you.
42cody1 1 year ago
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@42cody1 There are many Jesus(s) and many Christs. There is only one Jesus Christ and HE IS NOT GOD!!!
// One thing I can say of Christ is that I dont think he would have ever cussed anyone out as you have me// You have no evidence to support that assertion.
// or (nor) would I think the Father would approve of such actions// "THE" Father?? You mean 'God the father'?? !/3 of your deity/?
DerekSelvon 1 year ago
@DerekSelvon Derek You have cursed me out recently the evidence is right in our posts, I don't want to have hostility between us please. Christ most definately said "I ascend to my God and your God" upon the resurrection -so I agree that the Father is the Deity of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ-because Christ is also a human being. Christ is also worshipped as well and claims Deity. So its better said Christ as a man died but as God he raised his body from death. Jn 2:19-22 Love in Christ
42cody1 1 year ago
@42cody1 Jesus Christ is not God. 1 John 4: 1-3. (in the flesh, "in"- "en" : to be totally within the realm of something.) If Jesus the man was also God, then he could not fulfill the criteria for the sacrifice for the redemption and salvation of man. He had to be 100% man. He is the Son of God - not God the Son.
DerekSelvon 1 year ago
@DerekSelvon Derek, man its forgotten, love ya man I do, Derek its important for us to take the whole council of scripture, Weirwille went to one verse during PFAL dealing with Jn 1:1 he emphasized the Greek word Pros-meaning with that the Word was pros=with God meaning togther with yet distinctly independent of, The church agrees with this definition why because we believe that the Person of the Father and the person of the Son R independently distinct from the othr but both R God collectively
42cody1 1 year ago
@DerekSelvon Derek I will respond a little later, pushed for time at the moment. The Church believes Christ was 100% man according to the flesh and 100% God. I will speak a lil later on this. Love in Christ.
42cody1 1 year ago
@DerekSelvon Christ having "COME" in the flesh meaning he arrived as in from one place to another as opposed to him being born, although he was born. To use the word COME in the flesh is significant that he left one place and arrived at another, thus was pre-existent if preexistent the he had to also be of another Nature as well for the biblical record was that "he came down from Heaven" John 6:38 to do his Father's will. Thus he is NOT the Father and he didn't begin on the Earth.
42cody1 1 year ago
@DerekSelvon if he is Not the Father and he was from Heaven and having come to Earth to be born as a Man, what was his nature prior to having COME in the flesh. He couldnt have been a man by logic, or an angel by logic? our only other choice is that he has to be God. Why? He receives the same Worship as God receives. Hebrews 1:6, He is callled God Jn 1:1, Rev 1:17, Titus 2:13, Jn 20:28, Jn 10:30, He is Equal Jn 5:18, plus he existed before the foundation of the world as a person. Jn 17:5
42cody1 1 year ago
@DerekSelvon If one applies the correct definition to the term Son of God and how it applied to those in the 1st century semetic languages we would see something beautiful emerge, it would mean that Christ was of the Sameness of Nature and Equality of being as seen in Jn 5:18 and this is why the Jews wanted to kill him because he claimed he was Equal to God.Jn 5:18, Jn 8:58 because he being a Man was claiming he was God. Jn 10:30 Trully the Great God and Savior of us Jesus Christ. Titus 2:13
42cody1 1 year ago
@DerekSelvon Weirwille as you know heavily emphasized E.W. Bullingers scholarly work titled "Figures of Speech" what Weirwille failed to emphasize is that E.W. Bullinger was quick to point out the the term "Son of God" with the Article as it related to Christ meant DEITY. That Jesus was God. Thus Weirwille's own star witness dealing with Figures of speech actually disagreed with Weirwille. The Son of God means Deity and that he shared in the very Nature of God thus is God. Phil 2:5-12
42cody1 1 year ago
@DerekSelvon - Yeah, Cody has evidence of U cussing him out. U said "prick", "fuck you", besides other less-then-biblical language. Calling him an "effeminate prick" also shows UR self-centered ego/pride. U like figuratively beat UR chest & spew nastiness & condescend to others, like Cody?
U obviously don't submit URself TO Eph 4:15, 1 Cor 13:3-5, Col 4:5-6, Gal 5:22-24, James 3
harry4health 1 year ago
@harry4health You are right. My behavior towards Cody is not in harmony and alignment with the verses listed above. I responded with pride and arrogance rather than agapeo. Thank you for bringing this to my attention.
DerekSelvon 1 year ago
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@DerekSelvon - Thanks for the apology for your nasty & anti-biblical attitufde & langauge & treatment of others 2 weeks ago. However, then U turn around 2 weeks ago & 1 week ago & say to Cody:
"Ok. FUCK YOU!!
"Piss off, cody" "
It didn't take much for U to get nasty, vulgar, obscene & perhaps as U said U did before "not in harmony and alignment with the verses listed above. I responded with pride and arrogance rather than agapeo.".
UR no different than those who don't say they're Christians
harry4health 1 year ago
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@MSA6001 Some of the greatest adultryers in the God's World both men and women came from the way in the 70's - 80's. It also seems that the world was a lot better place to live in due to these fornicators. You want change, -Then Renew your mind on the Word not the World.
eyokfla 1 year ago
LOL I'm apart of the Way International of Philadelphia and i dont know anything about brain washing or this things about controling u lol ha ha ha and Jim Jones has anybody seen this movie like really come on dont take everything u see into account the word says that you should look into the word for your self and this is what the ministry is doing the only reason why ppl say you should consider this ministry a cult i cause they are nondenominational. ignorance i say
zingbek 1 year ago
@zingbek Many different people have had different experiences, yours may not be the same as others.
42cody1 1 year ago
Thank You for sharing this !
wellthatsnotenough 1 year ago 2