Babylon 5 - My favorite scenes - Dead...dead....dead

[voltron821]

Babylon 5 was a good show. I liked it better than the Star Trek shows of the time.

[Ares99999]

The Narn had it coming.

They HAD been trying to pick a fight with the Centauri for years. Well, they got their fight, and lost it.

They had it coming.

[AlexeiVoronin]

Poor Vir - he is least responsible for what happened to the Narn, yet, of all Centauri, he feels guilty the most.

[friesensoft]

One of the best scenes in B5!

[choclytgremlins]

Stephen Furst (Vir) said in an interview that after they filmed this scene, he was so affected that he cried, whereas Andreas Katsulas just went off and smoked a cigarette like they'd been talking about the weather. What intense performances.

[Wyrmshadow]

@choclytgremlins Andreas ALWAYS smoked, like a chimney. That's what finally did him in. The world is less bright with him gone. Such a powerful actor.

[Spritespitfire]

Here is the thing about the scene, that I took away from it. He didn't ask for nor want an apology, he wanted to know, 'Vir, what are you going to do about it?'

[hcvang]

@Spritespitfire the point of the scene is that Vir CANT do anything about it, and that his apology, to make himself feel better, is irrelevant to G'kar.

[dchris1990]

poor Vir...

[TheJboy88]

As much as I understand G'kar's feelings during this scene I think he was a bit too aggressive towards Vir.

After all, Vir did nothing.

In fact his only crime in the whole series was just keeping quiet about someone else's evil acts.

[Taospark]

@TheJboy88 That's fair. I guess from G'kar's point of view, anyone who was on the sidelines was also prolonging his people's suffering and after seeing that much genocide, hate is the only thing he had left to cling to but the great characters is what made this show.

[hcvang]

@TheJboy88 Seriously? You are one of the people who have hunted down and slain 100s of 1000s of my people. You run into me in an elevator, and feel the need to apologise for your peoples sins... Do you seriously think that is useful to me or something I could appreciate?? You're sorry?! How do you apologise to the hundreds of thousands of my people that your kind killed.

G'kar's reaction is absolutely truthfyk in that scene, and where is the aggression? He doesnt touch Vir(!)

[TheCheftodd84]

aww poor vir's face at the end

[kevlonk]

Most uncomfortable elevator conversation ever.

[Purplecatsoup30]

@kevlonk After the "dead...dead...dead..." thing Vir should have been like: "yes well......nice weather, isn't it?"

[Sagapoet]

Babylon 5 ...the only reason I watched TRON, ah Bruce, good old times.

[Gallowell]

@Sagapoet TRON is brilliant is its own right (the original, not the new shit) but one of the main reasons I started watching Babylon 5 was because I recognised Bruce from TRON. After that, no incentive was needed.

[HiopX]

102 likes

0 likes

it IS possible :D and G'Kar deserves it

[Silfir]

To me, avid fan of both, Babylon 5 at its best was beyond anything Trek could do. But then, you couldn't really watch a whole lot if it all had to be as good as Babylon 5 at its best. You can only ask for so much.

[Silfir]

I like to think that what a lot went on in G'Kar's head while Vir was trying to find the words for the unspeakable. He saw Vir's earnestness and the good in his heart - but it wasn't anything more than a tiny drop onto the burning stove of hatred for the Centauri for what they, as a people, are responsible for. Enough, however, to convince him at the last second to allow Vir to peek into the full extent of his pain over the suffering of his people.

[babylon218]

"...how do you apologize to them?"

"I can't"

"Then i cannot forgive"

Gotta love G'Kar. RIP Andreas Katsulas

[Usul573]

Despite being a big fan of Trek, it feels like it lacks a lot of the bite B5 does at times.

I guess one thing a show should try to do is to feel real, it's difficult for sure.

[flapjackboy]

Vir: "Well, this is awkward."

[3piper]

All lot of fans base Vir on the I ,Claudius comparison.That the man thought to be a fool was the wise and compassionate ruler that saved the Roman Empire from the madness and terror of Caligula.Vir will turn out to be the Emperor of the Centauri

[kevlonk]

Dead...dead....dead...dead...d­ead...

