Who is this woman? What a bunch of bull - I'm Canadian, 64 years old and know the cdn system well. These "FACTS" she is barfing up are pure garbage. Sorry to hear about her mom getting poor care but I guess no one in the US is ever misdiagnosed and no one in the US ever dies. I have cancer, received immediate attention (chemo, radiation) and am doing OK now. Where does the GOP (see - I know something about US politics) find these people?
Sally Pipes represents the Pacific Research Institute which is a conservative think tank. No surprise this is her take on Canada. Canada does not have perfect health care but it does NOT have 50 million people without access to any medical care like the US does. Her same group advocates for the dismantling of Medicare/Medicaid which helps millions of poor and elderly in this country and is their only access to medical care.
Sally pipes is right. If you make 3 Million a year, you don't want universal health care, You'd rather just watch the common folk suffer or die off. Come on! Who does she think she is talking to? Does she think average Americans earn anywhere near what she does? She is completely out of touch. I'll tell you what Sally, I've been working for 35 years and now that I'm disabled I have no health care. Waiting 20 years for a procedure is still better than NO procedure.
This just makes me laugh. Of course the rich American can't understand why universal health care is the best thing for the people. And believe me, lady - when we want good health care, we stay in Canada. We may not be THE best health care in the world, but it sure beats what you have down there. I'd rather wait a little for superior treatment that I don't have to pay ridiculous amounts of money for.
How good would you guys say Canada's Healthcare on a scale from 1 to 10?
+
She should take a look at some Californian emergency rooms. (UC Davis Medical Center) I went overnight, and what did I see? All these people in the hallways sleeping overnight on stretchers. The exact thing she's complaining about in Canada.
@RastafariPoet Don't forgett the governemnt plays a big role in US healtcare with over 50% of the money coming from government. California also has CON laws which prevent the construction of new hospitals. Also many people are in the ER because it is free.
Yes, we have had some longer waits in Canada, but they are getting smaller and the problem is being addressed.
She fails to mention a few things. 1)Dr.Day owns the largest for profit clinic in Canada. He has a vested interest in privatization. 2)many Cdns residing near U.S. border, closer to a major U.S. hospital, will get emergency care there, and it's not out of pocket. There are many Cdn elderly who vacation in Florida in Winter mnhts and get care there.
No, SHE IS NOT LYING. It's the truth, even when you don't like to hear it. I do not see the problem is being addressed. I live in London ON and I can tell you dozens of stories about myself, my family members, friends and relatives that we have had terrible experiencies with the E.R.'s, doctors and nurses. Only if you are lucky you get good and prompt treatment otherwise the rule is negligence and lack of empathy.
@Talitwo Yes, she IS lying. I live in Edmonton AB. I can tell you that when my family members and I have had a TRUE emergency, we have gotten timely and prompt care. I have had long emergency wait times when it HASN'T been a true emergency but had no choice but to go after medical centre hours. The fact is that if you're in Canada and do have a medical emergency, you will get care. And for reg care, cancer care, and care for ongoing care for my elderly father, it is good and NO ONE goes broke
@Knoss Canada has a higher foreclosure rate than the U.S? Are you insane? U'd better check ur numbers again. And I was talking about no one going broke in Canada from medical bankruptcy and that's a fact. Yes some services aren't covered like dental and drugs (which are MUCH cheaper in Canada btw) but we are still light years ahead of the U.S.
People like you have probably never had to pay for an expensive operation. U don't know how lucky u really are to have that system ur bashing.
@stama9 Canada is behind the US in drug development. The American pharmecutical industry is a leader in producing new drugs. Because of regulation Canada has far less development and new drugs often don't come onto the market after they have been in the us for several years.
@Knoss Yeah, they're called safety regulations and they're put there for a reason. The drugs are also much cheaper in Canada than the U.S. which is why recently there was talk of re-importing drugs into the U.S. from Canada, which means you can get just about anything in the Cdn market that you could on the U.S. market.
Also, half of the worlds biggest pharma companies are in the E.U. Y'know, the world's largest market that also provides Med.care and price controls for its people.
@Knoss The American Govt (through taxpayer support) funds the NIH (Natl. Institute of Health) actually starts the research and development of drugs for diseases the pharmaceutical industry won't because there's no profit potential. Big Pharmaceuticals also take the research from the NIH and use it to make they argument that they need high prices do to their incredible research costs. Don't be fooled that all the research and development is private sector. It not.
@Knoss The American Govt (through taxpayer support) funds the NIH (Natl. Institute of Health) actually starts the research and development of drugs for diseases the pharmaceutical industry won't because there's no profit potential. Big Pharmaceuticals also take the research from the NIH and use it to make they argument that they need high prices do to their incredible research costs. Don't be fooled that all the research and development is private sector. It not.
I agree with her on that the waiting list in Canada is pretty long, but only for people with non-life threatening conditions. People like the woman's mother would no doubt get immediate medical treatment.
Alberta has a Two Tiered health care system, like this woman is proposing, but it has done very little to reduce wait times or free up beds. Yes it has reduced wait times for the most affluent, but this has a side effect of reducing philantropic donations to public hospital facilities. In other words, If the rich arent using public hospitals, why would they fund them? This system is not working in the "weathiest" province, how is it going to work as a National policy?
In every statist medical monopoly, there will exist a plethora of tiers and sub-tiers.
There is the lucky majority, who have no serious defect, and who do not have to deal with the bureaucracy to any large extent. Then there are others, who aren't as fortunate, and whose opinions will likely be radically different.
There are the old, who are perceived as a parasitical burden by the doctor-bureaucrats and their paymasters, and treated accordingly.
There are the productive young, who tend to get expedient care, but who will also have to pay heavily inflated prices, to fund both the old and the bloated medical bureaucracy.
And then there are the Nomenklatura - employees in the medical field, the political class and public figures whose opinion matters to the media, who either by special grant or by insider knowledge can navigate the bowels of the bureaucracy, and get the treatment they need in an expedient fashion.
So i quit work and applied for the Medical Assistance Program (MAP) provided by my county. They admitted me and had the surgery in 1 week, no questions asked, and for only $15.
I am now able to get a better job and contribute to society more so than before... as a nurse!
I had severe hernia that i could not get repaired due to the extreme cost of insurance (over 1/3 of my salary) only to find it was classified as a preexisting condition, thus not covered.... It took 3 painful years to save enough money to have the surgery.
Go to any emergency room in the states and it's filled to the brim with children that have the sniffles. Parents are such damn hypochondriacs...what does this have to do with the discussion? I'm not quite sure...
what it proves is that countries should have tiered system- private AND public payment options for various services to suit different cases to their needs best.
in canada, i go to a family doctor and can get an appointment within the week. the statement that all people are waiting 17 weeks is absurd and wrong. it only proves more doctors are needed to help it work for an extended list of services, not that people dont want a system to pay for basic productivity-enabling care through taxation
Yeah,the US is a great place to be ill...if one has fantastic insurance.If not,count on not being able to pay the rent or mortage for a minor emergency room visit(I know.I had 10 stitches last year that cost $2,000 and that was after insurance)or with something major,you may have to sell your house or remain in debt for life,and that's the lucky ones.The uninsured often do receive substandard care and are turned away for nonlife threatening emergencies.Canada's not perfect,but give me it anyday.
So this hotshot says we should adopt America's healthcare "system" and have our people succumb to Third World illnesses just so a few rich fucks can pay for superior healthcare for their loved ones. We can get more doctors (hell there are plenty of immigrant doctors whose skills we haven't even begun to use), we can reform our hospitals, and build a better public healthcare system that serves people better and easier. Privatization would mean that everyone loses but the wealthy.
Yea, the waiting lists aren't so long outside of Canada because people with no insurance or money don't get on them and those that have funds get seen right away since everyone else is SOOL
Pathetic video, focus is on time waiting, because that is the ONLY area where American health care competes. Her anecdotal story about how her mother was lower priority than other people is supposed to make us go "oh my!" but in America, that same thing happens, except instead of age, we use money to decide priority of care. Obviously 2-tier system should be available, seems like Canada dropped the ball on that one, which is why some come here. But nonetheless, Sally's talk is very dishonest.
Government intervention in health care in unconstitutional. Keep it in Canada and Europe. If they MUST get involved they can get rid of the bureaucracy.
No one in my family has ever had to wait for to see a doctor or have a surgical procedure in Canada. Not sure where she is getting her stats. The doctor she referred to, Dr Brian Day, operated on a friend's knee several years ago. Day went into the more lucrative business of selling MRI and CT scans through his private (for profit) clinics. While he's a good doctor, he's an even better businessman.
Riiiiiiight. Public healthcare is an abomination, and we should all go back to where the richest get the best treatment, just because they are rich, and the poor get none at all.
In a public system resources are wasted and costs rise due to the inherent bureaucracy of government. To remain efficient and accessible, it needs good stewardship. We have not had that for a while, so the problems are compounding.
In a private system, you will always pay cost+ profit. Just as you do when you buy a shoe or a house. Similarly, you'll get what you can afford. And therein lies the problem. Private insurance? Do you think another layer of profit reduces what you pay?
Interesting anecdotal evidence. I especially like how she takes one doctors incompetence and implicates the whole system for it. Of course shes as unbiased as they get.
btw americans that keep on claiming that US system is so awesome etc.. You portray the rest of the industrialized world as if it were some kind of third world country. It aint, and most studies show better overall care in western Europe than US. Now in some cases, the best care you can get is in the US, but it is not true in all cases, dont fool yourselves.... anyways.. america is interesting so we´ll keep watching you but your shit smells too.. and it smells real bad
I love how she says canadians should get the private health care option that that politician she mentioned had.
