Erich Fromm interviewed by Mike Wallace (3 of 3)

[kirohadjiev]

This interview is just great- the questions, the answers, all of it. Thank you so much for putting it here- some fresh air in the smog.

[176rafael]

I like Fromm because he is able to think speak in a broad different issues, he is a fantastic intelligent man! He is a mind beyon our times and Wallace time.

[Simbelmyne13]

Fromm is brilliant! It's amazing how relevant all of this still is.



[Needs2Know]

I looked up socialism on wikipedia and got confused with so many different kinds of socialism. Very confusing!

[thespacialone]

Utterly brilliant. And troublingly prescient.

A recommendation...

/watch?v=FFtGwBsKgKs

[beemrdon52]

Does anyone notice how much more "intelligent" television was back then (50's to mid 60's).

That was a great interview by Mike Wallace of CBS news.

Can you imagine an interview like that happening today, on a major network, no less?

I don't even see stuff like that on PBS anymore.

No, now we're on to "Reality" TV and Fox "News and the Antiques Road Show"

[beemrdon52]

The reason we don't have an educated population is that it does not suit the interests of the wealthy class. "keep um fat, dumb and happy". Americans, do your duty: consume, consume, consume....And then die.

[Arcadian0769]

That was an awesome interview, the guy (Fromm) is a genius and it still utterly relevent.

[kurtilein3]

... continued from my last comment

now while these 10 people will do different tasks according to their preferences and abilities, they all believe i the project as a whole, and all major decisions are done democratically. that would be a socialist enterprise, and some of them actually exist within the larger context of a different society and manage to compete. and each new person you hire becomes equal to the ones that are already there. rules, but no leader. thats what socialism really is.

[kurtilein3]

i would describe the socialism fromm describes this way: 10 friends get together to open a bakery or small manufacture of bicycles or a little startup that does web design, and each owns 10% of the company, all get the same pay per hour, all decide how much money to pay out as wages and how much to save or to invest in the company and how its invested/spent. (i need a second comment for this)

[kurtilein3]

this is interesting on so many levels.

i wonder how big the risk is that he took when calling himself a socialist contained at this time, and if a less famous person would have gotten away with it or would have experienced negative consequences. for decades being branded a socialist meant you couldnt get a job in hollywood, even for famous and talented people, whose careers were shattered or delayed for decades.

and today they try to discredit obama by calling him a socialist (which he isnt).

[Believerification]

This is like football jock talking to genius: Wallace doesn't even comprehend the answers to the questions he's asking. And how many times does Fromm look at him like, "You stupid SOB, are you going to ask me next what "the" means!"

[ivan1087]

Thank you for the upload, gunman806!

[ManACanadian]

In a mind set where Profit is god and creed is greed, is it a surprise that the average Western brainwashed individual, regardless of colour, race or gender, does not understand Fromm?

We forgo true emotional happiness and connection to LIFE, in every moment, in order to get a pay check or buy a shiny car. Wow!

As we get older, we crave, or show off, bigger toys. "And the one with the bigger toys is happier". Not so if one considers the impressive sale of antidepressants in the affluent world.

[macsm]

Thanks for posting these interviews, they are really worth their weight in gold. I had no knowledge of Erich Fromm, thanks again...

[MeltedPearls]

Such a huge difference between voluntary cooperation and enforced Communism.

I hate to see them lumped together. We have lots of voluntary cooperation in this country (US), as evidenced by yard sales, farmers markets, and Craigslist.

[ameriCAN3008]

Okay, so people make mistakes. People are always going to make mistakes. This is ineveitble. But the fool is the man who points fingers. The hero is the man that lives his life as an example. Who truly lives what he believes. And this is much harder to do rather than to sit in your chair and point fingers at people.



[davecourtney08]

A visionary. A lot of his words have come to pass and i'm sure many more will in the future too.

[seth917]

@davecourtney08

A socialist.

[arzoyan]

The interviewer is plainly an apologist and paid pimp of the CAPITALISM the wage slavery of immense humanity for the private gain and greed of a minority , He is that kind of human livestock, the kind you let them graze in the field and goes to the owner for its illusory freedom . He is not interested in Eric FROMM s enlightening talk.

