@tomdenman I couldn't find a better alternative. Your first comment is basically an ad hominem non-sequitur, essentially forcing every weak willed person out there to be obliged to feel a non-existent sense of guilt because you decided that defending an indefensible position which you're only justifying with special pleading while shoving your factless bullshit down our throats was the moral thing to do. Well done, sir.
@Bleumange *sigh* You do realise that WAS my first comment, right? >_> Also, the fact that your describing theists postion as "factless bullshit" is in itself an ignorant and "indefensible" statement which you can't back up without simply stating baseless assertions. Well done sir.
@tomdenman Yes, I was describing your first statement. Nothing i said would apply to your second. I don't understand your position. I can freely criticise claims that enforce a certain dogma upon a demographic, but which are not based on facts, simply crossed-arms special pleading. Stop shifting the burden of proof. If you're trolling, your logic doesnt follow.
Paul Davies: "[There] is for me powerful evidence that there is something going on behind it all…It seems as though somebody has fine-tuned nature’s numbers to make the Universe…The impression of design is overwhelming." Paul Davies is a physicist, cosmologist and astrobiologist working at Arizona State University...
Paul Davies: "[There] is for me powerful evidence that there is something going on behind it all…It seems as though somebody has fine-tuned nature’s numbers to make the Universe…The impression of design is overwhelming." Paul Davies is a physicist, cosmologist and astrobiologist working at Arizona State University...
It matters a lot than *he* changed his mind because he was one of the most qualified scholars of philosophy of religion in the world. This shows that belief in God is not just an emotional bias.
@peteface24 Altzheimers is a disease that takes several years to claim you life. Flew died TWO YEARS after his so-called conversion to belief in god, which means he was already in the ADVANCED STAGES of his brain literally turning into mush. This shows that belief in god, inspite of the overwhelming evidence that NO god-stories are true, is most common amoung people with REDUCED mental faculties. The fact that christians are exploiting his mental illness to support their delusion is pathetic!
@MrHobiecat Your line of reasoning is pathetic for several reasons (NB Prof. Flew passed away six years after aligning himself with Deism, not two). The most important reason is that although his mental condition was in deterioration at that time (as are the conditions of all of us over 20 years-old) there's plenty of evidence that he was sufficiently sane to grapple with the philosophical issues. I live in Reading where he spent the last years of his life.
@MrHobiecat (cont.) I met him, ate with him, and heard him talk. I can assure you that three years ago he was sane and able to discuss the philosophical issues surrounding his change of position with clarity and intelligence, albeit slowly and with some shortness of breath. Now, if you choose not to believe me, if refer you to the large number of things he wrote (including the book) and the recordings of him speaking in those last six years.
@MrHobiecat (cont.) I found his understanding of the subject to be greater than many people in the prime of their lives. // Less important points are that although he had Altzheimers it doesn't follow that his death was caused by that disease having done as much damage as it possibly could, so that is far from proving his philosophical capacities were severely compromised in the relevant period.
@MrHobiecat (cont.) And that if you're attributing religion to low intelligence, it doesn't help to base your case on the 'fact' that God-stories are all false, because that's an obvious presupposition of the truth of atheism, and consequently, very unintelligent.
@peteface24 Altzheimers eats away the brain of the patient, literally creating holes that look like swiss cheese. The illness is always fatal. Depending on which parts of the brain are affected the person loses their mental capacities first, and later the brain is no longer able to command simple body funtions like swallowing and breathing. The fact that you think a highly intelligent man would not be affected by this illness, anymore than anyone else 'over 20' is obscenely ignorant.
@peteface24 The fact that the god storys are false is not a presumption. Based on our best understanding of the nature of the univese and the nature of human life, there is NO aspect of our awareness and consciousness that exists while our brain cells are inactive, either from deep sleep, being sedated, or from injury. If you have no awareness without brain cell activity, you do NOT HAVE a soul that is independant of your physical body. The medical evidence for this is indisputable....
@MrHobiecat ....therefore ALL religious claims that "YOU" will experience ANYTHING after your body dies are false. When you die, you cease to exist. Fit that into any religion and see what you end up with?
@peteface24 One more point on dementia, people with this illness lose their memory in specific areas of their lives. A person may be able to sit with an older sibling and remember many details of their childhood, but they will not recognize their own SPOUSE AND CHILDREN, because the parts of their brain with the memory of their later years is gone. Your understanding of altzheimers is underwhelming. The fact that a patient can sit and carry on a conversation does not mean their mind is OK.
@MrHobiecat Actually sir I know something about Altzheimers seeing as I watched my grandfather suffer from it over ten years and I spent some time looking after him. He never in his life knew who I was. Of course people with Altzheimers are deteriorating more rapidly than everyone else, I didn't say they weren't. This of course is irrelevant since as I already proved, Flew was competent when he accepted Deism since he clearly had enough focus to discuss those issues in depth.
@peteface24 The irony here is that scientist dont 'believe' things because another intelligent person believes then. Science is based on reason, logic, observable data and conclusions that produce usefull applications. Even if Flew's mind was not turning into swiss cheese, the fact that he changed his beliefs does not change the reality of the universe. Religion is based on emotion, not on reality. In order to embrace religion you must REJECT reality, so his so called 'conversion' doesnt matter.
@peteface24 The fact that christian evangelists jumped on Flew's change of beliefs, and use them to promote THEIR beliefs, even though his ideas have NOTHING to do with christianity, speaks volumes on the mindset of religious people. It doesnt matter who agrees with you or doesnt, the facts stand alone, and christianity is not EVEN wrong, its totally absurd.
@MrHobiecat Second, I can't see what life after death has to do with anything. It *is* a presupposition that atheism is true if you think that *all* such 'stories' must be false. I would agree that there is very little evidence for most cases and in some cases alternative explanations which are compelling, but no amount of evidence will prove that they're all false, and indeed that is not a question that science can test.
@MrHobiecat The only other point here that is actually relevant to what I said was the penultimate one, so I will grant you an answer there. As far as I'm aware there aren't any religions that are *centred on* belief in life after death, but Zoroastrianism is probably the one closest to that. But awareness after death is clearly not central to Taoism, Hinduism, Shinto, Judaism or Buddhism, because they were all practised for some time before anyone came up with such speculations.
@peteface24 You clearly have NO idea what you are talking about,. The one bible verse that most christians feel sums up christianity in one sentance is John 3:16 " ....whosoever believe in (jesus) should not perish, but (will) have EVERLASTING LIFE..." Religion is ALL about what happens to YOU when you die, and they are ALL wrong.
@MrHobiecat You have no idea what *I* am talking about, I didn't mention Christianity! Even so, you're 'most Christians' is Christian Fundamentalists (you generalising again), and you've given no reason for your conclusion that makes all religions based on life after death (something I clearly refuted). I'm happy for you to believe that they are all false, but there is no use you asserting it at religious people as if you have a decisive argument to back it up.
@peteface24 In science the things that are observable, verifiable and testable ARE the presumed default truths. If someone comes along with claims or stories that no one else can observe, repeat, verifiy or test, the burden of proof is on the person making the claims to provide evidence. No God IS the default answer, because there is nothing we can point to and say THAT is a god, or a god is making THAT happen. NOTHING!
@MrHobiecat Obviously you are being very rhetorical, generalising and even demonizing Christians based (not on impartial evidence but) on your own emotional prejudice. Your negative claims about the mindset of religious people based upon their use of Flew's work are a clear example of this. He was happy for them to reference his work, just like an atheist who stood up for abortion rights would be happy for a theist to cite their arguments.
@peteface24 I would submit to you sir,that the offenses of Christianity not only should incur ridicule and verbal demonization,but physical harm to those right wing fundamentalists,who through exclusion have demonized and tortured others through out history because they dared to challenge the faith.I am a deist who believes that atheists not only have a RIGHT to harrass and push back the forces of your delusions,but they have also the obligation to do it through physical violence if neccessary.
@LarsTheHonest Sir, it is not any surprise that researchers have found a link between right wing ideology and mental illness(proven facts) can not be denied, can not even be challenged. So after all. . .you lose.
@LarsTheHonest Rapists and murderers are mentally handicapped, but that doesn't mean we let them get away with their crimes. BAM! Gotchya again. Too bad you're not up to the challenge of defending your mental illness or the crimes you've endorsed through your beliefs.
@imaginativelads Wow. You really got me. Of course all murderers and rapists are mentally ill. I mean, it's not like evolution tells us to forcibly copulate with females and kill rivals for our genes survival! Thank you, mr. imaginativelads! You've brightened my mind.
@imaginativelads I would submit to you that you are an idiotic internet troll, who not only has a distorted sense of morality but who clearly knows nothing about logic nor about the relationship between religion and violence. Yes we should rise up in violent revolution against the right wing cunts who run the world, but that has nothing to do with what religion they claim to adhere to.
one small thing, don't mean to take up too much of anyones time, but eh...... Who Cares??
If he believes in God then that's cool, if he didn't then no surpise there.
2nd thing is what does it mean for our lives now?
Nothing.
So whether you're athiest or theist, stop speculating that the other side corrupted him in some way. It doesn't really matter at all. Any Athiest is permitted to change his/her mind. Any Theist is permitted to change their mind, and it doesn't matter to our lives.
@RenegadeMaster07 You have made the wisest response that I've seen so far. Thank you, and you are very much right that what one believes does not effect nor affect the other person. Great message.
Antony Flew was persuaded that some kind of creator God exists due to the laws of nature. He now sees that universal constants and laws are so finely tuned that life would not be possible if even one of these basic constants were off just a smidgen. He says he is more like a Deist than an adherent to any mainstream religion, just like Thomas Jefferson and Benjamin Franklin, two founding fathers of this so-called "Christian" nation.
bigl240, normally i hate impolite people in these sections so i'm going to resist the urge to say what i want to say and just tell you to shut up and have some bloody respect. as an agnostic i have nothing against atheism but your bitter mocking rambling (the very trait that you mock theism for) is typical of militant dogmatic fundamentalist atheism. stop screaming so religeously against religeon and actually do some research. and if your an atheist what the hell are you watching this video 4?!
In the beginning there was nothing, and nothing happened to nothing, until nothing exploded, and created everything. Then, the nothing that became everything magically rearranged itself for no reason into self-replicating complex life forms, that became intelligent beings that believed in God. Makes perfect sense. LOL.
Christianity is the belief that a cosmic Jewish zombie that is his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in all humanity because a rib-woman was convinced to eat from a magical tree by an infinitely sadistic being disguised as a talking snake with legs.
