Fr. Barron comments on "District 9"

[Qu3stionMa7k]

is it weird that i'm actually using your videos to procrastinate?

[AMElRaheb]

I think your argument about Christ becoming a "Slave" to the the Father (non-violent, loving "Master"?) is interesting but it gives me a few questions. For one, if we are to be Christlike as Christians, then does it not follow that we should be "slavelike" and for another, isn't human progress an attempt to further become master over things (technology, resources, etc.) and thus an attempt to approach God?

[adonelahi]

That was really well done! Listen to this video he is Fr. Barron is doing a good job.

[newfrontier01]

Its been a great week here in Ireland. Our new priminister finally gave the pope a proper going over re: the lies, cover ups, and ongoing abuses of the catholic church in relation to innocent children. Telling him that the rule of law supercedes canon law. Not being from Ireland, you would never appreciate the control the church had on all levels of government, the police, and everyday people. The church was never questioned and we have a history of destroyed lives because of blind faith!

[jormorcastan]

Venter is creaking open the most profound door in humanity's history, potentially peeking into its destiny. He is not merely copying life artificially ... or modifying it radically by genetic engineering. He is going towards the role of a god: creating artificial life that could never have existed naturally."

[Mrdavid839]

Father, please see a documentary called "Earthlings". Please. It's very graphic but also a profound look at the industrial use of animals by humans. Afterwards comment if you can. I'm not trying to sound demanding, but you seem like the right fellow for it. It really is very moving. Peace be with you. I'm going to subscribe. It brings to mind the passage where the donkey asks the astonished man "Why are you hitting me?"

[jesaintlouis]

I loved this Commentary Fr Barron!

[ClarkKasheta]

I actually liked the movie, mostly because I thought it was imaginative. I did get the sense of a pro-life message, believe it or not; in that, Van de Meer was seen as a commodity, his body to be harvested. Of course, he avoided that in sort of a triumphant way.

[TheZombiesandvampire]

what about "case 39" & "2012" & "orphan & "drag mt to hell"

[PuraguCryostato]

@TheZombiesandvampire What about Serial Experiments Lain which is supposedly Gnostic?

[Giby86]

As an agnostic I'm always enlightened by Barron's words. About this one in particular, the only thing I object is the "but" sentence in the beginning: District 9 is sci-fi, BUT it's much more than that because it deals with social and philosophical issues. This is quite wrong and a little derogatory for the genre: I don't know how much of a sci-fi fan Barron is, but it wouldn't be good sci-fi in the first place if it didn't deal with such issues.

[PuraguCryostato]

@Giby86 Don't you think all cinema should reflect on social and philosophical issues, such as the human condition? :-) In terms of District 9 it is a South African film and we've had problems with xenophobia here. Foreigners from mostly other African countries have been attacked and sometimes murdered by thugs on numerous occasions and thousands have been threatened. I know quite a few such people here and they are often terrified that the violence may return.

[Giby86]

@PuraguCryostato Well, no, I don't think all cinema SHOULD do anything specific. What I was saying is that historically sci-fi (as a whole, not only in cinema) does precisely that: it imagines new worlds, new eras, new species to describe old or new social scenarios. I didn't like that "but" because it made it sound as if sci-fi is normally some sort of lowly enterteiment, BUT in this case it goes beyond, which is a completely wrong statement, even if it remains implicit.

[PuraguCryostato]

@Giby86 I don't think one needs concepts of new worlds to describe the human condition. We can do historical dramas to depict new worlds in the past on earth (discovery of America or Australia) or war on earth or famine or social isolation in the post modern society etc. I accept your point, just that I think one can portray these ideas well enough even in our contemporary society or the past without having to resort to almost space opera like scenarios or futuristic dystopias. Thank you. :)

[Giby86]

@PuraguCryostato Of course, I agree with every word. I didn't say that sci-fi is the only genre that deals with social issues, that would be spectacularly stupid. What I said is that sci-fi, GOOD sci-fi, almost always does. In this sense, District 9 is not an exception at all, but a worthy example of a strong tradition that begins with the birth of sci-fi itself.

[SONOFGODALSO]

why does this man need to share his opinion on everything? narcissism?

