@ the people replying negatively to this video, If you do not agree with the teachings of the Catholic church WHY are watching a Catholic priest COMMENTING on HHS mandate. What do you think he is going to say "This is a great mandate, the bishops are just over reacting." ?
Should employers also be forced to cover sex change operations for the transgendered? After all, Obama and co. could easily frame it in terms of "sexual health." And they wouldn't dare "discriminate" against LGBTs, wouldn't they? Should male enhancement also be covered? If Sen. Boxer claims to fight for women's health, what about men's health?
If contraceptives should be "free," how about cholesterol-lowering medications, antidiabetic drugs, vaccines, and other drugs that treat REAL diseases? Besides, why not make everything "free?" Oh, right: Obama is paying back his Planned Parenthood-type supporters, that's why contraceptives have to be number one! BTW, nothing is "free." Others pay for what others obtain "for free." And that's socialism.
The ones bullied are religious objectors, and the bully is the Obama administration. Where are they who chant "separation of church and state?" If they want to keep the church out of the state, they should also want to keep the state out of the church. The bishops are not forcing a theocracy. Obama, however, is forcing an atheocracy.
"To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of
opinions which he disbelieves and abhors, is sinful and tyrannical." -Thomas
Obama is 100% correct on this one. If religious organizations want federal funding, they have to play by the rules and cover basic healthcare needs of women. No one is forcing them to accept federal funds. They are simply greedy and misogynistic at the same time.
@Senehtsotara How is birth control a health care need? Will a woman's health decline if she uses birth control? Actually, her mental and physical health is more likely to suffer as a result of using it. And what about the health of the baby in her womb? Some of the birth control pills currently covered by Obamacare can cause abortions. Religious organizations want federal funding to help people, to feed them, to house them, to clothe them, to educate them, to nurse them back to health.
@Senehtsotara Then I guess I'm not an idiot. But you're not going to convince anyone with your response. Can you provide a more compelling answer? How is birth control a health care need? What does it cure, pregnancy? Is pregnancy a disease?
@rolandrtx Pregnancy is certainly a healthcare concern, both for the mother and for the child. That's so obvious that I feel silly typing it. Only you are suggesting that all healthcare concerns are "diseases." They are not. Once you get past that reductive and false viewpoint, there is no problem here. Pregnancy involves healthcare services and costs; what could be more evident?
We Pro-Choice people should support a bill requiring all women considering becoming nuns to submit to a trans vaginal ultrasound probe. "Ridiculous!" "Medically unnecessary!" you say? So is forcing a trans vaginal ultrasound probe on women seeking an abortion.
The First Amendment is being violated when religious organizations impose their backward beliefs on others. You don't get to deny people basic healthcare when you're receiving taxpayer funding for it.
On Friday, a broad coalition of religious organizations filed an amicus brief supporting [this mandate] that disproves any claim that the faith community opposes it. The brief includes a number of major religious denominations, including the United Methodist Church, the United Church of Christ & the Presbyterian Church. The brief’s signatories also include a wide range of Catholic groups: Benedictine Sisters, Boerne, Texas; Congregation of the Sisters of Charity of the Incarnate Word, Texas, etc
@thereisaseason Hilarious. The leadership of all three of those churches is notoriously leftist in orientation and the UCC is hardly identifiable as a Christian church at all.
Whatever the case, the support the Catholic Church receives from them or any other set of religious institutions is utterly irrelevant to the question at hand.
@smmclaug75 Not relevant? Politically, the fact that various sects within the Catholic Church are NOT aligned with the its fundamentalist wing, is, by definition, signifcant. "THE" Catholic Church is not as unified as many would have it be. These are clearly a group of tired old men who don't want women to enjoy sex. Patently transparent. And what the hell does "the UCC is hardely identifiable as a Christian church at all" mean?!? Who the hell are you to assert a sanctimonious thing?
So what should a 13 year old girl who misses her period for 4 months straight and then gets it for a month straight do? What should she do if her period symptoms are so bad she is bed ridden and can't go to school? If her parents are low income, and work for a Catholic organization should she made to SUFFER?
Should we make Muslims exempt from murder charges in the case of honor killings? If we don't isn't that an attack on our religious freedoms too?
A "religious" objection isn't necessarily an intelligent objection. More likely, it's an outmoded one cloaked in mystical obscurantist BS.
Exactly the case here. Even 98% of Catholic women report using birth control, and the human population is now 7 billion. We have been fruitful and multiplied and all that. It's time now for the Catholic Church to grow up and face the realities of the modern world.
p.s. Rasmussen? Everyone knows that's a skewed, far-right pollster.
@Senehtsotara The west is in a birth dearth. Europe is in a demographic. winter. That 98% figure is being investigated. I don't gobble up everything I read like a garbage disposal. Do you? The First Amendemnt is being violated. Let's make Muslims eat pork, Jehovah's Witnesses get blood transfusions, and vegetarian Seventh Day Adventists eat meat.
@pwthcim The real problem is that the 98% figure, if it was correct, would totally undermine the entire rationale of the mandate. If 98% of Catholic women use contraception, then there CAN'T BE ANY PROBLEM WITH ACCESS TO CONTRACEPTION IN THE FIRST PLACE. So the whole point of the mandate is revealed for what it is--an attempt to smother and destroy any and all opposition, any and all effective religious practice.
@Senehtsotara The CBS/NYT poll didn't mention that religious institutions might object to the mandate. Rasmussen and Pew polls did, and their results are in favor of the bishops in a 5:4 ratio. CBS and New York Times are leftist news sources, so it's not surprising if they didn't include essential details in their polling question so that their poll results will be skewed in favor of Obama.
The UNITED STATES OF AMERICA must be doing fine today if the top news story is NOT jobs or the national debt, but rather, do we all have enough access to enough condoms. In terms of the federal govenment, YES it's becoming bigger, more powerful, more controlling because Obama wants to change the US into a nanny goverment that intrudes on everything and regulates every person. Obama wants to DECREASE people's opportunity and choice in regards to their self-reliance and independence.
When Obama altered the bill to shift the onus to the insurance company for funding it is now the church that are drawing line in the sand to force people to half to choose between the views of the church or accept policies that are suggested by government I hope the church looses (again)
@LiberalElitistMedia Government does not "suggest" anything. What a pathetic weasel word. Just admit you're talking about forcing the Catholic Church to pay for sterilization, abortofacients, and contraception, and be done with it. The idea that it is the Church who is "forcing" anything on anyone is utterly risible. You simply have no concept of what freedom in this country is all about.
@smmclaug75 I can not find my post so I don't know exactly how to reply. The Catholic church should have woman's health care available as should anyone else.. I do not understand how one religions faith based beliefs deserve any more exemption then some other religions rights to honor kill their daughters or deny life saving medical procedures to children because of their "faith' LOL
Obama is 100% correct on this one. If the religious organizations want federal funding, they have to play by the rules and cover basic healthcare needs of women. End of story.
@msrepodude I am so glad not to be you. The thought of having to look at yourself in the morning each day makes me feel sorry for the self-revulsion and nausea you should be feeling. However, I am impressed by the quantity of bigotry (antiCatholic, antiLatino) and profanity you were able to concentrate in one paragraph must have taken all of your mental ability to accomplish...Cheers!
The mackerel-snappers did this to themselves. 54% of pew-warmers voted for Barry and 60%+ of clergy did so. The Catholic bishops will suck Barry's dick because they want a constant flow of wetbacks to fill the aisles, and so will support Beaner Amnesty.
The only controversy the Catholic church needs to worry about is how they can continue to collect money from businesses and parishioners, tax free, only to use it to pay hundreds of millions in settlements for harboring pedophile priests. And they're worried about some woman's right to reproductive health products? How about those hard-on pills they don't mind paying for.Hypocrisy is a religion of man! Always has been, always will be.
Father...please, please do a piece on the great evil of contraception in the United States. We all know that it is a terrible, terrible thing to let women decide when to have babies. You must defend the position of the Roman Catholic Church and make sure that Barack Obama NEVER allows women to control their reproduction! Please do a piece on this! Save babies in the United States!
@strugglingtobecathol You missed the entire point of the video. Far out, what is wrong with Liberals? The video is addressing the point that a secular government should not be allowed to force its ideology onto the Church. So if you're an employee of a Church-run School or Hospital, how is it then reasonable to expect to be given something that is against their teachings? Unreasonable, of course. And if you have an issue with the Church's doctrine, then you shouldn't be working for them. Simple.
@HrMerrlol Of course, I agree! If someone works for the holy Catholic Church, they shouldn't expect to receive help to do something sinful. And we know that women really shouldn't be able to limit their babies anyway. Such a thing is so very, very sinful. I do think that our country would be so much better off if the Catholic Church was in control as it used to be in the old days. If you didn't agree with the holy Church, you were put on trial, and you were executed if you didn't behave.
@strugglingtobecathol The Church does not oppose family planning - it opposes any means that interrupt the full act of intimacy, as designed by God. It upholds that God designed sex for a purpose: UNITY in love for one another (not selfish lust); LIFE/LOVE GIVING (giving of one's ENTIRE self to the other, not holding back the fertile capacity while offering only the capacity for pleasure); and CONSUMMATION of the wedding vows.
@UTLBify This is just reactionary fatalism, along the lines of "If god intended humans to fly, she would have given them wings." Contraception is here to stay. Grow up and get over it.
