The Cost of Education

[georgeh1231]

omg john you havent done much to help education aparantly your going to vut early childhood education AGAIN very soon after you have raising standards wont help. helen clarke was infinty times better

[AlanCom1]

A govt that would give "free" allowance, so they can be taxed to death once they get a read job and pay for others "free" allowances.

[CommunistNewZealand]

education? this dross, up here, these right-wingers, need to be sent to the Gulags

[9Willbur9]

Queen Helen does not seem to realize that although it is not mandatory for parents to pay school fees, not paying them results in penalties for the child. When I was in high school there were penalties in the form of not being allowed to attend school trips unless fees were paid, hardly a donation.

[mypetcrocigator]

Yeah I'd imagine camps etc wouldn't be government funded :(

[9Willbur9]

Yeah, the camps aren't govt funded, which I can understand, but participation was allowed only if you had paid the schools 'donation'. In other words, if you dont pay the fees (those that are seperate from camp payments etc) then the child is not allowed to participate, making the very idea of a 'donation' a farce.

[mypetcrocigator]

Ah, well that sucks then. I can understand not being allowed to go if they don't pay camp payments but it should have nothing to do with the donation. If the family is poor then they should get some compassion.

[Elementum24]

I'm taking a double degree in Architecture and Philosophy, and as such I value study time more than working unnecessary hours to earn some green. The psychological implications netted by beneficial student allowance policies will further the gap between the hard-working and the lazy (people mucking around will use the money to further their indulgent habits, hard-working people will save it etc). Interesting having capitalist elements coming from Labour policies.

[mypetcrocigator]

Yeah, if the students will use it for their study alone then great! But too many I know would just spend more on alcohol and the taxpayer shouldn't have to fund someone's drinking habit.

[westyboy1977]

Shane asks if Maori have been failed because 1 in 2 have failed level 1 NCEA, what bull shit! What are the stats for all the white fellas out there? That is almost a form of discrimination for suggesting that Maori need special attention whan all they fought for over the last 100 years is equality!

[GlovesnGum]

The Maori guy's question to Helen is completely unfair! I guess I must have forgotten the fact that how much the Maori people accomplish academically is all that really matters in NZ??? Helen is doing a great job, and her ideas for the future sound promising! There will always be students who make the decision that school just isn't for them. It's not failure on anyones part! If we were completing high school and couldn't read or write...THAT would be failure!

[starswitch]

green-national coalition---- just throwing it out there aye, lol 20 percent green vote 40 percent national. That will keep things real and New Zealand wouldn't get to "right wing" but we'll still get all the cool shiny things national are offering, lol.

[IRJESUSLOL]

Kids leave school early, how is that the governments fault? I'm still in High School myself and I see lots of my friends leave school, not because of the school's lack of funding, but because they're just uninterested in making a future for themselves through the school. This in no way is the governments fault. And it's not the governments fault that the families are too "embarassed" not to pay, that's just ridiculous.

[starswitch]

My life won't change either way, and neither will yours so don't worry to much.You so right, its not government that does anything to influence what happens, students leave school early to make other pathways in life, what do these politicians think, their hair gets cut on its own, no, its cause some kid decided at 16 that she was just going to be a hairdressers apprentice, or that waiter that left school at 15 and became a kitchen hand that now gets paid 25 and hour as head waiter....

[wairua89]

I just DONT 'TRUST' John Keys... Hes been caught out on too many lies. Hes spent the majority of his working adult life over seas working in investment banking, and not been amongst us back home here... then kinda wonders back to NZ not too long ago and all of a sudden hes in politics?? ...I dont trust him, especially at this time when wall street and the investment banks, globalisation is crumbling at the knees with poison milk from the stupid free trade no regulations loss of jobs situation

[stephenpfisher]

Our local primary school just had its decile rating incr from 7to8 - reducing govt funding by $50k. An additional $50k is needed from fundraising and donations. The donation scheme needs fixing as schools are not allowed to insist on a donation and whenever a school does the Labour govt backs the parents who don't pay instead of those who do pay, ie the ones who care about their kids education.

