So, everyone, tell this bimbo that you believe that you should Baptize infants and see what he says. In fact tell him that you have baptized as many children as you can find in your swimming pool, in the name of the Father, Son, Holy Spirit, so as not to take a chance. See what he says.
Cherrypicking example :- stoning adulterers and disobediant children to death, working on the sabbeth, killing non-believers etc etc. Evolution defines our morals and as humans we refine those moral standards. If you believe in the death sentance, you are by ANY standards IMMORAL!
So I can rape, murder and steal all my life as long as I believe in god and keep saying sorry then I go to Heaven. But if I do NONE of these things I go to Hell. What a great God!!!
rOMANS 6 1What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? 2By no means! We died to sin; how can we live in it any longer? 3Or don't you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.
1 John 3:8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.
So was that a yes or a no? Isn't all sin equal in the eyes of god? Isn't it the same if i cuss using his name or a murder than rape the headless corpse and steal the valuables. As Long as I truely repent and believe in god I will go to heaven. However if i never kill or rape or steal BUT do NOT believe in god i go to hell
All sin is not equal, but sin is sin. It ultimately represents a separation from the Lord. The point of the whole Old Testament is that Man can not help but sin. If we could, Christ would not have had to come and sacrifice himself for us.
so how is the punishment from god is different for murder and blastphemy? Or rape and adulterey (did'nt jesus say just thinking about a woman sexually was adulterey) will I go to hell for any or all of these things?
There will be degrees of punisment in hell and degrees of rewards in heaven. Here in the bottom line. Not believeing in Jesus in a sin. If you die not believeing in Him you will go to hell. You think that is harsh because you don't understand the excedingly sinfulnes of sin.
Thats's not what I said. Heaven and hell are both eternal. What the bible teaches is this. Hitler and the run of the mill pagan will both be in hell for eternity. The difference will be the punishment they will receive. I don'y completely understand it, but that's what the bible teaches.
So if you don't understand it, you could make a mistake and go to hell when your tried your best to be a good christian! If he wants you to follow the rules wounld'nt it be best if he clearly laid them out, you could end up in hell through no fault of your own, maybe atheists end up in heaven by mistake!!
What I don't understand is the exact punishments given in hell. He very clearly laid out the rules. They are called the 10 commandments. They are writen in His word (Bible) and on our hearts (conscience).
Question: Are you really wanting to know these answers or are you being conducending? I would love to answer any question I can, if you are willing to be open to the answers? i.e. Waht is your mood and motives?
Yes i am serious. I really want to have answers to these questions. These things are at the very heart of my doubt. They do not make sense to me. Its seem to me that depending on who you listen to depends on whether you go to hell or not. Mother Teresa seems a prime heaven candidate yet some would say that catholics don't go to heaven.
Although Mother Teresa seemed like a good person, she still had sin. Romans 3:23 says "For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God". Catholic, Protestant, Baptist...doesn't matter, Jesus Christ is the only one who died for our sins. He is the answer, not religion.
A good judge has to send someone to prison/fine if they break the law. God is a righteous judge, we have all broken his laws, therefore, we must pay the price. The bible says "For by grace are we saved through faith and that not of ourselves, it's a gift of God." Jesus paid our fine so we don't have to get locked up ? Make sense ?
No, it does'nt make sense, because it's possible to sin without knowing one has done so. therefore you can't ask for forgiveness, therefore you could go to hell by default.
You know you have sinned. Many many many times. Just like I have. I may have sinned more than you. I used to be a drug addict. Jesus died to pay for every sin I have commited past, present and future. But I must repent and trust Him in order to be forgiven. You don't have to know every sin, just hta evry sin was paid for.
Ask Paul in the bible. He murder early Christians. He hated them. He want to kill all of them. Then Jesus Christ saved him. He wrote 2/3 of The New Testament. God can forgiven any sin except dieing not repenting and trusting Him as your Lord and Savior. If I tell you some verses to read will you read them?
For you have heard of my former conduct in Judaism, how I persecuted the church of God beyond measure and tried to destroy it. And I advanced in Judaism beyond many of my contemporaries in my own nation, being more exceedingly zealous for the traditions of my fathers.
But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb and called me through His grace, to reveal His Son in me, that I might preach Him among the Gentiles,
Junky that the point i'm trying to get across, under your moral rules i can do whatever i like as long as i truly repent afterward i go to heaven. Where as if lead a good life, hurting nobody but do not believe in god then i go to hell!!!. That is a crazy fucked up viewpoint. The central message in christianity is hate:- believe or spend all eternity burning in hell. To denign this is to denigh god.
There are no good people. That is the point. You say hurting nobody. It's all about how you treat God not people. Nobody deserves heaven. You must be perfect to enter heaven.
If you don't believe in God then you sin. You deny the very one that gave you breath. You shake your fist at your creator. Why should he let you in His heaven.
Thats why religion is in decline all over the world, and is all but extinct in Europe. Your facist views with regard to homosexuals for example are offensive and immoral. How can ANYBODY put an imaginary figure above the importance of a human life?! You and your religion are so out of step you will be the architects of your own demise. Fuck god, fuck jesus, fuck the holy ghost and FUCK YOU!
Wow did I hit a nerve. Isn't it funny that religion is close to extinct in Europe while crime and promiscuity is on the rise. You are accusing me of being offensive?
It is ok talk bad about Christianity, but it is offensive to bad about sinning. What a double standard.
I think you are just angry at the guilt in your own conscience. Don't worry in time it will dull and the worse and worse you will become.
Crime in the USA, the most religous country in the west, far outstrips Europe. There are more murders in New York than there are in the whole of the UK. America has more in prison than the WHOLE of Europe. Think about that! That suggests the Fucked up moral Christian morals in America are causing the problems. You confirmed yourself under Christianity you behave how you like as long as you repent, You regard all sin the same. Murder is no worse than blastphemy in your FUCKED UP WORLD!
Of course you hit a nerve fuckwit. Your entire value system is based on bronze age myth with an equally out dated moral set, and you condemn entire community's. Christian morals are immoral. They laughable thing is you pick and choose what to obey and then judge people on your own selective cherry picking. HOW, AT ANY LEVEL, CAN YOU REGARD YOURSELF OR CHRISTIANS AT LOARGE AS MORAL PEOPLE?.
What is being cherry picked? What morals of Christians are immoral? As a non-Christian, who defined your morals for you? Did you just decide out of thin air what you consider to be immoral/moral?
People derrive their morals from society, thats why what may be considered bad in one place may not be in another. You don't get all your morals from the bible because if you did you would be out there stoning people to death left and right for just working on the sabbeth. Then theres all the other exceptions to the thou shall not kill rule.
If you look at what is regarded as highly moralistic in every society, you'll find the same stuff. It's not ok to murder anyone in any society. Premeditated murder is different than killing, as anyone who has defended his wife and family from an intruder in the middle of the night can attest. Many translations say "thou shalt not murder", not "kill."
Its not ok to murder b/c we have an ability to recognize human life and its value. You ignore the mayans who practiced human sacrifices as well as ignore the studies done on feral children who had no interaction with society and have nothing you would consider morals nor an ability to distinguish b/w right and wrong as well as ignoring case studies done on people born w/o conscience:psychopathy
I guess America, where it's the most religious in west, has it pretty bad then. Kind of funny how the rise in crime and packing of the prisons can be directly correlated to the advent of socialist ideas and the push against religion that started in the 60's and 70's. When you set up a welfare system to encourage single parent houses, what do you expect.
Are you fucking kidding me. I would really like to see these graphs, tables, and data that you are drawing these ludicrous conclusions from. The welfare system doesn't encourage single parent houses, nobody says hey I want to have a baby but fuck splitting the work and having a father/mother. I want to do twice the ammount of work and struggle to be able to provide for my child
Go talk to people who've lived in the projects and gotten out of them, as I have. They'll tell you the welfare system rewards women who don't have a man in the house by giving them more money.
that still does not encourage any woman to leave there husband/father of their child to raise it alone. They certainly aren't getting pregnant to get money, and they arent leaving their husbands because they see big profits coming their way if they do so. Even if they do get money they still must struggle to survive. My mother raised myself and my two siblings as a single mom b/c she had no choice but to leave my father b/c of abuse, not because she was going to get some check from the govnt
Hmm and why is it in decline? Mat 24:12 And because sin shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. You can keep your pornos, alcohol, drugs or whatever else you love in your world. See if losing your soul was worth any of it when death comes. And you know it will sooner or later.
DayfallKat, I think they would represent that none of the people in the video are Christians. The phrase, "The harvest is ready" points pretty clearly to this.
True. I should never have used Christians to identify that group of people. I should have used a more descriptive term for those that believe in Heven and Hell, Jesus and sins, and God and the devil.
When I went out to interview people I was willing to take everyone, in fact I was hoping that I'd get some atheists /Buddhists/non-Christians. One of the people on the video is a Mormon, one is a non-Christian. I just asked whoever was willing to be interviewed. What would you say you are?
