"Free" Will: A Slave (C.H. Spurgeon) [1of4]

[TomOwenM]

It is essential to understand that we suffer from the bondage of the will, simply put that our wills prior to salvation are enslaved to sin and cannot choose Christ. Our salvation is all of grace. None of us would come to Christ had we not been regenerated by the Spirit followed by repentance, adoption, and ultimately glorification. Many Arminians claim to follow Spurgeon, while lacking a Biblical understanding of what he really taught which was thoroughly Biblical.

[MrRomans829]

THE ONLY ONE WHO HAS FREE-WILL IS GOD. READ EPH; 1;1-23. EPH;1-10. GA;3;23. ITS BY GRACE( GODS WILL )YOU ARE SAVED THROUGH FAITH WHICH IS A GIFT OF GOD LET NO MAN BOAST. MAN IS BOASTING WHEN HE SAYS THAT HE CAME TO GOD BY HIS CHOICE( FREE WILL). MEN TAKE THE GLORY AWAY FROM GOD WHEN THEY SAY THAT IT WAS BY THEIR CHOICE THAT THEY GOT SAVED, GOD DOES NOT SHARE HIS GLORY WITH ANOTHER. YOU ARE SAVED BY GODS GRACE NOT BY YOUR CHOICE. YOU CANT EVEN GO TO HELL IF YOU WANTED TO. READ; JUDE;4

[patriotsfan137]

may the LORD bless you and keep you

[patriotsfan137]

you used scripture before but I can see you do not understand romans ch;9 it is not of him who will or of him who runs but of GOD to have mercy FREEWILL IT'S NON EXISTANT

[patriotsfan137]

just your name lets me know you are a humanist with a curse word in it as far as using scripture it is the word of GOD something I see you don't care about you think your arguments are better

[patriotsfan137]

take the beam out of your own eye cause I might not be good in gramer but I KNOW FOR A FACT YOU MAKE MANY MISTAKES IN MANY DIFFERENT PLACES IN YOUR LIFE YOU ARE IMMATURE

[donsteigerwald]

To answer more spefically Spurgeon on this tape: I must assert that it is 100% true that no man comes to God of His own accord. However, this does not mean that people who do not come to Him do not do so because He has not influenced them.

No, but rather, as Jesus proclaimed "if I be lifted up, i will draw ALL men unto me".

God does the drawing, God does the saving. However, it is man who condemns himself, by his refusual to believe.

Whoever does not believe, is already condemned.

[patriotsfan137]

@donsteigerwald there is no one just no not one there is no one who understand there is no one WHO SEEKS GOD NO NOT ONE romans chapter 3 you think about that

[donsteigerwald]

@patriotsfan137 Thank you for your comment. You are absolutley correct, NO ONE COMES TO JESUS WITHOUT THE SOVEREIGN WORK OF GOD. However, His soveriegn work does not violate our ability to choose. The same word that declares that all are without excuse for rejecting God (Romans 1:20) is the same word that shows that it is man's will that separates them from God, therefore, WE have a choice and it is not predestined. What is predestined is the consequence for the choice we make.

[patriotsfan137]

@donsteigerwald 1ST CORINTHIANS ch 2 to the natural man the things of GOD are foolishness now if they are foolishness how can he come to GOD? there is no one no not one who seeks GOD romans ch 3 ;10 and on the naturel mind it's at enmity with GOD romans ch' 7 no one can come to ME unles the FATHER draws him now how can you say we have a choice if the bible says we of our own cannot choose GOD?

[donsteigerwald]

@patriotsfan137 Sir, thanks again for sharing. I do agree with you and isn't He awesome! God is SO good!

May you be filled to overflowing with His presence and may He be glorified in all ways in your life.

Hallelujah! Jesus Christ, the same yesterday, today and forever!

Blessings to you, my brother!

