@Sk8er408 whatever, chew on this hard to swallow fact.
the curse" was preserved through the Egyptians (Abraham 1:21) Joseph Smith claimed to be from the tribe of Ephrain, son Joseph who married and had children with his Egyptian wife (Gen 41:50-52). So according to the Book of Abraham, Jospeph Smith would be ineligible to hold the Mormon priesthood!
So depression means change churches is what I just got out of what I heard altho I could only make it so far thru idiots speaking of how they changed their faiths from whatever to whatever and making excuses why and how that made them better
@KINGxB Zero archeological evidence + zero genetic evidence + numerous different accounts of the first vision + numerous false prophecies = equals a religion built on falsehoods. Joseph was a treasure digger who was renowned for his story telling. Deuteronomy is clear that a true prophet of God must be right 100% of the time. Smith fails this test. For example, no 6 ft tall Quakers on the moon. No temple in Independence, MO. No 56 yrs until Christ returned
@endofus ok, thats not what I gathered from what I could stand to watch as it was just boring but ok if you say that's what's in the video I suppose it's possible...
I don't believe that a prophet would have to be 100% tho as man is never 100% and so many things are misunderstood so even if they are right people may interpret them as wrong as somany things have been in the past...
@KINGxB why should we follow you're Mormon prophet then. you make him sound no different then a Baptist preacher. Why would I follow just a Mormon mans opinions?
Thanks, now I won't join the LDS. I am going to cancel my missionary meeting for today.
@endofus I'm not mormon so what are you talking about?
The prophet is supposed to have the ability to speak to god for revelation and guidence of the church and there is a way that he is proven and if he trys to detour the chuch then he would be removed by someway...
@KINGxB You have been forced into a position that diminishes Mormonism and revelation. You're saying Revelation is a ambigious, flawed process, which prophets mistake their own ideas for God's which neuters Mormonisms most basic element - continuing revelation
@KINGxB If a Mormon prophet, presiding as God's mouthpiece over the Church only offers opinions; what possible value is there in having a prophet? Everybody has opinions.
@endofus The idea is to keep the link between man and god so that the chuch remains and stays stron instead of falling like it had done so previously...
@endofus What do you mean the church never fell? Have you looked at the Christian church and it's retarded ass greedy split up sections??? only a fucking idiot would say Christianity didn't tank itself!
@endofus They don't recognize them and I never tried to prove them right but equal at a minimum to others and Warren Jeffs is just a fucked up psychopath from what I gather that was smart enough to do so much and dumb enough to still get caught...
@endofus I never set a standard or said they were right above others I am not arguing who's right or wrong just that they are equal if u look at it logically... They have no more crediblity than one another so it's rediculous to discriminate towards one when it has just as big a chance of being correct... You just seem to wanna twist words and be right tho when you don't even seem to know what your arguing so I'm done unless you can stop wasting my time...
@endofus The LDS church is only as easy to disprove as Christianity... Also many other religions are much more believable or just as believable as Christianity... Your faith does't make your religion right to everyone else just to yourself so look at the big picture and just except people and their religions because as crazy as you think theres is, yours may look just as crazy or even crazier to others...
@endofus Christianity can't agree on anything and is infact just as easy to disprove as the LDS Church... Try actualy proving either with facts or disprove with FACTS! Just because the Bible "KJV Old Testement really" has been proven to keep approx. 95% accurate translation "not meaning" does not mean Christianity has been proven... Judaism is closer than Christianity to being a proven Religion and it's older... Just get over it and accept them or atleast that yours is no more factualy proven...
@chriscason24 Yes, this is a pretty heavy topic so we sort of have a warped sense of humor about it because otherwise, it'll be too much to bear. I take a break periodically, too, because I'm a busy guy outside of this.
I try to love Mormons as Christ would have us do, but I, too, sometimes get a little combative. I think it's normal.
Praise God! There is nothing like that moment when your eyes are opened for the first time. "My chains are gone, I've been set free; my LORD, my Savior has ransomed me.."
@chriscason24 I have and the 'other sheep' aren't the fictional Nephites because they never existed. Those mentioned are the Gentiles, not figments of Joseph Smith's imagination.
"...as far as it is translated correctly..." (AOF #8) Let's not forget that the BOM makes it clear that the Bible is missing many 'plain and precious things' at least eight times and that Joseph Smith had to 'retranslate' the Bible (D&C 73:3-4) to correct the thousands of errors in it (Teachings of the Prophets of the Church, Joseph Smith, p 208) and that he claims to have done so (HOTC 1:324, 368-9) even though the Mormon god hasn't bothered to allow you to use the Joseph Smith Translation.
@18ishbree The facts are that the Mormon god attained his godhood, is separate and distinct from the Mormon jesus, and that he has a body of flesh and bone, things not in either the BOM or the Bible.
Since Mormonism assumes the inherent goodness of mankind, the sacrifice of Jesus Christ Almighty is diminished and demeaned. That's why works are more important than grace to the LDS; this is autosoterism, man being his own savior.
@18ishbree Its cool if your Mormon and that works for you but to me you just lied, because you said the one and only God. Mormons have more than one God, there is the one God who created mankind, the one you pray too, but Jesus is a God to himself, and so are any saints who live perfect lives so Joseph Smith is or will be a God I assume because the highest level of heaven is you get to become a God yourself, rule over your own planet. God had the same experience, on some other world right?
"I decided to read the NT" I'm wondering why he hadn't read the NT before that time. We study the Bible in church, we are encouraged to study the scriptures on our own. My kids knew every Bible story, even the ones adults didn't know, by age 4-6. My 12 year old is almost through reading the NT on his own. No wonder these people left the church. So sad. I love how they mention bishoprics as if that is supposed to mean something.
@18ishbree If the jesus in the BOM was the same one we find in the Bible, I'd agree. Yes, Mormons are usually decent, hardworking, honest people, but doing the right thing for the wrong reason still doesn't make Mormonism correct.
@18ishbree Christians believe Jesus and God and the trinity are one thing, Mormons think Jesus is his own person, and his own God, God also seems to come from another planet, were he lived maybe like Jesus and became a God himself, & than there is the holy spirt, which is another person, and I think a God undo himself, God has a wife, so Mormons really are not christians, you believe in Christ but its a new book with a new version of God, its a totally different religion that fine but be honest.
@dharma099 Mormon forefathers bore their testimonies for a different set of doctrines that are now said to be false by the current LDS church.Some of these doctrines were: Adam as God, polygamy is essential to salvation, blacks will be denied the priesthood until the second comming of Christ, blood atonment and death oaths. If Mormon forefathers testimonies can't be trusted what makes you think yours can be trusted, what makes you better then Joseph Smith and Brigham Young?
"the curse" was preserved through the Egyptians (Abraham 1:21) Joseph Smith claimed to be from the tribe of Ephrain, son Joseph who married and had children with his Egyptian wife (Gen 41:50-52). So according to the Book of Abraham, Jospeph Smith would be ineligible to hold the Mormon priesthood!
ANSWER THE QUESTION APOSTATE, WHERE SHOULD THE MONEY GO OTHER THAN HELPING THE POOR, CHURCHES, SCHOOLS, HUMANITARIAN AID TEMPLES, EMPLOYMENT CENTERS,WELLS IN AFRICA,COLLEGES,,DESERET INDUSTRIES, WHEEL CHAIRS, AND SCHOOLS ETC. ANSWER THIS OR I NEED NOT RESPOND ANY LONGER.
If the Kolobian Church (Mormonism) (LDS, Inc) would publish it's finances, THEN I might be able to answer that. What I DO KNOW is that LDS takes in 3-4 billion p/yr and only pays out 35 million p/yr in charitable donation! 1% or less when they demand 10%+ from members--along with the threat that IF YOU DON'T pay you can't live with God in CK's highest degree!
Why shouldn't I say "WE"? There are many people out here that feel the same way.
I see you lack logic, so I'll do the math FOR YOU!
Assuming an avg membership of 10 mil for those 22 years (generous, I know),vs the 750mil donated in "cash and goods", that works out to $75 dollars PER MEMB, PER those 22 years. That's $3.41 PER YR, PER MEMB. or, less than THIRTY CENTS (.30 cents) PER MEMB. PER MONTH!
YOU tell us how much LDS Inc. accumulated as income from all sources over that 22 year period and judge for yourself as to my "less than 1%" to charity quote!
As I have said and it goes unrefuted, just like the Southern Baptist Convention The Mormon Church verify's no expendature or business transactions to anyone. So to have people on here make statements on finances is irrisponsible and picking at straws. Is this an unreasonable expense? Go to "THE MOST INSPIRING VIDEO I HAVE EVER SEEN" here on you tube. Wasted money I suppose, those stupid Mormons!
I live in Idaho and I am a born again Christian. I am basically a fish out of water with all the Mormons around me. I just listen to how they "brag" about their works and try really hard to be justified, and I pray for them and tell them with Christ comes grace and a desire to serve out of love.
If it bothers you so much that a religious organization has so much or spends only such and such money why don't you call them at The Church Office Building in Salt Lake City, Utah it will giv eyou somebody to complain directly to.
