Andy Warhol, Tracey Emin, Jeff Koons, Mcdonalds, burger king, lil wayne, hannah montana, justin bieber, twilight= Modern art is getting fucking slaughtered
hey estan long time no see. went on the old myspace, refound your YT. this vid reminds me when pohran invited an experimental musician to class and he demonstrated some minimalist improvisational music where a group of musicians just gets together and plays a random sequence of notes, and they're supposed to react emotionally to what they're hearing the others do through sound. so literally the only people who can appreciate it is the musicians, and it can only be appreciated in real time, once.
@sdrawkcabgnipytmi Yeah arguably. Most of them were very popular with the intellectual elite in their region. But that's not a huge portion of the population. And the composers of the 20th century probably had an even narrower popularity.
I know jack and shit about music................yet I hate modern pop.........didn't like the old stuff either.............I hate classical music...........yet I fucking love Griegs (sp) Hall of the Mountain King. (from a symphony that makes me pumped like almost nothing else) I think music is a bad comparison of the times due to lack of knowledge of the listeners. Autotune is the steroids of music. I miss the live shows........then again....I've never been to one.
In my mind, "art" is one of the methids we use to express ourselves when using words or simple duplication does not suffice. Poetry is trying to achieve this by using words, and music is also pretty effective, allthough I preffer to divide music into "concrete" and "abstract" as well. I should probably make a vid about this some time.
Very good points. Someone argued in the comments of another video, though, that if nobody gets it it's a bad joke. I guess that depends on why the joke is ungettable. A joke is usually funnier the more clever it is, and if it is too clever for anyone to get it, it is in a sense immensely funny. Or... has a great funvalue, even if no one can access it.
On the other hand... I guess the other hand is your second point. If no one gets it then no one will have any fun with it and so it's a bad joke.
I agreed with the first part, however i would argue the premise is faulty on the second part. A good can opener open cans well. You may be able to open a can with a car, but you can't say a F-150 is a better vehicle because it opens cans better than a Testerossa. Firefighters fight fires, which please people. Artists express themselves. It may make people, but that's not really what makes artists good.
@AceOfSevens mm I guess. But in terms of what's moral and what's immoral I would say it has to do with which actions improve people's lives and which don't.
So the artist that can improve the most peoples' lives is doing the most moral good in one sense.
"What do you think an artist is? An imbecile who has only his eyes if he is a painter, or his ears if he is a musician, or a lyre at every level of his heart if he is a poet, or, if he is merely a boxer, only his muscle? On the contrary, he is at the same time a political being, constantly alert to the heartrending, burning, or happy events in the world, molding himself in their likeness.” ~Picasso
Well on one extreme, you're expressing yourself in complex ways, allowing to compress more information into a smaller volume, but no one else understands it. On the other, you're going to the lowest common denominator that everyone can understand (which is why 80% of Nickelback's songs are about love/lust). One might say art is useless if it can't communicate, on the other, if it's just to communicate what you feel inside to the outside world, it may have done it's job. It's a good question.
@HEIBAOSHEN But even art that people think is "good" which makes people feel bad normally has some kind of cathartic quality, or else it's giving a message which will help people change to be better; i.e. reminding people of how not to act, or something. Like for me when I see Picasso's Geurnica I'm like "SHit!" and feel pretty bad, but if everyone could get that feeling looking at art, there'd be less civilian bombings.
@TuplaPekka Yeah true, I admitted on one of the video responses that I actually respect Lady Gaga and think that she does have a certain kind of genius, mostly one for image and marketing. Her music annoys me though.
@ubergossen I like the fact that she is a better singer than... lets say miley cyrus or brittney spears but I hate the fact that she isnt really trying to make better music than her less talented advisorys. she tried but realized that to be popular you have to lower yourself to the bottom of the pyramid.
It's funny because i can relate the theory you suggested to what i listen to, and people reactions to it.
I listen to a wide variety of Metal which usually incorporates classical, opera and folk music. More recently, i have been getting into technical death metal, due to the complexity of the music. It would seem i crave complexity as a form of art. Other people find my tastes bizarre, who would only listen to the radio.
Love the cuts. Authority can often not be trusted when it comes to this art.
A good test is if it stands the test of time. No one will be listening to 50 cent in 10 years, although he was one of the most selling artists.
I dont think time will be kind to John Cages 4:33" as it is just a lame gimmick which maybe worked in a context of artistic curiosity and boundary seeking.
It's possible that there is art which has flashes of popularity; most radio pop. Then there's art which may not be the most listened to/seen at any given time but remains somewhat popular throughout the ages and therefore has a larger audience in the long run. In a hundred years people will probably still listen to Mozart but probably not many will listen to Nickleback.