@strugglingtobecathol The church proposes NFP, which doesn't remove fertility from sex. The couple abstains from sex during fertile periods and thereby keeps the bond of the 3 components of sex in tact. Birth control dissects the components of sex (leaving out fertility) and poses the risk of using sex for mutual self gratification, rather than mutual self giving, and this makes it a selfish act which is not of God's design.
I was the only male in the highest level Women Studies class at mu university. I went that far with it because I needed electives and I love history, and I enjoyed learning about women's history. However, what I also learned is that at the heart of the feminist movement is a hatred for men, particularly white men like their fathers. Bascially, they hate their fathers. I'm not making this shit up.
@MamoDad Way to stereotype!! Of course there are priests who are guilty of abuse in the Catholic church...just like there are guilty protestant ministers...and uncles, and dads, and grandfathers all over the world. Child abuse is not limited to, or synonymous with the Catholic Priesthood - it exists everywhere. The fact that scandal exists is not so shameful as the fact that some of the "good guys" defend and protect the abusers from receiving justice - these are the ones to criticize.
@janinemunson Not to go off topic on this thread, but More was a royal administrator and duty bound to follow the law as it stood in his day. He did try to persuade heretics non-violently if he could. Many others, Catholic and Protestant, did the same then and later. It is the admirable quality of any person, and not his or his era's defects, that ought to be emulated.
The Catholic Church got into this mess by equating government wealth redistribution with charity. It supported bigger government not realizing that it was encouraging the confiscation of wealth via taxation. Forced taxation is not charity. It helped to create a beast that needs ever more redistribution to survive as over half the people expect something from government. Now the beast wants something from the Church – abortion services – as a means to make more women dependent on government.
Anti Catholic and Atheists push this for obvious reasons.. They are blinded by their hatred towards the Church... In doing so, they are advocating tyranny... That's right! Tyranny. This isn't about religion. This is about government overstepping their reach and forcing PRIVATE organizations (religious or not) to provide specific products and services to people... Judging by some of the foolish comments below, I'm sure I will be the next one to be attacked...
Whether I agree or not, I always am enriched from listening to Fr. Barron's cogent analyses of events. One question I do have is - are the bishops in the USA ready to call their confreres in Europe to task for partaking of their universal health care systems which I'm sure do require reproductive health services for their people, including contraseption, sterilization and abortion? What does this mean for moral unity in the Church?
I have no problem about contraception. Especial about casual relationships that needs contraception since long long time ago. I absolutely have no problem about that for no abortion will be needed. Just like porns now-a-day that you're bombing by them but you have choices not buying them. Women should have rights to choose.
To end with, it's because of all the good the Church has done, and can continue to do, that I would defend her to the last gasp. I doubt that our secular friends could really replace her many necessary and vital activities, if they remained open minded enough to consider it carefully. But defend her temperately, with humor. Thomas More' approach comes readily to mind.
Well said my friend. But I think there is more to be said. I think the world being produced by our secular friends will ultimately be one that is not as God free as one might think. The supreme throne is bound to be filled by someone or something that I believe will ultimately leave us all yearning for some good old fashioned religion. The freedoms we have and the values we share did not fall from the sky. They emerged from a Judeo-Christian view of the world. We need to resist secularism.
@Pi10sco Thomas Moore might have used humor - he was laughing all the way to the "heretic" burnings he advocated and participated in. Not my idea of an inspirational hero.
I see clearly the enormous value of the Church and her institutions of education, health care, child protection. I am a physician and trained in history and I know that the Church has (not in the essentials of the Nicene Creed, for example) has had the ability to adjust to the times. We no longer attack scientists or condemn heretics to be handed over to the secular arm, etc. So don't tell me we are not susceptible to change.
@Pi10sco Of course there is change. The Church could not have remained relevant for 2000 years if she had not changed. But this change has not and must not infringe on the essential teachings of the Church. It is that and that alone that I am obligated to defend. We live in an age where the idea of objective absolute truth is rejected. Such a way of looking at things can do nothing but be at odds with the teaching of our Church. This is the threat and enemy I speak of.
Some kind of check, or catastrophes such as the child abuse scandal descend upon our Church and greatly diminish (not in my eyes, friend, so hold your fire), it's moral stature. I feel at times like one of those Tommie's in WW I who were condemned to repeat the same stupid charge over the top thanks to generals up high who are still using tactics from the last war.
Which is why I think I would not be so quick in going to either extreme. You would have me and other moderates just obey without understanding, about matters of great practical import to us out in the trenches. I see women who are otherwise virtuous being depreciated in matters such as birth control, etc. on the one hand. On the other hand, you fail to acknowledge that hierarchical highhandedness needs some kind of CBC
@Pi10sco We can not be moderate for Christ. There has never been a greater form of radicalism than Christianity. It challenged the worldly powers of the day 2000 yrs ago and continues to do so today. I really don't get your thing about women and contraception..as if an absence thereof is some form of oppression. My friend, what about the 50M human lives that have been taken in this country in the name of "women's choice"? We are living in upside-downsville my friend. It distresses me to my core.
@oldschoolsaint We take women's lives anyway if they don't have rights to choose how to protect themselves. We're still barbaric like our ancestors. I know a lot of fables in the church hierarchies. They must be let go first. Foolishness is definitely not equal to sincerity about gods.
As a father, I am finding that good example brings about good imitation on my kids' part. If I am temperate and pitch in with the work, they tend to fall in line better than when I just yammer at them.
@Pi10sco I am about to become a grandfather...raised 3 of my own and I am a coach and teacher. I agree with what you say. However, there are times when there is no substitute for a good swift kick in the rear end. I speak figuratively of course. To do any less when such is called for is the ultimate form of child abuse.
What did Paul say about evangelization? I am all things to all people. I know it's tempting to hit back hard, but you could end up firing on people on your own side. And not being very convincing in word or example. I would refer you to the good Fr. B's latest offering on evangelization for some tips.
@oldschoolsaint You are wrong friend when you question my belief in Jesus. I accept the veracity of the accounts given about Our Lord. I do acknowledge though that not everyone who looks into the Gospels are willing to place belief in these accounts. I would also urge you to see that reason and moderate language is more useful when your aim is to convince others who are not as knowledgeable in matters of religion.
(continuation from previous post) ....The evil that is in the Church has been planted there to destroy Her. For she is the only thing that stands between Satan and his ownership of all souls. We who understand our Catholic faith understand this and consequently are more passionate about cleaning the filth from the Church that all her secular critics combined. Why? Because we understand what truly is at stake.
Enough about the Church and the sex scandal...as if believers can be somehow shocked about Church indiscretions! Satan has been embedded in creation from day one. Adam and Eve anyone? He was at the crib of Jesus and in the heart of Herrod at the time of the incarnation. He accompanied Jesus in the desert. He stirred Peter to deny Jesus, Thomas to doubt him, and all 11 to run from him. SO why are we so shocked that he lurks within our Lord's church? (see next)
@zombiestripper85 This is hardly a patriarchy, I'd argue that we live in a matriarchy. The men may hold the majority of powerful positions, but just look at how few rights fathers have over their children to see how they quietly control things.
In viewing this video and the resulting posts, this quote from the Dalai Lama appears to be right on the mark. "Any religion-based answer to the problem of our neglect of inner values can never be universal, and so will be inadequate. What we need today is an approach to ethics which makes no recourse to religion and can be equally acceptable to those with faith and those without: a secular ethics."
@itslifeisall In other words lets take a vote. Yes, let's do away with God given unalienable rights and turn our country into a secular popularity contest. This thinking is so dangerous and so historically blind. One need not look further than the 20th Century to see what this type of thinking leads to. You take away God my friend and you take away the very concept of "values" that you quite rightfully cling to. How does that saying go? "Be careful what you wish for".
And one of these days the RCC is going to have to own up to the fact that huge percentages of Catholic women do use contraception and basically blow the Church's teachings off.
Simply because a large number of people disagree with something does not make that thing untrue. Case in point, Roman Catholic women and the teaching against contraception. The majority of RC women thinking it's okay does not in itself make it okay. Simple rule of logic.
Why people continue to 'reason' by argumentum ad populum, I'll never know. It's utterly fallacious and only makes them look silly. Case in point: you.
I wonder if the Church realizes that pride, envy and jealousy are also rampant withing Her congregation. Heaven's to Betsy if she should ever discover such. what would She do? What should She do? Turn those vices into virtues perhaps. That would certainly bring her up with the times. So silly of course. Same for the fact that many of the Church's followers use contraction. Fads and opinions just won't change unchangeable truth no matter how you shake it...no matter how you bake it.
Well, apparently Obama made an effort to accommodate the beliefs of the Church and any other religious organization that objects to birth control, etc - and as I understand things, the RCC is saying "that's not enough." Which only tells me that again, it's all about Obama's color and nothing else. This is really getting out of hand. I cannot believe how racist the world still is. I will not believe anything else. It's all. about. race.
@ladylejean215 Care to comment on Cardinals Peter Turkson and Francis Arinze, then? Since you were pulling the silly race card rubbish...
The Catholic Church disagrees with Obama on the HHS mandate, and you conclude that THEREFORE it's because the Church hates black people. What ridiculous rules of inference are you operating from? It does not follow whatsoever.
