Pregnancy on TV is not interesting and it derails the plot-lines. It puts our favorite females out of action and turns them into a burden on the rest of the cast. If I like a female character I don't want to see her turn into an incubator or having to worry about some stupid kid, I want to see her out there killing some aliens, zombies or werewolves(I like violence). Also I want to add pregnancy jokes are not funny anymore they have been done to death.
This issue is not limited to Sci-Fi. I have yet to see ANY TV show or film that shows a birth that occurs without some form of disfunction that requires input from a (usually male) doctor who saves the woman from her body's failure to "perform".
@HannahBadger THIS. THIS SO VERY MUCH. Why are men always portrayed as the Heroes of Childbirth? It's as if women's bodies have ABSOLUTELY NO IDEA how to deliver a baby naturally, so The Man must intervene and show them what to do! (I LOVE--sarcasm--when male doctors TELL women when to push on TV shows. ANY woman will tell you that when the time for pushing arrives, SHE is the first to know, not the other way around!)
On the subject of the virgin birth, I would google the amazing "Ain't I a Woman?" speech by Sojourner Truth, which makes me think that, as Phyllis Trible argues about Genesis, the virgin birth was also intended to involve a balanced role of the sexes: "And how came Jesus into the world? Through God who created him and the woman who bore him. Man, where was your part?"
While the rape aspect is genuinely a grievance, i'd say that if it wasn't so prevalent, playing off of anxieties over childbirth could be legitimate horror grounds. I know plenty of girls who are terrified of childbirth. Real-world fears are the heart of horror in speculative fiction, so it SHOULD - if tastefully done - be fair game. The problem is doing it tastefully.
Is it fair to lump all Sci-Fi TV pregnancies into one category? I'm familiar with maybe half the examples you cite, and while several of them do seem to fit the "overnight mystical pregnancy that is forgotten about in the next episode" trope, there were a few that seemed a little different.
I'm thinking of the ones with longer pregnancy arcs resulting from an actress being pregnant (e.g. Claudia Black/Vala) I'm not saying these aren't necessarily sexist, but they seem like a different trope.
Oh my goodness, when I saw the Xena photograph, such nostalgia. ^_^...I would love to see a review and/or written analysis of what you think of the show, characters, and their feminist qualities or perhaps lack thereof.
hi feminist frequency! I love your blogs and look forward to seeing them, however this video concerns me a little. I understand your point but I feel that your reaction to the virgin mary and the birth of jesus concerning and a little insulting. It makes me feel that women cant be spritual and fight for equal rights or that christian women can't take the pinical of christianity seriously because they think Marry was raped and is in the same catagory as the others, which it's not. thanks michelle
This is so true. The mystical pregnancy thing IS rape, and yet the characters always seem to get over it quickly. Such bullshit. I for one will never use this in my writing, at least not without exploring the lingering effects of the trauma.
I'm seeing a lot of people in the comments section justifying some uses this trope by saying "they had to write it because the actress became pregnant."
Really? When an actress becomes pregnant, they automatically have to write a disgusting, disturbing, nightmarish, rape-like supernatural/sci-fi inception and grizzly birth scene that will no doubt terrify female viewers regarding pregnancy?
I didn't know that was the only way to explain away a baby bump on television!
@Give1Take2 There are all sorts of ways to "explain" a baby bump on television--if you're working on a soap opera. The majority of the shows addressed in this segment are action/adventure shows, however, and often the genre they cross with is horror. Not everything you see in a horror tv show or in a horror movie will be pleasant and peachy keen. Horror as a genre exists to express and explore fear and anxiety--and after having had two children myself, I understand these fears very well.
I don't think the mystic pregnancy has so much to do with regular pregnancy, but rather a theme of invasion or corruption. the thought of that special place shared between a yet-to-be-mother and her unborn child being invaded by a sinister demon or emotionless alien is enough to make anyone squirm.
You say that every existing use of this plot is insulting to women.
But what about those women who have experienced violent and unwanted pregnancies? Does it not dishonor them for you to take a story that portrays the suffering, confusion, and courage of a woman faced with an unwanted pregnancy, and to erase it?
@klutterkicker These stories are not adept at adequately dealing with the topic, as the consequences of the pregnancy, as was mentioned in the video, are easily glossed over and forgotten, without long-term ramifications. A true pregnancy of this type, no matter the duration, would have great effects and severe emotional trauma. Instead, the filmmakers focus merely on the biological process, distorting it.
Not very important but that's not what the immaculate conception is. The immaculate conception was Mary who was born without the stain of original sin and therefore I guess was an appropriate vessel for the child of God. You're thinking of the virgin birth.
I wonder if Rosemary's Baby--which is OBVIOUSLY guilty of subscribing to this trope--was trying to show that the denial of agency to the wife was a nightmare, and the current sociological and ideological paradigms of the time were, in fact, horrifying. Rosemary's husband refused to include her in any decisions about their family and trapped her in the house. That movie always seemed to me an indictment against that attitude, saying women were victims in that scheme and portraying how awful it is
@gengigloves Agreed. Ira Levin wrote quite effectively from the female viewpoint in horrific situations, and he was aware of feminist issues and willing to address them, which was pretty progressive for the time. He's also the author of The Stepford Wives, which helps to put things in context.
@kwaal A lot of the pregnancy storylines are because the actor got pregnant but I hardly accept that as an excuse for such invasive, violating and cliche story arcs.
@feministfrequency No offense, but I think your dismissal of the issues of the REAL women who work in the entertainment industry are short-sighted and selfish. Writers often have to struggle to incorporate a pregnant body into a story-line when the CHARACTER (as distinct from the actress) has no legitimate reason to desire a pregnancy, no romantic or personal relationship to cause one, and no reason to transform into the "mommy" role.
@ArinnDembo It's shortsighted to think that the writers of Hollywood could be a little more creative in covering up a pregnancy then violating, raping and otherwise torturing their female characters!?
@feministfrequency I think it's very, very easy to demand that the faceless foe you call "Hollywood writers" be "more creative" when you spend no time whatsoever thinking about what their jobs entail and what problems they are facing on the ground. They do not get to exert dictatorial control over the bodies and personal lives of the women on the set. They end up having to write around a nasty biological reality which completely violates the show's continuity and the character's planned arc.
@feministfrequency If your dictate was followed, in other words, women would be fired from a series Every. Single. Time. That they got pregnant in real life. It would be yet another reason to punish REAL women in REAL life who are trying to make a living. Yet another reason to have NO female characters on a show, or to subject actresses to brutal control of their personal lives. Yet another reason for us to have less work, and be less represented in all media. Personally, I'll take the trope.
@ArinnDembo Do you have an inability to understand what creative means, it does not mean firing women or not employing women because they could become pregnant, it means that they can work around the physicality of pregnancy in creative ways. They can float through space, create amazing special effects, invent new military weapons and they can't come up with a way to deal with a pregnant woman? Ya right! it's about priorities.
@feministfrequency Actually, they do come up with a way to deal with a pregnant woman. What they do is write around her and the pregnancy in a way that does NOT screw up the entire show and leave the audience wanting more soap opera crap about "So-and-So's love child". See, writing a genuinely planned and wanted pregnancy into a character's life is every bit as huge an event as it is in a real woman's life. Children are baggage that not every character and every show can afford to carry.
Excellent as always! This one always bugs me to no end when it emerges from the sludge. Thinking deeply about these situations, it is preeeetty messed up on multiple levels...
This video will be interesting viewing once whichever part of Breaking Dawn that includes Bella's horrific vampire torture birth comes to theaters. What with all the talk of demon spawn and rapidly aging children, this trope hits close to home for the finale of the Twilight Saga.
There's....a lot of stuff to unpack in this. Especially within science fiction. It's super old too, sex and pregnancy ARE scary, even if they're natural, and people have been coming up with narratives to deal with that for a long time. Especially people who have never been, or can't get, pregnant. This issue is sooo much bigger than modern feminism. We spent most of our history with no idea how the body worked and so we made up stories, and those stories haven't really gone away.
I know this has probably been covered, but the Virgin Birth is not the "original" one, just the most well known. Women have been reduced to baby houses since the beginning of time (probably).
This is the trope that is often the most disturbing. You goofed on "immaculate conception"--that doesn't refer to virgin birth, it refers to the idea that Mary was born without sin even though she was conceived in the normal way. It's a very Catholic concept that I don't think Protestants invoke. The virgin birth concept was found in Assyria and in Buddhism prior to Christianity, while the messiah concept became part of Judaism when it was exposed to Zoroastrianism.
And the lack of development of the "long term emotional ramifications" in bad tv shows applies to ANY truamatic events, not JUST pregnancy. That's a bigger problem with writers than just pregnancy.
I also think the video oversimplifies things. I haven't seen the other shows but I feel like it takes the pregnancies in BSG and the X-files out of context. The invasive and uncontrollable nature of those pregnancies are meant to show the horror of the enemies the characters are faced with. They also fit with the themes of the show and the development of the characters. To lump them with other shows where pregnancies are poorly done is overgeneralizing.
Just curious about your opinions on Children of Men? In the movie, they quickly mention that Kee had consensual sex, I think, but the guy ins't important as far as moving the plot along. I did find it interesting that neither women nor men were condemned as the culprit, nor technology or pollution for that matter, it just was.
Sidenote: What did you think of Kiff's pregnancy plotline on Futurama?
I have to say that the x-files was my first experience with this, but I thought they handled it well, with a very human reaction every time. I loved that show and Scully was the main character, seriously. Mulder was a whiny child, even though he was center, he got abducted and then it was really Scully's show.
It also was a mystery what happened to her, it was the government too, and it dealt with a lot of violence against women too. If anyone handled this trope inside their genre well, x-files
"Pregnancy is not a here one week gone the next kind of a thing"
This is the thing that annoys me. That everything always happens quickly, with no lasting effect on the woman.
One example of pregnancy in tv that I liked was on a show called Psych. The (female) police chief is pregnant, but it's not even some plot point. It's just the way she is for about a season until the actor (and thus also the character) had her baby. It was pregnancy treated like a normal, natural thing.
