BLASPHEMY This video is an explicit conception of spiritual stance, not performers. We do not see unfold this artist by finding a point artistisco scenes, but so mediucre ritualistic and involve ourselves with the concepts clearly anti-God have mercy crstãos him and people who support
Este video é EXPLICITAMENTE uma concepção de postura espiritual e nao artistica. Não vemos esse artista se desdobrar por achar nas cenas um ponto artistisco, mas sim de forma mediucre e ritualistica nos envolver com seus conceitos nitidamente anti-crstãos Deus tenha misericódia dele e das pessoas que o apoiam
personally, i don't think religion has anything to do with this work...christ is a universally understood symbol of a wholly "good" person made to suffer for unjust reasons. perhaps wojnarowicz was trying to convey the message that people suffering from aids are put in a similar place--turned into a mockery and considered "unclean" by those too ignorant to understand.
Art always offends. That is the beauty of it. You don't have to like this video, but that doesn't mean that you have any right to stop it from being exhibited.
It's far more disgusting to see just how many people come to the defense of their lying, child molesting, fear mongering church then to the defense of real people, children, and the lack of aid in our own country to help our own starving and diseased homeless families, That's the truly disgusting part of this whole thing. Just look at all the comments.
@deecee10000 That's why I hate liberals. You all think that you're so much better than everyone else and think that none of those feeble minded conservatives could ever understand the deepness of this hate speech. gag me
@Mojozipit I don't see it as hate speech & I believe in doing what is right despite politics since I'm human first. Also, if you were actually open minded, as you like to believe, you would see that most of the negative feedback posted by "conservatives" does show a hefty amount of ignorance when it comes to art. They believe in treating others such as the gay/lesbian minority as second class citizens, attacking their rights then start crying when that minority tells them to fuck off.
@Mojozipit Take for example, the Catholic Church and its downfall when its church leaders decided it was best to hide and ignore all of the child abuse that was going on for decades worldwide. . .What attitude do you suppose allowed that evil to continue? They chose to NOT do the right thing for what reason(s)? And what do YOU get from BLAMING THE VICTIM? Anything worthwhile? Anything "deep"? When powerful, corrupt, worldwide organizations attack small minorities, whose side are you on?
@ziyouniao321 What's more "disgusting"? . . .Seeing ants crawling on a piece of made-in-China plastic? . . .or people who still to this day support horribly, disgustingly, scum of the earth, corrupt church leaders, STILL GUILTY of covering up & deceiving when it comes to the rape & abuse of hundreds of thousands? I pray with all of my heart & mind that every low-life church leader who had ANY part whatsoever in the abuse of these kids burn in the deepest parts of hell for all eternity!
@ziyouniao321 You're disgusted? I would be much MUCH more disgusted with myself if I still supported an institution like the Catholic Church whose corrupt leaders are responsible for the raping of so many innocent kids. YOU & your church leaders are what are disgusting to me. . . FUCK. OFF low-life.
@IKeepRight Are you an expert on art? Didn't think so. Do you know anything at all about this piece or what was going on in this country when this piece was produced? Do you belong to one of the hate groups that attacks the equal rights of the gay and lesbian minority? Probably. Do you support church leaders & clergy responsible for the abuse of hundreds of thousands of kids worldwide? Probably. You're soul is MUCH more dead than any artist's. Your eternal hell awaits you.
Yeah, youtube isn't biased at all. They remove plenty of other stuff for ridiculous reasons and then this crap is accepted. I am so disgusted and offended. God have mercy on the soul of all those who "liked" this and for the "artist." This screams demonic from the depths of hell. God have mercy. I'm so sorry for the offense this has caused Him. It saddens me so.
How dumb are you? "God have mercy on the soul of the artist". Well... when "God" decided to allow the artist to get AIDS, this is how he reacted. Christians are so dumb! And facebook allows many things worse than this.
masturbation may not be stated itself in the Bible as sinful, however; the thought process that goes with it is. When a person masturbates you need some sort of pornographic stimulus to keep yourself aroused so you can finish the act, this is why masturbation is considered a sin, because of what you have to do to get there. You must think of a woman naked or performing some sort of sexual act, or whatever "gets you off", those are adulterous thoughts themselves, and are sinful.
19 years since David left, I thought I would watch 'Fire in My Belly'
Lol at people discussing religion here. I don't think David would give a damn shit about anything you (most of the time, fanatics) say. Go read some Rimbaud. Anyway, we all will be dead in some years and Sin-é. So if you think you will enjoy devoting your only years of consciousness to some fictional ideas in a book: go ahead. We don't give a fuck.
Also, do yourself a favor and don't reply to this comment. I won't care either.
I wonder if these faux-bible readers realize it's a rather big sin to pass judgment to others.... and they think David is in the wrong? He's done so much for everyone, including the judgmental sinners, and yet they shun and wish the worst on him.... who do you think would go to hell in the end? David: An incredible artist who stood up for other artists, medical research, etc. or a false-believer who passes judgment onto others? - I'm not even religious and I know this stuff.. . kinda sad.
@AdmiralFerret Oh, let me be an incridble artist and put anne frank dying covered with ants, or in a 'glowing yellow urine', how would that be? Would it still be art?
@TheAmazingamerica If you had a purpose for making it, then yes, it could.. and would be art. . . if your message is strong enough, it might even be considered great. . . people don't ever seem to take the time to learn the meaning behind the art. Take, for instance, that painting of a big black square on a canvas, most people think it's stupid, and not art. . . but the meaning behind it was that the artist believed that the square was the supreme shape in all of art, so he mixed many colors...
@TheAmazingamerica into a big square to show what he believes, and it's a widely recognized piece of art. . . I was unaware of so much before taking a class on Modern/Contemporary art appreciation, and now my eyes have been opened and I've learned so much about the world I love so much.
@TheAmazingamerica Well, no, I would have no reason behind it. I'm a firm believer that, to be considered art, the subject must have a reason to be created. [=
I do wish you weren't so hostile towards a world you don't understand.
@AdmiralFerret I wish u would not try to act like Jesus with Ants crawling on him is Art. The guy is paying for his art now so no worries. :) How about Anne dying of typhus in her black and white striped pj's? U could call it unclean2.
@TheAmazingamerica Once again, you go on not listening to anyone else other than your blind faith (which you stand untrue to). Go out, explore a new world, come back and tell me when you learn what this artwork is about, then we can talk again, okay?
@TheAmazingamerica One of the reasons artists sometimes use certain images to evoke strong emotion is because the society they are trying to communicate with is so thick headed it is the only way to get the message across. You seem to be a bit below average intelligence. You still don't understand something very basic. The fact is the artist had VERY good reason for making this piece of art. Your stupidity shows when you are unable to grasp something that simple.
@deecee10000 Oh so that's it! I'm too stupid to understand Jesus on the cross with ants all over him. Okay, I will be inspired to art up anne frank, she will have worms up her azz and her head in an oven. You will probably be too stupid to understand the artistic value.
@CaptainCrunchityzer That have a meaning towards it and the artist has feelings toward it. It was made, it is art. Does not matter if you like it or not. Still art.
@drdre707 David Wojnarowicz, he was an amazing artist and writer. He grew up with an incredibly difficult life. He was incredibly abused by his father, he was homeless in the streets of NYC by himself at the age of 15. He was doing and dealing drugs. He contracted the HIV virus, played in movies, he was an excellent debater and stood up for morals and censorship in the arts, artists' rights, and medical research. He had to actually fight to keep from being evicted while he died from HIV.
@TheAmazingamerica He went to hell? And you're sure of this? If you have THAT much hatred seething through your veins towards your fellow human beings, I believe YOU are the one living in your own hell. Hahah! You. are. an. idiot.
@deecee10000 hey, he made the video, not me. He has fire burning in his belly, LOL!! eternity is a loooonggg time. Too bad he had a crappy life, surfaced just to make a hate filled video of the one who would have taken him in like a mother hen to her chick, his father the devil will make his earthly father seem like little boy blue. hahaahha
@TheAmazingamerica Okay, I'll put it to you in another way. As a human being, whether you have a religion or not, you seem to be a really hate-filled individual. Your heart seems to exist for the purpose of pumping hatred through your veins. The fact that you are a self-proclaimed religious person makes no difference to me. Speaking from one human being to another, you are a lousy one for being such a hateful bigot. In YOUR case, your religion has made you into a lousy individual.
@TheAmazingamerica Do you honestly believe that by taking the side of bigotry, hatred and suppression of your fellow man, you will be rewarded with "heaven"? You are a fool who chooses to take the side of an ignorant beastly crowd, believing ignorance and hatred are pleasing to your "god". If you don't like seeing your plastic jesus covered in ants, maybe you should quit being such a hateful human being towards your fellow man.