I would say I am an atheist. Actually, I am an atheist. I grew up a Christian and was one until about 10 years ago. I was a fundamentalist. I remember very well going around asking the same questions. "Do you believe in Jesus?" "Do you follow all of his teachings everyday?" But, once I realized that other people had just a strong of a faith in other religions as I did in mine, I began to consider their reasons and mentality. Questioning is a bad thing for false religions.
They may have very very strong faith in some other religion but they have very very weak proof of believeing it. I would go so far as to say none of these interviews were christians. You may have grown up in a christan home, but it don't sound like you were a christian. Read my post above above what I believe as a christian and see if it lines up with what you believed.
And you have strong proof for yours? Still, proof wasn't the issue, we both agree they have no proof. The disturbing fact was that they have a very strong belief while having no proof.
At one time I easaly met your requirements for being a "true" Christian. I would also add "The strong urgency to show people their sin and to show them God's love for them anyways" and "The humility in knowing that you are not worthy to be saved, and still accept the sacrifice made for you."
"follow all of his teachings everyday" is where you messed up. Youre looking at it as how hard you work; not as faith, but as religion. There's a huge difference. I live in NYC and see what youre talking about every day; and every one of these "strong believers" of other religions are just working for heaven.
I don't believe they are working to get to heaven. I wasn't. I was doing it because moderate Christianity makes no sence. Like the "God Hates Fags" people. They arn't doing it for brownie points. They are really trying to make people think that being gay is a sin and should not be tolerated any more than murder.
DayfallKat: Sure, they're working for Heaven. Ask any Muslim how he knows he's going to paradise. None can be certain, they just have to do enough good, and hope that Allah shows them mercy. I'm not being hateful or biased, it's based from the Quran. The same attitude is true of a LOT of christians too. I mean, a lot of them. But its not biblical.
I am not talking about Muslims (which do work to get into Heaven) nor all the Christians that think that doing good is enough.
Back to the point, plese. I accepted Jesus' sacrifice for my sins and tried to follow his teachings. Later I recognized the Bible stories as fables and it was all up hill from there. Ex-Christian. You ought to try it.
i did try it. i didnt become a christian until i was 19. i live in the most liberal area of the world--NYC-- i didnt grow up surrounded by christians and wasnt brought up in the church.
There's a difference between accepting something and believing something, theres a difference between believing something and having faith in something. There's a difference between asking forgiveness and repenting.
youre right... homosexuality shouldnt be tolerated more than murder. stealing bubble gum shouldnt be tolerated more than murder either. the idea of one sin being worse than another is a human concept, not based on God or the bible.
Of course, God and the Bible stories are human concepts as well.
Saying that stealing bubble gum can be equated in any way to murder is lunacy (but still Biblical). Tonight, I am going to give my boyfirend a big kiss just for you!
but also i do want to add, that even if you WERE a christian, doesnt mean you always will be. that "once saved, always saved" stuff isnt biblical. I assume maybe you were a christian, realized you were gay, and so rejected christianity because it says homosexuality is a sin.
But go ahead and give your b/f a kiss. I dont agree with homosexuality, but that doesnt mean I hate homosexuals!
Alot of Christians I have talked to disagree. And actually I realized I was bi after I dropped Christianity. I strongly believed in no sex before marriage, but me and my girlfriend liked to run around naked. The church group called us sinners and prayed for us. I was preached to like the people I used to do it to.
Yes sir, gota ask people what they think about Eternity cause we are dead alot longer than we are alive so its only wise to reflect on a place you'll be forever! JC4Life
Prv3:5 Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.
Mat12:35 A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things.
Mat12:36 But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.
Mat12:37 For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.
Atheists have killed more people by the millions in shorter spans of time than Christianity ever did in totality. If Voltaire had lived to see how the abandonment of God affected the world, he'd be choking on his own words. Ex: Hitler, Mao Zedong, Stalin, Kim Jong Il. Christianity has done more good for the world than atheism ever did.
You can't include Hitler in that list. That man employed every tool he could to justify his attrocities. I'm not saying he was a christian, but he sure did use a lot of christian propaganda to justify his actions.
You are right, I stand corrected. I get confused sometimes between the utter dejected soul and mind chilling hopelessness that is atheism, and the woe and monumental depravity caused by militaristic dictatorial regimes. In the next comment I'll correct the example. Thanks for the correction! :)
Leaders of dictatorial regimes attempting to leverage their "declared" Christianity to justify the wholesale slaughter of innocents and wanton abandonment of all morality, thereby poisoning millions of peoples minds to the Truth of Jesus Christ = perhaps 100's of millions of deaths
That is my hot button. People claiming to serve god and leading others to the slaughter. They are on TV. They own networks. They are in our government. We reward them with fame and fortune.
This is what I'd really like to see you make a movie on.
For the record, this is not a comment on George Bush, nor is it an attempt to start a thread on him. Personally, I believe our reasons for going to war in Iraq were justified. I also don't believe he played the Christianity card in laying out the reasons for it. Just my 2 cents, and again, not an invitation to bash the President. Let's make this commentary about Christianity, and not about current politics please.
Ugghhh. I should have known we'd go down this path. I didn't want to start a thread on it because I get enough talking politics at work. :) I was really just replying to the Voltaire comment, as a counterpoint to dead French politician quotes. As far as cowering, there's no fear here. Just more exciting things (like Christ) to talk about than tired old discussions about current events in D.C.
yknow, Hitler killed *almost* as many christians in today's eastern europe as he did Jews. He only tried to satisfy Catholicism so the Vatican would let the Italian army be on their side. Same with the non-vatican Italian gov't of the time.
yeah, how else would he get the Italians on his side? He had to satisfy the vatican to get the Italian army on his side. Hitler believed in the traditional German religion, as he believed the Germanic race was superior to all other races. He would have worshiped "Thor"
brokenopen, Hitler was a christian, which is why he killed 6m jews. He wrote "For their interests [the Church's] cannot fail to coincide with ours [the National Socialists] alike in our fight against the symptoms of degeneracy in the world of to-day, in our fight against a Bolshevist culture, against atheistic movement, against criminality, and in our struggle for a consciousness of a community in our national life".
Why is killing Jews a Christian trait? He killed Jews because he was a eugenics madman, and hated everyone that didn't fit his ideal. He knew what crowd he had to play to, which was a community that was primarily made up of Christians. If there had been more atheists at the time he would have said they needed to fight against the Church. Claiming to be a Christian doesn't make you one. You will know them by their fruits.
What does where you go to school have to do with your faith? He got booted out of seminary anyway, and then went on to lead a country that did everything it could to demolish religion by shutting down churches and mosques, forcing it undergroun;, harassed believers, and propogated atheism in schools. Members of the Russion Orthodox Church who survived his murdering ways would probably have a mile to say about his Christianity. Pick a religion, and the man persecuted the followers.
Hitler was a Christian, and actually those who don't believe in santa killed more than atheists. Also, bald people killed more than atheists. Atheism says nothing at all that influences murder, but religion does.
Are you fucking kidding me ? Hitler killed in the name of god. And there have been more deaths in the name of Christ than any attrocity ever. Several wars, fear of impurites, witch hunts... random acts of violence against those who disagree... I can't believe you so ignorantly said that.
I've given this some thought. Yeah. You are right that atheists have caused more pain and suffering than christians. I agree because a true christian would never make war. A true christian would never judge someone else. A true christian would never cater to the super rich while shafting the lower economic classes.
That said, I suppose you would agree that throughout history, more attrocities have been committed by unscrupulous people who wrongly use religion to justify their horrible deeds.
I'm with you on the economic comment, the atrocities comment, and maybe halfway on the judge thing. I can elaborate later if you want? On the war point though, I think that Romans 13:4 makes a pretty good point for the state fighting evil with the sword.
Did you know Satan is a nun? Come on Hitler may have said he was a christian but that don't make his one. You are the one that is wrong. Think rationally.
rationalthinker28: Hillary Clinton recently hired a minister to teach her how to say the right things so she can get the "believer" vote. She's not a believer, but she needs their vote. This is the same thing Obama is doing, and possibly Bush did it too. I have no clue if he's really a Christian. Every politician caters to their largest demographic; and Hitler wanted Italy's army to help him fight, so he needed the catholics on his side. Use that rational thinking, man!
"If we believe absurdities, we shall commit atrocities. The truths of religion are never so well understood as by those who have lost the power of reasoning. Every sensible man, every honest man, must hold the christian sect in horror. God is a comedian playing to an audience too afraid to laugh".- Voltaire
Just to clarify a Christian position, it is not the fact that someone does not believe in Jesus that condemns them to hell, it is that fact that they sinned against Almighty God.