But even if they had that option in canada they would still have to pay for it like she did, wouldnt they?
And one thing that I think people forget.. No system is perfect. Many of the national health care systems do have waiting lines that can be long, but no system is perfect. Not being able to get a perfect system is not an excuse for keeping a shitty one, IMO
Q99X, False, anyone who wants to can walk into a U.S. hospital and get treated immediately. I'll stay here thank you. It's far from perfect, but if you have a life threatening emergency or cancer there's no better place in the world to be. The price could be improved, but not by government intervention. Only by removing government regulations could we increase competition to serve patients thus lowering cost. Basic Austrian economics. Politicians cannot be trusted.
Please stop exaggerating. Nobody is forced to starve because they can't pay a medical bill.
1. Everyone is free to make money & purchase a low cost insurance with a high deductible. It would be much lower in cost without government regulation.
2. Hospitals & clinics provide no interest financing plans with low affordable payments. These bills would be even lower without government regulation.
3. We already have programs & charities for people born with disease & no insurance.
Those are charity events. Nothing wrong with charity.
If parents purchased health insurance, the vast majority of child care would be covered.
In extreme cases, children need extreme levels of care. Insurance can help enormously, but insurance (public or private) is not a bottomless pit filled with money. What insurance covers depends on the contract. The problem today, is that patients are not free to shop around for the best contract thanks to the government.
No one is forced to starve, but if you are responsible and have savings, you get no help and have to pay ridiculous prices. Because I am responsible and had savings, I had to pay over $10,000 because I went to the ER with an upset stomach ache late at night.
Were you responsible enough to purchase a health insurance policy? If you were it wouldn't cost you 10,000.
I had an emergency surgery to cut out a rapidly spreading infection. Because I had a policy with a high deductible, I've been paying off the bill for a couple years. But I'm very happy with this outcome, because I'm alive & healthy. More than I can say for people that have to wait for surgeries in countries that have government run healthcare.
Here we go again. The point is that many people can't afford to buy a health insurance policy on their own and they can't get insurance from their job, or they don't have a job, or the insurance from their job costs a lot and basically gives them nothing anyways. I've been through all of that and if you think this is untrue then you are very fortunate. Not everyone can afford to spend two month's pay to buy a year's worth of insurance that might not pay out even in the case that you get sick.
Not only that, my point was that the "normal price" for sitting in a bed and getting some tests done late at night is $10,000.00. Who the fuck can afford that? Why is the price so high? It's ridiculous.
No offense, but I'm a skeptic. I've been to the emergency room & my bill has never been anywhere near 10,000. Even if you're not exaggerating, that bill is not going down with national healthcare. It's just being forced on other people. That is robbery.
Plus the easiest way to reduce cost without screwing up the industry & forcing trillions of debt on our children is to simply allow freedom. Freedom to compete to serve patients. Why is that so hard?
No, the point of healthcare reform is to drive down costs that have been artificially inflated by the presence of insurance, and reduce the exorbitant profits of insurance company monopolies. the money doesn't comes out of the pockets of people who have been robbing us for decades upon decades.
and i disagree that it would be wrong to collectively pay the bills of the less fortunate. you want us to believe it's right to bankrupt people just so we can have lower taxes? those aren't my morals.
Your plan will bankrupt this entire country. That is far more malicious than allowing people to learn from their mistakes & allowing charities to help the less fortunate.
The politicians & their supporters are ignoring simple laws of economics. When they say healthcare reform will drive down cost, they are lying. When they say a public option will increase competition. they are lying. Insurance companies are not monopolies. & even if they were, replacing them with a government monopoly is worse
What other country with universal healthcare (or something cheaper and less, like the U.S.'s new plan) has bankrupted their country? What makes you think ours will? Did Medicare bankrupt our country too? Did social security? You want to get rid of all of those and let people die if they aren't rich, just admit it.
If a government consistently spends more than it takes in, it ultimately leads to collapse. It doesn't matter whether it spends on national healthcare or wars. Once its debt to income ratio becomes too high, other countries stop lending, it desperately prints money, currency becomes worthless, people starve to death. Examples: Hungary 1946, Zimbabwe today, Yugoslavia 1994, Germany 1923, Greece 1944, Rome & many more. We already have somewhere around 100 trillion dollars in unfunded liabilities.
This is like me telling you that a person with a low paying job will go bankrupt if they shop themselves into $100,000 of credit card debt. And you telling me, if I cannot name someone who went bankrupt buying toys, then as long as that person spends the 100 grand on toys he won't go bankrupt. You're sweating the details & missing the elephant in the room. It does not matter what you spend it on. All that matters is the ratio of debt to income. If you cannot understand this, you are not rational
Nice strawman. Although I could list similarities in behavior between a maxed out credit card customer & our out of control government with evidence, that wasn't the point. The similarity I pointed out was in the application of your faulty logic.
What's with the 3 strikes I'm out? Do you get satisfaction by pretending you won an argument, like the creationists you despise? You're right. I'm out... out of patience for the close-minded, economically illiterate, & rationally inconsistent.
How the fuck is that a straw-man? I restated exactly what metaphor you were claiming. I clearly showed the fallacy you were committing, and then you come back at me and accuse me of bad logic and straw-manning you. If I straw-manned your argument then tell me the stronger form of it. There isn't one. If you are so literate then you need to work on your argumentation skills because you've done nothing but beg the question three times, so unless you grow a new brain I do hope you are done.
Look, there's so much wrong with every argument you've put here I'm pretty much done unless someone besides you needs me to go on. PM me or leave a comment, anyone but this guy, if you don't see what's wrong with his argument(s). AFAICT it's obvious and he's just going to keep making blunders ad infinitum until I give up so he can "win." Not really interested in seeing who can answer back the most. He's still wrong, and how many times do I have to show it and then see it deflected w/ lies?
When you accuse someone of begging the question or lying, use a quote to back it up. Don't be offended if I challenge your interpretation when you change my words. My original argument was not that "health care is like a person getting $100,000 of credit card debt." First of all, you took 7 words out of context, leaving the meat of the metaphor behind. Plus you inserted the words "health care." My metaphor did not represent healthcare. It represented our debate & more specifically your argument.
Is it not already? To be honest you are probably right. Americans are probably not capable of a public option. Maybe in 20 years, but not right now. I do not know why America is so far behind the rest of us, or how you can alter it but after reading and watching you all discuss it I am beginning to think you are right. Americans are just not ready.
I think it is going to require a cultural and educational revolution beforehand.
Little known fact to some liberals is that america has no waiting lists in any clinics, american doctors never misdiagnose and even the poorest people can afford quality treatment.
The market only works where there is a profit to be had. It is not magic.
The trouble is there is no profit in insuring people who can't afford it and/or have ongoing conditions.
In answer to this point other free market enthusiasts have told me the uninsured and destitute should rely on charity. I must pass the hat round at my office to see how this works.
"My brother is schizophrenic & needs treatment for the rest of his life. I know you gave last week, but how about another $10?"
i still do not understand how it is ethical to make obscene profits off of other people's health or lack there of. do you really think that the people working for insurance companies are living modestly in suburbia? No! theyre living rich and fat off of other people's health or potential illness. its twisted! consumerism can be fine in places, i just dont think that heath, people's livelyhood, is one of those places
Government involvement in medicine (Medicare) has driven prices so high that insurance is the only way to afford it and now the price of insurance is so high it is nearly unafforable. Government involvement is the problem. Government destroys the free market mechanisum.
Yeah, this is all fine and good. But the US healthcare is certainly worse. People who have pre-existing conditions are screwed if they get dropped/go uninsured. Their lives get ruined by bankruptcy, on top of whatever condition they have.
I'm not sure the relevance of this woman's point, suffice to say it is a bit of a strwaman, and a red herring, and does nothing constructive to address the basic healthcare inequalities in the USA.
I'm canadian and here it's by priority,,, Something that can wait will be delayed but something urgent, like my operation to the appendicitis was treated immediately... For the same operation In the U.S I would have been charged a 20 000$ bill and here it cost me a huge.... 0.00$ LOLL Yes our system is not perfect and you can find stupid cases but, overall, it's pretty adequate...
exactly! the people on that waiting list she was talking about almost undoubtidly had minor complaints that could certainly wait. They're not going to let someone with 3rd degree burns wait 3 weeks for treatment.
and there are doctors world wide that dont do their jobs properly so that one that didnt diagnose her mother is nothing exceptional, just a bad day. maybe hypochondria would decrease if you couldnt go to the doc for every little sneeze
to be honest people do wait months to a year sometimes more for a specialist visit. that could be non life threatening but shitty like if you have your colon pierced, and need an operation to fix it, you are stuck wearing diapers for a year. it sucks but its not life threatening. but if you need a specialist for diagnosis, it can be life threatening starting any medically necessary care months to a year later will certainly impact some lives.
@cominatrix i dont know about you but im not waiting a month to get my flu dealt with or my foot injury. i live in america and if i get the flu or sick or hurt i can be in my private doctors office the next morning at the latest. the wait then takes 10 minutes. and treatment about as long too. and it only costs minimal compared to the taxes that will happen in a socialized system.
She is right about elderly people being ignored by the medical professionals. They figure that you have lived your life and it would cost too much to treat you. Of course I am generalizing but this is true none the less.
How much was this woman paid by US healthcare? They can afford to pay people to speak up for them, but they can't afford to cover the people that need care?
PRI is a conservative think tank designed to push thier agenda nothing more nothing less.They often use reports that are considered junk or have been discredited to fit their message, People kill me with this they gotta wait in canada for heathcare shit, well at least they are waiting for healthcare as opposed to waiting to die which is what she is proposing, she should take those corporate dollars she gets to help find a solution to this mess instead of just adding to it.
