xxxThePeachxxx's fundamentalism - An open letter to prostitution legalisation advocates

[casualflocks]

I was prostituted for ten years. I love your videos. Thank you for being in the world.

[Scifimaster92]

Of course, I seriously doubt that most so-called "sex-positives" would really be willing to admit that they are fundamentalists, since most of them probably subscribe to the pseudoscience of biological essentialism, which includes the idea that women are born partly sex objects. They will inevitably use this particular argument (in a poorly-disguised form) to justify prostitution and pornography.

[WarmLittleDiamond90]

I'll add that I'm not a supporter of prostitution, though I don't think this is in conflict with my support of the rights of sex-workers. I don't believe in coal-mining either, but I believe coal-miners have the right not to be exploited by their employers. By keeping the sex industry on the fringe of what' s acceptable, we force it underground where more wo/men can be harmed without them having the ability to ask for help for fear of being charged for solicitation. .

[WarmLittleDiamond90]

I'm not going to bother looking for the evidence you require to support some argument; look for yourself. However, I will say this; legalising prostitution makes it possible for prostitutes who have been sexually or otherwise physically assaulted to report these incidences without fear of being prosecuted themselves. If a sex-worker is mistreated s/he should be able to report it, & have others know that sex-workers have a right to safety, just workers in other professions have.

[NotADood]

@WarmLittleDiamond90 The Swedish model does legalize prostitution and gives prostituted women and girls legal recourse in case of abuse, including being trafficked or coerced into prostitution in the first place.

[Scifimaster92]

She (xxxThePeachxxx) also made that horrible video (ironically entitled "The Female Misogynist") where she accused BoundlessEyes of sex-shaming and victim-blaming, despite the fact that not only does she (xxxThePeachxxx) herself engage in these tactics regularly, but the video features her defending two other users (ZOMGItsCriss and LaciGreen) who also use these tactics on a regular basis.

[the1janitor]

I don't understand the proposal here. If sex for money became legal, then the illegal aspect of it would naturally disappear, because it's not illegal anymore. There would be no "illegal" prostitution. Prostitution and human trafficking are two completely unrelated things, and it's sort of disappointing that we're comparing them. Legalizing prostitution would eliminate 'pimps' as we know them today, because no woman is going to forgo her right to police protection just to be abused by a pimp.

[NotADood]

@the1janitor It's legal in Nevada and prostituted women there are abused all the time. They're pretty much treated like livestock.

[the1janitor]

@NotADood I'm pretty sure that's not true, but whatever.

[NotADood]

@the1janitor Oh well if you're pretty sure then that settles it. Why does anybody even bother conducting research on anything.

[the1janitor]

@NotADood "but whatever" You strawman your opponents arguments. You equate prostitution with human trafficking. The argument that "prostitution should be illegal, because people are going to do it illegally anyway" is ludicrous, not only because it doesn't make sense, but also because it's obviously not true. Look at alcohol and abortion for example. Your 'challenge' is ridiculous because as I said in my original comment, no one will choose to be pimped if they have other options.

[NotADood]

@the1janitor Women are pimped where prostitution is legal. That's what brothels are. They're denied mental health care that they need because they have PTSD from being repeatedly raped and beaten by "clients" and are starved when whoever runs the brothel decides they're getting too fat or need to be shown who's in charge, just for starters. If you're not even willing to look into the reality of it, then you have no business arguing on the issue. The happy hooker is a myth.

[the1janitor]

@NotADood Also, I can provide tons of examples of both legal and illegal prostitution where the workers are safe and happy, but I'm sure you have examples of the contrary. You can not argue that harm-reduction WON'T happen with legalization. That's complete nonsense. Workers will have access to the police. That ALONE reduces harm.

[mizakzee]

On the topic of harm reduction, are you against walmart?

[nails3jesus0]

THANK YOU. I get so sick of this bullshit from libertarians and gender traitors like peach.

