I wish Willam Cheung would of just been honest and not make up lies like that Yip Man 'only' taught him the 'true' traditional wing chun. He has really caused alot of debate over his lies. His Chum Kiu is clearly modified, not traditional! How does he expect people to believe that?
I think that Wing Chun was developed by a group of people probably in the sourthern Shoalin Temple. I do believe that there are a number of different versions floating around because some people have always known more than others. However it doesn't stop the ones that arent very good teachers passing on what they know to students that are very dedicated and wont hear a bad word spoken about their less than authentic/effective version.
This shouldn't be called "Chum Kiu". 1 of the main points of CK is to learn how to shift your balance around on the balance base & how to torque the waist. He's got none of that. Completely missing the points of the form. Dont learn from this guy...you'll miss out on good stuff.
I've practiced Wing Chun from William Cheung's style, but my Sifu had studied before under Sifu Duncan Leung and he told me this saying that was told to him by Sifu Leung and I've never forgotten it,
"There are only two types of Wing Chun, good Wing Chun and bad Wing Chun."
@Tinhamodic Duncan Leung wasnt refering to William Cheung when he said that saying if thats what ur implying other wise he wouldnt have told the Australian Media that William Cheung beat ten sailors on his way to Australia.
He must have looked up to William Cheung if he said that true.
@MrSinantra No, he wasn't referring to William Cheung, rather I think it was a very neutral response to avert controversy as everyone seems to be opinionated these days in regards to lineage and technique.
@Tinhamodic Unfourtanately that problem seems to seperate all Wing Chun fighters rather then unite them. Which is very sad, we all have sucha great art but perform it in different ways and for that we hate each other... So silly.
I think you are all ridiculous!!! All martial art styles began as an individuals expression of combat! You as the student are encouraged to learn and practice ONLY TO ATTAIN A LEVEL OF KNOWLEDGE! Don't fuss over who dances this way or that way, but rather appreciate that both dance with extraodinary skill! What if you all were to discover YIP MAN altered WING CHUN to suit his needs and that the masters befor him did not approve?!?
Anyone who thinks this is is substandard is on CRACK i challenge any "wing chun" master to fight sifu cheung at 70 yrs old and win, let alone in his prime
What if you are both Wing Chun and you are both facing each other? If you always want to face your opponent and your opponent is a Wing Chun man and he always wants to face you, what position does that leave you in?
Modified Wing Chun states that you face your opponent Centreline to Centreline and fight in the middle. If that is the case why have angles on the Wooden Dummy just face it head on and move into it and back out and back in again. If you fight centreline to centreline you don't need angles because you arent using any. You don't need a young orphan girl to come up with fighting head on. force on force centreline to centreline. She has to avoid force and fight her opponent at an angle.
@cruse9 Where the hell did you hear that we don't use angles? We almost never come right down the middle. We are always shifting and stepping to use angles. We always want to face our opponent, but we don't want him facing us! And we definitely do not fight force with force. I don't know where you got your information from, but either your source is bullshit or you're an idiot. Cheung's is the modified Wing Chun, not ours'
@cruse9 you know what i dont get, if an orphan girl made one system of Wing Chun why did Ip Man learn two different styles of wing chun from Chan Wah Shun and then Leung Jan. Would that mean that someone possibly altered the style already ?. Or maybe a girl didnt make it and someone else did or the group of kung fu masters before maybe finished it. Just wondering about others opinions on the topic.
@MrSinantra Chan Wah Shun modified his system that he was teaching his sons after he noticed a man spying on his training. He called the man down to train with them but this man began to surpass his kids. The footwork and some hand movements among other things were altered so his sons would have an edge over others. He continued to train the man but at the end of the day he would continue his sons training indoors. Yip Man found the "full" system later on in his training... lucky guy;-)
So Cheung sees the whole Wing Chun system then decides he will create a parrallel version he then makes the weight distribution 50/50 for better balance and co-ordination steps on the balls of the feet and avoids fighting force with force. Fights his opponent at an angle the same angles the Wooden Dummy provides. Or Perhaps the earliest Wing Chun has better balance and footwork and perhaps Cheung is telling the truth.
SOMEONE did teach Cheung YIP MAN. WHILST LIVING UNDER THE SAME ROOF.
Not disputed by Yip Chun Yip Mans son. Yip Chun debates the length of time Cheung Claims not that he stayed With Yip Man. How can you make up Sil Lim tao Chum Kiu Wooden Dummy and Bil Jee swords pole and Chi Sao if you have never seen all of it. How? imagine you don't know any Wing Chun and have a go at creating from scratch things you have never seen before how close would you get. Same length similar movements and sections?
If Lee started Wing Chun aged 13. And Cheung had already been practising for sometime Cheung must have started earlier than 13 years old. Either 12 11 or 10 yrs of age. Cheung remembers it as 10yrs old. He would probably know having lived it. But even if it is 11 yrs old or 12yrs old it still makes his start time 1951 or 1952. I don't remember much about exact dates of doing things when I was 12. Do you? Who cares he started before Lee and you can work out what Lee knew in Wing Chun.
Bruce Lee and William Cheung are born in the same year 1940. Seperated by months. Bruce started Wing Chun aged thirteen in 1953. How can Lee be introduced to Yip Man aged 13 by Cheung if Cheung hadn't started Wing Chun until 15 years of age in 1955. Lee would be senior to Cheung by 2 years which wasn't the case Cheung being senior. And we know from the JKD students that Cheung was Lee's senior and role model in Wing Chun it is accepted historical fact.
Will somebody just challenge this nigga already. He offered it. Why didn't WSL challenge him? Boztepe fucked up and tried to do it before the seminar. It's kinda understandble that Cheung wanted to wait till after the seminar in case the shit hit the fan and he would have to flee for legal reasons. Challenge this nigga now so we can all know!!! Who else has challenged this nigga?
"Did he change over the years"? Maybe a little. But he definitely never taught THAT. If he did, at least some of Ip Man students would know it, or back Cheung up on his claims, but NONE of them do.
"Who care"? I will tell you who cares. Anyone interested in learning actual Wing Chun as Ip Man really taught it cares. It's a question of "truth in advertising", & that is NOT Chum Kiu.
Oh, and why do you think Ip Man recorded that footage in the first place? Why? Why did he do it? Hmmmm......why would an aging Wing Chun master record himself doing his forms...
We actually don't have to ponder this question much. He did it so people would know the difference between real Ip Man Wing Chun & counterfeit bullshit pretending to be Ip Man Wing Chun. He did it so we would know that when Cheung says "This is Ip Man Wing Chun Chum Kiu", we would know he's lying.
its no secret that ip man did make several changes to wng chun over the years and i have been to HK recenty and there is a master there who teaches the sme wing chun style as cheung hi is a few years older then cheung too so.. Please dont for get cheung was the first person to tech wing chun out side of china at at the time it was not aloud to be taught on the out side so it is a very stong posibility that chung was exfommunicated form ipmans school for doing so '
Lots of people know. And those people all say Cheung's a liar. Look up "William Cheung" on Wikipedia, go to "External Links", & click on "VTAA Statement".
There you will find a public statement by 13 of Ip's students. These are people who know the real story because they were there. Included are Wong Shun Leung & both of Ip's sons. They ALL say Cheung's completely full of shit.
What's more likely...that ALL of them are lying or that ONLY Cheung is lying?
@WingChunLover2 Go to Australia? Pfff what R you sugesting hahah he is a faker and if you dont see that, then you really have no knowledge of the whole WC thing. Like Nephronial said go check it out, watch some footage, check a sparring against a amateur boxer here on youtube. The man is full of shit. And why would I wait till he s dead hahah you think im afraid of this man whahah
@WingChunLover2 whahah you r truely hilarious...R you really serious. i would kill him...Really i would. BTW he s an old man last time I saw a video of Boztep giving him a beatdown. Where was the Wing Chun and did you see that sparring with the amateur hahah Damn You better watch real fighters, maybe it will change your mind. Check out. Lyotto Machida, Anderson SIlva, Fedor, Mauricio Hua, Bas Rutten and even they lost fights...damn and you talk about William Cheung whahahah
@minasz Sounds like you need to get out more, and stop being an armchair fighter.
None of those names mean anything to me. I saw Boztep take an unwilling figter to the ground, and then not much else in that edited tape. I have also seen people sucker punch others at the beach, and saw a guy throw a glass of water on Tom Cruise, and videos of people being taking out by snipers. So? Post a video of yourself beating up Cheung and I will bow before you, or STFU.
@WingChunLover2 Well if you dont know these fighters than I know enough. And fight with boztep was hilarious. Me posting a video, well i have some videos on my channel. I do fights in ring MMA. Dont tell me that ringfights have rules and blabla..hahah why do you think they have rules?? I will not beat an old man or even a man who can not fight. He s hilarious and he has a lot of you WCkids fooled over the years.
In most cases you're right...who cares who taught who what? But that question presumes SOMEONE taught Cheung, & that the issues is WHO taught him.
But that's not the issue at all. No one questions that Cheung learned some WC at Ip Man's school. The problem is that he only learned a little bit, made up the rest, and says he was secretly taught.
It'd be like if I took pre-med for 3 years, forged a diploma, declared myself an MD & founded a hospital.