[apologeticsman]

@patriotsfan137 Yes, nobody can seek salvation unless they are called by God, but since God loves all men, wants all men to come to Him and CALLS all men, the inescapable conclusion is that the people who do not get saved are those who reject THE CALL. That is what free will is, not to do whatever I want to do at any time without God's interference, but to choose to reject or accept the Spirit's call to repentance. God does NOT lose sovereignty by giving us a choice

[joyousmon]

@apologeticsman How does God not lose sovereignty if He purposes that all be saved and yet not all are saved? Job 42:2 says "I know that You can do all things, and that no purpose of Yours can be thwarted" Wouldn't you say that man, by not choosing God, is thwarting God's purpose in sending His Son-if He sent Him for all mankind? In making God into a helpless beggar pleading for us to accept Him he loses His sovereignty, it is no longer He that is on the throne, but OUR will is being done.

[apologeticsman]

@joyousmon You simply have a skewed misunderstanding of sovereignty, and a lack of understanding of God's love. God IN HIS SOVEREIGNTY allows us a choice, BECAUSE of His love. It would not be love if He made the decision for us, unless He were to save all men. If God chose to exercise His sovereignty by choosing apart from our will who is saved, and who is lost, He then becomes the author of sin, and can not say He is not a respecter of persons. The only way is free will, otherwise we are robots

[MrRomans829]

@apologeticsman WHAT DOES ALL MEAN( FROM THE GREEK TEXTUS RECIEPTUS), WHAT DOES MEN MEAN? PUT IT TOGETHER DOES THAT MEAN EVERY INDIVIDUAL? WHAT DOES 2TH; 2;13 MEAN? WHAT DOES JOHN;6;39 MEAN? WHAT DOES JOHN;6;65 MEAN? WHAT DOES JOHN; 17;9 MEAN?

[apologeticsman]

@MrRomans829 all + all, every, each and every men = mankind, the race of men, human kind Now, try again.

[MrRomans829]

@apologeticsman THE PROBLEM WITH THIS IS THE ENGLISH. ALL IN THE GREEK IS( PAS ) WHICH MEANS THE WHOLE... MEN IN THE GREEK IS( ANTHROPAS) MEANS CERTAIN MEN. ANY TIME YOU PUT THE ALPHA DEPRIVITY IN FRONT OF A WORD IT NEGATES THE MEANING AND IT GIVES AND OPPOSITE MEANING. SO WE LOOK AT THIS AND WE ASKED WHO ARE THESE CERTAIN MEN? THE BELIEVERS WHICH IS THE CHURCH. THE SHEEP WHICH IS HIS FLOCK. NOW WHEN PUT TOGETHER GOD DESIRES ALL(THE WHOLE) MEN (THE FLOCK WHICH IS HIS CHURCH) TO BE SAVED)

[apologeticsman]

@MrRomans829 anthropos does not mean certain men, it means mankind, the race of men. That's everybody. God desires all men to be saved, but many will reject His love.

[MrRomans829]

@apologeticsman THATS WRONG YOU DEFINED THE WORD INCORRECTLY GO BACK AND FIND OUT WHAT THE ALPHA DEPRIVITY MEANS WHEN YOU PUT IT FRONT OF A WORD.

[MrRomans829]

@apologeticsman NOW IF IT WAS EVERY INDIVIDUAL, THEN WHY WOULD GOD SAY HE MAKE VESSELS OF HONOUR AND VESSELS OF DISHONOUR IN ROM;9;21. AND THE VESSELS OF MERCY WHICH HE HAD AFORE PREPAIRED(PAST TENSE) UNTO HIS GLORY, ROM;9;23. GOD MADE ALL THINGS UNTO HIMSELF EVEN THE WICKED FOR THE DAY OF EVIL. PROB; 16;4 GOD DECLARED THE END FROM THE BEGINNING. ISA;46;10

[apologeticsman]

@MrRomans829 wow, you have no concept of context. In Romans 8, it seems clear to me that the one who was predestined and then called, and then glorified is Jesus, not a mortal human. No mortal man or woman has been glorified (i.e. in heaven with a new body, etc) yet, so it seems that what Paul is talking about in Romans 8 is the destiny, calling and ultimate glorfication of Jesus when He ascended into heaven. Jesus, before He was a man was "Logos" so He came, and was conformed to the image-cont