[voldemortsjihad]

I love your challenge at the end. "..admit that you don't give a shit about people." Tell it! :)

[abortionasiaCOCKROCK]

why do you hate hookers so much. just because you're a virgin doesn't give you the right to get all butthurt.

[DianatheDefender]

Well, I'm back again to see that not one of these morons have answered you at all. Excellent video. I see iamcuriousblueballs is losing his shit on this comment section and is having his pesky lil delusions again that he's talking to me. They don't give a shit about people. I would've thought that was obvious but I'm glad you pointed it out nonetheless. Like Jedi said, these people are so obsessed, they talk to other ppl as if they're me! LOOOOOOL

[abortionasiaCOCKROCK]

@DianatheDefender So have you ever got a hooker? No? Well how can you say that prostitution is a bad thing when you have never tried it?

I think that prostitution should be a government-subsidized industry, frankly. There are too many sexually repressed idiots like this rebelofumpires guy making stupid-ass videos.

[Valkyriefury]

I'm glad we have another white male to tell us what we should and should not do with our bodies.

[rubbleofempires]

@Valkyriefury Nice Ad Hominem.

[Valkyriefury]

@rubbleofempires Nice privilege blindness.

[Valkyriefury]

@rubbleofempires Also, a shitload of the vids you've liked are ridiculously transphobic and homophobic. This is pathetic.

[rubbleofempires]

@Valkyriefury Please, elaborate.

[NotRyanFaulk]

@Valkyriefury obviously rubbleofempires is an extremely stupid person, but to disregard his opinion because he's a white male is absurd. Who should one listen to instead of white males? Should one listen to the socially conservative racial socialism of the black and "hispanic" populations? Should we only listen to the opinions of white females, who on aggregate have political views ever so slightly to the left of white males but are still mostly in alignment with them?

[nails3jesus0]

@Valkyriefury Being able to safely sell sex is exclusive to people who have a shitload of privilege to begin with. All these people proclaiming that their right to do so is more important than the practical consequences of forced prostitution (which constitutes the majority of prostitution) is fucking ridiculous. Why don't you care about the common prostitute? Why should the few be more important than the many?

[FORGEDinRENO]

Let me guess, no one has replied to your video yet? lol Yeah they know they can't answer your questions. They are probably just hoping they can change the issue before anyone notices how shallow their stand point is.

[laurelinintherain]

Excellent vid. The thing is, making the purchase of sex illegal doesn't 'stop people doing what they want with their bodies' anyway, because it doesn't stop people having as much consensual sex as they like. It takes the money part away. And no-one has a right to purchase sex with money. So the 'freeeeeeeedom' argument doesn't even work on a very basic level.

[volnay853]

So what is New Zealand's reality? Decrease in prostitution? Nope. Decrease in Trafficking? None to start with and no change. Decrease in pimping? None to start with and no change. So what harm reduction has occurred? Equal right under the law for police protection from violence. Prosecution of child sex offenders. Prosecution of police involved in blackmailing women in the industry.

[rubbleofempires]

@volnay853 Can you site any evidence to show that child sex offenders or police involved in blackmailing prostitutes are being prosecuted more?

[RolandOnTheRoad]

Can someone point me in the direction of a study on the model used in The Netherlands? Namely, legalization for all involved, but regulation. And how it effected prostitution rates. Keeping in mind that most prostitutes in Amsterdam are migrating for work in safer conditions.

[niriop]

Accusing ThePeach of fundamentalism? A case of the pot calling the kettle black?

And all of a sudden sex-positive feminists aren't feminists now?

[cannibalcountry]

@niriop - Oh she totally is. if trafficking increases and teen prostitution increases after legalization - MORE people's freedoms are being taken away. that's why her claim that her view is ALL about freedom is bogus. Because she's only looking at the freedom in the context of people who are privileged enough to decide whether they want to prostitute or not (which makes up a very small minority of all sex workers, world wide).