@Nephronial The difference is that the whole wing chun system can be learned in 3 years, especially if you are living with the master. I believe Cheung, Duncan Leung, and Bruce Lee's accounts, and I discard all those losers that never got out of Hong Kong and just want to steal Ip Man's legacy for money.
A.) The 6 forms could be learned in 3 years, but even then you still need a sifu.
B.) Cheung never lived with Ip Man. Cheung SAYS he did, but EVERYONE else who was around at the time says he didn't. There's also ZERO evidence of any sort that supports Cheung's claim that he lived with Ip Man.
C. "All those losers"? You mean ALL of Ip Man's other students? Dude, Cheung is the one with the "Chosen-One" story. HE is the lying sleazbag capitalizing on Ip Man's name.
@Nephronial A) He studied for more than 3 years. B) Yeah, but noone else has any proof either. Yip Man didn't keep records. Liang Ting cut off his head and put it next to Yip Man to prove he lived with him, but he didn't.
C) Mostly the ones in Hong Kong of the Liang Ting sort. The ones that took control of the Yip Man corperation after he died. The ones that trained in the 60s.
The ones that showed up in the mid 60s, and said Papa, give me your secrets, even though I am over 40 now.
Cheung started at ~age 14-15. He moved to Austrailia at 18. That's 3-4 years. His classmates describe his attendance as "intermittent".
Leung Ting is a scum too. His pic is a fake, but at least he actually teaches real WC (as taught to him by Ip Man's student Leung Sheung) and not a bunch of stuff he made up himself.
I assume you're talking smack about his sons. Ip Ching did WC up until the age of 12 & resumed in '62. He trained for 10 years. Thats alot more than Cheung.
@Nephronial If Cheung started so late, then Bruce Lee cound not have more than 2-3 years of training before he went to the USA, and that makes less sense. We all have seen Bruce Lee, and there are many films of William Cheung available over the years, but far less of these other guys. Throughout history people have been prosecuted by a group of jeolous do-nothings. I tend to favor William Cheung until proved otherwise.
@Nephronial Also, Bruce Lee came to America, Duncan Leung also, and William Cheung went to Australia. How could they have succeeded with a sham? In China, it is easy to screw people with secrets and such. I don't think people in USA and Australia would put up with crap.
@Nephronial And. VTAA was established in 1967 by some of those people that I mentioned. What possible record would they have of William Cheung? Yip Man had gambling and drug issues, but he somehow kept records? Bull!
Very different this TWC. Just to let you guys think. William 1st form comes close to Ip Man version. But the rest is totally different. Why only the 1st form? ;-)
Seems like many people forget or don't know about Chinese culture. The number 108 is very important in martial art (many styles has 108 movements in their forms). Why does William forms has way more movements, except the 1st? Most Ip Man forms has 108 or can be combined to 108.
Because the first form is the only one he was actually taught.
He moved to Australia at age 18 before he learned the whole system, but he wanted to sell himself as a "Great Master", so he had to make up the rest of the system himself. To cover his ass, he made up a story about how his kung fu looks different because he alone was taught "secret kung fu".
Unfortunately for Nephronial, none of this is going away. Williams claim that he learnt both the Modified and Traditional Wing Chun from Yip Man and that everyone else only learnt the Modified is still there. You cannot change recorded history. And you cannot prove it didn't happened as claimed. And no one has to prove it to you because we don't need you. Feel very thankful that you want to save us from ourselves. That is why you do it... isn't it?
"...you cannot prove it didn't happened as claimed."
You can't prove unicorns don't exist.
Here's how it works: Since Cheung's story is so outlandish, YOU have to prove it DID happen. Show me a picture of Cheung training when he was 10 or 11, or a pic of his living area at Ip Man's house, or 3rd party corroboration from someone referencing "that kid living with Ip Man", or SOMETHING that in any way verifies Cheungs story. You can't, because it doesn't exist.
I bet Spazzy Willy didnt expect Ip to record his WC before he died, nor did Spazzy Willy foresee the widespread distribution of Ip's footage. If he had, he might not have lied about being the sole inheritor of "secret", "traditional" WC.
Willy's a lying puke. I feel sorry for his students who got sucked into his world before finding out what his deal is.
@Nephronial Back in he 60s and 70s, it was much easier to get away with bullshit in the martial arts world because there were very few resources for people to check into. You just had to trust your sifu or sensei. Now it's much easier to learn about history, lineages, and so forth thanks to the web. And as you said, I don't think Cheung expected Ip Man to film himself doing all the forms. One sure sign about Cheung's lying it that he never once does any shifting here which is so important.
Youre right on all points. Especially since Cheung moved to Australia...how could the Aussies check his claims? It would've been nigh impossible for them to do so. And its worth remembering that Cheung didn't start publicly saying all his bullshit about "Traditional WC" & "secret training" until after Ip Man was safely dead & buried.
Maybe he was going out of his way to play up the fact that he knew Lee so as to make himself more marketable. He also likes to preach about how HE taught Lee...how HE was Lee's primary instructor. Everyone outside Cheung's circle knows that's not true. Lee's main instructor was Wong Shun Leung. Spazzy Willy lies and lies and lies. A truly horrible, sleezy person.
William Cheung went to Australia, Bruce Lee went to USA, Duncan Leung USA, Hawkins Cheung USA. I really don't see your point. To suggest that only the guys who stayed in Hong Kong know something. Yip Man was himself from the mainland. Does that mean he did something wrong by taking the art out of China?
If Ip Man did indeed teach William as his best closed door student, why was it Wong that Ip Man let represent his whole reputation... publically, in Beimo! Its the guys on here clutching at straws, that in their heart, know something is wrong here. Its those that speak nothing, silently smiling, that know whats right. But please enjoy art for what it is. From Melbourne, Australia.
Only Yip Man truely knows who he taught and how much he taught. It is safe to say he didn't share that information with Nephronial before he passed away. Nor I suspect would Yip have recorded a list of tenants back in the fifties for Nephronials approval in 2010. Perhaps you should ask William if you are so interested in the apartments he has lived in. None of this is important. It is miss direction because there is enough value in the verifyable facts to check out Cheung's Wing Chun.
"..there is enough value in the verifyable facts to check out Cheung's Wing Chun"
Where? Show me a link to ANYTHING besides talk from Cheung or his students that backs up Cheung's goofy "Chosen One" story. Bet ya cant!
Lots of people know who & what Ip Man taught. Like Wong Shun Leung, Tsui Sheung Tin, Ip Ching & Ip Chun. Many of them are still alive and they've publicly refuted Cheung's dishonest claims.
Whats likelier, that ALL of them are lying, or that ONLY Cheung is lying?
A Historical fact would be that William Cheung was Bruce Lees senior in Wing Chun. The evidence to support the claim is printed in the Bruce Lee library series and in video interviews with JKD people who have an interest in Bruce's history and no particular bias in Wing Chun. Dan Inosanto has been recorded many times in print and on video verifying Bruces connection to Cheung. It is veryfiable from more than one source and has been documented and presented as an accepted historical fact.
Historical facts have to be supported by evidence and as you have none Nephronial using the words historical facts is about as much use as a Chocolate fire guard.
Also, wanna tell u guys a best way to support urselves. Who doesnt believe Cheung, just book a ticket to Melbourne, Australia to meet and check him out. Or who supports Mr.Cheung just give guys not believing him some $ to fly to Melb to verify Cheung's system. Just my own opinion!
Dun know why u guys just set up non-sense arguments here. Who has evidences surely show that Cheung lies and doesnt lie. Just PM and show it off to each other. Public arguments seem so meaningless. ...LOL!
You mention William learned a little bit as a teenager. Could you be more specific. Bruce Lees Wing Chun is documented as Sil Lim Tao , Chum Kil and sixty Wooden Dummy techniques as well as Chi Sao of course. His knowledge in Wing Chun was less than Wong Shun Leungs and William Cheungs according to Dan Inosanto both Leung and Cheung were Bruce's seniors. Historical Fact.
Ip Man never taught a watered-down, "modified" version of Wing Chun.
Cheung never finished the entire curriculum. He moved to Australia before he learned all the forms.
Think otherwise? Prove it. Cheung says he lived in Ip Mans house for years. There ought to be some kind of evidence. There ought to be SOMETHING proving Cheung's live-in status. Like a pic of his area in Ip's house, or them eating dinner, or SOMETHING.
William calls it Traditional Wing Chun. It has a Sil lim Tao Chum Kiu Wooden Dummy and Bil Jee forms. It has Chi Sao and trapping. It protects the Centreline with the guard in the middle. It uses Pak Sao's Lap Sao's and Simultaneous attack and defense. None of that sounds like a discription of Judo does it? He not only met Yip Man but trained with him long enough to introduce Bruce Lee and Victor Kan to Yip.
William lies. He learned a little bit from Ip Man when he was a teenager, and made up the rest. Is that "traditional"? No. Anyone could do that. The guys a liar, and his claims insult not only his ex-kung fu brothers, but his teacher as well.
It amazes me that anyone can believe this guy...but then again plenty of people believe in L. Ron Hubbard's Scientology.
Don't dis master Hubbard as well! You say learnt a bit from Yip Man then made up the rest. I agree that would not be Traditional. It also never happened like that so pointless to discuss. Cheung lived with Yip Man between 1955 and 58. But this is all pointless. Cheung will not go away he is part of Wing Chun like it or not. Spend More time looking at the versions of Wing Chun and less debating its history that you cannot prove one way or the other.