@deecee10000 I'm not doing any of those things, I am just defending Jesus. Only evil people would think that was evil. This guy is in hell right now, u blame me? LOL
@TheAmazingamerica And you're a judgmental anti-christ? ... get outta here with your false judgments. . . who do you think is going to hell? You, who passes judgment to others... which is a sin by the way... or this guy, who stood up for morals and medical research for the better good of everyone, even the ignorant ones?
Does anyone find this kind of boring? And think the guy is simply gunning to do special effects in horror movies? Also, I love ants. They are some of the coolest creatures on the planet. God made them. A lot of these artists are simply going for shock value...well those who are shocked...he gotcha!
@joanellen100 This video is out of time . . it was made in the mid 80s . . . it does not project the times we live in now . . . it was different then . . . so to say this is boring is an opinion but you have to consider the mind set and times it was created . . . ' shock ' is relative . - dougie in austin
that it is irrelevant to draw similarities between the two. Whoever said the book of revelations was messed up just doesn't understand it. I think that if you are offended by this video or in that case any other thing that you yourself deem unacceptable then don't watch it, change the channel, flip the page, close the book but don't prevent others from experiencing the same delight and thought process that these enlightened individuals wish to convey.
so I'm writing an essy on censorship and its a synthesis essay so i had to look up different articles pertaining to the subject, in one of my searches i came across an article discussing the censorship of this individual and i blatantly disagreed because it is his freedom to express whatever he wants to. I saw this video and I still agree. Obviously this guy has been through alot being who he is and what he is. As for all of the discussions thats going on with the bible and stuff I think
It's not restricting the artist to express whatever he wants to. For one thing, he's passed on. Art galleries are not public forums. If I walk into an art gallery and try to hang my painting without permission, I can't argue that my free speech rights were violated when it's taken down. Try to step behind the veil of ignorance for a second: would you be happy if the government taxed you to fund an institution that put up an art work where Martin Luther King Jr. is covered in ants?
I would be ok with that. If it was in the name of art. this was meant to portay the reaction to AIDs. Art appreciation sadly only comes with education and/or openmindedness.
@joshthecartoonguy You're equating Martin Luther King Jr. to Jesus Christ? I'm not saying I'm going to go around posting this video on my fb account because well, yes its slightly offensive. However, this was in a gallery his ghost didn't go and put the video up against the wishes of the gallery. Nevertheless, I see what you're saying and for the record I don't appreciate you calling me ignorant.
I did not call you ignorant. I asked you to step behind the "veil of ignorance." The veil of ignorance is a concept in philosophy. The idea is that you take a hypothetical situation and pretend that you're ignorant of certain facts, like the color, religion, political party of the people involved. I was essentially asking you to look at it from another point of view. I was certainly not calling you ignorant, as that would be an ad hominem attack.
@joshthecartoonguy I think you're missing the point of the film. While I can certainly understand why you would be offended by the imagery, the context of the film is important. I interpret the film as a statement of frustration that some religious groups during the AIDS pandemic lacked compassion and understanding for AIDS sufferers. The artist had AIDS himself and passed away in 1992. Your comparison to MLK leads me to believe you aren't really taking into consideration the context of the work
I was aware of the context of Wojnarowicz's piece. Context matters but so does content. The reason I pointed out MLK was to show a hypothetical to demonstrate why people would be offended by an artist putting ants on any respected figure, and that it's often not enough for an artist to explain away the controversial nature of their art by claiming they "didn't mean to offend any one." In what context is it okay to ridicule MLK by say suspending an image of him in a jar of urine?
A lot of people don't know the context of Wojnarowicz's writings. He called Catholics cannibals and nazis because they were pro-life. He wrote that he fantasized about jabbing Catholic priests with syringes dipped in HIV-positive blood. When I take his own books into consideration, I doubt his inclusion of Jesus is accidental. If your message is "be more sympathetic of AIDs patients," juxtaposing images of Jesus with a penis to incite controversy doesn't help create sympathy.
@joshthecartoonguy I would say it's ok under some circumstances. One that comes to mind is the blatant hypocrisy that is within the black community when it comes to homophobia. MLK fought relentlessly for equal treatment of all people, yet when it comes to gays, they don't count? There are other contexts, I hope you don't need me to think THAT much for you. Regardless, I'm not so sure I would be keen on using MLK. Organized religion is far more dubious and shady than he is.
@joshthecartoonguy I re-read this and noticed a small flaw with the logic you use in your opening lines. Your comparison of wanting to hang your painting is irrelevant to the situation. The gallery CHOSE to use David's work. You said it yourself, the gallery is not a public area. The Smithsonian had the right to use what they saw fit. They don't have to say yes to every Joe Schmoe that comes in and wants to put up his work. It is their property. For politicians to come in and say you cannot use
I would oppose the government coming in and banning a museum from displaying this piece. What actually happened is a couple politicians asked the question, in these tough economic times, should struggling taxpayers have to support an institution that exhibits work like this. It's a museum's right to display art, but there's no constitutional right to receive government funding.
@joshthecartoonguy Uh, did you even read Boehner's statements regarding the piece? I think it's interesting you bring up "these tough economic times." If Boehner truly gave a toss about the situation that America is facing, the Tea Party loons wouldn't be so adamantly against a tax increase for those who make over a million per year. Really, by mentioning him in that context, you're doing your argument no favors.
@Twtichy Ok, and now we're getting into a tea party rant. Look, doofus, Boehner threatened to cut their funding. Boo hoo. Frankly, if an institution wants government funding, then they shouldn't do anything tax payers wouldn't like, because blue collar workers may ask why they have to be taxed to fund this type of art. How would you feel if you were taxed to pay for a "Christianity is the Only True Religion" art gallery at the Smithsonian? Would you want them to continue receiving your taxes?
@joshthecartoonguy I wouldn't like it, but still, I value freedom over artistic expression over (unnecessary) censorship. I certainly wouldn't go out of my way to ask that the works be removed. I just probably wouldn't go see the exhibition. It's really as simple as that. As I stated earlier, it's difficult to please everyone. How do we gauge whether or not a work truly offends the public? Who is the one to decide what is offensive and what is non-offensive?
@Twtichy We actually may agree on a lot. I value artist expression. I'm an artist! I'd be furious if the government banned this. But that doesn't mean I think the government must fund this kind of art. You're right, it's hard to determine what's offensive and what isn't, and these days, it's getting hard to determine what counts as art and what doesn't. One reason I think art institutions like the Smithsonian shouldn't accept or receive public funding is so they don't become dependent on govt.
@joshthecartoonguy this is precisely a restriction of artistic freedom & expression. To answer your comparison to MLK, I would be OK with being taxed for that. I would probably like to know the context of the work, but I wouldnt be outraged like many were by this. I value freedom and am usually against censorship. I can think of extreme cases where it may be needed, but nothing we've discussed, IMO, is extreme. Honestly, is Fire In My Belly more offensive b/c of the imagery or its truthfulness?
Second, my view on this work is very nuanced and not easy to fit into youtube comments. I think conservative guys like Bill Donahue are overly critical of art and ought to give artists a break. I think the liberal defenders of this piece are too quick to assume that anything conservatives hate must be great art. You accuse the black community of homophobia. I think it's more likely that a lot of them are Christians who believe in what the Bible says about ethical sexual behavior.
My final point is that this piece is undeniably offensive in nature. Sometimes art does that. I don't believe people should be able to ban offensive art, but I don't believe they should have to subsidize it with taxes. Wojnarowicz's piece may or may not be great art. Controversy aside, this is a pretty random, disjointed video. I don't see how it's artistically superior to many videos you can find on youtube, which don't get displayed in publicly funded museums.
@joshthecartoonguy I agree, it is offensive in nature, though mainly to those of the Christian faith. As someone who is not Christian, I'm not particularly offended. While the imagery in general is uncomfortable, random, and I agree, disjointed to see, I feel the message is definitely important and does tie it together in a semi cohesive way. To answer your question, the artist lived and was a part of the AIDS crisis. I'd imagine that is why his work would take precedence over other youtube vids
All of the people on here who are saying "Urgh, this isn't art" clearly don't understand the history behind the piece. Obviously it's not a pleasant video to watch, but that isn't the point. What's the point in art for art's sake?
@aarondirebear why does being pretentious stop it from being art? and how is it pretentious? he was only creating work about his life and his experiences. He didn't even create this for a gallery, he'd died before the work was ever shown publically. I'm not saying you have to love the video or love his work, but it IS art, clearly it's just not to your taste
@aarondirebear You should keep your thoughts to the convent crowd that might find them interesting, let the rest of modern society enjoy the beautiful work of arts by amazing artists.
How long after he made this movie did he kick the bucket? I bet he is in hell with ants crawling all over him. Think of it as art! I bet God even put him in a frame! LOL
@TheAmazingamerica You're "defending Jesus"? You're god is moulded plastic? How are you defending 'Jesus"? You are defending a cheap plastic cross made in China. If defending a plastic cross is more important to you than basic human rights, I would say you are the one who should be going to "hell". You're an idiot btw. . .just thought someone should inform you of that.