A question about Starbuck, BSG, and Pregnancy. How does this fit in with the throw away episodes of other shows? The drive for Cylons to have a Hybrid between Humans and Cylons is a major plot point in the show. This was not a throw away moment. On Caprica they were kidnapping women to make pregnant, Boomer and Helo had a child together. Hera might not be a fully formed character, but she is very important to the plot. Where is the line between troope and important plot theme?
@earthdog7900 I really liked Moya's character and I thought her pregnancy was an interested story arc, it didn't feel contrived and forced and I mean, how many times have you seen a spaceship have a baby!?
This shit might as well be called magical rape because in a lot of cases, that's what it is but since its sci-fi, it doesn't count...despite the fact that its still basically rape but with some stupid made up shit shoved in to make people feel less guilty. Yeah, women are the holders of life, whatever excuse you want to put in but THAT does not excuse that so many examples have to show women SUFFERING and being tortured. If pregnancy is so pure and vital, why is it always demonized like this?
God pregnant women already have to deal with rude people with out these stupid plot lines. Seriously, you get pregnant and suddenly you privacy goes right out the window. Complete strange will come up and touch your belly! And people make so many comments about your weight and are so opinionated about the way you give birth and whether or not you will breast feed. How about making an episode that deals with those issues instead of this alien crap.
I hate this trope, both for idealogical reasons and because I just never enjoy it. It was one reason that I was edgy when Amy got "is she, isn't she" pregnant. I'm still not sure how I feel about how it was handled. I think that I will need to see how the second half of the season goes.
In the case of Troi in Star Trek, the lack of development is a case of the infamous "reset button" where everything "resets" at the end of the episode, before Babylon 5 made story arcs the norm in TV shows.
In alot of cases, writers use the mystical pregnancy to creep out viewers as "Nightmare Fuel", but its become so absurdly overused that it has lost any real impact to shock and frighten. Like most nightmare fuel it preys on people's subconcscious and conscious fears.
An absolutely amazing analysis of an infuriating and dominate trope in Hollywood, as always. While watching this I was also thinking about the final book in the Twilight Saga and how pregnancy, which is already something strange and foreign to younger teenagers who might read the books, is turned into the scene from Alien when the newborn extraterrestrial bursts out of Officer Kane's stomach!
I also loved your reference, whether intentional or not, to The Handmaid's Tale at the end!!
I myself am a Christian, so while I don't agree that Mary's Immaculate Conception was forced upon or made up like anything in a Sci-fi (though I'll probably get flak just for saying that much) I agree with everything else that you just said.
I'm not a mother and I don't exactly plan on becoming one, (ever) but pregnancy shouldn't be treated as nightmare fuel. (Even if it's become nightmare fuel at this point) It should be treated like the special, beautiful thing that it really is!
SPOILER ALERT. I don't now if it's been shown in the U.S.A. yet but this trope was used in the most recent series of Dr Who and it made me so angry! They stuck the Dr's assistant (who until that point was a fairly plausible character) in a spaceship and had her impregnated and helplessly weeping, only for her baby to later dissolve into a pile of sludge. It pretty much turned my stomach. I feel like the show disrespected both the character and motherhood in general. ugh.
Ugh- Torchwood. Let's just take everything about Doctor Who apart from the good stuff, make it post-watershed and write the scripts while dunk out of our minds. Interesting video by the way, what are your thoughts on Amy's pregnancy in the actual Doctor Who program? Not a "mystical" pregnancy since it was good ol' fashioned reproduction, but it had some pretty terrifying stuff surrounding it.
if you are interested in Japanese animation, I would recommend you to watch MORIBITO: Guardian of the Spirit. It is about Mystical Pregnancy of a teenage boy which might be interesting for you.
I think it's worth noting that some of these storylines were written in because the actresses got pregnant (this was the case for Gillian Anderson and Charisma Carpenter the second time around), but I suppose that doesn't mean they couldn't've treated the subject in a better fashion. Btw, the "Immaculate Conception" refers to Mary supposedly being born without original sin -- not her mystical pregnancy.
@bmh4d0k3n I often wonder if they could handle an actresses pregnancy differently. Like hide it. When she's in the second or third triamester, have episodes where all the characters have to wear big clothes for whatever reason. Or use some episodes to focus on some minor characters to give them some development. Or even a "what if" episode that features the character pregnant.
@Kaldary Dude you obviously haven't been paying attention cause shows often do this when they don't want a character to randomly become pregnant. Way back when on the Cosby's Claire would walk around with bags in front of her belly or be shot mid-bust. More recently they had Mariska Hagerity in all black on SVU, Gina Bellman on Leverage, Tiffany Amber Theissan on White Collar, etc.
Poor Troi. When something had to happen to a woman, it had to happen to her. She was even psychically raped for the second time in Nemesis. It's sad because the show was suppose to be progressive.
Thanks for the video! I knew the second I saw the title that Scully from X-Files would be included. Gillian Anderson was indeed pregnant in real life and Chris Carter (screenwriter) had to fit that into the story for the next few months. And while her pregnancy wasn't actually an "alien rape" sort of thing, it still seemed a little cliche to me. Thanks again for the video! :)
I'm amused you didn't include Twilight, which will be the most popular and shameless of this trope. I haven't read the book, but I hear there was some bone-breaking and blood spouting. Oh, and a freak of nature adult-baby who gets "imprinted" upon by a pervy fully formed adult.
I thought of the sims 2 'alien pregnancy' feature, but that isnt quite the same since men can get pregnant too (which is how the whole concept was introduced) and the sims is an entire game fabricated by tropes, so bringing it up wouldn't really go anywhere.
There is a short film called Silver Sling on the channell IndiesLab that gives a great sci-fi pregnancy story with a lot of emotional impact. I recommend it.
This video was kind of sad for me, because I LOVE almost every show you featured clips from, but I guess it just proves how pervasive and overused the trope is (even back to mythology-there are so many ancient gods who were born through mystical pregnancy!)
Also, kudos for that brief clip of the 1990 version of The Handmaid's Tale! One of my favorite books ever and a fairly faithful adaptation.
Isn't the point of many of these mystical pregnancies that a character the viewer cares about has been violated?
Sure it's a cheap and worn out storyline, but maybe it plays just as much to our social protective nature as to a desire by male script writers to violate.
The flip side from a male perspective is the xenophobic nature of these pregnancies, the concept that for males within a social group a female becoming pregnant to an 'outsider' would be a threat to their genetic dominance.
Reproductive anxiety is real, pregnancy is risky. It makes sense that these issues would manifest in scifi/ horror. Horror exploits our fears and blows them out of proportion to make reality easier to deal with. Why is your feminist perspective that women should be dealt with, in stories, with delicacy and respect all of the time? I'm all for reproductive rights in real life, but writers own their characters, I say they have the right to do with them as they wish.
@MiyakaSpeaks I don't think anybody is seriously debating a person's *right* to write characters - it seems like a pointless thing to say when it is countering a non-argument. No, the points are 1) this is a reoccurring theme 2)limited specifically to women (I imagine there are some male preggo exceptions, although the entire process is coded as female, biologically speaking). Given that I can't think of a "reproductive anxiety" trope for men (that does not involve misogyny) it is imbalanced.
@MiyakaSpeaks Also, at no point is it suggested that female characters must be "dealt" with with "delicacy and respect" - I would be interested to know the words which indicated this as being the case explicitly to you. It seems to me that ff is, feminism aside, bringing up a tired, tired trope which is overdone and certainly does not respect an intelligent audience never mind its characters.
One congressman was quoted as saying 90% of all planned parenthood activities are abortions. When he was called out on the fact that this practise probably accounts for only <10% of their activities he said "It was not intended to be a factual statement."
Cordelia was technically three times. She had anothe rbaby inserted into the back of her head manifesting as a third eye. Not quite the same thing but still interesting to note (the original victim in this same case was also a young girl.) Angel is actually notorious for this as there are multiple mystical pregnancies throughout the show's 5 seasons.
I can never watch TV episodes with any type of pregnancy. Ever since I was a kid, the idea of being pregnant freaked me out to no end. I went to a Christian school K-8th grade. I distinctly remember a bible lesson in 6th grade, where my teacher had me read a passage out loud, then explain that it meant that God made birth painful to punish women for Eve eating the fruit of knowledge. I'm 27, have my own perception of the world, and still I think I never got over that.
What's this about criminalizing miscarriages? I haven't heard of this - how can they do that? Can someone from the United States please explain? What's going on down there?
I think that, while this trope is certainly a violation of a woman's body, it's used so much precisely because it is a traumatic event for anyone to witness. All those women getting impregnated and screaming and writhing in pain is a surefire (if cheap) way to induce a feeling of sympathy or drama from viewers. Bad and chauvinistic writing is what makes this trope offensive. If it was handled properly, it would be a good source of humanization, vulnerability and drama, if not even tragedy.
1.ANITA! I LOVE LOVE LOVE! the connection to religion: the virgin mary and the real world' attack on women's reproductive rights from the religious right!!! its BRILLIANT!
2. at first i didnt agree with you because i am an die hard XENA FAN and i was thinking that pregnancy gave female heroes a warrior motherhood character (btw xenas child was technically a LESBIAN BIRTH) BUT i do see your point with the scifi examples because its making womens biology a source of fear and vulnerability right?
Is the immaculate conception really the original? Wasn't virgin birth around long before that? I can't think of examples, but I'm almost certain that it didn't first come up with Jesus. (I mean logically it just makes sense, considering how every culture considers a woman to be soiled if she's not a virgin, therefore, important figures should be born of a "pure" woman, so one would expect a lot of virgin birth mythologies to pop up everywhere.)
The immaculate conception refers to an entirely different event: that is, that the Blessed Mother was entirely preserved from original sin from the moment of her conception. This belief is accepted by Catholics and no one else.
There have been plenty of -mystical- births throughout history, but the amount of virgin births is much more limited. I believe its true of the mothers of the avatars of Krishna though.
All Christians call themselves servants of God. You still have free will: when she said "be it done unto me" she gave her consent to share her life with the God the Son.
