Christianity and Morality

[bobbycathey]

If God was perfect he wouldn't have thought mass genocide was okay in the old testament, and then what, he thinks to himself "This isn't right." So in the new testament he does the exact opposite and offers people redemption. Either God isn't perfect because he had to change his mind about what was moral. OR it's all made up. But, if he WAS perfect then every standard he had made from the beginning would have been the correct standard, and he would still be raining brimstone on people today.

[StrikaAmaru]

@MrArpas123 ... Because the Bible is really good at threatening eternal damnation?

Or at least that's what I understand from your topmost video.

[unlikelyatheist]

i love you.

[soth3d]

u are fucking awesome!

[ABAisSCIENCE]

ReligionOfSacrifice isn't saying that Christianity is the oldest religion. He is saying that a religion of sacrifice instituted in the Garden of Eden when God slayed an animal & said, "The seed of the woman will bruise the serpent" is the oldest religion. This was classically conditioning that a human seed & blood shed would conquer sin & the serpent. Seems he is also saying the genealogy of Adam to Noah is confirming the same.

[ReligionOfSacrifice]

Quote in book I mentioned, "These aren't resurrections! I know of no highly respected scholar today who suggests that these vague fables are parallels to the resurrection of Jesus. We only hear this claim from the hyper-skeptical community on the Internet."

Genesis 5 (1,400 B.C.) "Adam (Man) Seth (appointed) Enosh (fatal injury), Cainan (the promised one). Mahalalel (Praise God), Jared (he shall descend) Enoch (teaching) Methuselah (his death shall bring) Lamech (the despairing) Noah (comfort)."

[bryanstrain]

can anyone tell which video of his ends with "good thing im not wrong"

iv been trying to find it but no such luck

[skywize]

@bryanstrain iClejS8vWjo : What if I'm Wrong?

[ToshiroDK]

I wonder if people even understand that, when they do something bad, they themselves will feel bad. And if you do something good, then you will feel good. It's not hard to understand what is good and bad. Good, is what -you- would consider good. Bad is the what -you- would consider bad. If I stole 10 € from you, then I would know that that was bad. If I gave you 10 € because you needed it, that would be good. We don't need a religion to tell us what is good and what is bad.

[skywize]

@Woting14 Actually, most of our morality, unlike christians, is based on logic. Anything that does harm to someone or something is basically bad, and anything that improves or contributes is basically good. Simple logic. You might want to learn it.

[vartimor]

just because you don't see God doesn't mean he does not exist. just wanted to say. love you Scott!!!

[vartimor]

my question is this why do atheists feel the need to oppose christianity the same as christians oppose atheism i just dont get why we have to prove the existence or non-existence thereof of something that doesnt need to be proven? this just goes to show that humanity is flawed. i know that this video had nothing to do with my comment just wanted to ask the question.

[skywize]

@vartimor I won't speak for everyone, but I myself oppose Christianity because of all the harm it's caused, and continues to cause. Most of the Christians I have known are not bad people, however, they follow a religion that does bad things, and will continue to do so because it is backed by so many followers. There are charities out there that do nothing for the people they are there to help, but are still funded by those who don't know any better. Education is an even bigger concern.

[ReligionOfSacrifice]

The problem is we judge things on our own morality, but we also interpret the Bible how we like to see it. The correct interpretation of the Bible shows the Bible to be completely accurate & showing God as incorruptible. The problem is no one agrees on what they think the Bible is saying. For instance, Muslims who follow a pedophile & atheists both seem to see God condoning the rape of three year old girls, but it isn't in the Bible. Because I have logic I ignore both camps of fools.

[skywize]

@ReligionOfSacrifice Actually most of us don't believe any of the bible, knowing that it was taken from Pagan religions long before Jesus was supposedly around. If you look at religions, you will see rather incredible similarities to that of Christianity. Most of us Atheist Fools have studied Christianity and other religions, which is why we left the old ways behind. Thankfully we can do this today without being tortured and burned at the stake, or drown for our beliefs.