@yandre20005 Hahah! If you believe THIS is "weird", you obviously haven't read the "bible". Now THAT is some fucked up shit. Read the "book of revelations" for starters and if you don't realize it was written by a really reeeeeally fucked-up individual then you are either brainwashed or messed-up yourself.
@deecee10000 The dude is masterbating on youtube, ur arguement is invalid. Its like chat-roulete snuck its way into a film inspired by a bad LSD trip.
@Shintenzu wtf are you talking about? You're a fucking idiot who doesn't make any sense. Do you know what porn is? Have you actually read the Judeo-Christian bible cause you sound like you're just talking out of your ass.
@deecee10000 Erm my comment is about the obvious wanking in the video, dont make this a religious thing, Im just not in the mood for that kinda bitching.
@deecee10000 The only fucked up individual here is you along with the rest of these fucks. The only reason all of you fuckers care so much about the Bible is because no matter how hard you try, no matter how hard you deny, no matter how many reductionist, materialistc, purely naturalistic tactics you use -you can't escape it. If you truly thought the Bible was some messed up book that was merely a fairy tale, you would have buried it a long time ago, but you can't fucking do it, so you bitch.
@M3PanoS Hahah. You're so hateful. Must be the mythical Jesus in you eh? The reason people bitch about religions is because religious fanatics are often seething with hatred for other human beings. Religions have throughout history continually bred hate, bigotry, wars and ignorance. You are a good example of what religion does to the human mind and heart. You come across as a human being full of hate.
@deecee10000 You know Jesus teaches to love one another, but as a human, there is only so much spitting in my face I can take before I bury people like you. Jesus willingly took ALL the ridicule and mocking -all the punishments and false accusations for lowly sinners such as ourselves. I'm not God, sometimes I don't have the strength to do it when the world around is increasingly becoming a hate-filled orgy with Christianity in its crosshairs. (continued)
@deecee10000 You deliberately antagonize religious people and ridicule them because it's not in them to attack back, but if they do, you can then caricature them as evil, vile people as you did me. What am I supposed to do go to my grave being made fun of by someone as stupid as you? I could, and maybe I should, but on the other hand, then this ridicule will only continue on to others. That is why I completely hate you. All you do is play games to try and get others to fall to your level.
@M3PanoS Okay, I'll play with you. You're religion started it first! Wha. You can dish it out hiding in the midst of your crowd of bigots but you can't take it when someone reminds you that you are in fact a bigot. You also can't stand it when someone truthfully reminds you that your religion has been the cause of much killing, torture and wars throughout its history in many cultures throughout the world.
@deecee10000 No it didn't. Don't believe it? Fine, stay away from it. You on the other hand take pleasure in ridiculing the religion and people involved in it. I can't imagine any reason why if you think that it is a mere scam...
And no Christianity has NOT been the cause of much killing, torture and wars. If you want to go there, I'll reply to you after you come up with the same old objections...
@TheAmazingamerica Are you hoping your ignorance breeds more ignorance? Sorry you're outta luck with me. You have CHOSEN to be a bigot. You CHOOSE to follow a religion that teaches prejudice and bigotry are perfectly fine. Now you're crying like a baby because your hatred and prejudice are being called out. If a church or religion were to attack your family's basic human rights, based on their sex, skin color or nationality, would you support that church? I wouldn't. You probably would.
@deecee10000 I'm a bigot because I love Jesus? What does that make u? U r cheering at Jesus's murder and adding the ants to the story to fit ur fantasy rather than a resurrection. He really pizzed u off didn't He? LOL
@TheAmazingamerica So you actually believe that "Jesus pissed me off"? Wtf are you talking about? I don't even believe in your bible. Why would I be pissed off at something that doesn't exist? And what makes you think that your mythical "Jesus" would be a hateful bigot like you? I can't imagine a "heaven" full of bigots, can you? It sounds more like a hell where everybody hates each other because of their differences. You are on the WRONG path buddy.
@yandre20005 That's like saying 'You aren't an artist if you consider Klimt's paintings art!,' and so on.
Like the majority of art that has been made from the expressionist period on, this is an expressive piece, obviously. It requires the viewer to do a little more than sit on their ass in front of a screen.
The fact that I say that I can see his dick is probably enough to get my comment removed but the fact that he is the one pulling on his dick is perfectly fine.
Could anyone explaint the logic to me because I dont get it.
@Lifscomplicated The focus of the film & it's recent controversy revolves around it's use of religious themes, rather than the few seconds of masterbation, which speaks volumes about American's priorities regarding censorship. Had the complaints leading to it's censoring been about the masterbation scenes, the convo would have centered around that. But the complaints that got the film censored were from Catholics who deemed the use of religious themes to be offensive towards thier religion.
@md991free lol, and I only say that because I did try to explain to someone what it meant. They're just mad because ants are on a carving. I find it interesting that they're mad about that, and yet it's their religious people that create these sculptures of him bloody and dead, nailed and exposed. I bet Those bloody morbid images they have of him in their kitchen get ants on them though. Hopefully one day, this excellent piece of social statement will be back where it belongs in the museum.
@AdmiralFerret They are also mad because of the masturbation scene, and like I stated in my earlier statement, masturbation is natural and legal in America. No way in the bible does it state that it is a sinful act.
If you mock Jesus in America you might be thrown out of a museum, but if you mock Muhammed in any muslim country you DIE. Stay away from Religions kids.
@ohnoshedidntw8 Yeah you can choose to let the religious zealots kill each other off. They're always bombing and shooting each other in other countries as they have been for centuries now. Science is doing a descent job at educating the younger generations and evolution and knowledge will eventually kill the ignorance known as organized religion, but never quit fighting the TRUE good fight for your rights as a person. Let the gutless cower in a corner, but human rights are NEVER easily won.
@ohnoshedidntw8 Haha. Yeah, here in the US, this work of art being a prime example, if the Smithsonian decides to throw your art out, you will gain greater recognition and be seen by millions more people. For Wojnarowicz's piece, the resulting controversy of being thrown out of the Smithsonian has been what most contemporary artists only dream about.
@deecee10000 True, I´m here because of the controversy which Russia Today reported. It´s about time we force religion out of politics and schools and it´s time for them to pay taxes. This movie is appearently 2 decades old, but it had never been this popular just look at the video statistics, during this half years it has gained more views then during the past 3 years before
The only thing I have a problem with is 2:08-2:14. Should this be allowed on Youtube? I thought that sort of thing was frowned upon(Pulled). Oh crap no pun intended
THIS is art? Frankly I don't see what makes this art, and I can understand why anyone would be upset: the icon of Christianity is being treated irreverently. Not sure why crap like this even makes it into galleries - but then, 'artists' abound and there are plenty of fools with enough clout and money to patronise them. Disgusting, really.
@rascalrabbyt Art is not something to be defined. What makes art art is that one cannot dictate what it is & isn't. It holds a different meaning to each witness, regardless of it's intended message (or lack thereof). Just because you don't like or understand something does not make it is any less art to another person. The icon of Christianity is not used irreveretly, it serves a very strong symbolic message regarding the artist's religious upbringing conflicting with his homosexuality.
@smurfikinz He had every right to be pissed off at religious zealots at the time this video was made. In fact, gays and lesbians still have a right to be pissed off at religious zealots like the pope who preaches bigotry from the pulpit. If you choose to belong to a religion that teaches bigotry is somehow pleasing to your "god", you should not be scandalized when the enemies you have made treat you the same way you've treated them.
@deecee10000 I don't think it was specifically meant to offend so much as educate & provoke thought. In using Catholic imagery in such a gruesome way he re-instates the idea of Christ's own suffering & how it mirrors the suffering caused by his followers upon the homosexual community during the AIDS epidemic as well as throughout history. I've never understood people who condemn others ruthlessly yet get offended when the victim calls them out on thier own transgressions.
@smurfikinz Yes smufikinz, I understand that. The point I was trying to make to religious people who don't like this imagery is that being a bigot comes with consequences. They should not be surprised at what their hatred yields, especially during a human rights movement. The gay rights movement is proceeding fast compared to other groups for a number of reasons. One of the reasons is that many gays and lesbians such as Wojnarowicz have not been afraid to express themselves..
@deecee10000 The worst part of all is the fact that the points they try to use as an excuse for thier bigotry are completely against it. Christ would be ashamed of everyone who uses his name to justify the very things he preached against. If anyone is degrading thier Savior, it is them.
I'm an atheist, and this is just dumb. You don't put ants on a cross, burning jesus faces and church demolition in a video unless you want to offend christians specifically.
Regardless, this video is just plain dumb. Where do you even find music that bad?