Jesus came to be the payment for that sin. Ignoring his sacrifice means you are still steeped in your own sin, and God sees you as such. Believing in Christ and asking for forgiveness gives you the righteousness of Christ, and salvation from the Judgement to come. If a man did not sin at all, he would go straight to heaven after death. As man cannot help but sin, a sacrifice is required to cover or remove the sin. That's where Jesus came in.
and now that i see you put it that way, wow, it's disgusting. If you could only see how you're enslaved to a 2,000 year old fairy tale. Wow i am sad for you. i know you'll reply that you get set free, but i mean look at what you just wrote!
You proved my point, you never believed. If you now see it as a fairy tale you didn't believe it then. That's like saying I stop believeing in gravity. I use to. I am not afraid to jump off a building because I no longer believe gravity exist. Just because you don't believe it "anymore" doesn't make it not true.
Beliefs change all the time. Many people fall from the faith. It doesn't mean they didn't believe it. It just means that something else changed their view. There were once people who believed the earth was flat, then some people theorized it was round and beliefs changed.
It doesn't effect whether it is true.
For example: I used to believe in gravity, now I just think the earth sucks!
I am not refering to mere belief I am refering to being a christian. I was saying there is no such thing as a ex-christian. Sure you can change your belief. That's not what I am talking about.
P.S. I do like your gravity comment. That's funny.
I agree it can gat a little too serious. I only respond because I care. Many people think they are christians because they said a little prayer. I just want everyone to know it is more than that. It is realizing your sinfulness and God demands you to repentance and faith it order to be forgiven.
thanks for telling me what i wasn't. what arrogance. i believed just like you, then stopped believing. "changed", does that mean shutting down your mind so that the BS can go in without interferance?
ah but then i am used to the arrogance of christians.
That is not Pascals Wager. I was simply asking if you are confident in your belief. If so great. Just asking.
As for the "other" gods. I know they don't exist because the bible can be proved to be the word of God. Therefore everything it says is true. And Jesus He will judge the entire world.
You don't believe that, but that is ok. It doesn't matter. Our beliefs do not alter reality. Thank God.
I said repent of their sins and put their faith in Christ. If they don't do that then yes.
This sounds harsh, because you don't understand the exceedingly sinfulness of sin. This will also sounds harsh if you don't understand the holiness of God. Sin is not an opps. It is an terrible offence towards a perfect and loving God. It is spitting in the face of the One who created you. Untill you grasp the sinfullness of sin and the rightousness of God it will never make sence.
that's just the most evil, repulsive thing i have ever heard. well i have heard it before from countless christians. i'm glad to be out of that horrible mind virus. people going to suffer eternal punishment because they didn't happen to believe in one particular savior. the only reason you believe is you had parents, friends, whatever get to your mind with this, otherwise you'd see that it makes no sense at all.
If that is your view now you were never a christian. Bottom line. Christianity is not a brain washing it is a spirit washing. You have no idea how I was brought up or who my friends are or how I came to Christ. Call it what you will, but that will not change the truth.
You can hate God all you want, but He will still be God. You can spit on Christ, but He is still the only way to eternal life. You stand in a long line of God haters. The more you hate God the better you feel about your sin.
Lets see if you believed the same as I do. I believe I'm a foul, rotten sinner. I was a slave to sin. I deserve to burn eternally in the deadest part of hell. Nothing I do or can do will earn Gods favor. Jesus did not die because Im worth it. The wrath of God had to be satified, the penitility of sin had to be paid. He took it for me. Only to bring glory to Himself and to show how merciful He is. You must repent and trust Him or you will go to hell. Is that what you believed?
WHAT happened to stop your faith? There is too much religion anymore & not enough Holy Spirit.people judge GOD on what people do who are Christians.There are bad reps out there. I know nothing about shutting down my mind To the BS and if I seem to use arrogance as a Christian please forgive me.Please do not make the mistake and judge all Christians as one person.I only know what I have seen personally in my life. IT has been amazing for me.
always the same with these christians. they think us ex-christians are "lost" or whatever. what part of i don't believe in your stupid religion anymore, can't you get? i don't have any "faith" to share, and quoting verses out of the buybull, well i know you're programmed to do that, but gimme a break lol
Who said this comment was for you. I wrote this for the christians. And again you were never a believer. If you believed you sinned against a rightous God and what that means, you would have been completely changed. Just like if you were hit head on by a mac truck going 60 you would be radically changed. Just because you know it would hurt you have not experienced the pain.
oh yes there is. i was one, believed in it all. since i don't believe in god, jesus is also meaningless. i can face my own death knowing that i stopped support a religion whose holy book support wholesale slaughter of people in it, so i am not concerned. you should be, you believe in a book where there was such violence and cruelty.
Like I told the other person you were not a christian. Believeing it is true doesn't make you christian. Demons believe it's and they are not christians. Tell me about your testimony and how you turn from it. Please.
i'm an exchristian and thepaganwolf is right, the religion is nothing but a way for the pastors and clergy to trap your mind. oh yes christianity is a "relgion", the organized religion/christianity thing is growing tiresome, all religion is organized BS
There is no such thing as a exchristian. You may have thought you were a christian. Lets say you are right about this religious conspiracy. The question is is Jesus God and will you go to hell if you don't repent. The fact is you will die someday. Are you ready to face God when you do?
I get the feeling that this video is as good as most apologetic material in that it helps to solidify the beliefs of the faithful, but does nothing to convert the lost. That doesn't mean it is without merit, as even the most faith need to reaffirm. I also must admit that I couldn't have done any better.
fantastic video! so many people have that question of where they will go when they die. hopefully the ones that want certainty will seek God. PaganWolf, where will you go when you die? actually, let me rephrase that question. where will your soul go when you die?
Thepaganwolf: If you have a point I'll leave it on. If you make a wild accusation it will get removed. I reserve the right to remove your comments, as this is my spot. I'm just wondering when you're going to come up with something to actually talk about, or are you going to keep copying what we post and changing a couple words? We're all praying for you here.
Thank you Paganwolf, for proving the point of my video. To the Christians who are viewing this video, be encouraged. There are many who will refuse the seed, but it is still our job to cast it, according to our Masters will. He will be with us, even to the end of days. Praise be to Christ, our Savior and Redeemer! Amen.
Thank you Brokenopen, for proving the reason why I do what I do and encouraging me to keep it up. To those who read my comments and view my videos, I encourage you to do more videos countering the religous right. Let the asshats know where they really stand.
It is really sad that you spend time and thoughts on something you don't believe is true. If God really don't exist then we are wasteing our time in turn wasteing yours. You exist to convince others that something does not exist. What a empty existance.
It is really sad that you spend most of your time and thoughts on people who are simply NOT INTERESTED in conversion, disrespecting other cultures, invading schoolboards, pushing pseudoscience (un-intelligent design) and setting women's right a few hundred years into the past. I don't seek to convince you. It's not my job to convince you. Only you can free yourself from the Evil-gelical brainwashing.
Why are so many athesist disrespecting other cultures, invading schoolboards (no more prayer), pushing pseudoscience (evolution) and setting women's right a few hundred years into the past (have you read Darwins book). I don't seek to convince you. It's not my job to convince you. Only the Holy Spirit can free you from the worlds brainwashing.
there are many more refusing the seed everyday because it's a seed of nonsense of lies. your god and savior, the entire relgion is a hodgepodge of previous religions, there's not a shred of truth to it.
Deception and dishonesty. You asked "why do you care about what others believe?" and than you said you don't care what others believe or don't believe but apparently, you're here and the video is posted because there is some sort of caring for what people believe or don't believe. Claiming lack of support for an idea but thru conduct, expressing the contrary. So again, deception and dishonesty
Perhaps if you read the next series of posts you'll notice Brokenopen has removed some posts by ThePaganWolf. They were a little harsh.
My posts were, in general, addressing posts that have since been removed (Notice that some seem non-sequitorial). Contextually I can see why you'd think that, but you've no way of understanding exactly why I posted what I did..
No, Paganwolf was right on the money on a lot of things. The banning and removing is just an act of cowardice on the part of Brokenopen. Couple of months back, Sleeboss banned me from his post. He couldn't refute any of my posts and knew he couldn't convet me. So out of frustation, he did the cowardly. That only goes to show that Christians love stinging but run when they get stung. If you can't defeat some one logically, you tuck your tail and run.
I have no way of understanding, I do. The problem is when dealing with nonbelievers, eveything is always one-sided. The same old straw man statements, ad hominems, false assumptions, blantant distortion of people's words, trickery, dishonesty, rudeness, condescension, common steriotypical conduct and just the same irrational WOTM gibberish that has been defeated time and time again. If Christians are going to be effective in their evengelical attempts, there needs to be something new.
When did I ever challenge anyones right not to believe?
What false assumptions have I made?
What strawman arguments have I made?
At what point did I make any evangelical statement?
I'll defend anyones right to believe what they want. The only time belief and I come into conflict is when bad arguments, or bad science are brought up. Case in point (search for)"Question of Origins" here on Youtube. Look which side I'm on.