I don't care whether it works or not. Could be the most effective shit ever. It's not, (Boztepe kicked his ass for chrissakes!) but even if it was, it doesn't change the fact that Cheung's a liar.
Know what's dishonorable? Lying to your students about what you're teaching & where it came from. Insulting your kung fu brothers by claiming you're better than them. Implying that your sifu deliberately ripped off ALL his other students & trained them wrong on purpose.
You want to see WC as Ip Man ACTUALLY taught it? There's plenty of people online who are what they claim to be, and are good at what they do.
Ip Ching, Gary Lam, Tsui Sheung Tin and Jose Grados are a few people who are the real deal. They are good, and I have respect for them and what they do. It's easy to respect people who AREN'T lying con-men. They're a few of the good guys.
@kwstantine sure, it cannot be like what GGM Ip did coz this is NOT what Ip Man taught! Mr.Cheung learned this from Red Flag Secret Society when having been in HK about 1950s. Google Hung Fa Yi Wing Chun you will see that this style is so similar to what Mr.Cheung's teaching. I had a chance to learn from Cheung's school as well as Wong Shun Leung style and I have a chance to compare those two. Absolutely different and GM Wong's style, for me, is taught so thoroughly and it's much more effective!
I spar with martial artists of various schools. But wtf does that prove. I once had a Cheung instructor come to my class and ask to chi sao with me. He got pissy because he couldn't get through, so he tried to break stick and attack me other ways. The whole thing ended with me on top of him slapping him like a bitch. That is what tends to happen when you 'dong sao' people
Cheung is shit, not because of what he does in class but because of what he says in class. You are echoing that.
Yes, because... prove what? That he is crap? That he is a liar? That he is an average martial artist? I don't need to do that, Bozteppi did that for me. Case closed
Yeah, ok. I kind of agree with you. "Enough talk, put your money where your mouth is" and all that. I get that.
BUT...
It's one thing to be "all bark and no bite" in real life, in front of a real person. That's chicken$!t behavior no doubt. But this IS youtube. The videos were put up so people could watch and comment. Nothin wrong with callin it like ya see it in this context.
AND Cheung IS a lying con. If these comments cause 1 person to not get suckered by him, then it is a good thing.
REAL fighters will make up their own mind on whether a sifu is good for their growth or not. Obviously Cheung is good for many people.... me being one of them.... because what he teaches works. I don't play the "Wing CHun Family Game" that most people do. I look at all Wing Chun and try to learn as much as possible... good or bad. I personally find Cheung style to be good..... but I find others to be good as well. hence why I say... hands not mouth ;)
So it doesn't bother you at all that he's lying when he says he teaches "real, unmodified" WC, when in fact he only learned a little bit & made up the rest himself?
You have no problem with that at all?
I dont care if hes the baddest guy of all time...there's plenty of REAL WC guys (who didnt get their asses kicked by a punk like Boztepe) who can train you just as well and arent lying, dishonorable con-men. Why not learn from a Wong Shun Leung or Ip Ching school, for instance?
One other thing, when you say stuff like "I don't play the "Wing CHun Family Game" or "I look at all Wing Chun and try to learn as much as possible... good or bad", that's a good attitude. Wong Shun Leung had a different take on WC than Moy Yat for instance.
BUT
Cheung is NOT part of the group. He learned a bit of WC and made up the rest. What Cheung teaches is NOT WC. It's William Cheung Kung Fu. Dont insult Ip Man and the rest of us by claiming were part of the same line - we are not.
So you know all this to be fact? or are you... like most... just spouting out what your sifu said? Did you train with Cheung? Did you train with Ip Man? I doubt it. Don't be a drone.... look for the good and you'll find it. I find good in opening myself up to Cheung style... as well as other styles. I have no hate and I don't believe everything I hear. The proof is in the doing... not the talking. Ciao.
How do I know? The same way I know Scientology is bs. Cheung's story is ridiculous and completely absurd. I don't have to personally meet L. Ron Hubbard or William Cheung to know that they're lying con-men.
everyone loses... even to "punks". And no.... I don't care. I don't pester my mind with if he's telling the truth or not. I only concern myself with what I can gain. I always try my best to look for the positive. That's how I learn. If I were close minded and judgemental I wouldn't train with ANY wing chun sifu. But I'm not... therefore I open myself to ALL styles and expressions of wing chun. Thanks :)
"... therefore I open myself to ALL styles and expressions of wing chun."
Again, what William Cheung does is NOT WC...it's something he made up. If you like it, cool, but please stop running around speaking as if Cheung teaches Ip Man Wing Chun. He teaches William Cheung Style Kung Fu.
If you're truly open, and believe Cheungs story, you should check out Ashida Kim. You'd probably love him. Hes a REAL ninja - he says so, just like Cheung knows "real" WC.
one more lesson i wanna teach u dude, one of Cheung instructor, maybe (i wish u were not a lying doggy) lost for u, it doesnt mean all Cheung instructors will surely lose for u, doggy dummy dudie lol =))
Make that three Cheung instructors. But you're right just because three people representing him lost to a pretty average martial artist (me), doesn't mean anything obviously...
Cheung is obviously invincible. Oh no wait, didn't he lose to some Turkish guy? Hehe
I have no love or hate for Emin... but I bet you'd never call him a punk to his face. care to man up? Or are you just another cyber sifu? Anyway... this is VERY rare for me to take part in an internet debate and I'm going to stop here. Enjoy your kung fu travels.
I've met Boztepe, & can tell you: He does come off as a thug and a bully...like he's just waiting for you to say or do something so he can KICK SOME ASS! Not a nice guy.
That being said,
the key differences between Cheung & Boztepe are:
1. Cheung lies about his training, and where his kung fu comes from. Boztepe does not.
Cheung did lose. No argument there, but from that fight it would certainly be hard to distinguish who had the better Wing Chun :)
I don't know much about Cheung. He may all the things you say he is, and if so fuck him. My general comment was meant to point out that people criticize each other's WC all the time simply because it looks a little different from their own version. I've found this weird because I've never seen two WC masters from different lineages look alike on every point.
one thing to remember vingtun should be learned and taught in its purest form and any personal touches should be kept from passing on to the students. once the pure system is taught allow each vingtsun student to express there kung fu there own way this is the beauty of vingtsun.
What I find funny is that all martial arts, if you want to believe it or not, is based off interpretation, what it does for the student so he add his own spin on it, Good for him I say, Shaolin monks from the monastery watched animals and developed their own way from it. hell wing chun is a Mixture of Snake and Crane Kung fu if you can't see that then you must be blind. Its not fake if it works, you can call your kung fu style Dog Shit on a Stick it wont make a difference if it works.
How can anyone delude themselves into thinking this guy is anything but a total liar? You can see Yip Man doing Chum Kiu on youtube, and it not only looks different, but Spazzy Willy apparently has no idea what the principles behind the movements are. (the forms are not so much collections of techniques as demonstration of more fundamental principles, like yiu ma for ex.)
Its an insult to the character of Ip Man to suggest he taught EVERYONE else wrong on purpose except for a newbie teenager.
Regardless of whether Cheung invented those changes himself or not, his system is simply BETTER than Leung Ting's system and most of mainstream 'Wing Tsun.' Regardless of whether you believe him or not about his system being the 'real, secret version of Wing Chun', it is more effective and dynamic and applicable to real fighting than the pigeon-toed, backward-leaning mainstream Wing Chun which is being practiced throughout most of Europe and North America.
i remember that! thats what happens when you try to market your kung fu. just look at how people react to these videos. real kung fu guys are humble since they know there are others like them out there.
According to Yip Chun, Cheung live under his fathers roof for a year and a half, a shorter time than Cheung stated, but an admission by a family member as to connection between Yip and Cheung. Did they spend their free time playing chess or perhaps Wing Chun. What would you do if you lived with a Grandmaster?
This is a train wreck. He's doing moves from street fighter more than chum kiu. Also the chop is just wrong, far too much blind power. But it is hilarious to watch and provides light entertainment
The negative comments on this site don't take into account that people can judge for them selves what they are seeing. Make a case for your opinion or run the risk of appearing ignorant!!!
what kind of comment is that lung ting & Boztepe are better than yip man. you are a clown with that mentality you obviously couldnt fight your way out of paper bag.
Billy the Goose is a fake, always was always will be. I liar has to tell 2 to cover, 4 to cover 2, 8 to cover 4 etc., A genuine Master would not be put in a position to be ambushed and put on the ground by a thug. I rest my case!
WC haters dont get something. when you fight in an organised competition WC will never be used to its full effect. You cant hit soft tissue, you cant thrust at the eyes or points along the neck. you cant palmstrike because of RULES in place. with a platform like that the most conditioned fighter will win (eg thai or boxer). when your art is almost totally dependant on attacking weak points (good thing in a real situation) It is never going to translate well in a competiton environment.
Look, I am a basic self defense instructor for years and did several styles,Hapkido,Taekwondo,Jeet Kune Do under Dan Inosanto. Mazza DOES know his stuff. He is VERY experienced and well versed in martial arts. I have known him for more than 5 years, he DID modified for 10 years! Religiously..and he is SMART and loves to fight..so what the HELL would make him choose TWC? It would have to be superior in method right? OF COURSE! Wake up people.
everyone believes their style to be superior to all others, EVERYONE. why else would anyone in the world do any kind of style when they knew they could be easily beaten by another?