[eleuthromania]

Compared to today's nit-picking, personality-obsessed, souundbite-saturated political interviews this was a breath of fifty-year old fresh air. How I wish time was taken on mainstream TV to discuss, intelligently and constructively, big ideas such as Fromm and Wallace do here. Are we really getting so dumb that nothing like this is ever on the mainstream?

[Diosibundo]

This is pretty amazing... his prediction of the Societ Union becoming identical to us didn't carry through in Russia, but it certainly is what is happening in China

[arzoyan]

E. Fromm is a great intellectual, a genuine socialist. Socialism is a society of based on production for need rather than profit, he explains and that ex-Soviet Union was STATE CAPITALIST DICTATORSHIP and U.S. capitalism is ideological manipulation and distortions of the working class with the illusion of freedom and democracy for the private gain and greed of a tiny elite Capitalists. We need a sane society of cooperation across the world for our common needs and well being in harmony ...

[salahudeenabduladl]

@arzoyan Thanx!!! Brilliant analysis and synopsis of Fromm's purview.

[andyx1205]

Soviet Russia is also a very interesting case. Czarist Russia used to be very religious and superstitious, as in the Czar of Russia was believed to have divinity, it's kind of like putting the Pope in charge a huge country, people literally worshiped the Czars.

Stalin would have been crazy to not take advantage of this society that saw the leader as God-like, and he did take advantage and created a personality cult. The crazy Stalin, defeated Hitler, but massacred many people too. Crazy man.

[stevenmhughes]

@andyx1205 Well put, but I don't believe Stalin did away with the god-state. I think he epitomized it.

[andyx1205]

Slavery still exists in America.

Except this time, the slaves are able to pick their masters every election day.

[katia1239]

when was this interview done? It's an amazing document - so incredibly applicable to today's shallow, consumistic world! What he says about Marx is so true: everybody talks about him but nobody has read him. Thank you so much for sharing this with us!

[BeadStallcup]

Erich Fromm was one of the greatest social philosopher.

[mprat001]

It's fascinating to compare this interview with Wallace's Ayn Rand interview around the same time. You would think that Fromm, a socialist who yearns for more genuine spirituality, and Rand, a hard-boiled capitalist who detests religion as anti-rational, would have little common ground, and yet, somehow, they seem to be attacking the same problem (the alienation of man from himself and from other people in modern society, etc.). Anyone know if those two ever debated or critiqued each other?

[asmodeus585]

You know how the old saying goes: "Great minds think alike". ;)

Btw, I don't think that Fromm was a 'typical socialist' and Rand definitely wouldn't call the system we're in as 'capitalistic'.

[StevanAz]

I actually postulated the same idea after watching this myself. It would be an interesting conversation.

[maxdazeglio]

With all the respect, I think Mike Wallace just didn't get Fromm's point. I don't think he even understood what Fromm was talking about. Fromm was not really talking about a sociological issue, he was talking about the adaptation of man in the society from a psycological point of view.

[watchzeitgeist]

so the news used to be vaguely ... news-oriented.

[glopur0]

I think Fromm had a lot of food things to say about personal relationships but it's important to remember that when he says "capitalism" what he really is talking about it State Capitalism (a light fascism which steadily increases in violence/corruption).

Look up Anarcho-Capitalism and Voluntaryism friends! Murray Rothbard, Ayn Rand, Lloyd DeMause, and Stefan Molyneux are key!

[jruizdemena]

to have the possibility of watch these videos make me think the great avance which internet has made! we are very lucky

[MopDMTBARTL]

Do you want freedom / liberty? Or socialism?

With socialism - you become a natural resource of the state. And they will tell you what to do, how to do it and when to do it. And if for any reason they decide they no longer need you as kissinger puts it - then we become USELESS EATERS.

youtube: "01/12 - Alex Collier - Interview - April 9, 2009"

It was the STATES that created the Federal Gov't - not the other way around

[stevenmhughes]

I think it is noteworthy that socialism today has a strong tendency to attract those who don't believe in spirituality or God, so how can it revive our spiritual lives?

[stevenmhughes]

I have to say that, like Mike Wallace, I agree with his diagnosis but I disagree with his cure. Socialism, as defined by Karl Marx, unless I misunderstand him, is a repudiation of private property rights and the creation of a state that owns everything and is responsible for the welfare of the citizenry. How can socialism be considered anything less then the very definition of a managed society?