[wordonfirevideo]

@SONOFGODALSO And why do you feel the need to comment on so many of my videos?! Remove the plank in your own eye!

[RainBirdLori]

@SONOFGODALSO If you don't wish to watch Fr. Barron's videos, you don't have to. He is simply doing what he is supposed to do as a priest, preach and teach on the Gospel of God.

He provides a well thought out Catholic perspective analysis of the film. Fr. Barron is a trained theologian and some of us like learning to understand our popular culture through the lens of our Catholic faith.

"These three things remain: Faith, Hope and Charity. And the greatest of all is Charity."

Be charitable.

[KnightOwl2006]

I found this movie profoundly depressing and dark.

[BadaBingBadaBoom012]

Haha good grief, I thought it was a horrible and distasteful movie, but I suppose you can derive deep insights into anything and find it appealing. Why don't you comment on Star Trek and extrapolate it to humanities quest for Godhood and perfection and Christianity's promise for the meek?

[1seticat]

Father,

Re: UR comments on "District 19" & the master - slave discussion, do U Believe that this Philosophy emboldened Marxists in Central & South America to "hijack" the Church and its message by portraying Jesus as a revolutionary who came down to earth only for the poor. It seems that Jewish/Christian approach regarding master vs. slave shouldn't be defined as an either or? JP II had his hands full with this. Your thoughts Father?

[adstanra]

This is very intelligent commentary, but I think the Father is quite selective in his interpretation of the bible. True, the great prophets were unusually connected to the poor, perhaps revlecting a jewish history of being dominated by other cultures, but they also were very concened with distancing themselves from others ( goyim-gentile). they thought they were the chosen race and also were involved with ethnic cleansing and conquest of lands.

They were not the only ones ...con't

[adstanra]

concerned with the slaves. Bodvisattva budhists staved off their own enlightenment to become humble and help those suffering. Self sacrifice and empathy for the poor is not unique to Jews and christians..albeit is a central tenet of Judaism and Christianity....and Islam. I am not sure society would advance much if we all became Mother Teresas or Gandis..lol. I wouldn't like a society without empathy though. i wonder if humans are transcending here w globalisation?

It was an excellent film.

[PuraguCryostato]

@adstanra If we all (or vast majority) became half the saints Mt Theresa was, we as the human race would be colonising Mars by now and no doubt cured many of the causes of human suffering (disasters, disease, famine). Ghandi too was an outstandingly good man whom very few can approach. We need more people like that, not less. Life would not be more boring.

[adstanra]

@PuraguCryostato Well , i think we can thank scientists for most of the cures that have happened. MT, no doubt , felt great compassion for the sick, but it is not her ilk that finds cures.

[PuraguCryostato]

@adstanra No. I meant that if most of us were as loving towards other people as Mt Theresa was then the scientists among us would do their bit for mankind, the scientists themselves working for mankind out of love and not for personal gain in an environment which was more conducive to producing treatments and peaceful technology than bombs, spy technology and commercial nonsense. I'm not advocating Communism but saying that if we really loved others (esp enemies) we would improve the world.

[adstanra]

@PuraguCryostato Well, I am not a fan of MT, but I understand your point. I think that alot of scientists and doctors do work to alleviate disease for compassionate reasons, although they have to eat too. Fortunately the economy that we have created affords scientific discoveries.

[PuraguCryostato]

@adstanra It's true that many of us doctor scientists go into medicine for compassionate reasons which were inspired religiously for me at least, but I'm thinking more in general terms. If we were all much better people (even half as good as these saints) then there would be no need for war technology, no need to waste money on illnesses produced by bad behavior, no corruption, less evil and less money spent on rubbish music/media. We would focus on what's important - helping our fellow man. TY.

[PuraguCryostato]

@adstanra I don't advocate Communism or some socialism here but once you realise your work influences others positively that would be a great reward in itself. You may then end up earning less but your expenses would decrease too. If we all (or the vast majority) led moral lives then this world would be much better in all respects. One thing that we can note about these saints is the happiness they all had. But this change would have to come from each person voluntarily with the help of God. TY

[adstanra]

@PuraguCryostato great post , except for this ...lol

"But this change would have to come from each person voluntarily with the help of God'....

