Leonardo Divinchi did not paint the shroud. He never painted with human blood and the image on the shroud is made of myrrh, a tree resin that comes from Israel. It has already been positively identified as myrrh from 1st Century. The image contains the carbohydrate formula C6 H10 O5. When it hardens it becomes glossy and hard. Light sensative and reflective. It also contains cellulose, when exposed to light forms an invisible image in reverse color. That is what is on the Shroud. A Photo.
Leonardo certainly created the shroud. He was a brave man to do this realizing that not 50 years before him,Bruno had been burned at the stake by the Catholic church for saying the earth revolves around the sun along with other planets. Today however we see the Vatican being helped by Israeli scientists who claim the shroud valid by some 'pollen from the Middle East' they had found in it............. LMAO
god created earth & all her splenders... then man...he gave us mother earth to use as our home...even introduced us to his son/family.. look what we did/do/doing to all that ...worst guests on the plant...... i feel ashamed....treat everything on earth as you would teach your own children how to behave when VISITING some one elses house.....knock & WAIT to be invitied in, for starters........simple manners....... one earth......
And what is outstanding is the total contrast between the brilliance of the Shroud and the mediocrity of the attempts to capture it in paint.
BTW, the dates of the medieval, (not Renaissance when Leonardo lived), paintings and drawings of the Shroud are proof in themselves that the artists knew the original Shroud centuries before Leonardo. Why otherwise draw Shrouds with images on them? That Shroud image is nowhere in the NT as inspiration! Unless a real original model existed to copy...
That fake Italian historian, so clearly member of an anticlerical sect, with his talk about all the images of shrouds in the Middle Ages. Sure there are such paintings that are done with real paint: but in those days one couldn't photograph the real Shroud. One had to paint it, and then take it away to some distant church where people cd see what the Shroud looked like. That's why there are some tiny spots of paint on the Shroud, flipped from copiers' brushes. But they don't form its image.
I don't believe Jesus was at all divine. But I think the shroud is wicked cool and have done since I was a kid. It's so macabre! It doesn't need to be holy to be awesome.
You see, im not a believer of Christianity, But i can say this, I think there is something, a greater power persay. But sciencetists seem to want to disprove christianity and that in itself is wrong, its is basicly a middle finger to millions who have faith. In fact i remeber watching a programme called the face of jesus and it basicly proved the only way the image of a man was on the shround was by light, like the light from a scanner. So thats leads me to think SOMETHING Godly happened
I think chiaroscuro technique could explain it too. A plate of glass with the figure drawn using chiaroscuro technique could play the role of the negative plate, like used by photographers during revealing process of any photo. This technique would be useful to explain why the image looks so flat and burned. This technique is not so unusual if we consider that people used to place curtains in front of stained glass windows and there was a lot of sunlight sensitive substances during Mid Age.
@sned10000 : The folds of the fabric also. In reality the image is flat , we can to measure it. the image made by mean of chiaroscuro technique contains 3D information too.
@Leivinn20 Yeh m8, just had a peek at your profile. looks good. ill check the videos out tonite. One of the first things to convince me the shroud is authentic is, if you look up all the artwork done on jesus's crucifixtion (Google images is pretty good) You'll see that everyone allways thought he was nailed through the palm. The shroud image has wounds going through the wrist. It only recently that we found out the romans must have driven the nails through the victims wrist.
@Leivinn20 So you would have thought that if this is a medievil hoax, why did they go against the traditional perception of the nails going through the palm. Also the blood on the shroud is real (type AB, common in the middle east, rare in medievil europe.) But yeh do watch the documentarys. If you enjoy mysteries, you've hit the jackpot with the shroud. We can't duplicate the image on the shroud (even with todays technology)
@sned10000 : All features mentioned by me can be measure directly on the shroud. Your evidence is circumstantial, it's not so strange if any catholic clergyman had known the exactly how Romans used crucify to prisoners...they had the libraries. One can't to contradict direct evidence.
@Leivinn20 Yeh i see what your saying. If you find the time serach on youtube "Shroud of Turin Expert Barrie Schwortz" theres a 12 part video on it, Barrie schwortz knows more about the shroud than anyone. And in google search"shroud turin facts" and the first one that comes up, should say somthing like "story guide" thats a quick, very readable summary. Let me know what you think after you've had a look at them. Whatever conclusion you come to, its fascinating stuff all the same.
@sned10000 : I am going to download the sequence titled " "Shroud of Turin Expert Barrie.." for watch them, and for training my ears on English. However, I don't believe that Vatican will remove it some day because could be very dangerous, taking in account there are a lot of people whom believe on supernatural origin of shroud, regardless any definitive proof. A lot of people might go into shock. That image doesn't match with any human body. There are experts and "experts"...you know.
It was the Churchs way of saying you dont believe in Christ,
well then will make you feel the pain he went threw & maybe you'll appreciate his death... So in the end they (the church) mocked Molay by doing the very thing he was accused of doing.
The Shroud was owned by Charney family who were dirrect desendents of Jean de Charney, who was roasted alive with Molay so it really makes you think that it wasnt Jesus!....but then again you never know ...it could be lol....but I highly doubt it!
@sned10000 oh dont get me wrong there has been many shrouds and ones thats pre-date Molay but it was'nt Jesus because of the fact that scientist carbon dated the shroud and it's only 700 years old!...so unless we're wrong about when the time of Jesus was alive or that it just was'nt Jesus lol... I think we just want it to be so bad that we tend to believe it without evidence
@Lauzon12 The carbon 14 tests were invalid. They found that in the samples they tested there were cotten fibers interwoven with the linen and traces of dye, suggesting an "invisible repair job (a medievil technique) Parts of the shroud were cut off over time and sold as relics (there was huge trade for relics in medievil times) to repair the edges of the shroud they used the invisible technique.
@Lauzon12 Theres also rear projection photos of the shroud showing the discolouring around the repaired parts (where the samples were taken). I know what you mean, im open minded and i didn't really think much of the shroud. it wasn't until i saw a documentary about it on the BBC a few years ago. If you just search on youtube for the latest documentary (theres a few of them) or even better, visit the website "shrouddotcom" theres plenty of info on there. Its a fascinating artifact.
@sned10000 yea absolutely i'll cheak it out, it's exciting to know there is still some things out in the world that are mysterious and unexplained even to this day with all our so called "technology"...this is deffinitely worth researching more into!
@Lauzon12 No probs m8. If you actually search "BBC shroud turin" thats a good 1. Yeh definitely, Im the same. I'v no doubt you'll find the shroud really interesting.
@sned10000 Yea you seem to be into all that kinda stuff the same as me...come cheak out my channel it's got some good videos in my playlists I think you'll like ...anyways come cheak it out if your up for it!
Haven't even watch the video yet but the Shroud of Turin is'nt Jesus it was Jacques Molay the last Grand Master of the Knights Templar he was crucified in the exact same way Jesus was because when the Inquisition accused the Knights of mocking Christ and with forced confessions from arrested Templars they admitted that they 'denied Christ' and 'spat on the cross and much more...So the church had him crusified but they still kept alive for the big bon fire on Friday 13 October 1307! Research ppl!
This documentary video is the most scientific analysis about Turin Shroud than I have seen until now . Congratulations. It´s quite disgraceful that scientists have to prove that the Shroud is false, if we take in account nobody has proved the Turin Shroud is true or real...CONGRATULATIONS AGAIN.
@modernrocks : Wrong!, the LEGEND of shroud was documented in history well over 100 years before Leonardo was born. The issue on debate is: is Turin Shroud authentic?.
Anyone who reads the Bible (a fairly dodgy source material) with an open mind cannot avoid the conclusion that Jesus did not claim any divinity for himself and made it very clear that anyone could do the things he did and that the last thing he wanted was to be worshipped by a herd of grovelling sheep. The sight of the faithful salivating over his alleged death wrapping would make him turn in his grave.
@zthetha -I think maybe you should reread the NT, as Jesus did claim to be God, many times.But especially at his trial.Remember he did also say; "the only way is thru ME"; What else would he mean by that statement? As for the Shroud, I would say, if it is his burial Shroud ( Which I believe it is, personally) it was left by him for us with a purpose.So I doubt it would bother him that we make a big deal about it.Furthermore, he can't turn in his grave, as he's not there. ;-)
Who are these people being interviewed in this video that believe Leonardo created the shroud? What a Joke! Are these people experts? Have they even researched the Shroud? I think they have absolutely no clue of the details and intricacies of the Shroud.If they did they would not come up woth such idiocracy....Idiots.Even the so-called historian has no clue.
The Shroud of Turin is not the burial cloth of Christ. Jesus has short hair. All ancient frescos ans paintings of Jewish men of Christ's time to 3-400 yrs agter Christ depict jewish men with short hair, which was the custom in the day of Christ. More important, is the Word of God. God does not break His own Word:
1Cor.11
[14] Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him?
@louisuniverse EXACTLY! Religion has become completely twisted by the ones in power in order to control the souls of the mass population..It doesn't surprise me one bit that Leonardo would mock religion, I feel Jesus would do the same today! His messages and teachings have been hidden and misrepresented!! I DO my research! I suggest you do yours!