I don't mind the virgin birth being included (though its NOT the immaculate conception), because it is mystical and a pregnancy. But its a misrepresentation of all Christian understanding about the Blessed Mother to say she was in any way unwilling or that the Holy Spirit would have come upon her unwillingly.
It doesn't just happen in christianity, it happens in so many other religions. I was astonished to find how many times this happens in Greek mythology. One of the most celebrated mythological figures, Zeus, has done this several times.
I was about to say this, but it seems that everyone else has realized it too. It's really just a form of rape, but the writers thought it'd be okay to put on TV, because it isn't "accttuuaalllyyyyy" rape (it is.) Of all the trope videos you've done, I'd have to say that this is the trope that bothers me the most.
I love Torchwood and I'm really disappointed to see they used this trope and gave Gwen an alien pregnancy. (I haven't gotten that far into the show yet.) Also, I know Amy's pregnancy on Doctor Who sort of falls into this category, but I think DW is also one of the few shows that has really shown the emotional side effects of this. Amy, Rory, and even the Doctor have all been greatly affected and the show doesn't just brush it off.
Does the Tamara Johansen pregnancy arc in Stargate Universe count as a Mystical Pregnancy that degrades women? I feel like its an example within the very genre thats being discussed here that treats the topic respectfully. Thoughts?
Awesome video! I would be happy if I never saw a pregnancy in a sci fi/fantasy series ever again, honestly, mystical or not. All too often the "having a baby" is just jumping the shark, and that's if it's a regular pregnancy. Mystical ones are like "oh well turns out MAGIC and you're not pregnant any more, lol, let's just pretend this never happened!" You don't just FORGET that sort of thing, and the way that pregnancy is treated as no big deal is just abominable.
I think it should depend on HOW the pregnancy is used. As much as I think Rosemarie's baby is over-rated, it IS a horror film after all. The pregnancy isn't meant to be roses and sunshine because the horror comes from the twist ending of the pregnancy. On the other end of the scale, in the most recent series of Dr.Who, Amy Pond gets pregnant with a baby central to the plotline, But it's taken very seriously and seen as a tender emotional moment when the baby is conceived and the twist revealed.
@Nightmare060 Really? I think DW has handled the whole thing awfully - I mean, for the most part Amy was not even aware of her pregnancy, she was too busy being held captive by some ubervillian waiting to harvest her child whilst she carried on obliviously, thereby FORCING her to have the baby by concealing her own pregnancy from her until the last second! Creepy in the context of her previously being relieved at not being pregnant TWICE (in the dream episode, and as flesh!Amy).
I'm not so sure Farscape belongs in that category as her pregnancy was a long term storyline and she was not forcibly impregnated or mysteriously so. Her pregnancy was used against her, yes, but that child was her lover's child. The show treated it realistically too, she didn't just shake it all off by the next episode. I can't say I really agree with the whole of this trophe but I see your point of view on it. Pregnancy is creepy to a lot of women too, so it makes for good horror ;)
Here's why you SHOULDN'T have brought up the Virgin Mary/Immaculate Conception: In 99.9% of "mystical pregnancy" stories -- even going back to ancient myths -- the "mystical pregnancy" was brought on by rape. Whether it's a mortal woman being ravished by Zeus in Greek mythology or an "alien abduction" in a sci-fi series, the encounters are almost never consensual and the pregnancies are made all the more shocking and disturbing an experience because of it. Mary CONSENTING to have God's child as
All of Luke1:26-37 is her being TOLD that she will conceive. There was no "Will you bare the lords kid Jesus?" No, that never happened. Luke1:37 states it plainly enough "For no word from God will ever fail.”
She was made for that one purpose. She said I am a servant, a slave, a hand maid, or a bondmaid. She stated this that she is a subservient being who had not control of the situation. That is not consent and don't pretend that it is.
@GeishaShattori Are you saying that the women mentioned here and other stories that are impregnated are made pregnant through sexual assault (as in, forced vaginal penetration -- sorry for the description, but trying to be specific!)? I'm not familiar with all the ones mentioned here, but I know that some are not brought on by an act of rape. Many of the women are artificially inseminated in some way. Now that, I believe, would be reproductive rape. If that's what you meant, excuse my comment.
One bit of (Star Trek nerd) trivia about "The Child" that, while not excusing it, may explain why that episode is so exceptionally bad. That episode was produced during a writers' strike and the script was one they salvaged from the proposed, but never produced, Star Trek 2 TV series from the early/mid 70s, so that script was probably 10+ years old already when it got produced (and none of those Star Trek 2 scripts were any good either).
I really enjoyed this video. My one issue was your mention of Mary + Jesus as the first immaculate conception myth. This myth did not start there; it's been around for a looong time in all sorts of mythologies/religions.
The truth is, Mystical Pregnancy shouldn't just be happening to woman. I mean, if you're gonna get someone pregnant, wouldn't it be interesting for an alien race to use a man? I think too often Aliens are humanized to just looking a little different, when in reality there is a whole range of possibilities when it comes to alien biology and how it contrasts to human biology. I mean, if we're going to violate characters we might as well make it equal opportunity.
I don't know if anyone else brought this up (too many comments!), but the story of Mary's virgin birth isn't the first Mystical Pregnancy. Isis conceived the child Horus while her husband Osiris was dead (his weenie was eaten by a fish, so she made him a gold one and used that). I guess that doesn't entirely apply because it was voluntary. But unless that golden dildo had golden god-sperm, it's still a magical pregnancy.
it's absolutely unnerving that they are terrorizing the child bearing and birth giving experience, specially without making sure to continue the plot dealing with the emotional aspects resulting from the trauma. great as always! never mind upsetting comments, everything is criticable if done in such a good way as yours!
My first thought was of women in sci-fi who were pregnant, but that pregnancy didn't fit this trope. The only one I feel certain of is Major Kira Nerys from ST: Deep Space Nine. While she is not pregnant with her own child, but with the child of Miles and Keiko, it is a several episode plot which explores what it means to be a parent, a mother, and someone who is producing life. This time, at least, it is more than a trope.
@beansidhebaby You have to be able to prove that nothing you did caused the miscarriage. (Forget the fact that most doctors don't KNOW what certainly will or won't cause one.) Basically, a miscarriage is assumed to be an illegally performed abortion unless proven otherwise. Women in those states are now Guilty until proven Innocent.
I didn't realize this trope was so widespread, but now that I think about it it does seem true. I'd add that when pregnancies are dealt without alien abductions etc., it seems they're often either in a casual 20 second montage, or the hormonal fluctuations are overemphasized to strengthen the sexist notion that women are chemically imbalanced weirdoes ("Morning Sickness", "Screaming Birth", "Wacky Cravings" etc.).
Btw, are you planning on making a video about the trope "Menstrual Menace"?
I noticed you didn't mention Bella's pregnancy with a vampire child that rips its way out of her stomach and then rapidly ages until adolescence in Breaking Dawn. That's bad enough without thinking about how when the baby was conceived it was essentially the roughest sex ever and when she woke up she had bruises all over her body and the bed was broken.
thanks so much for your videos! they opened up a whole new perspective on pop culture for me... I just wanted to point out that the whole 'pregnancy-by-alien' thing is not something which comes only out of fantasy or religion. Rape is recognized as a form of genocide and was/ is pretty common in the real world too...While I understand your criticism very well, I guess one could use this trope to expound the problems of that...or would that be just as wrong?
It should be pointed out, some of the pictures you used are taken from cases where a woman was pregnant on the show through, ahem, more traditional means and the producers didn't try to hide it by have them carry a folder in front of them or sit behind a desk the entire time. Namely Aeryn and Teyla. Though they're from the vid it seems.
Mostly, though, I tend to agree with you on the trope. Way too often, with so little regard for the women involved.
@feministfrequency Well, no. But in the case of Teyla and Aeryn their pregnancies didn't originate in being violated. Crap happened to them after but that wasn't a 'outsiders force you to be pregnant' type thing. And they're both shown in this vid. I just think we should keep the 'crap happens to women, sometimes including pregnant women' from this trope.
This is so well done - thank you for addressing it! I, too, immediately thought of Amy Pond on Doctor Who. While it is somewhat different circumstances - her baby is not truly alien, after all, and she got pregnant the usual way - it was still a very disturbing plotline and not just because it turned her character into nothing more than biology, though the end that is what bugs me more than anything else about pregnancy in fiction: it often makes the women only as important as their biology.
Cordelia from Angel was actually impregnanted 3 times. Twice in the womb, once in the head. I was pretty annoyed after the first time. By the third time I was just disgusted that they kept returning to that storyline.
Actually, the gods have been mystically impregnating nonconsenting women since before the Christian example. Greek, Norse, Egyptian, and Chinese pantheons have incidences that I can think of offhand...
Thanks for clarifying what it is that is wrong with the mystical pregnancy, as opposed to women celebrating and enjoying a pregnancy. I suspect that the "mystical pregnancy" is often used by writers to punish female actresses for actually getting pregnant in real life (Charisma Carpenter, Gillian Anderson). I also wish that you had mentioned Lost, which I thought was the worst when it came to punishing women with mystical pregnancy.
There are creepy uses of the mystical birth...but I don't think all mystical births function the same way. One labor day weekend I caught Lifetime's "Labor Day Movie Marathon"--which was all problematic pregnancy. In one a woman's possessed child tried to kill her (no one believed her)...what I took away is that there are a lot of women for whom pregnancy isn't a beautiful, celebrated process, but that admitting that in a patriarchy that often only values women as mothers or whores is taboo.
Thank you for discussing this. Thinking back, I realized this trope is very pervasive throughout sci fi and fantasy. Hell, they did it to Ellen Ripley in Alien: Ressurection (a movie that should not have been made).
Almost as pervasive is the "poorly timed birth" In movies and TV, women always seem to give birth and the most inconvenient moments. Take the Star Trek reboot for example. Kirk is born during a space battle where his father dies.
i don't know about this one, what are the writers supposed to do when and actress gets pregant? Hide it? i think that's pretty bad too... And just on the X-Files, the abduction/pregnancy arc was just that, and arc that stretched right into the last season, it was a constant thread through the mythology of the show
Love these videos, they get me thinking and i actually had a massive clean out of all my dvd's andd got rid of about 90% of the rubbish ones, the other 10% i just couldn't part with
1. The current Torchwood season has Gwen Cooper as a mother of a completely normal child, and dealing with the emotional impact of having to do her job away from her child. (Bonus: engaged father figure).