Seriously, dude! Do you even know why you're debating me?
Brokenopen has the right to remove what he wishes. So do you on your pages.
PaganWolf may have been right, but you must also admit that his intention in many of the removed posts was to be instigative. Perhaps Brokenopen has no interest in flame wars on his page. Can you blame him?
I don't agree with the video. I even offered my criticism.
How strange that you feel compelled to refute a statement I made almost a year ago.
Ok, one question at a time. I never said that you challenged anyone's right not to believe, false assumptions, strawman or evengelcal statements. I'm sorry if I made it look that way. The problem is that most pages with WOTM ideology are big with these traits. Their demeanor is just god aweful and I feel to compelled to voice my opinion and the owners end up deleting and banning people just because they strongly disagree with the opposite view. That's a cowardly way.
I'm not attaching rules on this page. I'm just voicing my opinion. You're right, anyone who has a page has a right to delete or banned anyone but with most WOTM youtube pages, the banning and removing is due to disagreement, frustration and failure to convert on the part of the page owners. Flaming wars, I guest the Brokenopen can't take the heat. A lot of the Christian extremists that debate with me give up too easily.
We end up going on these long debates and in the end, they end up running because I take them to the very limit. I'm not refuting any aguements you've made because I've never seen them. I'm just saying that Sleeboss (a WOTM drone) banned me because he couldn't refute me. He basical just acted all steriotypical and condescending, I didn't buy into his stupidity. So he banned me, out of frustration and cowardice.
In the context of this video, it looked like it was meant for christians. The entire concept of the video is meant to reinforce pre-existing beliefs. If you aren't a christian, this video wasn't meant for you. Any critique of it from a non-christian view is irrelevent and/or gratuitous (especially in the case of PaganWolf).
Hence the question, "What do you care what others believe?"
As for Paganwolf, he was just going about things from an antagonistic athiest's point of view. Like many athiests, he belives that religion is one of the major problems in the world today. I personally believe that the biggest problem is human stupidity and that that cure for that is education.
I imagine fear is also a major problem for this world. Especially fear of the unknown.
On PaganWolfs supposition: If there had been no religion, there would be no rock, hiphop, blues, country, punk, folk, or many other forms of music. Nearly all styles were inpired by, or in reaction to, religion. The same with much of the comforts we take for granted. Religion is like any other force or energy, it can be used to help or hinder us, depending on how we apply it.
There is some legitimately irrational phenomena associated with being a christian. The idea of faith is lost on many christians. Faith, by definition, is irrational and not based on observable fact.
I would agree that most apologetics is misguided, especially when they do silly things like ignoring evidence and calling their assertions "science".
Wow, nice debate. The only thing that I don't get about trying to discuss things with people that believe in the "atheist" way, is how quick they are to call names. That immediately kills their argument. I'm great with others believing what they want and talking about it, but when it gets to baseless flames, take it to digg or reddit. There's no place for that here. Thanks for hitting the nail on the head qabala.
As for how we apply religion, you're right. The problem is that in the days and age, religion is being applied wrong way. Just look at America and the world. Many Christians in America trying to legislate their morality and the war in the middle east with the Sheria Law and people being beheaded. Those are real examples right there.
As for science, the door is always opened for proof and new discoveries. I personally don't have a problem with faith or those who believe. The real problem lies with the negativity and stupidity that is being spawned and the damage that is being caused. That's pretty much the problem right there.
:) Thanks. And for the record, for others who read this thread, the history of the Paganwolf thing was that he, I guess, tried to post something here, and it didn't take. I think he thought I deleted it, and went all crazy on me. We all know the comments system here sucks. After he went crazy calling names, I did delete that one to be honest, but only because it was foul and flame-tastic. Also, totally irrelevant.
Hey, everyone makes mistakes, sometimes, acting before thinking carefully. As for the comments system, youtube has a long way to go before it gets its issues straighten out.
I would say the chances of anyone knowing they are going to heaven are slim since I can only think of three people who DEFINITELY went to heaven.
If my belief in God is wrong, that's fine with me. I don't regret living my life the way I do. Even if we do rot in the ground, I've made many people worse off than me very grateful. I refuse to believe that's a bad thing.
Wow I am really loving your Videos Bro!!!
Jesus said I am the way the truth and the light, no one comes to the father except thru me.
Believe in Jesus ...Repent...I hope to see you all in Heaven!
It is not about religon it is about the TRUTH ;) Love ya
truthbeknowen 3 years ago
So, everyone, tell this bimbo that you believe that you should Baptize infants and see what he says. In fact tell him that you have baptized as many children as you can find in your swimming pool, in the name of the Father, Son, Holy Spirit, so as not to take a chance. See what he says.
mindlessnirvanaa 4 years ago
Can you explain what you mean? This doesn't really make any sense. What point are you trying to make? It's a little unclear.
brokenopen 4 years ago
From dust you came - from dust you will return
ZITZON 4 years ago
When the world hates you..remember that it hated Me first!
IamtheWayTruthLife 5 years ago
Cherrypicking example :- stoning adulterers and disobediant children to death, working on the sabbeth, killing non-believers etc etc. Evolution defines our morals and as humans we refine those moral standards. If you believe in the death sentance, you are by ANY standards IMMORAL!
acme181169 5 years ago
So I can rape, murder and steal all my life as long as I believe in god and keep saying sorry then I go to Heaven. But if I do NONE of these things I go to Hell. What a great God!!!
acme181169 5 years ago
rOMANS 6 1What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? 2By no means! We died to sin; how can we live in it any longer? 3Or don't you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.
archijunky 5 years ago
I'm not sure where you came up with this, but that is not what the bible says.
archijunky 5 years ago
1 John 3:8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.
archijunky 5 years ago
So was that a yes or a no? Isn't all sin equal in the eyes of god? Isn't it the same if i cuss using his name or a murder than rape the headless corpse and steal the valuables. As Long as I truely repent and believe in god I will go to heaven. However if i never kill or rape or steal BUT do NOT believe in god i go to hell
acme181169 5 years ago
All sin is not equal, but sin is sin. It ultimately represents a separation from the Lord. The point of the whole Old Testament is that Man can not help but sin. If we could, Christ would not have had to come and sacrifice himself for us.
brokenopen 5 years ago
so how is the punishment from god is different for murder and blastphemy? Or rape and adulterey (did'nt jesus say just thinking about a woman sexually was adulterey) will I go to hell for any or all of these things?
acme181169 5 years ago
There will be degrees of punisment in hell and degrees of rewards in heaven. Here in the bottom line. Not believeing in Jesus in a sin. If you die not believeing in Him you will go to hell. You think that is harsh because you don't understand the excedingly sinfulnes of sin.
archijunky 5 years ago
I don't believe it's harsh, I believe it's stupid. So are you saying for some sin i'll only burn for half of eternity in hell?
acme181169 5 years ago
Thats's not what I said. Heaven and hell are both eternal. What the bible teaches is this. Hitler and the run of the mill pagan will both be in hell for eternity. The difference will be the punishment they will receive. I don'y completely understand it, but that's what the bible teaches.
archijunky 5 years ago
So if you don't understand it, you could make a mistake and go to hell when your tried your best to be a good christian! If he wants you to follow the rules wounld'nt it be best if he clearly laid them out, you could end up in hell through no fault of your own, maybe atheists end up in heaven by mistake!!
PS I thought Hitler was a catholic
acme181169 5 years ago
What I don't understand is the exact punishments given in hell. He very clearly laid out the rules. They are called the 10 commandments. They are writen in His word (Bible) and on our hearts (conscience).
Question: Are you really wanting to know these answers or are you being conducending? I would love to answer any question I can, if you are willing to be open to the answers? i.e. Waht is your mood and motives?
archijunky 5 years ago
Yes i am serious. I really want to have answers to these questions. These things are at the very heart of my doubt. They do not make sense to me. Its seem to me that depending on who you listen to depends on whether you go to hell or not. Mother Teresa seems a prime heaven candidate yet some would say that catholics don't go to heaven.
acme181169 5 years ago
Although Mother Teresa seemed like a good person, she still had sin. Romans 3:23 says "For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God". Catholic, Protestant, Baptist...doesn't matter, Jesus Christ is the only one who died for our sins. He is the answer, not religion.
saved2004 5 years ago
A good judge has to send someone to prison/fine if they break the law. God is a righteous judge, we have all broken his laws, therefore, we must pay the price. The bible says "For by grace are we saved through faith and that not of ourselves, it's a gift of God." Jesus paid our fine so we don't have to get locked up ? Make sense ?
saved2004 5 years ago
No, it does'nt make sense, because it's possible to sin without knowing one has done so. therefore you can't ask for forgiveness, therefore you could go to hell by default.