@pfullinwider Do you know any of the history behind the video? Are you a musician or artist? It appears that you are trying to critique something while having little or no knowledge of it.
@pfullinwider Those who complain about this piece have no concept of how terribly mistreated and demonized gay people with AIDs were by the Christian church in the 80s. You're the dumb one.
i'm a catholic....i have no problem with this vieo...in order to understand it one has to know the idea of god dying for our sins....i dont have a problem with gays....if they're happy doing whatever they do then let them......i am not god to judge anyone or tell someone whats wrong from right....live and let people live.
Remarkable and disturbing...but it's not hard to understand why it would freak out the "real 'mercuns". Great courage shown by those who chose this for the exhibition.
Remarkable and disturbing...but it's not hard to understand why it would freak out the "real 'mercuns". Great courage shown by those who chose this for the exhibition.
Sorry misanthrope52607, I've been busy painting so I can't be here to remind you what a loser you are quite as often. I'm painting a big monster on canvas called "Evolution", biting the head off a 20th century plastic Jesus. A character in the background with the uncanny likeness of Glenn Beck is in the background looking like Munch's "The Scream"; the pope is standing next to him in similar expression. I'm hoping you like it since your opinion really matters to me. No. Really. It does.
@deecee10000 Painting?! If you paint as well as you think, I do hope some museum buys it. I would pay any amount of money to see your work and I'm not being sarcastic. I haven't laughed this hard in a long time. Look mommy? Lifting the ideas of others is my canvas and banal hatred is my medium! I'm not ordinary, Mommy!
@misanthrope52607 wow! You're STILL here. You're amazing. You get a cookie. UNfortunately, you REALLY shouldn't say too much about art, lest you make an even bigger fool of yourself. I'd like to offer you some (more) constructive criticism. You're coming across as someone who is arrogant to an extreme. You're narcissistic to an extreme, the likes of which I haven't come across very often. Get help. Seriously.
@deecee10000 Mommy, I real artist! Only I knowledagble enough to remark on artwork, not bad man! I paint monsters! Big monster "Evolution" canvas! Plastic Jesus gets head bitten and Glenn Beck Jesus screams like...Scream! Pope screams, too! We all scream because I create scary, Bitey Monsters!
But I share my cookies with bad man. One cookie. Rest are for me, Mommy. I am good boy.
@misanthrope52607 Your mind is too closed. You've labeled the concept for my painting as "hateful", I see it as honest and truthful. Are you being hateful by eating another animal's flesh? Is the thought of evolution and "Evolution" eating "Jesus" too honest for you? Is reality, the real "creation" your "Creator" "created", too ugly for you? You're scandalized by truth & honesty and put YOUR "hateful" labels on them. Your hatred is misdirected when you hate the messenger.
@deecee10000 Mommy, it is OK for me to make assumptions about people I don't know, but I can't tolerate it when others do the same to me! No fair, mommy! I know bad man is omnivorous! I know bad man is Christian! I know bad man loves pope! I know bad man is right-wing! I know bad man is straight! I know bad man is anti-human rights and I know most of all that the bad man hates me! I have to go now mommy. I have more monsters to paint. Roar! Grrrr!
fuck you christians
NOISEONOMICON 3 weeks ago
By the way, everything is a matter of reading Diamanda Galas, singer of this song is disgusting SATANIST, establish relationship Do not be silly!
anjjelo 4 weeks ago
BLASPHEMY This video is an explicit conception of spiritual stance, not performers. We do not see unfold this artist by finding a point artistisco scenes, but so mediucre ritualistic and involve ourselves with the concepts clearly anti-God have mercy crstãos him and people who support
anjjelo 4 weeks ago
BLASFÊMEA
Este video é EXPLICITAMENTE uma concepção de postura espiritual e nao artistica. Não vemos esse artista se desdobrar por achar nas cenas um ponto artistisco, mas sim de forma mediucre e ritualistica nos envolver com seus conceitos nitidamente anti-crstãos Deus tenha misericódia dele e das pessoas que o apoiam
BLASPHEMY
anjjelo 4 weeks ago
personally, i don't think religion has anything to do with this work...christ is a universally understood symbol of a wholly "good" person made to suffer for unjust reasons. perhaps wojnarowicz was trying to convey the message that people suffering from aids are put in a similar place--turned into a mockery and considered "unclean" by those too ignorant to understand.
danixdisaster00 2 months ago 8
@danixdisaster00 My words exactly.
noonewillplay27 2 months ago
@danixdisaster00, also, that if jesus were around, he'd be likely among the heroin addicts/AIDS sufferers of wojnarowicz' time - healing them.
BellHooksUrge 1 month ago
Art always offends. That is the beauty of it. You don't have to like this video, but that doesn't mean that you have any right to stop it from being exhibited.
tennisbabyjo 2 months ago 3
The person who made this had an INCURABLE disease! How anyone can expect him not to show his anger at the church during the AIDS crisis is an idiot.
SebastienCade 2 months ago
It's far more disgusting to see just how many people come to the defense of their lying, child molesting, fear mongering church then to the defense of real people, children, and the lack of aid in our own country to help our own starving and diseased homeless families, That's the truly disgusting part of this whole thing. Just look at all the comments.
the1tigglet 2 months ago
@BarFAN21 totally tubular bro, rock on
Mojozipit 2 months ago
@deecee10000 That's why I hate liberals. You all think that you're so much better than everyone else and think that none of those feeble minded conservatives could ever understand the deepness of this hate speech. gag me
Mojozipit 2 months ago
@Mojozipit I don't see it as hate speech & I believe in doing what is right despite politics since I'm human first. Also, if you were actually open minded, as you like to believe, you would see that most of the negative feedback posted by "conservatives" does show a hefty amount of ignorance when it comes to art. They believe in treating others such as the gay/lesbian minority as second class citizens, attacking their rights then start crying when that minority tells them to fuck off.
deecee10000 2 months ago
@Mojozipit Take for example, the Catholic Church and its downfall when its church leaders decided it was best to hide and ignore all of the child abuse that was going on for decades worldwide. . .What attitude do you suppose allowed that evil to continue? They chose to NOT do the right thing for what reason(s)? And what do YOU get from BLAMING THE VICTIM? Anything worthwhile? Anything "deep"? When powerful, corrupt, worldwide organizations attack small minorities, whose side are you on?
deecee10000 2 months ago
@Mojozipit But that would is round thing sure did throw you didn't it?
gray73 2 months ago
OH MAN THIS IS SO INSPIRING, IM GAY AND I LOVE SHIT LIKE THIS, ITS TRUE LIBERAL MENTALITY, DEATH TO CONSERVATIVE, BOOO THAT SHIT
BarFAN21 2 months ago
I am so disgusted
ziyouniao321 2 months ago
@ziyouniao321 What's more "disgusting"? . . .Seeing ants crawling on a piece of made-in-China plastic? . . .or people who still to this day support horribly, disgustingly, scum of the earth, corrupt church leaders, STILL GUILTY of covering up & deceiving when it comes to the rape & abuse of hundreds of thousands? I pray with all of my heart & mind that every low-life church leader who had ANY part whatsoever in the abuse of these kids burn in the deepest parts of hell for all eternity!
deecee10000 2 months ago
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deecee10000 2 months ago
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@ziyouniao321 You're disgusted? I would be much MUCH more disgusted with myself if I still supported an institution like the Catholic Church whose corrupt leaders are responsible for the raping of so many innocent kids. YOU & your church leaders are what are disgusting to me. . . FUCK. OFF low-life.
deecee10000 2 months ago
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ArwenStarLite 2 months ago
unoriginal and uninspired.
all the good artists are dead.
IKeepRight 2 months ago
@IKeepRight Are you an expert on art? Didn't think so. Do you know anything at all about this piece or what was going on in this country when this piece was produced? Do you belong to one of the hate groups that attacks the equal rights of the gay and lesbian minority? Probably. Do you support church leaders & clergy responsible for the abuse of hundreds of thousands of kids worldwide? Probably. You're soul is MUCH more dead than any artist's. Your eternal hell awaits you.
deecee10000 2 months ago
@deecee10000 Yes, I am an art expert. So your point is moot.
IKeepRight 2 months ago
@IKeepRight Reeeeeally? <<<<<-------- Liar yes, art expert. . .obviously not. List some of your credentials.
deecee10000 2 months ago
Yeah, youtube isn't biased at all. They remove plenty of other stuff for ridiculous reasons and then this crap is accepted. I am so disgusted and offended. God have mercy on the soul of all those who "liked" this and for the "artist." This screams demonic from the depths of hell. God have mercy. I'm so sorry for the offense this has caused Him. It saddens me so.
facebookdiva1 2 months ago
@facebookdiva1
How dumb are you? "God have mercy on the soul of the artist". Well... when "God" decided to allow the artist to get AIDS, this is how he reacted. Christians are so dumb! And facebook allows many things worse than this.