2. The (currently in hiatus) Dr Who season follows the pregnancy of Amy Pond. While it makes allusions to the above trope as a concern for Amy, the pregnancy itself is caused by normal procreation, and the result, far from being demonic, is positive.
I've always felt this was a strange trope, as it often (but far from always) stems from an actress being pregnant in real life, & the writers needing to explain their condition.
Especially when the extended time taken to make shows means that they seem to get very pregnant very quickly, which somewhat precludes a normal conception.
"It makes becoming pregnant seem disgusting and frightening and nightmarish." So true! However, I don't think that the Immaculate Conception fits into this trope, in part, because Mary was asked and gave her consent. The "torture porn" violation aspect of this trope in itself perverts the Biblical account. Aside from religion, this trope does more damage than any other-- it reduces us to "soil" for the "male seed", and subconsciously twists our perception of the dignity of human life.
I agree, and not just because of the sexist aspect. It's just poor story-telling. Towards the end you mentioned that it would be interesting to see a more drawn out story-line involving pregnancy and I think that's exactly it. This trope is silly. People don't get pregnant and have a baby in a day. Biologically, we can't interbreed with all these other creatures anyway. Doesn't make any sense at all. Any of it.
But what would be the alternative, getting men pregnant? Didn't you see "Junior"? I WILL NOT LET THAT HAPPEN AGAIN!!!
(in all seriousness I totally agree with all of your points. I just could not resist making a "Junior" joke, as I so rarely have the opportunity to do so. Thank you for these intelligent and insightful videos.)
There was a horrendous example with Ms. Marvel in Marvel comic books. But does mystical pregnancy always have to be a bad thing? There are cases where it's not displayed as being terrifying, you mention Mary and we she bore Jesus she was not portrayed as being afraid, she just accepted it. That's not the original example though, cause Zeus had all kinds of kids in greek mythology and that predates Christianity.
I enjoyed this. It's good to challenge Jesus' birth along with the Antichirst in the Rosemary's Baby type plot. People kind of take it for granted that women's bodies can be (ab)used for that kind of plot. One thing: Stargate Atlantis' Teyla storyline was not a forced pregnancy like Vala's on SG-1. Her captor held her so he could have her offspring, but that's not quite what you're talking about.
I agree with most everything except the Troi part in that, on Star Trek and many other shows, events such as what Troi went through are rarely ever followed through on; the tramatic event happens, then it's never referenced again, the characters feelings on the matter never explored. It doesn't really feel specific to that situation.
Maybe you didn't want to post the most recent abuse of this trope - Amy Pond's ordeal in Doctor Who because not everyone has seen it. But I find that a classic example. I couldn't explain my absolute horror in words before that Steven Moffat went down that route, but now I can, so thank-you. The eye-patch lady is THE scariest DW villain for me, because it is torture porn - and nothing more. So creepy and disruptive to our society!
@thisloneliness i don't think thats a very good example. nothing was imparticularly fantastic about the pregnancy, but rather the baby itself, which was a timelord or half timelord or something. and amy gets kidnapped because they want the timelord baby specifically.
and it's not really torture porn, i mean theres the plot twist shot of amy pregnant and kidnapped by the eyepatch lady, but that was one shot, and in the next episode the baby is born and we're trying to stop them from taking her.
@thisloneliness I don't know about Amy Pond because *SPOILERS* it wasn't a mystical pregnancy--it was Rory's baby, and it wasn't a horror child, it was an awesome sweet baby. Now the situation around her pregnancy was scary, but not in a way that is un-Doctor Whoey or purely exploitative, and it wasn't a one-week pregnancy with no repercussions: it's fair to say that the baby will be around for a looong time. It seems to me that's a case of a scary situation, not an exploited pregnancy.
@richlayers I think we can say then that it wasn't a mystical conception, but she was in a sense forced to full term without her consent, hell without her KNOWLEDGE. The pregnancy itself, as in the full nine months, could count as mystical, even if the conception isn't.
@NethDugan I would classify Amy's pregnancy situation as in the realm of Mystical Pregnancy because she was kidnapped, and had her mind put in the body of a doppleganger for what we can guess to be the full term of pregnancy. That sounds pretty torturous and non-consenting to me.
@feministfrequency Maybe. And it is torturous and non-consenting for sure but, and maybe this is just how I process things, this trope seems to be about forcing a person to become pregnant by artificially inducing it against their consent. This wasn't really that, though it did end up with a similar emotional impact so probably a grey area. I can see it falling into this but it isn't entirely in it. Perhaps a new trope - torturing pregnant folk is needed.
@feministfrequency Except for the fact it isn't clear WHO got Amy pregnant. It could very well have been a normal child child with Rory and Amy is being exploited by the villain for it's time lord powers. Plus it's treated with emotional significance since it has Rory up in arms to fight for the baby and for Amy, as well as it being emotionally heartbreaking for Amy when the baby they had was a doppelgänger.
Would you believe me if I told you that now fans are writing fan fictions where the male character undergoes a mythical pregnancy?
lovelylostlady 1 month ago 11
Pregnancy on TV is not interesting and it derails the plot-lines. It puts our favorite females out of action and turns them into a burden on the rest of the cast. If I like a female character I don't want to see her turn into an incubator or having to worry about some stupid kid, I want to see her out there killing some aliens, zombies or werewolves(I like violence). Also I want to add pregnancy jokes are not funny anymore they have been done to death.
crerul 1 month ago
@crerul - Whoa, pregnancy and child rearing is not something to be ashamed of, feared, a burden. I don't think that is what she was saying...
Mccudden25 1 month ago
Hey, I'm a Doctor Who fan and I've been wondering in which episode is Martha subjected to a Mystical Pregnancy?
Also--now that I am more aware of this trope, I see it EVERYWHERE. Bloody hell!
SenseOrSensibility 4 months ago 7
This issue is not limited to Sci-Fi. I have yet to see ANY TV show or film that shows a birth that occurs without some form of disfunction that requires input from a (usually male) doctor who saves the woman from her body's failure to "perform".
HannahBadger 4 months ago 8
@HannahBadger THIS. THIS SO VERY MUCH. Why are men always portrayed as the Heroes of Childbirth? It's as if women's bodies have ABSOLUTELY NO IDEA how to deliver a baby naturally, so The Man must intervene and show them what to do! (I LOVE--sarcasm--when male doctors TELL women when to push on TV shows. ANY woman will tell you that when the time for pushing arrives, SHE is the first to know, not the other way around!)
SenseOrSensibility 4 months ago 22
@SenseOrSensibility - Here here!
Mccudden25 1 month ago
This whole tropes series made me realise just how sexist Sci Fi and comics truly are.
djsinnema 4 months ago in playlist More videos from feministfrequency 2
On the subject of the virgin birth, I would google the amazing "Ain't I a Woman?" speech by Sojourner Truth, which makes me think that, as Phyllis Trible argues about Genesis, the virgin birth was also intended to involve a balanced role of the sexes: "And how came Jesus into the world? Through God who created him and the woman who bore him. Man, where was your part?"
electriclemon 4 months ago 7
While the rape aspect is genuinely a grievance, i'd say that if it wasn't so prevalent, playing off of anxieties over childbirth could be legitimate horror grounds. I know plenty of girls who are terrified of childbirth. Real-world fears are the heart of horror in speculative fiction, so it SHOULD - if tastefully done - be fair game. The problem is doing it tastefully.
MrPBarlow 4 months ago 8
Is it fair to lump all Sci-Fi TV pregnancies into one category? I'm familiar with maybe half the examples you cite, and while several of them do seem to fit the "overnight mystical pregnancy that is forgotten about in the next episode" trope, there were a few that seemed a little different.
I'm thinking of the ones with longer pregnancy arcs resulting from an actress being pregnant (e.g. Claudia Black/Vala) I'm not saying these aren't necessarily sexist, but they seem like a different trope.
Darien0Shields 4 months ago
Oh my goodness, when I saw the Xena photograph, such nostalgia. ^_^...I would love to see a review and/or written analysis of what you think of the show, characters, and their feminist qualities or perhaps lack thereof.
1stbrasscaptain 4 months ago
What do you use to edit your videos? I really like it and was just wondering
lavalampheaven 4 months ago
@lavalampheaven I use Final Cut Pro.
feministfrequency 4 months ago 4
hi feminist frequency! I love your blogs and look forward to seeing them, however this video concerns me a little. I understand your point but I feel that your reaction to the virgin mary and the birth of jesus concerning and a little insulting. It makes me feel that women cant be spritual and fight for equal rights or that christian women can't take the pinical of christianity seriously because they think Marry was raped and is in the same catagory as the others, which it's not. thanks michelle
87meshell87 5 months ago
This is so true. The mystical pregnancy thing IS rape, and yet the characters always seem to get over it quickly. Such bullshit. I for one will never use this in my writing, at least not without exploring the lingering effects of the trauma.
Fayanora 5 months ago 6
I'm seeing a lot of people in the comments section justifying some uses this trope by saying "they had to write it because the actress became pregnant."
Really? When an actress becomes pregnant, they automatically have to write a disgusting, disturbing, nightmarish, rape-like supernatural/sci-fi inception and grizzly birth scene that will no doubt terrify female viewers regarding pregnancy?
I didn't know that was the only way to explain away a baby bump on television!
Give1Take2 5 months ago 4
@Give1Take2 There are all sorts of ways to "explain" a baby bump on television--if you're working on a soap opera. The majority of the shows addressed in this segment are action/adventure shows, however, and often the genre they cross with is horror. Not everything you see in a horror tv show or in a horror movie will be pleasant and peachy keen. Horror as a genre exists to express and explore fear and anxiety--and after having had two children myself, I understand these fears very well.
ArinnDembo 5 months ago
@ArinnDembo Science Fiction is not Horror.
feministfrequency 4 months ago
@feministfrequency
Well that's just wrong. It CAN be horror. What do you call Alien? Alien is a science fiction film AND a horror film.