Sifu Mazza is a excellent teacher, he taught my sifu who is a very well trained fighter, trust me! There are many great fighters in this style of wing chun. Hopefully, one day, we will get over this ignorance of which style is better. Because, if this style is so fake, then why is it so practical in fighting situations, as I have found out on many occasions. Please all have a blessed life with better overstanding.
Here's someth'g to consider.MOST students in M.Arts R Not There to fight in ring. They're there to defend themselves in streets.Train'g for RING is an entire diff. train'g regimen. Yes, a Boxer,or any fighter who's use to be'g hit & fightn'g in RING will win in sett'g.This is why such fighters should analyze WC & discover what they could be doing in Ring if they spent as much time in this sys!
We have students in WC you can meet at seminars who have been apart of this & other systems; THEY have switched over; NOT L.TING OR BOZTEPE! Is it true that you don't practice DRILLS & ony Free Fight? I hope not! If this is the case, I'll have to go into my Neurorehab dissertation support'g this. Come Visit Master Mazza, let him explain W.Cheung TWC to you in person!
Leung ting and emin boztepe switched to the cheung system? This is news to me, why would they switch systems to learn from a sifu that they can already beat? Because the didn't.
I never said Leung ting and emin switched! Yeung became a student of GMCheung, He's the President of the Wing Chun Chin Woo Association, head of over 11 WC styles, etc.. Master Mazza respects all forms of WC, however, as he relates, if there were any better, he would have been doing it!
nfo provided by Master Redmond:It's common knowledge Sigung (W.Cheung)lived in Yip Man's home 31/2 yr&this was after he studied for4 years before.This can be proven w/writings of Bruce Lee's family & my other Sifus.Also, I personally heard from Sifu Dunca Leung that Ah Hing was best fighter; & Sifu Victor Parlati said Moy Yat said same thing.End:Anyone interested in copy of pdf Wong Shun Lenug & his Friendship w/Bruce Lee give me email add;W.Cheung referred to in strict Mandarin name of Chang!
I train with Sifu Kieth Mazza as well as Sifu Louis DiLoreto. Both of them did Modified Wing Chun (also called Wing Tsun) for many years before training in the Traditional style. I can tell you from first hand experience that William Cheung's Traditional Wing Chun is superior to Yeung's Modified Wing Chun.
That's why Yeung is a student of GMCheung now! That's why so many guys from other systems, including Leung Ting and Boztepe have been and are making the switch. It's really cool at a seminar also, as these guys demonstrate the differences for you & the diff. become obvious; howeve,r whatever one is into; if it wrks for them, Fine!
come on now mitch, both you and I know that emin and leung are not making any kind of switch. i'll be with emin on sat and sun this week though, just in case theres half a chance that im wrong, but im not.
They don't necessarily need to make a switch. If they are great at what they do, that's fine. As I said before, it's the skill level one is at in their respective art. I just feel, & accordiing to Master Mazza he KNOWS, TWC has built in advantages over the other styles. However, his attitude is, whatever you feel you can use!
Those mak'g critiques have demonstrated a need to get to the Wing Chun Kwoon and learn what it is they don't know that they don't know and stop embarrassing themselves. Your critques are an admission as to your lack of knowledge!
If "shut the fuck up" is the best your brain can do...well, it speaks for itself. Seriously, I'm just hoping to offer some sound and mature advice. Thoughts like that do not draw the picture of a serious or experienced martial artist (or someone over 21 for that matter). honestly, I hope whatever you do, it benefits growth from where you are right now. Just trying to help you out, man. Peace and best you.
All you guys sound like losers and children, NOT martial artists. You would think this was the Bloods vs. the Crips. A SERIOUS martial artist would never waste his or her time criticizing another man's art. Especially when it was doing others some good. If you were serious about your art, you wouldn't be wasting your time worrying about what others do. You'd be training.
I wish Willam Cheung would of just been honest and not make up lies like that Yip Man 'only' taught him the 'true' traditional wing chun. He has really caused alot of debate over his lies. His Chum Kiu is clearly modified, not traditional! How does he expect people to believe that?
Patchirox 3 days ago
William Cheung is a scam, you guys wanna know why?
cheungswingchuntruth dot blogspot dot com/
Iraqendwar 3 months ago 2
@Iraqendwar Youre right. I read that blog, very interesting.
Patchirox 3 days ago in playlist Chum Kiu
I think that Wing Chun was developed by a group of people probably in the sourthern Shoalin Temple. I do believe that there are a number of different versions floating around because some people have always known more than others. However it doesn't stop the ones that arent very good teachers passing on what they know to students that are very dedicated and wont hear a bad word spoken about their less than authentic/effective version.
scenario4 5 months ago
This shouldn't be called "Chum Kiu". 1 of the main points of CK is to learn how to shift your balance around on the balance base & how to torque the waist. He's got none of that. Completely missing the points of the form. Dont learn from this guy...you'll miss out on good stuff.
ClassicalWCMaster 8 months ago
I've practiced Wing Chun from William Cheung's style, but my Sifu had studied before under Sifu Duncan Leung and he told me this saying that was told to him by Sifu Leung and I've never forgotten it,
"There are only two types of Wing Chun, good Wing Chun and bad Wing Chun."
Tinhamodic 9 months ago
@Tinhamodic Duncan Leung wasnt refering to William Cheung when he said that saying if thats what ur implying other wise he wouldnt have told the Australian Media that William Cheung beat ten sailors on his way to Australia.
He must have looked up to William Cheung if he said that true.
MrSinantra 6 months ago
@MrSinantra No, he wasn't referring to William Cheung, rather I think it was a very neutral response to avert controversy as everyone seems to be opinionated these days in regards to lineage and technique.
Tinhamodic 6 months ago
@Tinhamodic Unfourtanately that problem seems to seperate all Wing Chun fighters rather then unite them. Which is very sad, we all have sucha great art but perform it in different ways and for that we hate each other... So silly.
MrSinantra 6 months ago
I think you are all ridiculous!!! All martial art styles began as an individuals expression of combat! You as the student are encouraged to learn and practice ONLY TO ATTAIN A LEVEL OF KNOWLEDGE! Don't fuss over who dances this way or that way, but rather appreciate that both dance with extraodinary skill! What if you all were to discover YIP MAN altered WING CHUN to suit his needs and that the masters befor him did not approve?!?
STANTONABOC 10 months ago
Anyone who thinks this is is substandard is on CRACK i challenge any "wing chun" master to fight sifu cheung at 70 yrs old and win, let alone in his prime
wilsonnee1 10 months ago
If you ALMOST never come down the middle, why is it so important to have your guard defending the centreline?
cruse9 11 months ago
What if you are both Wing Chun and you are both facing each other? If you always want to face your opponent and your opponent is a Wing Chun man and he always wants to face you, what position does that leave you in?
cruse9 11 months ago
i want YIP MAN i dont care who this is
vote up if your thinking the same thing
paperfol 11 months ago
Modified Wing Chun states that you face your opponent Centreline to Centreline and fight in the middle. If that is the case why have angles on the Wooden Dummy just face it head on and move into it and back out and back in again. If you fight centreline to centreline you don't need angles because you arent using any. You don't need a young orphan girl to come up with fighting head on. force on force centreline to centreline. She has to avoid force and fight her opponent at an angle.
cruse9 1 year ago
@cruse9 Where the hell did you hear that we don't use angles? We almost never come right down the middle. We are always shifting and stepping to use angles. We always want to face our opponent, but we don't want him facing us! And we definitely do not fight force with force. I don't know where you got your information from, but either your source is bullshit or you're an idiot. Cheung's is the modified Wing Chun, not ours'
hulkout666 11 months ago
@cruse9 you know what i dont get, if an orphan girl made one system of Wing Chun why did Ip Man learn two different styles of wing chun from Chan Wah Shun and then Leung Jan. Would that mean that someone possibly altered the style already ?. Or maybe a girl didnt make it and someone else did or the group of kung fu masters before maybe finished it. Just wondering about others opinions on the topic.
MrSinantra 6 months ago
@MrSinantra Chan Wah Shun modified his system that he was teaching his sons after he noticed a man spying on his training. He called the man down to train with them but this man began to surpass his kids. The footwork and some hand movements among other things were altered so his sons would have an edge over others. He continued to train the man but at the end of the day he would continue his sons training indoors. Yip Man found the "full" system later on in his training... lucky guy;-)
stickeehandz 3 months ago in playlist wing chun
So Cheung sees the whole Wing Chun system then decides he will create a parrallel version he then makes the weight distribution 50/50 for better balance and co-ordination steps on the balls of the feet and avoids fighting force with force. Fights his opponent at an angle the same angles the Wooden Dummy provides. Or Perhaps the earliest Wing Chun has better balance and footwork and perhaps Cheung is telling the truth.
cruse9 1 year ago
SOMEONE did teach Cheung YIP MAN. WHILST LIVING UNDER THE SAME ROOF.