Not sure God has anything to do with it. But if it inspires people to compassion...I am fine with that.

take care.

[adstanra]

@PuraguCryostato well friend, can't argue with that...agree.

[wordonfirevideo]

@adstanra Well friend, keep reading the Bible. It doesn't end with the Old Testament! Paul saw with great clarity that the Lordship of Jesus meant the overcoming of any exclusivity based on race or religion. "In Christ, there is no Jew or Greek, slave or free, male or female."

[adstanra]

I am sad to say that christianity has not reflected this sort of inclusivity my friend, historically and even today.Difficult for a church to accomplish this when there are other passages that separate the sheep from the goats and the wheat from the chaff. Jesus simply rearranged the devisions to be christian or nonchristian, the saved vs the dammed. For centuries christian nations and people owned slaves and I am not sure of "no male or female". How many females are in the priesthood? lol

[clarkbailey1973]

@wordonfirevideo sorry meant this for adstanra, but as Fr said continue reading, The New Testament makes it clear that the children of Israel were called to eb a priestly nation to present God to the world, much of the Old Testament as you will see is how much they failed and had to be corrected. This is a poorly articulated argument, but read the Scriptures more...perhaps Father barron can articulate it much better than I can...

[Sarusource]

The bible starts by giving the stand point of the other.  Maybe though I don't see the story of Adam and Eve doing that. Anyhow so do many others including those who would propergandise. Mao, Stalin, Thatcher, Gengis khan - humble beginings. Monty Python 'When I was a lad I used to eat stones.' Oh yes, and District Nine. Christian religion is just another myth to be used in order to get and retain power. BTW I like the Barron. Should get a proper job though. Social worker or film critic

[tenj00]

Interesting Viewpoint. Thank you for this Video.

[ERoBB1]

I'm a complete atheist, and I wonder why the hell a priest does movie reviews. But this guy is good. Damn good.

And its really interesting hearing what he has to say, in relation to a non-disgusting view on the bible. Keep making these videos, I'll keep watching.

[Epydemic2020]

that was a good video.

[braddyboy82]

I will echo the last poster.

I hate putting a label on myself, but I guess I am an existentialist or a really lazy nihilist...

But I love this guy.

Incredibly insightful commentary and I have learned a lot about philosophy from his videos.

Keep up the great work, Father Barron!

He's Christian but without the preachy or judgey part of it.

[Panagioti]

Father Barron,

Although I do not believe in God, I LOVE your stuff. Please continue making these! Your comments are very insightful and interesting.

[GrumpyOldTroll]

Thank you, Father, for this interesting comment, which brings to mind these words of Our Lord (Matthew xxv, 40 & 45): "Amen I say to you, as long as you did it to one of these my least brethren, you did it to me. ... Amen I say to you, as long as you did it not to one of these least, neither did you do it to me."

[wolf1750]

What you say here, certainly does not apply to the OLD TESTAMENT, which is basically a selective and beautified history of a tribe, that considered itself to be "chosen" (God's chosen people) and special and ruthlessly eliminated "aliens", when they had a chance.

[wordonfirevideo]

Have you actually ever read the Old Testament? Take a good look at the stories concerning Abraham, Jacob, Joseph, Moses, Samuel, Saul, David, and Job and tell me honestly that you're dealing with a "beautified history!"

[wolf1750]

I have (mostly) LISTENED to both of them on my iPod, because the three bibles, which I possess, are all in too small print for my tired eyes. That's why I downloaded both testaments (in complete versions) for my extended travels. Believe me: I often fell asleep because of the endless repetitions. But I suffered through both testaments, which is more, than most bible-belt "true believers" can claim. I probably should have chosen "sanctified" instead of "beautified".

[Entropy3ko]

So the answer is 'no'.

You just listened to it carelessly.

[TELEMACUS800]

Mr. Wolf, if that is your contention, then write a protest to Emmanuel Levinas. You might want to read about Rene Girard's idea of the Bible being a "text in travail" in regards to issues of violence.

[wolf175]

Is WHAT my contention? And quoting Levinas, Girad and others is useless and an endless game. Even in YouTube alone there are several "atheists" - I know your disgust, when you use that word - who have read the bible more carefully than you and me together and written about it. It always depends on, whom you listen to, and the latter on, whom you WANT to listen to.