If this story doesn't do the job she will be busy dreaming up another one with her think tank colleagues. There will be meetings and brainstorming sessions followed by presentations and audience response analyses. All paid for of course by the health insurance companies - a beautiful example of how the free market can deliver any commodity if the price is right. The product in this case being of course propaganda.
she isn't lying. she clearly does have an agenda, but what she has said about our Canuck health care is in no way inaccurate. I would be a crusader like her if my mom died from our sometimes substadard care here. you should be less judgemental about her. she is calling truth to power and the powers that be in your country and mine don't like it.
LeGioNoFZioN: No she is not lying. It's called spin. An honest person without an agenda would compare the good and bad aspects of several systems. Do you think she would ever draw your attention to the failings of health care in the US where laisee faire economics rules? Either the US system is just fine and free from incompetent doctors (LOL) or she is not paid to do that!
If her mum were in America she may have been treated earlier - if she was insured!
she is doing her job, like Al Gore does his, and like the oil industry does theirs. she is promoting an agenda. Her personal experiences make her an effective advocate given her loss. She is like an abortion survivor advocating pro life policies, or an African advocating for DDT to stop malaria. She is not debating her POV, she is arguing for it.
people wait to die here too. not as many people to be sure, but then again we are about 10% of your population so that much is expected. I don't think Canuck health care is shit, but it is deficient and needs to be fixed so these cases do not occur so frequently.
Indeed. Their not on a waiting list at all, they are left to die. If they try to force the issue by going to the hospital, the hospital will only stabilize them, not fix what is wrong, and as soon as they are stabilized, role them out to the curb in a wheel chair, then take back the wheel chair. I'm not joking. Happened to a friend of mine right here in the good old USA. Friend was left on the curb to die. Pay whatever the insurance company's demand, or die!
I speak as an black American, I see blacks who are not able to pay for health care b/c of bureaucracy. i understand that liberals mean well it's just that the conclusion hurts black Americans.
I asked everyone around me this simple question: Would you trade our health care system with one like the U.S.
Not 1 said yes, everyone said no.
I dont know anybody who would say yes to this question, why? Maybe because, we, canadian like our system, it's not perfect but EVERYONE IS COVERED, EVERYONE.
Yeah, that has been my experience too. A handful of my family members are Canadian, and not a single one of them nor their neighbors or friends that I have met would trade for the U.S. system. Also, I am not really sure why this Fora video is relevant, because nobody in the U.S. (outside of Bernie Sanders) is advocating Canadian-style health care. What is being put forward would bring the U.S. slightly toward the Dutch or Swiss model, both of which are market-based models.
Actually the Pacific Research Institute is a very fair and objective organization. Even though it costs them sponsorship from industry groups, they go out of their way to champion the environment and workers' rights when necessary. So you can totally trust them to give you the full picture, fair and balanced.
I live in Canada and never waited for any of the procedures or tests that I had. I don't know any one who has or for that matter anyone that has gone to the U.S. for a procedure.
That said , I think Americans should copy health care ideals from European countries such as France or Germany. In every study I am aware of they rate higher than Canada.
Nothing but lies, distortions, and misinformation. What a surprise, coming from the PRI, a right-wing think tank.
If you're diagnosed with a low thyroid level, it could take you a few months to see a specialist. If your condition is dire, if you need triple, quadruple bypass, a prostate cored out, kidney or gallbalder surgery, or you're exploding from some autoimmune or inflammatory disease, you get in IMMEDIATELY. ETERNAL SHAME on this woman and PRI for promoting for-profit healthcare!
For some reason I can't post a link to the site of the survey.... Colon Cancer Survival Rates
An Overview of Colon Cancer Survival Rates
by Donna Myers
seach that and you'll find it This is a comparison of the usa and europe.... but similar searches will tell you that USA has the highest survival rate in the world for colon cancer, besides japan....
"According to the same study, colon cancer survival rates also vary by country. While the overall five-year survival for colon cancer in America is 62%, it's 43% in Europe. Quality of care may be one reason, but another could be colon cancer screening programs. In general, the earlier colon cancer is detected, the easier it is to treat."
In the case of Ms. Pipes" elderly mother, I think that the real problem was a family doctor who refused to take his patient seriously- a problem which can and does occur in every healthcare system. Refusal to give access to a colonoscopy would have immediately prompted me to sek the advice of another doctor, an option which is always available to Canadians. Wonder why concerned daughter Ms. Pipes did not encourage her mother to go that route at the time her mother first noticed the symptoms?
i am a US citizen living in saskatchewan, canada. i phoned a medical centre yesterday and asked them when i could be seen for the first time (as a new patient) and they gave me an appointment for monday. 3 business days later! i used to live in the states before and it always took several weeks for my PHP to see me. here in canada i dont have to worry about the greedy insurance companies either. AS SOMEONE WHO KNOWS BOTH SYSTEMS, I WOULD NEVER TRADE what i have now with what i used to have!
That must have been a really shitty PHP... But you get what you pay for, and thats the way it should be. Still, your not going to get as good of care in Canada as you will in the United States. The United States has one of the highest survival rates for almost all illnesses. Yet if you don't have health care at all, socialized health care would be a better option. American health care costs more and its done on an individual basis.... but its better care.
Numbers and Sources dude, Numbers and Sources. I say you pulled that claim out of your behind (that'd be colon related eh) and have no data to back it up. The US system is expensive and provides a poor level of care because too many leeches are trying to enrich themselves on the suffering of others.
I thought I already did.... Canadas system of national health insurance is often cited as a model for the United States. But an analysis of 2001 to 2003 data by June ONeill, former director of the Congressional Budget Office, and economist David ONeill, found that overall cancer survival rates are higher in the United States than in Canada:
For women, the average survival rate for all cancers is 61 percent in the United States, compared to 58 percent in Canada. For men, the average survival rate for all cancers is 57 percent in the United States, compared to 53 percent in Canada.
Most Cancer Survival Rates in USA Better Than Europe and Canada
Tuesday, July 21, 2009, 12:55 PM
Wesley J. Smith
I would give you the IP address, but for some reason I cant.
i saw a critique of that study. The numbers are actually practically the same, but in the united states they count a few easily survivable diseases as cancers(they dont in europe) which increases the survival rate
And yet, according to WHO the USA sits at #37 overall and behind canada at #30 for health system efficacy (2000).
A 2002-2003 study has canada at #4 (77/100k) for medically preventable deaths and the US at #14 (110/100K). The authors also note that "it is difficult to disregard the observation that the slow decline in U.S. amenable mortality has coincided with an increase in the uninsured population
My numbers say your numbers bite, and overall canada's health care system works, & USA doesn't
To receive my honest assessment as Cute you're gonna need more than a snippy comment. Being witty, male, attractive and gay would go a ways to earning my Cute evaluation.
as a canadian, i have been consistently impressed with our system. Even procedures considered cosmetic under US plans are covered free of charge and the wait is rarely longer than a week or two.
sorry, i have to leave, i have math homework ( which is far more complicated than social issues i think) due tomorrow, but happy to talk with you. i think your argument is decent and constructive, i think any of the opposition like your opinions is good for the entire debate and reform.
I agree, math is harder.... And good to talk to you too, I have sent you a friend request, maybe we can talk at a later date. Your argument is also well structured, even if I disagree. I am willing to bet there are many other issues we would agree on though. Good night to you too.
that is complete bullshit. never in my entire life have i heard of any story even remotely similar to hers regarding anyone i know. what a giant liar. the Canadian healthcare system isn't perfect, but it works.
They are both flawwed, but in different ways. America has better care, but more expensive care. And its payed more directly, by the customer. Canadian care isn't as good but its cheaper, and payed indirectly by everyone involved....
I notice that she never compared US health stats with Canadian health stats.
The reason for that is that she couldn't do that and still argue that the US system is better. She could only trot out a few facts along with some anecdotal stories.
My mother-in-law, aged 77, went from initial mammogram to surgery in a few weeks. Radiation followed, and now she is healthy a few months on.
911 There is new petition out by bold progressives that needs signatures. It has 120,000 and they want 150,000. I have the link to it in the comment section of my profile. Sign it and then pass it on!
Good News! AARP & the American Medical Assn have just announced that they're supporting the House health reform bill.
Clearly the reason this CEO of a conservative "think tank" is raising these issues is because she believes that we need to go even farther than Canada has in quality of health care, since the US is doing far worse than Canada in terms of wait times, costs, access to care, and all these things CEO lady mentions.
haha she says Belinda went to the U.S. because she only because she could afford it. Then she goes on to say how bad the Canadian system is because it doesn't allow rich people to buy their way through immediately.
My response: If you have money then feel free to go elsewhere for private care, but Canada's public system can only function and service people for free because it is run by the gov. Canada's system works well for the average person, the U.S. system works well for the rich.
Even if what she said was true,it doesn't mean that socialized medicine doesn't work, pretty much all the top 10 health care systems in the world are completely or mostly socialized.
Her anecdotal story about her mom was such a blatant out and out lie that it was sickening to listen to.
"Too old to get a colonoscopy"? Uhm no, try another lie. Seriously I was following the story up until the blatant lie. They don't exclude people because they are "too old", if you believe that, then you probably believe Obama really wants "death panels" for Americans.
Seriously the lies told about healthcare are hilarious.
Why not just speak the truth? The wait times in Canada are a prob
Have any of you that want "free" healthcare (like other countries supposedly have) actually looked at the TAX RATES in those other countries??? So its longer wait times AND HIGHER TAXES to pay for a system that only works in less populated, smaller countries.