Not disputed by Yip Chun Yip Mans son. Yip Chun debates the length of time Cheung Claims not that he stayed With Yip Man. How can you make up Sil Lim tao Chum Kiu Wooden Dummy and Bil Jee swords pole and Chi Sao if you have never seen all of it. How? imagine you don't know any Wing Chun and have a go at creating from scratch things you have never seen before how close would you get. Same length similar movements and sections?
cruse9 1 year ago
If Lee started Wing Chun aged 13. And Cheung had already been practising for sometime Cheung must have started earlier than 13 years old. Either 12 11 or 10 yrs of age. Cheung remembers it as 10yrs old. He would probably know having lived it. But even if it is 11 yrs old or 12yrs old it still makes his start time 1951 or 1952. I don't remember much about exact dates of doing things when I was 12. Do you? Who cares he started before Lee and you can work out what Lee knew in Wing Chun.
cruse9 1 year ago
Bruce Lee and William Cheung are born in the same year 1940. Seperated by months. Bruce started Wing Chun aged thirteen in 1953. How can Lee be introduced to Yip Man aged 13 by Cheung if Cheung hadn't started Wing Chun until 15 years of age in 1955. Lee would be senior to Cheung by 2 years which wasn't the case Cheung being senior. And we know from the JKD students that Cheung was Lee's senior and role model in Wing Chun it is accepted historical fact.
cruse9 1 year ago
Will somebody just challenge this nigga already. He offered it. Why didn't WSL challenge him? Boztepe fucked up and tried to do it before the seminar. It's kinda understandble that Cheung wanted to wait till after the seminar in case the shit hit the fan and he would have to flee for legal reasons. Challenge this nigga now so we can all know!!! Who else has challenged this nigga?
judutchinski 1 year ago
this form is completely wrong, not pure at all and deffinatly not one from the yip man system
IloveMartialArts1 1 year ago
Ip Man made a film in the 70s, William Cheung was taught in the 50s, and this film is from the 80s.
Was Ip Man's film modified wing chun, did he change over the years? Did William Cheung change over the years?
You can't learn from film. Who cares!
WingChunLover2 1 year ago
@WingChunLover2
"Was Ip Man's film modified wing chun"? No.
"Did he change over the years"? Maybe a little. But he definitely never taught THAT. If he did, at least some of Ip Man students would know it, or back Cheung up on his claims, but NONE of them do.
"Who care"? I will tell you who cares. Anyone interested in learning actual Wing Chun as Ip Man really taught it cares. It's a question of "truth in advertising", & that is NOT Chum Kiu.
TwoGunGunnar 1 year ago
@WingChunLover2
Oh, and why do you think Ip Man recorded that footage in the first place? Why? Why did he do it? Hmmmm......why would an aging Wing Chun master record himself doing his forms...
We actually don't have to ponder this question much. He did it so people would know the difference between real Ip Man Wing Chun & counterfeit bullshit pretending to be Ip Man Wing Chun. He did it so we would know that when Cheung says "This is Ip Man Wing Chun Chum Kiu", we would know he's lying.
TwoGunGunnar 1 year ago
its no secret that ip man did make several changes to wng chun over the years and i have been to HK recenty and there is a master there who teaches the sme wing chun style as cheung hi is a few years older then cheung too so.. Please dont for get cheung was the first person to tech wing chun out side of china at at the time it was not aloud to be taught on the out side so it is a very stong posibility that chung was exfommunicated form ipmans school for doing so '
MrJasonBkn 1 year ago
@waza8u
Lots of people know. And those people all say Cheung's a liar. Look up "William Cheung" on Wikipedia, go to "External Links", & click on "VTAA Statement".
There you will find a public statement by 13 of Ip's students. These are people who know the real story because they were there. Included are Wong Shun Leung & both of Ip's sons. They ALL say Cheung's completely full of shit.
What's more likely...that ALL of them are lying or that ONLY Cheung is lying?
Nephronial 1 year ago
@Nephronial This Cheung is a faker big time. Ive watched some videos and this man really cant fight.
minasz 1 year ago
@minasz You are free to go to Australia and tell him that. However, I suspect you will wait until he is dead and continue to bad mouth him.
WingChunLover2 1 year ago
@WingChunLover2 Go to Australia? Pfff what R you sugesting hahah he is a faker and if you dont see that, then you really have no knowledge of the whole WC thing. Like Nephronial said go check it out, watch some footage, check a sparring against a amateur boxer here on youtube. The man is full of shit. And why would I wait till he s dead hahah you think im afraid of this man whahah
minasz 1 year ago
@minasz Well, you can be a man and challenge him, or you can sit on your ass and be a film critic. The choice is yours.
WingChunLover2 1 year ago
@WingChunLover2 whahah you r truely hilarious...R you really serious. i would kill him...Really i would. BTW he s an old man last time I saw a video of Boztep giving him a beatdown. Where was the Wing Chun and did you see that sparring with the amateur hahah Damn You better watch real fighters, maybe it will change your mind. Check out. Lyotto Machida, Anderson SIlva, Fedor, Mauricio Hua, Bas Rutten and even they lost fights...damn and you talk about William Cheung whahahah
minasz 1 year ago
@minasz Sounds like you need to get out more, and stop being an armchair fighter.
None of those names mean anything to me. I saw Boztep take an unwilling figter to the ground, and then not much else in that edited tape. I have also seen people sucker punch others at the beach, and saw a guy throw a glass of water on Tom Cruise, and videos of people being taking out by snipers. So? Post a video of yourself beating up Cheung and I will bow before you, or STFU.
WingChunLover2 1 year ago
@WingChunLover2 Well if you dont know these fighters than I know enough. And fight with boztep was hilarious. Me posting a video, well i have some videos on my channel. I do fights in ring MMA. Dont tell me that ringfights have rules and blabla..hahah why do you think they have rules?? I will not beat an old man or even a man who can not fight. He s hilarious and he has a lot of you WCkids fooled over the years.
minasz 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@WingChunLover2
"I suspect you will wait until he is dead and continue to bad mouth him."
Just like how Cheung waited until Ip Man was dead, then started bad mouthing him!
Nephronial 1 year ago
@waza8u
In most cases you're right...who cares who taught who what? But that question presumes SOMEONE taught Cheung, & that the issues is WHO taught him.
But that's not the issue at all. No one questions that Cheung learned some WC at Ip Man's school. The problem is that he only learned a little bit, made up the rest, and says he was secretly taught.
It'd be like if I took pre-med for 3 years, forged a diploma, declared myself an MD & founded a hospital.
Nephronial 1 year ago
@Nephronial The difference is that the whole wing chun system can be learned in 3 years, especially if you are living with the master. I believe Cheung, Duncan Leung, and Bruce Lee's accounts, and I discard all those losers that never got out of Hong Kong and just want to steal Ip Man's legacy for money.
WingChunLover2 1 year ago
@WingChunLover2
A.) The 6 forms could be learned in 3 years, but even then you still need a sifu.
B.) Cheung never lived with Ip Man. Cheung SAYS he did, but EVERYONE else who was around at the time says he didn't. There's also ZERO evidence of any sort that supports Cheung's claim that he lived with Ip Man.
C. "All those losers"? You mean ALL of Ip Man's other students? Dude, Cheung is the one with the "Chosen-One" story. HE is the lying sleazbag capitalizing on Ip Man's name.
Nephronial 1 year ago
@Nephronial A) He studied for more than 3 years. B) Yeah, but noone else has any proof either. Yip Man didn't keep records. Liang Ting cut off his head and put it next to Yip Man to prove he lived with him, but he didn't.
C) Mostly the ones in Hong Kong of the Liang Ting sort. The ones that took control of the Yip Man corperation after he died. The ones that trained in the 60s.
The ones that showed up in the mid 60s, and said Papa, give me your secrets, even though I am over 40 now.
WingChunLover2 1 year ago
@WingChunLover2
Cheung started at ~age 14-15. He moved to Austrailia at 18. That's 3-4 years. His classmates describe his attendance as "intermittent".
Leung Ting is a scum too. His pic is a fake, but at least he actually teaches real WC (as taught to him by Ip Man's student Leung Sheung) and not a bunch of stuff he made up himself.
I assume you're talking smack about his sons. Ip Ching did WC up until the age of 12 & resumed in '62. He trained for 10 years. Thats alot more than Cheung.
Nephronial 1 year ago
@Nephronial If Cheung started so late, then Bruce Lee cound not have more than 2-3 years of training before he went to the USA, and that makes less sense. We all have seen Bruce Lee, and there are many films of William Cheung available over the years, but far less of these other guys. Throughout history people have been prosecuted by a group of jeolous do-nothings. I tend to favor William Cheung until proved otherwise.
WingChunLover2 1 year ago
@WingChunLover2
Oh, and yes, there are records. The VTAA has them. They have a website. Contact them and ask.
Nephronial 1 year ago
@Nephronial Also, Bruce Lee came to America, Duncan Leung also, and William Cheung went to Australia. How could they have succeeded with a sham? In China, it is easy to screw people with secrets and such. I don't think people in USA and Australia would put up with crap.
WingChunLover2 1 year ago
@Nephronial And. VTAA was established in 1967 by some of those people that I mentioned. What possible record would they have of William Cheung? Yip Man had gambling and drug issues, but he somehow kept records? Bull!