GoldenJoel 4 months ago
I don't think the mystic pregnancy has so much to do with regular pregnancy, but rather a theme of invasion or corruption. the thought of that special place shared between a yet-to-be-mother and her unborn child being invaded by a sinister demon or emotionless alien is enough to make anyone squirm.
gentlemanREX 5 months ago
You say that every existing use of this plot is insulting to women.
But what about those women who have experienced violent and unwanted pregnancies? Does it not dishonor them for you to take a story that portrays the suffering, confusion, and courage of a woman faced with an unwanted pregnancy, and to erase it?
klutterkicker 5 months ago
@klutterkicker These stories are not adept at adequately dealing with the topic, as the consequences of the pregnancy, as was mentioned in the video, are easily glossed over and forgotten, without long-term ramifications. A true pregnancy of this type, no matter the duration, would have great effects and severe emotional trauma. Instead, the filmmakers focus merely on the biological process, distorting it.
skyerune 5 months ago
Not very important but that's not what the immaculate conception is. The immaculate conception was Mary who was born without the stain of original sin and therefore I guess was an appropriate vessel for the child of God. You're thinking of the virgin birth.
redunderthebed4 5 months ago
I wonder if Rosemary's Baby--which is OBVIOUSLY guilty of subscribing to this trope--was trying to show that the denial of agency to the wife was a nightmare, and the current sociological and ideological paradigms of the time were, in fact, horrifying. Rosemary's husband refused to include her in any decisions about their family and trapped her in the house. That movie always seemed to me an indictment against that attitude, saying women were victims in that scheme and portraying how awful it is
gengigloves 5 months ago
@gengigloves Agreed. Ira Levin wrote quite effectively from the female viewpoint in horrific situations, and he was aware of feminist issues and willing to address them, which was pretty progressive for the time. He's also the author of The Stepford Wives, which helps to put things in context.
ArinnDembo 5 months ago 2
This suddenly explains everything I believe about getting pregnant.
thegreayone 5 months ago 6
In fairness to the X-Files, they wrote the Scully being pregnant storyline last minute when in real life Gillian Anderson had become pregnant.
kwaal 5 months ago 4
@kwaal A lot of the pregnancy storylines are because the actor got pregnant but I hardly accept that as an excuse for such invasive, violating and cliche story arcs.
feministfrequency 5 months ago 39
@feministfrequency No offense, but I think your dismissal of the issues of the REAL women who work in the entertainment industry are short-sighted and selfish. Writers often have to struggle to incorporate a pregnant body into a story-line when the CHARACTER (as distinct from the actress) has no legitimate reason to desire a pregnancy, no romantic or personal relationship to cause one, and no reason to transform into the "mommy" role.
ArinnDembo 5 months ago
@ArinnDembo It's shortsighted to think that the writers of Hollywood could be a little more creative in covering up a pregnancy then violating, raping and otherwise torturing their female characters!?
feministfrequency 5 months ago
@feministfrequency I think it's very, very easy to demand that the faceless foe you call "Hollywood writers" be "more creative" when you spend no time whatsoever thinking about what their jobs entail and what problems they are facing on the ground. They do not get to exert dictatorial control over the bodies and personal lives of the women on the set. They end up having to write around a nasty biological reality which completely violates the show's continuity and the character's planned arc.
ArinnDembo 5 months ago
@ArinnDembo Well heaven forbid female actors get a "nasty" case of pregnancy and make the jobs of those poor Hollywood writers difficult.
feministfrequency 5 months ago 3
@ArinnDembo
..."A nasty biological reality"? Really? Maybe this isn't the right place for you to be commenting.
cielocrimisi 4 months ago
@feministfrequency If your dictate was followed, in other words, women would be fired from a series Every. Single. Time. That they got pregnant in real life. It would be yet another reason to punish REAL women in REAL life who are trying to make a living. Yet another reason to have NO female characters on a show, or to subject actresses to brutal control of their personal lives. Yet another reason for us to have less work, and be less represented in all media. Personally, I'll take the trope.
ArinnDembo 5 months ago
@ArinnDembo Do you have an inability to understand what creative means, it does not mean firing women or not employing women because they could become pregnant, it means that they can work around the physicality of pregnancy in creative ways. They can float through space, create amazing special effects, invent new military weapons and they can't come up with a way to deal with a pregnant woman? Ya right! it's about priorities.
feministfrequency 5 months ago 7
@feministfrequency Actually, they do come up with a way to deal with a pregnant woman. What they do is write around her and the pregnancy in a way that does NOT screw up the entire show and leave the audience wanting more soap opera crap about "So-and-So's love child". See, writing a genuinely planned and wanted pregnancy into a character's life is every bit as huge an event as it is in a real woman's life. Children are baggage that not every character and every show can afford to carry.
ArinnDembo 5 months ago
Excellent as always! This one always bugs me to no end when it emerges from the sludge. Thinking deeply about these situations, it is preeeetty messed up on multiple levels...
unlimitedbravado 5 months ago 2
This video will be interesting viewing once whichever part of Breaking Dawn that includes Bella's horrific vampire torture birth comes to theaters. What with all the talk of demon spawn and rapidly aging children, this trope hits close to home for the finale of the Twilight Saga.
KayBarberino 5 months ago 63
There's....a lot of stuff to unpack in this. Especially within science fiction. It's super old too, sex and pregnancy ARE scary, even if they're natural, and people have been coming up with narratives to deal with that for a long time. Especially people who have never been, or can't get, pregnant. This issue is sooo much bigger than modern feminism. We spent most of our history with no idea how the body worked and so we made up stories, and those stories haven't really gone away.
MsFeyCreature 5 months ago
Yayy, Torchwood!
leylakabaran 5 months ago
What's your opinion on the film Juno? Being pregnant wasn't a bad thing, but it did seem to be very much a pesky sidenote to the romance.
europegirlh2o 5 months ago
I strongly you suggest reading The Handmaids Tale if you haven't. I think it would make a fantastic show plotline.
krybski 5 months ago
I know this has probably been covered, but the Virgin Birth is not the "original" one, just the most well known. Women have been reduced to baby houses since the beginning of time (probably).
krybski 5 months ago
This is the trope that is often the most disturbing. You goofed on "immaculate conception"--that doesn't refer to virgin birth, it refers to the idea that Mary was born without sin even though she was conceived in the normal way. It's a very Catholic concept that I don't think Protestants invoke. The virgin birth concept was found in Assyria and in Buddhism prior to Christianity, while the messiah concept became part of Judaism when it was exposed to Zoroastrianism.
scottandrewhutchins 5 months ago
And the lack of development of the "long term emotional ramifications" in bad tv shows applies to ANY truamatic events, not JUST pregnancy. That's a bigger problem with writers than just pregnancy.
threeeyesworm 5 months ago 3
I also think the video oversimplifies things. I haven't seen the other shows but I feel like it takes the pregnancies in BSG and the X-files out of context. The invasive and uncontrollable nature of those pregnancies are meant to show the horror of the enemies the characters are faced with. They also fit with the themes of the show and the development of the characters. To lump them with other shows where pregnancies are poorly done is overgeneralizing.
threeeyesworm 5 months ago
Just curious about your opinions on Children of Men? In the movie, they quickly mention that Kee had consensual sex, I think, but the guy ins't important as far as moving the plot along. I did find it interesting that neither women nor men were condemned as the culprit, nor technology or pollution for that matter, it just was.
Sidenote: What did you think of Kiff's pregnancy plotline on Futurama?
ourabouras 5 months ago
Wait...you have a picture of Martha Jones at 1:13. When in Doctor Who does she get pregnant?
Other than that, great video.
MariPoncho12 5 months ago
I have to say that the x-files was my first experience with this, but I thought they handled it well, with a very human reaction every time. I loved that show and Scully was the main character, seriously. Mulder was a whiny child, even though he was center, he got abducted and then it was really Scully's show.
It also was a mystery what happened to her, it was the government too, and it dealt with a lot of violence against women too. If anyone handled this trope inside their genre well, x-files
dianacameronmcqueen 5 months ago
"Pregnancy is not a here one week gone the next kind of a thing"
This is the thing that annoys me. That everything always happens quickly, with no lasting effect on the woman.
One example of pregnancy in tv that I liked was on a show called Psych. The (female) police chief is pregnant, but it's not even some plot point. It's just the way she is for about a season until the actor (and thus also the character) had her baby. It was pregnancy treated like a normal, natural thing.
mixobridian 5 months ago
A question about Starbuck, BSG, and Pregnancy. How does this fit in with the throw away episodes of other shows? The drive for Cylons to have a Hybrid between Humans and Cylons is a major plot point in the show. This was not a throw away moment. On Caprica they were kidnapping women to make pregnant, Boomer and Helo had a child together. Hera might not be a fully formed character, but she is very important to the plot. Where is the line between troope and important plot theme?
earthdog7900 5 months ago
What do you think of the pregnancy of Moya the Leviathan on Farscape? Trope or good writing?
earthdog7900 5 months ago
@earthdog7900 I really liked Moya's character and I thought her pregnancy was an interested story arc, it didn't feel contrived and forced and I mean, how many times have you seen a spaceship have a baby!?
feministfrequency 5 months ago 6
This shit might as well be called magical rape because in a lot of cases, that's what it is but since its sci-fi, it doesn't count...despite the fact that its still basically rape but with some stupid made up shit shoved in to make people feel less guilty. Yeah, women are the holders of life, whatever excuse you want to put in but THAT does not excuse that so many examples have to show women SUFFERING and being tortured. If pregnancy is so pure and vital, why is it always demonized like this?
TheInkySea 6 months ago
God pregnant women already have to deal with rude people with out these stupid plot lines. Seriously, you get pregnant and suddenly you privacy goes right out the window. Complete strange will come up and touch your belly! And people make so many comments about your weight and are so opinionated about the way you give birth and whether or not you will breast feed. How about making an episode that deals with those issues instead of this alien crap.
Kaldary 6 months ago
Please create more videos on women and tropes. I love this series.