SebastienCade 2 months ago 2
typical behavior from these deviants. yet, the libturds call this art. sickening.
usaeagle1776 2 months ago
How exactly is this art?
BRANDONN2008 2 months ago
masturbation may not be stated itself in the Bible as sinful, however; the thought process that goes with it is. When a person masturbates you need some sort of pornographic stimulus to keep yourself aroused so you can finish the act, this is why masturbation is considered a sin, because of what you have to do to get there. You must think of a woman naked or performing some sort of sexual act, or whatever "gets you off", those are adulterous thoughts themselves, and are sinful.
ProTrickster 2 months ago
STRONZI PERVERTITI FIGLI DI PUTTANA!QUESTA SAREBBE MUSICA LOBOTOMIZZATI DEL CAZZO?MA ANDATE A FARE IN CULO MONONEURONI!!!
estremofilo 3 months ago
Gimmie an old Super 8 and a strobe light and I can make creepy videos too
CarlosIsDown 3 months ago
This is scarier than the flying devil monkeys from the Wizard of Oz.
emmers57 4 months ago 2
19 years since David left, I thought I would watch 'Fire in My Belly'
Lol at people discussing religion here. I don't think David would give a damn shit about anything you (most of the time, fanatics) say. Go read some Rimbaud. Anyway, we all will be dead in some years and Sin-é. So if you think you will enjoy devoting your only years of consciousness to some fictional ideas in a book: go ahead. We don't give a fuck.
Also, do yourself a favor and don't reply to this comment. I won't care either.
txelcat 6 months ago
I wonder how many people hating this video even know what its about......
AdmiralFerret 7 months ago
I wonder if these faux-bible readers realize it's a rather big sin to pass judgment to others.... and they think David is in the wrong? He's done so much for everyone, including the judgmental sinners, and yet they shun and wish the worst on him.... who do you think would go to hell in the end? David: An incredible artist who stood up for other artists, medical research, etc. or a false-believer who passes judgment onto others? - I'm not even religious and I know this stuff.. . kinda sad.
AdmiralFerret 7 months ago
@AdmiralFerret Oh, let me be an incridble artist and put anne frank dying covered with ants, or in a 'glowing yellow urine', how would that be? Would it still be art?
TheAmazingamerica 7 months ago
@TheAmazingamerica If you had a purpose for making it, then yes, it could.. and would be art. . . if your message is strong enough, it might even be considered great. . . people don't ever seem to take the time to learn the meaning behind the art. Take, for instance, that painting of a big black square on a canvas, most people think it's stupid, and not art. . . but the meaning behind it was that the artist believed that the square was the supreme shape in all of art, so he mixed many colors...
AdmiralFerret 7 months ago
@TheAmazingamerica into a big square to show what he believes, and it's a widely recognized piece of art. . . I was unaware of so much before taking a class on Modern/Contemporary art appreciation, and now my eyes have been opened and I've learned so much about the world I love so much.
AdmiralFerret 7 months ago
@AdmiralFerret great, so u should do some art with anne frank smoking in an oven. How about that?
TheAmazingamerica 7 months ago
@TheAmazingamerica Well, no, I would have no reason behind it. I'm a firm believer that, to be considered art, the subject must have a reason to be created. [=
I do wish you weren't so hostile towards a world you don't understand.
AdmiralFerret 7 months ago
@AdmiralFerret I wish u would not try to act like Jesus with Ants crawling on him is Art. The guy is paying for his art now so no worries. :) How about Anne dying of typhus in her black and white striped pj's? U could call it unclean2.
TheAmazingamerica 7 months ago
@TheAmazingamerica Once again, you go on not listening to anyone else other than your blind faith (which you stand untrue to). Go out, explore a new world, come back and tell me when you learn what this artwork is about, then we can talk again, okay?
AdmiralFerret 7 months ago
@AdmiralFerret sorry, too busy with my anne frank art.
TheAmazingamerica 7 months ago
@TheAmazingamerica I know you don't realize it, but every time you post something, you're make yourself and your side look totally stupid.
deecee10000 7 months ago
@TheAmazingamerica Awesome, I'd love to see it when it's finished!
AdmiralFerret 7 months ago
@TheAmazingamerica One of the reasons artists sometimes use certain images to evoke strong emotion is because the society they are trying to communicate with is so thick headed it is the only way to get the message across. You seem to be a bit below average intelligence. You still don't understand something very basic. The fact is the artist had VERY good reason for making this piece of art. Your stupidity shows when you are unable to grasp something that simple.
deecee10000 7 months ago
@deecee10000 Oh so that's it! I'm too stupid to understand Jesus on the cross with ants all over him. Okay, I will be inspired to art up anne frank, she will have worms up her azz and her head in an oven. You will probably be too stupid to understand the artistic value.
TheAmazingamerica 7 months ago
@deecee10000 maybe I will put anne frank in a sex scene with hitler and her dad at the same time? That will be very artsy!
TheAmazingamerica 7 months ago
Why dont you do a video of Mohammed with Ants crawling on him you worthless coward atheist.
dttvcritic 7 months ago
@dttvcritic he is a xew.
TheAmazingamerica 7 months ago
@CaptainCrunchityzer That have a meaning towards it and the artist has feelings toward it. It was made, it is art. Does not matter if you like it or not. Still art.
uhhguy 7 months ago
@CaptainCrunchityzer Sorry man, but art isn't just pictures of cottages and sculptures of angels.
uhhguy 7 months ago
@drdre707 David Wojnarowicz, he was an amazing artist and writer. He grew up with an incredibly difficult life. He was incredibly abused by his father, he was homeless in the streets of NYC by himself at the age of 15. He was doing and dealing drugs. He contracted the HIV virus, played in movies, he was an excellent debater and stood up for morals and censorship in the arts, artists' rights, and medical research. He had to actually fight to keep from being evicted while he died from HIV.
AdmiralFerret 8 months ago
@drdre707 and after all that, he made a life for himself as an artist, I don't think he was the one in need of help.
AdmiralFerret 8 months ago
@AdmiralFerret he was a christ hating xew. Too bad he got aids and went to hell before he could repent. hee hee.
TheAmazingamerica 7 months ago
@TheAmazingamerica He went to hell? And you're sure of this? If you have THAT much hatred seething through your veins towards your fellow human beings, I believe YOU are the one living in your own hell. Hahah! You. are. an. idiot.
deecee10000 7 months ago
@deecee10000 hey, he made the video, not me. He has fire burning in his belly, LOL!! eternity is a loooonggg time. Too bad he had a crappy life, surfaced just to make a hate filled video of the one who would have taken him in like a mother hen to her chick, his father the devil will make his earthly father seem like little boy blue. hahaahha
TheAmazingamerica 7 months ago
@TheAmazingamerica Okay, I'll put it to you in another way. As a human being, whether you have a religion or not, you seem to be a really hate-filled individual. Your heart seems to exist for the purpose of pumping hatred through your veins. The fact that you are a self-proclaimed religious person makes no difference to me. Speaking from one human being to another, you are a lousy one for being such a hateful bigot. In YOUR case, your religion has made you into a lousy individual.
deecee10000 7 months ago
@deecee10000 and how did my 'religion' make me a hateful bigot? First, r u saying I'm a bigot because I don't like Christ covered with ant video's?
TheAmazingamerica 7 months ago
@TheAmazingamerica Do you honestly believe that by taking the side of bigotry, hatred and suppression of your fellow man, you will be rewarded with "heaven"? You are a fool who chooses to take the side of an ignorant beastly crowd, believing ignorance and hatred are pleasing to your "god". If you don't like seeing your plastic jesus covered in ants, maybe you should quit being such a hateful human being towards your fellow man.
deecee10000 7 months ago
@deecee10000 I'm not doing any of those things, I am just defending Jesus. Only evil people would think that was evil. This guy is in hell right now, u blame me? LOL
TheAmazingamerica 7 months ago
@TheAmazingamerica And you're a judgmental anti-christ? ... get outta here with your false judgments. . . who do you think is going to hell? You, who passes judgment to others... which is a sin by the way... or this guy, who stood up for morals and medical research for the better good of everyone, even the ignorant ones?