@ladylejean215 what a knucklehead. Who was one of the strongest supporters of the President's health care initiative. If you said the "RCC" you got it right. I guess they weren't racist then? The word "racism" has lost its meaning because its been thrown around so carelessly. Ironically, it remains a powerful weapon against the truth.
I would not so easily throw off a religion and an institution which still does extraordinary good in the world. The solution has always been in reforming the Church, in every age. My concern is whether the men at the top will be wily enough to save our Church in time, or will be go the way Europe has, and end up with a spiritually dying society, unable to inculcate in their own youth the good teachings of Christianity.
@Pi10sco What actually is your definition of reform? Can you give concrete examples? Are you talking about a change in fundamental beliefs? She can instantly become more popular and less controversial if She 1. Reduces Jesus to one of many saviors 2. Embraces every sexual proclivity as and expression of God's goodness 3. stopped Her opposition to abortion. Is this the type of change you're talking about? Shall we perhaps take a vote to see what most folks would like to see in the Church?
He inspired such unusual faith that his followers disseminated a faith which has all in all been a blessing to mankind because at its core lies a teaching of non-violence and brotherhood.
Historians rely on the report of long ago witnesses and try to come to the truth of what happened long ago. In the case of the Church, we have a number of witnesses who left their views, directly or via other writers, about an extraordinary man who claimed divine powers, but allied this with the Golden rule.
@Pi10sco Jesus did not claim divine powers he DISPLAYED divine powers. These powers are attested to through the writings and traditions of the Church, the blood of early Christian witnesses and the +2000 year perseverance of the Church. There is more evidence for Jesus' divine power than just about all that I'm quite sure you accept as historical fact.
@Pi10sco Well it just proves reason is more persuasive to the fair-minded that the ramblings of persons stoking a series of unprovable First Century arguments about the world and how it works. Sorry about that.
What I fear most, when I hear some of my more conservative brothers say "Follow or leave", is what effect such I cautious talk has on the feelings of women, of childbearing age, who struggle with the issue of contraception all the time. Do not doubt that the future of our Church's next generation is in their hands when they raise their children. If they feel excluded, they will walk away, and much of our future with them.
@Pi10sco There would not be a soul left in the Church if it were limited to the sinless. I also have great empathy for anyone who struggles with the requirements of our faith. I think the problem arises when we begin saying things like, "well it's my opinion that..." or "the Church needs to get in sync with the times." Whether we like it or not it really is a take all or take nothing proposition. You can't pick and choose what dogma you will follow.
@oldschoolsaint Indeed. The notion that the Church needs to "get with the times" is one of the worst scourges facing us today. It is a narcissistic presumption so think that we are in better shape now than we were, say, fifty years ago. And advances in technology are not what define the health of a culture.
Relativism really is pretty evil. It's what has infected much of the world and has taken hold of the minds even of Catholics (especially those in the U.S.). A sad state indeed.
@oldschoolsaint Well we could start with contraception services which apparently is needed by 98% of sexually active Catholic women. I'd say letting them fully participate as priests would be in order as well. Maybe we could also provide child care services for Catholics in need. That would be a start.
@72mespo And why are we making the claim that contraceptives are NEEDED by women? Why is a female 'prieshood' NEEDED?
I see no reason why contraceptives are a NEED, unless one needs specific hormonal treatment. Using contraceptives for their designed purpose is in no way a NEED; it is solely a WANT, and often a selfish one at that. Similarly with female 'priests'; this is grounded in the false assumption that men and women ought to be exactly the same. 'Equality' is not 'sameness'.
@carnivorousslushee23 Amen again...boy are you saving me many key strokes today! You might want to add that there's no institution on earth that does more for women in caring for the sick, infirm, and poor. Everyone of those souls has a mother who is eternally grateful to the Church's for its help.
@72mespo "contraception services which apparently is needed by 98% of sexually active Catholic women."
The USE of something in no ways implies the NEED of something. You cannot truthfully infer from "A majority of people use contraceptives" that "Those people NEED contraceptives." Incredibly bad logic.
@72mespo If they are walking away from the Church they walk away from Truth. That is their choice. If standing up for truth means that the Church must become leaner and meaner so be it. I'd rather have it that way than have the Church continue as a lukewarm institution where the passion and fire of true believers is diluted by the scourge of secular pablum and where, in the end, everyone winds up selling their soul to Satan.
Well I never maintained "unbridled" reason. And I celebrate the resistance of the Church against unchecked political power. But I do maintain that as a free citizen in a republic, I cannot let the bishops be my exclusive guide in every matter. I need to perform my duty with the tools I have. Many of my fellow Catholics will make their own judgments as well.I respect their opinions and certainly never raise the option of excluding them. Such intemperate talk has no place in a democracy or in the
Thanks Father Barron! As a young, single Catholic women, who believes that the Church's teachings on contraception protects me from being used by men for their own lustful desires. Thank you for being the spiritual father God has called you to be! A Saint once said, "The only thing I fear is bad Catholics."
Even if we lose the battle over religious liberty, Christ has already defeated evil on the Cross. So, the war's over. We just gotta participate in Christ just as Saint Paul did: by repentance.
@mariomusicmadness Not so. To participate in Christ is to first and foremost imitate him. The war is over for those who believe AND do His will. This means we are all called to speak truth to power and to endure whatever tribulations may come our way. He bore the Cross for our sake. We must carry our own for His sake in His name. His grace and salvation is an offering for all who follow in His ways. i'm sorry my friend but there's no gain without some pain.
@mariomusicmadness " Christ has already defeated evil"? He must have missed that madman running Syria or Iran or the scores of child rapists protected by the Church -- or don't they count?
@72mespo The triumph over evil is manifested in Christ's Resurrection and will be fully manifested in Christ's Advent. See Catechism of the Catholic Church 410-412 and 654-655. Also, the Church doesn't protect child rapists, or any sinners for that matter, from justice. See CCC 827 and 2389 and see vatican.va/resources/index_en.htm To claim every priest is a pedophile is a hasty generalization. To claim the Church protects child rapists is a false dilemma. Read up on fallacies, mespo.
@mariomusic I never claimed "every priest" was anyhing (straw man). I claimed they covered up and protected them. ThiThat's a manifest fact proven in various reports around the globe most recently in Ireland and Netherlands. If you want the cites,let me know. I also know what the Church says but I also know what the Church does - and there's a disconnect. The Church has unleashed the largest army of child rapists in history. There will be a reckoning here and beyond. BTW read up on bias.
@72mespo "The Church has unleashed the largest army of child rapists in history."
Hasty generalization much? This is odd, considering that the rate of pedophilia/pederasty in the Catholic clergy is much lower than that of public schools. Are we to say that the public school system has now "unleashed the largest army of child rapists in history"?
Also: "unleashed"? "army"?
Can you say loaded language? The fallacies are everywhere. It seems you could do with a reading up on bias as well.
Darn YT and it's character limit. I was saying that I equally strongly object to narrowly confining my judgments to whatever the bishops want. An overly strict connection between political and theological power has been a cause for scandal for the Church in every age. We cannot be like the Donatists, who would have excluded from the Church all but the ultrapure.
@Pi10sco It is a great mistake to compare the Church's current resistance to injustice to Her past indiscretions. As Catholics we are called to proclaim the truth and to do so boldly and yet compassionately. If that means we have to confront the political powers of our day, so be it. What on earth do you think the Cross stands for?
@oldschoolsaint My sense of reason is God-given. I respect what the bishops have to say and their position as apostolic successors but they are still human beings and can be prone to error. Only the Pope is infallible and only on matters where he speaks ex cathedra. In a democracy every citizen is sovereign within his sphere and can use his reason to carry out his duty as a citizen, and is on the par with any cleric. I objected to the government's imposition on the Church, but I equally strongl
@Pi10sco Your SENSE of reason is God-given but it must conform itself to God's truth if it is to be an instrument of God's will. Because a proposition is based on reason does not mean it is of God. A proposition can be completely reasonable and, yet, perfectly wrong. Misdirected reason is one of Satan's greatest weapons. The issue is truth, not reason. And, as Catholics, we look to the Church for truth...not our own unbridled reason.
We are witnessing the beginnings of a persecution that will destroy America.Our progressive leaders seek to impose their state religion on the people. In order to do that the Church must be taken down brick by brick. As always, She is the one who stands between liberty and hell. I hope that this threat will bring the Church together but fear that differences within the Church will be used to the advantage of those who seek her demise and that many will sit idly by and watch it go up in flames
@hersheystaste4life I will not follow you on your red herring trail. The issue at hand is religious liberty pure and simple. The state has no right to compel any person or institution to purchase a product or service that such person or institution finds morally objectionable. The state can not compel you to purchase and read a bible and it should not be permitted to force me or the Church to purchase contraceptive and abortive services for any third party. Simple concept.
Google this: according to a 2004 U.S. Department of Education study, “the physical sexual abuse of students in schools is likely more than 100 times the abuse by priests.” The most accurate data available indicates that “nearly 9.6 percent of students are targets of educator sexual misconduct sometime during their school career.”
Keep your kids away from public school teachers & employees!
@hersheystaste4life See, here's a good example of apocalyptic victimhood being used to rally the flock. oldschool has nothing relevant to argue so he raises that fear of an enemy. Of course, there is no real enemy but oldschool needs something. Truth is oldschool is about as atheistic as it comes -- just that he limits it to every other religion but his own. He's living proof of the fear/victim basis of most Western religions. Also a variant of the "No true Scotsman" fallacy. He's 2 for 2.