Yeah, makes perfect sense; like The Big Bang and Evolution do. The latter being the most unprovable "fact" that ever made perfect sense. And where did the super concentrated amount of energy that precipitated the big bang come from? An amount, according to physicists, so minute it couldn't register on the Planck scale. A singularity smaller than a quark that somehow blew up and became all the matter in the known universe. LOL! Who's really writing fairy tales here?
Now you know how you sound. Its common for people to actually know what they dont know. Especially atheists. Your ego actually has you believing that you can know something without actually knowing what it is.
So you abolish the pursuit of an enlightened mind, yet you pursue the enlightenment of the mind of others. A deadly mix. Egotistical anesthesia needed
But evolution is a table. We all know that. And the big bang is the process where fish evolved legs Just fighting fire with fire here.
Recognition that there is a higher intelligence than yours is far less egotistical than believing you're the smartest. Its like believing that you're the fastest runner in the world having never been to the Olympics.
I dont think man can even fathom what the highest point of intelligence is. So everything in the universe has to be according to our level.
Little ants in an ants nest debating over whether space is real. Of course the atheist ants are demanding proof. But its no less real.
when did i ever say that i believe im the smartest?
show me some evidence god exists and ill believe, ive never been against believing, in fact i think id be quite happy to find out that god exists but i see no evidence for it.
I thought the guy below me already commented with an answer...
Because you presupposed that believers were just ego-filled jackasses because they believed they were the product of an all powerful being. Now believers believe no human is perfect at all....so theres no ego in that.
And directly relating to the argument, not everyone says these things.....
thats not what i was referring to. what i was referring to was how is comparing the "gospels" with a folktale no better than believing the earth is flat?
simply because theres a large amount of scholarship evidence that suggests otherwise. You usually don't think Paul Bunyan really lived with a giant ox named Babe.
But even the most critical secular scholars agree on most parts of the Gospels, by most, I mean 50% at the least. Noone just takes them to be bold-faced lies......
DO I really need to lecture here? it's common sense on the scholar part.
But here are the findings: based on how most other historical events are recorded, scholars, whether secular or religious, both agree that a historical method that accepts past figures can also apply to the Gospels and most of the New Testament, SOME of the Old.
The thing here though, is that secular scholars are more likely to leave the conclusions alone or reject the "supernatural" cons and substitute for natural explans
your skepticism amazes really........Habernas, Schlaffer, Arnold, Osborne, Schweitzer, etc......do some research if you want to find the facts.....
It ppl like you who expect every single piece of evidence to come from YouTube. Why don't you research to learn, isn't that how you didn't believe in the first place??
@Ltaxe1 actually I see all modern day atheism as being stuck in the 18th century. Sure, they're not wearing powdered wigs now like they did back then, but it's like all very powerful philosophical attacks upon the exaltation of Reason to godlike status during the past 250 years **never happened**. But, modern atheists usually aren't the sharpest knives in the drawer and wouldn't know how to think philosophically and *genuinely* logically if their lives depended upon it.
Paul Davies: "[There] is for me powerful evidence that there is something going on behind it all…It seems as though somebody has fine-tuned nature’s numbers to make the Universe…The impression of design is overwhelming." Paul Davies is a physicist, cosmologist and astrobiologist working at Arizona State University...
@Ltaxe1 Yeah, I've never thought about it like that but now that you mention it. Exactly, they completely ignore the intelligent actions by the body and take every amazing process your body does for granted. Assume it can all happen by random chance, and that it's all simple processes.
@Stianchez if that's your position then there's no real reason to believe that humans are unique. If you're going to be this ignorant about it, just embroil yourself in the subject, do research, be amazed, appreciate the natural world.
@Bleumange Instead of using personal incredulity how about showing me where I am wrong, I've done research that's the whole reason why I stopped believing in the Evolution theory, the only observable evidence you got is Micro-Evolution and somehow that is suppose to account for everything else.
The sweet irony of this... I actually believed in the theory when I was ignorant...
@Stianchez A theory - by definition - is a thesis that has been and is being constantly proven through research and findings. Thus, you can't "believe" in one. It's practically the same as "believing" in gravity. On the other hand, if in your mind the alternative is something that cannot be recorded through scientific means and are weak minded and depressed enough to consider it, then yes, anything you might encounter is subjective and based on belief.
@Bleumange Of course you can believe in a theory, and the traditional --> Gravity is true but we dont know how it works therefor evolution is true is a very poor way of argueing.
I read your other replies, obviously this will launch into a big scale discussion. If you want to continue we'll have to do this in PM, as limiting ourselves to 500 comments wont do much good.
Fossils dont prove evolution, they contradict evolution. I'll gladly explain why. Let me know if u wanna go on.
@Stianchez Now then. From your comment on evolution I can deduce that you can only see a non-existent process (you call micro evolution, evolution has no subsidiaries and there is no difference between what you call micro and macro) in real time. You think that because it happens at a cellular level, it cannot happen at a larger level. But when you think about that, it makes no sense, as if the cells adopt continuous characteristics, then wouldn't their effect on the organism change as well?
@Stianchez Final point. It seems that your current state of ignorance is based on the assumption that what you call "micro evolution" is only valid because it can be observed in real time, while what you call "macro" has never happened in your lifetime. No shit sherlock. We have fossilized evidence. You're pulling a strawman. Other than that, I NEVER brought up the question of science.
@Stianchez and finally, I never asked you about science. I asked for evidence about your GOD, not why you turned away from evolution. You can't seem to explain that, but spewing strawmans doesn't seem to tire you. Bigot.
He's allready realized the truth. This is not some step.
Theists, particuularly revealed religionists{especially Christians} and Atheists both tend to claim that when converts from one of those two opposing poles in this dualism of theism/revelaed religion/christianity vs atheism[and visa versa} to Deism or Agnosticism that those people are just on a stepping stone to the truth. Both fail to recognize that they have found their truth. Atheisst and theist/revealed religionists/christians CONT...
...are both often blinded by their faith in their ideology and refuse to accept that theer are valid reasons for becoming, beeing, and statying eitjher Agnostic or Deist. Don't hold your breath for Flew to become a born again christian or other revealed religion/theistic fool.
And atheists don't hold your breathe for all great thinkers whom go from theism/revealed religion to Deism or Agnositicism to become "new Atheists", don't hold your breathe for deathbed conversions .
LOL I agree. They get some kind of religous orgams out of thinking a guy is no longer an atheist. The fact is deism is a direct rejection of christanity in itself. Deism is a full and complete rejecton of Jesus as a savior or the world. It views christanity as basically foolish.
pricelessspam said: "You obviously have not been schooled in religious theology and have an overly inflated ,and ignorant opinion" REPLY -- so funny -- What a waste of an education to major in theology. A PHD is myths and fables. At least when on majors in Greek mythology you admit it is fake and a fairy tale. Tehology is a waste of an education on false and misleading b/s. It is shameful that it is even taught in schools.
you may believe there are magic friends in the sky called god and jesus but you can't prove it. you can claim it all you want but it will remain an unproven myth all your life. what you want to be real does not make it so. It is just like the 100's of other faiths and people just like you that claim they are real. each religion has blinded people that refuse to admit the truth to themself to protect thier own version of a little friend in the sky. It is crap.
The statement you made "God is real and so is his son Jesus" is proof of nothing. It is just your opinion. Religious folk believe they have the right to state myth as fact and we are suspose to beleive them. you have no proof and never will. the invisible friend in the sky is myth just like the talkng snake.
Todays fundamentalist christianity is just tomorrows version of what we think of Greek mythology today. People are begining to see it is just like mythology. The sooner the better.
Enlightment doent come from believing in myth. Christainty is burying your head in the sand and ignoring the truth. Enlightment and the bible are two different things, your god is not real. It does not even make sense. you can't prove my statement is wrong. you preach a false god. A phony god. you can keep trying to tell yourself that your god is real and there is acreature named jesus but it's false. It's all as true as the story of the talking snake.
kEEP TELL YOURSELVE THE TRUTH IS NOT THE TRUTH SEE HOW FAR THAT WILL GET YOU.You obviously have not been schooled in religious theology and have an overly inflated ,and ignorant opinion .Read some History books for a change.
pricelessspam - said: kEEP TELL YOURSELVE THE TRUTH IS NOT THE TRUTH SEE HOW FAR THAT WILL GET YOU" REPLY: Its' your magic invisible friend in the sky that is fake. you believe in an creature that if real would be evil and insane. you must fear him and worship him because after all he could change his mind again and dround all of us including unborn children.
pricelessspam said: "not been schooled in religious theology" REPLY: No I didn't go to school to learn how to lie for Jesus. Nothing dulls the brain like theology. A phd is lies and myths. what a joke.
pricelessspam said: Someone who has so many comments without much knowledge should accept it. REPLY: That makes no sense. Accept talking snakes -- great floods -- creation science -- rejection of basic science -- all for a phony little invisible friend in the sky you can't prove
Fundamentalist christians get together in there little churches and tell each other their invisible friend is real and the light. LOL. they sing songs, speak in tongues - lay on of hands and such in an attempt to make a myth real. sort of hypnosis. you want it to be real and get together and have a joint religious orgams in the name of jesus to prove it to each other. All the time ignoring reality and truth. Just keep playing with each others religous clit and have orgams for Jesus.
part II -- He is a god that needs prozac. I wonder if he went to some sort of god psychistrist to get medication after killing everyone with a flood . That is all but the ones that were willing to kiss his ass. He needs worshipped and told he is wonderful. What are we, some sort of fancy ant farm to give him amusement while he jacks off. If real he would be an insane creature. Oh you can't even prove the talking snake verse of the bible much less any other part.
you are quick to use the word truth when talking about things that will never be proven. It is part of the christian brainwashing you get. it's protect the myth by keeping on calling it truth. you can't prove it but that does not matter just tell yourself it's truth long enought and you will believe it. THe sad part is you expect everyone else to ignore reality and want to teach this crap to children. That is child abuse.
It has already been exposed by Mark Oppenheimer, of the New York Times, that the book attributed to Flew (by his own admission) was actually written by Christian apologists Roy Abraham Varghese & Bob Hostetler. In lengthy correspondence with author Richard Carrier (available online), Flew admitted being decieved by one ID advocate (Schrodder), yet refused to look at any evidence to the contrary citing HIS AGE. The uncensored video of his interview shows his condition. They should be ashamed.