[asmodeus585]

Wasn't Karl Marx rather a communist?

[stevenmhughes]

Communism is a descendant of socialism. Communist Russia did after all call itself the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics. Do you see socialism and communism as being two different things? Id very much like to hear your thoughts on the subject if you do (and I dont mean that cynically).

[lindmusik]

Well, North Korea calls itself "Democratic people's republic of Korea" and they are not democratic and it's not the people that is in control of society. So you shouldn't claim that Soviet was socialist just because it calls itself socialist.

[stevenmhughes]

Good point. China calls itself The People's Republic of China and it definitely isn't a republic and it sure isn't controlled by its people, but the Russians thought they were socialists and they obviously studied the subject and were passionate about it.

[lindmusik]

There should definately not be a state that controls everything. As Fromm says in The Sane Society, working for state bureaucrats is in some areas even worse than working for owners of capital. You can read in a lot of 19th century socialists' works that the main point is that the workers control the capital. Not that the state owns everything. The state should only be in charge of roads, railroads, hospitals, schools, and maybe in poor countries food supplies. The Soviet System was horrendous.

[stevenmhughes]

I guess this is where we differ. I would consider a CEO a "worker". I would not consider a government bureaucrat a worker. To me, who should own what is not a matter of how much money a person has. It is a question of whether the government controls the capital or households do. I'm persuaded that this current crisis has given yet more examples as to why governments should not control the economy or be in charge of large amounts of discretionary funds.

[lindmusik]

I live in Iceland and here the banks were privatized and given free hands some 10 years ago. The owners completely went out of control, speculating and investing with people's loans. Now they are mostly to blame as to why the crisis in Iceland is so severe. So there's an example why banks should not be in private hands. And before I was talking about "working for state bureaucrats", not that state bureaucrats are workers. In my opinion, the employees should democratically control the companies.

[stevenmhughes]

That's interesting what happened in Iceland. I think that's where law and order comes in, which is a natural government role. Governments shouldn't try to run the economy but they should uphold fairness such as banning dangerous products and striking down unconscionable contracts. I think a lot of the marketing tactics that private firms have been using qualify as unconscionable.

[stevenmhughes]

Employees democratically controlling companies may sound good on paper but in practice the control ends up in the hands of a handful of elites. I believe people should control their own property, not someone else's. How bad is the crisis in Iceland? Is it worse than in Canada?

[stevenmhughes]

I'm curious, why do you feel the government should control schools? Do you believe that education should be state controlled? Or is it a question of access to education?

[lindmusik]

I am definately against the opinion of private schools. Private enterprise needs a profit from somewhere. In the case of schools, this means that every kid in school has to be profitable, lucrative. The whole idea is bizarre. I want democratic schools where children learn critical thought, not some Coca-Cola sponsored production plant for an obedient future work-force.

[stevenmhughes]

I can respect that. There are, however, five sectors (not just two, public or private). They are the public sector, the private sector, the not-for-profit sector, the ecclesiastical sector, and the household sector. Would you be in favour of not-for-profit schools?

[lindmusik]

Iceland was very badly affected by the crisis. The national debt is sky high. Before this happened, the "top shots" were spending the money like there was no tomorrow, buying private jets and let 50 cent and Elton John play at their birthdays. This is so unethical and degenerated, especially in a world were people are starving and there might be a danger to our future lives because of global warming. I am in favor of not-profit schools and a market-socialist system in some sectors.

[Diosibundo]

@stevenmhughes

How about DEMOCRATICALLY controlled by the community the school is a part of? Or is that too much to ask in a democracy?

[asmodeus585]

Karl Marx himself ridiculed socialists, so it's obvious he must have differentiated between them. Communism was much more radical, praised revolutionary ways of destroying capitalism rather than just slowly reforming it as socialism indicated. Communism didn't praise 'hard work' as much as socialism did. At least that's my impression.

[andyx1205]

@stevenmhughes Well, Communism is a descendant of socialism, yes, it does not however mean that the two ideologies are equal. Just as how one can argue that Nazi eugenics is descended from Darwinism, it does not mean that everyone who believes in evolution is a Nazi. Socialism preceded Communism and even preceded Karl Marx himself.