It has been shown that the image on the shroud was not created by a contact process, but by an energy discharge, like a flash of light, thus creating an exact reproduction of surface form. However, although photographic techniques existed in medieval times and were reproduced, the shroud image is, rather than that of a photographic negative, a 3D image where the dark areas correspond to the parts of the body that were closest, and the light ones the farthest, without superimposed negatives
A shroud placed over a human face would adhere to the contours of the face. Thus, the space between, eg, the tip of nose and the eyes would be distorted when you removed the shroud. It would have a spread out, distorted and flattened look. Perspective would be lost. This could happen only if the shroud was held on a flat plane above the face, allowing perspective to be maintained. Also, consider the tip-to-tip heads: they would be solid, continuous, not pointed. It TOO real to be real.
@perseus07 This speaks to the profound ignorance, misunderstandings and hateful misrepresentations of religion people have. Neither muslims or catholics "worship" objects/images. It is simply honoring the points of contact with the divine. But all honor is ultimately directed toward God. The act of bowing in the direction of something does not itself constitute worship which belongs to God alone. Try finding out the reason behind something from a muslim or catholic before misrepresenting them.
@mnmheart ,I don't have anything against religions,I don't hate them.If you want to believe in the existence of the "divine",it's your choice.Nobody must prevent you from having that belief because we live in a society where freedom of worship is respected.But you must accept too that some people don't share those beliefs in super beings.I am one of them and where you see a "point of contact with the divine",I just see an object.
Satan is indeed the father of lies and his good at it. I believe that this is a fraud inspired by the catholics to support there false way of praising God through images. Exudos 20:4-5 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God,
The work of satan is indeed a good fraud. Its the catholics way of defending there false way of praising God through images. Exudos 20:4-5 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I am Jehovah thy God am a jealous God,
The work of satan is indeed a good fraud. Its the catholics way of defending there false way of praising God through images. Exudos 20:4-5 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God,
It is bad enough God gives us all these rules, but I have to read some big-ass book too? What is next, you have to do math problems to get into heaven?
Total crock!! ...Think about it, although LDV was not happy with the church, I don't believe he would (If he could), produce such a thing at the chance that he would be caught by the Church and undoubtably killed by the Church for doing so.Not to mention the hundreds of other things he would have to be aware of to create this relic.
The Bible says it a shame for man to have long hair. This is fake! Jesus came down through David and his son Solomon. Read Song of Solomon 1:5,6. Amos 9:7 shows what the true hebrew Israelites looked like. LOL Job 30:30. Lamentations 4:8, 5:10. Jeremiah 8:21, 14:2. Paul and Moses were mistaken for Egyptians. People just need to read the Bible for the answer. Salvation is not in this shroud, but in the word of God. Acts 2:38.
its a giant print of a statue its the first news paper that is why its a suface mark only did the blood have dna or was it chemicals the are in blood that they found that could have been used for say dyes iron ect that is in blood
Leonardo was clever to be sure. Even if he included human blood so specifically to Christ's crucifixion - whom did he ask to gather pollen found in plants from Israel to bring back to Italy to include in his (alleged) contrivance? In other words, Leonardo understood that he had to have pollen from Israel in order to carryout his perfect scheme - to fool the church, and future generations. Bullshit.
DaVinci's legendary ego would have prevented him from perpetrating and exhibiting such an "artwork" without due credit awarded to himself. If, in fact, Leonardo achieved some new development in such superb alleged photo-light-pigment technology - he would have asked for money for it, as it would solidify for himself an elevated status above his contemporaries. The irrefutable fact is: the Shroud was purported to be in heralded existence long before the great Leonardo.
@acerb45666555 sorry, not even Leonardo was capable of that at that point in time. The shroud is much older than Leonardo and its historic presence is dated centuries before Leonardo birth.
1. Deut13:1 no words will be changed or added to the Bible. Satan Islam added a new Quran twisting the ORIGINAL words of Bible god creating hate, wars.
2. Genesis 16:12 'He will be a wild donkey of a man; his hand will be against everyone and everyone's hand against him,and he will live in hostility towards all his brother' (terrorism around the world)
3.Reve 19:20 & Deuteronomy 13:1-3, false prophet Mohamed. Only Jews have been prophets in Bible Satan arab came along twisting gods words
Exactly mystisch, but detractors will continue to trump this baseless hypothesis because they have no way of accounting for the myriad of perplexing scientific pieces of evidences with which the shroud is awashed in.
hmm the only thing i could sayy about thiss..that it is his reall tomb..and he is human and every human has a place to b buried even a guy lke jesus.aka god
If the shroud is fake. Why wont we create one. We have knowledge,the equipment... Unyet we cant duplicate it. Simply bec it is done by someone divine. Someone that all of us cant understand.
Like usual, your faith has your vision cropped to the point that you can not even see what lays right before your very eyes. Turn your head ever so slightly and you may just see the truth. Watch all 6 parts of this awesome documentary and you will see that not only is the shroud completely recreated but completely explained...but I suppose that you do not believe in dinosuars, pre-historic hominids and science in general.
@torchum then how do you account for all the physical evidence that says it is not a painting or photograph.the carbon dating was flawed but may be redone on a different part of the clothe.new video done on this..i'll send you the link.
I know people want proof God exisit but when they get a small proof they deny it and think of another explanation for the claim. Nothing will make people believe in God even if God came down from heaven himself people would dismiss it. That is why the Bible says a lot of people will go to hell.
@Jerseygirl8999 To be honest, its difficult either way since its dangerous to believe certain claims [not necessarily just this] because it could actually be an evil plot, but then 'if' God did come down and we dismissed Him, we'd be idiots. I dunno, gees theres so many stories out there, people saying the world will end May 2011 coz its in the bible [they say], others say 12/12/12, i watched a video saying something about Prince William and the antichrist. I'm fed up any claim to be honest.
Thats why you look only to the Bible and not to mens understanding..the Bible says that we should not look to anyone else not to other people not even to our own hearts because our hearts are deceitful...you are to trust God and the words he spoke which is found only in the Bible there I personally believe you will find your answers if you study and read it carefully.And if you want to know about the end of the world read the book of Revelation found in the Bible dont go on youtube.
@Jerseygirl8999 looking at the Bible without modern human understanding implies that the language in which it was wrote won't be readable. You NEED human knowledge to understand human written language. If you put linguistic knowledge aside, it will be as watching a drawing.
@Jerseygirl8999 I have no problem with the idea of god(s), though I am agnostic, just with the few people who wail that people go to hell if they don't believe. If your God is so egomaniacal he doesn't care about people being good and still punishes them, just because they made the one "mistake" and didn't believe in him, then I will gladly go to hell.
I know Christians who are tolerant and nice and never threaten decent people with hell. Why do I never see that type on youtube?
The Bible makes it clear that there will be a lot of "good" people in Hell because God demands PERFECTION anything short of being perfect does not deserve to be in his sight or persence. The Bible goes on to say that the good deeds that people do for the unsaved will be what God will judge them on and send them to hell. Because they believed they could some how buy their way into heaven when the Bible makes it clear that salvation is a free gift
Also the Bible says that in the eyes of God there is no one that does good all hearts are wicked and corrupted and it is not just a matter of simply believing in God that will get a person to heaven..because the Bible says even the demons in hell believe in God Satan himself believes in God and knows he exist darkness trembles at the voice of the creator but Belief in God or a God will not get anyone into heaven only to hell because its not enough to just believe.
The Bible demands that a Christian trust God that in order for truth to prevail in that persons life a Christian must die spiritually each and every day.Christian must trust God even at their worse times and glorify Him. Christian must give up things that are consider wicked in the eyes of God out of obedience. Christian must continue to repent and turn from sin. And a true Christian skin must become senstive to sin.the Bible tells us this is more important to God then just simply "belief"
I don't know what you mean when you said "tolerant"Christians if by tolerant you mean "Christians" who think that everything sinful is okay just because they don't want to come off as being offensive or want to sound politically correct then these are not true Christians. Also I hope you realize what you ask for because Hell is not only a place of torment it is complete separation from the Creator who wraps himself in light. If you wish to be in hell God will give you your desires.
Well the Bible would sound stupid to you wouldn't it
1st Corinthians 1:18 "For the message of the Cross is foolishness to those who are perishing but to us who are being saved it is the power of God."
2nd Corinthians 4:3 "& even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing"
1 Corinthians 1:21 "For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not come to know God God was well-pleased through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe."
No need to prove anything.. the shroud tells all. The Vatican did not allow any scientist to examine the shroud. Worrying that it would prove otherwise. People got to be nuts to believe that Christ was wrapped in it! lol
It is so ridiculous to say that Leonardo made the Shroud. No one has duplicated the creation of an image similar to the Shroud. Leonardo was not god and did not radiate a cloth that originated in the 1st century. I could care less what the liars said in 1988 with there carbon test.
"The suggestion that the 1532 Chambery fire changed the date of the cloth is ludicrous. Samples for C-dating are routinely and completely burned to CO2 as part of a well-tested purification procedure. The suggestions that modern biological contaminants were sufficient to modernize the date are also ridiculous. A weight of 20th century carbon equaling nearly two times the weight of the Shroud carbon itself would be required to change a 1st century date to the 14th century." - Dr. Walter McCrone
@MoskowFreak1111 When did that happen? Try learning a little bit about carbon dating, you don't get multiple independent labs coming back with the same results by accident, and even if you ignore and dismiss carbon dating that does nothing to address the many other problems with the shroud.