[cannibalcountry]

Boundlesseyes - I Freaked out at thepeach for telling you, you have sexual hang-ups because you think it's cheap to use cleavage to get subs... She really pissed me off with that logical fallacy. I was going to make a vid this summer asking the question: "what is a sexual hang-up" - everones opinion will differ on that question.

[freethinkeronice]

I can't escape the impression at this point the proponents of legalized prostitution put the needs and wants of men requiring sexual services on the same level as or maybe even above concerns for making sure no one is forced or harmed in prostitution. Still clinging to" legalization solves everything" lala land despite the facts seems little more than a way to cover up what is a stand that's morally completely bankrupt, maybe even for themselves.

[freethinkeronice]

I have noticed this rejection of the facts in favor what is preferred to be believed. Because it concerns very serious issues that shocks and disgusts me. For years I was and in theory maybe still am in favor of legal, safe prostitution but the facts, real life examples seem to show it doesn't work as a way to reduce crime and harm while the Swedish model is effective. Question of prioritites I think

[hugesinker]

"Harm reduction" is absurd on its face if used as the sole-factor for justifying legislation. We could pass laws to force everyone to always wear shoes, a helmet, and drive 25MPH when they go outside and reduce harm quite a bit. We could put a camera up everyone's ass and increase safety. Liberty IS a valid consideration; so is "harm reduction"; so is "cost and efficiency". There is simply more to consider than just healthy survival. People don't just want a life, they want to live.

[hugesinker]

What reduces trafficing is a crackdown on trafficing. Arguments for ancillary regulation, such as the "Swedish model", are a waste of time. Common sense says that the prostitutes end up needing to try to protect their customers in ways that increases their anonymity. That's what makes it a dumb idea. Human trafficking is a separate issue. However, legalizing an activity makes it more open and less expensive to operate, making it more likely that it out-competes any illegal competition.

[vasarasx]

@hugesinker legalising is very expensive, and illegal activity only grows as the industry expands including trafficking. Sweden cuts of any growth, thus trafficking as well which never will happen in a legal setting. 

[hugesinker]

@vasarasx If legalizing is expensive, you're doing it wrong. The industry and/or customers should be paying to regulate themselves-- it shouldn't cost anyone else a dime. There are substantial costs associated with operating in a black market, and these deliver a poorer, less-safe, and less ethical product or service. Obviously, the rational decision for anyone who buys the service of prostitutes would be to reduce the chances of contracting an STD. How much is this alone worth?

[Bellybusterr]

I think what she's saying is the law affects innocent people ie the voluntary prostitutes. Is it worth any cost to stop trafficking? I don't think it's fair to ban driving just to stop drunk drivers.

[iamcuriousblue]

Ideas like "freedom", "liberty", etc, are abstract guiding ideas which, I agree, can become very twisted, re, George Bush, "they hate us for our freedom". It seems your response is to denounce the very concept rather than the false application of it. That puts you in an odd position as an "anarchist" in that you embrace a set of wholly authoritarian left politics and then somehow do mental cartwheels to make it fit "anarchism". Honestly, I don't even know why you bother with the label.

[iamcuriousblue]

@iamcuriousblue

Essentially, you've bought fully into the feminist equivalent of Leninist ideology. Iremythpurr has at least figured that out, you have yet to.

[iamcuriousblue]

I'm pretty underwhelmed by the so-called "evidence" that Sweden had a huge human trafficking problem to begin with, or that they've truly reduced prostitution across the board compared to other countries. Whenever we have these debates on specifics, and the shortcomings of the studies you anti-sex industry people trot out, you don't debate specifics, you just shout down. So who's ignoring evidence and logical argument here.

[amet1980]

of course.

apples and oranges.

you and them aren't debating .you are talking in cross purposes; consequence of having 2 different motions/theses.