The LDS church never discuses or releases any monetary numbers, The only one i have ever seen is the $1,000,000,000 in welfare given over the years. The cost to run schools, universities, hopitals, build new churches of about one per day, and temples have never been addressed to any media that i know of..
All that building is just seen as another advertising expense.
Maybe you can share the citation re the 1 billion figure on the Morg's charitable contributions...? But that sounds about right. It was 3/4 of a billion between 1984 and 2006 so another 1/4 billion in the last 6 years sounds reasonable. Nowhere near the 3 Billion they are spending on the Jesus Mall in downtown SLC., however.
(Gotta make sure those commercial interests are served, eh?)
It's not true that the LDS have "never" released a record of their finances. Before about 1958 they DID publish their finances. Now it seems they don't want YOU MEMBERS to know that they pay their upper-echelon leaders a minimum of 50K a year for their services--called a "stipend". The reason for keeping it under wraps, is the LDS' 130 year record of badmouthing those OTHER churches, for paying THEIR ministers a salary for THEIR services. It would be very embarassing for them.
@42apostate Well, since you as a non member knows what the finances are of the Mormon Church. Without disclosures from them please post here once a year to keep us updated. In fact call them at there church office building and tell them too in case they don't know too.
I AM a "non-Member NOW--but I WAS a member (BIC) for 50+ years!! Do you REALLY think I could spend that amount of time there as a member of a bishopric, a Stake High Counciman, BYU, and a stint as Gospel Doctrine teach and NOT gather some facts and figures along the way??
@42apostate THE FACTS ARE YOu DECIDED TO SKIRT THE ISSUE, YOU DON'T KNOW THE FINANCES IN THE MORMON CHURCH, PERIOD. is there alot of money? it appears to be so. but where is it going? No place you want it too for sure. where do you think it should go to other than helping the poor, schools, colleges, universities, humanitarian aid, churchs, temples, books etc. As for the billion dollars, maybe they understated it, this would not be a lie since the billion would be correct its just more.
I came RIGHT OUT AND STATED the issue, "The LDS Church does not publish it's finances--like most OTHER churches DO"!! HOW is that "skirting"?? It's plainly stated! Everyone KNOWS this fact. It's so OBVIOUS it doesn't even NEED to be said!!
So, the OBVIOUS question that WE'RE asking is one that YOU members should be asking...Where is the billions going and what is it being spent on? The 3 bil. mall is ONE piece of the puzzle...
The REAL question for us is NOT "HOW MUCH" (we don't give a crap about "how much"!!). The REAL question is "WHY?"! Why won't they disclose their finances? WHAT are they doing that THEY don't want YOU to know about??
NOBODY hides their finances without a good reason! What IS THAT REASON for LDS, Inc., and how would that reason compare to what JESUS CHRIST would do with the money--IF He were REALLY in charge of LDS, Inc!!
@42apostate Don't use we in your statement, Why don't you ask the say the Catholic Church? they are bigger and certainly must have more money you can complain about. Or the Baptist on the TV those ministries do pretty good, hey why not give old Pat Robertson a call I bet his car is pretty nice. You could demand the same from him. Oh I am sorry you not able to answer any questions only complain about what you think you know or think you should know. Must be tough on you not to know.
I'm not a Mormon anymore and you don't need to be either. If you want to leave/resign you LDS membership just email Greg Dodge at dodgegw at ldschurchorg. Greg is the head guy at the LDS Church Office Building (Records Office) in Salt Lake City and will help you. Simply state that you want to leave based on your belief that the LDS Church is not what it claims to be. Help Greg out by Giving your full name and birth date as well as baptism date (if known).
Don't forget to replace the "at" with the @ symbol and close the gaps in the address and the dot between "church and org". (It's a YT rule that won't allow email addresses or websites in their full glory.)
This really is so easy even a caveman can do it! The best part is that you and your family will not be harrassed by LDS Inc. again. (I haven't been, but there's no iron clad guarantee.)
PM me at my channel for more information or questions on the process.
Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth... The word gospel means good news. The good news is that Jesus Christ has made a perfect atonement for mankind that will redeem all mankind from the grave and reward each individual according to his/her works. Ask God and trust not in the arms of flesh... lean not on your own understanding for it is the knowledge of the truth that will set the world free.
The problem here, friend, is that you are ASSUMING A TON, that Mormonism IS THAT "gospel" of which Romans 1:16 speaks? That's a LOT to assume--without SOME proofs!
Are YOU NOT "trusting in the arm of flesh" when you choose to "follow the prophet" and to "follow the LDS church"? Did you not also "lean on YOUR OWN UNDERSTANDING" in becoming LDS (or committing to LDS)?
What are the criteria YOU use/used to determine that the Catholic church was not "God's church"?
The lies you refer to are the rantings of the Mob, Never any proof, mostly heresay, always to hurt never to lift up. hate and anger is your watch word it appears. I would be naive to say that any organization can' survive without some sort of money to move along its causes of serving the greater community. Example, Hurricaine Katrina, did you know that relief trucksfrom the LDS Church were on the way to help those ineed before Katrina hit? Now if there was no money that could not have happened.
If you were to list the reasons that you wouldn't join, say, the Catholic Church (HRCC), I dare say that you would list some things that CATHOLICS would refer to as "never any proof", "heresay", "only looking to hurt never to lift up", and would likewise accuse YOU of being full of "hate and anger". Yet, all you're doing (SAME AS WE DO in evaluating LDS, Inc) is to list the reasons, WITH THE EVIDENCES, that causes (in your opinion)the HRCC to come up short. No hate involved!!
Justy because you DECLARE our evidence to be the "rantings of the Mob" does not diminish the facts we present. All you're doing is denying that our evidences have any meaning. It is simple DENIALS. That's your ONLY defense to the facts presented?--your ONLY recourse?--to DENY, without counter evidence??
Poor, poor tactic.
But that's okay! We know that most "investigators" will see through the LDS denials and evasions and smoke screens (thanks to the Inet), so you're helping..
I've presented to you the EVIDENCE that Mormons HAVE TO PAY MONEY in order to live with God. The proof isn't in some silly "anti-Mormon" rag--you can find it (if you open your eyes just a tad) right in your OWN literature. Will you be able to see it as PAYING FOR SALVATION? No, you don't DARE see it for what it is because YOU KNOW that if you did, the whole facade of Mormonism would crumble--and you couldn't hande THAT prospect...
If it's "proof" you want without the "heresay" (and the PAYING for salvation evidence is not enough for you), let's discuss LDS racism, misogyny and homophobia (against the backdrop of Christ's # ONE Comm. of love). There again you will be convicted, not because of some mindless anti-LDS propaganda, but by YOUR OWN PUBLICATIONS, STATEMENTS OF LEADERS AND DOCTRINE!!
WE HAVE the evidences that LDS, Inc is NOT what it claims to be. That you'll DENY the evidence is not our problem!
@42apostate Sorry, your thoughts are convoluted, argumentative and you never do give any facts only heresay and evidence of the Mob. So I end this conversation to nowhere.
I admit that my comments MAY be "convoluted" and I'm sorry that you were unable to follow them (UNwilling probably fits better).
What kind of evidences WOULD you accept? ANY?
Why can't you just admit that there exists NO EVIDENCE OR PROOFS that would change your LDS perspective,---rather than blame me for not performing better than I have??
Man, once surrendering his reason, has no remaining guard against absurdities the most monstrous, and like a ship without a rudder, is the sport of every wind. With such persons, gullibility, which they call faith, takes the helm of reason, and the mind becomes a wreck.
- Thomas Jefferson
It's this reliance on faith alone that has caused there to be 20,000 differing Christian religions in the world and is PROOF that faith alone leads NOWHERE!
If you are talking about "faith" in Jesus Christ ALONE (not faith in "the Church" or "faith" in some fallible HUMAN BEING) THEN and only then, will you be on the right path. In order to BE on that correct path, you HAVE to be free of ANY preconcieved ideas as to what God wants of you. To "follow" (have faith in) another human can lead to disaster. We (individually) have to come to Him TOTALLY STRIPPED of all prejudices in order for the Spirit to lead. THAT is true "faith".
"I would that ye should come unto Christ, who is the Holy One of Israel, and partake of his salvation, and the power of his redemption. Yea, come unto him, and offer your whole souls as an offering unto him, and continue in fasting and praying, and endure to the end; and as the Lord liveth ye will be saved." Joseph Smith Jr
But...U don't need a "church" in order to do that--tho it DOES help to do these things with others who believe likewise. To follow a person OR a "church" detracts from following Christ, that you eloquently expressed--or that Joseph expressed--tho, I don't think God is impressed with words but is more impressed with what you REALLY think and what you REALLY DO. How you live is what will convict or exonerate in the end.
"I would that ye should come unto Christ, who is the Holy One of Israel, and partake of his salvation, and the power of his redemption. Yea, come unto him, and offer your whole souls as an offering unto him, and continue in fasting and praying, and endure to the end; and as the Lord liveth ye will be saved." Joseph Smith Jr.