[MrRomans829]

@apologeticsman AS FAR AS CONCEPTOF THE CONTEXT YOUR PROJECTION IS VALID. GOD GIVES BOTH THE SEEING EYE AND THE HEARING EAR, AND THE REASON THAT YOU CANT SEE OR HEAR IS BECAUSE YOU ARE WRAPPED UP IN YOUR SO-CALL FREE WILL. THATS YOUR GOD(YOURSELF) THATS WHAT THE WORLD BELIEVES. YOU THINK THAT YOU HAD SOMETHING TO DO WITH YOUR SALVATION, IT IS NOT OF YOURSELF LET NO MAN BOAST. ITS BY GRACE THROUGH FAITH. YOU NEVER MENTION THE GRACE OF GOD ANYWHERE IN YOUR STATEMENT OF FAITH. WHY?

[MrRomans829]

@MrRomans829 CORRECTION READ 2 PETER;2;10-22. THESE ARE THE SAME PEOPLE IN ROM;9;22

[apologeticsman]

@MrRomans829 to the image of a son. That is most likely what Romans 8 is referring to, not determinism, which is a heresy of the lowest rank. Determinism makes God to be the author of sin, and a petty, vindictive loveless beats. I will not worship a God like that, and neither should you. BTW, stop using all capital letters, it makes you seem kind of arrogant. The vessels of wrath are not yet fitted for destruction, not until they die after having rejected Christ. They are "Being fitted"

[MrRomans829]

@apologeticsman AS TO THE VESSELS OF WRATH READ 2 PETER; 10-22. AND JUDE; 4. NOW WHY ARE YOU INSECURE ABOUT ME USING CAPS. YOU SHOULD EXAMINING YOURSELF TO SEE IF YOU ARE IN THE FAITH. STRANGE THAT YOU LET THESE THINGS(CAPS) BOTHER YOU. YOU MAKE THE ASSUMPTION WITH YOUR VAIN IMAGINATION THAT IM KIND OF ARROGANT. NOW YOU KNOW WHATS ARROGANT, WHE A MAN SAYS THAT HE MADE A CHOICE TO COME TO GOD, WHEN THE WORD SAYS WE ARE BOUND TO THANK GOD ALWAYS FOR YOU,BRETHEN BELOVED OF THE LORD,BECAUSE GOD

[MrRomans829]

@apologeticsman HATH FROM THE BEGINNING CHOSEN YOU TO SALVATION THROUGH THE SANTIFICATION OF THE SPIRIT AND BELIEF OF THE TRUTH. 2TH;2;13 READ EPH;2;8-10. JOHN;1;13. JOHN;5;21. JAM; 1;17-18. NOW THATS ARROGANT WHEN A MAN GOES AGAINST THE WORD, TRYING TO TAKE CREDIT FOR HIS SALVATION BY SAYING IT WAS HIS CHOICE. HOW CAN A MAN MAKE A CHOICE TO COME TO GOD WHEN HES SPIRITUALY DEAD. ITS A SPIRITUAL BERTH FROM ABOVE. THE WORD SAYS ANYBODY WHO COMES ANOTHER WAY( BY MANS CHOICE) IS A ROBBER AND THIEF..

[apologeticsman]

@MrRomans829 STOP WRITING IN ALL CAPS< WE ARE NOT BLIND. Those who God knows will repent and trust in His son are chosen, God does not arbitrarily choose based on a curve grade or some perverse pleasure he gets from seeing people suffer in hell. You are just mixed up, and another in a long line of victims of man's traditions, and not a good, solid student of the Bible.