WingChunLover2 1 year ago
Very different this TWC. Just to let you guys think. William 1st form comes close to Ip Man version. But the rest is totally different. Why only the 1st form? ;-)
Seems like many people forget or don't know about Chinese culture. The number 108 is very important in martial art (many styles has 108 movements in their forms). Why does William forms has way more movements, except the 1st? Most Ip Man forms has 108 or can be combined to 108.
eternalspring247 1 year ago
@eternalspring247
Because the first form is the only one he was actually taught.
He moved to Australia at age 18 before he learned the whole system, but he wanted to sell himself as a "Great Master", so he had to make up the rest of the system himself. To cover his ass, he made up a story about how his kung fu looks different because he alone was taught "secret kung fu".
Nephronial 1 year ago
Unfortunately for Nephronial, none of this is going away. Williams claim that he learnt both the Modified and Traditional Wing Chun from Yip Man and that everyone else only learnt the Modified is still there. You cannot change recorded history. And you cannot prove it didn't happened as claimed. And no one has to prove it to you because we don't need you. Feel very thankful that you want to save us from ourselves. That is why you do it... isn't it?
cruse9 1 year ago
@cruse9
"...you cannot prove it didn't happened as claimed."
You can't prove unicorns don't exist.
Here's how it works: Since Cheung's story is so outlandish, YOU have to prove it DID happen. Show me a picture of Cheung training when he was 10 or 11, or a pic of his living area at Ip Man's house, or 3rd party corroboration from someone referencing "that kid living with Ip Man", or SOMETHING that in any way verifies Cheungs story. You can't, because it doesn't exist.
Nephronial 1 year ago
Compare this to Ip Man's CK. TOTALLY different.
I bet Spazzy Willy didnt expect Ip to record his WC before he died, nor did Spazzy Willy foresee the widespread distribution of Ip's footage. If he had, he might not have lied about being the sole inheritor of "secret", "traditional" WC.
Willy's a lying puke. I feel sorry for his students who got sucked into his world before finding out what his deal is.
Nephronial 1 year ago
@Nephronial
couldnt agree more!!
gstartube 1 year ago
@Nephronial Back in he 60s and 70s, it was much easier to get away with bullshit in the martial arts world because there were very few resources for people to check into. You just had to trust your sifu or sensei. Now it's much easier to learn about history, lineages, and so forth thanks to the web. And as you said, I don't think Cheung expected Ip Man to film himself doing all the forms. One sure sign about Cheung's lying it that he never once does any shifting here which is so important.
hulkout666 1 year ago
@hulkout666
Youre right on all points. Especially since Cheung moved to Australia...how could the Aussies check his claims? It would've been nigh impossible for them to do so. And its worth remembering that Cheung didn't start publicly saying all his bullshit about "Traditional WC" & "secret training" until after Ip Man was safely dead & buried.
Nephronial 1 year ago
Very very different.... =S
Zazquatch1 1 year ago
Bruce Lee was a slightly lower student than William Cheung (maybe he started 3 months or 1 year later).
But even William Cheung has stated that 'pound for pound Bruce was the best fighter in the world'.
Maybe he was just being nice.
rikirikado 1 year ago
@rikirikado
Maybe he was going out of his way to play up the fact that he knew Lee so as to make himself more marketable. He also likes to preach about how HE taught Lee...how HE was Lee's primary instructor. Everyone outside Cheung's circle knows that's not true. Lee's main instructor was Wong Shun Leung. Spazzy Willy lies and lies and lies. A truly horrible, sleezy person.
Nephronial 1 year ago
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rikirikado 1 year ago
William Cheung went to Australia, Bruce Lee went to USA, Duncan Leung USA, Hawkins Cheung USA. I really don't see your point. To suggest that only the guys who stayed in Hong Kong know something. Yip Man was himself from the mainland. Does that mean he did something wrong by taking the art out of China?
rikirikado 1 year ago
If Ip Man did indeed teach William as his best closed door student, why was it Wong that Ip Man let represent his whole reputation... publically, in Beimo! Its the guys on here clutching at straws, that in their heart, know something is wrong here. Its those that speak nothing, silently smiling, that know whats right. But please enjoy art for what it is. From Melbourne, Australia.
MrSoulSong 2 years ago
Only Yip Man truely knows who he taught and how much he taught. It is safe to say he didn't share that information with Nephronial before he passed away. Nor I suspect would Yip have recorded a list of tenants back in the fifties for Nephronials approval in 2010. Perhaps you should ask William if you are so interested in the apartments he has lived in. None of this is important. It is miss direction because there is enough value in the verifyable facts to check out Cheung's Wing Chun.
cruse9 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@cruse9
"..there is enough value in the verifyable facts to check out Cheung's Wing Chun"
Where? Show me a link to ANYTHING besides talk from Cheung or his students that backs up Cheung's goofy "Chosen One" story. Bet ya cant!
Lots of people know who & what Ip Man taught. Like Wong Shun Leung, Tsui Sheung Tin, Ip Ching & Ip Chun. Many of them are still alive and they've publicly refuted Cheung's dishonest claims.
Whats likelier, that ALL of them are lying, or that ONLY Cheung is lying?
Nephronial 1 year ago
A Historical fact would be that William Cheung was Bruce Lees senior in Wing Chun. The evidence to support the claim is printed in the Bruce Lee library series and in video interviews with JKD people who have an interest in Bruce's history and no particular bias in Wing Chun. Dan Inosanto has been recorded many times in print and on video verifying Bruces connection to Cheung. It is veryfiable from more than one source and has been documented and presented as an accepted historical fact.
cruse9 2 years ago
Historical facts have to be supported by evidence and as you have none Nephronial using the words historical facts is about as much use as a Chocolate fire guard.
cruse9 2 years ago
please guys william chung was a live in student of yip man for 3 years and it was yip man who changes the original froms
MrJasonBkn 2 years ago
Also, wanna tell u guys a best way to support urselves. Who doesnt believe Cheung, just book a ticket to Melbourne, Australia to meet and check him out. Or who supports Mr.Cheung just give guys not believing him some $ to fly to Melb to verify Cheung's system. Just my own opinion!
gameofdeath4288 2 years ago
Dun know why u guys just set up non-sense arguments here. Who has evidences surely show that Cheung lies and doesnt lie. Just PM and show it off to each other. Public arguments seem so meaningless. ...LOL!
gameofdeath4288 2 years ago
You mention William learned a little bit as a teenager. Could you be more specific. Bruce Lees Wing Chun is documented as Sil Lim Tao , Chum Kil and sixty Wooden Dummy techniques as well as Chi Sao of course. His knowledge in Wing Chun was less than Wong Shun Leungs and William Cheungs according to Dan Inosanto both Leung and Cheung were Bruce's seniors. Historical Fact.
cruse9 2 years ago
Some other historical facts:
Cheung never lived with Ip Man.
Ip Man never taught a watered-down, "modified" version of Wing Chun.
Cheung never finished the entire curriculum. He moved to Australia before he learned all the forms.
Think otherwise? Prove it. Cheung says he lived in Ip Mans house for years. There ought to be some kind of evidence. There ought to be SOMETHING proving Cheung's live-in status. Like a pic of his area in Ip's house, or them eating dinner, or SOMETHING.
Nephronial 2 years ago
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henkbana 2 years ago
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henkbana 2 years ago
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henkbana 2 years ago
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henkbana 2 years ago
William calls it Traditional Wing Chun. It has a Sil lim Tao Chum Kiu Wooden Dummy and Bil Jee forms. It has Chi Sao and trapping. It protects the Centreline with the guard in the middle. It uses Pak Sao's Lap Sao's and Simultaneous attack and defense. None of that sounds like a discription of Judo does it? He not only met Yip Man but trained with him long enough to introduce Bruce Lee and Victor Kan to Yip.
cruse9 2 years ago
"William calls it Traditional Wing Chun"
William lies. He learned a little bit from Ip Man when he was a teenager, and made up the rest. Is that "traditional"? No. Anyone could do that. The guys a liar, and his claims insult not only his ex-kung fu brothers, but his teacher as well.
It amazes me that anyone can believe this guy...but then again plenty of people believe in L. Ron Hubbard's Scientology.
Nephronial 2 years ago
Don't dis master Hubbard as well! You say learnt a bit from Yip Man then made up the rest. I agree that would not be Traditional. It also never happened like that so pointless to discuss. Cheung lived with Yip Man between 1955 and 58. But this is all pointless. Cheung will not go away he is part of Wing Chun like it or not. Spend More time looking at the versions of Wing Chun and less debating its history that you cannot prove one way or the other.
cruse9 2 years ago
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justech05 2 years ago
I don't care whether it works or not. Could be the most effective shit ever. It's not, (Boztepe kicked his ass for chrissakes!) but even if it was, it doesn't change the fact that Cheung's a liar.
Know what's dishonorable? Lying to your students about what you're teaching & where it came from. Insulting your kung fu brothers by claiming you're better than them. Implying that your sifu deliberately ripped off ALL his other students & trained them wrong on purpose.
CHEUNG has no honor.
Nephronial 2 years ago
You want to see WC as Ip Man ACTUALLY taught it? There's plenty of people online who are what they claim to be, and are good at what they do.
Ip Ching, Gary Lam, Tsui Sheung Tin and Jose Grados are a few people who are the real deal. They are good, and I have respect for them and what they do. It's easy to respect people who AREN'T lying con-men. They're a few of the good guys.