[TELEMACUS800]

Mr. Wolf, you might give your interlocutors, even though they are anonymous, a little more credit, considering the fact you know little to nothing about them and their educational background.

[wolf1750]

"Interlocutors", who see the renewed tsunami-suffering of innocents in the tv-news and, being asked, how a PERSONAL and merciful God could allow this to happen again and again, just piously roll their eyes (upwards) and answer: "We cannot know God's ways" are not partners for a serious conversation for me. They are just a miserable joke. Most "true believers" in the bible-belt are like this.

[Entropy3ko]

You(cliché) argument fails immediately because it does not take in acount that 'true believers', as you call them, believe that a human being as a soul that does not perish with the body.

Hence suffering and physical death are not the end of it.

If God, in his mercy, has a plan, that is far more complex than what a simple mind can grasp, I doubt it can be judge so rashly, after all you do not judje a painting by only looking at one small speck of it

[Entropy3ko]

I think it is often one of the main arguments of the 'new atheism' wave: They just assume that religious people are uneducated or stupid.

These ad hominem arguments however serve only undermine their position in the debate.

[hugopelland]

@wjb67ii

You are saying that believing in a god leads to rejecting slavery in a way that make it sounds as if it were a requirement, while it has nothing to do with it. Other people use the fact that believers contributed to scientific advancement as a way to ''prove'' that belief in a god can lead to discovering new scientific knowledge. Same principle, same problem.

[hugopelland]

''maybe you are correct and it is a coincidence that theists (mainly Christians and Jews) led in the ending of slavery''

-Yes, they could have believed in anything else so why not call it a coincidence...

''whilst atheists turned around and created the Soviet Gulags and Nazi concentration camps and so on''

-You just showed that you are an intolerant and ignorant person who discriminates non-believer...

[hugopelland]

''hugo...I never said believing in *A* god leads to the abolishment of slavery...I sadi that believing in *THE* God does.''

-This means exactly the same and is still irrelevant. Just to make it clear, yes, believing in a god (or YOUR God) can lead to considering slavery immoral, but the point is that you don't need to believe in a god to consider slavery wrong so the characteristic you are using is useless in that context.

[nta982]

great review... but another alien movie?!

do you take requests?

I'd love to hear a review on something a little more creative like Pan's Labrynth?

It's a fantasy/mythological film... but you're pretty gifted I'm sure you could draw sense out of anything... (a warning on some violent scenes)

cheers Fr

[nta982]

sorry.. typo... should be " Pan's Labyrinth "

[Catholicdrummer]

Another great job at relating popular culture to Christianity.

[hugopelland]

One question:

God does not make slaves? Can you explain that?

You mean no slaves were made following your god's order or you mean in everyday life your god will not enslave people?

Or that in the philosophical way of talking about slavery we are not slave, because we have free will?

I am asking that because obviously, the Bible is of no use to determine if slavery is morale or not and God seems to encourage it actually on a few occasions... no?

[TELEMACUS800]

Father Barron's reference is to Christ "who though in the form of God, does not deem equality with God something to be grasped, but instead takes the form of a slave." Catholics recognize that Christ is God, and in his Incarnation, God makes himself a slave. This is one of the privileged hermeneutics through which the Church interprets its Scriptures.

[hugopelland]

"Christ is God, and in his Incarnation, God makes himself a slave."

So if I get the point correctly, slave/slavery was used in the comment only in a metaphorical way?

[wjb67ii]

If one takes the bible as a whole rather than obsessing on certain passages ripped out of context you can see a "development of doctrine" which paralells the development of human capacity and culture. slavery was a deeply entrenched human practice long before Abraham became the father of monothesim. Humanity developed to an understanding of slavery gradually...and the biblical theism played a large role in that. This is a fact.

[hugopelland]

@wjb67ii

What's your point?

Are you trying to argue that the Bible, even though it does not label slavery as immoral, is still responsible, in part, for making people realize later on that it was not moral?

And what "fact" are you talking about? You mean that theism helped humanity realize that slavery was wrong? Does that imply that a belief in a god helps understanding that? I see no connection at all...