[MrRomans829]

@apologeticsman WHAT IS REALLY BOTHERING YOU MY CAPS OR IS IT THE WORD OF GOD? YOU SAID WE ARE NOT BLIND, HOW MANY ARE YOU? I THOUGHT THAT I WAS JUST WRITING TO YOU. GOD DOES NOT CHOSE BASED ON WHAT MAN IS GOING TO DO IN THE FUTURE. READ ROM;8;29-30. AS FAR AS WHAT YOU SAID ABOUT ME BEING MIXED UP AND ON A LONG LINE OF VICTIMS OF MANS TRADITIONS AND NOT A GOOD, SOLID STUDENT OF THE BIBILE, YOUR PROJECTION IS VALID.FOR WHOM HE DID FOREKNOW HE ALSO DID PREDESTINATE TO BE COMFORMED DO THE IMAGE

[MrRomans829]

@apologeticsman OF HIS SON, THAT HE MIGHT BE THE FIRSTBORN AMONG MANY BRETHEN. THOSE ARE THE CHOSEN ONES. IT IS THE GOODNESS OF GOD THAT LEADS A MAN TO REPENTANCE, NOT MANS CHOICE TO REPENT. MAN DOES NOT SAVE HIMSELF BY MAKING A CHOICE. GOD IS THE ONE DOES THE SAVING WITH HIS GRACE AND MERCY. FOR I KNOW THAT WHATSOEVER GOD DOETH, IT SHALL BE FOREVER;NOTHING CAN BE PUT TO IT,NOR ANYTHING TAKEN FROM IT;AND GOD DOETH IT,THAT MEN SHOULD FEAR BEFORE HIM.THAT WHICH HAS BEEN IS NOW;AND THAT WHICH IS TO

[MrRomans829]

@apologeticsman BE HAS ALREADY BEEN;AND GOD REQUIRETH THAT WHICH IS PAST. PREDESTINATION IS ABOUT BEING RESPONSIBLE AND ACCOUNTABLE TO THE WILL OF GOD. THE WILL OF GOD IS THAT WE PICK UP OUR CROSS(TRUTH) AND DIE TO THE FLESH(THE LIE) DAILY AND FOLLOW CHRIST IF YOU CANT TO THAT YOU CANT BE MY DISCIPLE(LEARNER) ITS NOT A CHOICE ITS A COMMAND.

[apologeticsman]

@MrRomans829 all = "each an every, all, every one" Men = Mankind, human kind, the race of men

[apologeticsman]

@patriotsfan137 And Adam knew his wife again; and she bare a son, and called his name Seth: For God, said she, hath appointed me another seed instead of Abel, whom Cain slew. And to Seth, to him also there was born a son; and he called his name Enos: then began men to call upon the name of the LORD.--Genesis 4:25-26 Men called on the Lord, think about that.

[patriotsfan1379]

@apologeticsman is that the best you can do? just because 1 verse seems to imply something it connot be taken out of context with regards to other parts of the bible if adam n eve after just 1 sin hid from GOD what about anyone after that who had been sining all their lives n were born in iniquity? there is none righteous no not one no one who seeks GOD no not one

[apologeticsman]

@patriotsfan1379 There were apparently some who did seek after God. Maybe it is the Calvinist's first instinct to assume that when it says "There are none who SEEK God" that it automatically means nobody is capable of ever seeking God. If you are sold out to the "total depravity" idea, then you will likely try to squeeze everything in the Bible into that mold, instead of looking at the context. I think the harmonization of these two problems is in the fact that God seeks ALL MEN by His Spirit

[patriotsfan1379]

@apologeticsman romans3;10 ; 18 specially 11 there is none who seek GOD no not one that is in the double negative if aftyer just one sin adam n eve hid hoe much more anyone who has been sinning since birth I don't know what bible you read but all those passages that read someone seeked for GOD are only to believers or otherwise someone whom GOD had a plan for bible says mans heart seek evil all the time

[patriotsfan137]

to the natural man the things of the spirit are foolishness and he cannot understand them for they are spiritualy dicern ANYONE WHO THINKS THEY HAVE FREEWILL is a humanist and GOD has not taught them thats why they cannot understand they won't believe cause they can't believe

[rjm777reaperz]

"free will'" is a viper's (satan) doctrine. coz it turns the man into a god.

[MrRomans829]

@rjm777reaperz VERY WELL SAID

[ElasticGiraffe]

"It has already been proved beyond all controversy that free will is nonsense. . .free will is ridiculous."