[gobus4444]

god they are both as bad as each other but Helen has led our country forward over the past 9 years, if she wasn't so good why has she been voted in for 3 terms already if she's voted in this year it will make her the longest standing priminster in the world

[lilschmow]

Love how much Labour has pulled one over the eyes of so many people. The country is falling to shit around us and you guys want more of the same?? Kinda scary. Key can't do much worse than what Clark has done and I quite frankly am sick of her and her party's deception, double standards and underhanded tactics. She needs out. Oh and by the way it's KYOTO..just so you know. NZ aren't going to make any diference by being onboard with that anyway. We're not even a blip on the radar.

[AdderApple]

haha dang pigs squaabbling and squabbling.. i wish there were some politicians that weren't like this..

[suzievesper]

In the UK, young kids are put through numerous 'tests' to meet standards. In these high stakes tests, there is immense pressure put on the kids to pass. I taught there and kids were wetting beds due to the stress. The curriculum was also narrowed right down for those kids - the focus was only on core academic subjects and everything else went out the window. Our new revised curriculum is leading the world - let's not slide back to 'no child left behind' type policy that has failed the US and UK.

[starswitch]

not to mention the strict social structure

[amanda1bone36]

having more tests for kids will not keep maori boys in school, people who leave school arent interested in the crap school teaches, just like helen said, so therefore offering alternative education is a way better idea than helping parents understand grades and what they mean.

[mikey012345]

Nz kids Education is fine, Keys is an entupenuer, hes a businesman, all he wants is to better himself, $1.90c per week is all that the normal nz family is going to get from keys, he also thinks that we dont need to get involved with keoto!??? clean green is our image, thats what nz is, look @ our history we lead from the front not from behind, i vote auntie helen!!!! keys also quotes alot from aussie policy, why cant he make his own ?

[fuzzibubbles]

Obtaining education as a free resource in society should be made easy.Instead there are "donations",sports,uniform costs,extra-activities that are not funded.This happened cos Labor hasnt put any limits on what schools are allowed to ask from parents.There are those out there that cnt pay "donations",feel pressured to pay them in case their child is left out.Teachers get the slump sometimes,due to the lack of funding,resources,and training.Kids arent receiving the proper education they deserve.

[nickphilips]

....rude, egotistical and they constantly talk over each other. Where did they go to school?

[nickphilips]

Helen with lowest pitched voice possible, Don Key with this effeminate lisp? what about appealing to the vast hetero vote out there?

The education idea here is of course a blatant election lollypop, or Labour would have done it 8 years ago. Students are too irresponsible to pay for education, it always should have been kept free. Vote FRESH TRUST

[wairua89]

actually determined the majority of policies regarding 'Maori' up until the present day. Except after 1975 (Treaty of Waitangi Act) it began to change and see the light of day...After 1990s the assumed authority of the state over 'Maori' seemed to be palmed back to Maori in this delapatated state of existance... The current results and situation of Maori has had a huge over powering hand from the states earlier legislation, and prescription of assimilation and amalgamation. Uni teaches you a bit

[wairua89]

we can move on into a positive progressive future... Maori Party being mainly made up of academics and educationalists as well as the cream of the le cream of Maoridom is an absolute positive step into the right direction. Im Voting for them :p... I have nooo problem paying my school fees, or bloody school trips. I think those things are our responsibilities. In other countries its a privledge to be able to go to school

[wairua89]

The education for Maori since the establishment of the 'Native Schools' taught Maori 'corporal punishment' and that the Maori language was irrelevant to living. This perpetuated perspective transgenerationally has had a huge OBVIOUS impact on the majority of Maori and education. Now that New Zealand has come along way since the Native Schools Act, and the prohibition of Maori language in the schools and all the negative implications it had on Maori has caused as much damage as it could have..

[willywonkakelly]

Not all students should get student allownace I know people in my hall of residence who have spent thousands of dollars on alchahol this year and this will just make it worse.

[KevinAtSeven]

Wowser.