Like they used carbon dating.... HINT HINT ,THAT TECHNOLOGY IS FALSE GUYS !! ITS THE SAME THING THAT SUPPORTED DARWINISM WHAT CHRISTIANS HATE! WHY WOULD YOU TRUST IT FOR YOUR PRECIOUS CLOTH
FILMS CAN BE FIXED YOU KNOW, LIKE THEY PROVED ILLUMINATI WAS FALSE ON DISCOVERY WHILE IN REAL LIFE THERES SO MUCH EVIDENCE!!
i believe that the shroud is real, i am muslim , but if the shroud was real, it doesn't disprove islam for the fallowing
-the quran said jesus was never killed by the people, he was raised in the sky
but crucifixion was still present at that time, the shroud to me could be made by any man who had paint or color on him and stamped it on the cloth crucifyed or not, all it is to me is a miracly of any sort what so ever but it does not disprove islam, it's a print of some guy who got killed,
Just so everybody knows - as days go by, the shroud gets more and more genuine. First, they admitted that the blood is real, not painted, then they admitted that the carbon dating was done of new repairs (one of the most terrible carbon dating blunders in known history), NOW, they've found aramaic writing on the shroud, dated at at least 1800 years old. It gives me such pleasure to wipe the smirk off the faces of you unbelievers.
woops...im sorry I meant it was confirmed that the shroud/texture and cloth was 2000 years ago during the time of chirst. I'm not saying it definetly is. sorry for that mistake.
Not only to mention that theres recorded history of that cloth being in existence from the 1100s. Yes. There is paintings of making of the cloth with the same herring bone pattern and the 4 holes in the cloth in the same arrangment. If you dont know...Da Vinci was born in 1452. Davinci painted the picture of jesus we recognize now which is the real deception. Also it was privately owned it didnt belong to a church for a millenia and a 1/2 1357 was the first time it was shown publicly. lol
It's ironic that the unbelievers who made this film used people of science who believe the shroud is authentic and carefully edited them. They didn't happen to mention this. They will do anything they can to bring down Christ with their nonsense, Real scientists say it's the true burial cloth of Christ. So get over it- get on your knees and pray!
Tried to say it was a painting but they couldn't find any paint so that was out. Then tried to say that Da vinci created it as a photo - so lets get this- he invented the concept of photography and then the whole world never elaborated any more on that until they 'RE- dicovered' it 500 years later and were amazed?? Get over it ! Its Jesus, as decribed in the bible Plus Da Vinci was an athiest and he did'nt believe in Christ, plus it DOES date back to Christ. In their ignorance they will perish'
Lately, I've debunked ufo videos through psychology. When you apply normal human reactions to an event, then see if they match the video or picture, a new story unfolds. This is a fake. Not only is the hair straight down, but he is hiding his genitalia. A dead body can not bend over and lay down at the same time and would not die hiding his manhood from prying eyes. The psychology is just wrong in this picture.
What you are saying sounds reasonable but, you are using psychology on a dead person in this case which is differnt from say applying it to living peole seeing a ufo. He didnt chose to be in that position. He was entombed that way. My grandmother died and she had her arms crossed when she was put in her casket. By your interpretation it would imply that she was somehow self concious about her breats. The makers of this film have already made up thier mind, have you? look up the sudarium.
Well, sir, you just put doubt into my sureness. Not bad. I shall reconsider my position. You are quite correct, they could have put his hands over his genitles, though I have never heard of that practice, perhaps, after death, his arms were too stretched to put in any other way. And the stretching would have allowed him to have them reach that far without being bent. Very good, you really made me think about this some more. Thank you.
I've had to revise my theory. Arms being stretched on the cross could allow for his hands to be positioned over his genitles. Also, they could have put oil and spices in his hair, which would make it look like it was flowing straight down, but in fact was just stiff with oils or beef lard mixed with spices.
Once again, my mind is not fully made up on the matter.
This video is very biased. The blood on this cloth and the cloth on the sudarium are not paint theyve been identified as blood and are the same persons blood. Davinci was born a little less then 100 years after this cloth was first shown. If it was faked it wasnt him. The people who made this video obviously didnt do thier research on Leo. Im glad your willing to open you mind to the possibility of it being what it might be. I cant say 100% for myself, but its more likely not to be fake.
And why does the hair fall straight down?! And why is a corpse bleeding?! Corpses don't bleed, especially down the face when he's supposed to laying down, thats silly. And if it had been wrapped around the body, surely the image would have been sort of bloated. And why is the head on wrong? It looks decapitated and too small for the body.
Leonardo had access to blood and bodies...........(he dabbed it on)..the face on the shroud is his own perfect face as in his illustrations and notebooks. The head is superimposed on the negative image.......davinci also experimented with lenses.....the shroud has a negative image.
@SpeciousGwa >As I find myself asking of many of you somewhat illiterates; IF you would take the time or make the effort to educate yourself on the Shroud, by reading proper documents and not trusting the circus media, you would find the answers to all your questions.So please READ!
Why is the hair the same colour as the skin on the negative image? Surely that would mean both skin and hair was of a very light shade, interestingly enough Leonardo's hair was supposed to have gone white very quickly, hmmm.
Whoa - da vinci was good painting a picture, getting it to turn up so we could see it a a later date. putting pollens on it that correspond to it being the burial cloth of Jesus. and doing it so it would have a 3d image and blood tye and roman coins deciphened on the eyes later!. These athesists even paid someone £1,000000 to prove it fake and gave him a chair in a university if he would say its a fake. Thats because they hate Jesus, but he is watching them an will judge them!
People can worship them! They have every right! the church paid the Artisans of the time small fortunes to spread the word since back in those days most people could not read or write!
But Leonardo was already playing with " Foto Oscura" Dark Photography! Back in the days! Including the Germans called him a demon because he was fascinated with mirrors. They acussed Leonardo of practicing " The Dark Arts"
I admired the people from the medieval ages who have a strong faith in the shroud even though they look at it in positive image (ghostly image) how much more when they will see it in negative image.
God must be getting a good laugh out of this. People have gone to the absurd in order to declare this thing a fake. Sure a guy back in the middle ages is going to produce a 3d picture that can only be seen by using a photographic plate. I don't really care if this is or isn't the "shroud." What is important is that people go nuts trying to disprove it, the harder they try the more foolish they seem be be. People are trying real hard to disprove God's existence. They will never accomplish it!
wow, you're a cunt. It isn't the shroud, it's been dated quite well. People go nuts because it's still a piece of history worthy of origin study, and you haven't quite proved any god's existence let alone your favorite one. Came up with any proper rebuttal to the problem of evil, the eternal things which also were created, the old testaments oopsies, the specter of philosophical and scientific failures throughout all of a millenia old tribal myth that has no value but to the disheartened?
the carbon dating on the shroud was proven by Thermochemica Acta and Los Alamos Labs to have been INVALID. Do your homework.
The "problem of evil" was dealt with thousands of years ago. People keep hashing it up because it is very difficult to deal with personally. Intellectually, however, it has been dealt with.
When you deal with it personally, it is all too human to say things like "My God, My God, why have you abandoned me?"
I understand why you have issues with evil. We all do.
Jesus specifically repudiates the Jewish idea of a political messiah, and thus specifically repudiates the common interpretation of the warlike passages of the OT.
He says that those who "live" by the sword, die by it, because we live by the Word of God.
We may survive by the sword, but we can only truly "live" through God.
We are entitled to fight for survival, establish gov't's with armies, and tax ourselves in order to do this ("render unto caesar").....
(cont'd)....But we can to TRULY "live" we must choose God, not the sword.
Hence, Religious warfare is a no-no.
It was NEVER acceptable in God's eyes, and the OT merely confuses the right of Israel to survive as a nation with the sword, with the divine law of God.
These are moral confusions Jesus clears up. Likewise, scientific confusions evident in Genesis, are also for us to "clear up". Like Jesus, we must separate mistaken assumptions of the past, with the Divine Word.
So, Old Testament "oopsies", whether moral or scientific, have been either already dealt with in Christianity, or can be dealt with by modern christians, precisely BECAUSE our tradition depends in large part on Christ HIMSELF separating what was false and true in the Old Testament.
In short, only Christ is God, and he specifically acknowledged the fallibility of his own religious tradition.
We are not God, but we must always attempt to do the same with the ideas we inherit..
The Judeo/Christian tradition isn't just a collection sayings and books, but an actual story.
When we intuitively feel that having stolen something from our neighbor is wrong, or that calling your mother on Mother's day is Good, we hear the silent voice of God in our hearts.
This voice speaks to ALL mankind in ALL ages, even cavemen.
The Judeo/Christian tradition is the TRUTH of this reality, being expressed in human culture and in human history.
Those who follow this silent voice, who prize it over anything else in their lives, are those who follow God. They are saved by Jesus (who is the "Way", "Truth", and "Life" they have been unknowingly following) at the end of time.
The Old Testament is the story of mankind's growing understanding of this reality. The Jews built upon their inheritance, flawed though it may have been.