Haha. Wow. Let's just not acknowledge that the vast majority of Christians in the world disagree with this or that the early Church contended for free will against the Stoics and Gnostics who opposed the idea. But nooo, there is no theological controversy at all. And one would be better off "not" quoting Martin Luther in favor of any doctrine. He was a passionately ignorant douche bag.

[donsteigerwald]

Spurgeon was correct in his assertion that it is by Grace that we are saved, however his explanation is lacking and a little misleading, perhaps it is simply because of the communication gap between his era and ours, but let me help explain it as best I can in my understanding of today’s language. Free will is a gift everyman has been given. Even Adam had free will, but his will became enslaved to the love of his woman, who was deceived and so he ate.

[donsteigerwald]

Our will, as sons of Adam, are slave to the desires of our heart and since our heart is desperately wicked how then would we will to come to God? The desire to come is placed there by God, He gives us the desires of our heart. But, let me be as clear as I can be: EVERYONE has been given the desire to seek God. Jesus said the reason people don’t come to Him is because ‘their deeds are evil’. All people are therefore without excuse. God is just and the justifier of those who come to Him.

[chefshitpiece]

@donsteigerwald SO what is the difference between someone who hears the call of Jesus, and one who does not?

[donsteigerwald]

@chefshitpiece Jesus made it clear that all people hear, but not all people heed. He said "And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil." John 3: 19

And it is written in Romans 1: 20 & 21 "For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse,..."

To answer your..

[donsteigerwald]

@chefshitpiece ....question: "The difference" does not exist, only the response to the call is different. The call remains the same and that call is between each individiual person and the God who created them.

Therefore, we are all without excuse. Each of us are accountable for how we respond to God's call.

And all will be judged.

Jesus was condemned so we could be pardoned. The call is to obey and recieve this free gift.

Why would anyone reject it? And yet, most do.

[chefshitpiece]

@donsteigerwald OK, so we all hear it. Now...WHy does one person answer YES, and another person answers NO. Please use your own words, not scripture. Why does one person accept Jesus, and another person doesn't. WHy is that, in your most honest opinion?

[donsteigerwald]

@chefshitpiece I used scriptures in my answer because it was completely relevant to your question, not to mention that the Bible is the only trustworthy authority about it's own claims.

But, since you asked my opinion about why some say yes and some say no, I believe it is because of fear that people say no and also why they say yes!

Those who say no are in fear of men.

Those who say yes are in fear of God.

Those who fear man, judge God based on what other men say.

The others don't judge God.

[chefshitpiece]

@donsteigerwald But you are giving the same reason for both the denier and the affirmer. One would expect that a different motivation would underlie a different answer.

Do you believe that everything ultimately boils down to luck?

[donsteigerwald]

@chefshitpiece I don't think you read my response carefully enough.

The reason is vastly different.

The one who fears God, believes and receives.

The one who fears man, rejects God's blessing.

No, I do not believe that everything boils down to luck. It's really a simple choice.

You either choose to rely upon and cling to Jesus or you choose to dis-believe the promise of God

and you reject His free gift of eternal life.

The answer I gave previously dealt with my opinion on why people do that.

[chefshitpiece]

@donsteigerwald Let me put ti to you this way:

Your life is based on your decisions

Your decisions are based on your perspective

Your perspective is based on your personality

Your personality is based on your brain's wiring

Your brain is wired by your DNA

And your DNA...is 100% luck of the draw.

Free will is an illusion

But didnt Jesus try and say no man is better than any other? If everything boils down to luck...then who is better than his brother?

[donsteigerwald]

@chefshitpiece Le me put it this way:

Your life decisions make you who you become.

Your decisions are based on a myriad of reasons that you, yourself, decide regardless of outside influences.

The Bible declares that people are more than just bodies, they are spiritual beings that are eternal and who are living in a temporal body who will leave those bodies and either put on heavenly ones, or enter eternal torment.

Free will is an inherent part of being created by a loving God.

[chefshitpiece]

@donsteigerwald What reasons? HOW is it that outside influences are irrelevant? Answer that, or dont post back, bcuz I will not respond to anything else. AS for God, I actually wrote a book ARGUING He exists, although I cannot prove it.

