Gingrich and McConnell Discuss the GOP Running on Paltform of Repealing Health Care Reform Bill

[s46d45m17]

He is another paracite that lives off the tax payer.

[disturbed341]

Hey Mitch and Newt have a heart attack and die you scum bags.

[Gark50]

Of course republicans will run on Repealing the Health Care Reform Bill, what else are they going to run on, their own accomplishments?

[jenisoutofhermind]

Vote them all out start with all new!

[pure2warrior]

We are ingaged in 2 wars that we started, the finance of the country has been intentionaly collapsed by th Rothshcild bank, Industry has been moved out of the country the population has been dumbed down. and all we want to to is talk about what health care what a huge JOKE.

[doink1422]

i'll laugh when republicans lose in 2010 and 2012. because they tried to stop the bill

[clnmike]

Most corrupt? He has to be joking.

[RoseSkye]

Yeah... no. It's the republicans fault that the bill is a watered down piece of shit. I didn't have anything against the GOP this year... but damn if my hatred for them isn't a towering festering mount of hatred.

[PersonalJesus348]

I still can't believe this man's first name is newt...

I don't believe in conspiracies. But its hysterical that there's one suggesting our elite are Alien Lizard People.

Ain't that right Newt?

[TrollBuster9090]

Newt: noun. Any of a number of small, brightly colored lizards or salamanders of the family Salamandridae. Any small lizard that can change its appearance to suit its surroundings.

Sounds pretty appropriate to me. But yeah, I'm still waiting for somebody to rip his rubber mask off, and discover that the "Contract with America" was really a plot to steal the Earth's water, and encouraging global warming to melt the polar ice caps was just a small part of it.

[pure2warrior]

You GOP scum you dont get it you betrayed your party members and we will never forgive or forget what you did ROn PAUL was the only candidate worth a vote and you cheated and lied to us to block him.. We know the truth and if you tryed to give me a million fiat debt issue dollars I would never again support you scum that said The demoncrats have never ever had support from me. Bad luck GOP and hope to see you all in prison soon.

[whosthechamp]

This makes me smile: Seeing the Conservatives split on all sides.

Just keep splintering into smaller and smaller factions that cannot work together.

Libertarians, Tea Partiers, Conservatives....

Keep up the great work! Maybe, just maybe us Dems will follow suit and break into three parties: Blue Dogs, Liberals and Progressives.

Id love to put the Blue Dogs on an ice floe.

lol

[pure2warrior]

THere are no parties the puppets have their strings pulled by the same Rothshcild family the media controled by the same. If you think splintering the 2 party system will help sorry to say while its a good idea its a fantisy and an illusion. Follow the FIAT DEBT ISSUE AT USURY money to the immoral theft debt collection of the debt slaves and you can see a clear picture of the truth. But hey dont do any research or try to understand all that BS I just spewed continue to support you side.

[RUKiddinMeHuh]

mitch's top lip doesn't move.

[ukcharlie73]

It's a crap bill that does not go far enough. It's a cop out. Republicans need to step up and be involved on the process. However saying that the parties are so polarized that nothing gets done. Do we not need the middle of both parties to become independent if we are to move the country forward??

[junkforkaryn]

go ahead and repeal it, the damn thing looks like an ugly republican child.

[Pleblian]

If anybody, actually listened, to what these republican politicians where saying, they would be out of seats. They just don't make a lick of sense

"Whether it becomes law, or even if it doesn't, this bill will be the central issue come the 2010 or even 2012 elections".

Well, it's not law, there's still more "haggling" to do.

If anyone gets elected it will independents not republicans, the country has had enough of your shit.

[JCJ77]

You know there is a large segment of people who don't want corporatism in health care. Corporatism is already rampant in national defense and has been since WW II. Putting Hitler mustaches on Bush and Obama are valid forms of protest because of the corporatism these 2 administrations have supported.