Nephronial 2 years ago
this is not the form like the one that Gmaster IP MAN is doing
kwstantine 3 years ago 8
Even Ip Man does not know it
chisaucat 2 years ago
@kwstantine sure, it cannot be like what GGM Ip did coz this is NOT what Ip Man taught! Mr.Cheung learned this from Red Flag Secret Society when having been in HK about 1950s. Google Hung Fa Yi Wing Chun you will see that this style is so similar to what Mr.Cheung's teaching. I had a chance to learn from Cheung's school as well as Wong Shun Leung style and I have a chance to compare those two. Absolutely different and GM Wong's style, for me, is taught so thoroughly and it's much more effective!
gameofdeath4288 1 year ago
@gameofdeath4288 Well what can i say brother,Gm Cheung class always say:we are the one true wing chun
and i think that this is very bad think....
i am also now learning some Wong Shun Leung wing chun,it is more powerfull but more heavy stance.
kwstantine 1 year ago
Hey cyber sifu's.... go challenge a Cheung school to a sparring match instead of running your mouths. Ever heard of "Mo Gong Kau, Gong Sau"?
syracusema 3 years ago
I spar with martial artists of various schools. But wtf does that prove. I once had a Cheung instructor come to my class and ask to chi sao with me. He got pissy because he couldn't get through, so he tried to break stick and attack me other ways. The whole thing ended with me on top of him slapping him like a bitch. That is what tends to happen when you 'dong sao' people
Cheung is shit, not because of what he does in class but because of what he says in class. You are echoing that.
KungFuKing166 3 years ago
me saying go prove it is shit? ok... whatever you say. Enjoy.
darzik 3 years ago
Yes, because... prove what? That he is crap? That he is a liar? That he is an average martial artist? I don't need to do that, Bozteppi did that for me. Case closed
KungFuKing166 3 years ago
Yeah, ok. I kind of agree with you. "Enough talk, put your money where your mouth is" and all that. I get that.
BUT...
It's one thing to be "all bark and no bite" in real life, in front of a real person. That's chicken$!t behavior no doubt. But this IS youtube. The videos were put up so people could watch and comment. Nothin wrong with callin it like ya see it in this context.
AND Cheung IS a lying con. If these comments cause 1 person to not get suckered by him, then it is a good thing.
Nephronial 2 years ago
REAL fighters will make up their own mind on whether a sifu is good for their growth or not. Obviously Cheung is good for many people.... me being one of them.... because what he teaches works. I don't play the "Wing CHun Family Game" that most people do. I look at all Wing Chun and try to learn as much as possible... good or bad. I personally find Cheung style to be good..... but I find others to be good as well. hence why I say... hands not mouth ;)
darzik 2 years ago
I'd like to add this as well...... so many cyber sifu on youtube... ain't it great! LMAO
darzik 2 years ago
So it doesn't bother you at all that he's lying when he says he teaches "real, unmodified" WC, when in fact he only learned a little bit & made up the rest himself?
You have no problem with that at all?
I dont care if hes the baddest guy of all time...there's plenty of REAL WC guys (who didnt get their asses kicked by a punk like Boztepe) who can train you just as well and arent lying, dishonorable con-men. Why not learn from a Wong Shun Leung or Ip Ching school, for instance?
Nephronial 2 years ago
One other thing, when you say stuff like "I don't play the "Wing CHun Family Game" or "I look at all Wing Chun and try to learn as much as possible... good or bad", that's a good attitude. Wong Shun Leung had a different take on WC than Moy Yat for instance.
BUT
Cheung is NOT part of the group. He learned a bit of WC and made up the rest. What Cheung teaches is NOT WC. It's William Cheung Kung Fu. Dont insult Ip Man and the rest of us by claiming were part of the same line - we are not.
Nephronial 2 years ago
So you know all this to be fact? or are you... like most... just spouting out what your sifu said? Did you train with Cheung? Did you train with Ip Man? I doubt it. Don't be a drone.... look for the good and you'll find it. I find good in opening myself up to Cheung style... as well as other styles. I have no hate and I don't believe everything I hear. The proof is in the doing... not the talking. Ciao.
darzik 2 years ago
How do I know? The same way I know Scientology is bs. Cheung's story is ridiculous and completely absurd. I don't have to personally meet L. Ron Hubbard or William Cheung to know that they're lying con-men.
Nephronial 2 years ago
everyone loses... even to "punks". And no.... I don't care. I don't pester my mind with if he's telling the truth or not. I only concern myself with what I can gain. I always try my best to look for the positive. That's how I learn. If I were close minded and judgemental I wouldn't train with ANY wing chun sifu. But I'm not... therefore I open myself to ALL styles and expressions of wing chun. Thanks :)
darzik 2 years ago
"... therefore I open myself to ALL styles and expressions of wing chun."
Again, what William Cheung does is NOT WC...it's something he made up. If you like it, cool, but please stop running around speaking as if Cheung teaches Ip Man Wing Chun. He teaches William Cheung Style Kung Fu.
If you're truly open, and believe Cheungs story, you should check out Ashida Kim. You'd probably love him. Hes a REAL ninja - he says so, just like Cheung knows "real" WC.
Nephronial 2 years ago
Who was the instructor, and from areea does he reside? I'd like to call him.
MikeTWCKF 3 years ago
search wing chun macedonia on youtube
cakule 3 years ago
Any reason why?
KungFuKing166 3 years ago
to see wtf chisao drills
cakule 3 years ago
Cakule had a point and we just keen to see if you're a real deal, btw to back up your claims did you tape them?
justech05 2 years ago
one more lesson i wanna teach u dude, one of Cheung instructor, maybe (i wish u were not a lying doggy) lost for u, it doesnt mean all Cheung instructors will surely lose for u, doggy dummy dudie lol =))
gameofdeath4288 2 years ago
Make that three Cheung instructors. But you're right just because three people representing him lost to a pretty average martial artist (me), doesn't mean anything obviously...
Cheung is obviously invincible. Oh no wait, didn't he lose to some Turkish guy? Hehe
KungFuKing166 2 years ago
Not only did he lose, he lost HARD. To a Turkish thug who was far from anything resembling a WC master. Cheung lost to a street thug. A punk.
Nephronial 2 years ago
I have no love or hate for Emin... but I bet you'd never call him a punk to his face. care to man up? Or are you just another cyber sifu? Anyway... this is VERY rare for me to take part in an internet debate and I'm going to stop here. Enjoy your kung fu travels.
darzik 2 years ago
@darzik I don't know if Emin is a punk or a thug. I do know that he didn't use a lick of WT in his fight with Cheung.
Emin's WC looks no better nor worse in demonstrations than Cheung.
Godsmasher22 2 years ago
I've met Boztepe, & can tell you: He does come off as a thug and a bully...like he's just waiting for you to say or do something so he can KICK SOME ASS! Not a nice guy.
That being said,
the key differences between Cheung & Boztepe are:
1. Cheung lies about his training, and where his kung fu comes from. Boztepe does not.
2. Cheung lost.
Nephronial 2 years ago
Cheung did lose. No argument there, but from that fight it would certainly be hard to distinguish who had the better Wing Chun :)
I don't know much about Cheung. He may all the things you say he is, and if so fuck him. My general comment was meant to point out that people criticize each other's WC all the time simply because it looks a little different from their own version. I've found this weird because I've never seen two WC masters from different lineages look alike on every point.
Godsmasher22 2 years ago
one thing to remember vingtun should be learned and taught in its purest form and any personal touches should be kept from passing on to the students. once the pure system is taught allow each vingtsun student to express there kung fu there own way this is the beauty of vingtsun.
This is not chum kiu in pure form!
vingtsunking 3 years ago
What I find funny is that all martial arts, if you want to believe it or not, is based off interpretation, what it does for the student so he add his own spin on it, Good for him I say, Shaolin monks from the monastery watched animals and developed their own way from it. hell wing chun is a Mixture of Snake and Crane Kung fu if you can't see that then you must be blind. Its not fake if it works, you can call your kung fu style Dog Shit on a Stick it wont make a difference if it works.
clfguardian 3 years ago
How can anyone delude themselves into thinking this guy is anything but a total liar? You can see Yip Man doing Chum Kiu on youtube, and it not only looks different, but Spazzy Willy apparently has no idea what the principles behind the movements are. (the forms are not so much collections of techniques as demonstration of more fundamental principles, like yiu ma for ex.)
Its an insult to the character of Ip Man to suggest he taught EVERYONE else wrong on purpose except for a newbie teenager.
Nephronial 3 years ago 2
I agree
alexmobile 3 years ago
exactly.
synkronyk 2 years ago
Regardless of whether Cheung invented those changes himself or not, his system is simply BETTER than Leung Ting's system and most of mainstream 'Wing Tsun.' Regardless of whether you believe him or not about his system being the 'real, secret version of Wing Chun', it is more effective and dynamic and applicable to real fighting than the pigeon-toed, backward-leaning mainstream Wing Chun which is being practiced throughout most of Europe and North America.
TimRedfern 3 years ago
HAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA Yeah, that's why he got his ass kicked by a student of Leung Ting's.
phoenixavenger 3 years ago 2
i remember that! thats what happens when you try to market your kung fu. just look at how people react to these videos. real kung fu guys are humble since they know there are others like them out there.