When history reaches a certain point; BAM! --The Messiah shows, who tells us about God, and who IS God.
He fulfills all that was Good and True in the Jewish tradition, and declares false all that wasn't .
He comes back from the dead not because he had nothing better to do that Sunday morning, but because he IS God, and is the Truth of God expressed on earth.
God is Life, and the Truth of this Life is best expressed in Jesus' resurrection.
Moreover, by rising from the dead, Jesus becomes our road back to the unadulterated presence of the almighty.
Jesus' followers are all capable of making mistakes. The Gospels wouldn't be titled "according to" if regular human beings were perfect. We aren't.
Nevertheless, History has been impregnated with the presence of the divine.
If you stop listening to idiotic and utterly pathetic tales of how Leonardo Da Vinci pulled the Shroud out of his ass, and actually OPEN YOUR EYES to what is in front of you, you might actually see the peaceful face of God, in whose image we are made.
then you claim god made mistakes in the old, and jesus explicitly supports the old testament, the guy was a jew. No, the problem of evil hasn't been dealt with. You don't have an omnipotent omnibenevolent being who controls a part labeled by himself as evil, unless he keeps it that way.You haven't read the bible if you don't think religious war is acceptable in God's eyes. You're supposed to kill me, and where are the Amalakites, by the way?
You might say that a "just" war not being divine in at least SOME way is a contradiction in terms. After all, how could it be "Just" if it did not participate in some way with a divine sense of Justice?
But the answer lies in the fact that we do not define God in this world. God's will does not depend on our fists or armies.
We define ourselves.
A man is "good" only insofar as he chooses God , but in the end, only God is Good with a capital "G".
If lenardo Da vinci did this then he would have the hand pericinigs on the palm of the hand instead of the wrist to have people believe it. The shroud is not a hoax because of this!
well if he had such a thorough knowledge of it, why didn't he correct his peers on their MISGUIDED representations of Jesus in the crucifixion?
Let me guess, this is more knowledge that leonardo has, which he doesn't share with anyone, while hoping that it will be discovered in the future so that he can be vindicated. Isn't that what you dumb asses say about photography?
He"invented" it but told no one?
you guys are grasping at a flaky-ass leonardo did it bullshit story.
I think the case for da Vinci making the shroud is overwhelming. I am convinced that it was him, the guy was a pure genius.
1776bricks 1 day ago
Leonardo Divinchi did not paint the shroud. He never painted with human blood and the image on the shroud is made of myrrh, a tree resin that comes from Israel. It has already been positively identified as myrrh from 1st Century. The image contains the carbohydrate formula C6 H10 O5. When it hardens it becomes glossy and hard. Light sensative and reflective. It also contains cellulose, when exposed to light forms an invisible image in reverse color. That is what is on the Shroud. A Photo.
GoodShepard007 2 days ago
you forgot the question mark in the title.
AuroraSunset 1 month ago in playlist Leonardo - The Man Behind the Shroud
Sure it could of been anyman that was crucified
Dectheboner 1 month ago
Leonardo certainly created the shroud. He was a brave man to do this realizing that not 50 years before him,Bruno had been burned at the stake by the Catholic church for saying the earth revolves around the sun along with other planets. Today however we see the Vatican being helped by Israeli scientists who claim the shroud valid by some 'pollen from the Middle East' they had found in it............. LMAO
tjrxk7 2 months ago
what music is played in the intro? (when the title flashes up)
plagueofangels666 2 months ago
It takes an amazing mind to create an amazing fake, and Leonardo DaVinci had such a mind...
rarosera 5 months ago
god created earth & all her splenders... then man...he gave us mother earth to use as our home...even introduced us to his son/family.. look what we did/do/doing to all that ...worst guests on the plant...... i feel ashamed....treat everything on earth as you would teach your own children how to behave when VISITING some one elses house.....knock & WAIT to be invitied in, for starters........simple manners....... one earth......
kickinfish 8 months ago
leonardo or not, who ever did that shroud was a fucking genius
davlor86 9 months ago
And what is outstanding is the total contrast between the brilliance of the Shroud and the mediocrity of the attempts to capture it in paint.
BTW, the dates of the medieval, (not Renaissance when Leonardo lived), paintings and drawings of the Shroud are proof in themselves that the artists knew the original Shroud centuries before Leonardo. Why otherwise draw Shrouds with images on them? That Shroud image is nowhere in the NT as inspiration! Unless a real original model existed to copy...
Porphyrygrampus 10 months ago
That fake Italian historian, so clearly member of an anticlerical sect, with his talk about all the images of shrouds in the Middle Ages. Sure there are such paintings that are done with real paint: but in those days one couldn't photograph the real Shroud. One had to paint it, and then take it away to some distant church where people cd see what the Shroud looked like. That's why there are some tiny spots of paint on the Shroud, flipped from copiers' brushes. But they don't form its image.
Porphyrygrampus 10 months ago
I don't believe Jesus was at all divine. But I think the shroud is wicked cool and have done since I was a kid. It's so macabre! It doesn't need to be holy to be awesome.
demonella 11 months ago
You see, im not a believer of Christianity, But i can say this, I think there is something, a greater power persay. But sciencetists seem to want to disprove christianity and that in itself is wrong, its is basicly a middle finger to millions who have faith. In fact i remeber watching a programme called the face of jesus and it basicly proved the only way the image of a man was on the shround was by light, like the light from a scanner. So thats leads me to think SOMETHING Godly happened
Lollipop708 1 year ago 2
I think chiaroscuro technique could explain it too. A plate of glass with the figure drawn using chiaroscuro technique could play the role of the negative plate, like used by photographers during revealing process of any photo. This technique would be useful to explain why the image looks so flat and burned. This technique is not so unusual if we consider that people used to place curtains in front of stained glass windows and there was a lot of sunlight sensitive substances during Mid Age.
Leivinn20 1 year ago
@Leivinn20 The shroud image contains 3d data. No photo or painting has 3d data.
sned10000 1 year ago
@sned10000 : The folds of the fabric also. In reality the image is flat , we can to measure it. the image made by mean of chiaroscuro technique contains 3D information too.
Leivinn20 1 year ago
@Leivinn20 Yeh m8, just had a peek at your profile. looks good. ill check the videos out tonite. One of the first things to convince me the shroud is authentic is, if you look up all the artwork done on jesus's crucifixtion (Google images is pretty good) You'll see that everyone allways thought he was nailed through the palm. The shroud image has wounds going through the wrist. It only recently that we found out the romans must have driven the nails through the victims wrist.
sned10000 1 year ago
@Leivinn20 So you would have thought that if this is a medievil hoax, why did they go against the traditional perception of the nails going through the palm. Also the blood on the shroud is real (type AB, common in the middle east, rare in medievil europe.) But yeh do watch the documentarys. If you enjoy mysteries, you've hit the jackpot with the shroud. We can't duplicate the image on the shroud (even with todays technology)
sned10000 1 year ago
@sned10000 : All features mentioned by me can be measure directly on the shroud. Your evidence is circumstantial, it's not so strange if any catholic clergyman had known the exactly how Romans used crucify to prisoners...they had the libraries. One can't to contradict direct evidence.
Leivinn20 1 year ago
@sned10000 : i mean: ...if any catholic clergyman had known exactly how Romans used crucify to prisoners...
Leivinn20 1 year ago
@Leivinn20 Yeh i see what your saying. If you find the time serach on youtube "Shroud of Turin Expert Barrie Schwortz" theres a 12 part video on it, Barrie schwortz knows more about the shroud than anyone. And in google search"shroud turin facts" and the first one that comes up, should say somthing like "story guide" thats a quick, very readable summary. Let me know what you think after you've had a look at them. Whatever conclusion you come to, its fascinating stuff all the same.
sned10000 1 year ago
@sned10000 : I am going to download the sequence titled " "Shroud of Turin Expert Barrie.." for watch them, and for training my ears on English. However, I don't believe that Vatican will remove it some day because could be very dangerous, taking in account there are a lot of people whom believe on supernatural origin of shroud, regardless any definitive proof. A lot of people might go into shock. That image doesn't match with any human body. There are experts and "experts"...you know.
Leivinn20 1 year ago
It was the Churchs way of saying you dont believe in Christ,
well then will make you feel the pain he went threw & maybe you'll appreciate his death... So in the end they (the church) mocked Molay by doing the very thing he was accused of doing.
The Shroud was owned by Charney family who were dirrect desendents of Jean de Charney, who was roasted alive with Molay so it really makes you think that it wasnt Jesus!....but then again you never know ...it could be lol....but I highly doubt it!
Lauzon12 1 year ago
@Lauzon12 Nah m8 that's BS. Theres evidence that the shroud existed before Jacques Molay was even born, inside the pray codex.
sned10000 1 year ago
@sned10000 oh dont get me wrong there has been many shrouds and ones thats pre-date Molay but it was'nt Jesus because of the fact that scientist carbon dated the shroud and it's only 700 years old!...so unless we're wrong about when the time of Jesus was alive or that it just was'nt Jesus lol... I think we just want it to be so bad that we tend to believe it without evidence
Lauzon12 1 year ago
@Lauzon12 but like I said befor you never know because then the other half of it dose say it's ancient!?
so it's a lil weird i'll give you that, im open minded!