[ReligionOfSacrifice]

skywize, how's lode stone around your neck? Those incredible similarities are after Christianity mentioned them. Like Genesis 5 for example "Adam (Man) Seth (appointed) Enosh (fatal injury), Cainan (the promised one). Mahalalel (Praise God), Jared (he shall descend) Enoch (teaching) Methuselah (his death shall bring) Lamech (the despairing) Noah (comfort)."

This shall comfort us - Noah (Genesis 5:29)

Enosh son is how he called for God (Genesis 4:26)

Eve called Cain a man from Lord (Genesis 4:1)

[skywize]

@ReligionOfSacrifice To be perfectly honest, I understood none of that, including the point you were making. This is likely my fault. The point I was making was Christianity was taken from faiths before it. It's god was derived from several Pagan gods, it's Christ (a half man half god) was taken from several other characters like Hercules. It's traditions just swim in Pagan tradition from Xmas decorations to Easter traditions, not to mention that they are both Solstice celebrations.

[ReligionOfSacrifice]

@skywize, I know it is hard for you to think critically, but try it. Read what I wrote again & pick up the book "The Case for the Real Jesus" by Lee Strobel & the section "Christianity's beliefs about Jesus were copied from pagan religions" & then read my text below again & see if anything can actually sink into your thick skull.

Your honesty is at least a chance for hope if you are really honest or are you full of yourself ready to attack again without thought? That would be no surprise for me.

[skywize]

@ReligionOfSacrifice Alright, I downloaded the ebook, de-virused my computer, and read the chapter, lol. It was a bit confounding, He keeps talking about evidence for the resurrection. I know of none. He talks about Mithra, and Baal, and says the story does not match. He also talks of Hercules, and the Pegasus, and how it does not match a resurrection. I agree. However, I never assumed his story was an exact match to anyone elses. Bits and pieces were taken from other stories.

[ReligionOfSacrifice]

@skywize, has it ever occurred to you that all the links to pagan religions to the religion of animal sacrifice which is showing a faith that blood sacrifice will wash away sins are because the religion of animal sacrifice predates all pagan religions?

God slaughtered an animal & classically conditioned that slaughter with the words, "The seed of the woman will bruise the serpent." All religions either come from that or the statement "be fruitful & multiply" by God.

Now read my other post.

[skywize]

It is most likely the founders of the religion took the most interesting bits they could find out of every faith they came across, then added their own stuff to fill in the gaps and make it more noteworthy. As for Jesus Christ, only one person who wrote the bible could have even known him, while all the others were born years, even decades after his death. Mind you, I am not a historian, nor a religious scholar. I did study faiths for about ten years, but most of that knowledge is lost to me.

[ABAisSCIENCE]

@skywize, it's funny that you say atheist fools don't believe any of the Bible. Archeology is completely against you. Science hasn't disagreed with the Bible yet either. Do you realize how old parts of the Bible are? You say pagan religions predate the writing of the Bible. Laughable. Of your parallels which if any can you actually show to predate where the Bible first mentions the parallel. 99% of the time you will fail with that claim. Even if you found the 1% it doesn't discount the Bible.

[skywize]

@ABAisSCIENCE What exactly has archeology found that backs up the bible? Science has not disagreed? Science has kicked it's ass for a long time now. It's disproved a number of things including the flood. I don't care how old parts of the bible are. Really old fiction, is still fiction. Are you seriously saying christianity is the oldest religion? That's too absurd to think about no less answer. ROS knows what he's talking about. to a point. Your just a fool. Read something.

[ABAisSCIENCE]

@skywize, Archeology has done nothing but back up the Bible. Archeology has never gone against the Bible. Aside from Evolution which is proven by men going out from England and in less than a month finding missing links (found to be fake later) is the only thing you have got against the Bible. Please tell me another thing that you think is scientific that goes against the Bible.

No proof for the flood is not proof that it didn't happen. Actually, there is proof of floods all over the world.

[skywize]

@ABAisSCIENCE First, I am a firm believer in the fact that positive claims should have the burden of proof. No one can disprove the existence of the unicorn because it does not exist, therefore there is evidence to disprove. Evolution has already been proven over and over again. As for the rest...What do you want me to disprove, that heaven is on pillars in the sky or that the earth is the center of the universe? Things that have been proven false in the bible are now called metaphor.