You do realize we already spend more than other countries on health care and don't really get better results for the higher spending right?
Health care costs are growing far faster than the rate of income as well, if what we're doing works you'd expect that such costs would drop or would grow in concert with income and at least get equal or better results.
Funny you say that - my 15 year old daughter had chest pains & that morning we had her in the doctors with x-rays and all sorts of tests with RESULTS THAT EVENING. No other country on earth can give you the best medical care in the world, that fast, with those sorts of results using high tech equipment. Have you ever been to a hospital in London? Are you even aware of the problems they have with cleanliness? I've been all over the world i know the reality...it isnt greener on the other side.
2) congrats you haven't bumped into severe problems that result in the health insurance dropping your kid
3) Are you really asserting we've never had problems with cleanliness? I can guarantee if I want to find horror stories anywhere, here isn't special in that respect.
1. Nope but that was on example. I've lived in brazil for 6 months i could give you examples from there if you like? :)
2. I never said our system is perfect. But people WITH insurance, our system is definitely better. Without a doubt.
3. Your answer tells me you are unaware of the problems they have. Google it you will learn more. I work IN hosptials my friend and no we dont have nearly the same problems. Our hosptials are very clean and run very well. Again, not perfect..never said it perfect
1) Hey, you're making the sweeping statement that your experience in London is representative of the rest of the world.
2) so if an insurance company arbitrarily doesn't cover you or you don't happen to have a high income then what?
3) again you're basing this off of what? Article titles and personal experience? Again I can find horror stories for here just as easily if I google it, simply asserting "well here's different" isn't that convincing.
You OBVIOUSLY diddnt read a single word of my last reply. At least read what i write before you reply. Go back and read what i wrote, then try replying again.
obviously you didn't read my reply either, I can find horror stories anywhere, simply stating "it's worse elsewhere" isn't convincing. You also apparently didn't read the part where I don't consider London representative of the world.
you asserting "ours is better" really isn't quantitative, besides most of what I personally rag on is how our health insurance is dealt with and how health care providers must respond in kind.
I CLEARLY said London is ONE EXAMPLE!!! How hard is that to understand? I also said i livedin brazil fr 6 months i can tell you stories that you literally wouldnt believe. I have been to 27 countries and spent a month or so in the majority of those countries - how about you? If i had a week or two to sit here and give you every example then i would, but its common for a person to use an example as a representation of other examples.
1) You made the statement that just because you stayed at London the grass is not always greener on the other side, that makes a sweeping statement about others based on your experience in one place.
2) you do realize that most of our inefficiencies and extra costs stem from the health insurance industry and we spend mountains of extra in funds than other countries do per person per capita.
It's not like I'm arguing "new technology is bad" or "our doctors are more incompetent than other nations doctors" so I don't really get what your beef is with me.
No beef i just dont like when someone completely ignores what i write. I said clearly london was just one example i could think of that you could easily google and find information about.
My point is: folks WITH insurance in the USA have the best health care on earth. Period. Those without...well i agree we have a problem that needs solved.
Also, i AGREE insurance companies are a huge problem. We have many problems that need to be fixed but nationalized healthcare isnt the answer.
3) If you want to argue "if you're rich enough you'll be more likely to live" great, I agree there's plenty of research to back that up in any country, but I'm more concerned with the well being of society.
4) there's that sweeping statement again
5) so I've got to ask, what's your opinion on the public option and what do you think it is, if you do know what it is what version do you think would be the best version and why?
Notice she didn't say how old her mom was, if you knew she was 93, I think that would make a difference. Also, this single case reminds me of believers that talk about their faith in god because their loved one was cured of caner by a doctor... Once case doesn't tell you much.
i have never heard a canadian complain about their health care. but perhaps their wait times would be shorter if they didnt have so many illegal aliens coming across the boarder for free heath care. they should build a fence!
probably because she stating random statistics without citing her sources.
Another thing she seems to enjoy neglecting the time issue when most people can't even afford to look at the option. Some people get dreadful questions like "so which finger can you afford to keep".
The last point most people seem to neglect when making the kind of statements this woman is that Canada's not the only type of health care system
What tune will Sally pipe when she or her US family members are denied coverage by the medical insurance industry she touts for.
Perhaps Canada's supposed wait times would be shorter if their 'socialist trained' medical workers were not being lured away to US hospitals by the promise of big pay checks. Perhaps Canada's wait times will lessen as, sickened by the state of US 'health care', they return home to practice & receive care from a 'socialist' system that cares for all.
Who is this woman? What a bunch of bull - I'm Canadian, 64 years old and know the cdn system well. These "FACTS" she is barfing up are pure garbage. Sorry to hear about her mom getting poor care but I guess no one in the US is ever misdiagnosed and no one in the US ever dies. I have cancer, received immediate attention (chemo, radiation) and am doing OK now. Where does the GOP (see - I know something about US politics) find these people?
waynewin 1 month ago
Comment removed
MsZeitgeist85 6 months ago
Sally Pipes represents the Pacific Research Institute which is a conservative think tank. No surprise this is her take on Canada. Canada does not have perfect health care but it does NOT have 50 million people without access to any medical care like the US does. Her same group advocates for the dismantling of Medicare/Medicaid which helps millions of poor and elderly in this country and is their only access to medical care.
RuleofFive 8 months ago
I am really dissapointed that the California CommonWealth Club would give this crackpot speaking time.
Sally Pipes is a proven liar.
MsZeitgeist85 9 months ago
Sally pipes is right. If you make 3 Million a year, you don't want universal health care, You'd rather just watch the common folk suffer or die off. Come on! Who does she think she is talking to? Does she think average Americans earn anywhere near what she does? She is completely out of touch. I'll tell you what Sally, I've been working for 35 years and now that I'm disabled I have no health care. Waiting 20 years for a procedure is still better than NO procedure.
1971SuperLead 1 year ago
This just makes me laugh. Of course the rich American can't understand why universal health care is the best thing for the people. And believe me, lady - when we want good health care, we stay in Canada. We may not be THE best health care in the world, but it sure beats what you have down there. I'd rather wait a little for superior treatment that I don't have to pay ridiculous amounts of money for.
euphfellowship 1 year ago
@euphfellowship Hispanics are the poorest segment of American society but have the longest life expectancy and lowest infant mortality.
Knoss 1 year ago
How good would you guys say Canada's Healthcare on a scale from 1 to 10?
+
She should take a look at some Californian emergency rooms. (UC Davis Medical Center) I went overnight, and what did I see? All these people in the hallways sleeping overnight on stretchers. The exact thing she's complaining about in Canada.
RastafariPoet 1 year ago
@RastafariPoet Don't forgett the governemnt plays a big role in US healtcare with over 50% of the money coming from government. California also has CON laws which prevent the construction of new hospitals. Also many people are in the ER because it is free.
Knoss 1 year ago
This woman is a LIAR!
Yes, we have had some longer waits in Canada, but they are getting smaller and the problem is being addressed.
She fails to mention a few things. 1)Dr.Day owns the largest for profit clinic in Canada. He has a vested interest in privatization. 2)many Cdns residing near U.S. border, closer to a major U.S. hospital, will get emergency care there, and it's not out of pocket. There are many Cdn elderly who vacation in Florida in Winter mnhts and get care there.
stama9 1 year ago
@stama9
No, SHE IS NOT LYING. It's the truth, even when you don't like to hear it. I do not see the problem is being addressed. I live in London ON and I can tell you dozens of stories about myself, my family members, friends and relatives that we have had terrible experiencies with the E.R.'s, doctors and nurses. Only if you are lucky you get good and prompt treatment otherwise the rule is negligence and lack of empathy.
Talitwo 1 year ago
@Talitwo Yes, she IS lying. I live in Edmonton AB. I can tell you that when my family members and I have had a TRUE emergency, we have gotten timely and prompt care. I have had long emergency wait times when it HASN'T been a true emergency but had no choice but to go after medical centre hours. The fact is that if you're in Canada and do have a medical emergency, you will get care. And for reg care, cancer care, and care for ongoing care for my elderly father, it is good and NO ONE goes broke
stama9 1 year ago
@stama9 Actully lots of services are not covered by medicare, there are waitinglists, and Canada has a higher foreclosure rate than the USA.
Knoss 1 year ago
@Knoss Canada has a higher foreclosure rate than the U.S? Are you insane? U'd better check ur numbers again. And I was talking about no one going broke in Canada from medical bankruptcy and that's a fact. Yes some services aren't covered like dental and drugs (which are MUCH cheaper in Canada btw) but we are still light years ahead of the U.S.
People like you have probably never had to pay for an expensive operation. U don't know how lucky u really are to have that system ur bashing.
stama9 1 year ago
@stama9 Canada is behind the US in drug development. The American pharmecutical industry is a leader in producing new drugs. Because of regulation Canada has far less development and new drugs often don't come onto the market after they have been in the us for several years.
Knoss 1 year ago
@Knoss Yeah, they're called safety regulations and they're put there for a reason. The drugs are also much cheaper in Canada than the U.S. which is why recently there was talk of re-importing drugs into the U.S. from Canada, which means you can get just about anything in the Cdn market that you could on the U.S. market.
Also, half of the worlds biggest pharma companies are in the E.U. Y'know, the world's largest market that also provides Med.care and price controls for its people.
stama9 1 year ago
@Knoss The American Govt (through taxpayer support) funds the NIH (Natl. Institute of Health) actually starts the research and development of drugs for diseases the pharmaceutical industry won't because there's no profit potential. Big Pharmaceuticals also take the research from the NIH and use it to make they argument that they need high prices do to their incredible research costs. Don't be fooled that all the research and development is private sector. It not.