Bass if you believe in a myth no amount of reasoning and truth with change you. That is the case with virgin births, resurrection fairy talkes, talking snakes, tower of babble, creationism and the other goat herder myths. You can believe if you wish but don't expect a logical thinking person to buy this crap. It's up you to prove a fairy tale is real. The more unrealiztic, the more proof you need. Christianity has failed to prove this. Faith without proof and evidience is just myth.
Being a deist is not a JOURNY to a religion that belives in talking snakes LOL - Deist is a not christanity or a step toward it. It is however, for many people, a real step AWAY from christ - virgin birth - talking snakes - raising from the dead, prophets and the rest of the crazy myth of the so called revealed text of the bible.
This is no great victory for your mythical character, Christ. It means no more to christ believers than him becomming a Buddist.
Cuffsmaster, since you're so confident that Christianity is a myth, then I STRONGLY suggest you do yourself the courtesy of watching the debate between Gary Habermas and Anthony Flew on the Resurrection of Jesus. You'd be in for a rude awakening, my friend.
Bass if you believe in a myth no amount of reasoning and truth with change you. That is the case with virgin births, resurrection fairy talkes, talking snakes, tower of babble, creationism and the other goat herder myths. You can believe if you wish but don't expect a logical thinking person to buy this crap. It's up you to prove a fairy tale is real. The more unrealiztic, the more proof you need. Christianity has failed to prove this. Faith without proof and evidience is just myth.
"The more unrealiztic, the more proof you need." - If you mean unrealistic as in that which does not necessarily conform by physical laws, then you are greatly misinformed as there are plenty of "unrealistic" things in this universe, which TRANSCEND natural law, that you surely accept with open arms and without proof.
Bass -- If you mean unrealistic as in that which does not necessarily conform by physical laws, then you are greatly misinformed as there are plenty of "unrealistic" things in this universe, which TRANSCEND natural law, that you surely accept with open arms and without proof. REPLY An this is your excuse for talking snakes LOL. It is a false statement anyway much less trying to use it as proof of goat herder tales. LOL so funny how far fundamentalist will reach to cover the crap.
Bass-"If you mean unrealistic as in that which does not necessarily conform by physical laws, then you are greatly misinformed as there are plenty of "unrealistic" things in this universe, which TRANSCEND natural law, that you surely accept with open arms and without proof." REPLY - what crap. If there was the slighted bit of truth to the bible you would not need this kind of beating around the bush argument. you have smoke and mirrors and no proof. Never will have as long as you live.
The truth is Christianity is a lie used to butt fuck the world with. You want it to be true but during this whole conversation you have offered NO proof. Christianity has elaborate and fake church doctrine in an attempt to show it is real but the BOTTOM LINE is that you cant prove the very basic stories in the bible are real. So you have to use smoke and mirrors and try to sidetrack from the truth. You have attempted this here for months.
christians must alway sidestep the very simple questions like. Prove the talking snake? THey hae to sidestep these questions and attempt to change the subject. THey lie for Jesus and sidestep or admit there is no proof. That is the only two options.
It has become a huge part of fundamentislt culture to sidestep and never address the simple questions head on. they know they can[t prove a damn thing there fore must try to cloud the issue with bullshit. Hell they can't even prove the main character _ Jesus - is real. They try to butt fuck the world with a guy they can't really prove lived.
Furthermore Cuff, your position strongly resembles David Hume's argument that whatever is not empirically or scientifically testable must be disregarded as sophistry. The problem with his argument is THAT statement ITSELF is neither empirically or scientifically testable. Your argument is in ITSELF unproven thereby making it unrealistic. Therefore your argument that "The more unrealiztic, the more proof you need" is complete hogwash. Nice try though.
If by "logical conversation", you mean a discussion that is devoid of rationality and completely subject to one's opinions, then yes, I refuse to be involved in one of those. ;)
Bass-- "If by "logical conversation", you mean a discussion that is devoid of rationality and completely subject to one's opinions, then yes, I refuse to be involved in one of those. ;) " REPLY logical and the bible are not the same. Truth and the bible are not the same. Rational and taling snakes LOL. You have the nerve to talk of devoid of rationality and the bible LOL. The one that is devoid of rationality is the one trying to push the bible as fact. But you really know that.
Bass said: "The problem with his argument is THAT statement ITSELF is neither empirically or scientifically testable. Your argument is in ITSELF unproven thereby making it unrealistic." REPLY - yeah it's unreaiistic to think tha stories of talking shakes, the earth is covered with a dome, the earth is flat, casting demons into pigs is horse shit. It is unscienctific to view them as laughable crap. sure more double talking bullshit to hide the fact your little tales are crap.
"Faith without proof and evidience is just myth." - Define faith.
"You can believe if you wish but don't expect a logical thinking person to buy this crap." - Apparently, Anthony Flew bought a lot "crap" from what theists have said, so does that therefore make him illogical? What about Habermas? He was an AGNOSTIC when he wrote a 200 page report on the resurrection. Upon examining the evidence both pro AND con, he concluded that Christianity was the truth and converted. Is he illogical too?
I remember reading Flew and all the press around it and seeing an interview with him. He is not a Christian he's a deist. He did not accept christ. There is a huge differenct in being a deist and believing in creation non-science, talking snakes and virgin births.
I am a deist. Deist don't believe in talking snakes - creation non-science and all the other crap in the bible. Deism is not a step away from atheism in that both old hands in their beliefs about science. Both reject the bible, prophets, raising from the dead, virgin births and all the other foolish crap. Deism is a rejection of theism, you get on jesus christ in it.
Cuff, that's ironic since you accept that God created the universe. That might as well just be hogwash as well, by your logic.
You're saying that talking snakes are ridiculous is actually a strawman. The reason is because you're presupposing that if snakes talked then it MUST be a NATURAL occurance, not a supernatural one. This is clearly false, because by definition, it would have been an act of God. You also beg the question by basically saying it's hogwash because of your deism.
oh yes it might be hogwash that a being started the big bang -- I agree that atheist could be correct and I am wrong. But what I don't accept is that the answer lies in the stupid bible and fairy tales. No I don't think talking snakes are natural. I think they are made up by ignorant people of ancient times and still believed by illogial people today. It is not a matter of supernatural. It is a matter of hogwash.
one can believe that the means of creating the universe was started by a higher being and not beleive in the foolish stories of the bible (revealed text), Prophets, or some silly story of jesus. Deism is not a rejection of science as is fundamentist christanity. Fundamentalist must deny truth- science and logic to make their little revealed text real. Truth does not matter only the no-logic revealed text. That is why teaching it to kids is child abuse
It is laughable for a christian to use the term "strawman" to refer to anyone elses point of view. A straw man argument is an informal fallacy based on misrepresentation. The whole bible is false to begin with. NO truth at all. It's not history but myth. Down deep you know that. but can't allow yourself to admit itl LOL
"The whole bible is false to begin with. NO truth at all. It's not history but myth." - Ah, then it's actually up to you to refute the evidences for the resurrection of Jesus. I'll be glad to give them to you in a private message. Though we'll have to keep the subject in the comment board relevant because the subject of the video was Anthony Flew's convergence from atheism, not the evidence for the resurrection.
Bass-- "Ah, then it's actually up to you to refute the evidences\\" REPLY: The one thing you can count on from a fundamentalist is that they will find some way to squirm out of trying to prove their myth because they know they can't . They will alway try to make you prove thee was no talking snake when in fact they KNOW it is their duty to prove there was one if they expect you to believe that crap. They know they are belieng is crap and have to use smoke and mirrors to keep it going.
Bass - "I'll be glad to give them to you in a private message. Though we'll have to keep the subject in the comment board relevant because the subject of the video was Anthony Flew's convergence from atheism, not the evidence for the resurrection" REPLY: Why in the world would I want to exchange private emails about unproven myths and stupid believes in a being that is not real.
"Why in the world would I want to exchange private emails about unproven myths and stupid believes in a being that is not real." - This is begging the question Cuff. You presuppose that the Christian God is false before you even allow the Christian to give evidence for his beliefs. Haha, first you say that I need to provide evidence and then you turn around and disregard the opportunity to even see such evidence before it is offered. That's how I know that you're not being honest with yourself.
Bass said: "You presuppose that the Christian God is false before you even allow the Christian to give evidence for his beliefs" REPLY -- you presuppose I haven't heard the stupid christian crap all my live LOL. The crap you would spread is the same false crap spread forever.. you claim christians give evident of his belief. That's a lie for Jesus.. you give myth that is unproven and unprovable and calm it's evidence. you're not being honest or truthful. Shame on you. show proof.
Bess-- "fyou say that I need to provide evidence and then you disregard the opportunity to see evidence before it is offered. " REPLY Show evidence all readers, prove the fucking talking snake. Don't change the subject -- show it here. Here's your change to tstick jesus up the ass of many -- Prove the talking snake. Don't give me the phone side stepping proofs christians try to spout. If the bible is real -- prove it. Not the horseshit christians offer as sidestepping proof.
"Prove the talking snake." "If the bible is real -- prove it." - Haha! Since when is a talking snake the entirety of the Bible. Don't project side-stepping on me, my friend.
Bass said: "If the bible is real -- prove it." - Haha! Since when is a talking snake the entirety of the Bible. Don't project side-stepping on me, my friend." REPLY -- so you can't prove it and want to sidestep it LOL.
Bass- "That's how I know that you're not being honest with yourself" REPLY: some guy claiming that talking snakes, the great flood, Jews fleeing Egypt, parting of waters and creations has the nerve to proclaim that others are not being honest with himself. That is soo fucking funny. A christian trick. I bet the Greeks that believed in Zeus, Hermes, Dionysus and Apollo said the same bullshit to defend their gods. LOL The stories are no different or less believible.
"I bet the Greeks that believed in Zeus, Hermes, Dionysus and Apollo said the same bullshit to defend their gods." - Haha, Cuff this is all you had to do from the beginning, just show how Christianity is not true compare to other religions. That's all you had to do, Cuff. You're saying that one of the reasons as to why the Bible can't be true is because Christianity allegedly copied from pre-existing religions. Is that one of your reasons?
Bass said: "That's all you had to do, Cuff. You're saying that one of the reasons as to why the Bible can't be true is because Christianity allegedly copied from pre-existing religions. Is that one of your reasons?" REPLY - Re read what I said. not need to retype
bass said: "Cuff. You're saying that one of the reasons as to why the Bible can't be true is because Christianity allegedly copied from pre-existing religions. Is that one of your reasons? " REPLY NO, not at all. I could care less where they got the myths from. I am saying your logic for proving the talking snake, flood, towr of babble, can also be used to prove Zeus. Bullshit is bullship no matter what religion you attach it to.