RIP Andreas Katsulas

[Stelmaria21]

poor Virr, he's like the only one who's fault it's NOT and this is what he gets...

[sword4thelord]

@Stelmaria21 true but in fairness to him, I think it's this confrontation that gives him the resolve to do what he did later with the Narn underground smuggling operation. He DID find a way to apologise to them... by saving as many of those that remained as he had power to do so.

[Mithlas0]

This is what good storytelling is, whether fantasy or science fiction. I think a lot of other writers and directors could get a good hint from scenes like this, and more of the depth that B5 has to offer.

Forget who's got the biggest ray gun or best alien, the "do we leave behind who we were" moments trump any starship battle, and B5 does that very well.

[squirreljester2]

That was so unsanitary. :)

[ScreamingTc]

@squirreljester2 Clean up on isle three please! ;)

[3L24]

botht he shadows and vorlons where suppose to be the wardens of the younger races and over the ages they lost sighnt of what there role was and they become inwrappe din the whole our way is the best way do as your told small children or we beat you:).

[trinitymplayers]

This was unfortunately one of the few scenes depicting Vir with G'Kar. But certainly the most memorable.

[melisstryx]

there is no question B-5 still rocks! I got nostalgic the other day and found out I could B-5 episodes on the WB website, and I'll tell you the series is still just as good now as it was then.

RIP Andres Katsulas

[bolrins32]

0:01

[kevlonk]

One of the reasons why Babylon 5 was just such an excellent show.

R.I.P. Andreas Katsulas.

[MarshMonk]

Gulf of Mexico - Dead, dead, dead...thanks British Petroleum - HOW can you apologize Tony Hayward? Answer: YOU CAN'T - AND I CANNOT FORGIVE!!!

[bannedbyMusloons]

@MarshMonk: What? 

[Anlushac11]

This was also one of my favorite B5 scenes. Some great writing in this show and Andreas Kastulas IMHO was a excellent actor in the role of G'Kar.

[Soldierlozer]

Vir really is one of my favorite characters. So is G'kar btw.

[Dreachon]

God how much I have missed this serie, G'kar allways has been one of my favourite characters during the whole series, allways such powerfull lines.

[Hauntedman1]

RIP Andreas great great actor...Gkar was amazing.

[silaku]

Rest in heaven Andreas Katsulas. And thank you for giving us G'kar, by far the most powerful character I have the pleasure of watching, knowing, analyzing, and loving.

[Servodude1]

R.I.P Andreas. A wonderful actor. I never get tired of watching the man work, especially this character. The excellence is unparalleled.

[gruntelite117]

I watched the whole series again this summer, I already want to watch it again.

The racial tension between the Centauri and Narn was incredibly powerful and really driven by the amazing performances of Andreas Katsulas(RIP) and Peter Jurasik (I think that's how you spell it)

My favorite show of all time.

[Horsesboy85]

So powerful RIP Andreas you are missed and will never be forgotten.

[bibchr]

Andreas Katsulas was absolutely stunning in this role. He forever makes a fool of actors who complain that they can't act "under all those prosthetics."

Boy, HE did.

[websnarf]

Yeah, but Stracynzki gave him a reprieve towards the end of the series -- he didn't need to put on a red contact for one of his eyes. :)

[zetetic0void]

Awesome scene...

The unexpected uncomfortable confinement within the elevator! The other great scene within the confinement of the elevator was when G'Kar and Londo were stuck in there!

The drops of blood symbolically representing the dead Narns! And G'Kar's emotive portayal is powerful.

Poor Vir! Seemingly the last bastion of moral goodness within the corrupt Centauri culture of complex self- interested back-stabbing power-mongers (although Londo does reclaim some ethics too!)

[websnarf]

Yeah, this is also a great set up for when it is later discovered that Vir has been helping Narns escape through an "underground railroad". You don't question Vir's sincerity or think of it as a hokey plot device because of this scene. Stracynzki is the master.

[Dedokai32]

I always liked G'kar he was one of the better characters , although typically you tend to like the alien characters because they seem more human.

[websnarf]

Katsulas set the bar really high from the very beginning, but by the end of it Jurasik was acting toe to toe with him.

I think Boxleitner, Furst and Doyle actually improved their acting as the show progressed.