RuleofFive 8 months ago
@Knoss The American Govt (through taxpayer support) funds the NIH (Natl. Institute of Health) actually starts the research and development of drugs for diseases the pharmaceutical industry won't because there's no profit potential. Big Pharmaceuticals also take the research from the NIH and use it to make they argument that they need high prices do to their incredible research costs. Don't be fooled that all the research and development is private sector. It not.
RuleofFive 8 months ago
I agree with her on that the waiting list in Canada is pretty long, but only for people with non-life threatening conditions. People like the woman's mother would no doubt get immediate medical treatment.
frankystein12 1 year ago
she is a fake has no real credentials is not an expert her numbers are all wrong.. she works for a republican think tank...
phoboskitty 2 years ago
People in the US want what Congress has for everyone, that's ll
marniespeaks 2 years ago
Alberta has a Two Tiered health care system, like this woman is proposing, but it has done very little to reduce wait times or free up beds. Yes it has reduced wait times for the most affluent, but this has a side effect of reducing philantropic donations to public hospital facilities. In other words, If the rich arent using public hospitals, why would they fund them? This system is not working in the "weathiest" province, how is it going to work as a National policy?
PsilocybinNinja 2 years ago
How is a multi-tiered system better?
In every statist medical monopoly, there will exist a plethora of tiers and sub-tiers.
There is the lucky majority, who have no serious defect, and who do not have to deal with the bureaucracy to any large extent. Then there are others, who aren't as fortunate, and whose opinions will likely be radically different.
There are the old, who are perceived as a parasitical burden by the doctor-bureaucrats and their paymasters, and treated accordingly.
-
PanzerDivisionBOM 2 years ago
There are the productive young, who tend to get expedient care, but who will also have to pay heavily inflated prices, to fund both the old and the bloated medical bureaucracy.
And then there are the Nomenklatura - employees in the medical field, the political class and public figures whose opinion matters to the media, who either by special grant or by insider knowledge can navigate the bowels of the bureaucracy, and get the treatment they need in an expedient fashion.
PanzerDivisionBOM 2 years ago
I understand. My point was that a multi tiered system DOESNT work
PsilocybinNinja 2 years ago
I live in Canada! woot hockey and donuts
markadams2000 2 years ago
So i quit work and applied for the Medical Assistance Program (MAP) provided by my county. They admitted me and had the surgery in 1 week, no questions asked, and for only $15.
I am now able to get a better job and contribute to society more so than before... as a nurse!
reivilo 2 years ago
I don't understand what all the fear is about!?!?
- PUBLIC HEALTH ALREADY EXISTS IN THE US!!!
I had severe hernia that i could not get repaired due to the extreme cost of insurance (over 1/3 of my salary) only to find it was classified as a preexisting condition, thus not covered.... It took 3 painful years to save enough money to have the surgery.
reivilo 2 years ago
Go to any emergency room in the states and it's filled to the brim with children that have the sniffles. Parents are such damn hypochondriacs...what does this have to do with the discussion? I'm not quite sure...
ProtagonistNonTheist 2 years ago
I think Canada and America should merge.
ProtagonistNonTheist 2 years ago
what it proves is that countries should have tiered system- private AND public payment options for various services to suit different cases to their needs best.
in canada, i go to a family doctor and can get an appointment within the week. the statement that all people are waiting 17 weeks is absurd and wrong. it only proves more doctors are needed to help it work for an extended list of services, not that people dont want a system to pay for basic productivity-enabling care through taxation
tyrannicoystercult 2 years ago
Why is it that Canada has a better health record than the US in every category that one cares to compare?
This woman's speech was designed to raise emotions without providing any useful comparative information at all.
kshackleton 2 years ago
Yeah,the US is a great place to be ill...if one has fantastic insurance.If not,count on not being able to pay the rent or mortage for a minor emergency room visit(I know.I had 10 stitches last year that cost $2,000 and that was after insurance)or with something major,you may have to sell your house or remain in debt for life,and that's the lucky ones.The uninsured often do receive substandard care and are turned away for nonlife threatening emergencies.Canada's not perfect,but give me it anyday.
bkelsey4 2 years ago
So this hotshot says we should adopt America's healthcare "system" and have our people succumb to Third World illnesses just so a few rich fucks can pay for superior healthcare for their loved ones. We can get more doctors (hell there are plenty of immigrant doctors whose skills we haven't even begun to use), we can reform our hospitals, and build a better public healthcare system that serves people better and easier. Privatization would mean that everyone loses but the wealthy.
blackiron60 2 years ago
ya, our health care system sucks, but there is no way in hell that canadians would agree to an american styled "health care" system
lianghaochen 2 years ago
Yea, the waiting lists aren't so long outside of Canada because people with no insurance or money don't get on them and those that have funds get seen right away since everyone else is SOOL
RevChris1984 2 years ago
Pathetic video, focus is on time waiting, because that is the ONLY area where American health care competes. Her anecdotal story about how her mother was lower priority than other people is supposed to make us go "oh my!" but in America, that same thing happens, except instead of age, we use money to decide priority of care. Obviously 2-tier system should be available, seems like Canada dropped the ball on that one, which is why some come here. But nonetheless, Sally's talk is very dishonest.
angelwhite 2 years ago
Then why do Canadians overwhelmingly prefer their system?
humanist7117 2 years ago
Government intervention in health care in unconstitutional. Keep it in Canada and Europe. If they MUST get involved they can get rid of the bureaucracy.
yoshi3329 2 years ago
Uninteresting anecdote.
denbowan 2 years ago
No one in my family has ever had to wait for to see a doctor or have a surgical procedure in Canada. Not sure where she is getting her stats. The doctor she referred to, Dr Brian Day, operated on a friend's knee several years ago. Day went into the more lucrative business of selling MRI and CT scans through his private (for profit) clinics. While he's a good doctor, he's an even better businessman.
hplaserjet2001 2 years ago
of course, all of them use the worst examples, and dont bother with looking at other wealthy countries where it works better .
Finiras 2 years ago
Riiiiiiight. Public healthcare is an abomination, and we should all go back to where the richest get the best treatment, just because they are rich, and the poor get none at all.
GET REAL, PEOPLE.
1RadicalOne 2 years ago
In a public system resources are wasted and costs rise due to the inherent bureaucracy of government. To remain efficient and accessible, it needs good stewardship. We have not had that for a while, so the problems are compounding.
In a private system, you will always pay cost+ profit. Just as you do when you buy a shoe or a house. Similarly, you'll get what you can afford. And therein lies the problem. Private insurance? Do you think another layer of profit reduces what you pay?
marconospam 2 years ago
Interesting anecdotal evidence. I especially like how she takes one doctors incompetence and implicates the whole system for it. Of course shes as unbiased as they get.
verstwo2 2 years ago
btw americans that keep on claiming that US system is so awesome etc.. You portray the rest of the industrialized world as if it were some kind of third world country. It aint, and most studies show better overall care in western Europe than US. Now in some cases, the best care you can get is in the US, but it is not true in all cases, dont fool yourselves.... anyways.. america is interesting so we´ll keep watching you but your shit smells too.. and it smells real bad
Thealazor 2 years ago
I love how she says canadians should get the private health care option that that politician she mentioned had.
But even if they had that option in canada they would still have to pay for it like she did, wouldnt they?
And one thing that I think people forget.. No system is perfect. Many of the national health care systems do have waiting lines that can be long, but no system is perfect. Not being able to get a perfect system is not an excuse for keeping a shitty one, IMO
Thealazor 2 years ago
"In Canada today, 750,000 canadians are on a waiting list for a procedure"
Well that's not to bad, in the US about 50,000,000 people are not even on a waiting list, they won't even get care!
Why don't you come to Canada, or Europe, and take a look for yourself how well our health care systems work.
Q99X 2 years ago
LOL love it!
cant1be1original 2 years ago
Q99X, False, anyone who wants to can walk into a U.S. hospital and get treated immediately. I'll stay here thank you. It's far from perfect, but if you have a life threatening emergency or cancer there's no better place in the world to be. The price could be improved, but not by government intervention. Only by removing government regulations could we increase competition to serve patients thus lowering cost. Basic Austrian economics. Politicians cannot be trusted.
truthadvocate 2 years ago
correction, you can walk in and get treated- if you want to not eat for the next year and half while paying off the bill.
cominatrix 2 years ago
Please stop exaggerating. Nobody is forced to starve because they can't pay a medical bill.
1. Everyone is free to make money & purchase a low cost insurance with a high deductible. It would be much lower in cost without government regulation.
2. Hospitals & clinics provide no interest financing plans with low affordable payments. These bills would be even lower without government regulation.
3. We already have programs & charities for people born with disease & no insurance.
truthadvocate 2 years ago
so why do families have to have "events" to pay for healthcare of children
goldgrif 2 years ago
Those are charity events. Nothing wrong with charity.
If parents purchased health insurance, the vast majority of child care would be covered.
In extreme cases, children need extreme levels of care. Insurance can help enormously, but insurance (public or private) is not a bottomless pit filled with money. What insurance covers depends on the contract. The problem today, is that patients are not free to shop around for the best contract thanks to the government.
truthadvocate 2 years ago
No one is forced to starve, but if you are responsible and have savings, you get no help and have to pay ridiculous prices. Because I am responsible and had savings, I had to pay over $10,000 because I went to the ER with an upset stomach ache late at night.
klalkity 2 years ago
Were you responsible enough to purchase a health insurance policy? If you were it wouldn't cost you 10,000.