"I am saying your logic for proving the talking snake, flood, towr of babble, can also be used to prove Zeus." - The foundation of Christian beliefs is the resurrection of Jesus, not the other things you've mentioned. What you're telling me is that if I don't prove one event that is stated in the Bible then the entire Bible is not true, and that's fallacious. I honestly thought you knew that.
Bass said: The foundation of Christian beliefs is the resurrection of Jesus, not the other things you've mentioned. What you're telling me is that if I don't prove one event that is stated in the Bible then the entire Bible is not true, and that's fallacious. I honestly thought you knew that. REPLY: All that sound good I see the agree the bible is full of myths and unproven crap passed as truth. I am glad we agree. Now you say it does not matter.
Bass said: "What you're telling me is that if I don't prove one event that is stated in the Bible then the entire Bible is not true, and that's fallacious. I honestly thought you knew that. " REPLY: so all these ridiculous myths suddenly become true when speaking of Jesus and the virgin birth and resurrection. A book filled with myths suddenly becomes truth LOL sure. Prove his virgin birth. prove he cast out sickness and evil spirits into pigs LOL It's horse shit.
Bass - The foundation of Christian beliefs is the resurrection of Jesus, REPLY -- the truth is the foundations of christanity is based in the fables of the bible that are drilled into children. (child abuse). THe crap in the old test. helps them believe the crap in the new testoment. Claiming it is founded on the resurrection myth is smoke and mirrors as well. It is an attempt to get off the hook for the rest of the bible bullshit taught in chruch every day. Double talk
Bass said: "I am saying your logic for proving the talking snake, flood, towr of babble, can also be used to prove Zeus." - The foundation of Christian beliefs is the resurrection of Jesus, REPLY : much of the same horse shit used in claiming that there was a god named Jesus in not much different that what the Greeks used to prove Zeus and his kids. Again Jesus and the mircles = virgin birth and all the other crap are unproven. Hell he didn't even know what caused sickness (demons) lol
Bass said: foundation of Christian beliefs is the resurrection of Jesus, not the other you've mentions REPLY so you admit the resurrection of Christ is true for sure but you're willing to admit the rest of the bible is horseshit. It all smells like horseshit to me. NO logic. None of it. It's all unproven fairly tale. Oh you want it to be true and will blind yourself and ignore truth to make it so but the bottom line is that it is crap. unproven crap
"you claim christians give evident of his belief. That's a lie for Jesus." - Try me. Give me an example of evidence that Christians use that is not evidence at all.
Bass said: -Try me. Give me an example of evidence that Christians use that is not evidence at all. REPLY Laughable -- re-read post -- supernatural crap.
Bass said: Try me. Give me an example of evidence that Christians use that is not evidence at all. REPLY - you have been writting smoke and mirros for months here. NO evidence to disprove the myth of the bible.
Bass said: "You presuppose that the Christian God is false before you even allow the Christian to give evidence for his beliefs: REPLY -- Oh Gee -- I'm suspose to beleive it's real first -- ah I get it. How nice for you because that means you'd never have to prove the talking snakes, great flood, creation science, or casting of demons into pigs. LOL That goes back to the bullshit they teach about faith. Faith not fact LOL. But that else can they say with your pushing bullshit as truth.
Bass - said: "keep the subject -on-the subject of the video -convergence from atheism -, not the evidence for the resurrection." REPLY Oh I;m sure you'd like to get away from the subject of tne bible being false and no evidence will ever exist to prove a word of it. you'd like to keep your head burried in the sand and not be presented with the task of actually proving it is not a lie created by man. TO bad you have got away with the lie to long as it is. where's the proof.
If you want people to believe in your little invisible friend in the sky then it is your place to prove it. After all christians beleive they have the duty to spread the word -- well prove it don't just tell the phony story of the talkng snake - prove itl Christians are the ones wanting to butt fuck the world with their faith. Prove it's real so it will be an enjoyalbe fuck LOL.
The bible makes claims that are not realistic. If a christian want someone else to beleve they not to show it is real. PERIOD. If you are talking about talking snakes, great floods, virgin births then it is certainly not the person the uses logics duty to disprove. It is the one pushing such stupid stories to prove them. hell you can't even prove Jesus had a virgin birth. The whole story is a lie if not proven. This is not a court of law, it is common sense.
Bass "You also beg the question by basically saying it's hogwash because of your deism" REPLY LOL - the bible would be hogwash no matter my religion. That has nothing to do with it being ilogical. it is the crap that is IN it that is false.
"the bible would be hogwash no matter my religion." - Ah, but no it wouldn't. This is an argument from ignorance as to how many other religions accept the Bible's validity: Judaisim, Islam, some branches of Hinduism, Baha'ism, etc. No offense, but you have to actually make an effort to SUBSTANTIATE your claims that Christians reject logic and science.
Bass said: "you have to actually make an effort to SUBSTANTIATE your claims that Christians reject logic and science." REPLY -- 1) talking snakes 2) casting demons into pigs 3) virgin birth 4) jumping out of the grave LOL --
Bass -- "supernatural" REPLY - Supernatural would be if you could PROVE a snake talked. The acts would most likely be supernatural. BUT it didn't happen and you can't prove it did. it is a story by goat herders. A false story and not supernatural. If is fake.
"Supernatural would be if you could PROVE a snake talked." - Cuff, you're missing the point. You're playing a double standard game here. You accept that a deity created the universe, yet you do not rub THAT off as hogwash just you would anything else that would be supernatural. You'd probably argue that anything else that is supernatural is not proven, but if that is the case, then logically you would have to apply the same answer to the supernatural origin of the universe. Why don't you?
Bass trying to still get out of proving the bible said: "Cuff, you're missing the point. You're playing a double standard game here. You accept that a deity created the universe, yet you do not rub THAT off as hogwash just you would anything else that would be supernatural" REPLY --- only double talk -- no proof because none exist. I admit my faith may be wrong and the atheist may be right but I know the answer is not in the lie and butt fucking of someone pushing a false Jesus.
bass -- supernatural REPLY : the sad proof is that using the word supernatural as proof is smoke and mirrors for you can't even prove the event happed you claim is supernatual. For you have to have a proven event to claim it is supernatural. The bottow line is that it is just another attempt to butt fuck the world with lies. the simple questios is always unanswered -- Prove it? smoke and mirros can't change the fact you will never be able to answer the simple question.
Christianity is the one to beat - brilliant!
tracyjane221 4 months ago
God is light of LIFE and our way in our lives is to find it truth...
MrKlemenko 5 months ago
There is a God.
fashklash 8 months ago 25
@fashklash You're an idiot.
Bleumange 3 months ago
@Bleumange ad hominem attacks don't make your position any more rational.
tomdenman 3 months ago
@tomdenman I couldn't find a better alternative. Your first comment is basically an ad hominem non-sequitur, essentially forcing every weak willed person out there to be obliged to feel a non-existent sense of guilt because you decided that defending an indefensible position which you're only justifying with special pleading while shoving your factless bullshit down our throats was the moral thing to do. Well done, sir.
Bleumange 3 months ago
@Bleumange *sigh* You do realise that WAS my first comment, right? >_> Also, the fact that your describing theists postion as "factless bullshit" is in itself an ignorant and "indefensible" statement which you can't back up without simply stating baseless assertions. Well done sir.
tomdenman 3 months ago
@tomdenman Yes, I was describing your first statement. Nothing i said would apply to your second. I don't understand your position. I can freely criticise claims that enforce a certain dogma upon a demographic, but which are not based on facts, simply crossed-arms special pleading. Stop shifting the burden of proof. If you're trolling, your logic doesnt follow.
Bleumange 3 months ago
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Paul Davies: "[There] is for me powerful evidence that there is something going on behind it all…It seems as though somebody has fine-tuned nature’s numbers to make the Universe…The impression of design is overwhelming." Paul Davies is a physicist, cosmologist and astrobiologist working at Arizona State University...
ledvonj 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Paul Davies: "[There] is for me powerful evidence that there is something going on behind it all…It seems as though somebody has fine-tuned nature’s numbers to make the Universe…The impression of design is overwhelming." Paul Davies is a physicist, cosmologist and astrobiologist working at Arizona State University...
ledvonj 1 year ago
Yep, that certainly was a tool talking.
rhettboy 1 year ago
It matters a lot than *he* changed his mind because he was one of the most qualified scholars of philosophy of religion in the world. This shows that belief in God is not just an emotional bias.
peteface24 1 year ago
@peteface24 Altzheimers is a disease that takes several years to claim you life. Flew died TWO YEARS after his so-called conversion to belief in god, which means he was already in the ADVANCED STAGES of his brain literally turning into mush. This shows that belief in god, inspite of the overwhelming evidence that NO god-stories are true, is most common amoung people with REDUCED mental faculties. The fact that christians are exploiting his mental illness to support their delusion is pathetic!
MrHobiecat 1 year ago
@MrHobiecat Your line of reasoning is pathetic for several reasons (NB Prof. Flew passed away six years after aligning himself with Deism, not two). The most important reason is that although his mental condition was in deterioration at that time (as are the conditions of all of us over 20 years-old) there's plenty of evidence that he was sufficiently sane to grapple with the philosophical issues. I live in Reading where he spent the last years of his life.
peteface24 1 year ago
@MrHobiecat (cont.) I met him, ate with him, and heard him talk. I can assure you that three years ago he was sane and able to discuss the philosophical issues surrounding his change of position with clarity and intelligence, albeit slowly and with some shortness of breath. Now, if you choose not to believe me, if refer you to the large number of things he wrote (including the book) and the recordings of him speaking in those last six years.
peteface24 1 year ago
@MrHobiecat (cont.) I found his understanding of the subject to be greater than many people in the prime of their lives. // Less important points are that although he had Altzheimers it doesn't follow that his death was caused by that disease having done as much damage as it possibly could, so that is far from proving his philosophical capacities were severely compromised in the relevant period.
peteface24 1 year ago
@MrHobiecat (cont.) And that if you're attributing religion to low intelligence, it doesn't help to base your case on the 'fact' that God-stories are all false, because that's an obvious presupposition of the truth of atheism, and consequently, very unintelligent.
peteface24 1 year ago
@peteface24 Altzheimers eats away the brain of the patient, literally creating holes that look like swiss cheese. The illness is always fatal. Depending on which parts of the brain are affected the person loses their mental capacities first, and later the brain is no longer able to command simple body funtions like swallowing and breathing. The fact that you think a highly intelligent man would not be affected by this illness, anymore than anyone else 'over 20' is obscenely ignorant.
