if this is true, how come mason reemy was the only one of 19 to make this statement/belief. the other 18, one which included Shoghi Effendi's wife, all agreed on the establishment of the Universal House of Justice. Only God can answer you, i as a theologist and historian can see how wrong you are. i pray for your soul
u expect us to believe this video with such a vile tone of voice, lack of humility, almost a glass full of idiotic beliefs...
although Baha'ullah taught us the principle of the independent investigation of the truth, I do not recall Him referring to listen to Covenant. breakers it is actually illegal.
it is not important to dwell upon these topics. we are hear to make the world a better place and we aint gona be doing that by letting life pass us by while we're sitting here debating on this
Last quote is from God (revealed in the Qur'an) and not from Muhammad (narrations known as ah-hadith). It would've been better to say it that way. And yeah, I know that it came out of Muhammad's mouth but we're all understanding of the actual Revelation from our Lord most high.
There's a great debate on which is the truth, both sides are saying that theirs are the truth.. Each sides try to influence others that they are the right one and inflicted hatred towards the opposing sites.. It's extremely sad... how a beautiful faith can be polluted by such unpleasant thoughts.. Why don't we accept & trust each other??? It will be a better world
Just face the fact that Bahaism was founded by British agents who wanted to further divide and weaken Islam and the fiercely independent Persian Shia culture. They did the same thing with the Ahmadiyyah movement in India, Wahhabis in Arabia and they also funded the masonic Young Turks in the Ottoman Emp. Bahai is now a foundation funded NWO cult and nothing more. I doubt the supposed founder has any relation to the present organisation. Quite clever indeed.
You even have the name of the religion wrong. That doesn't bode well for the factual nature of anything else you say. Get some basic facts straight and you possibly will sound like you know what you are talking about.
The historically documented fact that Baha'u'llah (actual Founder of the Baha'i Faith) spent most of His life in tortuous conditions in hideous prisons and in exile, of course proves that he just did it for money and power, right?
If you even bothered to read some of the Baha'i writings, you would be amazed how differently you would think towards the Baha'i faith and its followers. The facts that you stated above are nothing more than fake propaganda created by the Islamic republic of Iran to create hatred against the Bahai's of Iran and other countries. Baha'i people are one of the most kind and generous people you will meet. Please do some research as to what Bahai's believe in and you will be convinced.
"If religion becomes the point of contention then better to have NO religion at all"
I am in favor of this for all ALL modern religions. DSIBAND then come back in LOVE and love only for there you will find God and not in the ramblings of your contending intellects.
The Hands of the Cause did what no other group in the history of religion has done.
They had the ability to take control of the Faith, but they instated the Universal House of Justice and refused to allow themselves to be eligible for its vote.
They have loyally followed the plans the UHJ has set out.
Read the statements of the UHJ. They are so beautifully aligned with teachings of Baha'u'llah. This would be impossible from power seekers. Everything they say is pure humility.
1. Shoghi Effendi NEVER WROTE A WILL, all of the Hands of the Cause including Mason Remey acknowledged this.
2. The Guardian MUST be of the bloodline of Baha'u'llah and must be a blood descendant of Baha'u'llah. Mason Remey was not an Aghsan, and there was never an eletction process as described by Abdu'l Baha as written
3. Mason Remey and the other Hands signed a document and issued a universal agreement that Shoghi Effendi had not appointed a successor.
1. The Will & Testament of 'Abdu'l-Baha doesn't state that the guardian must leave a will, just that he MUST appoint his successor "within his lifetime"
2. Nowhere in the Baha'i writings is Aghsan defined as a "blood descendant", but rather as a son from the line of Baha'u'llah. An adopted son has all the rights & privelages of a natural son, including inheritance & kingship.
3. The Hands were a non-authoritative group. They had no power after the death of Shoghi Effendi.
Do you really believe that ownership of property is the criteria for recognizing the truth?
There have never been divisions in the Faith, as the Covenant is clear. However, that doesn't mean that the majority cannot fall away from the Covenant.
Any so-called UHJ without the Davidic King seated as it's president is not Baha'u'llah's UHJ.
sorryy but you have made a big mistake, if you did yourresearch you would nkow that the fonder of the Baha'i Faith was Baha'u'llah NOT this other erson yu have mentioned who i dont even want to say the name of !
If you only knew,,,, i feel so sorry for you, you will find out why in the next world :( So sad
I'm sorry friend but it is you who are mistaken in your understanding of the message of this video. We didn't claim that Dr. Jensen was the "founder" of the Baha'i Faith for obviously as you pointed out it was Baha'u'llah who founded the Faith, his son who delineated the Covenant, and Shoghi Effendi who established the Administration. Then his "Hands" violated the Covenant & took the Faith hostage making it something other than intended. Dr. Jensen has reestablished the Faith & fixed the errors.
Perhaps you have misunderstood. Of course there were and are no errors in what Baha'u'llah, 'Abdu'l-Baha & Shoghi Effendi set forth. However, the FALLIBLE "hands" did make errors, and not on accident. They did away with the Davidic Kingship, the Aghsan line of guardians, sending the guardianship into exile. Dr. Leland Jensen has re-established what the covenant-breakers threw out, the IBC/UHJ with the Davidic King as it's Head [Rais].
The passage "whoso disobeys him..."etc. is another plagarism from the Qur'an, one of many quotations from world scripture Baha'is fail to cite. The "Will" of Abdul-Baha is a forgery, which is immediately apparent to anyone who looks into its history. The founder of this faith truly had the spirit of his age, the angry child who must destroy all else until only his ego remains. His legacy is paranoia. Those who are aware of the truth prize it for itself, not for gain. How absolutely silly.
According to the Will and Testament of Abdu'l-Baha, a Guardian must be a lineal descendant. Mason Remey had no such blood relationship with the Holy Family. Just as importantly, even if a Guardian is a lineal descendant, his appointment must be approved by the Hands of the Cause of God. Mason Remey had no such approval. Finally, Remey himself signed the document of the Hands accepting that there was no descendant of the Guardian
Mason is the real & LEGAL son [ghusn] of 'Abdu'l-Baha. The definition is not confined to a blood relative. Where is that in the explicit text? Shoghi explained in Baha'i News, Feb. 1955, that the passage about the Hands assent in no way meant that the Hands could overrule the decision of the guardian, as this would provide for a conflict of authority.
The information in this video is actually comprised of the introduction for the book Entry By Troops written by the Establisher of the Baha'i Faith, Dr. Leland Jensen. You can read it or download it for free at:
entry by troops (dot) o r g
Feel free to write Adam or me if you have any questions or concerns, or would like more information. Have fun.
ZZEE33eeettteee3, how come you can't provide the writings we asked you for to support your positions? How come you can't quote the writings for any of your assertions? Ad hominen is your only rationale? Pathetic. Do you possess any writnigs? Do you read them? Have you seen the part where SE explains the administration would be "permanently mutilated" without an executive branch (GPB p.248)? You imaginary man-made UHJ is bfallible and outside the covenant; that puts you out there too. Good luck.
As I said your gardian is THE GOLDEN CALF created by INFIDELS to atract & satisfy UR love for: confusion,disunity, spritual & intelectual dishonesty,contempt,chalenge to the autority,love 4 distroction of "Stublish Order",etc.
Your gardian is ANTICHRAIST of the Universal House of Justice in Haifa on the mountaine of God & you the ANTICHRISTS FOLOWERS.
you R nothing but REINCARNATION of ,AZAL & MUHAMMAD ALI ,AHMAD SOHRAB .
The Guardian of the Cause of God CANNOT by definition be "antichrist", as the Guardian is the Christ of the Baha'i World Order, being the "anointed male lineal descendant of King David", which is the very meaning of the word "Christ" or "Messiah". Are you aware of WHY Baha'u'llah is the 2nd Christ? It's because He came seated "upon the throne of David". This Kingship is promised by God to continue forever on earth (psalms 89). Do you accept the Everlasting Covenant of God?
ZeeEttt33eete, if you ever find the administration Hands invented fails to live up to your expectations you're always welcome to give the one that was established according to the all provisions of the covenant. There is a UHJ with the living Guardian at it's head, established according to all the explicit instructions. Your imaginary UHJ has no head or even an executive branch at all, ehich Shoghi declared was "essential".Clearly you have further reading to accomplish, so get to it.
That is "IF" there is a Gurdian He shall BE the head of UniversalHouse of JUstice,without interfaring in the functions of the House.
BUT,there was not a suitable,worthy,Godly,Selfless,pure,
GHUSN remaining 2 B apointed as the Gurdian.
So He should make by all means any "THING" as a physical head. Imagening the faith as shape of a human boady , the "HOUSE" is "THE HEAD" & is functioning. Thanks to BAHAULLAH & HIS HOSTS (Concours on high)
While I understand that you don't accept the Everlasting Covenant of God that the Davidic Kingship will endure forever (see psalms 89 & Proclamation of Baha'u'llah, pg. 89) in the person of the living guardian, the institution of the guardianship & the person of the living guardian do nevertheless continue to exist today.
Again, do you have that verse to support your earlier comment that Baha'u'llah is the head of the uhj? Thank you.
I burst out laughing when you said that you're member of the BUPC founded by convicted rapist Leland Jensen who thought himself to be the promised Joshua. I suppose your new leader is Neal Chase who made 18 predictions none of which came to pass? It is quite sad to talk about prophecies being literal but then changing it into spiritual when member start leaving the group. You're just life a UFO-cult.
Dr. Leland Jensen, Establisher of the Baha'i Faith, was not a convicted rapist. That is completely false.
You are correct that he fulfills prophecy as the Promised Establisher of the Baha'i Faith, Joshua (Jesus) the High Priest as spoken of in Zechariah. You've obviously received some education on this subject, & are now doing with those pearls as is expected, rolling around in the mud with them.
May God bless you & may you continue to do your part.
The Head of the Universal House of Justice is BAHAULLAH.
u have been use 2 worshipe idols & u cant imagine the power of the COVNENT work in spirit. u have been manipolated all ur lives by prists & mulas & rabayes so 2 imagine a body fonctioning with spritual intentions without any one as "HEAD" 4 u is imposible so:
u had to carve & make the calfe (which by the way is not even from gold ) & worshipe IT ,it is adiction of ,from and 2: the old world orde. it will soon B forgoten.
Ur coment isactualy a projection & reflection of ur feling of inadecuency in both areas u mentioned imposed on u by ur superiors 2 rube u from ur selfe confidence ,the same superiority complex became a trap for naive,arogant,presumptus masan rimy since he found himself ,"smarter & more educated" then other Hands not 2 mention his venity when he use 2 make refrence to his hight.
This is not a jurny that u can make by material education.
It's clear you're not here to reason, just to argue. You can have your headless house, & we'll stick with the UHJ with the Guardian as its President. God's blessings to you.