[ABAisSCIENCE]

@skywize, There is all kinds of proof for serious floods, but no proof of a world wide flood, but how long ago was it and therefore how deep do you have to look to see the proof?

Evolution is not proven. I personally think man came quickly by chromosomal fusion as the study of DNA seems to point to that as a difference. The Bible never says the Earth is the center of the universe. Nor does the Bible ever call the Earth flat. It actually calls it a circle.

Later skywise.

[MrWaterlionmonkey]

@ABAisSCIENCE

And even if evoultion is provable, it in fact does not go against the bible "And God said, Let the WATERS bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, AND FOWL that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven." and even if evoultion is true it doesnt mean it happened in the lenght of time that scientists claim ethier

Human evoultion is baseless as most bones found may only corospond to monky's and not humans.

[SubstancePrime]

When you make the assertion that God is the standard for morality, as you said, the standard itself becomes arbitrary and loses all meaning.

[Sjarke98]

Morals are objective! And the objective morals are Gods subjective morals! And we know they are good and he doesnt have to explain why he feels that way because he can kick your ass and you should be shitting your pants by now!

(`´.) (`´.) (`´.) !!

I love this way of thinking.

[Rienusdepienus]

all i hear is:: blahblabla

[patienceking]

I heard a woof on your last explanation there. I assume that was your trusty ole TheoreticalBulldog.

[zdennyfamily]

Once again your reason and common sense is dependent on culture and tradition. As a result, it will be subjective. For example, murder in some cultures especially in jails is not necessarily considered bad.

If you want a moral standard, you simply need to understand that the nature of God is unchanging. The Bible says that God is love and this is the nature from which he directs the Creation.

If you think Agape love is a bad thing as Ayn Rand does.

[italianman004]

why do talk about God, if you do not believe in God. Why do you feel the need to debate God. peace out ...

[ragetony]

love the hair

[jetsfan3161]

I am my own moral authority. god is bullshit.

[thegood1sweretaken]

Epic win. If you're reading this, rate it a thumb up.

[lynette1953]

@jetsfan3161 tisk tisk

[snorrisnorrim]

ehm.......so the lack of absolutes and antithesis leads to pragmatic relativism.

Your vidioes are very interesting.Gotta go.

[snorrisnorrim]

Allthough I believe that God objectively exsist in antithesis to his Not exsisting, I accept that man thinks differently consering thruth. The judeo-Christian position is rational which means that the things which are around us are not contrary to reason, but is the very antithesis to rationalism, which means having only man as the integration point, to find all knowledge, meaning and value. So rationalism is the unity within non-Christian thought.

[snorrisnorrim]

It all comes down to a question of presuppositions. The christian presuppositions is that there really is such things as absolutes in the area of epistomology, methodology and morality. Absolutes implied antithesis. The christian point of wiev is that the non-christian is operating on a false set of presuppositions, on a basis without sufficient cause, an adeuate base, for doing so. Your standard isn´t rejected but your message is meaningless if we are to follow this line of reasoning.

[Borror0]

I never get why Christians tell us that they are right we are wrong, as God says so. I don't only mean this from a logical point of view but also even from their Holy book.

Genesis 3:22

Then the LORD God said, "Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil; [...]"

Seems to me even the Bible says we can know right from wrong. Unless it contradicts itself later on? It wouldn't be the first time though...

I got a theory on why they say that though, but it isn't nice.

[RyRy6481]

@Borror0 I love you for pointing that verse out to me :')

This is gonna fuck christians up.

[MrWaterlionmonkey]

@Borror0

Actually knowing good and evil isnt a good thing as it becomes subjective in the thoughts of men. For example because we all know good and evil we can say God is evil based on his actions despite not knowing the ramifications of his actions which he says are good. Also we can ignore the evil we do under the pretext a good is derived from it even though we can not possibly know. The knowledge of good and evil is not a good thing

[MrWaterlionmonkey]

We were not meant to have knowledge of good and evil because we are not omniscient and as such can not fully aply it, but in this igorance we believe we are unrestricted in its application which causes pride and aragonce. And God does not like this because it leads to rebellion. So God has to get involved with his defintion of good and evil knowing many of us will not except it because we use our knowledge to refute God regardless of the fact that we in fact know nothing

