Is there a second chance for salvation after death? Of course not. There's no first chance to be saved. We're not saved by chance. We're saved by Grace through the faithfulness of Jesus Christ work on the cross(The Atonement). If salvation were by chance,then none of us could be saved. Those of Arminian and especially Reformed Theology should know better than to make such a statement. By saying salvation by chance,the Calvinist and Arminians are not being true to their own theology
Greg, have you played your words back to yourself? So every human who ever lived "knew about the father"? Even if you're only referring to post-Jesus humans you still have all your work ahead of you to make any sense on this subject.
@linuxisbetter0 If there was a second chance after death then Jesus dieing on the cross would have been for nothing. Also it would be unfair for those that abstained from sin and lived a rightious life whilst on earth. think about it.
The oldest civilizations on earth are a testament to how varied the "World" can infer different types of gods. One for the sun, one for the Moon, one for the rain, one for the life one for death. The ancient civilizations who lived in an era when nature and its force were all they knew, adopted multi god universes because the laws of nature are in constant conflict and believed their god to be in constant conflict with one another. The ONE GOD one creator was a man made concept.
well, one explanation is that God puts souls who He knows won't repent where they can never be exposed to the gospel.. when all the newborn Hebrew children were ordered by pharaoh to be killed, Moses was spared.. when Herod ordered the Bethlehem children two years old and under to be killed, Jesus was spared.. God placed those souls of those doomed children in a time and place where death was inevitable because He knew there was never any ultimate salvation possible for them in the first place..
@muzalot any biblical examples to back this up or are you making things up? God placing already doomed souls in bodies because they would have already sinned does not explain why he places good souls that are then tortured or raped. If he punishes people ahead of time, then are you saying people that are tortured or raped was because god planned it that way?
You will say to me then, “Why does he still find fault? For who can resist his will?” But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, “Why have you made me like this?” Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use?
and even if God had put so called "doomed souls" in hopeless situations does that mean he must put good souls in nice safe places? certainly not, for establishing the heavenly kingdom on earth is compared unto the travails of childbirth as a painful ordeal.. the end result is not pain for pains sake, as the former suffering is forgotten, being replaced with joy..
consider also that the notion of the good soul isn't based in our inherent goodness for there is no one good but God.. in truth the human heart is desperately wicked and deceitful above all things, Jesus knew the heart of man and didn't intrust himself to it..
Thank you Greg Koukl. What you explain makes total sense. In any countries law a person will be guilty of most crime no matter whether they knew about it or not. I don't even know why troll posters below. People fail to recognize that God to be fair requires justice on the guilty to be fair.
What about "No one comes to the father but through me," John 14:16 words in red that pretty explicitly condemn to eternal torture anyone who doesn't worship Jesus. You don't want to face the fact that your brutal and capricious 'God of mercy' condemns the vast majority of humanity to eternal torture. Have the courage of your convictions and consign the heathens to eons of pain for the accident of being born in the wrong place or time. Apologetics is a pathetic pastime.
The sunlight that makes the living tree grow is the same energy that causes the dead wood to catch fire.. the only conceivable "eternal torture" would simply be incompatibility with the eternal God.
What if they accept the Father, despite not hearing the Christian story? (Paul's "without excuse" comment doesn't apply in this situation, since that was about rejecting the Father.) Will they then be offered the Jesus pardon option after death?
If not, then since God made us, and we're born guaranteed to fail at his laws (many won't even explicitly know them), the lack of salvation doesn't come from rejecting Jesus or the Father, but rather life circumstances beyond the individual's control.
According to Jesus (Luke 10:25-28), it suffices to be saved (to "live") that one love God with all one's ability, and love his neighbor as himself.
Jesus said nothing there about belief/acceptance in him being the only salvation means possible.
Was Jesus privately thinking "Heh, sure, that's technically true, but it's also impossible for anyone to achieve, hence they'll need ME. But I'm going to leave that little detail out, and these suckers listening will all end up damned. LOL."