Malachi 3:8 Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings. 9Ye are cursed with a curse:... 10Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it. 11And I will rebuke the devourer for your sakes.
@Jack44M Eph 5:23 Every member of the church must seek God and gain their own testimony of the restored gospel... Prov2,3 knowledge and understanding must be sought after as hidden treasure. In Lehi's vision many walk away from the tree of life... Only through divine revelation can we come to know the truth. I know God lives and I also know by the power and gift of the Holy Ghost that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is the only true living Church on the earth... Seek knowledge
Funny you mention Lehi's "Tree of Life". Did you know it was actually one of Smith's father's stories and he copied it into the Book of Mormon? Same story.....just pretended it was Lehi's dream or vision. lol
@Jack44M Lucy wrote about the dream Long AFTER the Book of Mormon was published. You would have a hard time one day after a dream to remember anything since they are notoriously ephemeral. Lucy's account is influenced in its verbiage by the Book of Mormon. Lucy either used the material in the Book of Mormon to bolster her memory, or it influenced her memory. It is a fact Joseph Smith Sr. had a dream but did Joseph get The Tree of Life from it? There is no evidence, no facts as usaual.
As if you really WANT those facts and dates on JS SR's Tree of Life Vision that found it's way (mysteriously) into the BoM. It would take you about 2 minutes to Google for it and you'd HAVE all the facts you need. You won't do that, tho. You'd rather stand back and bitch and moan!
I've been trying for a week now to get some "facts n data" out of YOU--to no avail...
I ALSO "KNOW" that God lives, that Christ IS our Redeemer--and I also know by the power and gift of the Holy Ghost (the barer of TRUTH) that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints is NOT the "only true and living Church on the earth".
I KNOW that such does NOT exist. I KNOW that He doesn't CARE what "church" you belong to. I KNOW that Masonic rituals will NOT "save you"--nor will prayer and taking sacrament--NOR will bearing testiphoney!
Nope! RESIGNED MY MEMBERSHIP in 2001 of my own free will!--but you'd take great diabolical GLEE in IT if I HAD been exed, wouldn't you? That's a testament to the love that exists in Mormonism--AND their lack of belief in their own teachings--especially that pesky Article of Faith # 11. Look it up and feel the pain of guilt as you do.
Well. The ONLY thing I'm "bitter" about is that it took me so long to see the obvious. The bitterness is aimed squarely at ME!
Why would you think me bitter because I point out something that SHOULD make you cringe!--and every other Mormon that pays tithing to Corporate LDS?--the INSANE idea of having to pay a fee or purchase a ticket/pass (however you chose to phrase it--it all comes down to the same thing) to be able to live with God. It's equally absured as RCC "absolution"!
To their credit the RCC got rid of their most egregious BS (absolution and Geo Centrism). But typically the LDS Church just has a REAL HARD TIME letting go of their stupid stuff, like: their racism, their polygamy, their misogny, and their homophobic insanity. This fee thing is just as stupid as the rest but the priority for it's demise is probably, admittedly down the list a bit further.
I don't claim to "represent" this video. But, I DID leave LDS, Inc., JUST LIKE THEY DID--and for much the same reasons.
Had I known at 12 years old that my church (LDS) charged a fee to get to live with God, I would have left THEN. As it was, it took me another few decades to wake up to the truth of Mormonism--AS WILL YOU, some day...
What is it that keeps you "IN" with this FEE fact staring you in the face?? It's THE MOST absured of LDS doctrine, and yet YOU STAY? Amazing!
Deuteronomy 26:12 "When thou hast made an end of tithing all the tithes of thine increase the third year, which is the year of tithing, and hast given it unto the Levite, the stranger, the fatherless, and the widow, that they may eat within thy gates, and be filled."
Nehemiah 13:5 "And he had prepared for him a great chamber, where aforetime they laid the meat offerings, the frankincense, and the vessels, and the tithes of the corn, the new wine, and the oil, which was commanded to be given to the Levites, and the singers, and the porters; and the offerings of the priests".
Malachi 3:8 Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings. 9Ye are cursed with a curse:... 10Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it. 11And I will rebuke the devourer for your sakes.
So far you have shown NOTHING that would change my original statement that the LDS Church charges it's members a FEE (a ticket) to get to heaven. (highest deg. of CK--exaltation!)
What's so hard to understand about this? You seem to be "kicking against the pricks" and "straining at a knat" on this truly outrageous, LDS concocted absurdity.
Sure they do. What they DON'T do is manipulate the words to fit their agenda.
As a mat o fact, I'm somewhat surprised that YOU DO--in light of the 8th Article of Faith that questions the reliability of the Bible! The WHOLE Bible is held suspect by LDS because of that 8th AoF.
LDS seem only to use the Bible when it serves their needs--if it doesn't QUITE work, just jimmy the words a bit so that it DOES work!
AND. Guess who it is that gets to "interpret" it CORRECTLY!! mm..
You don't read/respond to anything said here, do you?--and you don't INTEND TO!! Isn't that about it?
Well, frankly, if I were in YOUR shoes, I wouldn't either. If you did try, you'd end up looking the fool you seem to be.
I LOVE LDS PSUEDO-APOLOGISTS!! ALL BLUSTER AND NO SUBSTANCE!!
Did your LDS masters TELL you to do the "non-answer" trick? Or did you figure out on your own that are no intelligent answers to be had for the LDS side?
You should do what all your coHorts are doing these days. Rather than answering any questions or responding on topic, just start with the name calling. Here's a few that I've picked up from other psuedo-apologists along the way: "Liar" is the most popular. Then comes "bigot". Then it's "anti-Mormon" or anti-Christ (as if the two are related). Then it's the boring list of "basher, hater, evil, Satan's follower", etc.
Then there's the really foul language--the LDS true colors.
The responsibility for our social, emotional, spiritual, physical, and economic well-being rests first on ourselves, second on our family, and third on the LDS Church. Under the inspiration of the Lord and through our own labors, we should supply ourselves and our family with the spiritual and temporal necessities of life.
D&C 42: 30And behold, thou wilt remember the poor, and consecrate of thy properties for their support that which thou hast to impart unto them, with a covenant and a deed which cannot be broken. 31And inasmuch as ye impart of your substance unto the poor, ye will do it unto me; and they shall be laid before the bishop of my church..h. priests, such as he shall appoint or has appointed and gset apart for that purpose.
As Saints we help people in need and the Church does too and it takes money.
Jacob 2:17-19 "Think of your abrethren like unto yourselves, and be familiar with all and free with your bsubstance, that cthey may be rich like unto you. 18But abefore ye seek for briches, seek ye for the ckingdom of God. 19And after ye have obtained a hope in Christ ye shall obtain riches, if ye seek them; and ye will seek them for the intent to ado good—to clothe the naked, and to feed the hungry, and to liberate the captive, and administer relief to the sick and the afflicted".
Tithing is gods way, So now there is money in the system, like any other religion, facts are money help all religions function. One comes along and invests some for rainy days like the economy bad? Maybe you are thinking about all that power money brings and since you have money it must be used for evil. Lets see, Hospitals, Schools, Colleges, Humanitarien aid, Welfare, Crisis mangaement, Counceling centers, and Deseret Industries that help people? Those? Whats wrong with allll, that? NOTHING!
I suppose you're aiming your comments at me. (It would be helpful to "reply" to the comment made, which will identify the person to whom you're speaking.)
You spent a lot of words talking about the good the LDS Church does with their money. No argument from me on that. The question was, where did the concept come from (BIBLICALLY SPEAKING) upon which LDS have made "tithes and offerings a COMMANDMENT of God"? Quoting random LDS leaders and script is biased, LDS conjured junk.
If indeed, tithe IS a commandment of God, NOW, then surely it must have been a command when Malachi issued his "windows of heaven" statement. I see nowhere that tithing was EVER considered a commandment that one MUST obey to live with God! It has ALWAYS been considered a "free will" offering--given from the heart with NO THOUGHT of personal gain--of any kind. As far as I have found, the LDS Church stands alone in dictating to members that it IS A COMMAND--no pay, no exaltation!!
IF tithe were a command we'd have seen it included in the Ten Commands or maybe even in the Articles of Faith or surely it would be found as a command in the D&C or PoGP. Those are ALL silent as to it being elevated to the status of a Command. If it's a "Latter-Day" revelation then you should be able to produce the words of the Prophet who gave it to us--from God Almighty! Can't do it? That's because it's always been a "free will" offering--tied right in with AGENCY--CHOICE!
If you are infering that the LDS Church is "true" because of all the good the Church does with it's billions, just consider that the Catholic Church has the largest outlay of funds for the poor. Or how about the Red Cross? Pays out MILLIONS all over the world--without regard to religion. There are MANY charitable groups spending a TON to help disadvantaged people. LDS ARE NOT unique. In FACT, LDS pay out LESS than 1% of their income on charity--BUT, they REQUIRE YOU to pay 10%!
Here's the info about how pathetic LDS giving really is:
Source: Deseret News January 2006
Quoting Edgley from the church PR Dept.: "Since 1984, the LDS Church has donated nearly $750 million in cash and goods to people in need in more than 150 countries."