Dont pray for me pray for your self,but you are one of those that AbdulBaha refars to by saying"the worse enemies of the faith are in the faith......"that is since you think u r stil "in"
But it is not so .A heart filled will LOVE OF BAHAULLAH can not,willnot,shouldnot chalenge THE UNIVERSAL HOUSE OF JUSTIC.
your uhj is fallible. it was established prematurely, without the require executive branch, and without adherence to most of the prerequisite instructions. it was a creation of the covevant-breaking hands, and now you are their champion. your proof by assertion that we must obey this fallible body exposes the weakness of both your intellect and education.
O my loving friends! Consort with all the peoples, kindreds and religions of the world with the utmost truthfulness, uprightness, faithfulness, kindliness, good-will and friendliness, that all the world of being may be filled with the holy ecstasy of the grace of Bahá, that ignorance, enmity, hate and rancor may vanish from the world and the darkness of estrangement amidst the peoples and kindreds of the world may give way to the Light of Unity.Such are the attributes of the sincere!-Abdul-Baha
U R as the jewes to Christ,Christians 2 Muhammed,they 2 The Bab ,Babis 2 Bahaullah,and after Bahaullah suporters of muhamad ali had obeying the Master & after the Master some had obeing Shoghi Efendi.
cas"you are unable to see the truth 4 what thy hands hath wroth"
Cas courupt souls want things 2 B acording 2 their pety mind & intelectual dishonesty which R the result of filty life, &4 The kingdome of God there R tests which only pure in heart can pas.
Yes, there are TESTS, and the primary tests in the cause always revolve around the covenant and the "changing of the guard", so to speak. And so it was, that a majority became as "dead wood" fit for the fire, when they went along with the non-authoritative group known as "The Hands" instead of turning immediately to Shoghi Effendi's successor, the IBC/UHJ with the guardian as President/Executive Branch.
God is so merciful, that he's allowing a re-take of this test, & it's open-book.
As 2 the judjment of people :we R asked not to asociate with the unGodly,& to vote for the best member of our comunith every Ridvan,& to mary the one who has the same gole or caracter as ourselves and 2 protect our children & youth from bad company,&...
all these requiers sense & act of judjment of others faith & caracter
So stop using the redundent christian terms which by the way has led the entire world to prmesquity and moral laxity and consequently spritualy dead . REASON U DONT GET IT.
What do you mean "christian terms"? Do you mean the FACT that Baha'u'llah is a descendant of King David & the Return of Christ? Because Baha'u'llah Himself wrote about these matters. What "redundant christian terms" are you referring to please?
Any time you people cote from central figurs of the faith to advance your arguments you resembele exactly a pig playing with pearls.the froiut of beliving in any of the central figures is OBEDIENCE TO THE UNIVERSAL HOUSE OF JUSTIV\CE.
In Kitabi Aghdas,nowere Bahaullah talks about REJALE BITULADL being void and inefective if a worthy Gardian couldnot be apointed. He forsees a day , that the only auturity is BEITUL ADL.
Be trustworthy ,u will grasp mystries of God ,other wise you are nothing but a unscropolos lawyer .
If you trouly belive in the power of the centre of the covnent you would have not even for a secend belive He has left the couse to be in the wrong pat since over 50 years ago,obviously you have no FAITH.
Obviously only God can judge another's faith, so why would a spiritually evolved soul like yourself make such a ridiculous comment? The Master once said that if two souls disagree and become disagreeable about it, then they are both wrong. You have clearly come here with your righteous indignation to be disagreeable. Sadly for you, your cause will find noone to indulge this with.
You are like pigs playing wiyh pearls,you need to be honest and pur hearted to discover mystries of God.A bunch of perverts an liers and backbiters and dishonest people are domed to ignorance and error as they dont deserve better .See in what deep ..... you are and what a glorious condition is the state of the couse with the guidence of the Universal House of Justice on the mount carmel.Bahaullah would have not let the victory come to falshood,He has promised and that is the secret of the triomf
As far as I remember the covenant unto Israeliates with god was " cutting off the foreskin of their males "DICK" , to distinguish themselves from gentiles. Thinking god will favour them if they do so.
Did not know that the same practis also became a creed among the bahais. Very funny reviving old barbaric rituals of dead sea dwellers in this day and age.
Hunger and thirst fo ledership has allwayes been source of division and conflict,but not in thisage we have the bounty of God the UNIVERSAL HOUSE OF JUSTICE and its infalibility doese not depend on the physical presence of a Gardian,Bahaullah Himselfe is watching over IT.
z, you are quite confused about these matters, and arre clearly just repeating what you we told. of course the uhj's infallibility is dependant upon conditions, and having the guardian as its "sacred head" is #1. don't you what the writings EXPLICITLY say about this?
Whe no ghusn amoungst Aghsan has remeined faithful to the faith,what should the beloved Gardian write? just the polimic of having a willand testement left so that every day some body claiming the real one is with hime?
zeeete, no where does it say his appointment was to be in a will. that was an invention of the hands to bolster their violation of the covenant. now you are here championing this violation. who told you of these lies?
Shoghi Efendi knew there willnot be a Gardian after him,He even chosed to pass away far away from holy land so that some idiots will not make story that He called so and so to his room.He would have called the person you think was spesial to london prior to His passing if that person was special.
and allthis fabrications wich you think is logical is nothing but result of impurities that have invaded your lifes .
He would have simply write a testment and apoint the next Gardian,HE DID NOT.
If you believe that Shoghi Effendi had foresight of his own death, how can you believe for a moment that he would not fulfill his part of the Covenant as stipulated in the Will & Testament, that he "must choose another branch [ghusn]", and that it is "incumbent" upon him to choose a successor "within his lifetime". If, as you assert, he knew he was going to die at that time, how can you for an instant believe that he would knowingly violate the trust which 'Abdu'l-Baha had placed in him?
zeeete, no where does it say his appointment was to be in a will. that was an invention of the hands to bolster their violation of the covenant. now you are here championing this violation. who told you of these lies?
Nope, that's not what the word religion means. The word religion comes from the latin 'religio' which means 'to bind together'. The word ligament comes from this same root word. The point is that religion is intended to 'bind together' the hearts and minds of the people. Your criticism of 'religion' is misguided, for if you were to examine it closer you'd see that clearly you're throwing out the baby with the bath water.
Muslims vs. Infidels..My parents INHERITED their "faith" as those before them.Most "believers" believe because their parents did! Most Bahai's are educated and bright.Unfortunately, like any other religious groups, they keep a closed mind, not to other religions, but to the concept of the necessity of religion. Unfortunately religion is a big part of the problem.
I absolutely agree. I would clarify that the world's *organized* religions create it's conflicts. i.e. the religions run by men who make their living off of being "leaders" of their respective faiths have one and all proven themselves unfit to lead, and corrupt from within. The Baha'i Faith, on the other hand, is free of this oppression, as a clergy class is forbidden, and it's an entirely unorganized organization with every believer equal to the other. Thanks for sharing.
While that's a fairly obvious observation, you haven't offered any insight into the solution. Also, the exact opposite is equally true: history shows that people are the source of all good, ever so blind to the evil that lurks. These are both inane statements; what purpose do either serve?
Let's stay on topic. What did you think of the video?
Well, lets say that we all ignore the goodness of mankind, accepting all of this discord. We are only but those that are doomed, correct?
But what if we pull ourselves out of that hopeless pit, stand up and say something against this ignorance. Only good things are too come!
But this way, it's harder. People have to commit to being kind and wise as well as giving up many pleasurable and material things. I feel it's 'cause we're all.. un-enlighted? LOL
I think it's a very good video. What don't you understand? As I was saying, your religion, and all religion is bull plop. This of course is my opinion. Are you going to call me bad names now? Maybe you should question things more?
I do........Therefore I have no religion.
The "red flare" should go up when choosing to believe in any faith.
bigboy, the only thing you've managed to establish is that you think "religions are bull plop". So what? You haven't presented any reasons, facts, or even theories why. Congratulations on your new found dogma. I'm sure atheism is going to be very fulfilling for you. Clearly your time here talking down to others has been quite well spent; do you feel better about yourself now?
So do you have any comments to add about this particular video, or is this just a troll visit?
JCouraged, The last time I checked, Christanty is split, fractured, discombobulated, 38,000 times. Could you please show me The Unity in that. What is the point your trying to make in this post. The Bab (the gate) was sent by God to usher in the Bahai Faith. Jesus himself said his "Return" would be through "The Gate" in the "Glory of God" (Baha'u'llah)
this is not life. just words. you arent gettiing very far and you have next to no support as i can see here. arent making much of a mark. get a life, it would be best for you
What's the problem, friend? Are you genuinely suggesting that you know what's "best for" us? We've received positive response from people all over the globe who have taken the next step in their personal investigation of this information. Anything can seem to be "just words" until a human being decides to use their God-given intellect to meditate & investigate. What happens next is beyond words, but you can't teach spirituality. All we can offer is proof & evidence of God's Plan.
Your comments here are rather amusing, seeing as how on your user page you fancy yourself a "seeker" of sorts, who's determined to find all that is beautiful in the world; and yet you repeatedly return here to harass our teaching effort? You're quite a walking contradiction, aren't you? How exactly does it benefit your "journey" to put others down? What comfort does it bring you to speak down to your fellow travelers this way?
i would never waste this much time of my life answering to this many people and make religion this complicated. period. good luck in this fruitless act of --words--
Howdy friend; welcome back. Thanks for the negative vibes & put downs :)
I can appreciate your perspective, as you elaborated upon it in earlier visits, but until any of your videos ever get viewed by more than a couple dozen people you won't be faced with having to worry about what commentators contribute, will you? As these videos are viewed by thousands of folks, we feel that we should respond to the few comments posted per day as possibly hundreds of folks will read them who won't comment.
What's truly strange is that this would be of any interest to a Christian apologist such as yourself in the first place. This is all common knowledge to the Baha'is at large, so it's amusing that you present this as if you're going to shatter the faith of the faithful. And the myriad of details you're so utterly confused about are so vast that I couldn't imagine where to begin. Nevertheless this has absolutely nothing to do with this video. Please stay on topic.
Abdul'Baha warns that attacks on the Covenant are always defended by promoting "unity". The Hands did just that when they "seized the helm of the Faith" in 1957; they made a call for unity and by doing so were justified in their violations.
No need to be sorry friend. But I am curious when you feel 'unity' took a preferred position over the Covenant? You see the Hands called for unity before they perpetrated the Great Violation in 1957. Now we have 6 million unified Covenant Breakers as a result. Unity is no substitute for Truth.
The corpses of the founders of this religion have barely gone cold in their graves and already we have a soap opera tin pot power struggle raging at the top
This is the religion that wants to supersede all religions? Its already dead in the water and proved itself just as silly as all religions that came before it. Religion is over folks crushed by science- face it, forget about it, and join the 21st century.