@72mespo Spot on about the fear/victim basis. To be honest I never saw it before. But it's a bit scary how both oldschoolsaint and capon33 dismiss the 8,000 children abused as if it doesn't matter.
Could you imagine how much good the Catholic church could do if they went after child rape as much as they do birth control? I guess they won't be for contraception until we evolve into a species where young boys can get pregnant.
@hersheystas If you have a Church based on human sacrifice what's a few thousand kids' innocence? If you some interesting discussion read my debate with domzaidan or mariomusicmadness. You can see how facts are irrelevant to them. They want affirmation not information. You could prove the validity of the Church to me in 30 seconds. Just have the deity or priest restore an amputee's leg. There is nothing I can prove to them to make them disavow the religion. This is for the fair-minded observers.
@72mespo I am amazed that so much ignorance could be packed in such a small space. Quite an accomplishment. Your position on the constitutionality of the mandate?
@oldschoolsaint I'm amazed that you have nothing to say in defense of the faith except a personal attck on me. It means I must be doing something right -- and you simply don't like it. The mandate is clearly constitutional because it contains an exception for purely religious entitiies. What's got the clergy's panties in a knot is that not every Catholic employer is exempt. That's never been required for religious freedom under the Const. Let me know if need cites. Another church power grab.
@72mespo The cites please. I assume they will defend the government's right to compel individuals and institutions to purchase products and services for third parties that violate the religious principles the above noted individuals and institutions. I eagerly await your response.
@hersheystaste4life You are not as slick as you think my friend. You can not defend your position on the subject matter of this thread so you drag out your red herring and expect me to follow. I will not. The contraception mandate is unconstitutional and morally reprehensible. You want to defend the new law or obfuscate? Now, if you want to concede on the issue of the mandate I would be happy to obliterate your other assertions. You game for it?
@72mespo Pope Ben Quote: "Today that consensus has eroded significantly in the face of powerful new cultural currents which are not only directly opposed to core moral teachings of the Judeo-Christian tradition, but increasingly hostile to Christianity as such." And in case you've forgotten our faith predicts a time of great tribulation during which the Church will undergo a great persecution.You have to deny all of Church teaching, scripture and history to assert what you have asserted.
@oldschoolsaint And to Pope Ben I say "Bully for That." It's about time to move away from those misogynistic fairy tales. That great tribulation has been "predicted" to be right around the corner since the First Century. You'd know that if you knew Church history. Since no one knows when that it will happen or even if it will happen your concern is misplaced. Would you like a list of Biblical predictions that didn't occur when predicted?
@72mespo You say "Truth is oldschool is about as atheistic as it comes -- just that he limits it to every other religion but his own. He's living proof of the fear/victim basis of most Western religions." What on earth does that mean?
@oldschoolsaint It means you don't spend one waking minute worrying about the Qu'ran teaching that failing to believe in Islam will send you to Hell upon your death. You're an atheist to that religion as your are to all the others that make exclusive claims to salvation through them. As for the fear/victim part take a look at your postings of dire consequences. First you tell us the Church is under attack and then you tell us we're going through a tribulation as a result. See, paranoia and fear.
@72mespo The puerile "We're all atheists about some god, I'm just atheist about one more" line makes no sense. Atheism is the universal denial of the existence of god, or ANY god. If one is an "atheist" toward a god, by definition one is atheist toward all gods. Particular denial of a god (e.g. Allah, Zeus, Yahweh, Odin) and full-blown atheism are completely separate things.
@72mespo I think you are very very confused about what it means to be an atheist. The Muslim, Jew and Christian are each MONOTHEISTS. You CANNOT be a monotheist and an atheist at the same time. ...You may be right about my paranoia but I'm completely right about the current persecution of the Church. Do you see? There is no contradiction there.
@72mespo Could you clarify on the bit about the No True Scotsman example? I don't quite see where it is, but if you could point it out, I might be able to properly comment on it.
@carnivoros Sorry, you're late to the party. This debate is over and while I'd like to do a point by point refutation time just doesn't permit it. Just one historical point about MLK from one who lived through it. King believed in nonviolence and peaceful protest, a tactic he learned from Gandhi. The Civil Rights Movement was about changing the law not picking up ecclestiatical marbles, going home, and then grumbling about victimhood. Real victims never wallow in it like those whiny Churchmen.
@ the people replying negatively to this video, If you do not agree with the teachings of the Catholic church WHY are watching a Catholic priest COMMENTING on HHS mandate. What do you think he is going to say "This is a great mandate, the bishops are just over reacting." ?
hopkid9519 43 minutes ago
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Should employers also be forced to cover sex change operations for the transgendered? After all, Obama and co. could easily frame it in terms of "sexual health." And they wouldn't dare "discriminate" against LGBTs, wouldn't they? Should male enhancement also be covered? If Sen. Boxer claims to fight for women's health, what about men's health?
allannus 2 days ago
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If contraceptives should be "free," how about cholesterol-lowering medications, antidiabetic drugs, vaccines, and other drugs that treat REAL diseases? Besides, why not make everything "free?" Oh, right: Obama is paying back his Planned Parenthood-type supporters, that's why contraceptives have to be number one! BTW, nothing is "free." Others pay for what others obtain "for free." And that's socialism.
allannus 2 days ago
The ones bullied are religious objectors, and the bully is the Obama administration. Where are they who chant "separation of church and state?" If they want to keep the church out of the state, they should also want to keep the state out of the church. The bishops are not forcing a theocracy. Obama, however, is forcing an atheocracy.
"To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of
opinions which he disbelieves and abhors, is sinful and tyrannical." -Thomas
Jefferson
allannus 2 days ago
Obama is 100% correct on this one. If religious organizations want federal funding, they have to play by the rules and cover basic healthcare needs of women. No one is forcing them to accept federal funds. They are simply greedy and misogynistic at the same time.
OBAMA 2012!
Senehtsotara 2 days ago
@Senehtsotara How is birth control a health care need? Will a woman's health decline if she uses birth control? Actually, her mental and physical health is more likely to suffer as a result of using it. And what about the health of the baby in her womb? Some of the birth control pills currently covered by Obamacare can cause abortions. Religious organizations want federal funding to help people, to feed them, to house them, to clothe them, to educate them, to nurse them back to health.
rolandrtx 1 day ago
@rolandrtx Contraception is basic healthcare for women, as any idiot understands.
Senehtsotara 1 day ago
@Senehtsotara That presumes the pregnancy is tantamount to a disease.
wordonfirevideo 21 hours ago
@Senehtsotara Then I guess I'm not an idiot. But you're not going to convince anyone with your response. Can you provide a more compelling answer? How is birth control a health care need? What does it cure, pregnancy? Is pregnancy a disease?
rolandrtx 19 hours ago
@rolandrtx Pregnancy is certainly a healthcare concern, both for the mother and for the child. That's so obvious that I feel silly typing it. Only you are suggesting that all healthcare concerns are "diseases." They are not. Once you get past that reductive and false viewpoint, there is no problem here. Pregnancy involves healthcare services and costs; what could be more evident?
Senehtsotara 5 hours ago
My pet beagle is going to be my write-in candidate come next election.
Archangel866 2 days ago
catholics can go play in my PISS!!!!!!
HuaYifu 3 days ago
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We Pro-Choice people should support a bill requiring all women considering becoming nuns to submit to a trans vaginal ultrasound probe. "Ridiculous!" "Medically unnecessary!" you say? So is forcing a trans vaginal ultrasound probe on women seeking an abortion.
MrBushlied 3 days ago
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The First Amendment is being violated when religious organizations impose their backward beliefs on others. You don't get to deny people basic healthcare when you're receiving taxpayer funding for it.
Senehtsotara 6 days ago
On Friday, a broad coalition of religious organizations filed an amicus brief supporting [this mandate] that disproves any claim that the faith community opposes it. The brief includes a number of major religious denominations, including the United Methodist Church, the United Church of Christ & the Presbyterian Church. The brief’s signatories also include a wide range of Catholic groups: Benedictine Sisters, Boerne, Texas; Congregation of the Sisters of Charity of the Incarnate Word, Texas, etc
thereisaseason 6 days ago
@thereisaseason Hilarious. The leadership of all three of those churches is notoriously leftist in orientation and the UCC is hardly identifiable as a Christian church at all.
Whatever the case, the support the Catholic Church receives from them or any other set of religious institutions is utterly irrelevant to the question at hand.
smmclaug75 3 days ago
@smmclaug75 Not relevant? Politically, the fact that various sects within the Catholic Church are NOT aligned with the its fundamentalist wing, is, by definition, signifcant. "THE" Catholic Church is not as unified as many would have it be. These are clearly a group of tired old men who don't want women to enjoy sex. Patently transparent. And what the hell does "the UCC is hardely identifiable as a Christian church at all" mean?!? Who the hell are you to assert a sanctimonious thing?
thereisaseason 3 days ago
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So what should a 13 year old girl who misses her period for 4 months straight and then gets it for a month straight do? What should she do if her period symptoms are so bad she is bed ridden and can't go to school? If her parents are low income, and work for a Catholic organization should she made to SUFFER?