Lauzon12 1 year ago
@Lauzon12 The carbon 14 tests were invalid. They found that in the samples they tested there were cotten fibers interwoven with the linen and traces of dye, suggesting an "invisible repair job (a medievil technique) Parts of the shroud were cut off over time and sold as relics (there was huge trade for relics in medievil times) to repair the edges of the shroud they used the invisible technique.
sned10000 1 year ago
@Lauzon12 Theres also rear projection photos of the shroud showing the discolouring around the repaired parts (where the samples were taken). I know what you mean, im open minded and i didn't really think much of the shroud. it wasn't until i saw a documentary about it on the BBC a few years ago. If you just search on youtube for the latest documentary (theres a few of them) or even better, visit the website "shrouddotcom" theres plenty of info on there. Its a fascinating artifact.
sned10000 1 year ago
@sned10000 yea absolutely i'll cheak it out, it's exciting to know there is still some things out in the world that are mysterious and unexplained even to this day with all our so called "technology"...this is deffinitely worth researching more into!
thanks for the info ;)
Lauzon12 1 year ago
@Lauzon12 No probs m8. If you actually search "BBC shroud turin" thats a good 1. Yeh definitely, Im the same. I'v no doubt you'll find the shroud really interesting.
sned10000 1 year ago
@sned10000 Yea you seem to be into all that kinda stuff the same as me...come cheak out my channel it's got some good videos in my playlists I think you'll like ...anyways come cheak it out if your up for it!
Cheers Bud
Lauzon12 1 year ago
Haven't even watch the video yet but the Shroud of Turin is'nt Jesus it was Jacques Molay the last Grand Master of the Knights Templar he was crucified in the exact same way Jesus was because when the Inquisition accused the Knights of mocking Christ and with forced confessions from arrested Templars they admitted that they 'denied Christ' and 'spat on the cross and much more...So the church had him crusified but they still kept alive for the big bon fire on Friday 13 October 1307! Research ppl!
Lauzon12 1 year ago
This documentary video is the most scientific analysis about Turin Shroud than I have seen until now . Congratulations. It´s quite disgraceful that scientists have to prove that the Shroud is false, if we take in account nobody has proved the Turin Shroud is true or real...CONGRATULATIONS AGAIN.
Leivinn20 1 year ago
the shroud was documented in history well over 100 years before leonardo was born
modernrocks 1 year ago
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@modernrocks : Wrong!, the LEGEND of shroud was documented in history well over 100 years before Leonardo was born. The issue on debate is: is Turin Shroud authentic?.
Leivinn20 1 year ago
Anyone who reads the Bible (a fairly dodgy source material) with an open mind cannot avoid the conclusion that Jesus did not claim any divinity for himself and made it very clear that anyone could do the things he did and that the last thing he wanted was to be worshipped by a herd of grovelling sheep. The sight of the faithful salivating over his alleged death wrapping would make him turn in his grave.
zthetha 1 year ago
@zthetha -I think maybe you should reread the NT, as Jesus did claim to be God, many times.But especially at his trial.Remember he did also say; "the only way is thru ME"; What else would he mean by that statement? As for the Shroud, I would say, if it is his burial Shroud ( Which I believe it is, personally) it was left by him for us with a purpose.So I doubt it would bother him that we make a big deal about it.Furthermore, he can't turn in his grave, as he's not there. ;-)
Flagrum3 1 year ago
Who are these people being interviewed in this video that believe Leonardo created the shroud? What a Joke! Are these people experts? Have they even researched the Shroud? I think they have absolutely no clue of the details and intricacies of the Shroud.If they did they would not come up woth such idiocracy....Idiots.Even the so-called historian has no clue.
Flagrum3 1 year ago
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The Shroud of Turin is not the burial cloth of Christ. Jesus has short hair. All ancient frescos ans paintings of Jewish men of Christ's time to 3-400 yrs agter Christ depict jewish men with short hair, which was the custom in the day of Christ. More important, is the Word of God. God does not break His own Word:
1Cor.11
[14] Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him?
NephilimFree 1 year ago
Idolatry at it's finest! What was the woman kissing at 9:14? Her MUMMY, LOL!
RudeAwakning 1 year ago
I personally believe that Leonardo Da Vinci was the reincarnation of Jesus...THAT IS THE CODE PEOPLE!
I have higher angelic sources that have told me so :)
AngelsCallMeJesus 1 year ago
@AngelsCallMeJesus Leonardo repeatedly mocked religion... sorry to ruin your fairytale .. do your research before claiming such idiotic things.
louisuniverse 1 year ago
@louisuniverse EXACTLY! Religion has become completely twisted by the ones in power in order to control the souls of the mass population..It doesn't surprise me one bit that Leonardo would mock religion, I feel Jesus would do the same today! His messages and teachings have been hidden and misrepresented!! I DO my research! I suggest you do yours!
AngelsCallMeJesus 1 year ago
the woman at 3:15 sums up religion
tommyenglish1 1 year ago
It has been shown that the image on the shroud was not created by a contact process, but by an energy discharge, like a flash of light, thus creating an exact reproduction of surface form. However, although photographic techniques existed in medieval times and were reproduced, the shroud image is, rather than that of a photographic negative, a 3D image where the dark areas correspond to the parts of the body that were closest, and the light ones the farthest, without superimposed negatives
mnmheart 1 year ago
A shroud placed over a human face would adhere to the contours of the face. Thus, the space between, eg, the tip of nose and the eyes would be distorted when you removed the shroud. It would have a spread out, distorted and flattened look. Perspective would be lost. This could happen only if the shroud was held on a flat plane above the face, allowing perspective to be maintained. Also, consider the tip-to-tip heads: they would be solid, continuous, not pointed. It TOO real to be real.
202rickh 1 year ago
If muslim worship a rock,why could catholic not worship a shroud?
perseus07 1 year ago
@perseus07 This speaks to the profound ignorance, misunderstandings and hateful misrepresentations of religion people have. Neither muslims or catholics "worship" objects/images. It is simply honoring the points of contact with the divine. But all honor is ultimately directed toward God. The act of bowing in the direction of something does not itself constitute worship which belongs to God alone. Try finding out the reason behind something from a muslim or catholic before misrepresenting them.
mnmheart 1 year ago
@mnmheart ,I don't have anything against religions,I don't hate them.If you want to believe in the existence of the "divine",it's your choice.Nobody must prevent you from having that belief because we live in a society where freedom of worship is respected.But you must accept too that some people don't share those beliefs in super beings.I am one of them and where you see a "point of contact with the divine",I just see an object.
perseus07 1 year ago
Satan is indeed the father of lies and his good at it. I believe that this is a fraud inspired by the catholics to support there false way of praising God through images. Exudos 20:4-5 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God,
aryanforsale 1 year ago
The work of satan is indeed a good fraud. Its the catholics way of defending there false way of praising God through images. Exudos 20:4-5 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I am Jehovah thy God am a jealous God,
aryanforsale 1 year ago
The work of satan is indeed a good fraud. Its the catholics way of defending there false way of praising God through images. Exudos 20:4-5 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God,
aryanforsale 1 year ago
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God, Our Lord and King Jesus Christ let bless You!!!
It`s the TRUE and everyone should compare that 3d picture(Manoppello) to the 2d. shroud of Turin to be sure not some fictional models!!!
Poor face of God beaten to death for our sins!
How people can say they don`t love Him-they dont have heart?
JezusSlave 1 year ago
if you watch shroud of turin (frraul) you will see that it's the real thing
pollens found from the middle east to france and italy where it made it journey
kimura2Loc 1 year ago
It is bad enough God gives us all these rules, but I have to read some big-ass book too? What is next, you have to do math problems to get into heaven?
robotpanda77 1 year ago
@robotpanda77lol, i fail a math problem I go straight to hell
middletonization 1 year ago
Total crock!! ...Think about it, although LDV was not happy with the church, I don't believe he would (If he could), produce such a thing at the chance that he would be caught by the Church and undoubtably killed by the Church for doing so.Not to mention the hundreds of other things he would have to be aware of to create this relic.
Flagrum3 1 year ago
Everyone who seriously studies the Shroud even for an hour must conclude it cannot have been Leonardo.
Thanks for putting up such drivel ! It will prove something to people - not about the Shroud but about those trying to use it for propaganda.
LooksAeterna 1 year ago
@LooksAeterna I know right. Leonardo must of had an atomic laser (this technology doesn't exist even today, only in theory).
watch?v=WMLZt_LHFD0
TheSabazios 1 year ago
The shroud was on display many years before Da Vinci was born for fucks sake, stop using youtube as a teaching aid you morons.
dortyhoor 1 year ago
damid i wish i could write backwords like leonardo could :(
livingdragonn 1 year ago
The Bible says it a shame for man to have long hair. This is fake! Jesus came down through David and his son Solomon. Read Song of Solomon 1:5,6. Amos 9:7 shows what the true hebrew Israelites looked like. LOL Job 30:30. Lamentations 4:8, 5:10. Jeremiah 8:21, 14:2. Paul and Moses were mistaken for Egyptians. People just need to read the Bible for the answer. Salvation is not in this shroud, but in the word of God. Acts 2:38.
rossdaboss1959 1 year ago
@rossdaboss1959 The whole reason Jesus was crucified is because he rebelled against the Roman empire. He could have had long hair.
lpackgrays7781 1 year ago
this all sounds like a load of bullshit to me
Nightwithe 1 year ago
@Nightwithe It only makes sense to people prepared to listen. I hope that one day you will come to understand
diamond3187 1 year ago
its a giant print of a statue its the first news paper that is why its a suface mark only did the blood have dna or was it chemicals the are in blood that they found that could have been used for say dyes iron ect that is in blood
fallbread 1 year ago
it's got real blood on it
MoskowFreak1111 1 year ago
I believe it's real.