THEY are putting forward ambiguous notions of sexual liberation and "natural right"(?) of body independence.

YOU are focusing in suffering reduction policies.

very rarely someone of them is honest: quoting y proponent : " im not concerned if prostitution or trafficking grows as a result -of legalization-.personal rights cant be expropriated "

[BoundlessEyes]

Heh. Heh. Heh.

I have to say, it's not very big of me as a person, but I'm really enjoying this newfound dislike of the Peach, having had her shoved down my throat for years.

[rubbleofempires]

@BoundlessEyes Yeah, I didn't know about the backlash around Coughlan when I uploaded this. But really, it isn't a personal attack.

[BoundlessEyes]

@rubbleofempires Fuck it, did you see her completely disregard my video to Criss in favour of repeatedly telling me 'fuck you'? Save your sympathy for someone who actually debates.

[SkidRowRadio]

this is a good follow up to your previous video... a compromise maybe? ok so you did mention someone specifically but you presented your argument in completely rational, non ass-holey ways. and yea, its quite depressing that sooo many so called 'free thinkers' wont notice their leaders using the exact same tactics as the fundies they criticise.

great arguments, great video.

[SaelPalani]

Good one Rubble. They can't do it. Legalization increases demand and increases the illegal industry. But hey, I gotta hand it to you, you're gonna have a gajillion PM's about all kinds of kooky shit. Oh and please do share, I would love to see what the dealers push.

[Weaselheadx]

How can you have the copyright on harm? Isn't it harmful for people to go to jail and prison? Isn't it harmful to force people to pay to sustain your idealism? It takes thuggery to sustain these laws which means added taxes and of course more thugs to force people to pay these taxes.

[shEvoDEevolution]

@Weaselheadx so your problem isn't thugs, it's just state funded thugs?

[vasarasx]

I made the comparison with the religious myself, too. The fact the pro-legalizers/'freedomlovers' dont take facts and studies and evidence into account makes them just as the religious they so abhor.

[rubbleofempires]

@vasarasx sweet. Do you have a specific video?

[vasarasx]

@rubbleofempires you mean a specific video where they ignore evidence? My experience with most of them is whatever you present as evidence, they ignore and deny unless it is in their favor. In commentsections this happens too many times. I cant think of a particular video, there are too many.

[rememberthediamonds]

And to the nut jobs that are suggesting that everyone and their brother is more important than kidnapped and forced people. How about this? Fuck you. Thanks.

[elizkawalizka3]

Prostitution is not going away, it always was and will be. I think its about time that we look at the things for what they are. We can exclude this people from society and prosecute them or let them work legally and pay taxes like everyone does. And I know that it is not going to solve many of the problems you talk about.

Still !!! People should have that option.

[rememberthediamonds]

@elizkawalizka3 So basically you know nothing of this topic and have not listened to a word of what is being said. Murder is not going away. Neither is rape. But gee, policies can be right or wrong, hinder or help those issues. Legalization of sex services causes massive human rights violations. When it's illegal these issues are reduced. Deal with it.

[elizkawalizka3]

@rememberthediamonds Yes I have listened. I live in Amsterdam and I know all about on going problems here and in Europe. I don't need you to educate me.

Your argument about murder and rape is retarded.

[shEvoDEevolution]

@elizkawalizka3 So an industry that is going to create more harm than good, increase human trafficking, increase all sorts of crime is ok because you think it's "not going away". I think this " it always will be" attitude is defeatist. It "always will be" as long as people, men in particular, think it's ok to use other people as objects of their sexual gratification and dehumanize them.

[rememberthediamonds]

Also the dishonesty of claiming this is a rule about what people can do with their bodies. It's a rule about what people can do with commercial practices, what we buy and sell, etc. There are no inherent rights related to commercial trade, and to suggest those commercial interests trump human rights is fucking disgusting. The more I study this subject the more I feel APPROPRIATE anger that these lairs are not going to shame me or bully me out of . They need to handle information properly.