[anmaree]

After this moment I knew there was more to Vir than meets the eye.

[kurigan1001]

This show is very missed.

[redplague]

Not by me, I have them all on DVD.

[Scorpiuszeroone]

Me too, I'm currently on Season 5 of my annual b5 marathon. Muhahahahahaaa!

[horsesboy]

RIP Andreas

[carmic191]

this show had some of the best scenes and great writting

[gribae]

Andrea and Stephen had some of the best scenes (you've just witnesses one)

[niikodas]

and that's why the DVD'S worth $100,00

[smitto21]

Andreas played Tomalok in TNG so when i first started watching B5 as soon as i saw G'Kar i thought "what the hell is Tomalok doin here HAHA

[triqutra]

What amazing scene i loved G'Kar he had such amazing place in the b5 world. Andreas amazing job u are greatly missed

[Lighterfluidmaster]

I feel so sorry for Vir, he actually at one point helps free some of the Narn. I feel sorry for the whole Centauri race,also, they are putting their own noose around their neck despite their best attempts at order.

[sunnchilde]

I remember a scene where Kosh says "They are a dieing race" and Shierdan asks which one is dieing, the Centauri or the Narn? And Kosh says, "Yes."

[Stelmaria21]

I'm quite sorry for Vir in this scene.

He gets 'punished' for things he didn't do, just because he is of the same race as the culprits (? was that the right word ?).

[AsheIsTheRaven]

The irony is G'kar feels just as sorry, which is why he said what he said

[niikodas]

lt. gen. dallaire and rwanda

[sunnchilde]

This scene is the core definition of the Centauri/Narn relationship. How do you make peace after so much blood has been shed? This might as well be written about Israel and the Arab world.

[websnarf]

Indeed -- I always viewed the whole Narn - Centauri thing as a social commentary on Palestine and Israel.

[Tarvoc]

Why Palestine and Israel? It could as well be Tibet and China, or England and Ireland, for example.

[Palanthas]

@Tarvoc

Because what's happening between Palestine and Israel is way different than Tibet and China or England and Ireland.

And the Narn - Centauri situation is an almost perfect match.

[Danny77uk]

Right, so the Palestinians have kicked out the Israelis and built a huge empire by conquering other nations only to be defeated once again by another outside power, aligned with the Israelis?

It's not 'almost a perfect match'; it's very, very different. Stop drawing parallels with a 90s fictional Sci-Fi series. It CHEAPENS the suffering of real people in real misery.

[silaku]

It could be India and Pakistan, Terrorists and Americans, Sunni and Shiites. Any two sides, nation or otherwise, who're obsessed with destroying the other and in the process destroy themselves. A tragedy.

[niikodas]

@Tarvoc or RWANDA

[proadmin1]

@websnarf Not just Narn and Centauri - but American and Pakistani , or Iraqi - or Viet Namese, or perhaps the Irish and English or the Germans and the Russians or Poles , or the Hutu's and Tutsi's - While certainly the Palestinians and Israeli's command a focus of attention, it's a problem for more than just their corner of the world - Tribalism sucks badly - no matter two small tribes, or large nation states.

[seph1r0th400]

The is why B5 pwns Star Trek. And i say this as a huge trek fan

[blueeyedcowboy17]

Oh totally. I grew up with Star Trek...the Kirk series, TNG, Voyager....never really got into DS9, and then I started watching this series. And yeah...nooo comparison hehe. B5 Rawks \m/

[messiahfist01]

I agree. B5 stories are deeper.

[vguyver2]

A shame you didn't get to DS9. I grew up with Star Trek as well, but DS9 and B5 are my favorite. DS9 had tons more to offer then Voyager and IMO was better then Star Trek TNG. In all honesty it started off pretty much like TNG, but got so deep in by season 2. Sisco was a Captain willing to play the role of a badguy to get things done, and managed to be incredibly suspenseful without having to resort to any Borg story lines. Garik was my favorite character.

[orbcon]

I agree, DS9 started off pretty poorly (but so did B5) but got really really good as it went on, would recommend both B5 and DS9 to anyone, 2 incredible shows :D

[gribae]

That's because Star Trek ws slowly losing popularity among its fans and the executive producers decided to bring in a sense of realism to the series to keep it running.