[donsteigerwald]

@chefshitpiece I never said outside influences are irrelevant, I say REGARDLESS of outside influences.

Everything is a choice. When I am tempted toward sin by whatever, I have a choice. I can choose to follow the temptation or I can choose to bring my temptation to the Lord Jesus and ask for help.

What blows my mind is how often I sin, in spite of the fact that I actually know Him. It shows just how depraved my heart and mind are! But it also shows me how much He really cares and loves......

[donsteigerwald]

@chefshitpiece ...because He knows just how depraved I am and still persues me. He is gracious and loving.

So, to make sure I answered your question to your satisfaction: Outside influences are just that. They are outside. They do not determine the course of my life any more than the winds determine the course of a sail boat. The direction of the boat is determined by how that sail is set in relation to the wind.

People come to God based on a choice to humble themselves, or not.

He answers.

[patriotsfan137]

@donsteigerwald no one can come to ME unles the FATHER "DRAWS him" JESUS said that now here you come n say something else who should i believe I thin I will take my chancess n believe JESUS in the bible you think about that

[donsteigerwald]

@chefshitpiece So, since you do have free will, choose today whom you will serve.

The gods of this world or the Creator of all things, both visible and invisible.

It's your choice.

What would preclude you from choosing to trust God? Is it because you don't know Him? You don't have to know

Him to trust Him, but, if you want to know Him, you must first trust Him.

That is, be honest, you know there is a God, so why don't you know Him?

You can! I didn't, but now I do!

He is trustworthy.

[chefshitpiece]

@donsteigerwald IM not going to argue with someone who beleives we were born with original sin (which Jesus never said btw...it was "Saint" Augustine's excuse to get God off the hook for creating evil). What amazes me is that you believe our Creator would create someone in accordance with HIs specifications, and then blame the person when he acts in accordance with his own nature, the same nature given to him by the Creator Himself. If my toaster broke, I'd fix it, not burn it forever.

[donsteigerwald]

@chefshitpiece Here's the deal. You cannot understand the things that are spiritual, because you are still dead. It is impossible for you to have an intelligent discussion about God and the things beyond this world because you are still blind.

These are not my opinions only, these are statements that Jesus the Christ made regarding mankind when He walked this earth.

I know God. Before I believed in Jesus, I did not know God.

This is simple fact. It's real and can be for you as well..........

[donsteigerwald]

@chefshitpiece ......This is why He came, this is what He does for those who ask.

Turn to and trust in Him. Talk to Him and believe what He said, that He gave His life to take the penalty for your sin and then you will be born from above. You will be born of God

and you will know God. Until then, you will remain as you are and you will die in your trespasses and sins,

just as Jesus said to the religious people of His day.

Take care. I hope you choose to turn to Him. He loves you so.

[chefshitpiece]

@donsteigerwald Yeah, I know He does, that's essentially why i wrote a book in His honor. But that doesnt mean i beLIEve what a bunch of wandering desert thieves have had to say about Him!

[donsteigerwald]

@chefshitpiece God, if you're my father, why don't I know you? That's the question I asked God almost 30 years ago. I realized that I honestly didn't know God. I realized that if there is a God, then I must not be a child of God, or I would know Him. Jesus said to as many who believed on His name He gave them the power to become the children of God.

If you need to become a child of God, that means you are not one to begin with.

So, are you a child of God? You can become one!

[patriotsfan137]

@chefshitpiece romans chapter 9  should the thing formed say to the potter what have you done does not the potter have a right to make out of the same lump one vessel for honor and another for dishonor why does HE than finds fault but who are you ho man to argue with your maker you fix your toaster cause you need it GOD does not need us we are useles servants BUT HE has decided to have mercy on some you think about that

[chefshitpiece]

@patriotsfan137 Are you arguing with me, extending my point, or what? Your writing is grammatically terrible, your logic flows like mud in winter, and your use of scripture to make your point instead of composing your own argument reeks of stale cliche. Recompose your comment forthwith!