AVengefulSoul 1 year ago 2
Leonardo was clever to be sure. Even if he included human blood so specifically to Christ's crucifixion - whom did he ask to gather pollen found in plants from Israel to bring back to Italy to include in his (alleged) contrivance? In other words, Leonardo understood that he had to have pollen from Israel in order to carryout his perfect scheme - to fool the church, and future generations. Bullshit.
elvisworldwide 1 year ago
DaVinci's legendary ego would have prevented him from perpetrating and exhibiting such an "artwork" without due credit awarded to himself. If, in fact, Leonardo achieved some new development in such superb alleged photo-light-pigment technology - he would have asked for money for it, as it would solidify for himself an elevated status above his contemporaries. The irrefutable fact is: the Shroud was purported to be in heralded existence long before the great Leonardo.
elvisworldwide 1 year ago
banksy did it..........................
aifammafiaaifam 1 year ago 2
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Watch "UVIDEOSU" Channel video series
"New Science - Now Proves Jesus Christ"
was crucified and resurrected
and..."the gospel on the shroud" series
uvideosu 1 year ago
2:19...........i like her much more than the Mona Lisa!
acerb45666555 1 year ago
well, even its a fake, its a damn good one! and i wanna know the genius who may have made it! and Leonardo was very capable of such a creation!
acerb45666555 1 year ago
@acerb45666555 sorry, not even Leonardo was capable of that at that point in time. The shroud is much older than Leonardo and its historic presence is dated centuries before Leonardo birth.
lidiabonini 1 year ago
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this teen looks like one I chatted to on tiny[.]cc/analsex831
BykaheZypomec 2 years ago
can someone explain why its fake ? thank you
evil9MMPEARLGRIP 2 years ago
Did you even watch the video? Your Shroud of Turin wasn't even the only one, there were many Shrouds and many of them with images.
Atheistx82 2 years ago
1. Deut13:1 no words will be changed or added to the Bible. Satan Islam added a new Quran twisting the ORIGINAL words of Bible god creating hate, wars.
2. Genesis 16:12 'He will be a wild donkey of a man; his hand will be against everyone and everyone's hand against him,and he will live in hostility towards all his brother' (terrorism around the world)
3.Reve 19:20 & Deuteronomy 13:1-3, false prophet Mohamed. Only Jews have been prophets in Bible Satan arab came along twisting gods words
hal2014 2 years ago
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MrZetterlund777 2 years ago
The known history of the shroud of Turin precedes Da Vinci`s birth for about a hundred years.
mystisch112 2 years ago
Exactly mystisch, but detractors will continue to trump this baseless hypothesis because they have no way of accounting for the myriad of perplexing scientific pieces of evidences with which the shroud is awashed in.
chopthehay 2 years ago
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MrZetterlund777 2 years ago
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MrZetterlund777 2 years ago
hmm the only thing i could sayy about thiss..that it is his reall tomb..and he is human and every human has a place to b buried even a guy lke jesus.aka god
bboydizzy69 2 years ago
Leonardo has the gift to SEE like US.
a gifted artist given by our creator.
If the shroud is fake. Why wont we create one. We have knowledge,the equipment... Unyet we cant duplicate it. Simply bec it is done by someone divine. Someone that all of us cant understand.
goldenredfox 2 years ago
Like usual, your faith has your vision cropped to the point that you can not even see what lays right before your very eyes. Turn your head ever so slightly and you may just see the truth. Watch all 6 parts of this awesome documentary and you will see that not only is the shroud completely recreated but completely explained...but I suppose that you do not believe in dinosuars, pre-historic hominids and science in general.
torchum 2 years ago
thanks for the laughs...
condorito29 2 years ago
@torchum then how do you account for all the physical evidence that says it is not a painting or photograph.the carbon dating was flawed but may be redone on a different part of the clothe.new video done on this..i'll send you the link.
draconusrex33 2 years ago
The shroud is just a image of Leonardo himself.
KingUser2008 2 years ago 9
I know people want proof God exisit but when they get a small proof they deny it and think of another explanation for the claim. Nothing will make people believe in God even if God came down from heaven himself people would dismiss it. That is why the Bible says a lot of people will go to hell.
Jerseygirl8999 2 years ago 2
@Jerseygirl8999 To be honest, its difficult either way since its dangerous to believe certain claims [not necessarily just this] because it could actually be an evil plot, but then 'if' God did come down and we dismissed Him, we'd be idiots. I dunno, gees theres so many stories out there, people saying the world will end May 2011 coz its in the bible [they say], others say 12/12/12, i watched a video saying something about Prince William and the antichrist. I'm fed up any claim to be honest.
diamond3187 1 year ago
Thats why you look only to the Bible and not to mens understanding..the Bible says that we should not look to anyone else not to other people not even to our own hearts because our hearts are deceitful...you are to trust God and the words he spoke which is found only in the Bible there I personally believe you will find your answers if you study and read it carefully.And if you want to know about the end of the world read the book of Revelation found in the Bible dont go on youtube.
Jerseygirl8999 1 year ago 2
@Jerseygirl8999 Thanks for all you've written
diamond3187 1 year ago
@Jerseygirl8999 looking at the Bible without modern human understanding implies that the language in which it was wrote won't be readable. You NEED human knowledge to understand human written language. If you put linguistic knowledge aside, it will be as watching a drawing.
kernelpanikteam 1 year ago
@Jerseygirl8999 I have no problem with the idea of god(s), though I am agnostic, just with the few people who wail that people go to hell if they don't believe. If your God is so egomaniacal he doesn't care about people being good and still punishes them, just because they made the one "mistake" and didn't believe in him, then I will gladly go to hell.
I know Christians who are tolerant and nice and never threaten decent people with hell. Why do I never see that type on youtube?
BarrenAlmond 1 year ago
The Bible makes it clear that there will be a lot of "good" people in Hell because God demands PERFECTION anything short of being perfect does not deserve to be in his sight or persence. The Bible goes on to say that the good deeds that people do for the unsaved will be what God will judge them on and send them to hell. Because they believed they could some how buy their way into heaven when the Bible makes it clear that salvation is a free gift
Jerseygirl8999 1 year ago
Also the Bible says that in the eyes of God there is no one that does good all hearts are wicked and corrupted and it is not just a matter of simply believing in God that will get a person to heaven..because the Bible says even the demons in hell believe in God Satan himself believes in God and knows he exist darkness trembles at the voice of the creator but Belief in God or a God will not get anyone into heaven only to hell because its not enough to just believe.
Jerseygirl8999 1 year ago
The Bible demands that a Christian trust God that in order for truth to prevail in that persons life a Christian must die spiritually each and every day.Christian must trust God even at their worse times and glorify Him. Christian must give up things that are consider wicked in the eyes of God out of obedience. Christian must continue to repent and turn from sin. And a true Christian skin must become senstive to sin.the Bible tells us this is more important to God then just simply "belief"
Jerseygirl8999 1 year ago
I don't know what you mean when you said "tolerant"Christians if by tolerant you mean "Christians" who think that everything sinful is okay just because they don't want to come off as being offensive or want to sound politically correct then these are not true Christians. Also I hope you realize what you ask for because Hell is not only a place of torment it is complete separation from the Creator who wraps himself in light. If you wish to be in hell God will give you your desires.
Jerseygirl8999 1 year ago
@Jerseygirl8999 this all sounds like a load of bullshit to me
Nightwithe 1 year ago
Well the Bible would sound stupid to you wouldn't it
1st Corinthians 1:18 "For the message of the Cross is foolishness to those who are perishing but to us who are being saved it is the power of God."
2nd Corinthians 4:3 "& even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing"
1 Corinthians 1:21 "For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not come to know God God was well-pleased through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe."
Jerseygirl8999 1 year ago
@KingUser2008 wrong..new proof otherwise
draconusrex33 2 years ago
No need to prove anything.. the shroud tells all. The Vatican did not allow any scientist to examine the shroud. Worrying that it would prove otherwise. People got to be nuts to believe that Christ was wrapped in it! lol
KingUser2008 2 years ago
@KingUser2008 -Totally retarded and Ignorant statement...and if you refute what i just said, please show some proof for your statement.
Flagrum3 1 year ago
@KingUser2008 -Idiot!