Do the math....they spend BILLIONS on a SLC commercial development, but in a quarter century they give a few bucks a year per member. Once again, facts expose their true nature and motives.
Did you read what Jack44M just wrote about the Jan. 2006 DN article? THIS is the one I was referring to.
(Thanks, Jack)
Look it up, scotty, THEN YOU tell us how much money from all sources LDS, Inc has amassed in that 22 year period and prove to YOURSELF that what I said about the "less than1% given to charity by the Kolobian Church (LDS Inc) is true. You bitch about no "evidences"--well, there it is.
The safest thing for you to do, tho, is to just IGNORE IT! It'll go away.....
Nice guy that I am, I did some of the math FOR YOU!
Assuming an avg membership of 10 mil for those 22 years (generous, I know),vs the 750mil donated in "cash and goods", that works out to $75 dollars PER MEMB, PER those 22 years. That's $3.41 PER YR, PER MEMB. or, less than THIRTY CENTS (.30 cents) PER MEMB. PER MONTH!
Now, YOU tell us how much LDS Inc. accumulated as income from all sources over that 22 year period and judge for yourself as to my "less than 1%" to charity quote!
Do you have an online source citation for the above quote by Edgley? I'm having a similar discussion with another LDS psuedo-apologist about this quote. He denied the existence of said article, so I tried to get access to the archive of the Deseret News to find it and they wanted me to pay for the privilege. I said no, and thought that it has to be somewhere else online--for free. Your help would be much appreciated--from me fer sure. Not so much for the other guy...
@42apostate To bad Thithing wasn't set up to your liking. The Lord speaking in Malachi is enough for me, need he say more? I guess you don't believe the Prophet Malachi either. Maybe God said more in the Book of the Wars of the Lord by Moses, or the Book of Jasher, or The Books of Nathan and Gad, all mentioned in the Bible but left out. What Church do you go to? I think I already know, none. You have your agency it appears and God will have his choice.
I read Malachi and accept him as a prophet. What I DON'T accept is your (LDS) interpretation of Malachi to say that tithing is a Commandment. You FAIL!
If I declare out my hinder parts that God commanded ALL Christians to be circumcized, YOU'd want to see the proof, wouldn't you? AHHH! But YOU want US to accept YOUR interpretation, and ignore OURS!!
I GET IT!!!
It ain't happinin, buddy. NOBODY accepts that tithe is a command but a few ignoramusses at 50 S. Temple SLC!
It's really good to hear testomonies of those getting out of the mormon religion. Keep it up folks!
jlc19702 3 weeks ago
For the millionth time Mormons:
We do not believe in a church or a corporation or a system or a prophet or a doctrine.
We do not follow rules and laws and ordinances made by men.
We believe in Jesus. We follow Jesus.
If you don't like it, why are you here. At least watch the video. You'll hear the heart of true faith.
thesignsoflife7 3 months ago
@thesignsoflife7
So are you a follower of creeds... like the one that lays out the trinity?
Sk8er408 3 months ago
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@Sk8er408
Do you read the KJV?
thesignsoflife7 3 months ago
But you came back to christianity whos hands are covered in centurys of blood.
umaara100 3 months ago
@umaara100
Stay Mormon and worship a book about people who are covered in the blood of millions and millions of Lamanites and Nephites.
endofus 3 months ago
@endofus
This does not even make sense.
Sk8er408 3 months ago
@Sk8er408 God told Joseph Smith not to join any the the Creeds on earth for they were all corrupt right?
Why then did Joseph Smith join the Masons?
endofus 3 months ago
@endofus
They are not a creed or a religion.
Sk8er408 3 months ago
@Sk8er408
The Masonic "Creed" is that Masonry is the worlds dominant "religion"
endofus 3 months ago
@endofus
The Masons are not a religion...
Sk8er408 3 months ago
@Sk8er408
The Mysteries...are all parts of that ancient thread which has its origin in that primeval religion which terminates today in masonry"
Foster Bailey [33rd degree Mason], 'The Spirit of Freemasonry' 30-2
endofus 3 months ago
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@endofus
You are truly ignorant...
Sk8er408 3 months ago
@Sk8er408
Masonry is the descendent of, or is founded upon, a divinely imparted religion
Foster Bailey [33rd degree Mason], 'The Spirit of Freemasonry' 30-2
endofus 3 months ago
@endofus
This proves nothing other then you agree with this mason.
Sk8er408 3 months ago
@Sk8er408
It proves that Joseph Smith is a false prophet and you're the worst apologist I have ever seen.
endofus 3 months ago
@endofus
LOL... your the worst antagonist, hands down.
You make up facts and i call you on them... That does not make me an apologist... it makes you a bad liar.
Sk8er408 3 months ago
@Sk8er408
You sit hear and lie daily.
The truth is not in you.
My facts are correct.
You're still are a terrible Mormon apologist, since all you do is tell lies about the LDS, which is what all cult members and apologists do.
endofus 3 months ago
@endofus
So you just called yourself a liar by calling all cult members and apologist liars.
You are a cult member if you consider yourself christian. and you are an apologist for Christianity (well your view of it anyways).
Sk8er408 3 months ago
@Sk8er408
You think you can destroy me you better think again, my anti-Mormon quest will never end.
You're trapped in the pentagram, you're life is just game to Satan's church of doom.
endofus 3 months ago
@endofus
I know your antichrist quest will never end.
Sk8er408 3 months ago
@Sk8er408
My anti-Mormon (i.e truth teller) quest will never end.
endofus 3 months ago
@endofus
Yes... your antichrist quest to convince everyone of your lies will never end... I believe you.
Sk8er408 3 months ago
@endofus
except that I am a truth teller about Mormonism. LDS being exposed for the fraud that it is!
smile
endofus 3 months ago
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@Sk8er408 whatever, chew on this hard to swallow fact.
the curse" was preserved through the Egyptians (Abraham 1:21) Joseph Smith claimed to be from the tribe of Ephrain, son Joseph who married and had children with his Egyptian wife (Gen 41:50-52). So according to the Book of Abraham, Jospeph Smith would be ineligible to hold the Mormon priesthood!
endofus 3 months ago
BE AN ORGAN DONOR-GIVE YOUR ♥ TO JESUS! ☺
dustymiller65 4 months ago
Thumbs up! Thats as real as it gets. Thank you Jesus!
TheSoulamore 4 months ago
So depression means change churches is what I just got out of what I heard altho I could only make it so far thru idiots speaking of how they changed their faiths from whatever to whatever and making excuses why and how that made them better
KINGxB 4 months ago
@KINGxB Zero archeological evidence + zero genetic evidence + numerous different accounts of the first vision + numerous false prophecies = equals a religion built on falsehoods. Joseph was a treasure digger who was renowned for his story telling. Deuteronomy is clear that a true prophet of God must be right 100% of the time. Smith fails this test. For example, no 6 ft tall Quakers on the moon. No temple in Independence, MO. No 56 yrs until Christ returned
endofus 4 months ago
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KINGxB 4 months ago
@endofus ok, thats not what I gathered from what I could stand to watch as it was just boring but ok if you say that's what's in the video I suppose it's possible...
I don't believe that a prophet would have to be 100% tho as man is never 100% and so many things are misunderstood so even if they are right people may interpret them as wrong as somany things have been in the past...
KINGxB 4 months ago
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@KINGxB why should we follow you're Mormon prophet then. you make him sound no different then a Baptist preacher. Why would I follow just a Mormon mans opinions?
Thanks, now I won't join the LDS. I am going to cancel my missionary meeting for today.
endofus 4 months ago
@endofus I'm not mormon so what are you talking about?
The prophet is supposed to have the ability to speak to god for revelation and guidence of the church and there is a way that he is proven and if he trys to detour the chuch then he would be removed by someway...
KINGxB 4 months ago
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@KINGxB You have been forced into a position that diminishes Mormonism and revelation. You're saying Revelation is a ambigious, flawed process, which prophets mistake their own ideas for God's which neuters Mormonisms most basic element - continuing revelation
endofus 4 months ago
@KINGxB If a Mormon prophet, presiding as God's mouthpiece over the Church only offers opinions; what possible value is there in having a prophet? Everybody has opinions.
endofus 4 months ago
@endofus The idea is to keep the link between man and god so that the chuch remains and stays stron instead of falling like it had done so previously...
KINGxB 4 months ago
@KINGxB
The church never fell away, that is another Mormon falshood. Mormonism is part of the great falling away.
endofus 4 months ago
@endofus What do you mean the church never fell? Have you looked at the Christian church and it's retarded ass greedy split up sections??? only a fucking idiot would say Christianity didn't tank itself!
KINGxB 4 months ago
@KINGxB
The Mormon Church has over 150 different splinter groups (i.e Warren Jeffs)
Thanks, by you're own standards you prove the LDS false.
endofus 4 months ago
@endofus They don't recognize them and I never tried to prove them right but equal at a minimum to others and Warren Jeffs is just a fucked up psychopath from what I gather that was smart enough to do so much and dumb enough to still get caught...