MrHobiecat 1 year ago
@peteface24 The fact that the god storys are false is not a presumption. Based on our best understanding of the nature of the univese and the nature of human life, there is NO aspect of our awareness and consciousness that exists while our brain cells are inactive, either from deep sleep, being sedated, or from injury. If you have no awareness without brain cell activity, you do NOT HAVE a soul that is independant of your physical body. The medical evidence for this is indisputable....
MrHobiecat 1 year ago
@MrHobiecat ....therefore ALL religious claims that "YOU" will experience ANYTHING after your body dies are false. When you die, you cease to exist. Fit that into any religion and see what you end up with?
MrHobiecat 1 year ago
@peteface24 One more point on dementia, people with this illness lose their memory in specific areas of their lives. A person may be able to sit with an older sibling and remember many details of their childhood, but they will not recognize their own SPOUSE AND CHILDREN, because the parts of their brain with the memory of their later years is gone. Your understanding of altzheimers is underwhelming. The fact that a patient can sit and carry on a conversation does not mean their mind is OK.
MrHobiecat 1 year ago
@MrHobiecat Actually sir I know something about Altzheimers seeing as I watched my grandfather suffer from it over ten years and I spent some time looking after him. He never in his life knew who I was. Of course people with Altzheimers are deteriorating more rapidly than everyone else, I didn't say they weren't. This of course is irrelevant since as I already proved, Flew was competent when he accepted Deism since he clearly had enough focus to discuss those issues in depth.
peteface24 1 year ago
@peteface24 The irony here is that scientist dont 'believe' things because another intelligent person believes then. Science is based on reason, logic, observable data and conclusions that produce usefull applications. Even if Flew's mind was not turning into swiss cheese, the fact that he changed his beliefs does not change the reality of the universe. Religion is based on emotion, not on reality. In order to embrace religion you must REJECT reality, so his so called 'conversion' doesnt matter.
MrHobiecat 1 year ago
@peteface24 The fact that christian evangelists jumped on Flew's change of beliefs, and use them to promote THEIR beliefs, even though his ideas have NOTHING to do with christianity, speaks volumes on the mindset of religious people. It doesnt matter who agrees with you or doesnt, the facts stand alone, and christianity is not EVEN wrong, its totally absurd.
MrHobiecat 1 year ago
@MrHobiecat Second, I can't see what life after death has to do with anything. It *is* a presupposition that atheism is true if you think that *all* such 'stories' must be false. I would agree that there is very little evidence for most cases and in some cases alternative explanations which are compelling, but no amount of evidence will prove that they're all false, and indeed that is not a question that science can test.
peteface24 1 year ago
@peteface24 Name one religion that is not centered on the question of what happenes to your awareness after your body dies?
MrHobiecat 1 year ago
@MrHobiecat The only other point here that is actually relevant to what I said was the penultimate one, so I will grant you an answer there. As far as I'm aware there aren't any religions that are *centred on* belief in life after death, but Zoroastrianism is probably the one closest to that. But awareness after death is clearly not central to Taoism, Hinduism, Shinto, Judaism or Buddhism, because they were all practised for some time before anyone came up with such speculations.
peteface24 1 year ago
@peteface24 You clearly have NO idea what you are talking about,. The one bible verse that most christians feel sums up christianity in one sentance is John 3:16 " ....whosoever believe in (jesus) should not perish, but (will) have EVERLASTING LIFE..." Religion is ALL about what happens to YOU when you die, and they are ALL wrong.
MrHobiecat 1 year ago
@MrHobiecat You have no idea what *I* am talking about, I didn't mention Christianity! Even so, you're 'most Christians' is Christian Fundamentalists (you generalising again), and you've given no reason for your conclusion that makes all religions based on life after death (something I clearly refuted). I'm happy for you to believe that they are all false, but there is no use you asserting it at religious people as if you have a decisive argument to back it up.
peteface24 1 year ago
@peteface24 In science the things that are observable, verifiable and testable ARE the presumed default truths. If someone comes along with claims or stories that no one else can observe, repeat, verifiy or test, the burden of proof is on the person making the claims to provide evidence. No God IS the default answer, because there is nothing we can point to and say THAT is a god, or a god is making THAT happen. NOTHING!
MrHobiecat 1 year ago
@MrHobiecat Obviously you are being very rhetorical, generalising and even demonizing Christians based (not on impartial evidence but) on your own emotional prejudice. Your negative claims about the mindset of religious people based upon their use of Flew's work are a clear example of this. He was happy for them to reference his work, just like an atheist who stood up for abortion rights would be happy for a theist to cite their arguments.
peteface24 1 year ago
@peteface24 I would submit to you sir,that the offenses of Christianity not only should incur ridicule and verbal demonization,but physical harm to those right wing fundamentalists,who through exclusion have demonized and tortured others through out history because they dared to challenge the faith.I am a deist who believes that atheists not only have a RIGHT to harrass and push back the forces of your delusions,but they have also the obligation to do it through physical violence if neccessary.
imaginativelads 8 months ago
@imaginativelads Look up Mental Health, call them. You need help.
LarsTheHonest 8 months ago
@LarsTheHonest Sir, it is not any surprise that researchers have found a link between right wing ideology and mental illness(proven facts) can not be denied, can not even be challenged. So after all. . .you lose.
imaginativelads 8 months ago
@imaginativelads So you want to physically harm the mentally handicapped?
LarsTheHonest 8 months ago
@LarsTheHonest Rapists and murderers are mentally handicapped, but that doesn't mean we let them get away with their crimes. BAM! Gotchya again. Too bad you're not up to the challenge of defending your mental illness or the crimes you've endorsed through your beliefs.
imaginativelads 8 months ago
@imaginativelads Wow. You really got me. Of course all murderers and rapists are mentally ill. I mean, it's not like evolution tells us to forcibly copulate with females and kill rivals for our genes survival! Thank you, mr. imaginativelads! You've brightened my mind.
LarsTheHonest 8 months ago
@LarsTheHonest Someone had to illuminate your ignorance with the light of reason.
imaginativelads 8 months ago
@imaginativelads I sincerely hope that you saw the sarcasm in that comment.
LarsTheHonest 8 months ago
@imaginativelads I would submit to you that you are an idiotic internet troll, who not only has a distorted sense of morality but who clearly knows nothing about logic nor about the relationship between religion and violence. Yes we should rise up in violent revolution against the right wing cunts who run the world, but that has nothing to do with what religion they claim to adhere to.
peteface24 8 months ago
Comment removed
MrHobiecat 1 year ago
one small thing, don't mean to take up too much of anyones time, but eh...... Who Cares??
If he believes in God then that's cool, if he didn't then no surpise there.
2nd thing is what does it mean for our lives now?
Nothing.
So whether you're athiest or theist, stop speculating that the other side corrupted him in some way. It doesn't really matter at all. Any Athiest is permitted to change his/her mind. Any Theist is permitted to change their mind, and it doesn't matter to our lives.
RenegadeMaster07 1 year ago
@RenegadeMaster07 You have made the wisest response that I've seen so far. Thank you, and you are very much right that what one believes does not effect nor affect the other person. Great message.
songwriter4artists 1 year ago
47 seconds of nothing.
faithisfiction 1 year ago
I've given the power to mind control this pound per pound atheist boxer.
robotsky8 1 year ago
antony flew went senile...
lukeism2 1 year ago
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@lukeism2 " antony flew went senile... "
and they tripped over themselves jumping onto him...
Just sad really.
Roper122 1 year ago
What a state: Gary Habermas speaking for what Antony Flew believes....
GetMeThere1 1 year ago
Antony Flew was persuaded that some kind of creator God exists due to the laws of nature. He now sees that universal constants and laws are so finely tuned that life would not be possible if even one of these basic constants were off just a smidgen. He says he is more like a Deist than an adherent to any mainstream religion, just like Thomas Jefferson and Benjamin Franklin, two founding fathers of this so-called "Christian" nation.
AlShaddai 2 years ago
I heard he just mentally declined because his views of atheism are like mood swings......
But then again, he could be consciously agreeing his own viewpoints
AceofDlamonds 2 years ago
bigl240, normally i hate impolite people in these sections so i'm going to resist the urge to say what i want to say and just tell you to shut up and have some bloody respect. as an agnostic i have nothing against atheism but your bitter mocking rambling (the very trait that you mock theism for) is typical of militant dogmatic fundamentalist atheism. stop screaming so religeously against religeon and actually do some research. and if your an atheist what the hell are you watching this video 4?!
trainattack 2 years ago
if you wanted me to see this comment it would help if you actually made it a reply to me.
bigl240 2 years ago
@bigl240 apologies, religeous debates aside, am hopeless at using internet and have very little youtube experience lol
trainattack 2 years ago
In the beginning there was nothing, and nothing happened to nothing, until nothing exploded, and created everything. Then, the nothing that became everything magically rearranged itself for no reason into self-replicating complex life forms, that became intelligent beings that believed in God. Makes perfect sense. LOL.
POWNAGE27 2 years ago
Christianity is the belief that a cosmic Jewish zombie that is his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in all humanity because a rib-woman was convinced to eat from a magical tree by an infinitely sadistic being disguised as a talking snake with legs.
bigl240 2 years ago
And evolution is a table
thehalfvolley 2 years ago
what
bigl240 2 years ago
Yeah, makes perfect sense; like The Big Bang and Evolution do. The latter being the most unprovable "fact" that ever made perfect sense. And where did the super concentrated amount of energy that precipitated the big bang come from? An amount, according to physicists, so minute it couldn't register on the Planck scale. A singularity smaller than a quark that somehow blew up and became all the matter in the known universe. LOL! Who's really writing fairy tales here?
murdstyx 2 years ago
whats that got to do with anything. you the one who believes in fairytales equivilent to jack and the beanstalk.
bigl240 2 years ago
Now you know how you sound. Its common for people to actually know what they dont know. Especially atheists. Your ego actually has you believing that you can know something without actually knowing what it is.