[rememberthediamonds]

her crafty language, "but in fact", well peach you fail, because guess what, it DOES reduce problems for Sweden. It's proven. The "liberty" god fails in that why are thousands of stolen people's liberties not at issue here? Peach should be forced to work in a brothel since she can't be fucking assed to care about it. Legal sex industry businesses including massage parlors are run by criminals. Madames and hookers have repeatedly said, "it's legalized pimping"

[rememberthediamonds]

"admit that you don't give a shit about people" and she's just flat out fucking wrong legalization STEALS people and tells them you NO LONGER have liberty over your body. It STEALS liberty. These people are monsters. They care nothing about this topic. I have looked up the supposed "other side" and there is nothing there. They have empty information and make incredible claims like people "refuse rescue" but gee there are no details available. But trafficking groups will report DETAILS and....

[rememberthediamonds]

and you will find that women were promised one job then gang raped to do another "job", her family had signed over their home to get her transport to another country and their families are now at the mercy of financial ruin, or real ruin at the hands of crim orgs. So t;hey say, "I was asked by police if I was trafficked and I SAID NO" , her liberty doesn't matter right? LEGAL BUSINESSES attract this officials in Canada report that trafficked people have been found at every form of legal sextrade

[xxxild]

@rememberthediamonds ffs booboo you can point to all kinds of horrors in the world you shouldn't be blaming it on everyone else who didn't commit the crime and their brother.

[rubbleofempires]

@xxxild But can you point to an answer to my questions?

[xxxild]

@rubbleofempires Did someone get out on the "gimme gimme gimme" side of the bed? Some of which, I did witness, you've been given already via PM. Now you wait.

[rubbleofempires]

@xxxild Oooh that smarts!

[OnlyTheLonely1s]

@xxxild I know what you did.. you disgusting individual.

[gRaYTaiCho]

@xxxild What are you talking about exactly? Please be clear with any accusations you'd like to make, and it'd be nice if you'd present some evidence to back them up.

[xxxild]

@gRaYTaiCho I didn't make an accusation, noob. I stated a fact. Have a nice day.

[gRaYTaiCho]

@xxxild "you shouldn't be blaming it on everyone else who didn't commit the crime and their brother"

What part of that nonsense is a fact? If you're privvy to some facts then please enlighten us. But no, you'd rather make a vague accusation, call it a fact without demonstrating anything, and run away. You've got nothing.

Have a nice day, n00b.

[RadicalSyndicate]

are you doing this for some sadist kick? she's a clown .. this is like watching mike tyson pummel carrot top

[rubbleofempires]

@RadicalSyndicate But I'm actually trying (struggling!!) not to be an asshole. :) Glad your finding it entertaining though.

[iremythpurr]

So with that in mind, how do we craft an approach that acknowledges the intense injustice of that fact and does everything in its power to deter people from exploiting that and putting money into actually helping people out of that desperation?

[iremythpurr]

Apparently human trafficking isn't as big an issue in New Zealand (imagine! at the end of the world human trafficking isn't as high as in most other legal industries) but there's still a lot of issues such as underage and illicit prostitution. The fact is if you are going to accept prostitution as legitimate you're going to have to acknowledge that as long as we live in a world where there's social stratification desperate people (women) are going to sell themselves regardless of legality.

[vasarasx]

@iremythpurr one reason in New Zealand trafficking might be lower is a geographic one, having to do with their isolated place on the map + some of their immigration laws. In Europe with open borders and only land to travel through, it's much easier to traffick people.

[iamcuriousblue]

@vasarasx

"one reason in New Zealand trafficking might be lower is a geographic one, having to do with their isolated place on the map"

You really don't think that applies to Sweden too? Not to mention the very different social and political nature of Swedish society more generally?

[vasarasx]

@iamcuriousblue Sweden had to deal with the trafficking from the Baltic states, Im not sure if you can compare the two countries.