[donsteigerwald]

To be delivered from the power of sin and its resulting death is a work God, wrought in the hearts of those who break on the rock of Christ. Those who refuse to break on that rock are crushed as a result of their own willful rejection of Christ.

[donsteigerwald]

So, to sum it all up: Call on the Lord while He may be found, He will wash away your guilt and shame in the cleansing flow of Christ’s blood and you receive God’s Holy Spirit who will create in you a new heart, upon which are written the law of God, to whom you willfully become a slave of righteousness, for we love Him for He first loved us.

[candiceevans1]

I am blessed because Jesus has jerked a knot in my but everytime I stray fr my path,,,he turns my life upside down but I am grateful that Jesus knows me and corrects me,,,,this is how I know that Iam saved,,,, the change in myt heart in my life, I didnt stray out of rebellion but from ignorance i asked jesus to help me know/understand the truth, and his will,,,thank you Jesus

[candiceevans1]

but arent there those that GOD choses like Paul andthen those people have no choice,,,if GOD wants you then you will be beaten into submission until you do the will of the father,,,and those who are called must teach the ones who will repent and chose Jesus and salvation of their own will like most of us

[shadapple]

The Old and New Testaments are clear that we have the choice of Salvation. And I'm not going to post 15,000 scriptures to prove it. If we didn't, you can take the word "repent" right out of the Bible. And you can forget about verses like this....2 Thessalonians 2:10And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

[shadapple]

In fact, if we don't have the choice of free will...why read or preach the Gospel at all? Would it matter? Why would he bother to give us allllllll that insrtuction? If we don't have free will? What's the sense. Total nonsense. No wonder I don't follow the Whore of Babylon or her daughters. I read the Bible, he opens me to it, I've even had an Angelic visit. Pure nonsense to say we don't have free will.

[kub73158]

"Free will is ridiculous". ?

Get real.

If we didn't have free will, there would never have been any disobedience/sin.

[JaffarDS]

@kub73158 Indeed.

"People today are trying to hang on to the dignity of man, but they do not know how to, because they have lost the truth that man is made in the image of God. Adam was an unprogrammed man, a significant man in a significant history, and he could change history." - Francis Schaeffer

[Dvader64909]

1 Corinthians 1:10-13

: and I of Cephas; and I of Christ. 13Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?

[hermanogflores]

I guess (according to this teaching) that God doesn't will for me to be a Calvinist. I got a headache trying to understand this. I also don't sense the Spirit of God in this teaching.

[s00068525]

Does God not call all men everywhere to repent? Can everyone not take God at His word and trust Christ as Saviour? (By the way I dont want to be akward, just looking for a honest Christian conversation with brotherly love)

[CmRoddy]

If this can't convince our Arminian brothers that "free" will is a myth, I don't know what will.

[mortsey]

Amazing how timeless Spurgion is.

[CRISwraith]

He is faithfull to cut away n put Himself in the place to do His good will n pleasure,.. not me I can't,.. please by my own efforts,.. the one n only thing you can give God is the right to yourself ,..n He takes that n makes it acceptable by the blood of Jesus .. but your efforts,.. I'm here spellin it out i'm about a war about to errupt all over the place for Him.. if u are gonna slander His saints get ready.. BRING IT!!!

[CRISwraith]

These men are masterpieces of God's ability to take our own will n return it for his unwaverin one. our minds n spirits are dark n deadened, He must do the work our will fails He rescues it with His own,.. are u that stupid did you not read n practice,.. only Jesus had the ability to surrender Himself completely to the will of His Father,..our's is to choose it. His is to do it. for we cannot,.. wich one of you fools claims to have by his own will surrendered himself to God.

[CRISwraith]

i've spent two years readin studyin spergeon n chambers (his student)

You guyz are numb n blind self seeking n self reliant on your own perspectives n not God's

[sateeram]

All who support this view, please answer me the following questions.

If I am dead and I cannot respond to the Gospel on my own, how can I be held responsible for rejecting Christ on the day of judgment?

If I cannot be saved without the work of the Holy Spirit along with Gospel, what is the destiny of the people who never had come across both the Holy Spirit and Gospel? On what basis, they will be judged?