So you abolish the pursuit of an enlightened mind, yet you pursue the enlightenment of the mind of others. A deadly mix. Egotistical anesthesia needed
But evolution is a table. We all know that. And the big bang is the process where fish evolved legs Just fighting fire with fire here.
thehalfvolley 2 years ago
i always find it funny how you people call atheists egotistical when your the ones who believe were created by an all powerful perfect being rofl.
bigl240 2 years ago
Recognition that there is a higher intelligence than yours is far less egotistical than believing you're the smartest. Its like believing that you're the fastest runner in the world having never been to the Olympics.
I dont think man can even fathom what the highest point of intelligence is. So everything in the universe has to be according to our level.
Little ants in an ants nest debating over whether space is real. Of course the atheist ants are demanding proof. But its no less real.
thehalfvolley 2 years ago
when did i ever say that i believe im the smartest?
show me some evidence god exists and ill believe, ive never been against believing, in fact i think id be quite happy to find out that god exists but i see no evidence for it.
bigl240 2 years ago
ok your ego is just jack......
if your going to compare the Gospels with a folk tale than you are no better than those who believe the Earth is flat.
AceofDlamonds 2 years ago
and hows that exactly?
bigl240 2 years ago
@bigl240
I thought the guy below me already commented with an answer...
Because you presupposed that believers were just ego-filled jackasses because they believed they were the product of an all powerful being. Now believers believe no human is perfect at all....so theres no ego in that.
And directly relating to the argument, not everyone says these things.....
AceofDlamonds 2 years ago
thats not what i was referring to. what i was referring to was how is comparing the "gospels" with a folktale no better than believing the earth is flat?
bigl240 2 years ago
@bigl240
simply because theres a large amount of scholarship evidence that suggests otherwise. You usually don't think Paul Bunyan really lived with a giant ox named Babe.
But even the most critical secular scholars agree on most parts of the Gospels, by most, I mean 50% at the least. Noone just takes them to be bold-faced lies......
AceofDlamonds 2 years ago
what scholars and what do you mean "agree on most parts of the gospels".
bigl240 2 years ago
DO I really need to lecture here? it's common sense on the scholar part.
But here are the findings: based on how most other historical events are recorded, scholars, whether secular or religious, both agree that a historical method that accepts past figures can also apply to the Gospels and most of the New Testament, SOME of the Old.
The thing here though, is that secular scholars are more likely to leave the conclusions alone or reject the "supernatural" cons and substitute for natural explans
AceofDlamonds 2 years ago
is that so, can you name me any of these scholars?
bigl240 2 years ago
your skepticism amazes really........Habernas, Schlaffer, Arnold, Osborne, Schweitzer, etc......do some research if you want to find the facts.....
It ppl like you who expect every single piece of evidence to come from YouTube. Why don't you research to learn, isn't that how you didn't believe in the first place??
AceofDlamonds 2 years ago
what? it amazes you that i dont believe magic? wtf
bigl240 2 years ago
@bigl240 what amazes me is atheists 1960s knowledge about physics and biology and they talk like what they are saying is current
Ltaxe1 1 year ago 5
@Ltaxe1 what exactly do they say that isnt current.
bigl240 1 year ago
@Ltaxe1 And what discoveries since the 60's would alter the arguements? Please be precise.
gamesbok 1 year ago
@Ltaxe1 actually I see all modern day atheism as being stuck in the 18th century. Sure, they're not wearing powdered wigs now like they did back then, but it's like all very powerful philosophical attacks upon the exaltation of Reason to godlike status during the past 250 years **never happened**. But, modern atheists usually aren't the sharpest knives in the drawer and wouldn't know how to think philosophically and *genuinely* logically if their lives depended upon it.
EastofForever 1 year ago
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@Ltaxe1
Paul Davies: "[There] is for me powerful evidence that there is something going on behind it all…It seems as though somebody has fine-tuned nature’s numbers to make the Universe…The impression of design is overwhelming." Paul Davies is a physicist, cosmologist and astrobiologist working at Arizona State University...
ledvonj 1 year ago
@Ltaxe1 Yeah, I've never thought about it like that but now that you mention it. Exactly, they completely ignore the intelligent actions by the body and take every amazing process your body does for granted. Assume it can all happen by random chance, and that it's all simple processes.
Quite frustrating if you ask me.
Stianchez 6 months ago
@Stianchez if that's your position then there's no real reason to believe that humans are unique. If you're going to be this ignorant about it, just embroil yourself in the subject, do research, be amazed, appreciate the natural world.
Bleumange 3 months ago
@Bleumange Instead of using personal incredulity how about showing me where I am wrong, I've done research that's the whole reason why I stopped believing in the Evolution theory, the only observable evidence you got is Micro-Evolution and somehow that is suppose to account for everything else.
The sweet irony of this... I actually believed in the theory when I was ignorant...
Stianchez 3 months ago
@Stianchez A theory - by definition - is a thesis that has been and is being constantly proven through research and findings. Thus, you can't "believe" in one. It's practically the same as "believing" in gravity. On the other hand, if in your mind the alternative is something that cannot be recorded through scientific means and are weak minded and depressed enough to consider it, then yes, anything you might encounter is subjective and based on belief.
Bleumange 3 months ago
@Bleumange Of course you can believe in a theory, and the traditional --> Gravity is true but we dont know how it works therefor evolution is true is a very poor way of argueing.
I read your other replies, obviously this will launch into a big scale discussion. If you want to continue we'll have to do this in PM, as limiting ourselves to 500 comments wont do much good.
Fossils dont prove evolution, they contradict evolution. I'll gladly explain why. Let me know if u wanna go on.
Stianchez 3 months ago
@Stianchez Now then. From your comment on evolution I can deduce that you can only see a non-existent process (you call micro evolution, evolution has no subsidiaries and there is no difference between what you call micro and macro) in real time. You think that because it happens at a cellular level, it cannot happen at a larger level. But when you think about that, it makes no sense, as if the cells adopt continuous characteristics, then wouldn't their effect on the organism change as well?
Bleumange 3 months ago
@Stianchez Final point. It seems that your current state of ignorance is based on the assumption that what you call "micro evolution" is only valid because it can be observed in real time, while what you call "macro" has never happened in your lifetime. No shit sherlock. We have fossilized evidence. You're pulling a strawman. Other than that, I NEVER brought up the question of science.
Bleumange 3 months ago
@Stianchez and finally, I never asked you about science. I asked for evidence about your GOD, not why you turned away from evolution. You can't seem to explain that, but spewing strawmans doesn't seem to tire you. Bigot.
Bleumange 3 months ago
flew's one step closer to realising the truth!!!
diuryl 2 years ago
He's allready realized the truth. This is not some step.
Theists, particuularly revealed religionists{especially Christians} and Atheists both tend to claim that when converts from one of those two opposing poles in this dualism of theism/revelaed religion/christianity vs atheism[and visa versa} to Deism or Agnosticism that those people are just on a stepping stone to the truth. Both fail to recognize that they have found their truth. Atheisst and theist/revealed religionists/christians CONT...
Iconoclastithon 2 years ago
...CONT;
...are both often blinded by their faith in their ideology and refuse to accept that theer are valid reasons for becoming, beeing, and statying eitjher Agnostic or Deist. Don't hold your breath for Flew to become a born again christian or other revealed religion/theistic fool.
And atheists don't hold your breathe for all great thinkers whom go from theism/revealed religion to Deism or Agnositicism to become "new Atheists", don't hold your breathe for deathbed conversions .
Iconoclastithon 2 years ago
LOL I agree. They get some kind of religous orgams out of thinking a guy is no longer an atheist. The fact is deism is a direct rejection of christanity in itself. Deism is a full and complete rejecton of Jesus as a savior or the world. It views christanity as basically foolish.
Cuffsmaster 3 years ago
pricelessspam said: "You obviously have not been schooled in religious theology and have an overly inflated ,and ignorant opinion" REPLY -- so funny -- What a waste of an education to major in theology. A PHD is myths and fables. At least when on majors in Greek mythology you admit it is fake and a fairy tale. Tehology is a waste of an education on false and misleading b/s. It is shameful that it is even taught in schools.
Cuffsmaster 3 years ago
God is real,and so is his son JESUS!
pricelesspam 3 years ago
you may believe there are magic friends in the sky called god and jesus but you can't prove it. you can claim it all you want but it will remain an unproven myth all your life. what you want to be real does not make it so. It is just like the 100's of other faiths and people just like you that claim they are real. each religion has blinded people that refuse to admit the truth to themself to protect thier own version of a little friend in the sky. It is crap.
Cuffsmaster 3 years ago
The statement you made "God is real and so is his son Jesus" is proof of nothing. It is just your opinion. Religious folk believe they have the right to state myth as fact and we are suspose to beleive them. you have no proof and never will. the invisible friend in the sky is myth just like the talkng snake.
Cuffsmaster 3 years ago
Todays fundamentalist christianity is just tomorrows version of what we think of Greek mythology today. People are begining to see it is just like mythology. The sooner the better.
Cuffsmaster 3 years ago
If you are an atheist which seems to be the case maybe God will someday enlighhten you.God is real and so is what Jesus did.TRUTH.
pricelesspam 3 years ago
Enlightment doent come from believing in myth. Christainty is burying your head in the sand and ignoring the truth. Enlightment and the bible are two different things, your god is not real. It does not even make sense. you can't prove my statement is wrong. you preach a false god. A phony god. you can keep trying to tell yourself that your god is real and there is acreature named jesus but it's false. It's all as true as the story of the talking snake.
Cuffsmaster 3 years ago
kEEP TELL YOURSELVE THE TRUTH IS NOT THE TRUTH SEE HOW FAR THAT WILL GET YOU.You obviously have not been schooled in religious theology and have an overly inflated ,and ignorant opinion .Read some History books for a change.
pricelesspam 3 years ago
pricelessspam - said: kEEP TELL YOURSELVE THE TRUTH IS NOT THE TRUTH SEE HOW FAR THAT WILL GET YOU" REPLY: Its' your magic invisible friend in the sky that is fake. you believe in an creature that if real would be evil and insane. you must fear him and worship him because after all he could change his mind again and dround all of us including unborn children.
Cuffsmaster 3 years ago
pricelessspam said: "not been schooled in religious theology" REPLY: No I didn't go to school to learn how to lie for Jesus. Nothing dulls the brain like theology. A phd is lies and myths. what a joke.