AdmiralFerret 7 months ago
This video is offensive its just plain messed up, who ever you are seek help
drdre707 8 months ago
Miss you david . . . thank you for your art . . .
deepbluehue3 8 months ago 2
I'm so scared. ToT
thehypercookie 9 months ago
Oh why did I watch this lol.. it's so distressing
SeargentConrad 9 months ago
Does anyone find this kind of boring? And think the guy is simply gunning to do special effects in horror movies? Also, I love ants. They are some of the coolest creatures on the planet. God made them. A lot of these artists are simply going for shock value...well those who are shocked...he gotcha!
joanellen100 10 months ago
@joanellen100 This video is out of time . . it was made in the mid 80s . . . it does not project the times we live in now . . . it was different then . . . so to say this is boring is an opinion but you have to consider the mind set and times it was created . . . ' shock ' is relative . - dougie in austin
deepbluehue3 8 months ago
that it is irrelevant to draw similarities between the two. Whoever said the book of revelations was messed up just doesn't understand it. I think that if you are offended by this video or in that case any other thing that you yourself deem unacceptable then don't watch it, change the channel, flip the page, close the book but don't prevent others from experiencing the same delight and thought process that these enlightened individuals wish to convey.
razr9blade 10 months ago
so I'm writing an essy on censorship and its a synthesis essay so i had to look up different articles pertaining to the subject, in one of my searches i came across an article discussing the censorship of this individual and i blatantly disagreed because it is his freedom to express whatever he wants to. I saw this video and I still agree. Obviously this guy has been through alot being who he is and what he is. As for all of the discussions thats going on with the bible and stuff I think
razr9blade 10 months ago
@razr9blade
It's not restricting the artist to express whatever he wants to. For one thing, he's passed on. Art galleries are not public forums. If I walk into an art gallery and try to hang my painting without permission, I can't argue that my free speech rights were violated when it's taken down. Try to step behind the veil of ignorance for a second: would you be happy if the government taxed you to fund an institution that put up an art work where Martin Luther King Jr. is covered in ants?
joshthecartoonguy 10 months ago
@joshthecartoonguy
I would be ok with that. If it was in the name of art. this was meant to portay the reaction to AIDs. Art appreciation sadly only comes with education and/or openmindedness.
leeannrenae 9 months ago
@joshthecartoonguy You're equating Martin Luther King Jr. to Jesus Christ? I'm not saying I'm going to go around posting this video on my fb account because well, yes its slightly offensive. However, this was in a gallery his ghost didn't go and put the video up against the wishes of the gallery. Nevertheless, I see what you're saying and for the record I don't appreciate you calling me ignorant.
razr9blade 8 months ago
@razr9blade
I did not call you ignorant. I asked you to step behind the "veil of ignorance." The veil of ignorance is a concept in philosophy. The idea is that you take a hypothetical situation and pretend that you're ignorant of certain facts, like the color, religion, political party of the people involved. I was essentially asking you to look at it from another point of view. I was certainly not calling you ignorant, as that would be an ad hominem attack.
joshthecartoonguy 7 months ago
@joshthecartoonguy I think you're missing the point of the film. While I can certainly understand why you would be offended by the imagery, the context of the film is important. I interpret the film as a statement of frustration that some religious groups during the AIDS pandemic lacked compassion and understanding for AIDS sufferers. The artist had AIDS himself and passed away in 1992. Your comparison to MLK leads me to believe you aren't really taking into consideration the context of the work
Twtichy 5 months ago
@Twtichy
I was aware of the context of Wojnarowicz's piece. Context matters but so does content. The reason I pointed out MLK was to show a hypothetical to demonstrate why people would be offended by an artist putting ants on any respected figure, and that it's often not enough for an artist to explain away the controversial nature of their art by claiming they "didn't mean to offend any one." In what context is it okay to ridicule MLK by say suspending an image of him in a jar of urine?
joshthecartoonguy 5 months ago
@joshthecartoonguy
A lot of people don't know the context of Wojnarowicz's writings. He called Catholics cannibals and nazis because they were pro-life. He wrote that he fantasized about jabbing Catholic priests with syringes dipped in HIV-positive blood. When I take his own books into consideration, I doubt his inclusion of Jesus is accidental. If your message is "be more sympathetic of AIDs patients," juxtaposing images of Jesus with a penis to incite controversy doesn't help create sympathy.
joshthecartoonguy 5 months ago
@joshthecartoonguy I would say it's ok under some circumstances. One that comes to mind is the blatant hypocrisy that is within the black community when it comes to homophobia. MLK fought relentlessly for equal treatment of all people, yet when it comes to gays, they don't count? There are other contexts, I hope you don't need me to think THAT much for you. Regardless, I'm not so sure I would be keen on using MLK. Organized religion is far more dubious and shady than he is.
Twtichy 5 months ago
@joshthecartoonguy I re-read this and noticed a small flaw with the logic you use in your opening lines. Your comparison of wanting to hang your painting is irrelevant to the situation. The gallery CHOSE to use David's work. You said it yourself, the gallery is not a public area. The Smithsonian had the right to use what they saw fit. They don't have to say yes to every Joe Schmoe that comes in and wants to put up his work. It is their property. For politicians to come in and say you cannot use
Twtichy 5 months ago
@Twtichy
I would oppose the government coming in and banning a museum from displaying this piece. What actually happened is a couple politicians asked the question, in these tough economic times, should struggling taxpayers have to support an institution that exhibits work like this. It's a museum's right to display art, but there's no constitutional right to receive government funding.
joshthecartoonguy 5 months ago
@joshthecartoonguy Uh, did you even read Boehner's statements regarding the piece? I think it's interesting you bring up "these tough economic times." If Boehner truly gave a toss about the situation that America is facing, the Tea Party loons wouldn't be so adamantly against a tax increase for those who make over a million per year. Really, by mentioning him in that context, you're doing your argument no favors.
Twtichy 5 months ago
@Twtichy Ok, and now we're getting into a tea party rant. Look, doofus, Boehner threatened to cut their funding. Boo hoo. Frankly, if an institution wants government funding, then they shouldn't do anything tax payers wouldn't like, because blue collar workers may ask why they have to be taxed to fund this type of art. How would you feel if you were taxed to pay for a "Christianity is the Only True Religion" art gallery at the Smithsonian? Would you want them to continue receiving your taxes?
joshthecartoonguy 5 months ago
@joshthecartoonguy I wouldn't like it, but still, I value freedom over artistic expression over (unnecessary) censorship. I certainly wouldn't go out of my way to ask that the works be removed. I just probably wouldn't go see the exhibition. It's really as simple as that. As I stated earlier, it's difficult to please everyone. How do we gauge whether or not a work truly offends the public? Who is the one to decide what is offensive and what is non-offensive?
Twtichy 5 months ago
@Twtichy We actually may agree on a lot. I value artist expression. I'm an artist! I'd be furious if the government banned this. But that doesn't mean I think the government must fund this kind of art. You're right, it's hard to determine what's offensive and what isn't, and these days, it's getting hard to determine what counts as art and what doesn't. One reason I think art institutions like the Smithsonian shouldn't accept or receive public funding is so they don't become dependent on govt.
joshthecartoonguy 5 months ago
@joshthecartoonguy this is precisely a restriction of artistic freedom & expression. To answer your comparison to MLK, I would be OK with being taxed for that. I would probably like to know the context of the work, but I wouldnt be outraged like many were by this. I value freedom and am usually against censorship. I can think of extreme cases where it may be needed, but nothing we've discussed, IMO, is extreme. Honestly, is Fire In My Belly more offensive b/c of the imagery or its truthfulness?
Twtichy 5 months ago
@Twtichy
Second, my view on this work is very nuanced and not easy to fit into youtube comments. I think conservative guys like Bill Donahue are overly critical of art and ought to give artists a break. I think the liberal defenders of this piece are too quick to assume that anything conservatives hate must be great art. You accuse the black community of homophobia. I think it's more likely that a lot of them are Christians who believe in what the Bible says about ethical sexual behavior.
joshthecartoonguy 5 months ago
@Twtichy
My final point is that this piece is undeniably offensive in nature. Sometimes art does that. I don't believe people should be able to ban offensive art, but I don't believe they should have to subsidize it with taxes. Wojnarowicz's piece may or may not be great art. Controversy aside, this is a pretty random, disjointed video. I don't see how it's artistically superior to many videos you can find on youtube, which don't get displayed in publicly funded museums.
joshthecartoonguy 5 months ago
@joshthecartoonguy I agree, it is offensive in nature, though mainly to those of the Christian faith. As someone who is not Christian, I'm not particularly offended. While the imagery in general is uncomfortable, random, and I agree, disjointed to see, I feel the message is definitely important and does tie it together in a semi cohesive way. To answer your question, the artist lived and was a part of the AIDS crisis. I'd imagine that is why his work would take precedence over other youtube vids
Twtichy 5 months ago
il est vraiment bien
MFranckhe 10 months ago
fuck religion, its fucking over our world. this is art.
shgnarfish 10 months ago
@shgnarfish No, it is not, and no this is not.
aarondirebear 10 months ago
All of the people on here who are saying "Urgh, this isn't art" clearly don't understand the history behind the piece. Obviously it's not a pleasant video to watch, but that isn't the point. What's the point in art for art's sake?