Should we make Muslims exempt from murder charges in the case of honor killings? If we don't isn't that an attack on our religious freedoms too?
luvitluvitbaby 1 week ago
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A "religious" objection isn't necessarily an intelligent objection. More likely, it's an outmoded one cloaked in mystical obscurantist BS.
Exactly the case here. Even 98% of Catholic women report using birth control, and the human population is now 7 billion. We have been fruitful and multiplied and all that. It's time now for the Catholic Church to grow up and face the realities of the modern world.
p.s. Rasmussen? Everyone knows that's a skewed, far-right pollster.
Senehtsotara 1 week ago
@Senehtsotara The west is in a birth dearth. Europe is in a demographic. winter. That 98% figure is being investigated. I don't gobble up everything I read like a garbage disposal. Do you? The First Amendemnt is being violated. Let's make Muslims eat pork, Jehovah's Witnesses get blood transfusions, and vegetarian Seventh Day Adventists eat meat.
pwthcim 6 days ago
@pwthcim The real problem is that the 98% figure, if it was correct, would totally undermine the entire rationale of the mandate. If 98% of Catholic women use contraception, then there CAN'T BE ANY PROBLEM WITH ACCESS TO CONTRACEPTION IN THE FIRST PLACE. So the whole point of the mandate is revealed for what it is--an attempt to smother and destroy any and all opposition, any and all effective religious practice.
smmclaug75 3 days ago
We Lutherans are with you on this.
chrisdernay 1 week ago
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A CBS poll shows that 65% of Americans support Obama, not the reactionary, misogynistic bishops.
Senehtsotara 1 week ago
@Senehtsotara The CBS/NYT poll didn't mention that religious institutions might object to the mandate. Rasmussen and Pew polls did, and their results are in favor of the bishops in a 5:4 ratio. CBS and New York Times are leftist news sources, so it's not surprising if they didn't include essential details in their polling question so that their poll results will be skewed in favor of Obama.
allannus 1 week ago
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The Catholic reactionaries have now taken to censoring remarks it doesn't like.
Shows again how pitifully un-American and insecure they are.
Senehtsotara 1 week ago
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The UNITED STATES OF AMERICA must be doing fine today if the top news story is NOT jobs or the national debt, but rather, do we all have enough access to enough condoms. In terms of the federal govenment, YES it's becoming bigger, more powerful, more controlling because Obama wants to change the US into a nanny goverment that intrudes on everything and regulates every person. Obama wants to DECREASE people's opportunity and choice in regards to their self-reliance and independence.
VoteRandPaul2016 1 week ago
When Obama altered the bill to shift the onus to the insurance company for funding it is now the church that are drawing line in the sand to force people to half to choose between the views of the church or accept policies that are suggested by government I hope the church looses (again)
LiberalElitistMedia 1 week ago
@LiberalElitistMedia Government does not "suggest" anything. What a pathetic weasel word. Just admit you're talking about forcing the Catholic Church to pay for sterilization, abortofacients, and contraception, and be done with it. The idea that it is the Church who is "forcing" anything on anyone is utterly risible. You simply have no concept of what freedom in this country is all about.
smmclaug75 3 days ago
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LiberalElitistMedia 3 days ago
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@smmclaug75 I can not find my post so I don't know exactly how to reply. The Catholic church should have woman's health care available as should anyone else.. I do not understand how one religions faith based beliefs deserve any more exemption then some other religions rights to honor kill their daughters or deny life saving medical procedures to children because of their "faith' LOL
LiberalElitistMedia 3 days ago
Obama is 100% correct on this one. If the religious organizations want federal funding, they have to play by the rules and cover basic healthcare needs of women. End of story.
OBAMA 2012!
Senehtsotara 1 week ago
@Senehtsotara: Nope! :D
RockyBalboa211 1 week ago
@msrepodude And as my people like to say: ¡Y tu madre!
Pi10sco 1 week ago
@msrepodude I am so glad not to be you. The thought of having to look at yourself in the morning each day makes me feel sorry for the self-revulsion and nausea you should be feeling. However, I am impressed by the quantity of bigotry (antiCatholic, antiLatino) and profanity you were able to concentrate in one paragraph must have taken all of your mental ability to accomplish...Cheers!
Pi10sco 1 week ago
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The mackerel-snappers did this to themselves. 54% of pew-warmers voted for Barry and 60%+ of clergy did so. The Catholic bishops will suck Barry's dick because they want a constant flow of wetbacks to fill the aisles, and so will support Beaner Amnesty.
YOU CAN'T DANCE WITH THE DEVIL.
MsRepoDude 1 week ago
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The only controversy the Catholic church needs to worry about is how they can continue to collect money from businesses and parishioners, tax free, only to use it to pay hundreds of millions in settlements for harboring pedophile priests. And they're worried about some woman's right to reproductive health products? How about those hard-on pills they don't mind paying for.Hypocrisy is a religion of man! Always has been, always will be.
grandysfunction 1 week ago
Father...please, please do a piece on the great evil of contraception in the United States. We all know that it is a terrible, terrible thing to let women decide when to have babies. You must defend the position of the Roman Catholic Church and make sure that Barack Obama NEVER allows women to control their reproduction! Please do a piece on this! Save babies in the United States!
strugglingtobecathol 1 week ago
@strugglingtobecathol You missed the entire point of the video. Far out, what is wrong with Liberals? The video is addressing the point that a secular government should not be allowed to force its ideology onto the Church. So if you're an employee of a Church-run School or Hospital, how is it then reasonable to expect to be given something that is against their teachings? Unreasonable, of course. And if you have an issue with the Church's doctrine, then you shouldn't be working for them. Simple.
HrMerrlol 1 week ago
@HrMerrlol Of course, I agree! If someone works for the holy Catholic Church, they shouldn't expect to receive help to do something sinful. And we know that women really shouldn't be able to limit their babies anyway. Such a thing is so very, very sinful. I do think that our country would be so much better off if the Catholic Church was in control as it used to be in the old days. If you didn't agree with the holy Church, you were put on trial, and you were executed if you didn't behave.
strugglingtobecathol 1 week ago
@strugglingtobecathol The Church does not oppose family planning - it opposes any means that interrupt the full act of intimacy, as designed by God. It upholds that God designed sex for a purpose: UNITY in love for one another (not selfish lust); LIFE/LOVE GIVING (giving of one's ENTIRE self to the other, not holding back the fertile capacity while offering only the capacity for pleasure); and CONSUMMATION of the wedding vows.
UTLBify 1 week ago
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@UTLBify This is just reactionary fatalism, along the lines of "If god intended humans to fly, she would have given them wings." Contraception is here to stay. Grow up and get over it.
Senehtsotara 1 week ago
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UTLBify 1 week ago
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@strugglingtobecathol The church proposes NFP, which doesn't remove fertility from sex. The couple abstains from sex during fertile periods and thereby keeps the bond of the 3 components of sex in tact. Birth control dissects the components of sex (leaving out fertility) and poses the risk of using sex for mutual self gratification, rather than mutual self giving, and this makes it a selfish act which is not of God's design.
UTLBify 1 week ago
I was the only male in the highest level Women Studies class at mu university. I went that far with it because I needed electives and I love history, and I enjoyed learning about women's history. However, what I also learned is that at the heart of the feminist movement is a hatred for men, particularly white men like their fathers. Bascially, they hate their fathers. I'm not making this shit up.
top20modernrock 1 week ago
Tax-free child rapists. That's a fact.
And we're supposed to take advice from them?! What a fuckin' joke.
MamoDad 1 week ago
@MamoDad Way to stereotype!! Of course there are priests who are guilty of abuse in the Catholic church...just like there are guilty protestant ministers...and uncles, and dads, and grandfathers all over the world. Child abuse is not limited to, or synonymous with the Catholic Priesthood - it exists everywhere. The fact that scandal exists is not so shameful as the fact that some of the "good guys" defend and protect the abusers from receiving justice - these are the ones to criticize.
UTLBify 1 week ago
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To Catholic bishops: Please keep your archaic nonsense beliefs out of my government and I promise not to enter your church and think.
Sweence 1 week ago
@janinemunson Not to go off topic on this thread, but More was a royal administrator and duty bound to follow the law as it stood in his day. He did try to persuade heretics non-violently if he could. Many others, Catholic and Protestant, did the same then and later. It is the admirable quality of any person, and not his or his era's defects, that ought to be emulated.
Pi10sco 2 weeks ago
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The Catholic Church got into this mess by equating government wealth redistribution with charity. It supported bigger government not realizing that it was encouraging the confiscation of wealth via taxation. Forced taxation is not charity. It helped to create a beast that needs ever more redistribution to survive as over half the people expect something from government. Now the beast wants something from the Church – abortion services – as a means to make more women dependent on government.
ThereGoYou 2 weeks ago
The day we think we have control of life, is the day we will find our lives being controlled by the government.
1tontomato 2 weeks ago
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And Yet the majority of Catholics will vote for Obama again...
missionaryorganist 2 weeks ago
@missionaryorganist Not just the dead Catholics but also the dead citizens.
1tontomato 2 weeks ago
@missionaryorganist The braindead?
pwthcim 1 week ago
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@missionaryorganist As well they should! The bishops and Republicans should be sent back to the Dark Ages, where they belong.