[BeazelProducktions]

Uhhhh...as somebody still in NZ's schooling system.. Has John heard of P.A.T?

Rainbow reading perhaps?

As for having tests from the very start of schooling, alot of the time spent at primary is not just learning academically but it's an environment to learn how to behave socially and interact with other human beings in a hopefully polite manner. (A lesson both of these politicians seem to have forgotten)

[BeazelProducktions]

It's impossible to learn at the higher levels, such as what I am learning in now if people refuse to give others in the classroom- particularly the teacher, the respect to listen to them. Skills which are honed at primary.

Additionally, tests are stressful no matter how old you are or how difficult they are. I'm sure that if my yr 2 sister was confronted with official standards persay she would be highly intimidated and lose any love for learning much earlier than is acceptable.

[benthemuzz]

i agree with jurassic. Its not racism its a fact. There are smart, educated and uplifted maori people but the majority are dragging down those making the effort. Why is there 1/2 maori boys getting ncea1? Its a cultural issue. There is a lack of knowledge and education values which has been passed down the generations. Look at where the maori have come from and compare it to western society. The maori that are behind should stop complaining and being bums and use the opportunities given to them.

[spellgrounds]

fuck that bitch! she could'nt run water!

[Gturbos]

"1 in 2 Maori boys leave school without level 1 NCEA" LMAO, i believe this has more to do with the culture rather than the fualt of Helen. But i guess it is always easier to blame someone else or something on our failures. but still LMAO @ 1/2

[tidmihi]

hey hugo before you start pointing the finger at people failing in the education system maybe you should learn how to spell yourself cock head!

[hugo199410]

AND WTF, howz maori falling got anything to do with the system failing? the maori falling are because they are lazy and cant concentrate, is not the government fault. I can prove that cos i dont c any asian falling, they are on the same eduction system and they are doin extreamly well. the rdcation system is fine, is just that the maori fault .

NO BEIN RASICT

[tidmihi]

Hey Hugo before you start pointing the finger at people failing in the education system because of their ethnicity maybe you should lean to spell yourself asshole! Go get some grammar lessons! Kia ora......

[Gturbos]

LOL couldnt agree more

[hugo199410]

i just type fast, i dont giv a crap about spelling unless is in skwl, or in a IGCSE exam... so yer. i am just tring to make a point cos that the education system is fine, i go to AGS, and i can learn fine, is people in the lower clases thats are faling, is not the system fault

[KevinAtSeven]

Sounds like you fit the stereotype that every other high schooler has of Auckland grammar students - arrogant little boys. Youre saying that performance is directly related to perceived class? Of course its the systems fault when schools have to ask for donations-in areas of a lower socio-economic status these are less likely to be paid. The result is underfunding. Sure, this means poorer results, but thats a flow-on effect of the system.

Btw, it was me asking the second question on the vid.

[hugo199410]

i didnt said ANYTHING about the system being fine at funding, i am saying they cant blame the system for falling just because 1 in 2 maori fall the NCEA. And DONT insult my SCHOOL!

[KevinAtSeven]

Wow, no need to get wound up!

[hugo199410]

i aint.

[DougieBailey]

Hugo racist fuck. The main issue with Maori students dropping out are domestic and social issues. And politicians, journalists and dickheads like yourself hardly offer any constructive incentive for their parents to keep them in school. The system is eurocentric, evident of its failure of the Maori youth. In Aus the federal govt is considering cutting welfare payments to parents of children who do not attend regular school days up to the age of 16... Thats reguardless of ethnicity.

[jurrassicsparks]

Dougie,the other races have no problem.Chinese,south africans,Koreans.Maybe we have to stop pandering to maori and give them a kick up the backside.

[DougieBailey]

Jurrassic, I dont support pandering, i just think its a parental issue, not the youth. You start controlling the parents with welfare cuts to get their kids in school and youve got the kids in class. How else do you expect to control them

[hugo199410]

i agree with you, sum other people are having a f###ing spaz about it!!its fact and there is no dout about that.