Nonetheless, I don't see why we can't pick and choose out of Karl Marx's works just as how we pick and choose from the Bible and exclude the violent parts..

[stevenmhughes]

@andyx1205 What parts of Karl Marx's works would you pick out?

Fair point about Socialism and Darwinism though. Not all of them are like Stalin or Hitler.

[lindmusik]

Yes, but the solution he proposed was very different from the so called communism in the Soviet Union and elsewhere. Erich Fromm has some good critique of Marx in "The Sane Society" though. That Marx was first driven by humanist thoughts, but later forget them in favour of economic theory and "Das Kapital". So Fromm does definately not read Marx without a critical eye.

[nickdeli21]

There is always change. When capitalism fails, socialism is born. When socialism fails, communism takes reign. When communism becomes too oppressive, capitalism comes back into the picture. Everything is transitory. Utopia does not exist, only being comfortable with change exists.

[lindmusik]

The question whether utopia exists is in some respect not relevant. The big question is: what is progress? The people of the world has shown great progress science, music, litterature, and more. Slavery is abolished in rich countries, but exists in exploited states. After recent crises there's more regress than progress in the world. But of course it is no utopic illusion to believe in progress and a future without starvation or wars. As long as the atomic bomb doesn't kill us all before that.

[gogmagog666]

@lindmusik

The slaves are so well educated by the state that they wouldn't think to revolt. At least with slavery in the past eons, the master had to feed, clothe, and house them..however poorly.

[sariane]

This man is so far beyond most people's ability to refelect on our country. We spend millions on NASA and Defense but spend so little on Health and Human Services, and Education.

[shizleconjuror]

@sariane eh, not really 100% true, we spend more on education per child then any other country in the world

[mayurasana]

I wish Ayn Rand and Erich Fromm would have had an open debate on the Mike Wallace show. Their philosophies are so diametrically opposed. It would have made a pretty good debate.

[rring88]

I argued today that the Soviets was not communism because it was State Capitalism and they balked at me. Also isn't Communism is a stateless society?

[mayurasana]

True communism is a stateless non authoritarian/autocratic society. That model would never work on a mass scale in today's world. Psuedo-communism is basically the authoritarian Stalinesque model.

[destroso]

Brilliant!

[ssballs]

Wow,for this man to say that during or shortly after McCarty's reign of terror.

[mayurasana]

The Billy Bob Thorton interview gets over 10000 comments and these brilliant videos by Fromm only get around 15-20. That is really sad.

[ccahuay]

yes man you're right this is really sad...

[eyesoverskies]

that is because the brainwashed souls cannot understand this intelect. they are part of this oligarc's plan already and refuse to admit it, nor do they have the capability to.

so how can we expect them to comment either way?

[mayurasana]

you have a good point!!!

[serbaroo1]

Fromm was a genuis

[mayurasana]

I agree with mattwion. Journalism has been destroyed.  Journalist would not be asking questions like these nowadays. How can you expect Wallace to really understand? Fromm was way ahead of his time!!!! At least Wallace gave this man the floor and is asking the questions. Check our Wallace's interview with Ayn Rand. Pretty interesting.

[mattwion]

What it said is that no news person would ask questions like this today. Nor would there be a guest like Fromm. What happened to journalism? It's been destoryed!

[mayurasana]

Mike Wallace might not get it, but he is a damn good interviewer in my opinion. He is really poking and prodding Fromm in order to get at more of his great ideas and insight. Fromm, by the way, is a genius. Very prophetic.

[crazypaul5]

Great Video, thank you for posting it!!!!

[PearlThePrimitivist]

think you very much for this! fromm was a brilliant man.

[marcuse68]

thank you very much for posting this important interview.

people today have the same lack of understanding - relating to what (humanistic) socialism really means - a lack of understanding Wallace shows in this conversation. Fromms words are prophetic, Wallace doesn't get a thing.

[anthonycotillo]

mike wallace is a fucking retard

[nikson666]

That idiot is insulting Fromm! Crazy!

[colombian18]

This is an amazing video. Thankyou very much my friend.

[Staubdumm]

Look out how the interviewer get's panic when Fromm talks about capitalism and advocates libertarian socialism... :)

[lkj0803]

Wow! Filmed in 1958 and his predictions came top pass.