This argument is a classic case of throwing out the proverbial baby with the bathwater. Science hasn't "crushed" God has it? No, in fact sub-atomic physicists are now being forced to admit that an intelligent "Creator" of some kind is operating behind the scenes. It is this Creator that has sent the founding fathers of all the world religions. These religions may have been seized by corrupt hearts after-the-fact, but that hardly negates their messages, does it? You argument isn't sound. Regards.
Can you show where the contradictions or factual inaccuracies are? If there's either of these in the video we'll be the first ones to admit it and correct them. Thanks.
Shoghi Effendi who claimed that their family was descended from Jesse, David's father. The claim is made that when King Jehoiachin and the Jews were in exile during the Babylonian captivity, which began with the first invasion of Nebuchadnezzar in 606 BC, many of the Jewish royal family intermarried with the native Persian royalty!? But the last Persian King died before he could have children! (Bwhahahaha)
Well well. RICH! How ya doing. Using a fake ID I see. Think you can get away with it?
I'll give you ONE chance. Ever hear of the Exilarchs or Bostanai? Do a bit of research before making a donkey of yourself. God covenanted with David that his line will endure FOREVER (psalms 89). Also, by your version of events, nobody could ever be seated upon the throne of David, so how do you anticipate the coming of the Everlasting Father of Isaiah 9?
WRONG AGAIN! It was Jesus who told his apostles to look to Daniel 8 when asked they him what would be the sign for his coming & of the closing of the age (Matt 24:15). Surely if Jesus told them to look to this verse from Daniel to understand when he'd return he wasn't implying he would return in "171-165BC" was he? This is preposterous. It is Jesus himself that explained it's a prophecy. You do accept Jesus' testimony don't you? Why would you reject the very prophetic timeline he pointed to?
Rich, it's really a shame you can't find something productive to do with your time. I usually enjoy discussions with Christians here, but this isn't a discussion as you haven't once responded to any of our replies, but rather create endless strings of comments, most of which are bumped to the back pages and never see the light of day. Why you must recycle old posts 10 and 12 times each is strange and leaves me concerned for your well being. Manic-depression is treatable Rich; don't postpone joy.
If Joel B. Marangella is the guardian then why doesn't he make his own statement to the public. and if the Baha'i faith is wrong then why has it been growing so fast when your so called faith is still so small? Wouldn't the true faith of God have more success in guiding souls to their beloved than the false one?
This video is not saying that Joel has anything to do with the guardianship. He's a wannabe. The BUPC which seeks guidance from Baha'u'llah's UHJ with the Davidic King as its President, is constantly growing, with more & more coming on board the Ark of the Covenant from out of the violation of the "hands". This is why the group out of haifa has been suing us in court for the last many years, only to be denied in Geneva & now in Chicago. They want us shut up. Sore losers.
After listening to all of you, what I have to say is this: There is only one Baha'i faith! All of you are misguided! Ask yourself which covenant breakers are you following Mason Remey, Joel Bray Marangella, Donald Harvey or Pepe Remey. The proof is the root of all of your divisions. You can't change that not matter what proof you put forth in your videos. BY THE FRUIT YOU SHALL KNOW
All the proof are in your division! Look up under Mason Remey the history of all these people!
The Baha'is Under the Provisions of the Covenant don't have only 1 leader of the Cause, & that is the UHJ with the living descendant of King David as its President.
adamjacob9 I do not argue about my faith. I know in my heart you guys are misguided! All I can say is GOD HELP YOU ALL!
We will find out later by the fruits of the Un House of Justice. By making a division you are not helping your cause or the Baha'i Faith! So many have died for this Faith! Ultimately GOD's Message will prevail! What you are doing is wrong! May God Have mercy on you!
Thank you for praying that God help us all, as that is what everyone needs. Also, thank you for your prayer that God have mercy on me. This is the prayer of every believer for himself. I know God's message prevails.
I think you are mistaken about 1 thing. I don't subscribe to that U.N. pandering house on Golem Street, what you call the "UN House of Justice". I thought that was the man-made institution you were defending. Strange.
This video was made by two individual believers, neither of whom are the Guardian, Neal Chase.
The speaker in this video is a believer who accepts the UHJ with the Davidic King as its President.
The purpose of the Aghsan line of Davidic Kings is to act as the Point of Unity in the Baha'i world & the world at large to recognize the true UHJ & the true Kingdom of God on earth.
What are you referring to? I agree that much of scripture is parable & metaphor. Is there a particular point in this video that you disagree with or have questions about?
Baha'u'llah clearly proclaims himself as the Everlasting Father, & offers the scriptural proof to back up his claims. He is a descendant of King David seated upon the throne, making him by genealogical definition, a CHRIST. Christ is a title meaning "anointed male lineal descendant of King David"
Do you know what the greek text says in Matthew 24? The word "age" which you quote is "aeon", denoting a specific time period. Jesus refers the reader to Daniel, where the "abomination that makes desolate" is mentioned.
This "abomination" is the same "transgression of desolation" spoken of in Daniel 8:13. Daniel gives us 2300 days/nights, which according to scripture equals 2300 years until the "close of the age". This is counted from March 21, 457 BC & brings us to March 21, 1844.
I am glad there are a "2 stage" election and not a monarchy. We don't need another Pop or dictator. No more Jim Jones. No Mason Rimy or another Head priest. No, Thank you!
Faramz, I'm not quite following you. What's a "2 stage" election? And what leads you to believe the Guardian is the same as a Pope or dictator? The Guardian is a member of the UHJ, with a vote of one; he can be overruled by a majority vote and its deemed the will of God.
agah said: "ull recieve no more comments from me"
Nowhere in the explicit Baha'i text is Aghsan defined as only "blood lineage". This is extra to the Will & is therefore your personal erroneous addition to justify your non-acceptance of the Everlasting Covenant of God, which says that the throne line of King David will last forever (psalms 89).
As I asked another person earlier, please tell me where I can find in the writings the criteria the guardian must follow, including being a blood descendant of Baha'u'llah. Thank you.
There is no writing saying "blood descendant" The Will & Testament of 'Abdu'l-Baha is the source of the criteria for who is the guardian. The two-part criteria is:
1. He must be an Aghsan (son)
2. He must be appointed by the previous guardian within his lifetime
That's it. Mason Remey is the only person that fulfilled both criteria at the passing of Shoghi Effendi, being an Aghsan son of 'Abdu'l-Baha & appointed President & Head (Rais) of the IBC/UHJ by Shoghi in 1951.
wat are u on about? his not abdullbahas son. he does not hav a single drop of bahaullas blood in him. plus mason himself said that all the aghsans hav broken the covenant and are not qualified.
lol may god lead u to the right path. u should be ashamed of urself. and may God have no mercy on mason for dividing such a beautiful faith.
ull recieve no more comments from me. Bahaullah says 'eschew any fellowship with the ungodly'.
An adopted Son has all the rights of a natural son, including inheritance of Kingship.
Mason Remey was adopted by 'Abdu'l-Baha. This Sonship was acknowledged by Shoghi Effendi, who appointed Mason as the HEAD (RAIS) of the IBC/UHJ, the position that can ONLY be held by guardian.
In this way, Shoghi upheld his incumbent duty to appoint "another branch" as he had no sons of his own.
mason remey was one of the 27 hands of cause who actually signed that shoghi effendi did not establish a succesor, its a shame for somone who had such a prevelige to make such aligations on being the gaurdian. even his followers knew he suffered from dimentia.
You're obviously unaware of the what the criteria as set forth in the Will & Testament is for being the next guardian, otherwise you wouldn't be bringing up irrelevant pieces of information.
Mason is 'Abdu'l-Baha's Son & Aghsan.
Mason was appointed by Shoghi Effendi "within his lifetime"
Do you accept the Everlasting Covenant of God? Before you answer that question, be sure you know what the Everlasting Covenant is.
the guardian of the faith can only interpret the word of God and be from the family of Aghsan. the Aghsan all went against Shoghi Effendi, and the holy family etc. therfore, how can remey be the gaurdian if he could not speak arabic or persian or be a direct relative of Baha'u'llah?
"Whoso interpreteth what hath been sent down from heaven of Revelation, and altereth its evident meaning, he, verily, is of them that have perverted the Sublime Word of God, and is of the lost ones in the Lucid Book." -The KITAB-I-AQDAS
i always new the bahai religion would one day eat itself. just like all other cults and religions. how long before we have fundamentalist bahais?? infighting, it's what religion does best
Yeah man, this Baha'i Organization in Haifa is SO corrupt ! It's a new Vatican, a part of the World Order of the Anti Christ and the Illuminatis ! Soon I shall talk about this in French through the net ! Good video !
What makes this "so wrong"? Do you have anything to back that up with? Here we've put forth evidence to back up this perspective, & all you have is "You are so wrong".
Have you read the Book of the Establisher of the Baha'i Faith? You can find it in its entirety at entrybytroops dot org. It is mercy that led you to this video.
letter by shoghi effendi to believers 1957. refers to Hands of the Cause:'Chief Stewards of Bahá'u'lláh's embryonic World Commonwealth'."Chief Steward" definition is vital.
"It is incumbent upon the Guardian of the Cause of God to appoint in his own life-time him that shall become his successor"
"the Hands of the Cause of God must give their assent to the choice of the one whom the Guardian of the Cause of God hath chosen as his successor."
You're right, the definition of "incumbent" IS vital. It means that Shoghi had NO CHOICE but to appoint a successor in order to stay firm in the Covenant. This he did as explained in this video.
The last passage you quote was explained by Shoghi in Baha'i News to NOT mean that the Hands could overrule the decision of the guardian, as that would cause a conflict of authority.
Only the UHJ with both legislative (body) & executive (head) branches is "freed from all error". uhj dot net
Oh, I am sure he didn't appoint the GUARDIAN. He knew Abdul-Baha better than you, Covenant-breakers. He did it intentionally. Neither did the Hands give their assent. Now Aghsan is a male descendant, not adpoted son. And the descendant fo the Covenant-breakers (by S.Effendi) is your head now? Sorry, this is ONE BIG MISTAKE my friend. You still have time to repent and mend, if not - see the Writings of the Faith. Oh, the infalibility of UHJ is NOT conditioned on the presence of the Guardian.
And you still have not answered to my point that the Hands of the Cause that outlived their appointees kept their titles. Ibn-i-Asdaq remained a Hand of the Cause from the time of Baha'u'llah until 1928 during the Shoghi Effendi's ministry.
The Hands of the Cause were appointed for life. The "acting under the direction" and "under his shadow" portions are clearly there to show that their authority does not allow them to deviate from the orders of the Guardian.
All of this is truly IRRELEVANT in light of the FACT that the UHJ was already established as the FULL SUCCESSOR to Shoghi Effendi.
On March 2, 1951, when Mason was appointed as president, the word Shoghi used in both Farsi and Arabic was Ra'is (Head), the SAME word used in the Will to describe the guardian as the "sacred head [Ra'is]" of the UHJ.
It being irrelevant would be convenient in dismissing it, but it is not.