[jasonsadventure]

ah jcj77,

if your saying that "a large segment of people" want a single payer, government run health care system (i.e. don't want corporatism) i agree but "a large segment" is irrelevant not being majority.

i'm relatively progressive and though i despise how the insurance industry profits from death, i not sure i would trade kaiser permanente for the va.

[JCJ77]

@jasonsadventure

A single payer system would be the most attractive of the marxist flavored plans, but for either kind of plan a majority wouldn't matter as it's likely a constitutional amendment would be necessary for it to be legal because we live in a republic and not a democracy.

I would chose neither a chancellor nor a bureaucrat.

[jasonsadventure]

@jcj77

"either kind of plan [requires] a constitutional amendment?"

why is that? we have single payer plans already? what constitution precept is violated by a single payer plan?

[JCJ77]

The constitution does not enumerate redistribution of wealth as a power. The states are free to engage in single player plans.

[jasonsadventure]

sorry bro, you're wrong.

if by the vague phrase "redistribution of wealth" you mean individual taxation, the constitution does enumerate this power in the sixteenth amendment, ratified in 1913

"the congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several states, and without regard to any census or enumeration"

[pure2warrior]

Do some more home work not ratified illegal and unconstitutional as are most of what you wonderful government does but hey keep it up you doing fine good luck pal. I wish somone would come and steal everything you own so you would understand what theft is hey better yet make you sit and watch while they threaten you ITS CALLED EXTORTED THEFT no matter what bs you want to say about an amendment or a constitution you must not even be human

[JCJ77]

Sorry bra ur wrong,

Redistribution of wealth is not vague it not only has an implied meaning it also has a historical meaning. If you think the phrase is vague then you have obviously lived in a vacuum your entire life.

The 16th amendment allows taxing, it doesn't allow handing money out money to whom ever wants it. Copy and paste the enumerated power of giving people money who want it.

[jasonsadventure]

your answer underscores my point as follows. if...

a) the 16th amendment allows individual income tax, and

b) article 1 section 8 allows that collected income to be distributed in the form of services then

c) "redistribution of wealth" (i.e. collecting taxes and providing services) is not only constitutional but specifically enumerated as power of the federal government.

d) conclusion, you are wrong (Q.E.D)..... bra.

unless of course you need to redefine your not-vague term.

[JCJ77]

If redistribution of wealth was enumerated you would have been able to copy and paste an enumerated power stating such. But you did not because you can not.

[jasonsadventure]

i did exactly that

1) redistribution of wealth = (a) taxation + (b) providing services

2) point a is enumerated in the 16th amendment and

3) point b is enumerated in article 1 section 8

as a mater of logic, your claim that "you didn't pasted it ergo it doesn't exist" is just plain grade-school silly

moreover, the supreme court, constitution scholars and policy makers all across the political ideological spectrum agree redistribution is well within government power, they disagree on its use

[JCJ77]

Logic would dictate an enumerated power would actually be written in the constitution. The power of government is not limited by the constitution as you have inadvertently pointed out. Grade school silly is trying to assert something is there when it obviously isn't.

moreover, the supreme court, constitution scholars and policy makers all across the political ideological spectrum agree warrant- less wiretapping is well within government power, they disagree on its use

[jasonsadventure]

wow

it's interesting how something actually written in the constitution, does not prevent you from saying it is not

it's interesting how took the my true quote "redistribution is well within government power" and made it the untrue quote "power of government is not limited"

it's interesting how you evade the irrefutable argument that redistribution is a constitutional power by falsely claiming wireless wiretaps are constitutional

i can't find one correct assertion in your last post

[JCJ77]

No where in the constitution does it say "take from people who have earned a lot of money and give it to people who have not earned a lot of money."If the founders and the writers of the 16th amendment wanted that to happen then they would have said is specifically.The warrant-less wiretapping is in the same category as not being an enumerated power and I used the exact argument you used to support redistribution of wealth.The act circumventing the constitution shows government powerhasnolimits

[jasonsadventure]

ah... so your powers over time and space are such that you ignore what is written because you know what the framers wanted? wow.

its constitutional for the government power to tax income as it chooses - point blank, period.

however, your irrational and imagined limit to this enumerated power is unconstitutional

conversely, wire-taps without a warrant is a violation of the 4th amendments unreasonable search and seizure provisions

do you define "unconstitutional" as anything you don't like?