Moionfire 6 months ago
I hate this trope, both for idealogical reasons and because I just never enjoy it. It was one reason that I was edgy when Amy got "is she, isn't she" pregnant. I'm still not sure how I feel about how it was handled. I think that I will need to see how the second half of the season goes.
Candypirate11 6 months ago
In the case of Troi in Star Trek, the lack of development is a case of the infamous "reset button" where everything "resets" at the end of the episode, before Babylon 5 made story arcs the norm in TV shows.
In alot of cases, writers use the mystical pregnancy to creep out viewers as "Nightmare Fuel", but its become so absurdly overused that it has lost any real impact to shock and frighten. Like most nightmare fuel it preys on people's subconcscious and conscious fears.
Relugus 6 months ago
An absolutely amazing analysis of an infuriating and dominate trope in Hollywood, as always. While watching this I was also thinking about the final book in the Twilight Saga and how pregnancy, which is already something strange and foreign to younger teenagers who might read the books, is turned into the scene from Alien when the newborn extraterrestrial bursts out of Officer Kane's stomach!
I also loved your reference, whether intentional or not, to The Handmaid's Tale at the end!!
stilleddust 6 months ago
So happy to see your new video!
rmorrisme 6 months ago
there should be a video on female friendship!!! pleeeeeease
shinyalbert 6 months ago
I myself am a Christian, so while I don't agree that Mary's Immaculate Conception was forced upon or made up like anything in a Sci-fi (though I'll probably get flak just for saying that much) I agree with everything else that you just said.
I'm not a mother and I don't exactly plan on becoming one, (ever) but pregnancy shouldn't be treated as nightmare fuel. (Even if it's become nightmare fuel at this point) It should be treated like the special, beautiful thing that it really is!
MizuTakishima3 6 months ago
SPOILER ALERT. I don't now if it's been shown in the U.S.A. yet but this trope was used in the most recent series of Dr Who and it made me so angry! They stuck the Dr's assistant (who until that point was a fairly plausible character) in a spaceship and had her impregnated and helplessly weeping, only for her baby to later dissolve into a pile of sludge. It pretty much turned my stomach. I feel like the show disrespected both the character and motherhood in general. ugh.
clothesandcurls 6 months ago 2
Ugh- Torchwood. Let's just take everything about Doctor Who apart from the good stuff, make it post-watershed and write the scripts while dunk out of our minds. Interesting video by the way, what are your thoughts on Amy's pregnancy in the actual Doctor Who program? Not a "mystical" pregnancy since it was good ol' fashioned reproduction, but it had some pretty terrifying stuff surrounding it.
PompamooseMagique 6 months ago
if you are interested in Japanese animation, I would recommend you to watch MORIBITO: Guardian of the Spirit. It is about Mystical Pregnancy of a teenage boy which might be interesting for you.
flyinmoon 6 months ago
What is the clip at 6:32 from?
BooDestroyer 6 months ago
Will you be doing "Dansel in Distress"? I fucking HATE that trope.
Rikku2250 6 months ago 2
@Rikku2250 I was going to but it's a fairly obvious trope that I think most people are already quite aware of.
feministfrequency 5 months ago 6
@feministfrequency
Aw, I was hoping to hear your witty opinion on it.
Rikku2250 5 months ago
I gotta say, I think the Torchwood episode "Something Borrowed" was hella pro-choice.
RitchandFamous 6 months ago
Love it that you showed Farscape. ;)
LicoriceLain 6 months ago
I think it's worth noting that some of these storylines were written in because the actresses got pregnant (this was the case for Gillian Anderson and Charisma Carpenter the second time around), but I suppose that doesn't mean they couldn't've treated the subject in a better fashion. Btw, the "Immaculate Conception" refers to Mary supposedly being born without original sin -- not her mystical pregnancy.
bmh4d0k3n 6 months ago 8
@bmh4d0k3n - In Catholicism yes, but in Evangelical circles its often thought to mean Mary's pregnancy with Jesus.
rebelliouspixels 6 months ago
@bmh4d0k3n I often wonder if they could handle an actresses pregnancy differently. Like hide it. When she's in the second or third triamester, have episodes where all the characters have to wear big clothes for whatever reason. Or use some episodes to focus on some minor characters to give them some development. Or even a "what if" episode that features the character pregnant.
Kaldary 6 months ago
@Kaldary Dude you obviously haven't been paying attention cause shows often do this when they don't want a character to randomly become pregnant. Way back when on the Cosby's Claire would walk around with bags in front of her belly or be shot mid-bust. More recently they had Mariska Hagerity in all black on SVU, Gina Bellman on Leverage, Tiffany Amber Theissan on White Collar, etc.
ourabouras 5 months ago
Poor Troi. When something had to happen to a woman, it had to happen to her. She was even psychically raped for the second time in Nemesis. It's sad because the show was suppose to be progressive.
DarkEmergence 6 months ago 3
Thanks for the video! I knew the second I saw the title that Scully from X-Files would be included. Gillian Anderson was indeed pregnant in real life and Chris Carter (screenwriter) had to fit that into the story for the next few months. And while her pregnancy wasn't actually an "alien rape" sort of thing, it still seemed a little cliche to me. Thanks again for the video! :)
MarieAngelina100 6 months ago
There's actually people trying to pass laws to criminalize miscarriages?
caitycaitcake 6 months ago 4
I'm amused you didn't include Twilight, which will be the most popular and shameless of this trope. I haven't read the book, but I hear there was some bone-breaking and blood spouting. Oh, and a freak of nature adult-baby who gets "imprinted" upon by a pervy fully formed adult.
UnitedTen 6 months ago 11
I thought of the sims 2 'alien pregnancy' feature, but that isnt quite the same since men can get pregnant too (which is how the whole concept was introduced) and the sims is an entire game fabricated by tropes, so bringing it up wouldn't really go anywhere.
MrCandyHouze 6 months ago
My knees shook with excitement when I discovered you posted a new video!!
MrCandyHouze 6 months ago
There is a short film called Silver Sling on the channell IndiesLab that gives a great sci-fi pregnancy story with a lot of emotional impact. I recommend it.
CorianderCivar 6 months ago
finally you post a new one!!ive been waiting forever for another video!!!:) awesome video btw!
Rosieuchiha 6 months ago 4
In Startrek Enterprise Commander Charles 'Trip' Tucker III was once unwillingly impregnated by an alien.
Mastikator 7 months ago
@Mastikator And then they shrug it off as a comedic missunderstanding.
lilpjotr 6 months ago
This video was kind of sad for me, because I LOVE almost every show you featured clips from, but I guess it just proves how pervasive and overused the trope is (even back to mythology-there are so many ancient gods who were born through mystical pregnancy!)
Also, kudos for that brief clip of the 1990 version of The Handmaid's Tale! One of my favorite books ever and a fairly faithful adaptation.
wingnutlady 7 months ago
Isn't the point of many of these mystical pregnancies that a character the viewer cares about has been violated?
Sure it's a cheap and worn out storyline, but maybe it plays just as much to our social protective nature as to a desire by male script writers to violate.
The flip side from a male perspective is the xenophobic nature of these pregnancies, the concept that for males within a social group a female becoming pregnant to an 'outsider' would be a threat to their genetic dominance.
EvilgnomeTV 7 months ago 2
As always, you are spot on. And though I will defend BSG to the death, harvesting Starbuck's ovaries was completely uncalled for.
Psypomp 7 months ago
Reproductive anxiety is real, pregnancy is risky. It makes sense that these issues would manifest in scifi/ horror. Horror exploits our fears and blows them out of proportion to make reality easier to deal with. Why is your feminist perspective that women should be dealt with, in stories, with delicacy and respect all of the time? I'm all for reproductive rights in real life, but writers own their characters, I say they have the right to do with them as they wish.
MiyakaSpeaks 7 months ago
@MiyakaSpeaks I don't think anybody is seriously debating a person's *right* to write characters - it seems like a pointless thing to say when it is countering a non-argument. No, the points are 1) this is a reoccurring theme 2)limited specifically to women (I imagine there are some male preggo exceptions, although the entire process is coded as female, biologically speaking). Given that I can't think of a "reproductive anxiety" trope for men (that does not involve misogyny) it is imbalanced.
ohthesovietkitsch 6 months ago
@MiyakaSpeaks Also, at no point is it suggested that female characters must be "dealt" with with "delicacy and respect" - I would be interested to know the words which indicated this as being the case explicitly to you. It seems to me that ff is, feminism aside, bringing up a tired, tired trope which is overdone and certainly does not respect an intelligent audience never mind its characters.
ohthesovietkitsch 6 months ago
One congressman was quoted as saying 90% of all planned parenthood activities are abortions. When he was called out on the fact that this practise probably accounts for only <10% of their activities he said "It was not intended to be a factual statement."
ArcaneSky 7 months ago
Cordelia was technically three times. She had anothe rbaby inserted into the back of her head manifesting as a third eye. Not quite the same thing but still interesting to note (the original victim in this same case was also a young girl.) Angel is actually notorious for this as there are multiple mystical pregnancies throughout the show's 5 seasons.
ArcaneSky 7 months ago
@ArcaneSky Yeah like Darla's too, which is in no way a lesser example than Cordelia's.
ZeerosFate 6 months ago
I can never watch TV episodes with any type of pregnancy. Ever since I was a kid, the idea of being pregnant freaked me out to no end. I went to a Christian school K-8th grade. I distinctly remember a bible lesson in 6th grade, where my teacher had me read a passage out loud, then explain that it meant that God made birth painful to punish women for Eve eating the fruit of knowledge. I'm 27, have my own perception of the world, and still I think I never got over that.
babileilei 7 months ago 2
What's this about criminalizing miscarriages? I haven't heard of this - how can they do that? Can someone from the United States please explain? What's going on down there?
MyLadyGreensleeves77 7 months ago
I think that, while this trope is certainly a violation of a woman's body, it's used so much precisely because it is a traumatic event for anyone to witness. All those women getting impregnated and screaming and writhing in pain is a surefire (if cheap) way to induce a feeling of sympathy or drama from viewers. Bad and chauvinistic writing is what makes this trope offensive. If it was handled properly, it would be a good source of humanization, vulnerability and drama, if not even tragedy.