Cuffsmaster 3 years ago
Someone who has so many comments without much knowledge should accept it.
pricelesspam 3 years ago
pricelessspam said: Someone who has so many comments without much knowledge should accept it. REPLY: That makes no sense. Accept talking snakes -- great floods -- creation science -- rejection of basic science -- all for a phony little invisible friend in the sky you can't prove
Cuffsmaster 3 years ago
Fundamentalist christians get together in there little churches and tell each other their invisible friend is real and the light. LOL. they sing songs, speak in tongues - lay on of hands and such in an attempt to make a myth real. sort of hypnosis. you want it to be real and get together and have a joint religious orgams in the name of jesus to prove it to each other. All the time ignoring reality and truth. Just keep playing with each others religous clit and have orgams for Jesus.
Cuffsmaster 3 years ago
part II -- He is a god that needs prozac. I wonder if he went to some sort of god psychistrist to get medication after killing everyone with a flood . That is all but the ones that were willing to kiss his ass. He needs worshipped and told he is wonderful. What are we, some sort of fancy ant farm to give him amusement while he jacks off. If real he would be an insane creature. Oh you can't even prove the talking snake verse of the bible much less any other part.
Cuffsmaster 3 years ago
you are quick to use the word truth when talking about things that will never be proven. It is part of the christian brainwashing you get. it's protect the myth by keeping on calling it truth. you can't prove it but that does not matter just tell yourself it's truth long enought and you will believe it. THe sad part is you expect everyone else to ignore reality and want to teach this crap to children. That is child abuse.
Cuffsmaster 3 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
It has already been exposed by Mark Oppenheimer, of the New York Times, that the book attributed to Flew (by his own admission) was actually written by Christian apologists Roy Abraham Varghese & Bob Hostetler. In lengthy correspondence with author Richard Carrier (available online), Flew admitted being decieved by one ID advocate (Schrodder), yet refused to look at any evidence to the contrary citing HIS AGE. The uncensored video of his interview shows his condition. They should be ashamed.
YOURINQUIRER 3 years ago
Bass if you believe in a myth no amount of reasoning and truth with change you. That is the case with virgin births, resurrection fairy talkes, talking snakes, tower of babble, creationism and the other goat herder myths. You can believe if you wish but don't expect a logical thinking person to buy this crap. It's up you to prove a fairy tale is real. The more unrealiztic, the more proof you need. Christianity has failed to prove this. Faith without proof and evidience is just myth.
Cuffsmaster 3 years ago
Being a deist is not a JOURNY to a religion that belives in talking snakes LOL - Deist is a not christanity or a step toward it. It is however, for many people, a real step AWAY from christ - virgin birth - talking snakes - raising from the dead, prophets and the rest of the crazy myth of the so called revealed text of the bible.
This is no great victory for your mythical character, Christ. It means no more to christ believers than him becomming a Buddist.
Cuffsmaster 3 years ago
Cuffsmaster, since you're so confident that Christianity is a myth, then I STRONGLY suggest you do yourself the courtesy of watching the debate between Gary Habermas and Anthony Flew on the Resurrection of Jesus. You'd be in for a rude awakening, my friend.
BassP86 3 years ago
Bass if you believe in a myth no amount of reasoning and truth with change you. That is the case with virgin births, resurrection fairy talkes, talking snakes, tower of babble, creationism and the other goat herder myths. You can believe if you wish but don't expect a logical thinking person to buy this crap. It's up you to prove a fairy tale is real. The more unrealiztic, the more proof you need. Christianity has failed to prove this. Faith without proof and evidience is just myth.
Cuffsmaster 3 years ago
"The more unrealiztic, the more proof you need." - If you mean unrealistic as in that which does not necessarily conform by physical laws, then you are greatly misinformed as there are plenty of "unrealistic" things in this universe, which TRANSCEND natural law, that you surely accept with open arms and without proof.
BassP86 3 years ago
Bass -- If you mean unrealistic as in that which does not necessarily conform by physical laws, then you are greatly misinformed as there are plenty of "unrealistic" things in this universe, which TRANSCEND natural law, that you surely accept with open arms and without proof. REPLY An this is your excuse for talking snakes LOL. It is a false statement anyway much less trying to use it as proof of goat herder tales. LOL so funny how far fundamentalist will reach to cover the crap.
Cuffsmaster 3 years ago
Bass-"If you mean unrealistic as in that which does not necessarily conform by physical laws, then you are greatly misinformed as there are plenty of "unrealistic" things in this universe, which TRANSCEND natural law, that you surely accept with open arms and without proof." REPLY - what crap. If there was the slighted bit of truth to the bible you would not need this kind of beating around the bush argument. you have smoke and mirrors and no proof. Never will have as long as you live.
Cuffsmaster 3 years ago
The truth is Christianity is a lie used to butt fuck the world with. You want it to be true but during this whole conversation you have offered NO proof. Christianity has elaborate and fake church doctrine in an attempt to show it is real but the BOTTOM LINE is that you cant prove the very basic stories in the bible are real. So you have to use smoke and mirrors and try to sidetrack from the truth. You have attempted this here for months.
Cuffsmaster 3 years ago
christians must alway sidestep the very simple questions like. Prove the talking snake? THey hae to sidestep these questions and attempt to change the subject. THey lie for Jesus and sidestep or admit there is no proof. That is the only two options.
Cuffsmaster 3 years ago
It has become a huge part of fundamentislt culture to sidestep and never address the simple questions head on. they know they can[t prove a damn thing there fore must try to cloud the issue with bullshit. Hell they can't even prove the main character _ Jesus - is real. They try to butt fuck the world with a guy they can't really prove lived.
Cuffsmaster 3 years ago
Furthermore Cuff, your position strongly resembles David Hume's argument that whatever is not empirically or scientifically testable must be disregarded as sophistry. The problem with his argument is THAT statement ITSELF is neither empirically or scientifically testable. Your argument is in ITSELF unproven thereby making it unrealistic. Therefore your argument that "The more unrealiztic, the more proof you need" is complete hogwash. Nice try though.
BassP86 3 years ago
LOL - speaking of hogwash -- Well I see no point in continuing with you can't even have a logical conversation lol oh my .
Cuffsmaster 3 years ago
If by "logical conversation", you mean a discussion that is devoid of rationality and completely subject to one's opinions, then yes, I refuse to be involved in one of those. ;)
BassP86 3 years ago
Bass-- "If by "logical conversation", you mean a discussion that is devoid of rationality and completely subject to one's opinions, then yes, I refuse to be involved in one of those. ;) " REPLY logical and the bible are not the same. Truth and the bible are not the same. Rational and taling snakes LOL. You have the nerve to talk of devoid of rationality and the bible LOL. The one that is devoid of rationality is the one trying to push the bible as fact. But you really know that.
Cuffsmaster 3 years ago
Bass said: "The problem with his argument is THAT statement ITSELF is neither empirically or scientifically testable. Your argument is in ITSELF unproven thereby making it unrealistic." REPLY - yeah it's unreaiistic to think tha stories of talking shakes, the earth is covered with a dome, the earth is flat, casting demons into pigs is horse shit. It is unscienctific to view them as laughable crap. sure more double talking bullshit to hide the fact your little tales are crap.
Cuffsmaster 3 years ago
"Faith without proof and evidience is just myth." - Define faith.
"You can believe if you wish but don't expect a logical thinking person to buy this crap." - Apparently, Anthony Flew bought a lot "crap" from what theists have said, so does that therefore make him illogical? What about Habermas? He was an AGNOSTIC when he wrote a 200 page report on the resurrection. Upon examining the evidence both pro AND con, he concluded that Christianity was the truth and converted. Is he illogical too?
BassP86 3 years ago
I remember reading Flew and all the press around it and seeing an interview with him. He is not a Christian he's a deist. He did not accept christ. There is a huge differenct in being a deist and believing in creation non-science, talking snakes and virgin births.
Cuffsmaster 3 years ago
"He is not a Christian he's a deist." - So? He still denounced his atheism, didn't he?
BassP86 3 years ago
Exactly. He doesn't have to convert to a certain type of theism in order to have denounced atheism.
VeggieTrunks 3 years ago
I am a deist. Deist don't believe in talking snakes - creation non-science and all the other crap in the bible. Deism is not a step away from atheism in that both old hands in their beliefs about science. Both reject the bible, prophets, raising from the dead, virgin births and all the other foolish crap. Deism is a rejection of theism, you get on jesus christ in it.
Cuffsmaster 3 years ago
Cuff, that's ironic since you accept that God created the universe. That might as well just be hogwash as well, by your logic.
You're saying that talking snakes are ridiculous is actually a strawman. The reason is because you're presupposing that if snakes talked then it MUST be a NATURAL occurance, not a supernatural one. This is clearly false, because by definition, it would have been an act of God. You also beg the question by basically saying it's hogwash because of your deism.
BassP86 3 years ago
oh yes it might be hogwash that a being started the big bang -- I agree that atheist could be correct and I am wrong. But what I don't accept is that the answer lies in the stupid bible and fairy tales. No I don't think talking snakes are natural. I think they are made up by ignorant people of ancient times and still believed by illogial people today. It is not a matter of supernatural. It is a matter of hogwash.
Cuffsmaster 3 years ago
one can believe that the means of creating the universe was started by a higher being and not beleive in the foolish stories of the bible (revealed text), Prophets, or some silly story of jesus. Deism is not a rejection of science as is fundamentist christanity. Fundamentalist must deny truth- science and logic to make their little revealed text real. Truth does not matter only the no-logic revealed text. That is why teaching it to kids is child abuse
Cuffsmaster 3 years ago
It is laughable for a christian to use the term "strawman" to refer to anyone elses point of view. A straw man argument is an informal fallacy based on misrepresentation. The whole bible is false to begin with. NO truth at all. It's not history but myth. Down deep you know that. but can't allow yourself to admit itl LOL
Cuffsmaster 3 years ago
"The whole bible is false to begin with. NO truth at all. It's not history but myth." - Ah, then it's actually up to you to refute the evidences for the resurrection of Jesus. I'll be glad to give them to you in a private message. Though we'll have to keep the subject in the comment board relevant because the subject of the video was Anthony Flew's convergence from atheism, not the evidence for the resurrection.
BassP86 3 years ago
Bass-- "Ah, then it's actually up to you to refute the evidences\\" REPLY: The one thing you can count on from a fundamentalist is that they will find some way to squirm out of trying to prove their myth because they know they can't . They will alway try to make you prove thee was no talking snake when in fact they KNOW it is their duty to prove there was one if they expect you to believe that crap. They know they are belieng is crap and have to use smoke and mirrors to keep it going.
Cuffsmaster 3 years ago
Bass - "I'll be glad to give them to you in a private message. Though we'll have to keep the subject in the comment board relevant because the subject of the video was Anthony Flew's convergence from atheism, not the evidence for the resurrection" REPLY: Why in the world would I want to exchange private emails about unproven myths and stupid believes in a being that is not real.