OPVELEZ 3 years ago
True, but that student didn't use any Wing Chun in that fight. So maybe both their systems suck.
Godsmasher22 2 years ago
What are the differences?
kelly980 3 years ago
@TimRedfern WT certainly produces a lot of slop.
Godsmasher22 2 years ago
Ohhhh........ another one of William Cheungs made up Wing Chun forms
Admles 3 years ago 2
According to Yip Chun, Cheung live under his fathers roof for a year and a half, a shorter time than Cheung stated, but an admission by a family member as to connection between Yip and Cheung. Did they spend their free time playing chess or perhaps Wing Chun. What would you do if you lived with a Grandmaster?
cruse9 3 years ago
you mean like his sons? Hmm....what DO they do? :) Certainly not that.
phoenixavenger 3 years ago
this is not chum kiu
the man makes several changes
i don´t believe in Willian Cheung.
I respect: wong shun leung, ip chun, leung ting, ip ching.
willian Cheung is a fake to me
is something like this: "... this is my wing chun, with my changes"
mpeterson007 3 years ago 2
This is a train wreck. He's doing moves from street fighter more than chum kiu. Also the chop is just wrong, far too much blind power. But it is hilarious to watch and provides light entertainment
evaunit14 3 years ago 2
william chuengs forms are very fun to watch. its interesting how he moves. although its nothing like ive ever learned
gurojon 3 years ago
Yip Man changed the forms slightly over the years, but I know he never taught it like that. What's up with the Po Pei towards the end of the form?
gosoku2 4 years ago
how do you know that?
kempobrad 3 years ago
@gosoku2 Hawkin's does it pretty much the same way.
Godsmasher22 2 years ago
I like this vidio ... I know I like like it cause I keep coming back to it and watching it over and over
hiddenmantis 4 years ago
The negative comments on this site don't take into account that people can judge for them selves what they are seeing. Make a case for your opinion or run the risk of appearing ignorant!!!
cruse9 4 years ago
Fraud.
tjfnee88 4 years ago
this is an embaressment. a product of crap! all he knows how to do is talk. should do marketing instead of WC
VisionCommenter 4 years ago
Do you know anything about the style?
mrsmilo 4 years ago
what kind of comment is that lung ting & Boztepe are better than yip man. you are a clown with that mentality you obviously couldnt fight your way out of paper bag.
dangermouseoo1 4 years ago
there is something wrong with this guys style. what linage is he from?
illyong 4 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
there are only two sifus doing the corect wt.leung ting and ....emin boztepe.beter than yip man.hahaha
xxxsotosxxx 4 years ago
wtf is wrong with you
nirpal24 4 years ago
nirpal24 wtf is wrong with you isn't very constructive. Please give us something more to go on.
cruse9 4 years ago
Billy the Goose is a fake, always was always will be. I liar has to tell 2 to cover, 4 to cover 2, 8 to cover 4 etc., A genuine Master would not be put in a position to be ambushed and put on the ground by a thug. I rest my case!
samesdifd 4 years ago
WC haters dont get something. when you fight in an organised competition WC will never be used to its full effect. You cant hit soft tissue, you cant thrust at the eyes or points along the neck. you cant palmstrike because of RULES in place. with a platform like that the most conditioned fighter will win (eg thai or boxer). when your art is almost totally dependant on attacking weak points (good thing in a real situation) It is never going to translate well in a competiton environment.
rangerscoach 5 years ago
Look, I am a basic self defense instructor for years and did several styles,Hapkido,Taekwondo,Jeet Kune Do under Dan Inosanto. Mazza DOES know his stuff. He is VERY experienced and well versed in martial arts. I have known him for more than 5 years, he DID modified for 10 years! Religiously..and he is SMART and loves to fight..so what the HELL would make him choose TWC? It would have to be superior in method right? OF COURSE! Wake up people.
kevme 5 years ago
everyone believes their style to be superior to all others, EVERYONE. why else would anyone in the world do any kind of style when they knew they could be easily beaten by another?
Theundies2 5 years ago
Sifu Mazza is a excellent teacher, he taught my sifu who is a very well trained fighter, trust me! There are many great fighters in this style of wing chun. Hopefully, one day, we will get over this ignorance of which style is better. Because, if this style is so fake, then why is it so practical in fighting situations, as I have found out on many occasions. Please all have a blessed life with better overstanding.
taocircle 4 years ago
For the most of you I offer a 10mm round to the skull. I prefer 10mm as it is a little more 'exotic' and that kind of thing really impresses chicks.
ScruffyRanger 5 years ago
Emin Boztepe is a cunt
kaiser9884 5 years ago 3
yup
dudtonNE 5 years ago 3
Here's someth'g to consider.MOST students in M.Arts R Not There to fight in ring. They're there to defend themselves in streets.Train'g for RING is an entire diff. train'g regimen. Yes, a Boxer,or any fighter who's use to be'g hit & fightn'g in RING will win in sett'g.This is why such fighters should analyze WC & discover what they could be doing in Ring if they spent as much time in this sys!
FITGREATGUY 5 years ago
We have students in WC you can meet at seminars who have been apart of this & other systems; THEY have switched over; NOT L.TING OR BOZTEPE! Is it true that you don't practice DRILLS & ony Free Fight? I hope not! If this is the case, I'll have to go into my Neurorehab dissertation support'g this. Come Visit Master Mazza, let him explain W.Cheung TWC to you in person!
FITGREATGUY 5 years ago
Leung ting and emin boztepe switched to the cheung system? This is news to me, why would they switch systems to learn from a sifu that they can already beat? Because the didn't.
marktsi 5 years ago
I never said Leung ting and emin switched! Yeung became a student of GMCheung, He's the President of the Wing Chun Chin Woo Association, head of over 11 WC styles, etc.. Master Mazza respects all forms of WC, however, as he relates, if there were any better, he would have been doing it!
FITGREATGUY 5 years ago
"That's why so many guys from other systems, including Leung Ting and Boztepe have been and are making the switch." what does this mean then?
marktsi 5 years ago
nfo provided by Master Redmond:It's common knowledge Sigung (W.Cheung)lived in Yip Man's home 31/2 yr&this was after he studied for4 years before.This can be proven w/writings of Bruce Lee's family & my other Sifus.Also, I personally heard from Sifu Dunca Leung that Ah Hing was best fighter; & Sifu Victor Parlati said Moy Yat said same thing.End:Anyone interested in copy of pdf Wong Shun Lenug & his Friendship w/Bruce Lee give me email add;W.Cheung referred to in strict Mandarin name of Chang!
FITGREATGUY 5 years ago
BTW, for those who don't know, Ah Hing is William Cheung
FITGREATGUY 5 years ago
I train with Sifu Kieth Mazza as well as Sifu Louis DiLoreto. Both of them did Modified Wing Chun (also called Wing Tsun) for many years before training in the Traditional style. I can tell you from first hand experience that William Cheung's Traditional Wing Chun is superior to Yeung's Modified Wing Chun.
Sorinphyre 5 years ago
Yeung, the President of the Wing Chun Chin Woo Association switched and is now a student of Grandmaster Cheung!
FITGREATGUY 5 years ago
That's why Yeung is a student of GMCheung now! That's why so many guys from other systems, including Leung Ting and Boztepe have been and are making the switch. It's really cool at a seminar also, as these guys demonstrate the differences for you & the diff. become obvious; howeve,r whatever one is into; if it wrks for them, Fine!
FITGREATGUY 5 years ago
come on now mitch, both you and I know that emin and leung are not making any kind of switch. i'll be with emin on sat and sun this week though, just in case theres half a chance that im wrong, but im not.
OhUKnow31 5 years ago
They don't necessarily need to make a switch. If they are great at what they do, that's fine. As I said before, it's the skill level one is at in their respective art. I just feel, & accordiing to Master Mazza he KNOWS, TWC has built in advantages over the other styles. However, his attitude is, whatever you feel you can use!
FITGREATGUY 5 years ago
well we'll see what redmond has to say about that
Theundies2 5 years ago
funny variation,
horst38 5 years ago
Those mak'g critiques have demonstrated a need to get to the Wing Chun Kwoon and learn what it is they don't know that they don't know and stop embarrassing themselves. Your critques are an admission as to your lack of knowledge!
FITGREATGUY 5 years ago
aand what does that statement say about you? wow, then shut the fuck up
Theundies2 5 years ago
If "shut the fuck up" is the best your brain can do...well, it speaks for itself. Seriously, I'm just hoping to offer some sound and mature advice. Thoughts like that do not draw the picture of a serious or experienced martial artist (or someone over 21 for that matter). honestly, I hope whatever you do, it benefits growth from where you are right now. Just trying to help you out, man. Peace and best you.
KiCreativeStudios 5 years ago
All you guys sound like losers and children, NOT martial artists. You would think this was the Bloods vs. the Crips. A SERIOUS martial artist would never waste his or her time criticizing another man's art. Especially when it was doing others some good. If you were serious about your art, you wouldn't be wasting your time worrying about what others do. You'd be training.
KiCreativeStudios 5 years ago
You are right and thanks for a good lesson from someone I perceive to be a geuniune martial artists as shown by your statement!
FITGREATGUY 5 years ago