[hugo199410]

dude, dont ask me to be nice to Maori when many of the maoris i hav meet calling me "f***ing asian" and other racist name! One time i was walking in City with my friends and this maori dude just called. me "f***ing asian", i didnt evem no that guy, and that had happen to me serval time.

[feilidh]

That is being racist you arsehole. First of all, learn to spell. Because you are a racist, you should at least spell the word properly. If you are so smart why does your language not give any indication of it? Secondly, what a ridiculous thing to say. There is nothing inherent in a particular racial groups' genetics that makes them lazier than others. So before you decide to come on youtube and post prejudicial, bigoted messages, have a think about it and go join the National Front.

[jurrassicsparks]

Get into the real world sunshine.What ethnic group has the lowest employment rate in NZ.ITs not racist its a fact of life.Whats so precious about stating facts.I agree with the maori party on this one,work for the dole.There is nothing worse than getting into the routine of not working.Its bad for the soul and it becomes addictive with a flow on effect down the family.Grow up and get into the real world,not school.

[wairua89]

lol...Funny talking about racism and the benefit. When the very first benefits/pensions came out Maori that were 'entitled' to it only got half. After the second world war Maori men VOLUNTEERED to fight in the war in order of aquiring or being eligable of 'citizenship' coz at that time the as like the first world were indigenous/blacks blah were seen to be not good enough to fight next to white men. Until the number of casualties rose. Now getting back 2 race

[hugo199410]

wow, way to go on being a national supporter!! I DONT GIV A DAMN ABOUT POLITICS. i am just tring to make a point, thats all. Maori avargely are doing worst at skwl then other people, thats a fact. Other people (not saying is me) in the SAME education system is doing fine, so i dont think is the system fault. ONCE AGAIN THIS IS JUST MY OPINION!!!!

[jurrassicsparks]

Its all peer pressure and parent help.The maori kids that start acheiving are soon slapped down by their mates for jealous reasons.They feel as outcasts.PARENTS AND TEACHERS need to encourage these kids and start saying its not cool to be a failure.We all have the same capacity to learn but its the early years that are so important.Kick the bullies out.All they do is bring other kids down to their level

[Arrrfa]

Yeah. I agree with your reasons but kicking the bullies out?

[hugo199410]

ok,i am centered, clark by doin that is sort of bribing, but that doesnt mean john is rite.

[tristanjamessmith]

200 million, not that much of a mish for the government. Its equal to one years profit of a large company e.g Telcom. Keys is a wank.. think i'll vote for winston lol

[bobmcme1]

K smack my ass plz!!! s

[Phillll1982]

Great question Andrew. Helen claims that this is NOT a bribe to win student votes. Then why the f*** didn't she do it nine years ago? I am sick of the bribing campaigning BS! Students have been asking for this for YEARS. And who does she think she is? "I've always had a dream" - Martin Luther King?

Last election she bribed students with interest free loans - it worked. She is trying the same trick. Don't eat another shit sandwich from Aunty Helen. They taste awful.

[georgewtwat]

exactly! Only comes through at election time - shock horror.  If Labour win this election it just proves there are more people suckingon the state tit than contributing. The smart ones are the ones leaving. NZ needs a change of direction.

[Phillll1982]

I agree - a change of direction would be good. I've started a blog I feel so strongly about it. It's at 2008electionnewzealand on the blog spot web site. Please feel free to get on board and join the debate.

[riverheadrider69]

visit infowars for the trith

[riverheadrider69]

truth sorry

[izzyspace]

Go LABOUR!

[g1980p]

Why?

[mcclup02]

helens got a deeper voice then john, biga balls 2...

[Operaphile]

My mum teaches reading recovery and special needs half and half at a decile 1 school and a decile 9 school in a small town. At both schools she has to buy her own pens, pencils, stationery, whiteboard markers and even stickers to reward good work. The reason she works at 2 schools - Ministry bureaucrats keep cutting funding for reading recovery in the decile 1 school, despite the skyrocketing number of children requiring it. More front-line funding, less back-office hui's and paper shuffling!!!!