The later Voyager and Enterprise series only serves as axe and executioner for the series as a whole.

While I was a fan of DS9 (seasons 3-5_ I much prefered Babylon 5 for its more philosophical approach

[upthorn]

I have to say that I was a big fan of DS9 back when it was airing, but when I finally got around to watching B5, DS9 became just a hollow imitation for me.

[sunnchilde]

Yes. I would love to introduce the Jem'Hadar and the Borg to The Shadows. I would love to see a Shadow just cut in to the Borg like butter! Then they would scream and phase back in to hyperspace and everyone would be like "Where the hell did they go?"

[Praiosrondra]

@ sunnchilde:

I wouldn't be so sure about the outcome of a battle between the Borg and the Shadows. Because after all the Borg have the abillity to adapt their shields to specific types of energy weapons. So perhaps they would eventually be able to deflect even the blast of a Shadow weapon.

And don't forget the Borg's ability to assimilate new technology at an incredible speed! If they got their hands on even one Shadow ship, even if it were just a small one, the Shadows would be toast.

[Velfarre2001]

I would still put my odds on the Shadows. They can't assimilate ALL technology, Species 8472 proved that. It would likely be a repeat of what happened with Species 8472 wtfpwning them before Voyager got involved.

The Shadows are a bit above the Borg I think.

[KaneinEncanto]

Don't forget the shadow's trump card, used against fleets as well as planets... their cloud of heavy missiles was a pretty nasty device. While the Borg would probably adapt their sheilds to energy weapons, the sheer volume of missile would probably overwhelm them still too...

[bannedbyMusloons]

@sunnchilde: Prove that that weapon can penetrate Star Trek shields or any other Scifi universe shields for that matter... B5 ships have no shields only armor keep that in mind as well.

[sunnchilde]

@bannedbyMusloons It's common sense. The Shadows had a vast empire a Million years ago. Think about how BIG that number is. REALLY think about it. They had bio-tech ships, hyperspace and the cohesion of an insect society that toiled under a single purpose. BACK THEN. Before you and I were even bi-pedal, THEY ruled the galaxy. Even then, the combined forces of all the other First Ones could only fight them to a stalemate. We are BUGS compared to their greatness. We're scum on a rock.

[bannedbyMusloons]

@sunnchilde: Actually no in Science fiction that doesnt count for much look at The culture for example they haven't been around for that long and they can make short work of all he first ones and even the ascended beings in Stargate which truly make nearly all of B5's first ones look like bugs and scum.

[sunnchilde]

@bannedbyMusloons You're letting your love of Star Trek blind you. The First Ones and before them The Shadows have existed for millions of years. MILLIONS. Trek supposedly takes place only 400 years from now. So you propose that humans can develop technology in 400 years that the First Ones couldn't compete with in 5000 times that long? Stop. And think about that. That's ridiculous.

[bannedbyMusloons]

@sunnchilde: OK Stop The Shadows did not come before the first ones. The Shadows and the Vorlons are about equal in age. The techology we see in trek is no exclusively human but Vulcan and from many other races some 10 times older than your beloved Shadows. In Stargate well hell the Ancients and the Asgard were around longer than B5 first ones. :D

[sunnchilde]

@bannedbyMusloons "Beloved Shadows" hahaha I guess I would help them. But they would right to do what they did. And the Vorlons were wrong to tamper with the younger races for thier own benefit. I bet it was the Vorlons who first came to the idea that they were right and the others were wrong.

I guess I would help them. I never really thought about it.

[bannedbyMusloons]

@sunnchilde: They were both wrong and yes it was the Vorlons who decided that it was their way or the highway but both were wrong none the less just like in Stargate the Ancients were wrong in almost allowing life to be wiped out in the milky way galaxy by one of their inventions before they ascended. And just like the Ori were wrong in forcing all sentients to worship them to increase their power. If the Ori ever appeared on the B5verse they would not have a prayer. :D

[Vistico93]

@bannedbyMusloons As said by Delenn: There are beings in the universe billions of years older than either of our races. Once, long ago, they walked among the stars like giants, vast and timeless. ... But to all things there is an end. Slowly, over a million years, the First Ones went away. ... A few stayed behind ... [w]aiting for the day ... when the Shadows come again. ... The Shadows were old when even the Ancients were young. They battled one another over and over across a million years ...