PS Please read my earlier comments
acme181169 5 years ago
You know you have sinned. Many many many times. Just like I have. I may have sinned more than you. I used to be a drug addict. Jesus died to pay for every sin I have commited past, present and future. But I must repent and trust Him in order to be forgiven. You don't have to know every sin, just hta evry sin was paid for.
archijunky 5 years ago
So I can rape murder and steal and still go to heaven then?
acme181169 5 years ago
Ask Paul in the bible. He murder early Christians. He hated them. He want to kill all of them. Then Jesus Christ saved him. He wrote 2/3 of The New Testament. God can forgiven any sin except dieing not repenting and trusting Him as your Lord and Savior. If I tell you some verses to read will you read them?
archijunky 5 years ago
Galatians 1:13
For you have heard of my former conduct in Judaism, how I persecuted the church of God beyond measure and tried to destroy it. And I advanced in Judaism beyond many of my contemporaries in my own nation, being more exceedingly zealous for the traditions of my fathers.
But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb and called me through His grace, to reveal His Son in me, that I might preach Him among the Gentiles,
archijunky 5 years ago
Junky that the point i'm trying to get across, under your moral rules i can do whatever i like as long as i truly repent afterward i go to heaven. Where as if lead a good life, hurting nobody but do not believe in god then i go to hell!!!. That is a crazy fucked up viewpoint. The central message in christianity is hate:- believe or spend all eternity burning in hell. To denign this is to denigh god.
acme181169 5 years ago
There are no good people. That is the point. You say hurting nobody. It's all about how you treat God not people. Nobody deserves heaven. You must be perfect to enter heaven.
If you don't believe in God then you sin. You deny the very one that gave you breath. You shake your fist at your creator. Why should he let you in His heaven.
Hate is not the central message.
archijunky 5 years ago
Thats why religion is in decline all over the world, and is all but extinct in Europe. Your facist views with regard to homosexuals for example are offensive and immoral. How can ANYBODY put an imaginary figure above the importance of a human life?! You and your religion are so out of step you will be the architects of your own demise. Fuck god, fuck jesus, fuck the holy ghost and FUCK YOU!
acme181169 5 years ago
Wow did I hit a nerve. Isn't it funny that religion is close to extinct in Europe while crime and promiscuity is on the rise. You are accusing me of being offensive?
It is ok talk bad about Christianity, but it is offensive to bad about sinning. What a double standard.
I think you are just angry at the guilt in your own conscience. Don't worry in time it will dull and the worse and worse you will become.
Just look at Europe.
archijunky 5 years ago
Crime in the USA, the most religous country in the west, far outstrips Europe. There are more murders in New York than there are in the whole of the UK. America has more in prison than the WHOLE of Europe. Think about that! That suggests the Fucked up moral Christian morals in America are causing the problems. You confirmed yourself under Christianity you behave how you like as long as you repent, You regard all sin the same. Murder is no worse than blastphemy in your FUCKED UP WORLD!
acme181169 5 years ago
Of course you hit a nerve fuckwit. Your entire value system is based on bronze age myth with an equally out dated moral set, and you condemn entire community's. Christian morals are immoral. They laughable thing is you pick and choose what to obey and then judge people on your own selective cherry picking. HOW, AT ANY LEVEL, CAN YOU REGARD YOURSELF OR CHRISTIANS AT LOARGE AS MORAL PEOPLE?.
acme181169 5 years ago
What is being cherry picked? What morals of Christians are immoral? As a non-Christian, who defined your morals for you? Did you just decide out of thin air what you consider to be immoral/moral?
brokenopen 5 years ago
People derrive their morals from society, thats why what may be considered bad in one place may not be in another. You don't get all your morals from the bible because if you did you would be out there stoning people to death left and right for just working on the sabbeth. Then theres all the other exceptions to the thou shall not kill rule.
shonkey 5 years ago
If you look at what is regarded as highly moralistic in every society, you'll find the same stuff. It's not ok to murder anyone in any society. Premeditated murder is different than killing, as anyone who has defended his wife and family from an intruder in the middle of the night can attest. Many translations say "thou shalt not murder", not "kill."
brokenopen 5 years ago
Its not ok to murder b/c we have an ability to recognize human life and its value. You ignore the mayans who practiced human sacrifices as well as ignore the studies done on feral children who had no interaction with society and have nothing you would consider morals nor an ability to distinguish b/w right and wrong as well as ignoring case studies done on people born w/o conscience:psychopathy
shonkey 5 years ago
I guess America, where it's the most religious in west, has it pretty bad then. Kind of funny how the rise in crime and packing of the prisons can be directly correlated to the advent of socialist ideas and the push against religion that started in the 60's and 70's. When you set up a welfare system to encourage single parent houses, what do you expect.
brokenopen 5 years ago
Are you fucking kidding me. I would really like to see these graphs, tables, and data that you are drawing these ludicrous conclusions from. The welfare system doesn't encourage single parent houses, nobody says hey I want to have a baby but fuck splitting the work and having a father/mother. I want to do twice the ammount of work and struggle to be able to provide for my child
shonkey 5 years ago
Go talk to people who've lived in the projects and gotten out of them, as I have. They'll tell you the welfare system rewards women who don't have a man in the house by giving them more money.
brokenopen 5 years ago
that still does not encourage any woman to leave there husband/father of their child to raise it alone. They certainly aren't getting pregnant to get money, and they arent leaving their husbands because they see big profits coming their way if they do so. Even if they do get money they still must struggle to survive. My mother raised myself and my two siblings as a single mom b/c she had no choice but to leave my father b/c of abuse, not because she was going to get some check from the govnt
shonkey 5 years ago
you are a fool if you believe the dirt that spills out over your forked tongue like the waters of the Niagra Falls
shonkey 5 years ago
Hmm and why is it in decline? Mat 24:12 And because sin shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. You can keep your pornos, alcohol, drugs or whatever else you love in your world. See if losing your soul was worth any of it when death comes. And you know it will sooner or later.
onetruemessiah 5 years ago
That is just incoherent christian drivel!
acme181169 5 years ago
Stop your brainwashing! GodIsImaginary dot com
zecnobot 5 years ago
DayfallKat, I think they would represent that none of the people in the video are Christians. The phrase, "The harvest is ready" points pretty clearly to this.
JEverettK 5 years ago
True. I should never have used Christians to identify that group of people. I should have used a more descriptive term for those that believe in Heven and Hell, Jesus and sins, and God and the devil.
DayfallKat 5 years ago
Exactly.
JEverettK 5 years ago
I think it is funny that they only interview Christians. Ask an atheist. Ask a Buddhist if he is going to heaven or hell.
DayfallKat 5 years ago
When I went out to interview people I was willing to take everyone, in fact I was hoping that I'd get some atheists /Buddhists/non-Christians. One of the people on the video is a Mormon, one is a non-Christian. I just asked whoever was willing to be interviewed. What would you say you are?
brokenopen 5 years ago
I would say I am an atheist. Actually, I am an atheist. I grew up a Christian and was one until about 10 years ago. I was a fundamentalist. I remember very well going around asking the same questions. "Do you believe in Jesus?" "Do you follow all of his teachings everyday?" But, once I realized that other people had just a strong of a faith in other religions as I did in mine, I began to consider their reasons and mentality. Questioning is a bad thing for false religions.
DayfallKat 5 years ago
They may have very very strong faith in some other religion but they have very very weak proof of believeing it. I would go so far as to say none of these interviews were christians. You may have grown up in a christan home, but it don't sound like you were a christian. Read my post above above what I believe as a christian and see if it lines up with what you believed.
archijunky 5 years ago
And you have strong proof for yours? Still, proof wasn't the issue, we both agree they have no proof. The disturbing fact was that they have a very strong belief while having no proof.
At one time I easaly met your requirements for being a "true" Christian. I would also add "The strong urgency to show people their sin and to show them God's love for them anyways" and "The humility in knowing that you are not worthy to be saved, and still accept the sacrifice made for you."
DayfallKat 5 years ago
"follow all of his teachings everyday" is where you messed up. Youre looking at it as how hard you work; not as faith, but as religion. There's a huge difference. I live in NYC and see what youre talking about every day; and every one of these "strong believers" of other religions are just working for heaven.
spear223 5 years ago
I don't believe they are working to get to heaven. I wasn't. I was doing it because moderate Christianity makes no sence. Like the "God Hates Fags" people. They arn't doing it for brownie points. They are really trying to make people think that being gay is a sin and should not be tolerated any more than murder.
DayfallKat 5 years ago
DayfallKat: Sure, they're working for Heaven. Ask any Muslim how he knows he's going to paradise. None can be certain, they just have to do enough good, and hope that Allah shows them mercy. I'm not being hateful or biased, it's based from the Quran. The same attitude is true of a LOT of christians too. I mean, a lot of them. But its not biblical.
spear223 5 years ago
I am not talking about Muslims (which do work to get into Heaven) nor all the Christians that think that doing good is enough.
Back to the point, plese. I accepted Jesus' sacrifice for my sins and tried to follow his teachings. Later I recognized the Bible stories as fables and it was all up hill from there. Ex-Christian. You ought to try it.