YoungAdelaide 7 months ago 4
1.ANITA! I LOVE LOVE LOVE! the connection to religion: the virgin mary and the real world' attack on women's reproductive rights from the religious right!!! its BRILLIANT!
2. at first i didnt agree with you because i am an die hard XENA FAN and i was thinking that pregnancy gave female heroes a warrior motherhood character (btw xenas child was technically a LESBIAN BIRTH) BUT i do see your point with the scifi examples because its making womens biology a source of fear and vulnerability right?
PimpMyParadigm 7 months ago
Is the immaculate conception really the original? Wasn't virgin birth around long before that? I can't think of examples, but I'm almost certain that it didn't first come up with Jesus. (I mean logically it just makes sense, considering how every culture considers a woman to be soiled if she's not a virgin, therefore, important figures should be born of a "pure" woman, so one would expect a lot of virgin birth mythologies to pop up everywhere.)
LanceDirk 7 months ago
@LanceDirk
The immaculate conception refers to an entirely different event: that is, that the Blessed Mother was entirely preserved from original sin from the moment of her conception. This belief is accepted by Catholics and no one else.
There have been plenty of -mystical- births throughout history, but the amount of virgin births is much more limited. I believe its true of the mothers of the avatars of Krishna though.
Foolyho 7 months ago 2
@stilledlife
All Christians call themselves servants of God. You still have free will: when she said "be it done unto me" she gave her consent to share her life with the God the Son.
I don't mind the virgin birth being included (though its NOT the immaculate conception), because it is mystical and a pregnancy. But its a misrepresentation of all Christian understanding about the Blessed Mother to say she was in any way unwilling or that the Holy Spirit would have come upon her unwillingly.
Foolyho 7 months ago 36
@Foolyho
Considering the average age of marriage at that time though; wouldn't she have been 12-14 and most likely still an incident of statutory rape?
gumbo2 5 months ago
It doesn't just happen in christianity, it happens in so many other religions. I was astonished to find how many times this happens in Greek mythology. One of the most celebrated mythological figures, Zeus, has done this several times.
Zaknafiein 7 months ago 3
I was about to say this, but it seems that everyone else has realized it too. It's really just a form of rape, but the writers thought it'd be okay to put on TV, because it isn't "accttuuaalllyyyyy" rape (it is.) Of all the trope videos you've done, I'd have to say that this is the trope that bothers me the most.
paintedsquid 7 months ago 63
I love Torchwood and I'm really disappointed to see they used this trope and gave Gwen an alien pregnancy. (I haven't gotten that far into the show yet.) Also, I know Amy's pregnancy on Doctor Who sort of falls into this category, but I think DW is also one of the few shows that has really shown the emotional side effects of this. Amy, Rory, and even the Doctor have all been greatly affected and the show doesn't just brush it off.
theXgreatXperhaps 7 months ago
I love your channel. I discovered it because a clip from one of your videos was used in someone else's video.
When I saw what you were doing on your here, I subbed immediately!
This is GREAT stuff!
2bsirius 7 months ago
Does the Tamara Johansen pregnancy arc in Stargate Universe count as a Mystical Pregnancy that degrades women? I feel like its an example within the very genre thats being discussed here that treats the topic respectfully. Thoughts?
threeleggedcasey 7 months ago
Comment removed
leavingnormal88 7 months ago
Awesome video! I would be happy if I never saw a pregnancy in a sci fi/fantasy series ever again, honestly, mystical or not. All too often the "having a baby" is just jumping the shark, and that's if it's a regular pregnancy. Mystical ones are like "oh well turns out MAGIC and you're not pregnant any more, lol, let's just pretend this never happened!" You don't just FORGET that sort of thing, and the way that pregnancy is treated as no big deal is just abominable.
Keep making videos!
HeavyMetalsChemist 7 months ago
I think it should depend on HOW the pregnancy is used. As much as I think Rosemarie's baby is over-rated, it IS a horror film after all. The pregnancy isn't meant to be roses and sunshine because the horror comes from the twist ending of the pregnancy. On the other end of the scale, in the most recent series of Dr.Who, Amy Pond gets pregnant with a baby central to the plotline, But it's taken very seriously and seen as a tender emotional moment when the baby is conceived and the twist revealed.
Nightmare060 7 months ago
@Nightmare060 Really? I think DW has handled the whole thing awfully - I mean, for the most part Amy was not even aware of her pregnancy, she was too busy being held captive by some ubervillian waiting to harvest her child whilst she carried on obliviously, thereby FORCING her to have the baby by concealing her own pregnancy from her until the last second! Creepy in the context of her previously being relieved at not being pregnant TWICE (in the dream episode, and as flesh!Amy).
ohthesovietkitsch 6 months ago
I'm not so sure Farscape belongs in that category as her pregnancy was a long term storyline and she was not forcibly impregnated or mysteriously so. Her pregnancy was used against her, yes, but that child was her lover's child. The show treated it realistically too, she didn't just shake it all off by the next episode. I can't say I really agree with the whole of this trophe but I see your point of view on it. Pregnancy is creepy to a lot of women too, so it makes for good horror ;)
omgtwee 7 months ago
Here's why you SHOULDN'T have brought up the Virgin Mary/Immaculate Conception: In 99.9% of "mystical pregnancy" stories -- even going back to ancient myths -- the "mystical pregnancy" was brought on by rape. Whether it's a mortal woman being ravished by Zeus in Greek mythology or an "alien abduction" in a sci-fi series, the encounters are almost never consensual and the pregnancies are made all the more shocking and disturbing an experience because of it. Mary CONSENTING to have God's child as
GeishaShattori 7 months ago
@GeishaShattori There was never consent.
All of Luke1:26-37 is her being TOLD that she will conceive. There was no "Will you bare the lords kid Jesus?" No, that never happened. Luke1:37 states it plainly enough "For no word from God will ever fail.”
She was made for that one purpose. She said I am a servant, a slave, a hand maid, or a bondmaid. She stated this that she is a subservient being who had not control of the situation. That is not consent and don't pretend that it is.
stilledlife 7 months ago 5
@GeishaShattori Are you saying that the women mentioned here and other stories that are impregnated are made pregnant through sexual assault (as in, forced vaginal penetration -- sorry for the description, but trying to be specific!)? I'm not familiar with all the ones mentioned here, but I know that some are not brought on by an act of rape. Many of the women are artificially inseminated in some way. Now that, I believe, would be reproductive rape. If that's what you meant, excuse my comment.
jadewuzlyke 7 months ago
Very good, as have been all the trope videos.
One bit of (Star Trek nerd) trivia about "The Child" that, while not excusing it, may explain why that episode is so exceptionally bad. That episode was produced during a writers' strike and the script was one they salvaged from the proposed, but never produced, Star Trek 2 TV series from the early/mid 70s, so that script was probably 10+ years old already when it got produced (and none of those Star Trek 2 scripts were any good either).
ScuzzBX 7 months ago
They want to make miscarriages illegal? WTF!
UniversalKiwi 7 months ago
@UniversalKiwi SERIOUSLY! Miscarriages are accidents and very devastating to some women. And they want to punish those women?
MsPenchi 7 months ago
I really enjoyed this video. My one issue was your mention of Mary + Jesus as the first immaculate conception myth. This myth did not start there; it's been around for a looong time in all sorts of mythologies/religions.
zedraconomicon 7 months ago
The truth is, Mystical Pregnancy shouldn't just be happening to woman. I mean, if you're gonna get someone pregnant, wouldn't it be interesting for an alien race to use a man? I think too often Aliens are humanized to just looking a little different, when in reality there is a whole range of possibilities when it comes to alien biology and how it contrasts to human biology. I mean, if we're going to violate characters we might as well make it equal opportunity.
LunaZola 7 months ago 5
@LunaZola Alien anyone?
Nightmare060 7 months ago
I don't know if anyone else brought this up (too many comments!), but the story of Mary's virgin birth isn't the first Mystical Pregnancy. Isis conceived the child Horus while her husband Osiris was dead (his weenie was eaten by a fish, so she made him a gold one and used that). I guess that doesn't entirely apply because it was voluntary. But unless that golden dildo had golden god-sperm, it's still a magical pregnancy.
LittleBelladonna 7 months ago
it's absolutely unnerving that they are terrorizing the child bearing and birth giving experience, specially without making sure to continue the plot dealing with the emotional aspects resulting from the trauma. great as always! never mind upsetting comments, everything is criticable if done in such a good way as yours!
leenaguer 7 months ago
My first thought was of women in sci-fi who were pregnant, but that pregnancy didn't fit this trope. The only one I feel certain of is Major Kira Nerys from ST: Deep Space Nine. While she is not pregnant with her own child, but with the child of Miles and Keiko, it is a several episode plot which explores what it means to be a parent, a mother, and someone who is producing life. This time, at least, it is more than a trope.
psycmoe 7 months ago
Wait, wait, what? Some places are trying to criminalise miscarriages?? What the actual fuck?
beansidhebaby 7 months ago 8
@beansidhebaby You have to be able to prove that nothing you did caused the miscarriage. (Forget the fact that most doctors don't KNOW what certainly will or won't cause one.) Basically, a miscarriage is assumed to be an illegally performed abortion unless proven otherwise. Women in those states are now Guilty until proven Innocent.
SaramisKismet 6 months ago
I didn't realize this trope was so widespread, but now that I think about it it does seem true. I'd add that when pregnancies are dealt without alien abductions etc., it seems they're often either in a casual 20 second montage, or the hormonal fluctuations are overemphasized to strengthen the sexist notion that women are chemically imbalanced weirdoes ("Morning Sickness", "Screaming Birth", "Wacky Cravings" etc.).
Btw, are you planning on making a video about the trope "Menstrual Menace"?