Flagrum3 1 year ago
It is so ridiculous to say that Leonardo made the Shroud. No one has duplicated the creation of an image similar to the Shroud. Leonardo was not god and did not radiate a cloth that originated in the 1st century. I could care less what the liars said in 1988 with there carbon test.
outthr 2 years ago
@outthr carbon test was tainted so the preponderance of evidence says its the real thing
draconusrex33 2 years ago
LMAO!! Oh deary me
SpeciousGwa 2 years ago
"The suggestion that the 1532 Chambery fire changed the date of the cloth is ludicrous. Samples for C-dating are routinely and completely burned to CO2 as part of a well-tested purification procedure. The suggestions that modern biological contaminants were sufficient to modernize the date are also ridiculous. A weight of 20th century carbon equaling nearly two times the weight of the Shroud carbon itself would be required to change a 1st century date to the 14th century." - Dr. Walter McCrone
Atheistx82 2 years ago
@Atheistx82
c-dating thing is wrong, LOL they tested a newly dead bug and c-dayting said that the bug is 3000 years old lol
MoskowFreak1111 1 year ago
@MoskowFreak1111 When did that happen? Try learning a little bit about carbon dating, you don't get multiple independent labs coming back with the same results by accident, and even if you ignore and dismiss carbon dating that does nothing to address the many other problems with the shroud.
Atheistx82 1 year ago
if it jesus what does it prove ?
he died a horrible death ?
loly1969 2 years ago
Like they used carbon dating.... HINT HINT ,THAT TECHNOLOGY IS FALSE GUYS !! ITS THE SAME THING THAT SUPPORTED DARWINISM WHAT CHRISTIANS HATE! WHY WOULD YOU TRUST IT FOR YOUR PRECIOUS CLOTH
FILMS CAN BE FIXED YOU KNOW, LIKE THEY PROVED ILLUMINATI WAS FALSE ON DISCOVERY WHILE IN REAL LIFE THERES SO MUCH EVIDENCE!!
runner784 2 years ago
i believe that the shroud is real, i am muslim , but if the shroud was real, it doesn't disprove islam for the fallowing
-the quran said jesus was never killed by the people, he was raised in the sky
but crucifixion was still present at that time, the shroud to me could be made by any man who had paint or color on him and stamped it on the cloth crucifyed or not, all it is to me is a miracly of any sort what so ever but it does not disprove islam, it's a print of some guy who got killed,
runner784 2 years ago
Just so everybody knows - as days go by, the shroud gets more and more genuine. First, they admitted that the blood is real, not painted, then they admitted that the carbon dating was done of new repairs (one of the most terrible carbon dating blunders in known history), NOW, they've found aramaic writing on the shroud, dated at at least 1800 years old. It gives me such pleasure to wipe the smirk off the faces of you unbelievers.
pbaylis1 2 years ago
you sound too weak, needy and lonely. Of course you need god.
annuitcoeptis2008 2 years ago
it is already confirmed that the man on the shroud is christ.
persico45 2 years ago
thats ridiculous.
I believe that the shroud is genuine, and that its Jesus who is on the shroud, but there is no way to confirm it in absolute certainty.
its like saying that its "confirmed" that I wont win the lottery next wednesday.
it isn't confirmed, just overwhelmingly probable, based on the evidence, and the circumstances.
condorito29 2 years ago
woops...im sorry I meant it was confirmed that the shroud/texture and cloth was 2000 years ago during the time of chirst. I'm not saying it definetly is. sorry for that mistake.
persico45 2 years ago
yea, you are right.
the cloth has been shown to be much older. The decay of the vanillin in it shows that it was much older than the portion tested in C-14.
we dont' know how old though, just that its a lot older than the late middle ages.
condorito29 2 years ago
yes
persico45 2 years ago
Not only to mention that theres recorded history of that cloth being in existence from the 1100s. Yes. There is paintings of making of the cloth with the same herring bone pattern and the 4 holes in the cloth in the same arrangment. If you dont know...Da Vinci was born in 1452. Davinci painted the picture of jesus we recognize now which is the real deception. Also it was privately owned it didnt belong to a church for a millenia and a 1/2 1357 was the first time it was shown publicly. lol
8Thirst 2 years ago
They Proved that the Shroud was indeed 2,000 years old. not from medieval time's.
playerx2006 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
It's ironic that the unbelievers who made this film used people of science who believe the shroud is authentic and carefully edited them. They didn't happen to mention this. They will do anything they can to bring down Christ with their nonsense, Real scientists say it's the true burial cloth of Christ. So get over it- get on your knees and pray!
helenw100 2 years ago 2
Tried to say it was a painting but they couldn't find any paint so that was out. Then tried to say that Da vinci created it as a photo - so lets get this- he invented the concept of photography and then the whole world never elaborated any more on that until they 'RE- dicovered' it 500 years later and were amazed?? Get over it ! Its Jesus, as decribed in the bible Plus Da Vinci was an athiest and he did'nt believe in Christ, plus it DOES date back to Christ. In their ignorance they will perish'
helenw100 2 years ago
Lately, I've debunked ufo videos through psychology. When you apply normal human reactions to an event, then see if they match the video or picture, a new story unfolds. This is a fake. Not only is the hair straight down, but he is hiding his genitalia. A dead body can not bend over and lay down at the same time and would not die hiding his manhood from prying eyes. The psychology is just wrong in this picture.
Nyhee7 2 years ago
What you are saying sounds reasonable but, you are using psychology on a dead person in this case which is differnt from say applying it to living peole seeing a ufo. He didnt chose to be in that position. He was entombed that way. My grandmother died and she had her arms crossed when she was put in her casket. By your interpretation it would imply that she was somehow self concious about her breats. The makers of this film have already made up thier mind, have you? look up the sudarium.
8Thirst 2 years ago
Well, sir, you just put doubt into my sureness. Not bad. I shall reconsider my position. You are quite correct, they could have put his hands over his genitles, though I have never heard of that practice, perhaps, after death, his arms were too stretched to put in any other way. And the stretching would have allowed him to have them reach that far without being bent. Very good, you really made me think about this some more. Thank you.
Nyhee7 2 years ago
I've had to revise my theory. Arms being stretched on the cross could allow for his hands to be positioned over his genitles. Also, they could have put oil and spices in his hair, which would make it look like it was flowing straight down, but in fact was just stiff with oils or beef lard mixed with spices.
Once again, my mind is not fully made up on the matter.
Nyhee7 2 years ago
This video is very biased. The blood on this cloth and the cloth on the sudarium are not paint theyve been identified as blood and are the same persons blood. Davinci was born a little less then 100 years after this cloth was first shown. If it was faked it wasnt him. The people who made this video obviously didnt do thier research on Leo. Im glad your willing to open you mind to the possibility of it being what it might be. I cant say 100% for myself, but its more likely not to be fake.
8Thirst 2 years ago
the maker of this move seems to be convinced that it is fake ... from the out set >
alaya10008 2 years ago
And why does the hair fall straight down?! And why is a corpse bleeding?! Corpses don't bleed, especially down the face when he's supposed to laying down, thats silly. And if it had been wrapped around the body, surely the image would have been sort of bloated. And why is the head on wrong? It looks decapitated and too small for the body.
SpeciousGwa 2 years ago 3
Leonardo had access to blood and bodies...........(he dabbed it on)..the face on the shroud is his own perfect face as in his illustrations and notebooks. The head is superimposed on the negative image.......davinci also experimented with lenses.....the shroud has a negative image.
pseudoslave 2 years ago 2
@SpeciousGwa >As I find myself asking of many of you somewhat illiterates; IF you would take the time or make the effort to educate yourself on the Shroud, by reading proper documents and not trusting the circus media, you would find the answers to all your questions.So please READ!
Flagrum3 1 year ago
@SpeciousGwa -Idiot x2
Flagrum3 1 year ago
Why is the hair the same colour as the skin on the negative image? Surely that would mean both skin and hair was of a very light shade, interestingly enough Leonardo's hair was supposed to have gone white very quickly, hmmm.
SpeciousGwa 2 years ago
Whoa - da vinci was good painting a picture, getting it to turn up so we could see it a a later date. putting pollens on it that correspond to it being the burial cloth of Jesus. and doing it so it would have a 3d image and blood tye and roman coins deciphened on the eyes later!. These athesists even paid someone £1,000000 to prove it fake and gave him a chair in a university if he would say its a fake. Thats because they hate Jesus, but he is watching them an will judge them!
helenw100 2 years ago
the pollens could have been contamination from other holy relics that did come from Jerusalem. Sadly, I think this shroud is a fake.
Nyhee7 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Currently is a work of art, of the Shroud of Turin, in german ebay, in full size.
The auction ends on the 31st of May 09.
Ebay item number (Germany): 140321366168
Very Nice!!!
jesusstarlight77 2 years ago
People can worship them! They have every right! the church paid the Artisans of the time small fortunes to spread the word since back in those days most people could not read or write!
latinogott 2 years ago
But Leonardo was already playing with " Foto Oscura" Dark Photography! Back in the days! Including the Germans called him a demon because he was fascinated with mirrors. They acussed Leonardo of practicing " The Dark Arts"
He was very secretative!
latinogott 2 years ago 2
I admired the people from the medieval ages who have a strong faith in the shroud even though they look at it in positive image (ghostly image) how much more when they will see it in negative image.
skymilesss 2 years ago
And again, as far as free will, you miss the point.
God created us with the ability to choose sin, but it is only the ACT of choosing sin which IS sin.
Is the ability to murder the same thing as murdering someone?