[ScreamingTc]

@bannedbyMusloons Erm....thousands of nuclear weapons, built to penetrate the surface plates of planets? Yeah, I'm pretty much with the shadows winning that one.

[bannedbyMusloons]

@ScreamingTc: Burruwing into the ground and penetrating powerful energy shiellds is not the same thing. Anymore than slicing through a cake or slicing through marble are.

[ScreamingTc]

@bannedbyMusloons

You miss two points - The missiles would have to be made to be with able to handle a lot of kinetic force, so they'd make for impressive kinetic weapons, and that's without point two: Their warheads are extremely powerful - They're designed to kill planets. (Look it up using google).

Also note that planet killers have batteries of secondary particle weapons to protect against ships, as the missiles themselves would be intended for the planet itself.

[bannedbyMusloons]

@ScreamingTc: There is no proof that they use kinetic force to burrow into a planet first of all, they might have some kind of thermal drill that allows them to do so. The speed of the missiles going down was not that impressive. particle beams from B5 would do nothing against shields and much less those missiles, And besides the maximum yield of a nuke in B5 is measured in megatonsn while in Stargate is in the Gigaton range, SG>B5 weapons period.

[argent00]

@blueeyedcowboy17 DS9 id the best Trek series. But that's because it copied a lot from babylon5

[Whyruss2]

@seph1r0th400

Yes. Despite B5 beeing my most fav. series I also enjoy watching Star Trek. But I must admitt that eventhough I liked all series when I watched as a kid no its only TOG and TNG. Voyager and DS9 aren't written too well. Also DS9 stole alot of ideas from B5 (JMS went to Paramount first and showed them his concept of ideas and a bible with the story roughly written out. They rejected it, he went to WB and Paramount announced their own series of a spacestation without having to buy it

[hcvang]

@Whyruss2 There's a reason DS9 is the best of the Star Trek shows... it's a ripoff of Babylon 5 Hee Hee ;-)

[Horsesboy85]

Such a power seen from a show that made so many.

[Lonovavir]

A top right scene. Andreas (RIP) does a great job as does Stephen Furst.

[Stelmaria21]

yes, he has a damn powerful presence there without saying a word.

Quite elaborate.

[arwynt]

This is not science fiction! This is master fiction! Fantastic, one of a kind scenes like this, written, acted and directed like this are what makes Babylon 5 unique! "Dead... dead... dead... how do you apologize to them?"... oh indeed... R.I.P Andreas

[blueeyedcowboy17]

Heck yes!!!! And Vir's hesitation/discomfort is always VERY well done.

[blueeyedcowboy17]

err that should have read *is also VERY well done*

[alanparsonsfan]

@arwynt To be exact, it rises to the level of Greek Tragedy.

[hcvang]

@arwynt What on earth is master fiction?... why cant science fiction be masterful? babylon 5 is the worlds best science fiction series, along with doctor who (they share the number one spot on my all-time top five)... Babylon 5 changed everything in the genre...

[Ryagful]

you forgot Battlestar Galactica (the new one) that is pure epic.

[hcvang]

@Ryagful Personally, I hate that series. Way too grey, grim and gritty... its more a military series than a sci fi series to me, it reminds me more of star troopers than it reminds me of the real battlestar galactica which was a classic space opera...

I could really use another space opera on television... maybe blake's 7 will get re-invented like doctor who was.

[Ryagful]

have to disagree. yes, the new one is dam dark. but it fits with ITS story. don't compare it with others series and make your mind on that.

[bennyenglish]

@hcvang Thing is were does it say a sci fi has to be clean and shine? Blake's 7 was very dark and grimey, in addition its a miliatry sci-fi show...blakes 7 was a political show...doctor who is a adventure show and red dwarf was a comdy all under the umbrealla of Sci-fi. Cool you dont like it as I find star gate (another miliatry) sci fi show however to dismiss it based on a simple element of grim and grit and say its not sci fi (which was implied) would be a little misdirected arguement.