DayfallKat 5 years ago
i did try it. i didnt become a christian until i was 19. i live in the most liberal area of the world--NYC-- i didnt grow up surrounded by christians and wasnt brought up in the church.
There's a difference between accepting something and believing something, theres a difference between believing something and having faith in something. There's a difference between asking forgiveness and repenting.
spear223 5 years ago
youre right... homosexuality shouldnt be tolerated more than murder. stealing bubble gum shouldnt be tolerated more than murder either. the idea of one sin being worse than another is a human concept, not based on God or the bible.
spear223 5 years ago
Of course, God and the Bible stories are human concepts as well.
Saying that stealing bubble gum can be equated in any way to murder is lunacy (but still Biblical). Tonight, I am going to give my boyfirend a big kiss just for you!
DayfallKat 5 years ago
but also i do want to add, that even if you WERE a christian, doesnt mean you always will be. that "once saved, always saved" stuff isnt biblical. I assume maybe you were a christian, realized you were gay, and so rejected christianity because it says homosexuality is a sin.
But go ahead and give your b/f a kiss. I dont agree with homosexuality, but that doesnt mean I hate homosexuals!
spear223 5 years ago
Alot of Christians I have talked to disagree. And actually I realized I was bi after I dropped Christianity. I strongly believed in no sex before marriage, but me and my girlfriend liked to run around naked. The church group called us sinners and prayed for us. I was preached to like the people I used to do it to.
DayfallKat 5 years ago
Yes sir, gota ask people what they think about Eternity cause we are dead alot longer than we are alive so its only wise to reflect on a place you'll be forever! JC4Life
latinguitar00 5 years ago
Prv3:5 Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.
Mat12:35 A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things.
Mat12:36 But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.
Mat12:37 For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.
2007kid 5 years ago
Great Video- Great work
ahamm01 5 years ago
Atheists have killed more people by the millions in shorter spans of time than Christianity ever did in totality. If Voltaire had lived to see how the abandonment of God affected the world, he'd be choking on his own words. Ex: Hitler, Mao Zedong, Stalin, Kim Jong Il. Christianity has done more good for the world than atheism ever did.
brokenopen 5 years ago
You can't include Hitler in that list. That man employed every tool he could to justify his attrocities. I'm not saying he was a christian, but he sure did use a lot of christian propaganda to justify his actions.
qabala 5 years ago
Now that I think about it, I'm not sure you can include Kim Jhong Il either. As it happens, he is catholic, albeit a bad one.
qabala 5 years ago
You are right, I stand corrected. I get confused sometimes between the utter dejected soul and mind chilling hopelessness that is atheism, and the woe and monumental depravity caused by militaristic dictatorial regimes. In the next comment I'll correct the example. Thanks for the correction! :)
brokenopen 5 years ago
Stalin= 20-30 million deaths
Mao Zedong= 70 million deaths
Leaders of dictatorial regimes attempting to leverage their "declared" Christianity to justify the wholesale slaughter of innocents and wanton abandonment of all morality, thereby poisoning millions of peoples minds to the Truth of Jesus Christ = perhaps 100's of millions of deaths
brokenopen 5 years ago
That is my hot button. People claiming to serve god and leading others to the slaughter. They are on TV. They own networks. They are in our government. We reward them with fame and fortune.
This is what I'd really like to see you make a movie on.
qabbalah 5 years ago
For the record, this is not a comment on George Bush, nor is it an attempt to start a thread on him. Personally, I believe our reasons for going to war in Iraq were justified. I also don't believe he played the Christianity card in laying out the reasons for it. Just my 2 cents, and again, not an invitation to bash the President. Let's make this commentary about Christianity, and not about current politics please.
brokenopen 5 years ago
Who mentioned George Bush?
Who steered the conversation toward evil politicians?
It's an important can of worms you've opened. A christian should not cower away from confronting the hypocrisy of supposedly "christian" leaders.
WWJD?
He would overturn the tables of the corrupt that profit on his name.
qabbalah 5 years ago
Ugghhh. I should have known we'd go down this path. I didn't want to start a thread on it because I get enough talking politics at work. :) I was really just replying to the Voltaire comment, as a counterpoint to dead French politician quotes. As far as cowering, there's no fear here. Just more exciting things (like Christ) to talk about than tired old discussions about current events in D.C.
brokenopen 5 years ago
Fair enough!
qabala 5 years ago
yknow, Hitler killed *almost* as many christians in today's eastern europe as he did Jews. He only tried to satisfy Catholicism so the Vatican would let the Italian army be on their side. Same with the non-vatican Italian gov't of the time.
spear223 5 years ago
yeah, how else would he get the Italians on his side? He had to satisfy the vatican to get the Italian army on his side. Hitler believed in the traditional German religion, as he believed the Germanic race was superior to all other races. He would have worshiped "Thor"
spear223 5 years ago
brokenopen, Hitler was a christian, which is why he killed 6m jews. He wrote "For their interests [the Church's] cannot fail to coincide with ours [the National Socialists] alike in our fight against the symptoms of degeneracy in the world of to-day, in our fight against a Bolshevist culture, against atheistic movement, against criminality, and in our struggle for a consciousness of a community in our national life".
--A. Hitler, 1942
GeorgeBright 5 years ago
Why is killing Jews a Christian trait? He killed Jews because he was a eugenics madman, and hated everyone that didn't fit his ideal. He knew what crowd he had to play to, which was a community that was primarily made up of Christians. If there had been more atheists at the time he would have said they needed to fight against the Church. Claiming to be a Christian doesn't make you one. You will know them by their fruits.
brokenopen 5 years ago
Also Stalin learned his trade in a Jesuit seminary.
GeorgeBright 5 years ago
What does where you go to school have to do with your faith? He got booted out of seminary anyway, and then went on to lead a country that did everything it could to demolish religion by shutting down churches and mosques, forcing it undergroun;, harassed believers, and propogated atheism in schools. Members of the Russion Orthodox Church who survived his murdering ways would probably have a mile to say about his Christianity. Pick a religion, and the man persecuted the followers.
brokenopen 5 years ago
Pick your leaderin the common era, and I'll show you someone who abused religion in one fashion or another.
qabala 5 years ago
Hitler was a Christian, and actually those who don't believe in santa killed more than atheists. Also, bald people killed more than atheists. Atheism says nothing at all that influences murder, but religion does.
darkreign16 5 years ago
Are you fucking kidding me ? Hitler killed in the name of god. And there have been more deaths in the name of Christ than any attrocity ever. Several wars, fear of impurites, witch hunts... random acts of violence against those who disagree... I can't believe you so ignorantly said that.
lazerflesh 5 years ago
The cursing doesn't help your case, and neither do historical facts. Your case lacks them. Crunch the numbers on both sides, and come back.
brokenopen 5 years ago
I've given this some thought. Yeah. You are right that atheists have caused more pain and suffering than christians. I agree because a true christian would never make war. A true christian would never judge someone else. A true christian would never cater to the super rich while shafting the lower economic classes.
That said, I suppose you would agree that throughout history, more attrocities have been committed by unscrupulous people who wrongly use religion to justify their horrible deeds.
qabala 5 years ago
I'm with you on the economic comment, the atrocities comment, and maybe halfway on the judge thing. I can elaborate later if you want? On the war point though, I think that Romans 13:4 makes a pretty good point for the state fighting evil with the sword.
brokenopen 5 years ago
Hitler was a christian/cathlolic your wrong on that one.
rationalthinker28 5 years ago
Did you know Satan is a nun? Come on Hitler may have said he was a christian but that don't make his one. You are the one that is wrong. Think rationally.
archijunky 5 years ago
Say what you will and deny the facts to each his own my friend.
rationalthinker28 5 years ago
rationalthinker28: Hillary Clinton recently hired a minister to teach her how to say the right things so she can get the "believer" vote. She's not a believer, but she needs their vote. This is the same thing Obama is doing, and possibly Bush did it too. I have no clue if he's really a Christian. Every politician caters to their largest demographic; and Hitler wanted Italy's army to help him fight, so he needed the catholics on his side. Use that rational thinking, man!
spear223 5 years ago
"If we believe absurdities, we shall commit atrocities. The truths of religion are never so well understood as by those who have lost the power of reasoning. Every sensible man, every honest man, must hold the christian sect in horror. God is a comedian playing to an audience too afraid to laugh".- Voltaire
Leatherup 5 years ago
Great vid. I added this to my favorites. Keep up the excellent work.
Joseph
ManofGodChristian144 5 years ago
Just to clarify a Christian position, it is not the fact that someone does not believe in Jesus that condemns them to hell, it is that fact that they sinned against Almighty God.
brokenopen 5 years ago
Jesus came to be the payment for that sin. Ignoring his sacrifice means you are still steeped in your own sin, and God sees you as such. Believing in Christ and asking for forgiveness gives you the righteousness of Christ, and salvation from the Judgement to come. If a man did not sin at all, he would go straight to heaven after death. As man cannot help but sin, a sacrifice is required to cover or remove the sin. That's where Jesus came in.
brokenopen 5 years ago
Are you saying I am not a good person? Because I am a good person. Compared to everyone else I am good.