Senehtsotara 1 week ago
Anti Catholic and Atheists push this for obvious reasons.. They are blinded by their hatred towards the Church... In doing so, they are advocating tyranny... That's right! Tyranny. This isn't about religion. This is about government overstepping their reach and forcing PRIVATE organizations (religious or not) to provide specific products and services to people... Judging by some of the foolish comments below, I'm sure I will be the next one to be attacked...
imax1971 2 weeks ago 2
Whether I agree or not, I always am enriched from listening to Fr. Barron's cogent analyses of events. One question I do have is - are the bishops in the USA ready to call their confreres in Europe to task for partaking of their universal health care systems which I'm sure do require reproductive health services for their people, including contraseption, sterilization and abortion? What does this mean for moral unity in the Church?
minnesotamonk 2 weeks ago
Great clip - FUBO!!!!!!
ctb3386 2 weeks ago
@oldschoolsaint God bless you brother.
Pi10sco 2 weeks ago
I have no problem about contraception. Especial about casual relationships that needs contraception since long long time ago. I absolutely have no problem about that for no abortion will be needed. Just like porns now-a-day that you're bombing by them but you have choices not buying them. Women should have rights to choose.
beancube2010 2 weeks ago
To end with, it's because of all the good the Church has done, and can continue to do, that I would defend her to the last gasp. I doubt that our secular friends could really replace her many necessary and vital activities, if they remained open minded enough to consider it carefully. But defend her temperately, with humor. Thomas More' approach comes readily to mind.
Pi10sco 2 weeks ago
Well said my friend. But I think there is more to be said. I think the world being produced by our secular friends will ultimately be one that is not as God free as one might think. The supreme throne is bound to be filled by someone or something that I believe will ultimately leave us all yearning for some good old fashioned religion. The freedoms we have and the values we share did not fall from the sky. They emerged from a Judeo-Christian view of the world. We need to resist secularism.
oldschoolsaint 2 weeks ago
@Pi10sco Thomas Moore might have used humor - he was laughing all the way to the "heretic" burnings he advocated and participated in. Not my idea of an inspirational hero.
janinemunson 2 weeks ago
I see clearly the enormous value of the Church and her institutions of education, health care, child protection. I am a physician and trained in history and I know that the Church has (not in the essentials of the Nicene Creed, for example) has had the ability to adjust to the times. We no longer attack scientists or condemn heretics to be handed over to the secular arm, etc. So don't tell me we are not susceptible to change.
Pi10sco 2 weeks ago
@Pi10sco Of course there is change. The Church could not have remained relevant for 2000 years if she had not changed. But this change has not and must not infringe on the essential teachings of the Church. It is that and that alone that I am obligated to defend. We live in an age where the idea of objective absolute truth is rejected. Such a way of looking at things can do nothing but be at odds with the teaching of our Church. This is the threat and enemy I speak of.
oldschoolsaint 2 weeks ago
Some kind of check, or catastrophes such as the child abuse scandal descend upon our Church and greatly diminish (not in my eyes, friend, so hold your fire), it's moral stature. I feel at times like one of those Tommie's in WW I who were condemned to repeat the same stupid charge over the top thanks to generals up high who are still using tactics from the last war.
Pi10sco 2 weeks ago
Which is why I think I would not be so quick in going to either extreme. You would have me and other moderates just obey without understanding, about matters of great practical import to us out in the trenches. I see women who are otherwise virtuous being depreciated in matters such as birth control, etc. on the one hand. On the other hand, you fail to acknowledge that hierarchical highhandedness needs some kind of CBC
Pi10sco 2 weeks ago
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oldschoolsaint 2 weeks ago
@Pi10sco We can not be moderate for Christ. There has never been a greater form of radicalism than Christianity. It challenged the worldly powers of the day 2000 yrs ago and continues to do so today. I really don't get your thing about women and contraception..as if an absence thereof is some form of oppression. My friend, what about the 50M human lives that have been taken in this country in the name of "women's choice"? We are living in upside-downsville my friend. It distresses me to my core.
oldschoolsaint 2 weeks ago
@oldschoolsaint We take women's lives anyway if they don't have rights to choose how to protect themselves. We're still barbaric like our ancestors. I know a lot of fables in the church hierarchies. They must be let go first. Foolishness is definitely not equal to sincerity about gods.
beancube2010 2 weeks ago
As a father, I am finding that good example brings about good imitation on my kids' part. If I am temperate and pitch in with the work, they tend to fall in line better than when I just yammer at them.
Pi10sco 2 weeks ago
@Pi10sco I am about to become a grandfather...raised 3 of my own and I am a coach and teacher. I agree with what you say. However, there are times when there is no substitute for a good swift kick in the rear end. I speak figuratively of course. To do any less when such is called for is the ultimate form of child abuse.
oldschoolsaint 2 weeks ago
What did Paul say about evangelization? I am all things to all people. I know it's tempting to hit back hard, but you could end up firing on people on your own side. And not being very convincing in word or example. I would refer you to the good Fr. B's latest offering on evangelization for some tips.
Pi10sco 2 weeks ago
@oldschoolsaint You are wrong friend when you question my belief in Jesus. I accept the veracity of the accounts given about Our Lord. I do acknowledge though that not everyone who looks into the Gospels are willing to place belief in these accounts. I would also urge you to see that reason and moderate language is more useful when your aim is to convince others who are not as knowledgeable in matters of religion.
Pi10sco 2 weeks ago
@Pi10sco You are right my friend. Message received and appreciated. I am sorry if I came on too strong and with a lack of humility. God bless you.
oldschoolsaint 2 weeks ago
(continuation from previous post) ....The evil that is in the Church has been planted there to destroy Her. For she is the only thing that stands between Satan and his ownership of all souls. We who understand our Catholic faith understand this and consequently are more passionate about cleaning the filth from the Church that all her secular critics combined. Why? Because we understand what truly is at stake.
oldschoolsaint 2 weeks ago
Enough about the Church and the sex scandal...as if believers can be somehow shocked about Church indiscretions! Satan has been embedded in creation from day one. Adam and Eve anyone? He was at the crib of Jesus and in the heart of Herrod at the time of the incarnation. He accompanied Jesus in the desert. He stirred Peter to deny Jesus, Thomas to doubt him, and all 11 to run from him. SO why are we so shocked that he lurks within our Lord's church? (see next)
oldschoolsaint 2 weeks ago
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Androcentric patriarchal totalitarianism.
zombiestripper85 2 weeks ago
@zombiestripper85 Uncritical, arrogant, secularist ideology.
wordonfirevideo 2 weeks ago 20
@wordonfirevideo Immature, religiocentric, name calling.
itslifeisall 2 weeks ago
@wordonfirevideo How can a criticism be uncritical? And I'm not a secularist, I'm a Jewish Naturalistic Pantheist
zombiestripper85 2 weeks ago
@wordonfirevideo Misogynistic, reactionary, superstitious bullshit.
Senehtsotara 1 week ago
@Senehtsotara And totally protected by the First Amendment, too. So move on.
smmclaug75 3 days ago
@zombiestripper85 This is hardly a patriarchy, I'd argue that we live in a matriarchy. The men may hold the majority of powerful positions, but just look at how few rights fathers have over their children to see how they quietly control things.
Sentinalh 2 weeks ago in playlist More videos from wordonfirevideo
@zombiestripper85 Misapplied gargantuan confabulation.
LilacLily9 2 weeks ago
@LilacLily9 what do you mean?
ThereGoYou 1 week ago
In viewing this video and the resulting posts, this quote from the Dalai Lama appears to be right on the mark. "Any religion-based answer to the problem of our neglect of inner values can never be universal, and so will be inadequate. What we need today is an approach to ethics which makes no recourse to religion and can be equally acceptable to those with faith and those without: a secular ethics."
itslifeisall 2 weeks ago
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oldschoolsaint 2 weeks ago
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@itslifeisall In other words lets take a vote. Yes, let's do away with God given unalienable rights and turn our country into a secular popularity contest. This thinking is so dangerous and so historically blind. One need not look further than the 20th Century to see what this type of thinking leads to. You take away God my friend and you take away the very concept of "values" that you quite rightfully cling to. How does that saying go? "Be careful what you wish for".
oldschoolsaint 2 weeks ago
Just out of curiosity, how do the female Catholic Bishops feel about this issue... oh wait, never mind.
itslifeisall 2 weeks ago
@itslifeisall That's why they invented Anglicanism: so women could be "bishops" and gays could get "married."
billybagbom 2 weeks ago
And one of these days the RCC is going to have to own up to the fact that huge percentages of Catholic women do use contraception and basically blow the Church's teachings off.
ladylejean215 2 weeks ago
@ladylejean215 And your point is...what?
Simply because a large number of people disagree with something does not make that thing untrue. Case in point, Roman Catholic women and the teaching against contraception. The majority of RC women thinking it's okay does not in itself make it okay. Simple rule of logic.