Your argument was that the Hands of the Cause did not hold any authority because they ceased to be Hands of the Cause when Shoghi Effendi died. This claim has been refuted with evidence that the lifespan of the appointee has nothing whatsoever to do with term of service as hand of the cause.
'Abdu'l-Baha explains that "The Hands of the Cause in this dispensation are not heirs of any name or title." The simple logic remains that Hands can't function without a Head, & that the new guardian would choose his own Hands, perhaps he would pick the same folks, perhaps not. The "Hands" took advantage of their "position" & WAY overstepped their bounds, as they have no real authority without direction from a living guardian.
Furthermore, I share no fellowship with you, I eschew it. I am here to refute the false claims that have been made publicly. To refer to me in a familiar fashion is grossly innappropriate. You are, in my eyes, an unbeliever, and in me you shall find harshness, as you have disbelieved in the words of the House and of Shoghi Effendi and of Abdul Baha. So call me by whatever name you please, but be under no delusion of any fellowship between us.
'Abdu'l-Baha said, "Do not distress or deny anyone by saying 'He is not a Baha'i.'" Calling me an "unbeliever" is innappropriate, while Baha'u'llah & 'Abdu'l-Baha teach me to have fellowship with all of humanity. I'm sorry if you don't like it.
I stated what my eyes behold you to be. Furthermore, Baha'u'llah says "eschew all fellowship with the ungodly." Muhammad also says "Fight those of the disbelievers who are near to you, and let them find harshness in you." Call me not by any familiar terms and I shall refrain from reminding you that you are distant to me.
I don't know what "familiar terms" you refer to, but I love you as I do everyone else, as Jesus said to even "love your enemy".
It's been so wonderful to see so many of you sans-guardian variety Baha'is peering Over the Wall of oppression that Baha'u'llah prophesied of. You should know that the true UHJ with the living Aghsan descendant of King David as its president has an Open Door policy. You're always welcome back home. uhj dot net
Also as to your claims that he broke from the faith when they "dissolved the IBC" are flawed. The IBC was only disbanded after the election of the Universal House of Justice in 1963 (elected, as required by Abdul Baha and Baha'u'llah, in 1963 as planned by Shoghi Effendi) whereas Mason Remey broke the covenant and ordered that the culmination of Shoghi Effendi's ten year crusade and the election of the House be halted before that time, in 1960.
In 1959, the "Hands" changed Shoghi's Plan to have the IBC evolve into a World Court (still appointed members) & instead planned for an elected IBC in 1961, leading up to the election of their headless house in 1963. This was no longer the IBC Shoghi Effendi had set up. Mason explained that he signed those documents in an attempt to uphold unity & not dissent until the time came when they would wake up.
Shoghi Effendi's Messages to the Bahá'í World - 1950-1957, page 7 would seem to indicate that Shoghi Effendi promoted the evolution of the International Baha'i Council into a "duly elected body"
First of all, nothing in that message "would seem to indicate" anything. It DOES indicate that the IBC would develop "into officially recognized Baha'i Court" and THEN transform into a "duly elected body" before its final "efflorescence into Universal House of Justice". This message clearly DOES indicate that the IBC is the same UHJ in an earlier stage of "development".
If he "went along" with them, as you say, then don't you mean "he lied in signed statements because the hands were doing what he wanted at the time?" Or do you have any explanation for him stating that Shoghi Effendi appointed no successor, and that he couldn't have as there were no aghsan alive that weren't covenant breakers?
If he lied about such a thing in order to conceal it, then that is taqiyya, which is forbidden. If he lied the second time, then he was lying about his claim.
This whole subject is irrelevant, as the guardians after Shoghi are NOT infallible, but are only one member of the UHJ, with no veto power. Lying doesn't disqualify someone from being the guardian. That is not in the Will & is your personal dogma.
"He that is appointed must manifest in himself detachment from all worldly things, must be the essence of purity, must show in himself the fear of God, knowledge, wisdom and learning."
Also we are not familiar so I would ask that you not speak to me as though we were.
Anyway, back to the points. The basis of your arguments are 1: shoghi effendi implicitly appointed a successor (denied by remey) 2: remey was an agshan (denied by remey) 3: the UHJ holds no authority without a guardian (denied by Abdul Baha) and 4: the Hands of the Cause hold no authority after the death of their appointee (denied by Abdul Baha, Shoghi Effendi, and Remey)
Mason explained that he "went along" with the "Hands" as they said they would continue with the evolution of the IBC. When they broke from Shoghi's Plan, he had no choice but to come forward with the truth. The Will & Testament is the final authority as the CHARTER of the UHJ, so yes, it MUST have a guardian. Provide evidence for your 4th point. Mason's opinion on this point would be irrelevant.
The evidence for my fourth point is clearly that the hands of the cause that were made hands before the guardianship were not stripped of their title when Abdul Baha died. They were appointed for life and were regarded by their titles well after the appointees had ascended.
Furthermore, present your evidence that the UHJ *must* have a guardian and that this is a promise from God, as you have claimed.
"By this body all the difficult problems are to be resolved and the guardian of the Cause of God is its SACRED HEAD and the distinguished member for life of that body... The legislative body MUST reinforce the EXECUTIVE..." W&T pgs. 14, 15
This passage shows clearly that the guardian is the Head (Executive Branch) of the Body (Legislative Branch) which together form the true UHJ (uhj dot net).
Shoghi Effendi was NEVER the "sacred head" of the UHJ. He was the "unique" guardian ruling independently. Mason was appointed as the HEAD [Ra'is] of the IBC/UHJ in 1951. The IBC/UHJ was Shoghi Effendi's successor, as it alone was to succeed him in conferred infallibility.
fuck baha'is !
you are crap !
normal baha'is or orthodox baha'is are the same crap !
RaymondTravesti 2 years ago
if this is true, how come mason reemy was the only one of 19 to make this statement/belief. the other 18, one which included Shoghi Effendi's wife, all agreed on the establishment of the Universal House of Justice. Only God can answer you, i as a theologist and historian can see how wrong you are. i pray for your soul
GinevraAngel99 2 years ago
This "foolish follower" disagrees with you.
anoose9 2 years ago
u expect us to believe this video with such a vile tone of voice, lack of humility, almost a glass full of idiotic beliefs...
although Baha'ullah taught us the principle of the independent investigation of the truth, I do not recall Him referring to listen to Covenant. breakers it is actually illegal.
it is not important to dwell upon these topics. we are hear to make the world a better place and we aint gona be doing that by letting life pass us by while we're sitting here debating on this
pinklovepoop 2 years ago
Last quote is from God (revealed in the Qur'an) and not from Muhammad (narrations known as ah-hadith). It would've been better to say it that way. And yeah, I know that it came out of Muhammad's mouth but we're all understanding of the actual Revelation from our Lord most high.
agreeableviews816 2 years ago
I like your core ideas
I don't like your organisation and the fact, that anyone, who does go against its head, is automatically a heretic and against God.
so in the end, you say that the Head, Shogdi back in 20th century, House of Justice right now, is almost the same as god
I hate this attitute
runn1ng 2 years ago 6
There's a great debate on which is the truth, both sides are saying that theirs are the truth.. Each sides try to influence others that they are the right one and inflicted hatred towards the opposing sites.. It's extremely sad... how a beautiful faith can be polluted by such unpleasant thoughts.. Why don't we accept & trust each other??? It will be a better world
MrVinspire 2 years ago 2
Just face the fact that Bahaism was founded by British agents who wanted to further divide and weaken Islam and the fiercely independent Persian Shia culture. They did the same thing with the Ahmadiyyah movement in India, Wahhabis in Arabia and they also funded the masonic Young Turks in the Ottoman Emp. Bahai is now a foundation funded NWO cult and nothing more. I doubt the supposed founder has any relation to the present organisation. Quite clever indeed.
alpidistra 2 years ago
You even have the name of the religion wrong. That doesn't bode well for the factual nature of anything else you say. Get some basic facts straight and you possibly will sound like you know what you are talking about.
The historically documented fact that Baha'u'llah (actual Founder of the Baha'i Faith) spent most of His life in tortuous conditions in hideous prisons and in exile, of course proves that he just did it for money and power, right?
Do your research. you just sound foolish.
bohemiandeborah 2 years ago
If you even bothered to read some of the Baha'i writings, you would be amazed how differently you would think towards the Baha'i faith and its followers. The facts that you stated above are nothing more than fake propaganda created by the Islamic republic of Iran to create hatred against the Bahai's of Iran and other countries. Baha'i people are one of the most kind and generous people you will meet. Please do some research as to what Bahai's believe in and you will be convinced.
MASH2222 2 years ago
well, lets get into it once again...
you know what both sides suck.
"If religion becomes the point of contention then better to have NO religion at all"
I am in favor of this for all ALL modern religions. DSIBAND then come back in LOVE and love only for there you will find God and not in the ramblings of your contending intellects.
MrRiggsinn 2 years ago
Yes. We agree on love. The heart responds to truth. That is fortunate, yes?
But, wow, just because people are ignorant we should throw out precious guidance from our immense, glorious, all knowing Source?
Check your bathwater for babies, okay? I'm worried about your offspring. Peace.
bohemiandeborah 2 years ago
Just checked out the Writings. Writings ten you nil
waiotahi52 2 years ago
The Hands of the Cause did what no other group in the history of religion has done.
They had the ability to take control of the Faith, but they instated the Universal House of Justice and refused to allow themselves to be eligible for its vote.
They have loyally followed the plans the UHJ has set out.
Read the statements of the UHJ. They are so beautifully aligned with teachings of Baha'u'llah. This would be impossible from power seekers. Everything they say is pure humility.
Abnormalized 2 years ago
Thank you for truth, fact, and sanity in this conversation.
bohemiandeborah 2 years ago
:(((((((((crazy people
kusztar 2 years ago 2
Ok point and case,
1. Shoghi Effendi NEVER WROTE A WILL, all of the Hands of the Cause including Mason Remey acknowledged this.
2. The Guardian MUST be of the bloodline of Baha'u'llah and must be a blood descendant of Baha'u'llah. Mason Remey was not an Aghsan, and there was never an eletction process as described by Abdu'l Baha as written
3. Mason Remey and the other Hands signed a document and issued a universal agreement that Shoghi Effendi had not appointed a successor.
HolyN0va 2 years ago 8
1. The Will & Testament of 'Abdu'l-Baha doesn't state that the guardian must leave a will, just that he MUST appoint his successor "within his lifetime"
2. Nowhere in the Baha'i writings is Aghsan defined as a "blood descendant", but rather as a son from the line of Baha'u'llah. An adopted son has all the rights & privelages of a natural son, including inheritance & kingship.
3. The Hands were a non-authoritative group. They had no power after the death of Shoghi Effendi.
adamjacob9 2 years ago
Comment removed
DrLight9 2 years ago
DrLight,
Do you really believe that ownership of property is the criteria for recognizing the truth?