91rosiero 10 months ago
@91rosiero It's pretentious. Ergo, not art.
aarondirebear 10 months ago
@aarondirebear why does being pretentious stop it from being art? and how is it pretentious? he was only creating work about his life and his experiences. He didn't even create this for a gallery, he'd died before the work was ever shown publically. I'm not saying you have to love the video or love his work, but it IS art, clearly it's just not to your taste
91rosiero 10 months ago
@aarondirebear You should keep your thoughts to the convent crowd that might find them interesting, let the rest of modern society enjoy the beautiful work of arts by amazing artists.
md991free 9 months ago
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kalliopeamorphous 10 months ago
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kalliopeamorphous 10 months ago
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diamanda-galas-cyberstalking.blogspot.com
kalliopeamorphous 10 months ago
and everyone who watches this video shall be UNCLEEEAN!!
and all who interacts with one who watches this video shall be UNCLEEEAN!
UNCLEEEEEEAAAAANNNN!!!!!111oneone
Freak813 11 months ago 20
@Freak813 ermmmmm arent you watching it too?
idunnokk 9 months ago
@Freak813 I agree! UNCLEEEAN! The crowd here smells of H E DOUBLE L!
TheAmazingamerica 7 months ago
How long after he made this movie did he kick the bucket? I bet he is in hell with ants crawling all over him. Think of it as art! I bet God even put him in a frame! LOL
TheAmazingamerica 7 months ago
@TheAmazingamerica You're "defending Jesus"? You're god is moulded plastic? How are you defending 'Jesus"? You are defending a cheap plastic cross made in China. If defending a plastic cross is more important to you than basic human rights, I would say you are the one who should be going to "hell". You're an idiot btw. . .just thought someone should inform you of that.
deecee10000 7 months ago
@Freak813 uh-oh! THIS IS THE LAW OF THE PLAGUEEEEEEEEEH
utubeleplague 4 months ago
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kalliopeamorphous 11 months ago
can everyone please read this? i personally know the people that represent his work. this video will make more sense after reading this article.
tbd.com/blogs/tbd-arts/2010/12/national-portrait-gallery-censorship-controversy-who-was-david-wojnarowicz--5383.html
HEAVYMETALKAREOKE 11 months ago
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HEAVYMETALKAREOKE 11 months ago
its just weird !!! gay or not !!! just freaking weird !!! you are not an artist if you consider this art !!!
yandre20005 11 months ago
@yandre20005 Hahah! If you believe THIS is "weird", you obviously haven't read the "bible". Now THAT is some fucked up shit. Read the "book of revelations" for starters and if you don't realize it was written by a really reeeeeally fucked-up individual then you are either brainwashed or messed-up yourself.
deecee10000 11 months ago 25
@deecee10000 The dude is masterbating on youtube, ur arguement is invalid. Its like chat-roulete snuck its way into a film inspired by a bad LSD trip.
Shintenzu 11 months ago
@Shintenzu wtf are you talking about? You're a fucking idiot who doesn't make any sense. Do you know what porn is? Have you actually read the Judeo-Christian bible cause you sound like you're just talking out of your ass.
deecee10000 11 months ago
@deecee10000 Erm my comment is about the obvious wanking in the video, dont make this a religious thing, Im just not in the mood for that kinda bitching.
Shintenzu 9 months ago
@deecee10000 The only fucked up individual here is you along with the rest of these fucks. The only reason all of you fuckers care so much about the Bible is because no matter how hard you try, no matter how hard you deny, no matter how many reductionist, materialistc, purely naturalistic tactics you use -you can't escape it. If you truly thought the Bible was some messed up book that was merely a fairy tale, you would have buried it a long time ago, but you can't fucking do it, so you bitch.
M3PanoS 7 months ago
Comment removed
M3PanoS 7 months ago
@M3PanoS Hahah. You're so hateful. Must be the mythical Jesus in you eh? The reason people bitch about religions is because religious fanatics are often seething with hatred for other human beings. Religions have throughout history continually bred hate, bigotry, wars and ignorance. You are a good example of what religion does to the human mind and heart. You come across as a human being full of hate.
deecee10000 7 months ago
@deecee10000 You know Jesus teaches to love one another, but as a human, there is only so much spitting in my face I can take before I bury people like you. Jesus willingly took ALL the ridicule and mocking -all the punishments and false accusations for lowly sinners such as ourselves. I'm not God, sometimes I don't have the strength to do it when the world around is increasingly becoming a hate-filled orgy with Christianity in its crosshairs. (continued)
M3PanoS 7 months ago
@deecee10000 You deliberately antagonize religious people and ridicule them because it's not in them to attack back, but if they do, you can then caricature them as evil, vile people as you did me. What am I supposed to do go to my grave being made fun of by someone as stupid as you? I could, and maybe I should, but on the other hand, then this ridicule will only continue on to others. That is why I completely hate you. All you do is play games to try and get others to fall to your level.
M3PanoS 7 months ago
@M3PanoS Okay, I'll play with you. You're religion started it first! Wha. You can dish it out hiding in the midst of your crowd of bigots but you can't take it when someone reminds you that you are in fact a bigot. You also can't stand it when someone truthfully reminds you that your religion has been the cause of much killing, torture and wars throughout its history in many cultures throughout the world.
deecee10000 7 months ago
@deecee10000 No it didn't. Don't believe it? Fine, stay away from it. You on the other hand take pleasure in ridiculing the religion and people involved in it. I can't imagine any reason why if you think that it is a mere scam...
And no Christianity has NOT been the cause of much killing, torture and wars. If you want to go there, I'll reply to you after you come up with the same old objections...
M3PanoS 7 months ago
@deecee10000 religion didn't cause any world wars, u r nuts and a liar.
TheAmazingamerica 7 months ago
@TheAmazingamerica Are you hoping your ignorance breeds more ignorance? Sorry you're outta luck with me. You have CHOSEN to be a bigot. You CHOOSE to follow a religion that teaches prejudice and bigotry are perfectly fine. Now you're crying like a baby because your hatred and prejudice are being called out. If a church or religion were to attack your family's basic human rights, based on their sex, skin color or nationality, would you support that church? I wouldn't. You probably would.
deecee10000 7 months ago
@deecee10000 I'm a bigot because I love Jesus? What does that make u? U r cheering at Jesus's murder and adding the ants to the story to fit ur fantasy rather than a resurrection. He really pizzed u off didn't He? LOL
TheAmazingamerica 7 months ago
@TheAmazingamerica So you actually believe that "Jesus pissed me off"? Wtf are you talking about? I don't even believe in your bible. Why would I be pissed off at something that doesn't exist? And what makes you think that your mythical "Jesus" would be a hateful bigot like you? I can't imagine a "heaven" full of bigots, can you? It sounds more like a hell where everybody hates each other because of their differences. You are on the WRONG path buddy.
deecee10000 7 months ago
@deecee10000 Fuck you and your ill-conceived atheism.
M3PanoS 7 months ago
@yandre20005 That's like saying 'You aren't an artist if you consider Klimt's paintings art!,' and so on.
Like the majority of art that has been made from the expressionist period on, this is an expressive piece, obviously. It requires the viewer to do a little more than sit on their ass in front of a screen.
cakalayjian 11 months ago
Fuck you tube!!!!
Lifscomplicated 11 months ago
The fact that I say that I can see his dick is probably enough to get my comment removed but the fact that he is the one pulling on his dick is perfectly fine.
Could anyone explaint the logic to me because I dont get it.
Lifscomplicated 11 months ago
What is wrong with all of you!!! The dude is jerking off!! ???!!
Am I the only one seeing this?
Art or not the fact still remains... The dude is still jerking off. Is he not?
He has been mastubating on youtube for over three years and all you can talk about is religious BS.
Lifscomplicated 11 months ago 4
@Lifscomplicated The focus of the film & it's recent controversy revolves around it's use of religious themes, rather than the few seconds of masterbation, which speaks volumes about American's priorities regarding censorship. Had the complaints leading to it's censoring been about the masterbation scenes, the convo would have centered around that. But the complaints that got the film censored were from Catholics who deemed the use of religious themes to be offensive towards thier religion.
smurfikinz 11 months ago
@Lifscomplicated
you're taking it in in the context of pornography, which it is certainly not. Lewd, yes. Outrageous, yes. However, that is the point.
victimedelamode1 11 months ago
@Lifscomplicated
you're taking it in in the context of pornography, which it is certainly not. Lewd, yes. Outrageous, yes. However, that is the point.
victimedelamode1 11 months ago
@Lifscomplicated What is wrong with you? Masturbation is a part of life. Is legal, is natural and is enjoyable.
Only people like Christine O'Donnell and some other religious crazies do not comprehend that.
md991free 11 months ago 5
@md991free shut the fuck up. conservatives are not against masturbation, you cunt.
aarondirebear 10 months ago
@aarondirebear I didn't say conservatives. Please re-read my comment you cretin.
md991free 10 months ago
@md991free People have no idea what this video is about, no point in trying to explain to these nuts!