KINGxB 4 months ago
@KINGxB
LDS is split into different groups, so by you're standard, the LDS is false.
endofus 4 months ago
@endofus I never set a standard or said they were right above others I am not arguing who's right or wrong just that they are equal if u look at it logically... They have no more crediblity than one another so it's rediculous to discriminate towards one when it has just as big a chance of being correct... You just seem to wanna twist words and be right tho when you don't even seem to know what your arguing so I'm done unless you can stop wasting my time...
KINGxB 4 months ago
@KINGxB
I am saying Christian are right above others like the LDS, and the Mormon church is the easiest religion to disprove.
endofus 4 months ago
@endofus The LDS church is only as easy to disprove as Christianity... Also many other religions are much more believable or just as believable as Christianity... Your faith does't make your religion right to everyone else just to yourself so look at the big picture and just except people and their religions because as crazy as you think theres is, yours may look just as crazy or even crazier to others...
KINGxB 4 months ago
@KINGxB
Christianity is not easy to disprove at all, LDS is the very easy to dispove, for example:
All of Jospeh Smith's prophecies have been proven false.
endofus 4 months ago
@endofus Christianity can't agree on anything and is infact just as easy to disprove as the LDS Church... Try actualy proving either with facts or disprove with FACTS! Just because the Bible "KJV Old Testement really" has been proven to keep approx. 95% accurate translation "not meaning" does not mean Christianity has been proven... Judaism is closer than Christianity to being a proven Religion and it's older... Just get over it and accept them or atleast that yours is no more factualy proven...
KINGxB 4 months ago
@KINGxB
Christianity still has the anceint churches of Paul and Peter all over the Mediteranian world and there letters.
LDS has nothing
endofus 4 months ago
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@endofus
They do not have their letters. Unless they were recently found...
Sk8er408 3 months ago
@19 minutes... Audible voice my ass. What a crock of shit.
rrg019000 4 months ago
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People who leave mormonism leave because they cannot keep the rules..
tse93s 4 months ago
hhahaha If he was a seminary teacher he would have READ the new testament lonnnnggg before
tse93s 4 months ago
hit the gym matt. jesus. just because your not a whack job anymore doesn't mean you can let yourself go. shape up fag.
halgasjr 5 months ago
Praise God for these ppl are able to know the real truth! God bless them and their families!
vikakond 5 months ago
@chriscason24 Yes, this is a pretty heavy topic so we sort of have a warped sense of humor about it because otherwise, it'll be too much to bear. I take a break periodically, too, because I'm a busy guy outside of this.
I try to love Mormons as Christ would have us do, but I, too, sometimes get a little combative. I think it's normal.
moparmonster1965 5 months ago
@chriscason24 No problems; I see you know your stuff so keep up the good work on your end, too. God bless and keep you and yours.
moparmonster1965 5 months ago
@chriscason24 I agree and I'm sorry, I thought you were a Mormon at first.
moparmonster1965 5 months ago
Praise God! There is nothing like that moment when your eyes are opened for the first time. "My chains are gone, I've been set free; my LORD, my Savior has ransomed me.."
jeanniem76 5 months ago
@chriscason24 I have and the 'other sheep' aren't the fictional Nephites because they never existed. Those mentioned are the Gentiles, not figments of Joseph Smith's imagination.
moparmonster1965 5 months ago
This is a terrific video, Aaron. Thanks for posting it.
I hope it helps people see the lies that the church tells its followers.
moparmonster1965 5 months ago
@snoopthecrimesolver we believe in christ. we believe in the bible thus we are CHRISTIANS thanky have a nice day :)
18ishbree 5 months ago
Other than those little facts, you're right.
moparmonster1965 5 months ago
"...as far as it is translated correctly..." (AOF #8) Let's not forget that the BOM makes it clear that the Bible is missing many 'plain and precious things' at least eight times and that Joseph Smith had to 'retranslate' the Bible (D&C 73:3-4) to correct the thousands of errors in it (Teachings of the Prophets of the Church, Joseph Smith, p 208) and that he claims to have done so (HOTC 1:324, 368-9) even though the Mormon god hasn't bothered to allow you to use the Joseph Smith Translation.
moparmonster1965 5 months ago
@moparmonster1965 mormon god??? haha r u on crack? we dnt have a "mormon god" we worship the one and only god
18ishbree 5 months ago
@18ishbree The facts are that the Mormon god attained his godhood, is separate and distinct from the Mormon jesus, and that he has a body of flesh and bone, things not in either the BOM or the Bible.
Since Mormonism assumes the inherent goodness of mankind, the sacrifice of Jesus Christ Almighty is diminished and demeaned. That's why works are more important than grace to the LDS; this is autosoterism, man being his own savior.
moparmonster1965 5 months ago
@18ishbree So you aren't Mormons?
ThW5 5 months ago
@18ishbree Its cool if your Mormon and that works for you but to me you just lied, because you said the one and only God. Mormons have more than one God, there is the one God who created mankind, the one you pray too, but Jesus is a God to himself, and so are any saints who live perfect lives so Joseph Smith is or will be a God I assume because the highest level of heaven is you get to become a God yourself, rule over your own planet. God had the same experience, on some other world right?
ASexyChef 4 months ago
just like drug addics you just exchanged habits
FUwogs 5 months ago
"I decided to read the NT" I'm wondering why he hadn't read the NT before that time. We study the Bible in church, we are encouraged to study the scriptures on our own. My kids knew every Bible story, even the ones adults didn't know, by age 4-6. My 12 year old is almost through reading the NT on his own. No wonder these people left the church. So sad. I love how they mention bishoprics as if that is supposed to mean something.
peaceliberty4all 5 months ago
MORMONS ARE CHRISTIANS. PEOPLE NEED TO LEARN THAT. WE ARE GOOD PEOPLE. THE SAME LIKE ANYBODY ELSE
18ishbree 6 months ago
@18ishbree You swear secret blood oaths and have to wear church underwear. Mormonism is a weird cult.
Kannon12 5 months ago
@18ishbree If the jesus in the BOM was the same one we find in the Bible, I'd agree. Yes, Mormons are usually decent, hardworking, honest people, but doing the right thing for the wrong reason still doesn't make Mormonism correct.
moparmonster1965 5 months ago
@18ishbree Christians believe Jesus and God and the trinity are one thing, Mormons think Jesus is his own person, and his own God, God also seems to come from another planet, were he lived maybe like Jesus and became a God himself, & than there is the holy spirt, which is another person, and I think a God undo himself, God has a wife, so Mormons really are not christians, you believe in Christ but its a new book with a new version of God, its a totally different religion that fine but be honest.
ASexyChef 4 months ago
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@dharma099 Mormon forefathers bore their testimonies for a different set of doctrines that are now said to be false by the current LDS church.Some of these doctrines were: Adam as God, polygamy is essential to salvation, blacks will be denied the priesthood until the second comming of Christ, blood atonment and death oaths. If Mormon forefathers testimonies can't be trusted what makes you think yours can be trusted, what makes you better then Joseph Smith and Brigham Young?
endofus 6 months ago
@dharma099 yeah because its too far of a strecth tom actually believe someone would leave mormonism
lilbeaveymac 6 months ago
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"the curse" was preserved through the Egyptians (Abraham 1:21) Joseph Smith claimed to be from the tribe of Ephrain, son Joseph who married and had children with his Egyptian wife (Gen 41:50-52). So according to the Book of Abraham, Jospeph Smith would be ineligible to hold the Mormon priesthood!
endofus 6 months ago
ANSWER THE QUESTION APOSTATE, WHERE SHOULD THE MONEY GO OTHER THAN HELPING THE POOR, CHURCHES, SCHOOLS, HUMANITARIAN AID TEMPLES, EMPLOYMENT CENTERS,WELLS IN AFRICA,COLLEGES,,DESERET INDUSTRIES, WHEEL CHAIRS, AND SCHOOLS ETC. ANSWER THIS OR I NEED NOT RESPOND ANY LONGER.
scottwins2 7 months ago
@scottwins2
How would I know where it should "GO"?
If the Kolobian Church (Mormonism) (LDS, Inc) would publish it's finances, THEN I might be able to answer that. What I DO KNOW is that LDS takes in 3-4 billion p/yr and only pays out 35 million p/yr in charitable donation! 1% or less when they demand 10%+ from members--along with the threat that IF YOU DON'T pay you can't live with God in CK's highest degree!
Why shouldn't I say "WE"? There are many people out here that feel the same way.
42apostate 7 months ago
@scottwins2
I think you need to retire from this since you are not contributing ANYTHING!!
Ya crybaby!!
42apostate 7 months ago
@scottwins2
I see you lack logic, so I'll do the math FOR YOU!
Assuming an avg membership of 10 mil for those 22 years (generous, I know),vs the 750mil donated in "cash and goods", that works out to $75 dollars PER MEMB, PER those 22 years. That's $3.41 PER YR, PER MEMB. or, less than THIRTY CENTS (.30 cents) PER MEMB. PER MONTH!
YOU tell us how much LDS Inc. accumulated as income from all sources over that 22 year period and judge for yourself as to my "less than 1%" to charity quote!