[amet1980]

@vasarasx N.Zealand is 2000 km of deadly ocean away from AUstralia. and 6-8000 km from the nearest sexslaves exporting country,Indonesia. traffickers need to pass the deadly malay archipelagos to reach AU, and from there somehow travel another 6000km to NZ.

SWeden is 100 km from from major sexslave exporting countries,with porous borders from every side.

even so by NZ standards,SW inorder to be as "successful" needed to have 20 000 mainly sami (impoverished minority-maori n NZ)prostitutes..

[vasarasx]

@amet1980 thanks for that interesting information.

[iamcuriousblue]

@vasarasx

"Sweden had to deal with the trafficking from the Baltic states"

And now they deal with it by simply deporting those sex workers back to the Baltic countries.

[vasarasx]

@iamcuriousblue didnt Sweden change that law? Im not sure.

[OnlyTheLonely1s]

@iamcuriousblue Yeah you got nothing...... lol...booohooo....

[OnlyTheLonely1s]

@iamcuriousblue "You really don't think that applies to Sweden too? Not to mention the very different social and political nature of Swedish society more generally?"

lol get an altas out you dumbass. New Zeland only really has one border ti protect and they don't even need to protect it by land. Stokholm in Sweden is one of the busiest communter cities in Europe.

You talk so much bullshit you probably believe it.... sheeesh

[iamcuriousblue]

@OnlyTheLonely1s

Hi Diana – I'm actually quite aware of what Sweden's land boundaries are, thank you very much, and, in any event, since when does a country require land boundaries for either immigration or human trafficking to occur? Big red herring there. And you still haven't addressed the question of the applicability of the "Nordic model" to other countries with very different social and political systems.

[OnlyTheLonely1s]

@iamcuriousblue "I'm actually quite aware of what Sweden's land boundaries are, thank you very much" yet you think they are comparible to New Zealand... which makes you either thick as shit or just a dishonest fucktard. I think I will go for the latter.

Also its also easier to smuggle by land than by airport.... its the difference between miles of boarder and one heavily guarded entry point.

Furthermore.. just becaus ei pawned your stupid ass doesn;t mean i'm Diana.

[SkidRowRadio]

@iremythpurr derp. i never put that particular 2 and 2 together.. yea ive heard them bleat on about the new zealand example.. but duuuuur its fuckin further away than the sun!! (also has much stricter boarder controls/immigration laws than most countries i do believe).

[iremythpurr]

@SkidRowRadio

Well regardless it really hasn't made the fundamentals of prostitution any better in New Zealand. There's still plenty of harm going on.

[DahStranger]

@iremythpurr I don't think anyone is denying this will happen. From what I can tell, they acknowledge the imperfect nature of what they advocate, but this comment gave me an opportunity to ask something. The Divinity crowd seems to be in favor of changes that will put women in a situation in which they are not economically coerced into prostitution. In fact, FeministWhore was the first person to explain the wage gap thing(disproving Warren Ferrel). What purpose does the poverty argument serve?

[iremythpurr]

other terms I've heard of to call advocates of legalization are pornofundamentalists and liberal hedonists. You might want to add that to yr tags.

The truly horrific thing is when people try to mask their prostitution advocacy with feminist language or language of freedom (TM). I wish they would just be honest that they don't give a shit about either.

From what I understand most sex pozzes/so-called advocates seem to be fond of the New Zealand model, I suggest researching it. (continued...)

[iamcuriousblue]

@iremythpurr

"The truly horrific thing is when people try to mask their prostitution advocacy with feminist language or language of freedom (TM). I wish they would just be honest that they don't give a shit about either."

Care to make a case for that, or will this simply be more projection coming from you?

I see the "freedom (tm)" rhetoric making the rounds among you people. Convenient brush-off for anybody who doesn't buy into your "the collective trumps individual rights" BS.