(continues below)

[IsJawn]

Sateeram,

Romans 9:19-21 One of you will say to me: "then why does God blame us? For who resists his will?" But who are you O man to talk back to God? " Shall what is formed say to him who formed it, 'Why did you make me like this?' " Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for noble purposes and some for common use?

[CmRoddy]

See, the problem with this, which is something you should be very concerned about, is that Paul in Romans 9 raised this very same objection and answered it. If you are raising the same objections that the Apostle raised to himself and then answered, as a Christian at least, then you are on the wrong side of the fence on this issue.

[truegrit5755]

Well it's good to see those questions were handled with the scriptures. Good job guys

[psk6565]

1 Corinthians 2:14But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised.

It is not that man desires to respond and cannot. It is that he does not accept it and will not accept it b/c they do not have the capacity. It is up to God who will be able to respond by enabling them to do so by the Holy Spirit.

[LiViDaChI]

Saterram, good question.

I think the idea is that God does not OWE man salvation--it is a gift.,

After you sinned, you died. People are not punished because they dont know Christ, they are punished because they sin. There is no moral obligation for God to save you. He is perfectly moral to justly punish you. In fact, the fallen man would rather spend an eternity in hell than accept the gospel and love of God.

God has changed the wills of a select few, enabling them to accept salvation.

[m1dewitt]

The bible never says accept salvation because then you will be doing works for salvation in accepting.

[LiViDaChI]

I never said that. I said that God changes the wills of a select few people (the elect) and, as an effect, they irresistibly accept him as savior.. I am not saying we "choose Christ" or that we have freewill that can overcome our total depravity.

[m1dewitt]

The word accept itself implies allowing.This is the reason you will never see accept in reference to salvation, only receive. Accept is what the Armenians use but there is no scriptural backing for the word. I know its just a word but if God uses one word we should use it as well. Matthew 19:11

[LiViDaChI]

I see your point but my intention was not to indicate freewill in salvation :). I think you are right, I'll try to stick to "recieve" rather than "accept." Thanks.

[m1dewitt]

Just trying to make "cookie cutter" christians. 1 corinthians 1:10 :)

[zealess]

They either burn forever in hell or, if you're a universalist, don't.

[cognitivemagic]

So does this mean that if we are "dead to sin" (Romans 6:11), that we are no longer "free" to respond to it?

"Death" does not mean "annihilation", but rather "separation".

"..he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him" (Heb. 11:6)

"Do not be deceived; God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, that he will reap." (Gal. 6:7,8)

And Paul then outlines two "free" choices: we can either sow to the flesh or sow to the Spirit.

[mkl62]

I am an ELCA Lutheran from South Carolina. I play the piano and organ. This past Sunday (April 20), I played Lord, Teach Us How to Pray Aright for Sunday School assembly. The older adult's Sunday School lesson was taken from Daniel 6: 4-7, 10, 16, 19, 21, 25-26. (Daniel's Life-And-Death Test). The hymn was written by James Montgomery. The tune is known as EVAN and was composed by William H. Havergal. Just thought I'd share.

[GPLeague]

"Thou art nothing but a carcass, embalmed in legality!" Wouldn't that make a great gift if it were sewn on a pillow or framed or something?

[HannaBarbaric]

hahaha...

[EZEKIEL3622]

pretty clear, all you have to ask... is man dead?

[cyberwaffles]

Man by nature is spiritually dead, from conception. Romans 5:12 says,"... as by one sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:" Adam and Eve's sin brought a partition between all mankind and God, and this shows what man's freewill desire; to rebel against God. That's why God is the only who can remove this barrier and God's uses Jesus as a sacrifice for the basis of our salvation.

[russeell1]

this barrier you speak of is truly the block... but is not a reality... spirit cannot really separate from spirit... no more than air can separate from air. BUT THE ILLUSION OF GUILT - ADAMS DREAM --- sure seems real.... and this ILLUSION MUST BE UNDONE...

[Adelina1389]

what do you mean by your question? Do you agree with Spurgeon or not?

[sampamog]

Thank you so much for posting this!