42apostate 7 months ago
THERE YOU GO AGAIN" 3 BILLION DOLLAR MALL AND YOU SUPPOSE ITS THE CHURCHES BABY. YOU NEVER GIVE ANY FACTS
scottwins2 7 months ago
@scottwins2
Are your poor witto fingers broken so you can't get the facts yourself?? Google for it, dimwit. I'm not yer mommy.
42apostate 7 months ago
As I have said and it goes unrefuted, just like the Southern Baptist Convention The Mormon Church verify's no expendature or business transactions to anyone. So to have people on here make statements on finances is irrisponsible and picking at straws. Is this an unreasonable expense? Go to "THE MOST INSPIRING VIDEO I HAVE EVER SEEN" here on you tube. Wasted money I suppose, those stupid Mormons!
scottwins2 7 months ago
I live in Idaho and I am a born again Christian. I am basically a fish out of water with all the Mormons around me. I just listen to how they "brag" about their works and try really hard to be justified, and I pray for them and tell them with Christ comes grace and a desire to serve out of love.
sheeplereaper 7 months ago
If it bothers you so much that a religious organization has so much or spends only such and such money why don't you call them at The Church Office Building in Salt Lake City, Utah it will giv eyou somebody to complain directly to.
scottwins2 7 months ago
@scottwins2
I've tried that (not on that topic). It turns out that they at COB really don't give any more of a rat's ass about us than they do you membzs!
I'll tell you like I told them: "by their fruit they are known".
42apostate 7 months ago
The LDS church never discuses or releases any monetary numbers, The only one i have ever seen is the $1,000,000,000 in welfare given over the years. The cost to run schools, universities, hopitals, build new churches of about one per day, and temples have never been addressed to any media that i know of..
scottwins2 7 months ago
@scottwins2
All that building is just seen as another advertising expense.
Maybe you can share the citation re the 1 billion figure on the Morg's charitable contributions...? But that sounds about right. It was 3/4 of a billion between 1984 and 2006 so another 1/4 billion in the last 6 years sounds reasonable. Nowhere near the 3 Billion they are spending on the Jesus Mall in downtown SLC., however.
(Gotta make sure those commercial interests are served, eh?)
42apostate 7 months ago
@scottwins2
It's not true that the LDS have "never" released a record of their finances. Before about 1958 they DID publish their finances. Now it seems they don't want YOU MEMBERS to know that they pay their upper-echelon leaders a minimum of 50K a year for their services--called a "stipend". The reason for keeping it under wraps, is the LDS' 130 year record of badmouthing those OTHER churches, for paying THEIR ministers a salary for THEIR services. It would be very embarassing for them.
42apostate 7 months ago
@42apostate Well, since you as a non member knows what the finances are of the Mormon Church. Without disclosures from them please post here once a year to keep us updated. In fact call them at there church office building and tell them too in case they don't know too.
scottwins2 7 months ago
@scottwins2
I AM a "non-Member NOW--but I WAS a member (BIC) for 50+ years!! Do you REALLY think I could spend that amount of time there as a member of a bishopric, a Stake High Counciman, BYU, and a stint as Gospel Doctrine teach and NOT gather some facts and figures along the way??
Stay in denial, scotty. It's safer that way...
42apostate 7 months ago
@42apostate THE FACTS ARE YOu DECIDED TO SKIRT THE ISSUE, YOU DON'T KNOW THE FINANCES IN THE MORMON CHURCH, PERIOD. is there alot of money? it appears to be so. but where is it going? No place you want it too for sure. where do you think it should go to other than helping the poor, schools, colleges, universities, humanitarian aid, churchs, temples, books etc. As for the billion dollars, maybe they understated it, this would not be a lie since the billion would be correct its just more.
scottwins2 7 months ago
@scottwins2
What makes you think I'm "skirting the issue"???
I came RIGHT OUT AND STATED the issue, "The LDS Church does not publish it's finances--like most OTHER churches DO"!! HOW is that "skirting"?? It's plainly stated! Everyone KNOWS this fact. It's so OBVIOUS it doesn't even NEED to be said!!
So, the OBVIOUS question that WE'RE asking is one that YOU members should be asking...Where is the billions going and what is it being spent on? The 3 bil. mall is ONE piece of the puzzle...
42apostate 7 months ago
@scottwins2
The REAL question for us is NOT "HOW MUCH" (we don't give a crap about "how much"!!). The REAL question is "WHY?"! Why won't they disclose their finances? WHAT are they doing that THEY don't want YOU to know about??
NOBODY hides their finances without a good reason! What IS THAT REASON for LDS, Inc., and how would that reason compare to what JESUS CHRIST would do with the money--IF He were REALLY in charge of LDS, Inc!!
WE KNOW He is NOT in charge, soo....
42apostate 7 months ago
@42apostate Don't use we in your statement, Why don't you ask the say the Catholic Church? they are bigger and certainly must have more money you can complain about. Or the Baptist on the TV those ministries do pretty good, hey why not give old Pat Robertson a call I bet his car is pretty nice. You could demand the same from him. Oh I am sorry you not able to answer any questions only complain about what you think you know or think you should know. Must be tough on you not to know.
scottwins2 7 months ago
I'm not a Mormon anymore and you don't need to be either. If you want to leave/resign you LDS membership just email Greg Dodge at dodgegw at ldschurchorg. Greg is the head guy at the LDS Church Office Building (Records Office) in Salt Lake City and will help you. Simply state that you want to leave based on your belief that the LDS Church is not what it claims to be. Help Greg out by Giving your full name and birth date as well as baptism date (if known).
Within 30 days you should be out.
42apostate 7 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Don't forget to replace the "at" with the @ symbol and close the gaps in the address and the dot between "church and org". (It's a YT rule that won't allow email addresses or websites in their full glory.)
This really is so easy even a caveman can do it! The best part is that you and your family will not be harrassed by LDS Inc. again. (I haven't been, but there's no iron clad guarantee.)
PM me at my channel for more information or questions on the process.
42apostate 7 months ago
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42apostate 7 months ago
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42apostate 7 months ago
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42apostate 7 months ago
Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth... The word gospel means good news. The good news is that Jesus Christ has made a perfect atonement for mankind that will redeem all mankind from the grave and reward each individual according to his/her works. Ask God and trust not in the arms of flesh... lean not on your own understanding for it is the knowledge of the truth that will set the world free.
knowledge999999999 7 months ago
@knowledge999999999
The problem here, friend, is that you are ASSUMING A TON, that Mormonism IS THAT "gospel" of which Romans 1:16 speaks? That's a LOT to assume--without SOME proofs!
Are YOU NOT "trusting in the arm of flesh" when you choose to "follow the prophet" and to "follow the LDS church"? Did you not also "lean on YOUR OWN UNDERSTANDING" in becoming LDS (or committing to LDS)?
What are the criteria YOU use/used to determine that the Catholic church was not "God's church"?
42apostate 7 months ago
The lies you refer to are the rantings of the Mob, Never any proof, mostly heresay, always to hurt never to lift up. hate and anger is your watch word it appears. I would be naive to say that any organization can' survive without some sort of money to move along its causes of serving the greater community. Example, Hurricaine Katrina, did you know that relief trucksfrom the LDS Church were on the way to help those ineed before Katrina hit? Now if there was no money that could not have happened.
scottwins2 7 months ago
@scottwins2
If you were to list the reasons that you wouldn't join, say, the Catholic Church (HRCC), I dare say that you would list some things that CATHOLICS would refer to as "never any proof", "heresay", "only looking to hurt never to lift up", and would likewise accuse YOU of being full of "hate and anger". Yet, all you're doing (SAME AS WE DO in evaluating LDS, Inc) is to list the reasons, WITH THE EVIDENCES, that causes (in your opinion)the HRCC to come up short. No hate involved!!
42apostate 7 months ago
@scottwins2
Justy because you DECLARE our evidence to be the "rantings of the Mob" does not diminish the facts we present. All you're doing is denying that our evidences have any meaning. It is simple DENIALS. That's your ONLY defense to the facts presented?--your ONLY recourse?--to DENY, without counter evidence??
Poor, poor tactic.
But that's okay! We know that most "investigators" will see through the LDS denials and evasions and smoke screens (thanks to the Inet), so you're helping..
42apostate 7 months ago
@scottwins2
I've presented to you the EVIDENCE that Mormons HAVE TO PAY MONEY in order to live with God. The proof isn't in some silly "anti-Mormon" rag--you can find it (if you open your eyes just a tad) right in your OWN literature. Will you be able to see it as PAYING FOR SALVATION? No, you don't DARE see it for what it is because YOU KNOW that if you did, the whole facade of Mormonism would crumble--and you couldn't hande THAT prospect...
So keep those blinders securely in place!!
42apostate 7 months ago
@scottwins2
If it's "proof" you want without the "heresay" (and the PAYING for salvation evidence is not enough for you), let's discuss LDS racism, misogyny and homophobia (against the backdrop of Christ's # ONE Comm. of love). There again you will be convicted, not because of some mindless anti-LDS propaganda, but by YOUR OWN PUBLICATIONS, STATEMENTS OF LEADERS AND DOCTRINE!!