[wjb67ii]

I make a point about the historic fact of abolishionism, that is was deeply rooted in Christianity. Perhaps, during all those years of studying history, I missed the volumous information about the atheist wing of the movement. lol

[hugopelland]

@ wjb67ii

Ok you really meant what I thought you meant.

So, if you're so smart and well aware of the historicity of abolitionism, show exactly how believing in a god leads to the conclusion that slavery is immoral...

How is it different than: I have brown hair therefore I think slavery is wrong?

You're basically doing the same useless connection that other people do with Lemaître who proposed the Big Bang theory; as if the fact that he was Catholic had anything to do with it...

[wjb67ii]

hugo...I never said believing in *A* god leads to the abolishment of slavery...I sadi that believing in *THE* God does. Or maybe you are correct and it is a coincidence that theists (mainly Christians and Jews) led in the ending of slavery whilst atheists turned around and created the Soviet Gulags and Nazi concentration camps and so on. I don't have nearly enough space to take you to school on the inticacies and differences of Greek Roman Persian Babylonian and Egyptian slavery...(end Pt 1)

[wjb67ii]

(Pt 2) suffice it to say, however, your analogy is faulty since the common trait among abolitionists was NOT brown hair but indeed theism and Chrstianity. Again no room to school you on biblical exegesis...sufice it to say the main bible passage would have to be from Exodus 20:2 "I am the Lord your God who led you out of bondange..." (repeated often in the OT). I know you are going to bring up the early passages of the OT in which Israelites took "slaves"...(end Pt 2)

[wjb67ii]

(Pt 3) ...but as I said at the start (and in deference to you I will repeat myself and type slowly so you will get it) the Bible is not a single volume of strictures but a record of a developing culture across many many centuries. Long stroy short the Jews were freed from bondage i.e. learned the evils of slavery and in the New Testament and the New Convenant that is no longer meant just for Jews but for all men. And NO I am def. not doing what you contend I am.

[muertos06]

Great video Fr. Barron. I particularly loved how you touched on the various philosophers regarding the slave/master relationship. And the way you wrapped up the video by noting how Christ, in his utter vulnerability, went into communion with the slave.

[muertos06]

Wow NwZ2, get over yourself.

[TheKorban]

I have an asignment on sociology on how society is formed and it's foundations, I may use this as the Master and servant is seen from as you say the times of Greece and still today all be it in the free world it is more a case of slaves to our selves but of course we still have our over lords who shape society in a way that insures suffering. An Ideology always has to have death to give life Hitler and Marx new this.

[havock89]

Awesome commentary Fr. Barron. God bless you and keep up the good work.

[corthew]

I loved much of what he said but I must point out that when the bible is describing how a slave should behave, that doesn't sound like its from a slave's perspective.

[jswranch]

Not sure how spot on you are, but I think you have a point. I agree that the OT is from the perspective of the slave. Much of the NT seems to be the perspective of a land owner coming to ransom the slaves and making them heirs. Yes, Paul does toss in a few lines on how a slave should act, but that does not seem to be the main message.

[NwZ2]

the MNU wasn't a part of the state; it was a private entity (iirc).

[Childinfaith]

The point is still valid though.

[NwZ2]

and??? Nothing in my comment indicated that I was arguing that it wasn't.

[Childinfaith]

And nothing in mine was calling you out.

[NwZ2]

so? You stated something unnecessary in a fashion (ie a response that took on the appearance of a rebuttal, regardless of what your intention behind it was) that created the illusion of a rebuttal.....why?????

[NwZ2]

In other words, if nothing in my statement called into question the validity of the point he made, then it's OBVIOUS that the point still stands (as it's assumed to be such until someone explicitly puts forth a rebuttal to it), so my question to YOU is: why would you, then, state something that's so obvious that it's redundant? The only reasonable response to such a reply (to my comment) is one giving you the benefit of the doubt, for it's better to be mistaken then to be saying nothing.

[PrincessDiana161]

Interesting. Haven't seen the movie yet so I'm glad this isn't a spoiler.

[NwZ2]

yes it is. it pretty much explains the ENTIRE plot of the movie (and it's inevitable conclusion).

[PrincessDiana161]

most of these sci-fi movies are pretty predictable anyway