[PassiveSmoking]

@hcvang I consider sci-fi to be a "super-genre", they all draw on the tropes of other genres. BSG, B5 and to a lesser extent Star Trek are sci-fi military dramas. Hitchhikers and Red Dwarf are sci-fi comedies. Star Wars and 2001: A Space Odyssey are sci-fi epics, Doctor Who is a sci-fi with a different secondary genre every week (period drama, comedy, melodrama, etc). Please tell me if there is a franchise out there which is just sci-fi.

[4u57inc0v3110]

@hcvang Well, you're right, but for the wrong reasons. It wasn't that BSG was grim and gritty, it's that it was anti-science right-wing garbage. In fact, that's most of today's so-called science-fiction. They've returned to the whole "ignorance is bliss" message of R.U.R. where science is the source of all of humanity's problems. The founding fathers (Asimov, Heinlein, etc.) would be rolling over in their graves over what passes for sci-fi these days.

[proadmin1]

@4u57inc0v3110 Actually, I tend to view science fiction rather differently. I tend to view a story and then strip it of all the technology, spaceships, and explosions and ask, do you still have a great story here? In the case of B5, BSG, and even some venerable episodes of the ST series, the answer is absolutely yes, you can do that. More over, I think one of the lessons B5 & BSG examine well, is that we should endeavor to treat each other / all of us, better than we do.

[4u57inc0v3110]

Science fiction is always an examination of the human condition, but the case of Star Trek and B5, they didn't end up ripping science in the end. Problem is that there are two schools of thought in sci-fi: "Asimov" and "Rossum". The Asimov School believes that no knowledge is so arcane that it won't be tempered by human wisdom, whereas Rossum believes that the solution to arcane knowledge is ignorance. B5 was Asimov; BSG was Rossum.

[proadmin1]

@4u57inc0v3110 I don't disagree entirely, and if pressed, I would say , while there is a VAST amount of stuff that we don't know, and I think we could have vast amount of knowledge yet to acquire, there are likely some subjects we "baseline" humans will likely not be able to conceive of. An excellent example of this might be Lem's conception of Solaris, as an entity with which we presently have difficulty understanding or conceptualizing around and which might always be so.

[4u57inc0v3110]

@proadmin1 When I say "sci-fi today," I'm not talking about Star Trek or B5. I'm talking BSG and Dollhouse. When you watch the series finale of BSG, you realize the series isn't even sci-fi at that point. It's fantasy, with the Rossum message "Some things mankind is not meant to know." Dollhouse is the same way. In fact, you're more likely to see the spirit of old fashioned Asimov-style sci-fi on early CSI or Bones than you are on a space opera these days.

[proadmin1]

@4u57inc0v3110 Well, I think the BSG writers in particular, while they are EXCELLENT episodic writers, seem to have had a much harder time, fleshing out story / character arcs. I don't doubt it's difficult, JMS, certainly knew how to do it, but in BOTH cases, writers and directors were hamstrung by budgets and interference, and frankly as more than one of the actors have noted some of the writers of BSG, "wrote themselves" into a corner here or there.

[Palanthas]

Acting and script like this made B5 the best series of all time. This is my fave scene as well. RIP Andreas :(

Thanks for the upload!

[blueeyedcowboy17]

Exactly! Yeah, Andreas always put everything he had into his scenes. I was so sad when I found out that he died :( Oh, if yoy get a hold of the newest B5 movie (I forget the name) they have tributes to Andreas Katsulas and Richard Biggs in the special features. Both are very well done :)

[Palanthas]

Thanks for telling me, I downloaded "Voices in the Dark" but I'll probably order it soon since I already have the B5 box sets. I'm so glad they paid tribute to those two great actors, it's really so sad they passed away at such a young age.

On the bright side, JMS is involved (script) in a zombie movie, World War Z :D

[blueeyedcowboy17]

really? Awesome! Yeah, he's such a talented writer. I've been debating whether I should read some of his B5 books.

[Palanthas]

That's something I want to do eventually, I've read the reviews for the various B5 books and everyone says that it fills in the gaps and answers lots of questions. Think I'm gonna start with "The Long Night of Centauri Prime", Mollari's story was so interesting. :)