There have never been divisions in the Faith, as the Covenant is clear. However, that doesn't mean that the majority cannot fall away from the Covenant.
Any so-called UHJ without the Davidic King seated as it's president is not Baha'u'llah's UHJ.
adamjacob9 2 years ago
sorryy but you have made a big mistake, if you did yourresearch you would nkow that the fonder of the Baha'i Faith was Baha'u'llah NOT this other erson yu have mentioned who i dont even want to say the name of !
If you only knew,,,, i feel so sorry for you, you will find out why in the next world :( So sad
vladimiraa 2 years ago
I'm sorry friend but it is you who are mistaken in your understanding of the message of this video. We didn't claim that Dr. Jensen was the "founder" of the Baha'i Faith for obviously as you pointed out it was Baha'u'llah who founded the Faith, his son who delineated the Covenant, and Shoghi Effendi who established the Administration. Then his "Hands" violated the Covenant & took the Faith hostage making it something other than intended. Dr. Jensen has reestablished the Faith & fixed the errors.
jeffmichaud999 2 years ago
He can't reestablish and fix any errors, there weren't any to begin with !!
vladimiraa 2 years ago
vladimiraa,
Perhaps you have misunderstood. Of course there were and are no errors in what Baha'u'llah, 'Abdu'l-Baha & Shoghi Effendi set forth. However, the FALLIBLE "hands" did make errors, and not on accident. They did away with the Davidic Kingship, the Aghsan line of guardians, sending the guardianship into exile. Dr. Leland Jensen has re-established what the covenant-breakers threw out, the IBC/UHJ with the Davidic King as it's Head [Rais].
adamjacob9 2 years ago
The passage "whoso disobeys him..."etc. is another plagarism from the Qur'an, one of many quotations from world scripture Baha'is fail to cite. The "Will" of Abdul-Baha is a forgery, which is immediately apparent to anyone who looks into its history. The founder of this faith truly had the spirit of his age, the angry child who must destroy all else until only his ego remains. His legacy is paranoia. Those who are aware of the truth prize it for itself, not for gain. How absolutely silly.
nantarctica 2 years ago
covenant breakers alert
According to the Will and Testament of Abdu'l-Baha, a Guardian must be a lineal descendant. Mason Remey had no such blood relationship with the Holy Family. Just as importantly, even if a Guardian is a lineal descendant, his appointment must be approved by the Hands of the Cause of God. Mason Remey had no such approval. Finally, Remey himself signed the document of the Hands accepting that there was no descendant of the Guardian
pinabarryscott1 2 years ago
pina,
Mason is the real & LEGAL son [ghusn] of 'Abdu'l-Baha. The definition is not confined to a blood relative. Where is that in the explicit text? Shoghi explained in Baha'i News, Feb. 1955, that the passage about the Hands assent in no way meant that the Hands could overrule the decision of the guardian, as this would provide for a conflict of authority.
adamjacob9 2 years ago
I didn't know this!!!
javedmahmood 2 years ago
This? This is just the tip of the iceberg!
The information in this video is actually comprised of the introduction for the book Entry By Troops written by the Establisher of the Baha'i Faith, Dr. Leland Jensen. You can read it or download it for free at:
entry by troops (dot) o r g
Feel free to write Adam or me if you have any questions or concerns, or would like more information. Have fun.
jeffmichaud999 2 years ago
Well could you please tell me are you in the mainstream bahai faith or a different Branch/fraction?
I know very little about this new faith. could you please enlight us.
javedmahmood 2 years ago
The is no reason for the UHJ to lie.
wattsite 2 years ago
ZZEE33eeettteee3, how come you can't provide the writings we asked you for to support your positions? How come you can't quote the writings for any of your assertions? Ad hominen is your only rationale? Pathetic. Do you possess any writnigs? Do you read them? Have you seen the part where SE explains the administration would be "permanently mutilated" without an executive branch (GPB p.248)? You imaginary man-made UHJ is bfallible and outside the covenant; that puts you out there too. Good luck.
jeffmichaud999 2 years ago
As I said your gardian is THE GOLDEN CALF created by INFIDELS to atract & satisfy UR love for: confusion,disunity, spritual & intelectual dishonesty,contempt,chalenge to the autority,love 4 distroction of "Stublish Order",etc.
Your gardian is ANTICHRAIST of the Universal House of Justice in Haifa on the mountaine of God & you the ANTICHRISTS FOLOWERS.
you R nothing but REINCARNATION of ,AZAL & MUHAMMAD ALI ,AHMAD SOHRAB .
You dont need to read any more,
You need to see a psycologist.
ZeEEte 2 years ago
ZeEEte,
The Guardian of the Cause of God CANNOT by definition be "antichrist", as the Guardian is the Christ of the Baha'i World Order, being the "anointed male lineal descendant of King David", which is the very meaning of the word "Christ" or "Messiah". Are you aware of WHY Baha'u'llah is the 2nd Christ? It's because He came seated "upon the throne of David". This Kingship is promised by God to continue forever on earth (psalms 89). Do you accept the Everlasting Covenant of God?
adamjacob9 2 years ago
Comment removed
thegreatcheesedemon 2 years ago
ZeeEttt33eete, if you ever find the administration Hands invented fails to live up to your expectations you're always welcome to give the one that was established according to the all provisions of the covenant. There is a UHJ with the living Guardian at it's head, established according to all the explicit instructions. Your imaginary UHJ has no head or even an executive branch at all, ehich Shoghi declared was "essential".Clearly you have further reading to accomplish, so get to it.
jeffmichaud999 2 years ago
That is "IF" there is a Gurdian He shall BE the head of UniversalHouse of JUstice,without interfaring in the functions of the House.
BUT,there was not a suitable,worthy,Godly,Selfless,pure,
GHUSN remaining 2 B apointed as the Gurdian.
So He should make by all means any "THING" as a physical head. Imagening the faith as shape of a human boady , the "HOUSE" is "THE HEAD" & is functioning. Thanks to BAHAULLAH & HIS HOSTS (Concours on high)
What ells do u want?
THIS HEAD NEEDS NO "TUMOR".
ZeEEte 2 years ago
ZeEEte,
While I understand that you don't accept the Everlasting Covenant of God that the Davidic Kingship will endure forever (see psalms 89 & Proclamation of Baha'u'llah, pg. 89) in the person of the living guardian, the institution of the guardianship & the person of the living guardian do nevertheless continue to exist today.
Again, do you have that verse to support your earlier comment that Baha'u'llah is the head of the uhj? Thank you.
adamjacob9 2 years ago
I burst out laughing when you said that you're member of the BUPC founded by convicted rapist Leland Jensen who thought himself to be the promised Joshua. I suppose your new leader is Neal Chase who made 18 predictions none of which came to pass? It is quite sad to talk about prophecies being literal but then changing it into spiritual when member start leaving the group. You're just life a UFO-cult.
Faroedad 2 years ago
Faro,
Dr. Leland Jensen, Establisher of the Baha'i Faith, was not a convicted rapist. That is completely false.
You are correct that he fulfills prophecy as the Promised Establisher of the Baha'i Faith, Joshua (Jesus) the High Priest as spoken of in Zechariah. You've obviously received some education on this subject, & are now doing with those pearls as is expected, rolling around in the mud with them.
May God bless you & may you continue to do your part.
adamjacob9 2 years ago
The Head of the Universal House of Justice is BAHAULLAH.
u have been use 2 worshipe idols & u cant imagine the power of the COVNENT work in spirit. u have been manipolated all ur lives by prists & mulas & rabayes so 2 imagine a body fonctioning with spritual intentions without any one as "HEAD" 4 u is imposible so:
u had to carve & make the calfe (which by the way is not even from gold ) & worshipe IT ,it is adiction of ,from and 2: the old world orde. it will soon B forgoten.
ZeEEte 2 years ago
ZeEEte,
Would you care to quote from the Baha'i writings when in support of your assertion?
It's funny, because I've always read in the Will & Testament that
"the guardian of the Cause of God is its [UHJ] sacred head [Rais] and the distinguished member for life of that body [UHJ]" W & T pg. 14
Can you please point out the verse you are referring to? Thank you
adamjacob9 2 years ago
Ur coment isactualy a projection & reflection of ur feling of inadecuency in both areas u mentioned imposed on u by ur superiors 2 rube u from ur selfe confidence ,the same superiority complex became a trap for naive,arogant,presumptus masan rimy since he found himself ,"smarter & more educated" then other Hands not 2 mention his venity when he use 2 make refrence to his hight.
This is not a jurny that u can make by material education.
Read the book of certitute .
I wonder if u can get it .
ZeEEte 2 years ago
ZeEEte,
It's clear you're not here to reason, just to argue. You can have your headless house, & we'll stick with the UHJ with the Guardian as its President. God's blessings to you.
adamjacob9 2 years ago
Dont pray for me pray for your self,but you are one of those that AbdulBaha refars to by saying"the worse enemies of the faith are in the faith......"that is since you think u r stil "in"
But it is not so .A heart filled will LOVE OF BAHAULLAH can not,willnot,shouldnot chalenge THE UNIVERSAL HOUSE OF JUSTIC.
ZeEEte 3 years ago
your uhj is fallible. it was established prematurely, without the require executive branch, and without adherence to most of the prerequisite instructions. it was a creation of the covevant-breaking hands, and now you are their champion. your proof by assertion that we must obey this fallible body exposes the weakness of both your intellect and education.
jeffmichaud999 2 years ago
You are not only dishonest ,stupid too.
ZeEEte 3 years ago
ZeEEte,
May God bless you. I thank God for you.
adamjacob9 3 years ago
O my loving friends! Consort with all the peoples, kindreds and religions of the world with the utmost truthfulness, uprightness, faithfulness, kindliness, good-will and friendliness, that all the world of being may be filled with the holy ecstasy of the grace of Bahá, that ignorance, enmity, hate and rancor may vanish from the world and the darkness of estrangement amidst the peoples and kindreds of the world may give way to the Light of Unity.Such are the attributes of the sincere!-Abdul-Baha
jeffmichaud999 3 years ago
U R as the jewes to Christ,Christians 2 Muhammed,they 2 The Bab ,Babis 2 Bahaullah,and after Bahaullah suporters of muhamad ali had obeying the Master & after the Master some had obeing Shoghi Efendi.
cas"you are unable to see the truth 4 what thy hands hath wroth"
Cas courupt souls want things 2 B acording 2 their pety mind & intelectual dishonesty which R the result of filty life, &4 The kingdome of God there R tests which only pure in heart can pas.
So it hs been and so it shall be.
ZeEEte 3 years ago
ZeEEte,
Yes, there are TESTS, and the primary tests in the cause always revolve around the covenant and the "changing of the guard", so to speak. And so it was, that a majority became as "dead wood" fit for the fire, when they went along with the non-authoritative group known as "The Hands" instead of turning immediately to Shoghi Effendi's successor, the IBC/UHJ with the guardian as President/Executive Branch.