[JCJ77]

Power over time and space to know what some one thought in the past is not necessary when you have books. Yes the government can tax, I've never disputed that. Enumerated powers are boundaries to government power, they are very specific and limited in scope. I finally understand what is going on in this conversation- you have no idea what you are talking about in any way. If something appears in the US Code or in a SCOTUS decision, it doesn't necessarily mean it is constitutional.

[JCJ77]

Why do we vote for people who vote yes to warrantless wiretapping?

[JCJ77]

Redistribution of wealth is not an enumerated power btw.

[JCJ77]

The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts and excises, to pay the debts and provide for the common defense and general welfare of the United States; but all duties, imposts and excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

To borrow money on the credit of the United States;

To regulate commerce with foreign nations, and among the several states, and with the Indian tribes;

[JCJ77]

To establish a uniform rule of naturalization, and uniform laws on the subject of bankruptcies throughout the United States;

To coin money, regulate the value thereof, and of foreign coin, and fix the standard of weights and measures;

To provide for the punishment of counterfeiting the securities and current coin of the United States;

To establish post offices and post roads;

[JCJ77]

To promote the progress of science and useful arts, by securing for limited times to authors and inventors the exclusive right to their respective writings and discoveries;

To constitute tribunals inferior to the Supreme Court;

To define and punish piracies and felonies committed on the high seas, and offenses against the law of nations;

To declare war, grant letters of marque and reprisal, and make rules concerning captures on land and water;

[JCJ77]

To raise and support armies, but no appropriation of money to that use shall be for a longer term than two years;

To provide and maintain a navy;

To make rules for the government and regulation of the land and naval forces;

To provide for calling forth the militia to execute the laws of the union, suppress insurrections and repel invasions;

[JCJ77]

To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the militia, and for governing such part of them as may be employed in the service of the United States, reserving to the states respectively, the appointment of the officers, and the authority of training the militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;

[JCJ77]

To exercise exclusive legislation in all cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten miles square) as may, by cession of particular states, and the acceptance of Congress, become the seat of the government of the United States, and to exercise like authority over all places purchased by the consent of the legislature

[JCJ77]

of the state in which the same shall be, for the erection of forts, magazines, arsenals, dockyards, and other needful buildings;--And

To make all laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into execution the foregoing powers, and all other powers vested by this Constitution in the government of the United States, or in any department or officer thereof.

[JCJ77]

^^^^

Article I Section 8 of the US Constitution, I figured you needed a primer since you don't know what is in it. As you can see redistribution of wealth, confiscatory taxation, taking money from rich people to give it to poor people, bailouts, health care, etc etc. ARE NOT enumerated powers.

[jasonsadventure]

let's take this one step at a time.  you defined redistribution of wealth as "taking money from rich people and giving it to poor people"

this obviously has two parts. i keeping with the "one step at a time" approach, given the 16th amendment...

how is it "unconstitutional" to tax (i.e. taking money from) rich people?

[JCJ77]

The preamble of Article 1 section 8 and the 16th amendment both say taxes can be collected.I've said that several times. Maybe if I say it a few more times in different ways we can come to an agreement.Taxing anyone is not unconstitutional but the use of those funds can and have been obviously unconstitutional.Taxing is an enumerated power and the ways those taxes are distributed are dictated specifically in the constitution.The US government may tax and may spend according to the constitution.

[JCJ77]

When I've said taxes are constitutional.

"The 16th amendment allows taxing," 6 days ago

"Yes the government can tax, I've never disputed that." 12 hours ago

Now that I've shown you that a) taxes are constitutional and b) I've said taxes are constitutional. Let's move on to answering your questions about the purpose of taxation within the context of the constitution.