I had an emergency surgery to cut out a rapidly spreading infection. Because I had a policy with a high deductible, I've been paying off the bill for a couple years. But I'm very happy with this outcome, because I'm alive & healthy. More than I can say for people that have to wait for surgeries in countries that have government run healthcare.
truthadvocate 2 years ago
Here we go again. The point is that many people can't afford to buy a health insurance policy on their own and they can't get insurance from their job, or they don't have a job, or the insurance from their job costs a lot and basically gives them nothing anyways. I've been through all of that and if you think this is untrue then you are very fortunate. Not everyone can afford to spend two month's pay to buy a year's worth of insurance that might not pay out even in the case that you get sick.
klalkity 2 years ago
Not only that, my point was that the "normal price" for sitting in a bed and getting some tests done late at night is $10,000.00. Who the fuck can afford that? Why is the price so high? It's ridiculous.
klalkity 2 years ago
No offense, but I'm a skeptic. I've been to the emergency room & my bill has never been anywhere near 10,000. Even if you're not exaggerating, that bill is not going down with national healthcare. It's just being forced on other people. That is robbery.
Plus the easiest way to reduce cost without screwing up the industry & forcing trillions of debt on our children is to simply allow freedom. Freedom to compete to serve patients. Why is that so hard?
truthadvocate 2 years ago
No, the point of healthcare reform is to drive down costs that have been artificially inflated by the presence of insurance, and reduce the exorbitant profits of insurance company monopolies. the money doesn't comes out of the pockets of people who have been robbing us for decades upon decades.
and i disagree that it would be wrong to collectively pay the bills of the less fortunate. you want us to believe it's right to bankrupt people just so we can have lower taxes? those aren't my morals.
klalkity 2 years ago
Your plan will bankrupt this entire country. That is far more malicious than allowing people to learn from their mistakes & allowing charities to help the less fortunate.
The politicians & their supporters are ignoring simple laws of economics. When they say healthcare reform will drive down cost, they are lying. When they say a public option will increase competition. they are lying. Insurance companies are not monopolies. & even if they were, replacing them with a government monopoly is worse
truthadvocate 2 years ago
What other country with universal healthcare (or something cheaper and less, like the U.S.'s new plan) has bankrupted their country? What makes you think ours will? Did Medicare bankrupt our country too? Did social security? You want to get rid of all of those and let people die if they aren't rich, just admit it.
klalkity 2 years ago
If a government consistently spends more than it takes in, it ultimately leads to collapse. It doesn't matter whether it spends on national healthcare or wars. Once its debt to income ratio becomes too high, other countries stop lending, it desperately prints money, currency becomes worthless, people starve to death. Examples: Hungary 1946, Zimbabwe today, Yugoslavia 1994, Germany 1923, Greece 1944, Rome & many more. We already have somewhere around 100 trillion dollars in unfunded liabilities.
truthadvocate 2 years ago
Okay so instead of backing up your claim that health care bankrupts countries, you list off some countries that bankrupted before. Nice work.
klalkity 2 years ago
This is like me telling you that a person with a low paying job will go bankrupt if they shop themselves into $100,000 of credit card debt. And you telling me, if I cannot name someone who went bankrupt buying toys, then as long as that person spends the 100 grand on toys he won't go bankrupt. You're sweating the details & missing the elephant in the room. It does not matter what you spend it on. All that matters is the ratio of debt to income. If you cannot understand this, you are not rational
truthadvocate 2 years ago
Again, you claim health care is like a person getting $100,000 of credit card debt. This is more begging of the question. Three strikes, you're out.
klalkity 2 years ago
Nice strawman. Although I could list similarities in behavior between a maxed out credit card customer & our out of control government with evidence, that wasn't the point. The similarity I pointed out was in the application of your faulty logic.
What's with the 3 strikes I'm out? Do you get satisfaction by pretending you won an argument, like the creationists you despise? You're right. I'm out... out of patience for the close-minded, economically illiterate, & rationally inconsistent.
truthadvocate 2 years ago
How the fuck is that a straw-man? I restated exactly what metaphor you were claiming. I clearly showed the fallacy you were committing, and then you come back at me and accuse me of bad logic and straw-manning you. If I straw-manned your argument then tell me the stronger form of it. There isn't one. If you are so literate then you need to work on your argumentation skills because you've done nothing but beg the question three times, so unless you grow a new brain I do hope you are done.
klalkity 2 years ago
Comment removed
truthadvocate 2 years ago
Look, there's so much wrong with every argument you've put here I'm pretty much done unless someone besides you needs me to go on. PM me or leave a comment, anyone but this guy, if you don't see what's wrong with his argument(s). AFAICT it's obvious and he's just going to keep making blunders ad infinitum until I give up so he can "win." Not really interested in seeing who can answer back the most. He's still wrong, and how many times do I have to show it and then see it deflected w/ lies?
klalkity 2 years ago
When you accuse someone of begging the question or lying, use a quote to back it up. Don't be offended if I challenge your interpretation when you change my words. My original argument was not that "health care is like a person getting $100,000 of credit card debt." First of all, you took 7 words out of context, leaving the meat of the metaphor behind. Plus you inserted the words "health care." My metaphor did not represent healthcare. It represented our debate & more specifically your argument.
truthadvocate 2 years ago
"Your plan will bankrupt this entire country. "
Is it not already? To be honest you are probably right. Americans are probably not capable of a public option. Maybe in 20 years, but not right now. I do not know why America is so far behind the rest of us, or how you can alter it but after reading and watching you all discuss it I am beginning to think you are right. Americans are just not ready.
I think it is going to require a cultural and educational revolution beforehand.
morganbath 2 years ago
Is this Glenn Beck in a dress?
Little known fact to some liberals is that america has no waiting lists in any clinics, american doctors never misdiagnose and even the poorest people can afford quality treatment.
fourthirteen 2 years ago
worst video off foraTv in a while
joeindo69 2 years ago 2
Can't handle multiple perspectives? What would you prefer? Videos that only follow the government agenda like brainless sheep?
truthadvocate 2 years ago
facepalm
joeindo69 2 years ago
The market only works where there is a profit to be had. It is not magic.
The trouble is there is no profit in insuring people who can't afford it and/or have ongoing conditions.
In answer to this point other free market enthusiasts have told me the uninsured and destitute should rely on charity. I must pass the hat round at my office to see how this works.
"My brother is schizophrenic & needs treatment for the rest of his life. I know you gave last week, but how about another $10?"
cristop5 2 years ago
i still do not understand how it is ethical to make obscene profits off of other people's health or lack there of. do you really think that the people working for insurance companies are living modestly in suburbia? No! theyre living rich and fat off of other people's health or potential illness. its twisted! consumerism can be fine in places, i just dont think that heath, people's livelyhood, is one of those places
cominatrix 2 years ago 2
Government involvement in medicine (Medicare) has driven prices so high that insurance is the only way to afford it and now the price of insurance is so high it is nearly unafforable. Government involvement is the problem. Government destroys the free market mechanisum.
InTheSticks1881 2 years ago
Yeah, this is all fine and good. But the US healthcare is certainly worse. People who have pre-existing conditions are screwed if they get dropped/go uninsured. Their lives get ruined by bankruptcy, on top of whatever condition they have.
I'm not sure the relevance of this woman's point, suffice to say it is a bit of a strwaman, and a red herring, and does nothing constructive to address the basic healthcare inequalities in the USA.
abyssquick 2 years ago
I'm canadian and here it's by priority,,, Something that can wait will be delayed but something urgent, like my operation to the appendicitis was treated immediately... For the same operation In the U.S I would have been charged a 20 000$ bill and here it cost me a huge.... 0.00$ LOLL Yes our system is not perfect and you can find stupid cases but, overall, it's pretty adequate...
Svendar 2 years ago
I gnereally agree with you our care is adequate, but not excellent.
LeGioNoFZioN 2 years ago
exactly! the people on that waiting list she was talking about almost undoubtidly had minor complaints that could certainly wait. They're not going to let someone with 3rd degree burns wait 3 weeks for treatment.
and there are doctors world wide that dont do their jobs properly so that one that didnt diagnose her mother is nothing exceptional, just a bad day. maybe hypochondria would decrease if you couldnt go to the doc for every little sneeze
cominatrix 2 years ago 5
to be honest people do wait months to a year sometimes more for a specialist visit. that could be non life threatening but shitty like if you have your colon pierced, and need an operation to fix it, you are stuck wearing diapers for a year. it sucks but its not life threatening. but if you need a specialist for diagnosis, it can be life threatening starting any medically necessary care months to a year later will certainly impact some lives.
LeGioNoFZioN 2 years ago
@cominatrix i dont know about you but im not waiting a month to get my flu dealt with or my foot injury. i live in america and if i get the flu or sick or hurt i can be in my private doctors office the next morning at the latest. the wait then takes 10 minutes. and treatment about as long too. and it only costs minimal compared to the taxes that will happen in a socialized system.
gibblets17 11 months ago
She is right about elderly people being ignored by the medical professionals. They figure that you have lived your life and it would cost too much to treat you. Of course I am generalizing but this is true none the less.