Oh wait! God is not going to compare me to everyone else. He will compare me to himself. Compared to God I am a really bad person. The worst!
OK so your right disregard this reply.
archijunky 5 years ago
yes it was actually. all of that.
and now that i see you put it that way, wow, it's disgusting. If you could only see how you're enslaved to a 2,000 year old fairy tale. Wow i am sad for you. i know you'll reply that you get set free, but i mean look at what you just wrote!
pqhost 5 years ago
You proved my point, you never believed. If you now see it as a fairy tale you didn't believe it then. That's like saying I stop believeing in gravity. I use to. I am not afraid to jump off a building because I no longer believe gravity exist. Just because you don't believe it "anymore" doesn't make it not true.
archijunky 5 years ago
Beliefs change all the time. Many people fall from the faith. It doesn't mean they didn't believe it. It just means that something else changed their view. There were once people who believed the earth was flat, then some people theorized it was round and beliefs changed.
It doesn't effect whether it is true.
For example: I used to believe in gravity, now I just think the earth sucks!
qabala 5 years ago
I am not refering to mere belief I am refering to being a christian. I was saying there is no such thing as a ex-christian. Sure you can change your belief. That's not what I am talking about.
P.S. I do like your gravity comment. That's funny.
archijunky 5 years ago
Is it possible for christians to be led astray? Is it possible for a christian mind to be corrupted?
Faith must be renewed constantly.
A true christian can become an ex-christian if influences change their mind.
Thanks for getting the joke. These boards are often too serious.
qabala 5 years ago
I agree it can gat a little too serious. I only respond because I care. Many people think they are christians because they said a little prayer. I just want everyone to know it is more than that. It is realizing your sinfulness and God demands you to repentance and faith it order to be forgiven.
archijunky 5 years ago
thanks for telling me what i wasn't. what arrogance. i believed just like you, then stopped believing. "changed", does that mean shutting down your mind so that the BS can go in without interferance?
ah but then i am used to the arrogance of christians.
pqhost 5 years ago
P.S. It is not called arrogance it is called confidence. Are you absolutely confident that you will not face God when you die?
archijunky 5 years ago
pascal's wager? no thanks. are you confident you'll face your god or maybe the muslim god, or the ancient gods of greece?
pqhost 5 years ago
That is not Pascals Wager. I was simply asking if you are confident in your belief. If so great. Just asking.
As for the "other" gods. I know they don't exist because the bible can be proved to be the word of God. Therefore everything it says is true. And Jesus He will judge the entire world.
You don't believe that, but that is ok. It doesn't matter. Our beliefs do not alter reality. Thank God.
archijunky 5 years ago
ok then all the other people in the world, who don't believe that your holy book and god are the one true god, they are also going to hell, correct?
pqhost 5 years ago
yup.
archijunky 5 years ago
ok, so all the people who suffered here on earth, but didn't accept christ as their savior will also suffer for eternity as well?
pqhost 5 years ago
I said repent of their sins and put their faith in Christ. If they don't do that then yes.
This sounds harsh, because you don't understand the exceedingly sinfulness of sin. This will also sounds harsh if you don't understand the holiness of God. Sin is not an opps. It is an terrible offence towards a perfect and loving God. It is spitting in the face of the One who created you. Untill you grasp the sinfullness of sin and the rightousness of God it will never make sence.
archijunky 5 years ago
that's just the most evil, repulsive thing i have ever heard. well i have heard it before from countless christians. i'm glad to be out of that horrible mind virus. people going to suffer eternal punishment because they didn't happen to believe in one particular savior. the only reason you believe is you had parents, friends, whatever get to your mind with this, otherwise you'd see that it makes no sense at all.
pqhost 5 years ago
If that is your view now you were never a christian. Bottom line. Christianity is not a brain washing it is a spirit washing. You have no idea how I was brought up or who my friends are or how I came to Christ. Call it what you will, but that will not change the truth.
You can hate God all you want, but He will still be God. You can spit on Christ, but He is still the only way to eternal life. You stand in a long line of God haters. The more you hate God the better you feel about your sin.
archijunky 5 years ago
Lets see if you believed the same as I do. I believe I'm a foul, rotten sinner. I was a slave to sin. I deserve to burn eternally in the deadest part of hell. Nothing I do or can do will earn Gods favor. Jesus did not die because Im worth it. The wrath of God had to be satified, the penitility of sin had to be paid. He took it for me. Only to bring glory to Himself and to show how merciful He is. You must repent and trust Him or you will go to hell. Is that what you believed?
archijunky 5 years ago
WHAT happened to stop your faith? There is too much religion anymore & not enough Holy Spirit.people judge GOD on what people do who are Christians.There are bad reps out there. I know nothing about shutting down my mind To the BS and if I seem to use arrogance as a Christian please forgive me.Please do not make the mistake and judge all Christians as one person.I only know what I have seen personally in my life. IT has been amazing for me.
ahamm01 5 years ago
Luke 19:10
"For the Son of Man came to seek and to save what was lost."
Jesus came to seek after the lost. Are you seeking the lost as well?
Go share your faith. I dare you.
archijunky 5 years ago
always the same with these christians. they think us ex-christians are "lost" or whatever. what part of i don't believe in your stupid religion anymore, can't you get? i don't have any "faith" to share, and quoting verses out of the buybull, well i know you're programmed to do that, but gimme a break lol
pqhost 5 years ago
Who said this comment was for you. I wrote this for the christians. And again you were never a believer. If you believed you sinned against a rightous God and what that means, you would have been completely changed. Just like if you were hit head on by a mac truck going 60 you would be radically changed. Just because you know it would hurt you have not experienced the pain.
archijunky 5 years ago
Perhaps it's not that he wasn't a christian, but that Calvinism is wrong.
qabala 5 years ago
oh yes there is. i was one, believed in it all. since i don't believe in god, jesus is also meaningless. i can face my own death knowing that i stopped support a religion whose holy book support wholesale slaughter of people in it, so i am not concerned. you should be, you believe in a book where there was such violence and cruelty.
pqhost 5 years ago
Like I told the other person you were not a christian. Believeing it is true doesn't make you christian. Demons believe it's and they are not christians. Tell me about your testimony and how you turn from it. Please.
archijunky 5 years ago
i'm an exchristian and thepaganwolf is right, the religion is nothing but a way for the pastors and clergy to trap your mind. oh yes christianity is a "relgion", the organized religion/christianity thing is growing tiresome, all religion is organized BS
pqhost 5 years ago
There is no such thing as a exchristian. You may have thought you were a christian. Lets say you are right about this religious conspiracy. The question is is Jesus God and will you go to hell if you don't repent. The fact is you will die someday. Are you ready to face God when you do?
archijunky 5 years ago
I get the feeling that this video is as good as most apologetic material in that it helps to solidify the beliefs of the faithful, but does nothing to convert the lost. That doesn't mean it is without merit, as even the most faith need to reaffirm. I also must admit that I couldn't have done any better.
qabala 5 years ago
fantastic video! so many people have that question of where they will go when they die. hopefully the ones that want certainty will seek God. PaganWolf, where will you go when you die? actually, let me rephrase that question. where will your soul go when you die?
strider1187 5 years ago
great video! keep it up :)
kikiEclark 5 years ago
Thanks for sharing the larger picture. We need more people like you!!! People who share this need... May God Bless you!
ManofGodChristian144 5 years ago
I find the christian ''How can you NOT prove he exists!!'' the stupidest thing ever. It makes me laugh everytime i hear or see it.
Nightsmere 5 years ago
that's because it's stupid and arrogant. they are supposed to make the point of showing their proof, the burden is on them.
lustyinthenw 5 years ago
Thepaganwolf: If you have a point I'll leave it on. If you make a wild accusation it will get removed. I reserve the right to remove your comments, as this is my spot. I'm just wondering when you're going to come up with something to actually talk about, or are you going to keep copying what we post and changing a couple words? We're all praying for you here.
brokenopen 5 years ago
Thank you Paganwolf, for proving the point of my video. To the Christians who are viewing this video, be encouraged. There are many who will refuse the seed, but it is still our job to cast it, according to our Masters will. He will be with us, even to the end of days. Praise be to Christ, our Savior and Redeemer! Amen.
brokenopen 5 years ago
Thank you Brokenopen, for proving the reason why I do what I do and encouraging me to keep it up. To those who read my comments and view my videos, I encourage you to do more videos countering the religous right. Let the asshats know where they really stand.