WE HAVE the evidences that LDS, Inc is NOT what it claims to be. That you'll DENY the evidence is not our problem!
42apostate 7 months ago
@42apostate Sorry, your thoughts are convoluted, argumentative and you never do give any facts only heresay and evidence of the Mob. So I end this conversation to nowhere.
scottwins2 7 months ago
@scottwins2
I admit that my comments MAY be "convoluted" and I'm sorry that you were unable to follow them (UNwilling probably fits better).
What kind of evidences WOULD you accept? ANY?
Why can't you just admit that there exists NO EVIDENCE OR PROOFS that would change your LDS perspective,---rather than blame me for not performing better than I have??
That's being DISHONEST, scotty!
42apostate 7 months ago
I wish these people understood what the word Faith really means...
L1oNsD3N 7 months ago
@L1oNsD3N
Man, once surrendering his reason, has no remaining guard against absurdities the most monstrous, and like a ship without a rudder, is the sport of every wind. With such persons, gullibility, which they call faith, takes the helm of reason, and the mind becomes a wreck.
- Thomas Jefferson
It's this reliance on faith alone that has caused there to be 20,000 differing Christian religions in the world and is PROOF that faith alone leads NOWHERE!
42apostate 7 months ago
@L1oNsD3N
If you are talking about "faith" in Jesus Christ ALONE (not faith in "the Church" or "faith" in some fallible HUMAN BEING) THEN and only then, will you be on the right path. In order to BE on that correct path, you HAVE to be free of ANY preconcieved ideas as to what God wants of you. To "follow" (have faith in) another human can lead to disaster. We (individually) have to come to Him TOTALLY STRIPPED of all prejudices in order for the Spirit to lead. THAT is true "faith".
42apostate 7 months ago
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"I would that ye should come unto Christ, who is the Holy One of Israel, and partake of his salvation, and the power of his redemption. Yea, come unto him, and offer your whole souls as an offering unto him, and continue in fasting and praying, and endure to the end; and as the Lord liveth ye will be saved." Joseph Smith Jr
scottwins2 7 months ago
@scottwins2
True enough, scotty!
But...U don't need a "church" in order to do that--tho it DOES help to do these things with others who believe likewise. To follow a person OR a "church" detracts from following Christ, that you eloquently expressed--or that Joseph expressed--tho, I don't think God is impressed with words but is more impressed with what you REALLY think and what you REALLY DO. How you live is what will convict or exonerate in the end.
NOT what "church", OR HUMAN U followed.
42apostate 7 months ago
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@scottwins2 said (someone marked it as spam):
"I would that ye should come unto Christ, who is the Holy One of Israel, and partake of his salvation, and the power of his redemption. Yea, come unto him, and offer your whole souls as an offering unto him, and continue in fasting and praying, and endure to the end; and as the Lord liveth ye will be saved." Joseph Smith Jr.
42apostate 7 months ago
Malachi 3:8 Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings. 9Ye are cursed with a curse:... 10Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it. 11And I will rebuke the devourer for your sakes.
scottwins2 7 months ago
Excommunitcated and Bitter I see
scottwins2 7 months ago
@scottwins2
...sounds more like happy to be free of the Mormon Cult. lol
Jack44M 7 months ago
@Jack44M Ah, another bottom feeder, who spreads hate and heresay.
scottwins2 7 months ago
@scottwins2
"Bottom feeder"? LOL!!
Calling someone a "bottom feeder" is intended to be the opposite of "hate and heresay"??
Thanks for once again demonstrating what Mormonism has done for you--how it brings such joy and peace and kindness to your fellowman...mmmm....
42apostate 7 months ago
@Jack44M Eph 5:23 Every member of the church must seek God and gain their own testimony of the restored gospel... Prov2,3 knowledge and understanding must be sought after as hidden treasure. In Lehi's vision many walk away from the tree of life... Only through divine revelation can we come to know the truth. I know God lives and I also know by the power and gift of the Holy Ghost that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is the only true living Church on the earth... Seek knowledge
knowledge999999999 7 months ago
@knowledge999999999
Funny you mention Lehi's "Tree of Life". Did you know it was actually one of Smith's father's stories and he copied it into the Book of Mormon? Same story.....just pretended it was Lehi's dream or vision. lol
Jack44M 7 months ago
@Jack44M That is a bunch of .........NO facts , no dates, no nothing as usual.
scottwins2 7 months ago
@scottwins2
Try reading Lucy Mack Smith's biography...... You really are one dumber than a bag of hammers. lol
Jack44M 7 months ago
@Jack44M Lucy wrote about the dream Long AFTER the Book of Mormon was published. You would have a hard time one day after a dream to remember anything since they are notoriously ephemeral. Lucy's account is influenced in its verbiage by the Book of Mormon. Lucy either used the material in the Book of Mormon to bolster her memory, or it influenced her memory. It is a fact Joseph Smith Sr. had a dream but did Joseph get The Tree of Life from it? There is no evidence, no facts as usaual.
scottwins2 7 months ago
@scottwins2
Lucy relayed the story BEFORE there was a BofM; along with how Joseph would entertain them with stories about ancient Indian civilizations.
You keep parroting about no facts; how about you list some facts that prove Lehi even existed. The location of Zarahemla.....Hill Cumorah....etc lol
The ananchronisms alone prove the BofM is a 19th Century novel.
Jack44M 7 months ago
@scottwins2
GEE!!!
Kinda like YOU, eh?
As if you really WANT those facts and dates on JS SR's Tree of Life Vision that found it's way (mysteriously) into the BoM. It would take you about 2 minutes to Google for it and you'd HAVE all the facts you need. You won't do that, tho. You'd rather stand back and bitch and moan!
I've been trying for a week now to get some "facts n data" out of YOU--to no avail...
42apostate 7 months ago
@knowledge999999999
I ALSO "KNOW" that God lives, that Christ IS our Redeemer--and I also know by the power and gift of the Holy Ghost (the barer of TRUTH) that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints is NOT the "only true and living Church on the earth".
I KNOW that such does NOT exist. I KNOW that He doesn't CARE what "church" you belong to. I KNOW that Masonic rituals will NOT "save you"--nor will prayer and taking sacrament--NOR will bearing testiphoney!
What you DO, might!.
42apostate 7 months ago
@scottwins2
Nope! RESIGNED MY MEMBERSHIP in 2001 of my own free will!--but you'd take great diabolical GLEE in IT if I HAD been exed, wouldn't you? That's a testament to the love that exists in Mormonism--AND their lack of belief in their own teachings--especially that pesky Article of Faith # 11. Look it up and feel the pain of guilt as you do.
42apostate 7 months ago
@42apostate I wouldn't take great "diabolical glee" if you were ex-communicated.
cindybin2001 7 months ago
@scottwins2
Well. The ONLY thing I'm "bitter" about is that it took me so long to see the obvious. The bitterness is aimed squarely at ME!
Why would you think me bitter because I point out something that SHOULD make you cringe!--and every other Mormon that pays tithing to Corporate LDS?--the INSANE idea of having to pay a fee or purchase a ticket/pass (however you chose to phrase it--it all comes down to the same thing) to be able to live with God. It's equally absured as RCC "absolution"!
42apostate 7 months ago
@scottwins2
To their credit the RCC got rid of their most egregious BS (absolution and Geo Centrism). But typically the LDS Church just has a REAL HARD TIME letting go of their stupid stuff, like: their racism, their polygamy, their misogny, and their homophobic insanity. This fee thing is just as stupid as the rest but the priority for it's demise is probably, admittedly down the list a bit further.
42apostate 7 months ago
If you represent this video I want no part of it.
scottwins2 7 months ago
@scottwins2
I don't claim to "represent" this video. But, I DID leave LDS, Inc., JUST LIKE THEY DID--and for much the same reasons.
Had I known at 12 years old that my church (LDS) charged a fee to get to live with God, I would have left THEN. As it was, it took me another few decades to wake up to the truth of Mormonism--AS WILL YOU, some day...
What is it that keeps you "IN" with this FEE fact staring you in the face?? It's THE MOST absured of LDS doctrine, and yet YOU STAY? Amazing!
42apostate 7 months ago
@scottwins2
Likewise.
If YOU represent the necessity of buying your way into heaven, then, obviously, I want no part of it!
42apostate 7 months ago
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scottwins2 7 months ago
Deuteronomy 26:12 "When thou hast made an end of tithing all the tithes of thine increase the third year, which is the year of tithing, and hast given it unto the Levite, the stranger, the fatherless, and the widow, that they may eat within thy gates, and be filled."
scottwins2 7 months ago
Nehemiah 13:5 "And he had prepared for him a great chamber, where aforetime they laid the meat offerings, the frankincense, and the vessels, and the tithes of the corn, the new wine, and the oil, which was commanded to be given to the Levites, and the singers, and the porters; and the offerings of the priests".
scottwins2 7 months ago
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Malachi 3:8 Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings. 9Ye are cursed with a curse:... 10Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it. 11And I will rebuke the devourer for your sakes.
scottwins2 7 months ago
Scott,
So far you have shown NOTHING that would change my original statement that the LDS Church charges it's members a FEE (a ticket) to get to heaven. (highest deg. of CK--exaltation!)