Coupal1 2 years ago 2
How much was this woman paid by US healthcare? They can afford to pay people to speak up for them, but they can't afford to cover the people that need care?
finallyfreethinking 2 years ago 5
PRI is a conservative think tank designed to push thier agenda nothing more nothing less.They often use reports that are considered junk or have been discredited to fit their message, People kill me with this they gotta wait in canada for heathcare shit, well at least they are waiting for healthcare as opposed to waiting to die which is what she is proposing, she should take those corporate dollars she gets to help find a solution to this mess instead of just adding to it.
xalston 2 years ago 4
If this story doesn't do the job she will be busy dreaming up another one with her think tank colleagues. There will be meetings and brainstorming sessions followed by presentations and audience response analyses. All paid for of course by the health insurance companies - a beautiful example of how the free market can deliver any commodity if the price is right. The product in this case being of course propaganda.
cristop5 2 years ago
she isn't lying. she clearly does have an agenda, but what she has said about our Canuck health care is in no way inaccurate. I would be a crusader like her if my mom died from our sometimes substadard care here. you should be less judgemental about her. she is calling truth to power and the powers that be in your country and mine don't like it.
LeGioNoFZioN 2 years ago
LeGioNoFZioN: No she is not lying. It's called spin. An honest person without an agenda would compare the good and bad aspects of several systems. Do you think she would ever draw your attention to the failings of health care in the US where laisee faire economics rules? Either the US system is just fine and free from incompetent doctors (LOL) or she is not paid to do that!
If her mum were in America she may have been treated earlier - if she was insured!
Crusade? No, she's just doing her job..
cristop5 2 years ago 2
she is doing her job, like Al Gore does his, and like the oil industry does theirs. she is promoting an agenda. Her personal experiences make her an effective advocate given her loss. She is like an abortion survivor advocating pro life policies, or an African advocating for DDT to stop malaria. She is not debating her POV, she is arguing for it.
LeGioNoFZioN 2 years ago
people wait to die here too. not as many people to be sure, but then again we are about 10% of your population so that much is expected. I don't think Canuck health care is shit, but it is deficient and needs to be fixed so these cases do not occur so frequently.
LeGioNoFZioN 2 years ago
If they don't want to insure you, DIE!
LokiMythos 2 years ago
my question too burntonion
etzel33 2 years ago
How long is that waiting list for people who don't have health insurance?
burntonion05 2 years ago
Indeed. Their not on a waiting list at all, they are left to die. If they try to force the issue by going to the hospital, the hospital will only stabilize them, not fix what is wrong, and as soon as they are stabilized, role them out to the curb in a wheel chair, then take back the wheel chair. I'm not joking. Happened to a friend of mine right here in the good old USA. Friend was left on the curb to die. Pay whatever the insurance company's demand, or die!
LokiMythos 2 years ago
No thank you Canada. Our healthcare would be great if the government would get out.
yoshi3329 2 years ago
speak for yourself, I'd take canadian health care in a second over this joke that is healthcare in USA.
LokiMythos 2 years ago 2
I speak as an black American, I see blacks who are not able to pay for health care b/c of bureaucracy. i understand that liberals mean well it's just that the conclusion hurts black Americans.
yoshi3329 2 years ago
I asked everyone around me this simple question: Would you trade our health care system with one like the U.S.
Not 1 said yes, everyone said no.
I dont know anybody who would say yes to this question, why? Maybe because, we, canadian like our system, it's not perfect but EVERYONE IS COVERED, EVERYONE.
erad24 2 years ago 2
erad24. It's exactly the same in Australia. The American health care system is always held up as an example of how not to do it.
cristop5 2 years ago
Yeah, that has been my experience too. A handful of my family members are Canadian, and not a single one of them nor their neighbors or friends that I have met would trade for the U.S. system. Also, I am not really sure why this Fora video is relevant, because nobody in the U.S. (outside of Bernie Sanders) is advocating Canadian-style health care. What is being put forward would bring the U.S. slightly toward the Dutch or Swiss model, both of which are market-based models.
Robfenix 2 years ago
this is a public message
*paid for by health insurance lobbyists
jellygraph 2 years ago
Actually the Pacific Research Institute is a very fair and objective organization. Even though it costs them sponsorship from industry groups, they go out of their way to champion the environment and workers' rights when necessary. So you can totally trust them to give you the full picture, fair and balanced.
Look, I'M JOKING okay?
cristop5 2 years ago
I live in Canada and never waited for any of the procedures or tests that I had. I don't know any one who has or for that matter anyone that has gone to the U.S. for a procedure.
That said , I think Americans should copy health care ideals from European countries such as France or Germany. In every study I am aware of they rate higher than Canada.
cavejourney 2 years ago 2
Nothing but lies, distortions, and misinformation. What a surprise, coming from the PRI, a right-wing think tank.
If you're diagnosed with a low thyroid level, it could take you a few months to see a specialist. If your condition is dire, if you need triple, quadruple bypass, a prostate cored out, kidney or gallbalder surgery, or you're exploding from some autoimmune or inflammatory disease, you get in IMMEDIATELY. ETERNAL SHAME on this woman and PRI for promoting for-profit healthcare!
robgoren 2 years ago 3
Gotta love the low ratings on this video. So many socialists don't like hearing that their Utopian government answer to everything isn't realistic.
Mastikator 2 years ago
For some reason I can't post a link to the site of the survey.... Colon Cancer Survival Rates
An Overview of Colon Cancer Survival Rates
by Donna Myers
seach that and you'll find it This is a comparison of the usa and europe.... but similar searches will tell you that USA has the highest survival rate in the world for colon cancer, besides japan....
Theprinceofponeage 2 years ago
"According to the same study, colon cancer survival rates also vary by country. While the overall five-year survival for colon cancer in America is 62%, it's 43% in Europe. Quality of care may be one reason, but another could be colon cancer screening programs. In general, the earlier colon cancer is detected, the easier it is to treat."
Theprinceofponeage 2 years ago
In the case of Ms. Pipes" elderly mother, I think that the real problem was a family doctor who refused to take his patient seriously- a problem which can and does occur in every healthcare system. Refusal to give access to a colonoscopy would have immediately prompted me to sek the advice of another doctor, an option which is always available to Canadians. Wonder why concerned daughter Ms. Pipes did not encourage her mother to go that route at the time her mother first noticed the symptoms?
gilraen789 2 years ago 2
i am a US citizen living in saskatchewan, canada. i phoned a medical centre yesterday and asked them when i could be seen for the first time (as a new patient) and they gave me an appointment for monday. 3 business days later! i used to live in the states before and it always took several weeks for my PHP to see me. here in canada i dont have to worry about the greedy insurance companies either. AS SOMEONE WHO KNOWS BOTH SYSTEMS, I WOULD NEVER TRADE what i have now with what i used to have!
IrreverentTetrapod 2 years ago 4
That must have been a really shitty PHP... But you get what you pay for, and thats the way it should be. Still, your not going to get as good of care in Canada as you will in the United States. The United States has one of the highest survival rates for almost all illnesses. Yet if you don't have health care at all, socialized health care would be a better option. American health care costs more and its done on an individual basis.... but its better care.
Theprinceofponeage 2 years ago
Comment removed
GeeKayKayGee 2 years ago
'Colon Cancer Kills more in Canada'?
Bullshit? BULLSHIT!
Numbers and Sources dude, Numbers and Sources. I say you pulled that claim out of your behind (that'd be colon related eh) and have no data to back it up. The US system is expensive and provides a poor level of care because too many leeches are trying to enrich themselves on the suffering of others.
GeeKayKayGee 2 years ago
There's really no reason to be so shrill......
Theprinceofponeage 2 years ago
There's really no reason to be so cute.......
Now how about an answer to the question?
Please provide numbers and sources to back up your claim. I'll be waiting and waiting and waiting and waiting I'm sure.
GeeKayKayGee 2 years ago
I thought I already did.... Canadas system of national health insurance is often cited as a model for the United States. But an analysis of 2001 to 2003 data by June ONeill, former director of the Congressional Budget Office, and economist David ONeill, found that overall cancer survival rates are higher in the United States than in Canada:
Theprinceofponeage 2 years ago
For women, the average survival rate for all cancers is 61 percent in the United States, compared to 58 percent in Canada. For men, the average survival rate for all cancers is 57 percent in the United States, compared to 53 percent in Canada.
Most Cancer Survival Rates in USA Better Than Europe and Canada
Tuesday, July 21, 2009, 12:55 PM
Wesley J. Smith
I would give you the IP address, but for some reason I cant.
Theprinceofponeage 2 years ago
i saw a critique of that study. The numbers are actually practically the same, but in the united states they count a few easily survivable diseases as cancers(they dont in europe) which increases the survival rate
mrfigo524 2 years ago
And yet, according to WHO the USA sits at #37 overall and behind canada at #30 for health system efficacy (2000).
A 2002-2003 study has canada at #4 (77/100k) for medically preventable deaths and the US at #14 (110/100K). The authors also note that "it is difficult to disregard the observation that the slow decline in U.S. amenable mortality has coincided with an increase in the uninsured population
My numbers say your numbers bite, and overall canada's health care system works, & USA doesn't
GeeKayKayGee 2 years ago
And Im flattered you think Im cute....
Theprinceofponeage 2 years ago
To receive my honest assessment as Cute you're gonna need more than a snippy comment. Being witty, male, attractive and gay would go a ways to earning my Cute evaluation.
GeeKayKayGee 2 years ago
Im also glad to see you seem to be a fellow atheist, and advocate of reason. For that I salute you....
Theprinceofponeage 2 years ago
Ill argue with you, if I could be so presumptuous as to call myself cool...
Theprinceofponeage 2 years ago
as a canadian, i have been consistently impressed with our system. Even procedures considered cosmetic under US plans are covered free of charge and the wait is rarely longer than a week or two.
adamproskiw 2 years ago 4
It isn't really free, it's indirectly payed for.
Theprinceofponeage 2 years ago
dont like the facts? rate 1 star.
sexdrugsRnR 2 years ago
Don't you mean to say, if the facts arent true, rate one star....
Liking something is of no consequence.....
There are a lot of true things that I really don't like....