Why people continue to 'reason' by argumentum ad populum, I'll never know. It's utterly fallacious and only makes them look silly. Case in point: you.
carnivorousslushee23 2 weeks ago
I wonder if the Church realizes that pride, envy and jealousy are also rampant withing Her congregation. Heaven's to Betsy if she should ever discover such. what would She do? What should She do? Turn those vices into virtues perhaps. That would certainly bring her up with the times. So silly of course. Same for the fact that many of the Church's followers use contraction. Fads and opinions just won't change unchangeable truth no matter how you shake it...no matter how you bake it.
oldschoolsaint 2 weeks ago
Well, apparently Obama made an effort to accommodate the beliefs of the Church and any other religious organization that objects to birth control, etc - and as I understand things, the RCC is saying "that's not enough." Which only tells me that again, it's all about Obama's color and nothing else. This is really getting out of hand. I cannot believe how racist the world still is. I will not believe anything else. It's all. about. race.
ladylejean215 2 weeks ago
@ladylejean215 Care to comment on Cardinals Peter Turkson and Francis Arinze, then? Since you were pulling the silly race card rubbish...
The Catholic Church disagrees with Obama on the HHS mandate, and you conclude that THEREFORE it's because the Church hates black people. What ridiculous rules of inference are you operating from? It does not follow whatsoever.
carnivorousslushee23 2 weeks ago
@ladylejean215 what a knucklehead. Who was one of the strongest supporters of the President's health care initiative. If you said the "RCC" you got it right. I guess they weren't racist then? The word "racism" has lost its meaning because its been thrown around so carelessly. Ironically, it remains a powerful weapon against the truth.
oldschoolsaint 2 weeks ago
I would not so easily throw off a religion and an institution which still does extraordinary good in the world. The solution has always been in reforming the Church, in every age. My concern is whether the men at the top will be wily enough to save our Church in time, or will be go the way Europe has, and end up with a spiritually dying society, unable to inculcate in their own youth the good teachings of Christianity.
Pi10sco 2 weeks ago
@Pi10sco What actually is your definition of reform? Can you give concrete examples? Are you talking about a change in fundamental beliefs? She can instantly become more popular and less controversial if She 1. Reduces Jesus to one of many saviors 2. Embraces every sexual proclivity as and expression of God's goodness 3. stopped Her opposition to abortion. Is this the type of change you're talking about? Shall we perhaps take a vote to see what most folks would like to see in the Church?
oldschoolsaint 2 weeks ago
He inspired such unusual faith that his followers disseminated a faith which has all in all been a blessing to mankind because at its core lies a teaching of non-violence and brotherhood.
Pi10sco 2 weeks ago
Historians rely on the report of long ago witnesses and try to come to the truth of what happened long ago. In the case of the Church, we have a number of witnesses who left their views, directly or via other writers, about an extraordinary man who claimed divine powers, but allied this with the Golden rule.
Pi10sco 2 weeks ago
@Pi10sco Jesus did not claim divine powers he DISPLAYED divine powers. These powers are attested to through the writings and traditions of the Church, the blood of early Christian witnesses and the +2000 year perseverance of the Church. There is more evidence for Jesus' divine power than just about all that I'm quite sure you accept as historical fact.
oldschoolsaint 2 weeks ago
Hershey, it's intellectually lazy to simply throw up your hands at the historical problem and say that Jesus's teachings are unknowable.
Pi10sco 2 weeks ago
Hershey and mespo, congratulations for turning this thread into a mutual admiration society.
Pi10sco 2 weeks ago
@Pi10sco Well it just proves reason is more persuasive to the fair-minded that the ramblings of persons stoking a series of unprovable First Century arguments about the world and how it works. Sorry about that.
72mespo 2 weeks ago
Hershey and Meso
Pi10sco 2 weeks ago
What I fear most, when I hear some of my more conservative brothers say "Follow or leave", is what effect such I cautious talk has on the feelings of women, of childbearing age, who struggle with the issue of contraception all the time. Do not doubt that the future of our Church's next generation is in their hands when they raise their children. If they feel excluded, they will walk away, and much of our future with them.
Pi10sco 2 weeks ago
@Pi10sco There would not be a soul left in the Church if it were limited to the sinless. I also have great empathy for anyone who struggles with the requirements of our faith. I think the problem arises when we begin saying things like, "well it's my opinion that..." or "the Church needs to get in sync with the times." Whether we like it or not it really is a take all or take nothing proposition. You can't pick and choose what dogma you will follow.
oldschoolsaint 2 weeks ago
@oldschoolsaint Indeed. The notion that the Church needs to "get with the times" is one of the worst scourges facing us today. It is a narcissistic presumption so think that we are in better shape now than we were, say, fifty years ago. And advances in technology are not what define the health of a culture.
Relativism really is pretty evil. It's what has infected much of the world and has taken hold of the minds even of Catholics (especially those in the U.S.). A sad state indeed.
carnivorousslushee23 2 weeks ago
@carnivorousslushee23 Amen brother/sister!
oldschoolsaint 2 weeks ago
@oldschoolsaint Brother, sir. At your service and your family's.
carnivorousslushee23 2 weeks ago
@Pi10sco @Pi10sco They are walking away in droves because of this obstinancy and indifference to the needs of women.
72mespo 2 weeks ago
@72mespo This is nonsense. Please tell me about the needs of women that the Church is not meeting. Let's stop the generalizations and get specific.
oldschoolsaint 2 weeks ago
@oldschoolsaint Well we could start with contraception services which apparently is needed by 98% of sexually active Catholic women. I'd say letting them fully participate as priests would be in order as well. Maybe we could also provide child care services for Catholics in need. That would be a start.
72mespo 2 weeks ago
@72mespo And why are we making the claim that contraceptives are NEEDED by women? Why is a female 'prieshood' NEEDED?
I see no reason why contraceptives are a NEED, unless one needs specific hormonal treatment. Using contraceptives for their designed purpose is in no way a NEED; it is solely a WANT, and often a selfish one at that. Similarly with female 'priests'; this is grounded in the false assumption that men and women ought to be exactly the same. 'Equality' is not 'sameness'.
carnivorousslushee23 2 weeks ago
@carnivorousslushee23 Amen again...boy are you saving me many key strokes today! You might want to add that there's no institution on earth that does more for women in caring for the sick, infirm, and poor. Everyone of those souls has a mother who is eternally grateful to the Church's for its help.
oldschoolsaint 2 weeks ago
@72mespo "contraception services which apparently is needed by 98% of sexually active Catholic women."
The USE of something in no ways implies the NEED of something. You cannot truthfully infer from "A majority of people use contraceptives" that "Those people NEED contraceptives." Incredibly bad logic.
carnivorousslushee23 2 weeks ago
@72mespo If they are walking away from the Church they walk away from Truth. That is their choice. If standing up for truth means that the Church must become leaner and meaner so be it. I'd rather have it that way than have the Church continue as a lukewarm institution where the passion and fire of true believers is diluted by the scourge of secular pablum and where, in the end, everyone winds up selling their soul to Satan.
oldschoolsaint 2 weeks ago
What I fear most, when I hear some of my brothers say, in cautious
Pi10sco 2 weeks ago
In the Church.
Pi10sco 2 weeks ago
Well I never maintained "unbridled" reason. And I celebrate the resistance of the Church against unchecked political power. But I do maintain that as a free citizen in a republic, I cannot let the bishops be my exclusive guide in every matter. I need to perform my duty with the tools I have. Many of my fellow Catholics will make their own judgments as well.I respect their opinions and certainly never raise the option of excluding them. Such intemperate talk has no place in a democracy or in the
Pi10sco 2 weeks ago
Thanks Father Barron! As a young, single Catholic women, who believes that the Church's teachings on contraception protects me from being used by men for their own lustful desires. Thank you for being the spiritual father God has called you to be! A Saint once said, "The only thing I fear is bad Catholics."
deechai1 2 weeks ago
Even if we lose the battle over religious liberty, Christ has already defeated evil on the Cross. So, the war's over. We just gotta participate in Christ just as Saint Paul did: by repentance.
mariomusicmadness 2 weeks ago
@mariomusicmadness Not so. To participate in Christ is to first and foremost imitate him. The war is over for those who believe AND do His will. This means we are all called to speak truth to power and to endure whatever tribulations may come our way. He bore the Cross for our sake. We must carry our own for His sake in His name. His grace and salvation is an offering for all who follow in His ways. i'm sorry my friend but there's no gain without some pain.
oldschoolsaint 2 weeks ago
@mariomusicmadness " Christ has already defeated evil"? He must have missed that madman running Syria or Iran or the scores of child rapists protected by the Church -- or don't they count?
72mespo 2 weeks ago
@72mespo The triumph over evil is manifested in Christ's Resurrection and will be fully manifested in Christ's Advent. See Catechism of the Catholic Church 410-412 and 654-655. Also, the Church doesn't protect child rapists, or any sinners for that matter, from justice. See CCC 827 and 2389 and see vatican.va/resources/index_en.htm To claim every priest is a pedophile is a hasty generalization. To claim the Church protects child rapists is a false dilemma. Read up on fallacies, mespo.
mariomusicmadness 2 weeks ago
@mariomusic I never claimed "every priest" was anyhing (straw man). I claimed they covered up and protected them. ThiThat's a manifest fact proven in various reports around the globe most recently in Ireland and Netherlands. If you want the cites,let me know. I also know what the Church says but I also know what the Church does - and there's a disconnect. The Church has unleashed the largest army of child rapists in history. There will be a reckoning here and beyond. BTW read up on bias.
72mespo 2 weeks ago
@72mespo "The Church has unleashed the largest army of child rapists in history."
Hasty generalization much? This is odd, considering that the rate of pedophilia/pederasty in the Catholic clergy is much lower than that of public schools. Are we to say that the public school system has now "unleashed the largest army of child rapists in history"?