As a musician...art is as much about the creation process.... as it is the end product... and even if there is an "end product" (a recorded work) the *live* reproduction will be different, and often change due to the situation it is played in, and how involved the audience is with you. There is as much "art" in the interpretation of the expression as there is "art" in the expression there of.... does that make sense? The finished product IS art... as is the process is the creation of the art....
An element of art quality that I find harder to define is like... the self limited variety, like 8 bit music or black and white ink drawings, where the goal is not an exhibition of skill and detail but of impression. I guess what I mean is that skilled realism can capture a moment, but limited art lets the mind fill in the blanks and gives experiences that resonate with the appreciator.
Following this line of thought, Nickleback is like a photograph, and Mozart is like an ink sketch.
Way to drop the 'N' bomb...I think of Nickelback as a tool utilized by police forces in hostage situations. They simply blare the newest album at intense decibels towards the commotion, leaving the hostage takers stunned, disoriented and curled up on the ground in the fetal position. More effective than tear gas and rubber bullets combined.
Very good, but the Mozart/Nickelback comparison didn't really feel right to me.
Wasn't Mozart, like all other artists, only appreciated by the musical elite (aka the rich peepz)?
The reason, I think, massmedia allows Nickelback to succeed is that music is now widely available, to the masses. Back in the late 1700s only the elite even bothered seeking out talent, they were the only ones with both money and time to do so, the peasants entertained themselves with their folksongs etc, kthx.
@Munkatten yup true. But that's kindof what I saying, Nickleback definitely has a much bigger fan base than Mozart did in his time, and probably more people listen to Nickleback right now than Mozart as well. A lot of people would say that Mozart was a much better composer (myself included), but Nickleback brings joy to the masses.
Both the Abduction for the Seraglio and the Magic Flute were originally performed at the Theater auf der Wieden in the suburbs of Vienna, both were in the common language German and the elite wanted their opera in Italian.
The story goes that Verdi left out the tenor aria in the last act of Rigoletto until the final rehearsal. And his intuition was correct, the day after the first performance every gondolier in Venice was singing it.
Back in the days of radio, one could go the Carnegie Hall in NYC for free to hear the live broadcast of the Longine Symphonette or the Bell Telephone Hour using members of the NY Symphony and featuring many stars from Jascha Heifetz to Bing Crosby.
What we now consider music for the elite was pretty commonplace in the movies and on the radio, sometimes even in its pop version.
Andy Warhol, Tracey Emin, Jeff Koons, Mcdonalds, burger king, lil wayne, hannah montana, justin bieber, twilight= Modern art is getting fucking slaughtered
From food to visual art.
Utterly slaughtered by bullshit.
RyanDemaree 3 weeks ago
hey estan long time no see. went on the old myspace, refound your YT. this vid reminds me when pohran invited an experimental musician to class and he demonstrated some minimalist improvisational music where a group of musicians just gets together and plays a random sequence of notes, and they're supposed to react emotionally to what they're hearing the others do through sound. so literally the only people who can appreciate it is the musicians, and it can only be appreciated in real time, once.
NORTHERNKONFLIKT 1 year ago
that's why the best music is multidimensional - pop music with many deep and profound layers and intricacies.
foxybox11 1 year ago
@foxybox11 yeah actually I agree completely
ubergossen 1 year ago
"If something is popular then it's not great art."
Weren't most of the great classical composers quite popular in their day?
sdrawkcabgnipytmi 1 year ago
@sdrawkcabgnipytmi Yeah arguably. Most of them were very popular with the intellectual elite in their region. But that's not a huge portion of the population. And the composers of the 20th century probably had an even narrower popularity.
ubergossen 1 year ago
I know jack and shit about music................yet I hate modern pop.........didn't like the old stuff either.............I hate classical music...........yet I fucking love Griegs (sp) Hall of the Mountain King. (from a symphony that makes me pumped like almost nothing else) I think music is a bad comparison of the times due to lack of knowledge of the listeners. Autotune is the steroids of music. I miss the live shows........then again....I've never been to one.