[jasonsadventure]

so now that you have acknowledged that "taking money from rich people" is constitutional,

then all that remains is determining is it constitutional for the government to "give it to poor people" is constitutional

the both the commerce and the necessary and proper clauses that you sited in article 1 section 8 gives congress broad powers to establish services and regulations for the poor from food stamps, to unemployment to tax credits, all are constitutional.

[JCJ77]

"To regulate commerce with foreign nations, and among the several states, and with the Indian tribes;" "To make all laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into execution the foregoing powers, and all other powers vested by this Constitution in the government of the United States, or in any department or officer thereof."

Stop lying, you see what both of those clauses say.

[JCJ77]

The odd liberal bourgeois ideas of the past century have not created the results they expected or perhaps they have.The urban blight and rural squalor haven't really gone away, they may have transformed, but they haven't gone away.Despite a century of evidence the idea of redistribution of wealth has not worked. Why would people who have never taken care of themselves, one day decide to do so if every need is met by someone else?If the state feeds, clothes, and shelters you, it owns you.

[JCJ77]

The internet is a trip.

The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are

willing to work and give to those who would not.

Thomas Jefferson

I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government

from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them.

Thomas Jefferson

You need to educate yourself by looking at the sources and not the analysis of the sources.

[dmp079]

When has the Repukeblicans did anything for medical treatment of the citizens of the United States, besides the crap they put through called Medicare D? NEVER had and NEVER will.

[Philinspaces]

These Republicreeps just won't go away. Newt is smarmy and O'Connell is in the pocket of the lobbyists. Face it, they need to go spend time on the ranch with ol' George and have a cup of widow's blood to celebrate their war on "terror".

[lhooq21]

The GOP has nothing!!!

[JamJells]

What else good can they really do? RIGHT!

[vallejoelgrande]

How am I not surprised that Republicans are planning to run agains--instead of for-- something that's good for most Americans?

GOP: the party of no.

GOP: the party of lies and obstruction.

GOP: the party of problems and no solutions.

[TheMrsSM]

McConnell is mincing words. yeah, people are opposed to this bill. That doesn't mean they're against govt taking over their healthcare. They're overwhelmingly in favor of that.

Do you favor or oppose, "Having a national health plan in which all Americans would get their insurance through an expanded, universal form of Medicare-for all?"

Favor 58%, Oppose 38%, NA/DK 3% Jul 2009

Other similar polls show 49%, 59%, etc etc.

[KataVideo]

Obama and the democratic congress aren't liberal enough.. that's why people are dissatisfied.

[AfricanMadman]

This shit ain't gonna work....

They'll jump for the first dollar that's thrown at them...

[capoate]

grotesque

[asphyxiafeeling]

GOP campaigned on repealing the Department of Education for years, it didn't get them anywhere.

Calling a bluff here!

[random0815]

their loss if they want to tolerate this demagogue filth, even the name "obamacare" is nonsense, obama didnt really do much about it, certainly nothing against republican interest, rather the opposit, he could have done little more to help them

the term alone shows their will to mislead and lie and their absurd facade of obama-contempt

[p00lman]

What scumbags.

[hozehd]

This reminded me of that republican debate last year where they asked Fred Thompson to give a simple yes or no answer to a loaded question and he refused. This was a loaded question and it was well answered.

[Z200a]

LOL, how exactly was it a loaded question? It was a direct, straightforward question.

[hozehd]

first of all he called it Obama care and we haven't even passed the bill yet. So he felt it necessary to preface his answer with" if the bill makes it into law, " I think that is appropriate.

[kargenlewis]

amazing the republicans acting like they are relevant and have any future except to be the most hated group of people in american history. f u republican pigs!

[funincluded]

I think I disagree with every talking point and false fact Newt mouth shits during this entire segment

[JOHNINCOLUMBUS]

The GOP are pissed because they want their buddies in the insurance industry to continue to rape the public with high premiums, denied coverage, and higher and higher profit margins for insurance companies to continue to carry on, business as usual with no regulation, these people are scum.

[IAMtheNewWorldOrder]

These people are fools.