THEPAGANWOLF 5 years ago
It is really sad that you spend time and thoughts on something you don't believe is true. If God really don't exist then we are wasteing our time in turn wasteing yours. You exist to convince others that something does not exist. What a empty existance.
archijunky 5 years ago
It is really sad that you spend most of your time and thoughts on people who are simply NOT INTERESTED in conversion, disrespecting other cultures, invading schoolboards, pushing pseudoscience (un-intelligent design) and setting women's right a few hundred years into the past. I don't seek to convince you. It's not my job to convince you. Only you can free yourself from the Evil-gelical brainwashing.
THEPAGANWOLF 5 years ago
Why are so many athesist disrespecting other cultures, invading schoolboards (no more prayer), pushing pseudoscience (evolution) and setting women's right a few hundred years into the past (have you read Darwins book). I don't seek to convince you. It's not my job to convince you. Only the Holy Spirit can free you from the worlds brainwashing.
archijunky 5 years ago
there are many more refusing the seed everyday because it's a seed of nonsense of lies. your god and savior, the entire relgion is a hodgepodge of previous religions, there's not a shred of truth to it.
lustyinthenw 5 years ago
What do you care what others believe?
qabala 5 years ago
And what do you care what others don't believe?
Chuloloc 4 years ago
I would think it's pretty obvious that I don't care what anyone believes (or doesn't believe).
That's, mostly, why I posted.
qabala 4 years ago
That's not what it looks like.
Chuloloc 4 years ago
What does it look like to you?
qabala 4 years ago
Deception and dishonesty. You asked "why do you care about what others believe?" and than you said you don't care what others believe or don't believe but apparently, you're here and the video is posted because there is some sort of caring for what people believe or don't believe. Claiming lack of support for an idea but thru conduct, expressing the contrary. So again, deception and dishonesty
Chuloloc 4 years ago
Perhaps if you read the next series of posts you'll notice Brokenopen has removed some posts by ThePaganWolf. They were a little harsh.
My posts were, in general, addressing posts that have since been removed (Notice that some seem non-sequitorial). Contextually I can see why you'd think that, but you've no way of understanding exactly why I posted what I did..
qabala 4 years ago
No, Paganwolf was right on the money on a lot of things. The banning and removing is just an act of cowardice on the part of Brokenopen. Couple of months back, Sleeboss banned me from his post. He couldn't refute any of my posts and knew he couldn't convet me. So out of frustation, he did the cowardly. That only goes to show that Christians love stinging but run when they get stung. If you can't defeat some one logically, you tuck your tail and run.
Chuloloc 4 years ago
I have no way of understanding, I do. The problem is when dealing with nonbelievers, eveything is always one-sided. The same old straw man statements, ad hominems, false assumptions, blantant distortion of people's words, trickery, dishonesty, rudeness, condescension, common steriotypical conduct and just the same irrational WOTM gibberish that has been defeated time and time again. If Christians are going to be effective in their evengelical attempts, there needs to be something new.
Chuloloc 4 years ago
When did I ever challenge anyones right not to believe?
What false assumptions have I made?
What strawman arguments have I made?
At what point did I make any evangelical statement?
I'll defend anyones right to believe what they want. The only time belief and I come into conflict is when bad arguments, or bad science are brought up. Case in point (search for)"Question of Origins" here on Youtube. Look which side I'm on.
Seriously, dude! Do you even know why you're debating me?
qabala 4 years ago
You are attaching your rules to this page.
Brokenopen has the right to remove what he wishes. So do you on your pages.
PaganWolf may have been right, but you must also admit that his intention in many of the removed posts was to be instigative. Perhaps Brokenopen has no interest in flame wars on his page. Can you blame him?
I don't agree with the video. I even offered my criticism.
How strange that you feel compelled to refute a statement I made almost a year ago.
qabala 4 years ago
Ok, one question at a time. I never said that you challenged anyone's right not to believe, false assumptions, strawman or evengelcal statements. I'm sorry if I made it look that way. The problem is that most pages with WOTM ideology are big with these traits. Their demeanor is just god aweful and I feel to compelled to voice my opinion and the owners end up deleting and banning people just because they strongly disagree with the opposite view. That's a cowardly way.
Chuloloc 4 years ago
I'm not attaching rules on this page. I'm just voicing my opinion. You're right, anyone who has a page has a right to delete or banned anyone but with most WOTM youtube pages, the banning and removing is due to disagreement, frustration and failure to convert on the part of the page owners. Flaming wars, I guest the Brokenopen can't take the heat. A lot of the Christian extremists that debate with me give up too easily.
Chuloloc 4 years ago
We end up going on these long debates and in the end, they end up running because I take them to the very limit. I'm not refuting any aguements you've made because I've never seen them. I'm just saying that Sleeboss (a WOTM drone) banned me because he couldn't refute me. He basical just acted all steriotypical and condescending, I didn't buy into his stupidity. So he banned me, out of frustration and cowardice.
Chuloloc 4 years ago
In the context of this video, it looked like it was meant for christians. The entire concept of the video is meant to reinforce pre-existing beliefs. If you aren't a christian, this video wasn't meant for you. Any critique of it from a non-christian view is irrelevent and/or gratuitous (especially in the case of PaganWolf).
Hence the question, "What do you care what others believe?"
qabala 4 years ago
Ok, now I understand.
Chuloloc 4 years ago
As for Paganwolf, he was just going about things from an antagonistic athiest's point of view. Like many athiests, he belives that religion is one of the major problems in the world today. I personally believe that the biggest problem is human stupidity and that that cure for that is education.
Chuloloc 4 years ago
I agree.
I imagine fear is also a major problem for this world. Especially fear of the unknown.
On PaganWolfs supposition: If there had been no religion, there would be no rock, hiphop, blues, country, punk, folk, or many other forms of music. Nearly all styles were inpired by, or in reaction to, religion. The same with much of the comforts we take for granted. Religion is like any other force or energy, it can be used to help or hinder us, depending on how we apply it.
qabala 4 years ago
There is some legitimately irrational phenomena associated with being a christian. The idea of faith is lost on many christians. Faith, by definition, is irrational and not based on observable fact.
I would agree that most apologetics is misguided, especially when they do silly things like ignoring evidence and calling their assertions "science".
qabala 4 years ago
I posted this before, but it didn't show up...
Actually, you began our conversation with, "And what do you care what others don't believe?" and then went on to accuse me of trickery and dishonesty.
I will agree, however, that many christian groups are quite invasive. I hope you can see that I am not among their ranks.
qabala 4 years ago
Don't worry. Now, I know.
Chuloloc 4 years ago
Wow, nice debate. The only thing that I don't get about trying to discuss things with people that believe in the "atheist" way, is how quick they are to call names. That immediately kills their argument. I'm great with others believing what they want and talking about it, but when it gets to baseless flames, take it to digg or reddit. There's no place for that here. Thanks for hitting the nail on the head qabala.
brokenopen 4 years ago
Well, the debates do get very heated.
It's sometimes difficult to determine how a post is meant, especially since there's no inflection in the printed word.
It's hard not to go into these discussions without being somewhat on edge, I suppose.
Thanks for posting the video, and keeping it up, for those who would benefit from it.
qabala 4 years ago
As for how we apply religion, you're right. The problem is that in the days and age, religion is being applied wrong way. Just look at America and the world. Many Christians in America trying to legislate their morality and the war in the middle east with the Sheria Law and people being beheaded. Those are real examples right there.
Chuloloc 4 years ago
As for science, the door is always opened for proof and new discoveries. I personally don't have a problem with faith or those who believe. The real problem lies with the negativity and stupidity that is being spawned and the damage that is being caused. That's pretty much the problem right there.
Chuloloc 4 years ago
And to Brokenopen, thanks for allowing yourself to get hit in the head, lol.
Chuloloc 4 years ago
:) Thanks. And for the record, for others who read this thread, the history of the Paganwolf thing was that he, I guess, tried to post something here, and it didn't take. I think he thought I deleted it, and went all crazy on me. We all know the comments system here sucks. After he went crazy calling names, I did delete that one to be honest, but only because it was foul and flame-tastic. Also, totally irrelevant.
brokenopen 4 years ago
Hey, everyone makes mistakes, sometimes, acting before thinking carefully. As for the comments system, youtube has a long way to go before it gets its issues straighten out.
Chuloloc 4 years ago
How would you answer these question?
archijunky 5 years ago
I would say the chances of anyone knowing they are going to heaven are slim since I can only think of three people who DEFINITELY went to heaven.
If my belief in God is wrong, that's fine with me. I don't regret living my life the way I do. Even if we do rot in the ground, I've made many people worse off than me very grateful. I refuse to believe that's a bad thing.
qabala 5 years ago
It's a nice stinking pile of bullshit. Why? It's all based on superstitions rather than common sense!
THEPAGANWOLF 5 years ago
Tell me one shread of common sense that shows that God does not exist. Please educated me.
It is common sence that one day we will die. Now tell me, using common sence, what happens after you die.
archijunky 5 years ago