Theprinceofponeage 2 years ago 3
sorry, i have to leave, i have math homework ( which is far more complicated than social issues i think) due tomorrow, but happy to talk with you. i think your argument is decent and constructive, i think any of the opposition like your opinions is good for the entire debate and reform.
good luck and good night.
chenchiheshang 2 years ago
I agree, math is harder.... And good to talk to you too, I have sent you a friend request, maybe we can talk at a later date. Your argument is also well structured, even if I disagree. I am willing to bet there are many other issues we would agree on though. Good night to you too.
Theprinceofponeage 2 years ago
that is complete bullshit. never in my entire life have i heard of any story even remotely similar to hers regarding anyone i know. what a giant liar. the Canadian healthcare system isn't perfect, but it works.
PlateauEast 2 years ago
Not to say I wouldn't still feel bad if someone got sick, I would. I just won't pay for their healthcare.....
Theprinceofponeage 2 years ago
They are both flawwed, but in different ways. America has better care, but more expensive care. And its payed more directly, by the customer. Canadian care isn't as good but its cheaper, and payed indirectly by everyone involved....
Theprinceofponeage 2 years ago
Amazing how something against dogma gets down-rated automatically.
Watch this comment get down-rated, too.
JeffreyRodriguez 2 years ago 2
I notice that she never compared US health stats with Canadian health stats.
The reason for that is that she couldn't do that and still argue that the US system is better. She could only trot out a few facts along with some anecdotal stories.
My mother-in-law, aged 77, went from initial mammogram to surgery in a few weeks. Radiation followed, and now she is healthy a few months on.
kshackleton 2 years ago 2
This has been flagged as spam show
911 There is new petition out by bold progressives that needs signatures. It has 120,000 and they want 150,000. I have the link to it in the comment section of my profile. Sign it and then pass it on!
Good News! AARP & the American Medical Assn have just announced that they're supporting the House health reform bill.
Smartassawhip 2 years ago
For a person who can't afford health insurance, being on a waiting is better than the nothing which they get in the US.
lynchmobb2000 2 years ago 4
Clearly the reason this CEO of a conservative "think tank" is raising these issues is because she believes that we need to go even farther than Canada has in quality of health care, since the US is doing far worse than Canada in terms of wait times, costs, access to care, and all these things CEO lady mentions.
funkalunatic 2 years ago 2
This woman has shit spewing from her mouth.
Ikemxx 2 years ago 2
Cherry pick and name drop
BAD FORM
isegoria1 2 years ago 2
She's good at lying with numbers.
NermalsChannel 2 years ago 2
haha she says Belinda went to the U.S. because she only because she could afford it. Then she goes on to say how bad the Canadian system is because it doesn't allow rich people to buy their way through immediately.
My response: If you have money then feel free to go elsewhere for private care, but Canada's public system can only function and service people for free because it is run by the gov. Canada's system works well for the average person, the U.S. system works well for the rich.
joebobfrank666 2 years ago
YOU LIE! (I've been waiting for a chance to do that)
gotilk 2 years ago
Satistic Canada have much different numbers that she has, she is cherrypicking it up
LaMouleQuiCoule 2 years ago 8
Even if what she said was true,it doesn't mean that socialized medicine doesn't work, pretty much all the top 10 health care systems in the world are completely or mostly socialized.
AimiriZ 2 years ago 2
Her anecdotal story about her mom was such a blatant out and out lie that it was sickening to listen to.
"Too old to get a colonoscopy"? Uhm no, try another lie. Seriously I was following the story up until the blatant lie. They don't exclude people because they are "too old", if you believe that, then you probably believe Obama really wants "death panels" for Americans.
Seriously the lies told about healthcare are hilarious.
Why not just speak the truth? The wait times in Canada are a prob
zutroy1 2 years ago 2
what a pin head, I live in Canada and I wouldn't trade our system for the American one in a million years
LaMouleQuiCoule 2 years ago 5
Have any of you that want "free" healthcare (like other countries supposedly have) actually looked at the TAX RATES in those other countries??? So its longer wait times AND HIGHER TAXES to pay for a system that only works in less populated, smaller countries.
crozzy27 2 years ago
You do realize we already spend more than other countries on health care and don't really get better results for the higher spending right?
Health care costs are growing far faster than the rate of income as well, if what we're doing works you'd expect that such costs would drop or would grow in concert with income and at least get equal or better results.
garith21 2 years ago
Funny you say that - my 15 year old daughter had chest pains & that morning we had her in the doctors with x-rays and all sorts of tests with RESULTS THAT EVENING. No other country on earth can give you the best medical care in the world, that fast, with those sorts of results using high tech equipment. Have you ever been to a hospital in London? Are you even aware of the problems they have with cleanliness? I've been all over the world i know the reality...it isnt greener on the other side.
crozzy27 2 years ago
1) so suddenly London = the world?
2) congrats you haven't bumped into severe problems that result in the health insurance dropping your kid
3) Are you really asserting we've never had problems with cleanliness? I can guarantee if I want to find horror stories anywhere, here isn't special in that respect.
garith21 2 years ago
1. Nope but that was on example. I've lived in brazil for 6 months i could give you examples from there if you like? :)
2. I never said our system is perfect. But people WITH insurance, our system is definitely better. Without a doubt.
3. Your answer tells me you are unaware of the problems they have. Google it you will learn more. I work IN hosptials my friend and no we dont have nearly the same problems. Our hosptials are very clean and run very well. Again, not perfect..never said it perfect
crozzy27 2 years ago
1) Hey, you're making the sweeping statement that your experience in London is representative of the rest of the world.
2) so if an insurance company arbitrarily doesn't cover you or you don't happen to have a high income then what?
3) again you're basing this off of what? Article titles and personal experience? Again I can find horror stories for here just as easily if I google it, simply asserting "well here's different" isn't that convincing.
garith21 2 years ago 2
You OBVIOUSLY diddnt read a single word of my last reply. At least read what i write before you reply. Go back and read what i wrote, then try replying again.
crozzy27 2 years ago
obviously you didn't read my reply either, I can find horror stories anywhere, simply stating "it's worse elsewhere" isn't convincing. You also apparently didn't read the part where I don't consider London representative of the world.
you asserting "ours is better" really isn't quantitative, besides most of what I personally rag on is how our health insurance is dealt with and how health care providers must respond in kind.
garith21 2 years ago
I CLEARLY said London is ONE EXAMPLE!!! How hard is that to understand? I also said i livedin brazil fr 6 months i can tell you stories that you literally wouldnt believe. I have been to 27 countries and spent a month or so in the majority of those countries - how about you? If i had a week or two to sit here and give you every example then i would, but its common for a person to use an example as a representation of other examples.
Have you ever been outside the use?
crozzy27 2 years ago
1) You made the statement that just because you stayed at London the grass is not always greener on the other side, that makes a sweeping statement about others based on your experience in one place.
2) you do realize that most of our inefficiencies and extra costs stem from the health insurance industry and we spend mountains of extra in funds than other countries do per person per capita.
garith21 2 years ago
It's not like I'm arguing "new technology is bad" or "our doctors are more incompetent than other nations doctors" so I don't really get what your beef is with me.
garith21 2 years ago
No beef i just dont like when someone completely ignores what i write. I said clearly london was just one example i could think of that you could easily google and find information about.
My point is: folks WITH insurance in the USA have the best health care on earth. Period. Those without...well i agree we have a problem that needs solved.
Also, i AGREE insurance companies are a huge problem. We have many problems that need to be fixed but nationalized healthcare isnt the answer.
crozzy27 2 years ago
3) If you want to argue "if you're rich enough you'll be more likely to live" great, I agree there's plenty of research to back that up in any country, but I'm more concerned with the well being of society.
4) there's that sweeping statement again
5) so I've got to ask, what's your opinion on the public option and what do you think it is, if you do know what it is what version do you think would be the best version and why?
garith21 2 years ago
Did she say anything worthwhile? I could listen to her for 30 seconds before I had to stop listening.
rickamabob13 2 years ago
Notice she didn't say how old her mom was, if you knew she was 93, I think that would make a difference. Also, this single case reminds me of believers that talk about their faith in god because their loved one was cured of caner by a doctor... Once case doesn't tell you much.
ndyt 2 years ago
why even bother.......
"there's no point in democracy, when ignorance is celebrated..." NOFX
The US just celebrates stupidity
And I"ve lived here, in the US, all my life.....since 9/11....all been downhill......all this religious BULLSHIT!
exist209 2 years ago
i have never heard a canadian complain about their health care. but perhaps their wait times would be shorter if they didnt have so many illegal aliens coming across the boarder for free heath care. they should build a fence!
USFgasoline 2 years ago
Indeed
AxiomofDiscord 2 years ago
Why don't I believe this person?
voyeurdug 2 years ago 3
probably because she stating random statistics without citing her sources.
Another thing she seems to enjoy neglecting the time issue when most people can't even afford to look at the option. Some people get dreadful questions like "so which finger can you afford to keep".
The last point most people seem to neglect when making the kind of statements this woman is that Canada's not the only type of health care system
garith21 2 years ago 3
what dont you know that 106% of all statistics are made up and that at 5/3rds of those stats are never cited
USFgasoline 2 years ago 2
What tune will Sally pipe when she or her US family members are denied coverage by the medical insurance industry she touts for.
Perhaps Canada's supposed wait times would be shorter if their 'socialist trained' medical workers were not being lured away to US hospitals by the promise of big pay checks. Perhaps Canada's wait times will lessen as, sickened by the state of US 'health care', they return home to practice & receive care from a 'socialist' system that cares for all.
GeeKayKayGee 2 years ago 2