Also: "unleashed"? "army"?
Can you say loaded language? The fallacies are everywhere. It seems you could do with a reading up on bias as well.
carnivorousslushee23 2 weeks ago
Darn YT and it's character limit. I was saying that I equally strongly object to narrowly confining my judgments to whatever the bishops want. An overly strict connection between political and theological power has been a cause for scandal for the Church in every age. We cannot be like the Donatists, who would have excluded from the Church all but the ultrapure.
Pi10sco 2 weeks ago
@Pi10sco It is a great mistake to compare the Church's current resistance to injustice to Her past indiscretions. As Catholics we are called to proclaim the truth and to do so boldly and yet compassionately. If that means we have to confront the political powers of our day, so be it. What on earth do you think the Cross stands for?
oldschoolsaint 2 weeks ago
I think it's perilous to treat every political difference within the laity as an invitation to schism. We are divided enough.
Pi10sco 2 weeks ago
@oldschoolsaint My sense of reason is God-given. I respect what the bishops have to say and their position as apostolic successors but they are still human beings and can be prone to error. Only the Pope is infallible and only on matters where he speaks ex cathedra. In a democracy every citizen is sovereign within his sphere and can use his reason to carry out his duty as a citizen, and is on the par with any cleric. I objected to the government's imposition on the Church, but I equally strongl
Pi10sco 2 weeks ago
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oldschoolsaint 2 weeks ago
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oldschoolsaint 2 weeks ago
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oldschoolsaint 2 weeks ago
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@Pi10sco Your SENSE of reason is God-given but it must conform itself to God's truth if it is to be an instrument of God's will. Because a proposition is based on reason does not mean it is of God. A proposition can be completely reasonable and, yet, perfectly wrong. Misdirected reason is one of Satan's greatest weapons. The issue is truth, not reason. And, as Catholics, we look to the Church for truth...not our own unbridled reason.
oldschoolsaint 2 weeks ago
@oldschoolsaint Very well said, sir.
carnivorousslushee23 2 weeks ago
We are witnessing the beginnings of a persecution that will destroy America.Our progressive leaders seek to impose their state religion on the people. In order to do that the Church must be taken down brick by brick. As always, She is the one who stands between liberty and hell. I hope that this threat will bring the Church together but fear that differences within the Church will be used to the advantage of those who seek her demise and that many will sit idly by and watch it go up in flames
oldschoolsaint 2 weeks ago
@oldschoolsaint Google this: More than 8,000 children abused by Milwaukee archdiocese priests.
Celibacy in the church is a "public safety crisis." Contraception is the least of their problems.
hersheystaste4life 2 weeks ago
@hersheystaste4life I will not follow you on your red herring trail. The issue at hand is religious liberty pure and simple. The state has no right to compel any person or institution to purchase a product or service that such person or institution finds morally objectionable. The state can not compel you to purchase and read a bible and it should not be permitted to force me or the Church to purchase contraceptive and abortive services for any third party. Simple concept.
oldschoolsaint 2 weeks ago
@hersheystaste4life
Google this: according to a 2004 U.S. Department of Education study, “the physical sexual abuse of students in schools is likely more than 100 times the abuse by priests.” The most accurate data available indicates that “nearly 9.6 percent of students are targets of educator sexual misconduct sometime during their school career.”
Keep your kids away from public school teachers & employees!
capon33 2 weeks ago
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oldschoolsaint 2 weeks ago
@hersheystaste4life See, here's a good example of apocalyptic victimhood being used to rally the flock. oldschool has nothing relevant to argue so he raises that fear of an enemy. Of course, there is no real enemy but oldschool needs something. Truth is oldschool is about as atheistic as it comes -- just that he limits it to every other religion but his own. He's living proof of the fear/victim basis of most Western religions. Also a variant of the "No true Scotsman" fallacy. He's 2 for 2.
72mespo 2 weeks ago
@72mespo Spot on about the fear/victim basis. To be honest I never saw it before. But it's a bit scary how both oldschoolsaint and capon33 dismiss the 8,000 children abused as if it doesn't matter.
Could you imagine how much good the Catholic church could do if they went after child rape as much as they do birth control? I guess they won't be for contraception until we evolve into a species where young boys can get pregnant.
hersheystaste4life 2 weeks ago
@hersheystas If you have a Church based on human sacrifice what's a few thousand kids' innocence? If you some interesting discussion read my debate with domzaidan or mariomusicmadness. You can see how facts are irrelevant to them. They want affirmation not information. You could prove the validity of the Church to me in 30 seconds. Just have the deity or priest restore an amputee's leg. There is nothing I can prove to them to make them disavow the religion. This is for the fair-minded observers.
72mespo 2 weeks ago
@72mespo And a fair-minded observer I am. By the way, thank you very much for spending your time and sharing your wisdom with me.
hersheystaste4life 2 weeks ago
@hersheystaste4life De nada. I'm saving minds not souls. Now I'm off to bed.
72mespo 2 weeks ago
@72mespo 2 Timothy 4:7 (I got a pen and crossed out the words 'kept the faith' and replaced it with 'remained fair-minded')
A rest well-earned! Goodnight!
hersheystaste4life 2 weeks ago
@72mespo I am amazed that so much ignorance could be packed in such a small space. Quite an accomplishment. Your position on the constitutionality of the mandate?
oldschoolsaint 2 weeks ago
@oldschoolsaint I'm amazed that you have nothing to say in defense of the faith except a personal attck on me. It means I must be doing something right -- and you simply don't like it. The mandate is clearly constitutional because it contains an exception for purely religious entitiies. What's got the clergy's panties in a knot is that not every Catholic employer is exempt. That's never been required for religious freedom under the Const. Let me know if need cites. Another church power grab.
72mespo 2 weeks ago
@72mespo The cites please. I assume they will defend the government's right to compel individuals and institutions to purchase products and services for third parties that violate the religious principles the above noted individuals and institutions. I eagerly await your response.
oldschoolsaint 2 weeks ago
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oldschoolsaint 2 weeks ago
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@hersheystaste4life You are not as slick as you think my friend. You can not defend your position on the subject matter of this thread so you drag out your red herring and expect me to follow. I will not. The contraception mandate is unconstitutional and morally reprehensible. You want to defend the new law or obfuscate? Now, if you want to concede on the issue of the mandate I would be happy to obliterate your other assertions. You game for it?
oldschoolsaint 2 weeks ago
@72mespo Pope Ben Quote: "Today that consensus has eroded significantly in the face of powerful new cultural currents which are not only directly opposed to core moral teachings of the Judeo-Christian tradition, but increasingly hostile to Christianity as such." And in case you've forgotten our faith predicts a time of great tribulation during which the Church will undergo a great persecution.You have to deny all of Church teaching, scripture and history to assert what you have asserted.
oldschoolsaint 2 weeks ago
@oldschoolsaint And to Pope Ben I say "Bully for That." It's about time to move away from those misogynistic fairy tales. That great tribulation has been "predicted" to be right around the corner since the First Century. You'd know that if you knew Church history. Since no one knows when that it will happen or even if it will happen your concern is misplaced. Would you like a list of Biblical predictions that didn't occur when predicted?
72mespo 2 weeks ago
@72mespo Need I point out the logical fallacy of your assertion? Yes, I'd like to see the list if you don't mind.
oldschoolsaint 2 weeks ago
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@72mespo You say "Truth is oldschool is about as atheistic as it comes -- just that he limits it to every other religion but his own. He's living proof of the fear/victim basis of most Western religions." What on earth does that mean?
oldschoolsaint 2 weeks ago
@oldschoolsaint It means you don't spend one waking minute worrying about the Qu'ran teaching that failing to believe in Islam will send you to Hell upon your death. You're an atheist to that religion as your are to all the others that make exclusive claims to salvation through them. As for the fear/victim part take a look at your postings of dire consequences. First you tell us the Church is under attack and then you tell us we're going through a tribulation as a result. See, paranoia and fear.
72mespo 2 weeks ago
@72mespo The puerile "We're all atheists about some god, I'm just atheist about one more" line makes no sense. Atheism is the universal denial of the existence of god, or ANY god. If one is an "atheist" toward a god, by definition one is atheist toward all gods. Particular denial of a god (e.g. Allah, Zeus, Yahweh, Odin) and full-blown atheism are completely separate things.
carnivorousslushee23 2 weeks ago
@72mespo I think you are very very confused about what it means to be an atheist. The Muslim, Jew and Christian are each MONOTHEISTS. You CANNOT be a monotheist and an atheist at the same time. ...You may be right about my paranoia but I'm completely right about the current persecution of the Church. Do you see? There is no contradiction there.
oldschoolsaint 2 weeks ago
@72mespo Could you clarify on the bit about the No True Scotsman example? I don't quite see where it is, but if you could point it out, I might be able to properly comment on it.
carnivorousslushee23 2 weeks ago
@carnivoros Sorry, you're late to the party. This debate is over and while I'd like to do a point by point refutation time just doesn't permit it. Just one historical point about MLK from one who lived through it. King believed in nonviolence and peaceful protest, a tactic he learned from Gandhi. The Civil Rights Movement was about changing the law not picking up ecclestiatical marbles, going home, and then grumbling about victimhood. Real victims never wallow in it like those whiny Churchmen.
72mespo 2 weeks ago