[FamousLove69]

Great job scott! I tell you for being catholic your making me think about a LOT of things! Great job once again! :)

[Antichrist4Life]

"I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things." - Isaiah 45:7

"Blessed is he who takes your infants and dashes them against the rocks." - Psalm 137:9

"I, the LORD, will gather all the nations to Jerusalem to fight against it; the city will be captured, the houses ransacked, and the women raped. Half of the city will go into exile, but the rest of the people will not be taken from the city." -Zach 14:1-2

MORALITY MY ASS!

[elsmit]

all your verses are taken out of context and arent EXACTLY what they say...a few words are added...you may have looked at it wrong but if you read the whole chapter you will understand who it is said to and why.

[Antichrist4Life]

No, they're not taken out of context at all, nor did I add ANY words to them, they're write out of the Bible, EXACTLY as printed, and I resent your false accusation. And not only did I read the entire chapters, I read the entire books which contain them. They are appalling, as the men who wrote them and created that evil god of yours: a god of rapine, rape and infanticide.

"The Christian God is a being of terrific character - cruel, vindictive, capricious and unjust." - Thomas Jefferson

[kittkat008]

what purpose does a Thomas Jefferson quote serve?

[wemustdissent]

No no Scott you cant say you are perfect and God is falible because God is better than you because he is all powerful and as EVERYONE knows, might makes right. right?

[evTom14]

errr, wrong!, because if gods standard means nothing to me, i can claim to be better than god, and who's to say im wrong? no one, because you can only judge me by your own standards, and your standards mean nothing to me,

[wemustdissent]

sarcasm is lost on you my friend. I'm not sure how you could take someone saying "might makes right" seriously. That was meant to be ironic.

[seanboy360]

"There is no way to check if one morality is more accurate, practical or usefull than another." If THIS statment is true, than there is no real good OR evil. However, there IS evil in this world, there are things that we can say,"This is evil, no matter what the circumstance." If we based morality on what we felt, than what Hitler, Stalin and Pol Pot did should be perfectly acceptable. They did what they felt was right. Ultimately, humans need a moral standard higher than themselves.

[wemustdissent]

did you even listen to his video? The quote you started off with "There is no way to check if one morality is more accurate, practical or usefull than another" was what he concluded IF and ONLY IF christian doctrine was true. Of course he doesnt believe that it is so that isnt his view. His view is that there is a way to discern the difference through logic and common sense.

[drschnaggels]

Yes we can find the answers to all questions in ourselfs. However lets not forget we humans arent pure logical or perfect, sometimes we dont always listen to ourselfs.

[marcosdoliva]

Wow, I've never thought of it that way, Scott. Christians (who think morals come from God) don't really have morals, as you say. They are really at the mercy of God's whim. Good point.

[mybigbearron]

Most often, "Christian" morality begins with fantasy based upon nothing comprehensible.

[mybigbearron]

Morality, simply put, is correct and specific identification of causes and effects, however complex and/or complicated, from one point in time to another. God is not necessary in any of the equations.

[Fringe111]

I also judge my moral compass on how I feel, common sense and the like as you do. Although I'm not an Atheist I don't believe that there is a higher power telling me how to live my life. I find that if I have a moral delima I can find the answer within myself to do the correct and moral thing. Does that make sense????

[TheoreticalBullshit]

Yup. Totally works for me.

I think alot of Christians and other theists tend not to accept answers like that (even though there's no reason not to), so I try to make my views on the issue more technical and verifiable.

[Fringe111]

Yep, that's how I've always seen it. Thanks Scott

[ReligionOfSacrifice]

@TheoreticalBullshit, you're saying if the drugs are working & the girl is hot your moral compass is else where. That's how many would feel without Jesus Christ, a reason to believe a future wife might care, or without experiences conditioning to avoid sex like a married woman pursuing someone while not an adult.

The essence of atheist morality is "how I feel" for premarital sex & the like. Did you know that killers talk about an appetite for something. That is how a feeling is described.

[lemonlaunching]

Well put together statement man. +1