Thulgore 1 year ago
hahahaha nickel back does suck hahahaha
GuruBoards 1 year ago
After watching your video I had to go and watch "how u remind me" again. That guy's such a melodramatic pussy
spinkwotzer 1 year ago
@spinkwotzer haha. That's probably their best song actually, they only got worse after that
ubergossen 1 year ago
8.04-8.11 Dude, you're gonna make me cry - seriously
spinkwotzer 1 year ago
In my mind, "art" is one of the methids we use to express ourselves when using words or simple duplication does not suffice. Poetry is trying to achieve this by using words, and music is also pretty effective, allthough I preffer to divide music into "concrete" and "abstract" as well. I should probably make a vid about this some time.
sp4zzer 1 year ago
how are you friend?
ooglebydoogleby 1 year ago
@ooglebydoogleby Doing quite well actually, thanks for asking, and yourself?
ubergossen 1 year ago
@ubergossen Ok not working at the moment.
ooglebydoogleby 1 year ago
@ooglebydoogleby hope you find work soon, unless you're voluntarily unemployed, then live it up!
ubergossen 1 year ago
@ubergossen sort of a bit of both
ooglebydoogleby 1 year ago
Very good points. Someone argued in the comments of another video, though, that if nobody gets it it's a bad joke. I guess that depends on why the joke is ungettable. A joke is usually funnier the more clever it is, and if it is too clever for anyone to get it, it is in a sense immensely funny. Or... has a great funvalue, even if no one can access it.
On the other hand... I guess the other hand is your second point. If no one gets it then no one will have any fun with it and so it's a bad joke.
volbla 1 year ago
@volbla Thanks. Yeah, basically what I think exactly.
ubergossen 1 year ago
I agreed with the first part, however i would argue the premise is faulty on the second part. A good can opener open cans well. You may be able to open a can with a car, but you can't say a F-150 is a better vehicle because it opens cans better than a Testerossa. Firefighters fight fires, which please people. Artists express themselves. It may make people, but that's not really what makes artists good.
AceOfSevens 1 year ago
@AceOfSevens mm I guess. But in terms of what's moral and what's immoral I would say it has to do with which actions improve people's lives and which don't.
So the artist that can improve the most peoples' lives is doing the most moral good in one sense.
ubergossen 1 year ago
"What do you think an artist is? An imbecile who has only his eyes if he is a painter, or his ears if he is a musician, or a lyre at every level of his heart if he is a poet, or, if he is merely a boxer, only his muscle? On the contrary, he is at the same time a political being, constantly alert to the heartrending, burning, or happy events in the world, molding himself in their likeness.” ~Picasso
3rdeye7thdimension 1 year ago
Well on one extreme, you're expressing yourself in complex ways, allowing to compress more information into a smaller volume, but no one else understands it. On the other, you're going to the lowest common denominator that everyone can understand (which is why 80% of Nickelback's songs are about love/lust). One might say art is useless if it can't communicate, on the other, if it's just to communicate what you feel inside to the outside world, it may have done it's job. It's a good question.
3rdeye7thdimension 1 year ago
@3rdeye7thdimension Thanks. And great Picasso quote.
ubergossen 1 year ago
You can be social or you can be free. I don't think art is meant to bring joy but communication of things not easily digestible by words or action.
HEIBAOSHEN 1 year ago
@HEIBAOSHEN The creation of art is action, or the action could be the art, depending on the medium (martial arts for instance.)
3rdeye7thdimension 1 year ago
@HEIBAOSHEN But even art that people think is "good" which makes people feel bad normally has some kind of cathartic quality, or else it's giving a message which will help people change to be better; i.e. reminding people of how not to act, or something. Like for me when I see Picasso's Geurnica I'm like "SHit!" and feel pretty bad, but if everyone could get that feeling looking at art, there'd be less civilian bombings.
ubergossen 1 year ago
Liked that conclusion.
TheUltimateNihilist 1 year ago
@TheUltimateNihilist Thanks. Felt it summed up all my points pretty well.
ubergossen 1 year ago
there is a difference between lady gaga and nickelaback! one of them has talent!
TuplaPekka 1 year ago
@TuplaPekka Yeah true, I admitted on one of the video responses that I actually respect Lady Gaga and think that she does have a certain kind of genius, mostly one for image and marketing. Her music annoys me though.
ubergossen 1 year ago
@ubergossen I like the fact that she is a better singer than... lets say miley cyrus or brittney spears but I hate the fact that she isnt really trying to make better music than her less talented advisorys. she tried but realized that to be popular you have to lower yourself to the bottom of the pyramid.
TuplaPekka 1 year ago
@TuplaPekka
they both suck
4jonah 1 year ago
Allow me to respond with my own example of "Art?".
Well said ubergossen, I think your idea is accurate.
quexalcoatl 1 year ago
this is a great video. its lonely at the top.
Get2TheDeLorean 1 year ago
It's funny because i can relate the theory you suggested to what i listen to, and people reactions to it.
I listen to a wide variety of Metal which usually incorporates classical, opera and folk music. More recently, i have been getting into technical death metal, due to the complexity of the music. It would seem i crave complexity as a form of art. Other people find my tastes bizarre, who would only listen to the radio.