AdmiralFerret 3 months ago
@AdmiralFerret Agree
md991free 3 months ago
@md991free lol, and I only say that because I did try to explain to someone what it meant. They're just mad because ants are on a carving. I find it interesting that they're mad about that, and yet it's their religious people that create these sculptures of him bloody and dead, nailed and exposed. I bet Those bloody morbid images they have of him in their kitchen get ants on them though. Hopefully one day, this excellent piece of social statement will be back where it belongs in the museum.
AdmiralFerret 3 months ago
@AdmiralFerret They are also mad because of the masturbation scene, and like I stated in my earlier statement, masturbation is natural and legal in America. No way in the bible does it state that it is a sinful act.
md991free 3 months ago
@md991free very true, an in all probability, they do it themselves.
AdmiralFerret 3 months ago
@Lifscomplicated
I'm gay and i don't find this in the slight bet erotic . . .
This is showing, in a dreamlike way uncensored / sexuality expressing rage of fundimentalist condemnation . . .
deepbluehue3 10 months ago
supposedly this is art?? ¬
torrejita13 11 months ago
This is the result of strong Christianity in Poland ?
MacCrackCan 11 months ago
If you mock Jesus in America you might be thrown out of a museum, but if you mock Muhammed in any muslim country you DIE. Stay away from Religions kids.
ohnoshedidntw8 11 months ago
@ohnoshedidntw8 Yeah you can choose to let the religious zealots kill each other off. They're always bombing and shooting each other in other countries as they have been for centuries now. Science is doing a descent job at educating the younger generations and evolution and knowledge will eventually kill the ignorance known as organized religion, but never quit fighting the TRUE good fight for your rights as a person. Let the gutless cower in a corner, but human rights are NEVER easily won.
deecee10000 11 months ago
@ohnoshedidntw8 Haha. Yeah, here in the US, this work of art being a prime example, if the Smithsonian decides to throw your art out, you will gain greater recognition and be seen by millions more people. For Wojnarowicz's piece, the resulting controversy of being thrown out of the Smithsonian has been what most contemporary artists only dream about.
deecee10000 11 months ago
@deecee10000 True, I´m here because of the controversy which Russia Today reported. It´s about time we force religion out of politics and schools and it´s time for them to pay taxes. This movie is appearently 2 decades old, but it had never been this popular just look at the video statistics, during this half years it has gained more views then during the past 3 years before
ohnoshedidntw8 11 months ago
The only thing I have a problem with is 2:08-2:14. Should this be allowed on Youtube? I thought that sort of thing was frowned upon(Pulled). Oh crap no pun intended
Lifscomplicated 11 months ago
THIS is art? Frankly I don't see what makes this art, and I can understand why anyone would be upset: the icon of Christianity is being treated irreverently. Not sure why crap like this even makes it into galleries - but then, 'artists' abound and there are plenty of fools with enough clout and money to patronise them. Disgusting, really.
rascalrabbyt 11 months ago
@rascalrabbyt What about bigotry and repression of minorities? Do you find THAT disgusting?
deecee10000 11 months ago
@rascalrabbyt Art is not something to be defined. What makes art art is that one cannot dictate what it is & isn't. It holds a different meaning to each witness, regardless of it's intended message (or lack thereof). Just because you don't like or understand something does not make it is any less art to another person. The icon of Christianity is not used irreveretly, it serves a very strong symbolic message regarding the artist's religious upbringing conflicting with his homosexuality.
smurfikinz 11 months ago
@smurfikinz He had every right to be pissed off at religious zealots at the time this video was made. In fact, gays and lesbians still have a right to be pissed off at religious zealots like the pope who preaches bigotry from the pulpit. If you choose to belong to a religion that teaches bigotry is somehow pleasing to your "god", you should not be scandalized when the enemies you have made treat you the same way you've treated them.
deecee10000 11 months ago
@deecee10000 I don't think it was specifically meant to offend so much as educate & provoke thought. In using Catholic imagery in such a gruesome way he re-instates the idea of Christ's own suffering & how it mirrors the suffering caused by his followers upon the homosexual community during the AIDS epidemic as well as throughout history. I've never understood people who condemn others ruthlessly yet get offended when the victim calls them out on thier own transgressions.
smurfikinz 11 months ago
@smurfikinz Yes smufikinz, I understand that. The point I was trying to make to religious people who don't like this imagery is that being a bigot comes with consequences. They should not be surprised at what their hatred yields, especially during a human rights movement. The gay rights movement is proceeding fast compared to other groups for a number of reasons. One of the reasons is that many gays and lesbians such as Wojnarowicz have not been afraid to express themselves..
deecee10000 11 months ago
@deecee10000 The worst part of all is the fact that the points they try to use as an excuse for thier bigotry are completely against it. Christ would be ashamed of everyone who uses his name to justify the very things he preached against. If anyone is degrading thier Savior, it is them.
smurfikinz 11 months ago
I'm an atheist, and this is just dumb. You don't put ants on a cross, burning jesus faces and church demolition in a video unless you want to offend christians specifically.
Regardless, this video is just plain dumb. Where do you even find music that bad?
pfullinwider 11 months ago
@pfullinwider Do you know any of the history behind the video? Are you a musician or artist? It appears that you are trying to critique something while having little or no knowledge of it.
deecee10000 11 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@pfullinwider Those who complain about this piece have no concept of how terribly mistreated and demonized gay people with AIDs were by the Christian church in the 80s. You're the dumb one.
HenhousetheRed 11 months ago
i'm a catholic....i have no problem with this vieo...in order to understand it one has to know the idea of god dying for our sins....i dont have a problem with gays....if they're happy doing whatever they do then let them......i am not god to judge anyone or tell someone whats wrong from right....live and let people live.
pimpetos 11 months ago 2
Remarkable and disturbing...but it's not hard to understand why it would freak out the "real 'mercuns". Great courage shown by those who chose this for the exhibition.
tomillo68 11 months ago
Remarkable and disturbing...but it's not hard to understand why it would freak out the "real 'mercuns". Great courage shown by those who chose this for the exhibition.
tomillo68 11 months ago
Esto no hay un dios que lo entienda.
jrep41 11 months ago
...a job developer and full of courage .. thanks David
cachetisandnegris 11 months ago
a job developer and full of courage .. thanks David
cachetisandnegris 11 months ago
Sorry misanthrope52607, I've been busy painting so I can't be here to remind you what a loser you are quite as often. I'm painting a big monster on canvas called "Evolution", biting the head off a 20th century plastic Jesus. A character in the background with the uncanny likeness of Glenn Beck is in the background looking like Munch's "The Scream"; the pope is standing next to him in similar expression. I'm hoping you like it since your opinion really matters to me. No. Really. It does.
deecee10000 1 year ago
@deecee10000 Painting?! If you paint as well as you think, I do hope some museum buys it. I would pay any amount of money to see your work and I'm not being sarcastic. I haven't laughed this hard in a long time. Look mommy? Lifting the ideas of others is my canvas and banal hatred is my medium! I'm not ordinary, Mommy!
misanthrope52607 11 months ago
@misanthrope52607 wow! You're STILL here. You're amazing. You get a cookie. UNfortunately, you REALLY shouldn't say too much about art, lest you make an even bigger fool of yourself. I'd like to offer you some (more) constructive criticism. You're coming across as someone who is arrogant to an extreme. You're narcissistic to an extreme, the likes of which I haven't come across very often. Get help. Seriously.
deecee10000 11 months ago
@deecee10000 Mommy, I real artist! Only I knowledagble enough to remark on artwork, not bad man! I paint monsters! Big monster "Evolution" canvas! Plastic Jesus gets head bitten and Glenn Beck Jesus screams like...Scream! Pope screams, too! We all scream because I create scary, Bitey Monsters!
But I share my cookies with bad man. One cookie. Rest are for me, Mommy. I am good boy.
misanthrope52607 11 months ago
@misanthrope52607 Your mind is too closed. You've labeled the concept for my painting as "hateful", I see it as honest and truthful. Are you being hateful by eating another animal's flesh? Is the thought of evolution and "Evolution" eating "Jesus" too honest for you? Is reality, the real "creation" your "Creator" "created", too ugly for you? You're scandalized by truth & honesty and put YOUR "hateful" labels on them. Your hatred is misdirected when you hate the messenger.
deecee10000 11 months ago
@deecee10000 Mommy, it is OK for me to make assumptions about people I don't know, but I can't tolerate it when others do the same to me! No fair, mommy! I know bad man is omnivorous! I know bad man is Christian! I know bad man loves pope! I know bad man is right-wing! I know bad man is straight! I know bad man is anti-human rights and I know most of all that the bad man hates me! I have to go now mommy. I have more monsters to paint. Roar! Grrrr!
misanthrope52607 11 months ago