God is so merciful, that he's allowing a re-take of this test, & it's open-book.
adamjacob9 3 years ago
As 2 the judjment of people :we R asked not to asociate with the unGodly,& to vote for the best member of our comunith every Ridvan,& to mary the one who has the same gole or caracter as ourselves and 2 protect our children & youth from bad company,&...
all these requiers sense & act of judjment of others faith & caracter
So stop using the redundent christian terms which by the way has led the entire world to prmesquity and moral laxity and consequently spritualy dead . REASON U DONT GET IT.
ZeEEte 3 years ago
ZeEEte,
What do you mean "christian terms"? Do you mean the FACT that Baha'u'llah is a descendant of King David & the Return of Christ? Because Baha'u'llah Himself wrote about these matters. What "redundant christian terms" are you referring to please?
adamjacob9 3 years ago
Any time you people cote from central figurs of the faith to advance your arguments you resembele exactly a pig playing with pearls.the froiut of beliving in any of the central figures is OBEDIENCE TO THE UNIVERSAL HOUSE OF JUSTIV\CE.
ZeEEte 3 years ago
here you go, repeating what you were told again. which writing is that from exactly?
jeffmichaud999 3 years ago
In Kitabi Aghdas,nowere Bahaullah talks about REJALE BITULADL being void and inefective if a worthy Gardian couldnot be apointed. He forsees a day , that the only auturity is BEITUL ADL.
Be trustworthy ,u will grasp mystries of God ,other wise you are nothing but a unscropolos lawyer .
If you trouly belive in the power of the centre of the covnent you would have not even for a secend belive He has left the couse to be in the wrong pat since over 50 years ago,obviously you have no FAITH.
ZeEEte 3 years ago
Obviously only God can judge another's faith, so why would a spiritually evolved soul like yourself make such a ridiculous comment? The Master once said that if two souls disagree and become disagreeable about it, then they are both wrong. You have clearly come here with your righteous indignation to be disagreeable. Sadly for you, your cause will find noone to indulge this with.
jeffmichaud999 3 years ago
You are like pigs playing wiyh pearls,you need to be honest and pur hearted to discover mystries of God.A bunch of perverts an liers and backbiters and dishonest people are domed to ignorance and error as they dont deserve better .See in what deep ..... you are and what a glorious condition is the state of the couse with the guidence of the Universal House of Justice on the mount carmel.Bahaullah would have not let the victory come to falshood,He has promised and that is the secret of the triomf
ZeEEte 3 years ago
Wrong again.
jeffmichaud999 3 years ago
As far as I remember the covenant unto Israeliates with god was " cutting off the foreskin of their males "DICK" , to distinguish themselves from gentiles. Thinking god will favour them if they do so.
Did not know that the same practis also became a creed among the bahais. Very funny reviving old barbaric rituals of dead sea dwellers in this day and age.
Abensaba 3 years ago
abensaba,
Whatcha talkin about?
adamjacob9 3 years ago
Hunger and thirst fo ledership has allwayes been source of division and conflict,but not in thisage we have the bounty of God the UNIVERSAL HOUSE OF JUSTICE and its infalibility doese not depend on the physical presence of a Gardian,Bahaullah Himselfe is watching over IT.
ZeEEte 3 years ago
z, you are quite confused about these matters, and arre clearly just repeating what you we told. of course the uhj's infallibility is dependant upon conditions, and having the guardian as its "sacred head" is #1. don't you what the writings EXPLICITLY say about this?
jeffmichaud999 3 years ago
Whe no ghusn amoungst Aghsan has remeined faithful to the faith,what should the beloved Gardian write? just the polimic of having a willand testement left so that every day some body claiming the real one is with hime?
ZeEEte 3 years ago
zeeete, no where does it say his appointment was to be in a will. that was an invention of the hands to bolster their violation of the covenant. now you are here championing this violation. who told you of these lies?
jeffmichaud999 3 years ago
You must be drunk with the wine of ambision and self promotion and ego and lack of faith and honesty .
ZeEEte 3 years ago
Shoghi Efendi knew there willnot be a Gardian after him,He even chosed to pass away far away from holy land so that some idiots will not make story that He called so and so to his room.He would have called the person you think was spesial to london prior to His passing if that person was special.
and allthis fabrications wich you think is logical is nothing but result of impurities that have invaded your lifes .
He would have simply write a testment and apoint the next Gardian,HE DID NOT.
ZeEEte 3 years ago
ZeEEte,
If you believe that Shoghi Effendi had foresight of his own death, how can you believe for a moment that he would not fulfill his part of the Covenant as stipulated in the Will & Testament, that he "must choose another branch [ghusn]", and that it is "incumbent" upon him to choose a successor "within his lifetime". If, as you assert, he knew he was going to die at that time, how can you for an instant believe that he would knowingly violate the trust which 'Abdu'l-Baha had placed in him?
adamjacob9 3 years ago
zeeete, no where does it say his appointment was to be in a will. that was an invention of the hands to bolster their violation of the covenant. now you are here championing this violation. who told you of these lies?
jeffmichaud999 3 years ago
jeffmichaud999, ahester862 - Allah-u-Abho! Thank you for your replies.
Baqtriana 3 years ago
Service and worship of god...
What is your point?
ormonclark 3 years ago
Nope, that's not what the word religion means. The word religion comes from the latin 'religio' which means 'to bind together'. The word ligament comes from this same root word. The point is that religion is intended to 'bind together' the hearts and minds of the people. Your criticism of 'religion' is misguided, for if you were to examine it closer you'd see that clearly you're throwing out the baby with the bath water.
jeffmichaud999 3 years ago
causing divisions is in the nature of religion.
Bahais Vs. covenant breakers,
Jews vs. gentiles,
Christians vs. not saved Christians
Muslims vs. Infidels..My parents INHERITED their "faith" as those before them.Most "believers" believe because their parents did! Most Bahai's are educated and bright.Unfortunately, like any other religious groups, they keep a closed mind, not to other religions, but to the concept of the necessity of religion. Unfortunately religion is a big part of the problem.
ormonclark 3 years ago
ormon,
Do you know what the word "religion" means? I'm not talking about the feelings the word brings up in the majority, but the actual meaning?
adamjacob9 3 years ago
History shows that religion is the source to most of humanity's DIVISIONS.
Wage peace...
Say no to religion, Please
ormonclark 3 years ago
I absolutely agree. I would clarify that the world's *organized* religions create it's conflicts. i.e. the religions run by men who make their living off of being "leaders" of their respective faiths have one and all proven themselves unfit to lead, and corrupt from within. The Baha'i Faith, on the other hand, is free of this oppression, as a clergy class is forbidden, and it's an entirely unorganized organization with every believer equal to the other. Thanks for sharing.
jeffmichaud999 3 years ago
History shows that people are the source of all hate, and are ever so blind to peace and happiness.
ShugglesStuff 2 years ago
While that's a fairly obvious observation, you haven't offered any insight into the solution. Also, the exact opposite is equally true: history shows that people are the source of all good, ever so blind to the evil that lurks. These are both inane statements; what purpose do either serve?
Let's stay on topic. What did you think of the video?
jeffmichaud999 2 years ago
Don't say something and run off, mister ;D
Well, lets say that we all ignore the goodness of mankind, accepting all of this discord. We are only but those that are doomed, correct?
But what if we pull ourselves out of that hopeless pit, stand up and say something against this ignorance. Only good things are too come!
But this way, it's harder. People have to commit to being kind and wise as well as giving up many pleasurable and material things. I feel it's 'cause we're all.. un-enlighted? LOL
ShugglesStuff 2 years ago
I'm very sorry if that comment made NO SENSE what so ever lol.
ShugglesStuff 2 years ago
Apology accepted.
jeffmichaud999 2 years ago
I think it's a very good video. What don't you understand? As I was saying, your religion, and all religion is bull plop. This of course is my opinion. Are you going to call me bad names now? Maybe you should question things more?
I do........Therefore I have no religion.
The "red flare" should go up when choosing to believe in any faith.
bigboy45454545 2 years ago
bigboy, the only thing you've managed to establish is that you think "religions are bull plop". So what? You haven't presented any reasons, facts, or even theories why. Congratulations on your new found dogma. I'm sure atheism is going to be very fulfilling for you. Clearly your time here talking down to others has been quite well spent; do you feel better about yourself now?
So do you have any comments to add about this particular video, or is this just a troll visit?
jeffmichaud999 2 years ago
JCouraged, The last time I checked, Christanty is split, fractured, discombobulated, 38,000 times. Could you please show me The Unity in that. What is the point your trying to make in this post. The Bab (the gate) was sent by God to usher in the Bahai Faith. Jesus himself said his "Return" would be through "The Gate" in the "Glory of God" (Baha'u'llah)
ahester862 3 years ago
this is not life. just words. you arent gettiing very far and you have next to no support as i can see here. arent making much of a mark. get a life, it would be best for you
OrnamentProductions 3 years ago
orna,
What's the problem, friend? Are you genuinely suggesting that you know what's "best for" us? We've received positive response from people all over the globe who have taken the next step in their personal investigation of this information. Anything can seem to be "just words" until a human being decides to use their God-given intellect to meditate & investigate. What happens next is beyond words, but you can't teach spirituality. All we can offer is proof & evidence of God's Plan.
adamjacob9 3 years ago
Your comments here are rather amusing, seeing as how on your user page you fancy yourself a "seeker" of sorts, who's determined to find all that is beautiful in the world; and yet you repeatedly return here to harass our teaching effort? You're quite a walking contradiction, aren't you? How exactly does it benefit your "journey" to put others down? What comfort does it bring you to speak down to your fellow travelers this way?
jeffmichaud999 3 years ago
i would never waste this much time of my life answering to this many people and make religion this complicated. period. good luck in this fruitless act of --words--
OrnamentProductions 3 years ago
Howdy friend; welcome back. Thanks for the negative vibes & put downs :)
I can appreciate your perspective, as you elaborated upon it in earlier visits, but until any of your videos ever get viewed by more than a couple dozen people you won't be faced with having to worry about what commentators contribute, will you? As these videos are viewed by thousands of folks, we feel that we should respond to the few comments posted per day as possibly hundreds of folks will read them who won't comment.
jeffmichaud999 3 years ago
What's truly strange is that this would be of any interest to a Christian apologist such as yourself in the first place. This is all common knowledge to the Baha'is at large, so it's amusing that you present this as if you're going to shatter the faith of the faithful. And the myriad of details you're so utterly confused about are so vast that I couldn't imagine where to begin. Nevertheless this has absolutely nothing to do with this video. Please stay on topic.
jeffmichaud999 3 years ago
jcour,
How does any of this relate to the video?
adamjacob9 3 years ago
Indeed; these days are now at hand. Thanks for sharing.
jeffmichaud999 3 years ago
I'm sorry, whether I agree with this or not, it is promoting disunity.