I thought not.
condorito29 2 years ago
God must be getting a good laugh out of this. People have gone to the absurd in order to declare this thing a fake. Sure a guy back in the middle ages is going to produce a 3d picture that can only be seen by using a photographic plate. I don't really care if this is or isn't the "shroud." What is important is that people go nuts trying to disprove it, the harder they try the more foolish they seem be be. People are trying real hard to disprove God's existence. They will never accomplish it!
gfreed100 2 years ago
wow, you're a cunt. It isn't the shroud, it's been dated quite well. People go nuts because it's still a piece of history worthy of origin study, and you haven't quite proved any god's existence let alone your favorite one. Came up with any proper rebuttal to the problem of evil, the eternal things which also were created, the old testaments oopsies, the specter of philosophical and scientific failures throughout all of a millenia old tribal myth that has no value but to the disheartened?
Spalg 2 years ago
the carbon dating on the shroud was proven by Thermochemica Acta and Los Alamos Labs to have been INVALID. Do your homework.
The "problem of evil" was dealt with thousands of years ago. People keep hashing it up because it is very difficult to deal with personally. Intellectually, however, it has been dealt with.
When you deal with it personally, it is all too human to say things like "My God, My God, why have you abandoned me?"
I understand why you have issues with evil. We all do.
condorito29 2 years ago
Intellectually, the "problem of evil" is explained as a necessary side-effect of God having created beings with free will.
Neither Satan nor the angels are rocks.
Neither are we.
God created all beings with the ability to NOT choose him, becuase it MUST be so in order to create them FREE.
Only those who choose evil, however, are responsible for it.
After all, we are ALL capable of murder, but only those who actually kill someone are guilty of it.
condorito29 2 years ago
God is innocent of our sins, even though the ability to be sinful is something God created.
The ability to be sinful is merely an expression of our freedom, but the ACT of being sinful IS sin.
As far as old testament "oopsies", only a child or a willing simpleton would expect that a book written by people would be perfect.
The Gospels are described as books "According to" Matthew, Luke, etc., because it acknowledges the falibility of man.
We are hearing human testimony, like in court.
condorito29 2 years ago
Human fallibility is a part of religious tradition because we are not perfect.
In fact, Jesus' relationship to the Jewish tradition acknowledges this fact.
Many Jews expected an earthly king, a messiah who would overthrow the roman empire and be a warlike leader.
This was based in large part on the warlike passages of the Old Testament.
Yet Jesus was NOT a political messiah.
He is a divine king, of a divine, not earthly kingdom. His Law is a trancendant one.
condorito29 2 years ago
(oops...transcendant).
Jesus specifically repudiates the Jewish idea of a political messiah, and thus specifically repudiates the common interpretation of the warlike passages of the OT.
He says that those who "live" by the sword, die by it, because we live by the Word of God.
We may survive by the sword, but we can only truly "live" through God.
We are entitled to fight for survival, establish gov't's with armies, and tax ourselves in order to do this ("render unto caesar").....
condorito29 2 years ago
(cont'd)....But we can to TRULY "live" we must choose God, not the sword.
Hence, Religious warfare is a no-no.
It was NEVER acceptable in God's eyes, and the OT merely confuses the right of Israel to survive as a nation with the sword, with the divine law of God.
These are moral confusions Jesus clears up. Likewise, scientific confusions evident in Genesis, are also for us to "clear up". Like Jesus, we must separate mistaken assumptions of the past, with the Divine Word.
condorito29 2 years ago
So, Old Testament "oopsies", whether moral or scientific, have been either already dealt with in Christianity, or can be dealt with by modern christians, precisely BECAUSE our tradition depends in large part on Christ HIMSELF separating what was false and true in the Old Testament.
In short, only Christ is God, and he specifically acknowledged the fallibility of his own religious tradition.
We are not God, but we must always attempt to do the same with the ideas we inherit..
condorito29 2 years ago
The Judeo/Christian tradition isn't just a collection sayings and books, but an actual story.
When we intuitively feel that having stolen something from our neighbor is wrong, or that calling your mother on Mother's day is Good, we hear the silent voice of God in our hearts.
This voice speaks to ALL mankind in ALL ages, even cavemen.
The Judeo/Christian tradition is the TRUTH of this reality, being expressed in human culture and in human history.
condorito29 2 years ago
Those who follow this silent voice, who prize it over anything else in their lives, are those who follow God. They are saved by Jesus (who is the "Way", "Truth", and "Life" they have been unknowingly following) at the end of time.
The Old Testament is the story of mankind's growing understanding of this reality. The Jews built upon their inheritance, flawed though it may have been.
When history reaches a certain point; BAM! --The Messiah shows, who tells us about God, and who IS God.
condorito29 2 years ago
He fulfills all that was Good and True in the Jewish tradition, and declares false all that wasn't .
He comes back from the dead not because he had nothing better to do that Sunday morning, but because he IS God, and is the Truth of God expressed on earth.
God is Life, and the Truth of this Life is best expressed in Jesus' resurrection.
Moreover, by rising from the dead, Jesus becomes our road back to the unadulterated presence of the almighty.
He is our living bridge to heaven.
condorito29 2 years ago
Jesus' followers are all capable of making mistakes. The Gospels wouldn't be titled "according to" if regular human beings were perfect. We aren't.
Nevertheless, History has been impregnated with the presence of the divine.
If you stop listening to idiotic and utterly pathetic tales of how Leonardo Da Vinci pulled the Shroud out of his ass, and actually OPEN YOUR EYES to what is in front of you, you might actually see the peaceful face of God, in whose image we are made.
condorito29 2 years ago
then you claim god made mistakes in the old, and jesus explicitly supports the old testament, the guy was a jew. No, the problem of evil hasn't been dealt with. You don't have an omnipotent omnibenevolent being who controls a part labeled by himself as evil, unless he keeps it that way.You haven't read the bible if you don't think religious war is acceptable in God's eyes. You're supposed to kill me, and where are the Amalakites, by the way?
Spalg 2 years ago
No, "god" did not make mistakes in the Old Testament. The Jews were mistaken.
The neighbors of the Jews were nasty sorts, burning babies and what not.
Sure, the OT has bits saying that God endorsed war, and took part in it, but it was a mistaken understanding.
Man is entitled to his self defense, and there is such a thing as "just" war, but these are things properly done in man's name, not in God's.
Jesus clears things up.
condorito29 2 years ago
"Give unto Caesar what is Caesar's, and to God what is God's"
Jesus was NOT a political messiah and he specifically repudiates the notion of a God who expresses himself through war.
Yes, Jesus was a Jew, but he was the Son of God, and as such, he was in a position to tell the Jews where they were mistaken.
Being human beings, it was inevitable that they WOULD be mistaken in some ways.
Jesus fulfills the Truth of the Jewish tradition, and dispells the lies and misunderstandings.
condorito29 2 years ago
You might say that a "just" war not being divine in at least SOME way is a contradiction in terms. After all, how could it be "Just" if it did not participate in some way with a divine sense of Justice?
But the answer lies in the fact that we do not define God in this world. God's will does not depend on our fists or armies.
We define ourselves.
A man is "good" only insofar as he chooses God , but in the end, only God is Good with a capital "G".
condorito29 2 years ago
A man is "good" only when "good" is used as an ADJECTIVE. Man himself is not, and cannot BE Good.
Only God is "Good" as a NOUN.
Likewise, man can choose to be Just (as an adjective) and express that through a "Just" war, but only GOD actually IS justice.
The Old Testament misses the point because the distinction is subtle.
Our actions define ourselves, not God.
They are "good" and "just" only insofar as they are adjectives.
Making them Nouns places us where God should be.
condorito29 2 years ago
amen.
the more you try to pretend that two and two do NOT make four, the more foolish you BECOME, let alone look.
condorito29 2 years ago
3.15 = blindly following.
mafiamob2005 2 years ago
There are a lot of shrouds out there.Who said that THIS shroud was the presented in 1357?
gotohellfast 2 years ago
If lenardo Da vinci did this then he would have the hand pericinigs on the palm of the hand instead of the wrist to have people believe it. The shroud is not a hoax because of this!
redneckmarine87 2 years ago
Wrong!
Leonardo had a deep understanding of the human body.If anyone could know the spot a nail would fit,he is the ONE.
gotohellfast 2 years ago
well if he had such a thorough knowledge of it, why didn't he correct his peers on their MISGUIDED representations of Jesus in the crucifixion?
Let me guess, this is more knowledge that leonardo has, which he doesn't share with anyone, while hoping that it will be discovered in the future so that he can be vindicated. Isn't that what you dumb asses say about photography?
He"invented" it but told no one?
you guys are grasping at a flaky-ass leonardo did it bullshit story.
P-A-T-H-E-T-I-C
condorito29 2 years ago
but you only believe this steaming bullshit because you WANT to, and I'm not going to try to argue your own WILLFUL b.s. out of your own noggin.
Knock yourself out with your own pathetic denials, and may leonardo bless you.
condorito29 2 years ago
probably best not to.
both the jews and the muslims would rather see it destroyed, due to its massive implications.
If I had to bet on which group would try to destroy the shroud first, Id say......
Well, lets just say it rhymes with Kuslims.
condorito29 2 years ago