ConscientiousMind 7 months ago
I noticed you didn't mention Bella's pregnancy with a vampire child that rips its way out of her stomach and then rapidly ages until adolescence in Breaking Dawn. That's bad enough without thinking about how when the baby was conceived it was essentially the roughest sex ever and when she woke up she had bruises all over her body and the bed was broken.
xXGENEbyGENEXx 7 months ago
thanks so much for your videos! they opened up a whole new perspective on pop culture for me... I just wanted to point out that the whole 'pregnancy-by-alien' thing is not something which comes only out of fantasy or religion. Rape is recognized as a form of genocide and was/ is pretty common in the real world too...While I understand your criticism very well, I guess one could use this trope to expound the problems of that...or would that be just as wrong?
Apfelsine22 7 months ago
Getting rid of this trope would force Hollywood writers to get off their duff and actually WRITE new plot lines. Excellent points!
kborn076 7 months ago
It should be pointed out, some of the pictures you used are taken from cases where a woman was pregnant on the show through, ahem, more traditional means and the producers didn't try to hide it by have them carry a folder in front of them or sit behind a desk the entire time. Namely Aeryn and Teyla. Though they're from the vid it seems.
Mostly, though, I tend to agree with you on the trope. Way too often, with so little regard for the women involved.
NethDugan 7 months ago
@NethDugan Whether an actor is pregnant or not doesn't mean that the writers have to violate the character to include a pregnancy story arc.
feministfrequency 7 months ago
@feministfrequency Well, no. But in the case of Teyla and Aeryn their pregnancies didn't originate in being violated. Crap happened to them after but that wasn't a 'outsiders force you to be pregnant' type thing. And they're both shown in this vid. I just think we should keep the 'crap happens to women, sometimes including pregnant women' from this trope.
NethDugan 7 months ago
This is so well done - thank you for addressing it! I, too, immediately thought of Amy Pond on Doctor Who. While it is somewhat different circumstances - her baby is not truly alien, after all, and she got pregnant the usual way - it was still a very disturbing plotline and not just because it turned her character into nothing more than biology, though the end that is what bugs me more than anything else about pregnancy in fiction: it often makes the women only as important as their biology.
MargotGentry 7 months ago
Cordelia from Angel was actually impregnanted 3 times. Twice in the womb, once in the head. I was pretty annoyed after the first time. By the third time I was just disgusted that they kept returning to that storyline.
richlayers 7 months ago
at least aeryn sun wanted to get pregnant
steampunkerella 7 months ago
Actually, the gods have been mystically impregnating nonconsenting women since before the Christian example. Greek, Norse, Egyptian, and Chinese pantheons have incidences that I can think of offhand...
kyriathalia 7 months ago
Thanks for clarifying what it is that is wrong with the mystical pregnancy, as opposed to women celebrating and enjoying a pregnancy. I suspect that the "mystical pregnancy" is often used by writers to punish female actresses for actually getting pregnant in real life (Charisma Carpenter, Gillian Anderson). I also wish that you had mentioned Lost, which I thought was the worst when it came to punishing women with mystical pregnancy.
karacherith 7 months ago
@karacherith I was going to include Lost but sadly I had to cut it, but that was definitely in Mystical Pregnancy territory!
feministfrequency 7 months ago
There are creepy uses of the mystical birth...but I don't think all mystical births function the same way. One labor day weekend I caught Lifetime's "Labor Day Movie Marathon"--which was all problematic pregnancy. In one a woman's possessed child tried to kill her (no one believed her)...what I took away is that there are a lot of women for whom pregnancy isn't a beautiful, celebrated process, but that admitting that in a patriarchy that often only values women as mothers or whores is taboo.
troopersjp 7 months ago
Thank you for discussing this. Thinking back, I realized this trope is very pervasive throughout sci fi and fantasy. Hell, they did it to Ellen Ripley in Alien: Ressurection (a movie that should not have been made).
Almost as pervasive is the "poorly timed birth" In movies and TV, women always seem to give birth and the most inconvenient moments. Take the Star Trek reboot for example. Kirk is born during a space battle where his father dies.
kingx101 7 months ago
i don't know about this one, what are the writers supposed to do when and actress gets pregant? Hide it? i think that's pretty bad too... And just on the X-Files, the abduction/pregnancy arc was just that, and arc that stretched right into the last season, it was a constant thread through the mythology of the show
Love these videos, they get me thinking and i actually had a massive clean out of all my dvd's andd got rid of about 90% of the rubbish ones, the other 10% i just couldn't part with
carleyb81 7 months ago
Spoilers to Torchwood and Dr. Who ahead!
1. The current Torchwood season has Gwen Cooper as a mother of a completely normal child, and dealing with the emotional impact of having to do her job away from her child. (Bonus: engaged father figure).
2. The (currently in hiatus) Dr Who season follows the pregnancy of Amy Pond. While it makes allusions to the above trope as a concern for Amy, the pregnancy itself is caused by normal procreation, and the result, far from being demonic, is positive.
doviod 7 months ago
I've always felt this was a strange trope, as it often (but far from always) stems from an actress being pregnant in real life, & the writers needing to explain their condition.
Especially when the extended time taken to make shows means that they seem to get very pregnant very quickly, which somewhat precludes a normal conception.
Winterdenni 7 months ago
"It makes becoming pregnant seem disgusting and frightening and nightmarish." So true! However, I don't think that the Immaculate Conception fits into this trope, in part, because Mary was asked and gave her consent. The "torture porn" violation aspect of this trope in itself perverts the Biblical account. Aside from religion, this trope does more damage than any other-- it reduces us to "soil" for the "male seed", and subconsciously twists our perception of the dignity of human life.
CarolynsChannel 7 months ago 2
I agree, and not just because of the sexist aspect. It's just poor story-telling. Towards the end you mentioned that it would be interesting to see a more drawn out story-line involving pregnancy and I think that's exactly it. This trope is silly. People don't get pregnant and have a baby in a day. Biologically, we can't interbreed with all these other creatures anyway. Doesn't make any sense at all. Any of it.
Weaselheadx 7 months ago
But what would be the alternative, getting men pregnant? Didn't you see "Junior"? I WILL NOT LET THAT HAPPEN AGAIN!!!
(in all seriousness I totally agree with all of your points. I just could not resist making a "Junior" joke, as I so rarely have the opportunity to do so. Thank you for these intelligent and insightful videos.)
tozzip 7 months ago
There was a horrendous example with Ms. Marvel in Marvel comic books. But does mystical pregnancy always have to be a bad thing? There are cases where it's not displayed as being terrifying, you mention Mary and we she bore Jesus she was not portrayed as being afraid, she just accepted it. That's not the original example though, cause Zeus had all kinds of kids in greek mythology and that predates Christianity.
PetiteOzma 7 months ago
Yay, another video :) ...*waits patiently for #6*....
Abeba323 7 months ago
I enjoyed this. It's good to challenge Jesus' birth along with the Antichirst in the Rosemary's Baby type plot. People kind of take it for granted that women's bodies can be (ab)used for that kind of plot. One thing: Stargate Atlantis' Teyla storyline was not a forced pregnancy like Vala's on SG-1. Her captor held her so he could have her offspring, but that's not quite what you're talking about.
GoingRampant 7 months ago
thank you for pointing out the stupidity of the immaculate conception... among its other faults!
shflbm 7 months ago
I agree with most everything except the Troi part in that, on Star Trek and many other shows, events such as what Troi went through are rarely ever followed through on; the tramatic event happens, then it's never referenced again, the characters feelings on the matter never explored. It doesn't really feel specific to that situation.
UnveiledAngel 7 months ago
Maybe you didn't want to post the most recent abuse of this trope - Amy Pond's ordeal in Doctor Who because not everyone has seen it. But I find that a classic example. I couldn't explain my absolute horror in words before that Steven Moffat went down that route, but now I can, so thank-you. The eye-patch lady is THE scariest DW villain for me, because it is torture porn - and nothing more. So creepy and disruptive to our society!
thisloneliness 7 months ago 2
@thisloneliness i don't think thats a very good example. nothing was imparticularly fantastic about the pregnancy, but rather the baby itself, which was a timelord or half timelord or something. and amy gets kidnapped because they want the timelord baby specifically.
and it's not really torture porn, i mean theres the plot twist shot of amy pregnant and kidnapped by the eyepatch lady, but that was one shot, and in the next episode the baby is born and we're trying to stop them from taking her.
astrochiken 7 months ago
@thisloneliness I don't know about Amy Pond because *SPOILERS* it wasn't a mystical pregnancy--it was Rory's baby, and it wasn't a horror child, it was an awesome sweet baby. Now the situation around her pregnancy was scary, but not in a way that is un-Doctor Whoey or purely exploitative, and it wasn't a one-week pregnancy with no repercussions: it's fair to say that the baby will be around for a looong time. It seems to me that's a case of a scary situation, not an exploited pregnancy.
richlayers 7 months ago
@richlayers I think we can say then that it wasn't a mystical conception, but she was in a sense forced to full term without her consent, hell without her KNOWLEDGE. The pregnancy itself, as in the full nine months, could count as mystical, even if the conception isn't.
SaramisKismet 6 months ago
@thisloneliness Ummm, the implication tends to be that Amy got pregnant via her husband in the traditional way, was then kidnapped and crap happened.
Which... this is a trope of its own really but it isn't this trope.
NethDugan 7 months ago
@NethDugan I would classify Amy's pregnancy situation as in the realm of Mystical Pregnancy because she was kidnapped, and had her mind put in the body of a doppleganger for what we can guess to be the full term of pregnancy. That sounds pretty torturous and non-consenting to me.
feministfrequency 7 months ago
@feministfrequency Maybe. And it is torturous and non-consenting for sure but, and maybe this is just how I process things, this trope seems to be about forcing a person to become pregnant by artificially inducing it against their consent. This wasn't really that, though it did end up with a similar emotional impact so probably a grey area. I can see it falling into this but it isn't entirely in it. Perhaps a new trope - torturing pregnant folk is needed.
NethDugan 7 months ago
@feministfrequency Except for the fact it isn't clear WHO got Amy pregnant. It could very well have been a normal child child with Rory and Amy is being exploited by the villain for it's time lord powers. Plus it's treated with emotional significance since it has Rory up in arms to fight for the baby and for Amy, as well as it being emotionally heartbreaking for Amy when the baby they had was a doppelgänger.
Nightmare060 7 months ago