Amen to Nickelback sucking..........
powerslave118 1 year ago
Art is that which inspires.
Hellraiser717 1 year ago
Love the cuts. Authority can often not be trusted when it comes to this art.
A good test is if it stands the test of time. No one will be listening to 50 cent in 10 years, although he was one of the most selling artists.
I dont think time will be kind to John Cages 4:33" as it is just a lame gimmick which maybe worked in a context of artistic curiosity and boundary seeking.
CognosSquare 1 year ago
@CognosSquare Yeah I thought about it too.
It's possible that there is art which has flashes of popularity; most radio pop. Then there's art which may not be the most listened to/seen at any given time but remains somewhat popular throughout the ages and therefore has a larger audience in the long run. In a hundred years people will probably still listen to Mozart but probably not many will listen to Nickleback.
ubergossen 1 year ago
As a musician...art is as much about the creation process.... as it is the end product... and even if there is an "end product" (a recorded work) the *live* reproduction will be different, and often change due to the situation it is played in, and how involved the audience is with you. There is as much "art" in the interpretation of the expression as there is "art" in the expression there of.... does that make sense? The finished product IS art... as is the process is the creation of the art....
brianthemayan 1 year ago
@brianthemayan yeah you sound like a jazz musician.
But yeah I agree.
ubergossen 1 year ago
An element of art quality that I find harder to define is like... the self limited variety, like 8 bit music or black and white ink drawings, where the goal is not an exhibition of skill and detail but of impression. I guess what I mean is that skilled realism can capture a moment, but limited art lets the mind fill in the blanks and gives experiences that resonate with the appreciator.
Following this line of thought, Nickleback is like a photograph, and Mozart is like an ink sketch.
JoesephKatana 1 year ago
@JoesephKatana "Look at this photograph
Everytime I do it makes me laugh
How did our eyes get so red
And what the hell is on Joey's head!!"
ubergossen 1 year ago
I understood very little of that. Perhaps that makes it a better explanation.
ChaoticSupernova 1 year ago
@ChaoticSupernova Ha. Maybe they should create fire exit signs that are written in Shakespearean prose
Rulymiscreant1 1 year ago
I just handed in a paper on Humes essay "of the standard of taste". That adresses art and art critics. :P
ThSkBj 1 year ago
@ThSkBj i should read your paper... I'd have to put it through google translate first hah
ubergossen 1 year ago
Way to drop the 'N' bomb...I think of Nickelback as a tool utilized by police forces in hostage situations. They simply blare the newest album at intense decibels towards the commotion, leaving the hostage takers stunned, disoriented and curled up on the ground in the fetal position. More effective than tear gas and rubber bullets combined.
whacksteez 1 year ago
@whacksteez hahahahah
ubergossen 1 year ago
Very good, but the Mozart/Nickelback comparison didn't really feel right to me.
Wasn't Mozart, like all other artists, only appreciated by the musical elite (aka the rich peepz)?
The reason, I think, massmedia allows Nickelback to succeed is that music is now widely available, to the masses. Back in the late 1700s only the elite even bothered seeking out talent, they were the only ones with both money and time to do so, the peasants entertained themselves with their folksongs etc, kthx.
Munkatten 1 year ago
@Munkatten yup true. But that's kindof what I saying, Nickleback definitely has a much bigger fan base than Mozart did in his time, and probably more people listen to Nickleback right now than Mozart as well. A lot of people would say that Mozart was a much better composer (myself included), but Nickleback brings joy to the masses.
ubergossen 1 year ago
@Munkatten
Both the Abduction for the Seraglio and the Magic Flute were originally performed at the Theater auf der Wieden in the suburbs of Vienna, both were in the common language German and the elite wanted their opera in Italian.
The story goes that Verdi left out the tenor aria in the last act of Rigoletto until the final rehearsal. And his intuition was correct, the day after the first performance every gondolier in Venice was singing it.
EvenGodsSuffer 1 year ago
@Munkatten
Also ...
Back in the days of radio, one could go the Carnegie Hall in NYC for free to hear the live broadcast of the Longine Symphonette or the Bell Telephone Hour using members of the NY Symphony and featuring many stars from Jascha Heifetz to Bing Crosby.
What we now consider music for the elite was pretty commonplace in the movies and on the radio, sometimes even in its pop version.
EvenGodsSuffer 1 year ago
The comparison to reading is apt, I think.
DasAmericanAtheist 1 year ago
@DasAmericanAtheist Thanks for watching!
ubergossen 1 year ago