jjpatton88 3 years ago
Abdul'Baha warns that attacks on the Covenant are always defended by promoting "unity". The Hands did just that when they "seized the helm of the Faith" in 1957; they made a call for unity and by doing so were justified in their violations.
genraldisarray 3 years ago
No need to be sorry friend. But I am curious when you feel 'unity' took a preferred position over the Covenant? You see the Hands called for unity before they perpetrated the Great Violation in 1957. Now we have 6 million unified Covenant Breakers as a result. Unity is no substitute for Truth.
jeffmichaud999 3 years ago
The corpses of the founders of this religion have barely gone cold in their graves and already we have a soap opera tin pot power struggle raging at the top
This is the religion that wants to supersede all religions? Its already dead in the water and proved itself just as silly as all religions that came before it. Religion is over folks crushed by science- face it, forget about it, and join the 21st century.
fctchk 3 years ago
This argument is a classic case of throwing out the proverbial baby with the bathwater. Science hasn't "crushed" God has it? No, in fact sub-atomic physicists are now being forced to admit that an intelligent "Creator" of some kind is operating behind the scenes. It is this Creator that has sent the founding fathers of all the world religions. These religions may have been seized by corrupt hearts after-the-fact, but that hardly negates their messages, does it? You argument isn't sound. Regards.
genraldisarray 3 years ago
This is so factually incorrect and contradictory. Make up your own history why don't you?
willbande 3 years ago
Can you show where the contradictions or factual inaccuracies are? If there's either of these in the video we'll be the first ones to admit it and correct them. Thanks.
genraldisarray 3 years ago
Shoghi Effendi who claimed that their family was descended from Jesse, David's father. The claim is made that when King Jehoiachin and the Jews were in exile during the Babylonian captivity, which began with the first invasion of Nebuchadnezzar in 606 BC, many of the Jewish royal family intermarried with the native Persian royalty!? But the last Persian King died before he could have children! (Bwhahahaha)
meaculpa9r 3 years ago
Well well. RICH! How ya doing. Using a fake ID I see. Think you can get away with it?
I'll give you ONE chance. Ever hear of the Exilarchs or Bostanai? Do a bit of research before making a donkey of yourself. God covenanted with David that his line will endure FOREVER (psalms 89). Also, by your version of events, nobody could ever be seated upon the throne of David, so how do you anticipate the coming of the Everlasting Father of Isaiah 9?
1 chance.
adamjacob9 3 years ago
WRONG AGAIN! It was Jesus who told his apostles to look to Daniel 8 when asked they him what would be the sign for his coming & of the closing of the age (Matt 24:15). Surely if Jesus told them to look to this verse from Daniel to understand when he'd return he wasn't implying he would return in "171-165BC" was he? This is preposterous. It is Jesus himself that explained it's a prophecy. You do accept Jesus' testimony don't you? Why would you reject the very prophetic timeline he pointed to?
genraldisarray 3 years ago
Rich, it's really a shame you can't find something productive to do with your time. I usually enjoy discussions with Christians here, but this isn't a discussion as you haven't once responded to any of our replies, but rather create endless strings of comments, most of which are bumped to the back pages and never see the light of day. Why you must recycle old posts 10 and 12 times each is strange and leaves me concerned for your well being. Manic-depression is treatable Rich; don't postpone joy.
genraldisarray 3 years ago 3
This video is a rant for whiners and Covenant Breakers from the false faith.
meaculpa9r 3 years ago
If Joel B. Marangella is the guardian then why doesn't he make his own statement to the public. and if the Baha'i faith is wrong then why has it been growing so fast when your so called faith is still so small? Wouldn't the true faith of God have more success in guiding souls to their beloved than the false one?
lunchboxbringa 3 years ago 2
lunch,
This video is not saying that Joel has anything to do with the guardianship. He's a wannabe. The BUPC which seeks guidance from Baha'u'llah's UHJ with the Davidic King as its President, is constantly growing, with more & more coming on board the Ark of the Covenant from out of the violation of the "hands". This is why the group out of haifa has been suing us in court for the last many years, only to be denied in Geneva & now in Chicago. They want us shut up. Sore losers.
adamjacob9 3 years ago
After listening to all of you, what I have to say is this: There is only one Baha'i faith! All of you are misguided! Ask yourself which covenant breakers are you following Mason Remey, Joel Bray Marangella, Donald Harvey or Pepe Remey. The proof is the root of all of your divisions. You can't change that not matter what proof you put forth in your videos. BY THE FRUIT YOU SHALL KNOW
All the proof are in your division! Look up under Mason Remey the history of all these people!
pinabarryscott 3 years ago
pina,
The Baha'is Under the Provisions of the Covenant don't have only 1 leader of the Cause, & that is the UHJ with the living descendant of King David as its President.
Who is your Executive Branch?
adamjacob9 3 years ago
adamjacob9 I do not argue about my faith. I know in my heart you guys are misguided! All I can say is GOD HELP YOU ALL!
We will find out later by the fruits of the Un House of Justice. By making a division you are not helping your cause or the Baha'i Faith! So many have died for this Faith! Ultimately GOD's Message will prevail! What you are doing is wrong! May God Have mercy on you!
pinabarryscott 3 years ago 2
pinabarry,
Thank you for praying that God help us all, as that is what everyone needs. Also, thank you for your prayer that God have mercy on me. This is the prayer of every believer for himself. I know God's message prevails.
I think you are mistaken about 1 thing. I don't subscribe to that U.N. pandering house on Golem Street, what you call the "UN House of Justice". I thought that was the man-made institution you were defending. Strange.
adamjacob9 3 years ago
that's right pinabarryscott, but there's also this guy called Sodomaghian and of course Leland Jensen.
The one behind these videos by user adamjacob9 is Neal Chase
masudrules 3 years ago 3
masudrules,
This video was made by two individual believers, neither of whom are the Guardian, Neal Chase.
The speaker in this video is a believer who accepts the UHJ with the Davidic King as its President.
The purpose of the Aghsan line of Davidic Kings is to act as the Point of Unity in the Baha'i world & the world at large to recognize the true UHJ & the true Kingdom of God on earth.
adamjacob9 3 years ago
Can you please delete this video? It is causing disunity.
jjpatton88 3 years ago
you should not take the bible so literally, it is but metaphors
brilliant1990 3 years ago
brilliant,
What are you referring to? I agree that much of scripture is parable & metaphor. Is there a particular point in this video that you disagree with or have questions about?
adamjacob9 3 years ago
Rich,
Baha'u'llah clearly proclaims himself as the Everlasting Father, & offers the scriptural proof to back up his claims. He is a descendant of King David seated upon the throne, making him by genealogical definition, a CHRIST. Christ is a title meaning "anointed male lineal descendant of King David"
adamjacob9 3 years ago
Rich,
Do you know what the greek text says in Matthew 24? The word "age" which you quote is "aeon", denoting a specific time period. Jesus refers the reader to Daniel, where the "abomination that makes desolate" is mentioned.
This "abomination" is the same "transgression of desolation" spoken of in Daniel 8:13. Daniel gives us 2300 days/nights, which according to scripture equals 2300 years until the "close of the age". This is counted from March 21, 457 BC & brings us to March 21, 1844.
adamjacob9 3 years ago
I am glad there are a "2 stage" election and not a monarchy. We don't need another Pop or dictator. No more Jim Jones. No Mason Rimy or another Head priest. No, Thank you!
Faramz 3 years ago
Faramz, I'm not quite following you. What's a "2 stage" election? And what leads you to believe the Guardian is the same as a Pope or dictator? The Guardian is a member of the UHJ, with a vote of one; he can be overruled by a majority vote and its deemed the will of God.
jeffmichaud999 3 years ago
how many believers do you have?
bigmannn80 3 years ago 2
Exactly! Thank you! :)
Riowyn 3 years ago
Remey was not a descendant of Baha'u'llah,
he was NOT of the Aghsan. Adopted children of Siyyids,
Afnan, and Aghsan do not adopt the status of blood lineage.
Shoghi Effendi was the only Aghsan which met the qualifications
and was furthermore mentioned specifically in the Will and Testament.
agahjoon89 3 years ago 2
agah said: "ull recieve no more comments from me"
Nowhere in the explicit Baha'i text is Aghsan defined as only "blood lineage". This is extra to the Will & is therefore your personal erroneous addition to justify your non-acceptance of the Everlasting Covenant of God, which says that the throne line of King David will last forever (psalms 89).
God has not broken His Promise as you suggest.
adamjacob9 3 years ago
As I asked another person earlier, please tell me where I can find in the writings the criteria the guardian must follow, including being a blood descendant of Baha'u'llah. Thank you.
Riowyn 3 years ago
Riowyn,
There is no writing saying "blood descendant" The Will & Testament of 'Abdu'l-Baha is the source of the criteria for who is the guardian. The two-part criteria is:
1. He must be an Aghsan (son)
2. He must be appointed by the previous guardian within his lifetime
That's it. Mason Remey is the only person that fulfilled both criteria at the passing of Shoghi Effendi, being an Aghsan son of 'Abdu'l-Baha & appointed President & Head (Rais) of the IBC/UHJ by Shoghi in 1951.
adamjacob9 3 years ago
wat are u on about? his not abdullbahas son. he does not hav a single drop of bahaullas blood in him. plus mason himself said that all the aghsans hav broken the covenant and are not qualified.
lol may god lead u to the right path. u should be ashamed of urself. and may God have no mercy on mason for dividing such a beautiful faith.
ull recieve no more comments from me. Bahaullah says 'eschew any fellowship with the ungodly'.
agahjoon89 3 years ago
agah,
An adopted Son has all the rights of a natural son, including inheritance of Kingship.
Mason Remey was adopted by 'Abdu'l-Baha. This Sonship was acknowledged by Shoghi Effendi, who appointed Mason as the HEAD (RAIS) of the IBC/UHJ, the position that can ONLY be held by guardian.
In this way, Shoghi upheld his incumbent duty to appoint "another branch" as he had no sons of his own.
adamjacob9 3 years ago
mason remey was one of the 27 hands of cause who actually signed that shoghi effendi did not establish a succesor, its a shame for somone who had such a prevelige to make such aligations on being the gaurdian. even his followers knew he suffered from dimentia.
agahjoon89 3 years ago
agah,
You're obviously unaware of the what the criteria as set forth in the Will & Testament is for being the next guardian, otherwise you wouldn't be bringing up irrelevant pieces of information.
Mason is 'Abdu'l-Baha's Son & Aghsan.