[seiko1978]

key is helens bitch

[menzo22MHD]

mai old school didnt give ID cards (so you couldnt ride child on the bus) if you didnt pay the donation!!! so i think that goes totaly against what helen said so John key is right!!!

MHD

[mcclup02]

al this talk about investing in NZ future and intellectual capital..from the students today..an they cant even support students sufficiently..

[crazednz]

What aload of crap, yea schools dont force you to pay as such, what they do is they put pressure on your kids, or link items to the donations. A local school here links yearbooks etc to the donations, so if you dont pay the donations, you cant buy the yearbook, or they call the donations a fee for a subject, so that you have to pay it otherwise your child misses out on equipment for a subject, they get you to pay it anyway they can.

[OECD22kiwi]

Hard to believe Helen thinks she can get away with the student allowance bribe.

She's going to get a rude shock on 8 November.

[drwcos]

Labour's universal student allowance is too late for me. If it's going to take 4 years for them to roll it out then by that time, it's very likely I'm finished with university. It's funny that Labour announced its student allowance plan just before the election. Same thing happened at the last election when they mention that Labour would eliminate interest on student loans.

[drwcos]

CONTINUE:

National's policy on education is something I really like. Assessing students from an early age is something that should be done in order to see the abilities of the students from an early age and not until when they are in High School. This round, my vote goes to National.

[simonbrewsax]

I currently study abroad for my masters after study at Massey NZ. It was a shock to discover how behind NZ is in giving its students more support. Here in Europe students are issued with much greater financial assistance. Also here students have cards for free public transport during the week. So naturally I would expect after nine years this would be the next step. Labour has made good moves to get us to offering a general student allowance.

[mumyknowz]

the overall judgement from this debate should be who can lead with longevity, lead with without lumping our company with nothing in treasury, lead without loosing touch with our countries reality? experience counts but s actions always speak louder than words,and sadly for helen this is all shes good at! promises with a deficit of inaction.

[mcclup02]

helen owned key

[mcclup02]

hi josh wite froom wuckland...faaarkk offf! hahaa

[bernardmarianovella]

1. Okay so John Key is owning Helen

2. But just because the statistics don't stand up with her policies, who says John Keys statistics will stack up with his policies either!

[Changleen]

It's not about who interrupted the most, they both interrupted the other when they felt they were being misrepresented.

Labour in the last few years has encouraged a system that is actually scared to recognise or to place a value on real achievement both in schools and in real life.

National just wants to restore some reality to the situation. NZ needs that. You can't pretend it's OK or justified that a ten year old can't do basic maths.

[KevinAtSeven]

Wow - didn't think my video would make it!

[kingofstuff811]

Helen Clark got wasted!!! w00t!! the statistics John Key showed was outstanding

[xLethalCocktailx]

Why does it seem politicians have to show such a lack of manners! The audience wants to hear what either has to say, I was trying to listen to Helen's answer at the end there and he just rudely keeps interrupting. SHUT UP! Grrrr.

[celebstar]

Helen was the one rudely interrupting during nearly everything John Key said. She was the one who wouldn't let him get a word in.

[xLethalCocktailx]

Did you actually watch the entire debate?!!?? I am not just referring to this clip, I am referring to the entire . I certainly am not biased either, I went in thinking I was going to vote for a minority party (and still might). I have had a lot of trouble trying to figure who I am going to vote for and after seeing this debate I certainly am not voting for Key!

[KevinAtSeven]

Watch the entire debate again. Count how many times Helen talks over Key, and vice versa. I think you'll be unpleasantly surprised at just how rude Clark is.

[xLethalCocktailx]

Both are rude, no one is debating that fact! Although Key interrupts and keeps talking and talking first (usually). That is certainly how it came across to me, although the only bias I could have is wanting to listen to Clark's answering and Key interrupts and I can't hear a damn thing. 2 days ago I was sure I was voting National, now I am sure I'm not - now I have to figure out who I will be.

And while I would love to watch the entire debate again I think I had enough the first time!!

[JosiaMFire2]

sorry but I noticed Helen Clark speaking out over also.

[whitireia]

agreed...