What's so hard to understand about this? You seem to be "kicking against the pricks" and "straining at a knat" on this truly outrageous, LDS concocted absurdity.
42apostate 7 months ago
oops I quoted from the Old Testament sorry. Most Christians don't use that anymore do they?
scottwins2 7 months ago
@scottwins2
Sure they do. What they DON'T do is manipulate the words to fit their agenda.
As a mat o fact, I'm somewhat surprised that YOU DO--in light of the 8th Article of Faith that questions the reliability of the Bible! The WHOLE Bible is held suspect by LDS because of that 8th AoF.
LDS seem only to use the Bible when it serves their needs--if it doesn't QUITE work, just jimmy the words a bit so that it DOES work!
AND. Guess who it is that gets to "interpret" it CORRECTLY!! mm..
42apostate 7 months ago
@scottwins2
You don't read/respond to anything said here, do you?--and you don't INTEND TO!! Isn't that about it?
Well, frankly, if I were in YOUR shoes, I wouldn't either. If you did try, you'd end up looking the fool you seem to be.
I LOVE LDS PSUEDO-APOLOGISTS!! ALL BLUSTER AND NO SUBSTANCE!!
Did your LDS masters TELL you to do the "non-answer" trick? Or did you figure out on your own that are no intelligent answers to be had for the LDS side?
42apostate 7 months ago
@scottwins2
You should do what all your coHorts are doing these days. Rather than answering any questions or responding on topic, just start with the name calling. Here's a few that I've picked up from other psuedo-apologists along the way: "Liar" is the most popular. Then comes "bigot". Then it's "anti-Mormon" or anti-Christ (as if the two are related). Then it's the boring list of "basher, hater, evil, Satan's follower", etc.
Then there's the really foul language--the LDS true colors.
42apostate 7 months ago
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scottwins2 7 months ago
The responsibility for our social, emotional, spiritual, physical, and economic well-being rests first on ourselves, second on our family, and third on the LDS Church. Under the inspiration of the Lord and through our own labors, we should supply ourselves and our family with the spiritual and temporal necessities of life.
scottwins2 7 months ago
Each member of the LDS Church has two basic welfare responsibilities: to become self-reliant and to care for the poor and the needy.
scottwins2 7 months ago
D&C 42: 30And behold, thou wilt remember the poor, and consecrate of thy properties for their support that which thou hast to impart unto them, with a covenant and a deed which cannot be broken. 31And inasmuch as ye impart of your substance unto the poor, ye will do it unto me; and they shall be laid before the bishop of my church..h. priests, such as he shall appoint or has appointed and gset apart for that purpose.
As Saints we help people in need and the Church does too and it takes money.
scottwins2 7 months ago
Jacob 2:17-19 "Think of your abrethren like unto yourselves, and be familiar with all and free with your bsubstance, that cthey may be rich like unto you. 18But abefore ye seek for briches, seek ye for the ckingdom of God. 19And after ye have obtained a hope in Christ ye shall obtain riches, if ye seek them; and ye will seek them for the intent to ado good—to clothe the naked, and to feed the hungry, and to liberate the captive, and administer relief to the sick and the afflicted".
scottwins2 7 months ago
Tithing is gods way, So now there is money in the system, like any other religion, facts are money help all religions function. One comes along and invests some for rainy days like the economy bad? Maybe you are thinking about all that power money brings and since you have money it must be used for evil. Lets see, Hospitals, Schools, Colleges, Humanitarien aid, Welfare, Crisis mangaement, Counceling centers, and Deseret Industries that help people? Those? Whats wrong with allll, that? NOTHING!
scottwins2 7 months ago
@scottwins2
I suppose you're aiming your comments at me. (It would be helpful to "reply" to the comment made, which will identify the person to whom you're speaking.)
You spent a lot of words talking about the good the LDS Church does with their money. No argument from me on that. The question was, where did the concept come from (BIBLICALLY SPEAKING) upon which LDS have made "tithes and offerings a COMMANDMENT of God"? Quoting random LDS leaders and script is biased, LDS conjured junk.
42apostate 7 months ago
@scottwins2
If indeed, tithe IS a commandment of God, NOW, then surely it must have been a command when Malachi issued his "windows of heaven" statement. I see nowhere that tithing was EVER considered a commandment that one MUST obey to live with God! It has ALWAYS been considered a "free will" offering--given from the heart with NO THOUGHT of personal gain--of any kind. As far as I have found, the LDS Church stands alone in dictating to members that it IS A COMMAND--no pay, no exaltation!!
42apostate 7 months ago
@scottwins2
IF tithe were a command we'd have seen it included in the Ten Commands or maybe even in the Articles of Faith or surely it would be found as a command in the D&C or PoGP. Those are ALL silent as to it being elevated to the status of a Command. If it's a "Latter-Day" revelation then you should be able to produce the words of the Prophet who gave it to us--from God Almighty! Can't do it? That's because it's always been a "free will" offering--tied right in with AGENCY--CHOICE!
42apostate 7 months ago
@scottwins2
If you are infering that the LDS Church is "true" because of all the good the Church does with it's billions, just consider that the Catholic Church has the largest outlay of funds for the poor. Or how about the Red Cross? Pays out MILLIONS all over the world--without regard to religion. There are MANY charitable groups spending a TON to help disadvantaged people. LDS ARE NOT unique. In FACT, LDS pay out LESS than 1% of their income on charity--BUT, they REQUIRE YOU to pay 10%!
42apostate 7 months ago
@42apostate Again, you have no proof of your accusation the amounts the LDS church uses for anything.
scottwins2 7 months ago
@scottwins2
LDS published a report a few years ago that was in the Deseret News. I'll see if I can find it. In the meantime
why don't you come up with some figures from church that will show LDS pays out MORE than 1% to charity.
What's good for the goose...
42apostate 7 months ago
@scottwins2
More whining and excuses....lol
Here's the info about how pathetic LDS giving really is:
Source: Deseret News January 2006
Quoting Edgley from the church PR Dept.: "Since 1984, the LDS Church has donated nearly $750 million in cash and goods to people in need in more than 150 countries."
Do the math....they spend BILLIONS on a SLC commercial development, but in a quarter century they give a few bucks a year per member. Once again, facts expose their true nature and motives.
Jack44M 7 months ago
scottwins2
Did you read what Jack44M just wrote about the Jan. 2006 DN article? THIS is the one I was referring to.
(Thanks, Jack)
Look it up, scotty, THEN YOU tell us how much money from all sources LDS, Inc has amassed in that 22 year period and prove to YOURSELF that what I said about the "less than1% given to charity by the Kolobian Church (LDS Inc) is true. You bitch about no "evidences"--well, there it is.
The safest thing for you to do, tho, is to just IGNORE IT! It'll go away.....
42apostate 7 months ago
@scottwins2
Nice guy that I am, I did some of the math FOR YOU!
Assuming an avg membership of 10 mil for those 22 years (generous, I know),vs the 750mil donated in "cash and goods", that works out to $75 dollars PER MEMB, PER those 22 years. That's $3.41 PER YR, PER MEMB. or, less than THIRTY CENTS (.30 cents) PER MEMB. PER MONTH!
Now, YOU tell us how much LDS Inc. accumulated as income from all sources over that 22 year period and judge for yourself as to my "less than 1%" to charity quote!
42apostate 7 months ago
@Jack44M
Hey Jack!
Do you have an online source citation for the above quote by Edgley? I'm having a similar discussion with another LDS psuedo-apologist about this quote. He denied the existence of said article, so I tried to get access to the archive of the Deseret News to find it and they wanted me to pay for the privilege. I said no, and thought that it has to be somewhere else online--for free. Your help would be much appreciated--from me fer sure. Not so much for the other guy...
42apostate 7 months ago
@42apostate To bad Thithing wasn't set up to your liking. The Lord speaking in Malachi is enough for me, need he say more? I guess you don't believe the Prophet Malachi either. Maybe God said more in the Book of the Wars of the Lord by Moses, or the Book of Jasher, or The Books of Nathan and Gad, all mentioned in the Bible but left out. What Church do you go to? I think I already know, none. You have your agency it appears and God will have his choice.
scottwins2 7 months ago
@scottwins2
I read Malachi and accept him as a prophet. What I DON'T accept is your (LDS) interpretation of Malachi to say that tithing is a Commandment. You FAIL!
If I declare out my hinder parts that God commanded ALL Christians to be circumcized, YOU'd want to see the proof, wouldn't you? AHHH! But YOU want US to accept YOUR interpretation, and ignore OURS!!
I GET IT!!!
It ain't happinin, buddy. NOBODY accepts that tithe is a command but a few ignoramusses at 50 S. Temple SLC!
42apostate 7 months ago
@scottwins2
Yes, God WILL have his choice. Don't hold your breath thinking His and yours will match.
42apostate 7 months ago