Mason was appointed by Shoghi Effendi "within his lifetime"
Do you accept the Everlasting Covenant of God? Before you answer that question, be sure you know what the Everlasting Covenant is.
adamjacob9 3 years ago
the guardian of the faith can only interpret the word of God and be from the family of Aghsan. the Aghsan all went against Shoghi Effendi, and the holy family etc. therfore, how can remey be the gaurdian if he could not speak arabic or persian or be a direct relative of Baha'u'llah?
mrjames9999 3 years ago 2
"Whoso interpreteth what hath been sent down from heaven of Revelation, and altereth its evident meaning, he, verily, is of them that have perverted the Sublime Word of God, and is of the lost ones in the Lucid Book." -The KITAB-I-AQDAS
AcidoNZ 3 years ago
i always new the bahai religion would one day eat itself. just like all other cults and religions. how long before we have fundamentalist bahais?? infighting, it's what religion does best
lalacurious 3 years ago
Yeah man, this Baha'i Organization in Haifa is SO corrupt ! It's a new Vatican, a part of the World Order of the Anti Christ and the Illuminatis ! Soon I shall talk about this in French through the net ! Good video !
rastapresident 3 years ago
You are so wrong. May God have mercy on your soul, if you still have one.
Jazminisis 3 years ago
Jazmin Isis,
What makes this "so wrong"? Do you have anything to back that up with? Here we've put forth evidence to back up this perspective, & all you have is "You are so wrong".
Have you read the Book of the Establisher of the Baha'i Faith? You can find it in its entirety at entrybytroops dot org. It is mercy that led you to this video.
adamjacob9 3 years ago
letter by shoghi effendi to believers 1957. refers to Hands of the Cause:'Chief Stewards of Bahá'u'lláh's embryonic World Commonwealth'."Chief Steward" definition is vital.
"It is incumbent upon the Guardian of the Cause of God to appoint in his own life-time him that shall become his successor"
"the Hands of the Cause of God must give their assent to the choice of the one whom the Guardian of the Cause of God hath chosen as his successor."
(Abdu'l-Baha,The Will and Testament,p. 11)
orangedevil99 4 years ago
devil,
You're right, the definition of "incumbent" IS vital. It means that Shoghi had NO CHOICE but to appoint a successor in order to stay firm in the Covenant. This he did as explained in this video.
The last passage you quote was explained by Shoghi in Baha'i News to NOT mean that the Hands could overrule the decision of the guardian, as that would cause a conflict of authority.
Only the UHJ with both legislative (body) & executive (head) branches is "freed from all error". uhj dot net
adamjacob9 4 years ago
Oh, I am sure he didn't appoint the GUARDIAN. He knew Abdul-Baha better than you, Covenant-breakers. He did it intentionally. Neither did the Hands give their assent. Now Aghsan is a male descendant, not adpoted son. And the descendant fo the Covenant-breakers (by S.Effendi) is your head now? Sorry, this is ONE BIG MISTAKE my friend. You still have time to repent and mend, if not - see the Writings of the Faith. Oh, the infalibility of UHJ is NOT conditioned on the presence of the Guardian.
sajmonowski 4 years ago
saj,
I can see that you are firm in your rejection of Shoghi Effendi's plan for the 4-stage evolvement of the IBC/UHJ with the guardian as president.
May God's mercy find you.
What are you talking about "descendant of the Covenant-breakers"? You are not educated in these matters.
Furthermore, you have no right to declare anyone a Covenant-breaker, did you know that?
Read pg. 15 of the Will - it MUST have both branches to bring Peace with Justice.
adamjacob9 4 years ago
adopted son? wow, never heard about that! (around 1:30)
TROLLPL 4 years ago
TROLLPL,
You can learn everything you need to know about it at this link:
bupc dot org/test-of-god dot html
Of course, replace the word "dot" with a period (.)
adamjacob9 4 years ago
And you still have not answered to my point that the Hands of the Cause that outlived their appointees kept their titles. Ibn-i-Asdaq remained a Hand of the Cause from the time of Baha'u'llah until 1928 during the Shoghi Effendi's ministry.
The Hands of the Cause were appointed for life. The "acting under the direction" and "under his shadow" portions are clearly there to show that their authority does not allow them to deviate from the orders of the Guardian.
PeterJDeer 4 years ago
Pete,
All of this is truly IRRELEVANT in light of the FACT that the UHJ was already established as the FULL SUCCESSOR to Shoghi Effendi.
On March 2, 1951, when Mason was appointed as president, the word Shoghi used in both Farsi and Arabic was Ra'is (Head), the SAME word used in the Will to describe the guardian as the "sacred head [Ra'is]" of the UHJ.
adamjacob9 4 years ago
It being irrelevant would be convenient in dismissing it, but it is not.
Your argument was that the Hands of the Cause did not hold any authority because they ceased to be Hands of the Cause when Shoghi Effendi died. This claim has been refuted with evidence that the lifespan of the appointee has nothing whatsoever to do with term of service as hand of the cause.
PeterJDeer 4 years ago
Pete,
'Abdu'l-Baha explains that "The Hands of the Cause in this dispensation are not heirs of any name or title." The simple logic remains that Hands can't function without a Head, & that the new guardian would choose his own Hands, perhaps he would pick the same folks, perhaps not. The "Hands" took advantage of their "position" & WAY overstepped their bounds, as they have no real authority without direction from a living guardian.
adamjacob9 4 years ago
Furthermore, I share no fellowship with you, I eschew it. I am here to refute the false claims that have been made publicly. To refer to me in a familiar fashion is grossly innappropriate. You are, in my eyes, an unbeliever, and in me you shall find harshness, as you have disbelieved in the words of the House and of Shoghi Effendi and of Abdul Baha. So call me by whatever name you please, but be under no delusion of any fellowship between us.
PeterJDeer 4 years ago
Pete,
'Abdu'l-Baha said, "Do not distress or deny anyone by saying 'He is not a Baha'i.'" Calling me an "unbeliever" is innappropriate, while Baha'u'llah & 'Abdu'l-Baha teach me to have fellowship with all of humanity. I'm sorry if you don't like it.
adamjacob9 4 years ago
I stated what my eyes behold you to be. Furthermore, Baha'u'llah says "eschew all fellowship with the ungodly." Muhammad also says "Fight those of the disbelievers who are near to you, and let them find harshness in you." Call me not by any familiar terms and I shall refrain from reminding you that you are distant to me.
PeterJDeer 4 years ago
Peter Deer,
I don't know what "familiar terms" you refer to, but I love you as I do everyone else, as Jesus said to even "love your enemy".
It's been so wonderful to see so many of you sans-guardian variety Baha'is peering Over the Wall of oppression that Baha'u'llah prophesied of. You should know that the true UHJ with the living Aghsan descendant of King David as its president has an Open Door policy. You're always welcome back home. uhj dot net
adamjacob9 4 years ago
Also as to your claims that he broke from the faith when they "dissolved the IBC" are flawed. The IBC was only disbanded after the election of the Universal House of Justice in 1963 (elected, as required by Abdul Baha and Baha'u'llah, in 1963 as planned by Shoghi Effendi) whereas Mason Remey broke the covenant and ordered that the culmination of Shoghi Effendi's ten year crusade and the election of the House be halted before that time, in 1960.
PeterJDeer 4 years ago
Pete,
In 1959, the "Hands" changed Shoghi's Plan to have the IBC evolve into a World Court (still appointed members) & instead planned for an elected IBC in 1961, leading up to the election of their headless house in 1963. This was no longer the IBC Shoghi Effendi had set up. Mason explained that he signed those documents in an attempt to uphold unity & not dissent until the time came when they would wake up.
adamjacob9 4 years ago
Shoghi Effendi's Messages to the Bahá'í World - 1950-1957, page 7 would seem to indicate that Shoghi Effendi promoted the evolution of the International Baha'i Council into a "duly elected body"
PeterJDeer 4 years ago
Pete,
First of all, nothing in that message "would seem to indicate" anything. It DOES indicate that the IBC would develop "into officially recognized Baha'i Court" and THEN transform into a "duly elected body" before its final "efflorescence into Universal House of Justice". This message clearly DOES indicate that the IBC is the same UHJ in an earlier stage of "development".
adamjacob9 4 years ago
If he "went along" with them, as you say, then don't you mean "he lied in signed statements because the hands were doing what he wanted at the time?" Or do you have any explanation for him stating that Shoghi Effendi appointed no successor, and that he couldn't have as there were no aghsan alive that weren't covenant breakers?
If he lied about such a thing in order to conceal it, then that is taqiyya, which is forbidden. If he lied the second time, then he was lying about his claim.
PeterJDeer 4 years ago
Pete,
This whole subject is irrelevant, as the guardians after Shoghi are NOT infallible, but are only one member of the UHJ, with no veto power. Lying doesn't disqualify someone from being the guardian. That is not in the Will & is your personal dogma.
adamjacob9 4 years ago
"He that is appointed must manifest in himself detachment from all worldly things, must be the essence of purity, must show in himself the fear of God, knowledge, wisdom and learning."
Lying and dissimulation hardly embodies purity.
PeterJDeer 4 years ago
Pete,
Where in the Will does it give YOU the right to judge whether or not those qualities are present in the individual?
adamjacob9 4 years ago
Also we are not familiar so I would ask that you not speak to me as though we were.
Anyway, back to the points. The basis of your arguments are 1: shoghi effendi implicitly appointed a successor (denied by remey) 2: remey was an agshan (denied by remey) 3: the UHJ holds no authority without a guardian (denied by Abdul Baha) and 4: the Hands of the Cause hold no authority after the death of their appointee (denied by Abdul Baha, Shoghi Effendi, and Remey)
Was there something I missed?
PeterJDeer 4 years ago
Pete,
Mason explained that he "went along" with the "Hands" as they said they would continue with the evolution of the IBC. When they broke from Shoghi's Plan, he had no choice but to come forward with the truth. The Will & Testament is the final authority as the CHARTER of the UHJ, so yes, it MUST have a guardian. Provide evidence for your 4th point. Mason's opinion on this point would be irrelevant.
You missed the boat, friend.
adamjacob9 4 years ago
The evidence for my fourth point is clearly that the hands of the cause that were made hands before the guardianship were not stripped of their title when Abdul Baha died. They were appointed for life and were regarded by their titles well after the appointees had ascended.
Furthermore, present your evidence that the UHJ *must* have a guardian and that this is a promise from God, as you have claimed.
PeterJDeer 4 years ago
Pete,
"By this body all the difficult problems are to be resolved and the guardian of the Cause of God is its SACRED HEAD and the distinguished member for life of that body... The legislative body MUST reinforce the EXECUTIVE..." W&T pgs. 14, 15
This passage shows clearly that the guardian is the Head (Executive Branch) of the Body (Legislative Branch) which together form the true UHJ (uhj dot net).
adamjacob9 4 years ago
"For life."
He died. He left no successor.
If he had appointed a successor that successor would be the head of the House. But he didn't.
PeterJDeer 4 years ago
Pete,
Shoghi Effendi was NEVER the "sacred head" of the UHJ. He was the "unique" guardian ruling independently. Mason was appointed as the HEAD [Ra'is] of the IBC/UHJ in 1951. The IBC/UHJ was Shoghi Effendi's successor, as it alone was to succeed him in conferred infallibility.
adamjacob9 4 years ago