Cuffsmaster 3 years ago
"Why in the world would I want to exchange private emails about unproven myths and stupid believes in a being that is not real." - This is begging the question Cuff. You presuppose that the Christian God is false before you even allow the Christian to give evidence for his beliefs. Haha, first you say that I need to provide evidence and then you turn around and disregard the opportunity to even see such evidence before it is offered. That's how I know that you're not being honest with yourself.
BassP86 3 years ago
Bass said: "You presuppose that the Christian God is false before you even allow the Christian to give evidence for his beliefs" REPLY -- you presuppose I haven't heard the stupid christian crap all my live LOL. The crap you would spread is the same false crap spread forever.. you claim christians give evident of his belief. That's a lie for Jesus.. you give myth that is unproven and unprovable and calm it's evidence. you're not being honest or truthful. Shame on you. show proof.
Cuffsmaster 3 years ago
Bess-- "fyou say that I need to provide evidence and then you disregard the opportunity to see evidence before it is offered. " REPLY Show evidence all readers, prove the fucking talking snake. Don't change the subject -- show it here. Here's your change to tstick jesus up the ass of many -- Prove the talking snake. Don't give me the phone side stepping proofs christians try to spout. If the bible is real -- prove it. Not the horseshit christians offer as sidestepping proof.
Cuffsmaster 3 years ago
"Prove the talking snake." "If the bible is real -- prove it." - Haha! Since when is a talking snake the entirety of the Bible. Don't project side-stepping on me, my friend.
BassP86 3 years ago
Bass said: "If the bible is real -- prove it." - Haha! Since when is a talking snake the entirety of the Bible. Don't project side-stepping on me, my friend." REPLY -- so you can't prove it and want to sidestep it LOL.
Cuffsmaster 3 years ago
Bass- "That's how I know that you're not being honest with yourself" REPLY: some guy claiming that talking snakes, the great flood, Jews fleeing Egypt, parting of waters and creations has the nerve to proclaim that others are not being honest with himself. That is soo fucking funny. A christian trick. I bet the Greeks that believed in Zeus, Hermes, Dionysus and Apollo said the same bullshit to defend their gods. LOL The stories are no different or less believible.
Cuffsmaster 3 years ago
"I bet the Greeks that believed in Zeus, Hermes, Dionysus and Apollo said the same bullshit to defend their gods." - Haha, Cuff this is all you had to do from the beginning, just show how Christianity is not true compare to other religions. That's all you had to do, Cuff. You're saying that one of the reasons as to why the Bible can't be true is because Christianity allegedly copied from pre-existing religions. Is that one of your reasons?
BassP86 3 years ago
Bass said: "That's all you had to do, Cuff. You're saying that one of the reasons as to why the Bible can't be true is because Christianity allegedly copied from pre-existing religions. Is that one of your reasons?" REPLY - Re read what I said. not need to retype
Cuffsmaster 3 years ago
bass said: "Cuff. You're saying that one of the reasons as to why the Bible can't be true is because Christianity allegedly copied from pre-existing religions. Is that one of your reasons? " REPLY NO, not at all. I could care less where they got the myths from. I am saying your logic for proving the talking snake, flood, towr of babble, can also be used to prove Zeus. Bullshit is bullship no matter what religion you attach it to.
Cuffsmaster 3 years ago
"I am saying your logic for proving the talking snake, flood, towr of babble, can also be used to prove Zeus." - The foundation of Christian beliefs is the resurrection of Jesus, not the other things you've mentioned. What you're telling me is that if I don't prove one event that is stated in the Bible then the entire Bible is not true, and that's fallacious. I honestly thought you knew that.
BassP86 3 years ago
Bass said: The foundation of Christian beliefs is the resurrection of Jesus, not the other things you've mentioned. What you're telling me is that if I don't prove one event that is stated in the Bible then the entire Bible is not true, and that's fallacious. I honestly thought you knew that. REPLY: All that sound good I see the agree the bible is full of myths and unproven crap passed as truth. I am glad we agree. Now you say it does not matter.
Cuffsmaster 3 years ago
Bass said: "What you're telling me is that if I don't prove one event that is stated in the Bible then the entire Bible is not true, and that's fallacious. I honestly thought you knew that. " REPLY: so all these ridiculous myths suddenly become true when speaking of Jesus and the virgin birth and resurrection. A book filled with myths suddenly becomes truth LOL sure. Prove his virgin birth. prove he cast out sickness and evil spirits into pigs LOL It's horse shit.
Cuffsmaster 3 years ago
Bass - The foundation of Christian beliefs is the resurrection of Jesus, REPLY -- the truth is the foundations of christanity is based in the fables of the bible that are drilled into children. (child abuse). THe crap in the old test. helps them believe the crap in the new testoment. Claiming it is founded on the resurrection myth is smoke and mirrors as well. It is an attempt to get off the hook for the rest of the bible bullshit taught in chruch every day. Double talk
Cuffsmaster 3 years ago
Bass said: "I am saying your logic for proving the talking snake, flood, towr of babble, can also be used to prove Zeus." - The foundation of Christian beliefs is the resurrection of Jesus, REPLY : much of the same horse shit used in claiming that there was a god named Jesus in not much different that what the Greeks used to prove Zeus and his kids. Again Jesus and the mircles = virgin birth and all the other crap are unproven. Hell he didn't even know what caused sickness (demons) lol
Cuffsmaster 3 years ago
Bass said: foundation of Christian beliefs is the resurrection of Jesus, not the other you've mentions REPLY so you admit the resurrection of Christ is true for sure but you're willing to admit the rest of the bible is horseshit. It all smells like horseshit to me. NO logic. None of it. It's all unproven fairly tale. Oh you want it to be true and will blind yourself and ignore truth to make it so but the bottom line is that it is crap. unproven crap
Cuffsmaster 3 years ago
"you claim christians give evident of his belief. That's a lie for Jesus." - Try me. Give me an example of evidence that Christians use that is not evidence at all.
BassP86 3 years ago
Bass said: -Try me. Give me an example of evidence that Christians use that is not evidence at all. REPLY Laughable -- re-read post -- supernatural crap.
Cuffsmaster 3 years ago
Bass said: Try me. Give me an example of evidence that Christians use that is not evidence at all. REPLY - you have been writting smoke and mirros for months here. NO evidence to disprove the myth of the bible.
Cuffsmaster 3 years ago
Bass said: "You presuppose that the Christian God is false before you even allow the Christian to give evidence for his beliefs: REPLY -- Oh Gee -- I'm suspose to beleive it's real first -- ah I get it. How nice for you because that means you'd never have to prove the talking snakes, great flood, creation science, or casting of demons into pigs. LOL That goes back to the bullshit they teach about faith. Faith not fact LOL. But that else can they say with your pushing bullshit as truth.
Cuffsmaster 3 years ago
Bass - said: "keep the subject -on-the subject of the video -convergence from atheism -, not the evidence for the resurrection." REPLY Oh I;m sure you'd like to get away from the subject of tne bible being false and no evidence will ever exist to prove a word of it. you'd like to keep your head burried in the sand and not be presented with the task of actually proving it is not a lie created by man. TO bad you have got away with the lie to long as it is. where's the proof.
Cuffsmaster 3 years ago
If you want people to believe in your little invisible friend in the sky then it is your place to prove it. After all christians beleive they have the duty to spread the word -- well prove it don't just tell the phony story of the talkng snake - prove itl Christians are the ones wanting to butt fuck the world with their faith. Prove it's real so it will be an enjoyalbe fuck LOL.
Cuffsmaster 3 years ago
The bible makes claims that are not realistic. If a christian want someone else to beleve they not to show it is real. PERIOD. If you are talking about talking snakes, great floods, virgin births then it is certainly not the person the uses logics duty to disprove. It is the one pushing such stupid stories to prove them. hell you can't even prove Jesus had a virgin birth. The whole story is a lie if not proven. This is not a court of law, it is common sense.
Cuffsmaster 3 years ago
Bass "You also beg the question by basically saying it's hogwash because of your deism" REPLY LOL - the bible would be hogwash no matter my religion. That has nothing to do with it being ilogical. it is the crap that is IN it that is false.
Cuffsmaster 3 years ago
"the bible would be hogwash no matter my religion." - Ah, but no it wouldn't. This is an argument from ignorance as to how many other religions accept the Bible's validity: Judaisim, Islam, some branches of Hinduism, Baha'ism, etc. No offense, but you have to actually make an effort to SUBSTANTIATE your claims that Christians reject logic and science.
BassP86 3 years ago
Bass said: "you have to actually make an effort to SUBSTANTIATE your claims that Christians reject logic and science." REPLY -- 1) talking snakes 2) casting demons into pigs 3) virgin birth 4) jumping out of the grave LOL --
Cuffsmaster 3 years ago
Bass -- "supernatural" REPLY - Supernatural would be if you could PROVE a snake talked. The acts would most likely be supernatural. BUT it didn't happen and you can't prove it did. it is a story by goat herders. A false story and not supernatural. If is fake.
Cuffsmaster 3 years ago
"Supernatural would be if you could PROVE a snake talked." - Cuff, you're missing the point. You're playing a double standard game here. You accept that a deity created the universe, yet you do not rub THAT off as hogwash just you would anything else that would be supernatural. You'd probably argue that anything else that is supernatural is not proven, but if that is the case, then logically you would have to apply the same answer to the supernatural origin of the universe. Why don't you?
BassP86 3 years ago
Bass trying to still get out of proving the bible said: "Cuff, you're missing the point. You're playing a double standard game here. You accept that a deity created the universe, yet you do not rub THAT off as hogwash just you would anything else that would be supernatural" REPLY --- only double talk -- no proof because none exist. I admit my faith may be wrong and the atheist may be right but I know the answer is not in the lie and butt fucking of someone pushing a false Jesus.
Cuffsmaster 3 years ago
bass -- supernatural REPLY : the sad proof is that using the word supernatural as proof is smoke and mirrors for you can't even prove the event happed you claim is supernatual. For you have to have a proven event to claim it is supernatural. The bottow line is that it is just another attempt to butt fuck the world with lies. the simple questios is always unanswered -- Prove it? smoke and mirros can't change the fact you will never be able to answer the simple question.
Cuffsmaster 3 years ago
"only double talk -- no proof because none exist." - So you're saying that's irrational to believe in whatever is not proven, correct?