The more direct problem, though, is that this shows the absurdity of the Christian salvation plan. Imagne if our legal system functioned the way the Christian God's does. You pass laws that are imossible to keep ("No breathing"), then our "justice system" declares everyone guilty (penalty = death), UNLESS they accept the pardon plan, which some of them have never even heard about.
That has nothing to do with "justice". It's the threat "accept this (Christianity), or die" - nothing more.
So do all primitive tribes on the planet believe in Yahweh and/or support Biblical customs/morality while missing the connection, or am I missing something here?
You got it! Satan has sold a large portion of Churchianity on the lie that what a person must DO to obtain eternal life is "HEAR the story of Jesus" and then "make a MENTAL ACKNOWLEDGMENT that story is true" and that is what constitutes the person "believes in Jesus". How pathetic!
The TRUTH is "believing in Him" really means a person must "believe in Christ's message of love (the 10 Love Commandments) by DOING them!----which ALL people KNOW in their heart. (Read Romans chapter 2)
@GabrielAnsley Well, if you truly believe what jesus says and love Him then you are compelled by that love to do what Jesus says to to physically, not just mentally. or True love leads to the actions. Isn't that what your point is?
@Naebofcso Yes, "true love leads to actions" is exactly right, and those actions are quantified by "obeying the 10 Love Commandments". Paul said it like this: "Faith which worketh by love" (Galatians 5:6). "worketh" means "produce". See, God is love, so "faith (or belief) in God (love) is only proved by someone who willfully does the deeds of love, like not stealing by giving, not murdering (hating) but forgiving, etc. etc. with each of the 10 Love Commmandments.
Comment removed
JoeTownley 3 weeks ago
Is there a second chance for salvation after death? Of course not. There's no first chance to be saved. We're not saved by chance. We're saved by Grace through the faithfulness of Jesus Christ work on the cross(The Atonement). If salvation were by chance,then none of us could be saved. Those of Arminian and especially Reformed Theology should know better than to make such a statement. By saying salvation by chance,the Calvinist and Arminians are not being true to their own theology
741rjohnson 4 weeks ago
Show me the scriptures that say there is no chance of repentance after death?
741rjohnson 4 weeks ago
@jbass02 creation is evidence for the father, creation is the general revelation I think Greg is referencing too here.
k12rising 2 months ago
"Everyone knew about the father".
Greg, have you played your words back to yourself? So every human who ever lived "knew about the father"? Even if you're only referring to post-Jesus humans you still have all your work ahead of you to make any sense on this subject.
jbass02 5 months ago
Having a second chance after death I think is necessary for the thought of hell being infinite.
If there is no second chance I think eternal hell is unjust for finite sin.
linuxisbetter0 5 months ago
@linuxisbetter0 If there was a second chance after death then Jesus dieing on the cross would have been for nothing. Also it would be unfair for those that abstained from sin and lived a rightious life whilst on earth. think about it.
k12rising 2 months ago
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SShanez 6 months ago
The oldest civilizations on earth are a testament to how varied the "World" can infer different types of gods. One for the sun, one for the Moon, one for the rain, one for the life one for death. The ancient civilizations who lived in an era when nature and its force were all they knew, adopted multi god universes because the laws of nature are in constant conflict and believed their god to be in constant conflict with one another. The ONE GOD one creator was a man made concept.
deslava27 1 year ago
well, one explanation is that God puts souls who He knows won't repent where they can never be exposed to the gospel.. when all the newborn Hebrew children were ordered by pharaoh to be killed, Moses was spared.. when Herod ordered the Bethlehem children two years old and under to be killed, Jesus was spared.. God placed those souls of those doomed children in a time and place where death was inevitable because He knew there was never any ultimate salvation possible for them in the first place..
muzalot 1 year ago
@muzalot any biblical examples to back this up or are you making things up? God placing already doomed souls in bodies because they would have already sinned does not explain why he places good souls that are then tortured or raped. If he punishes people ahead of time, then are you saying people that are tortured or raped was because god planned it that way?
deslava27 1 year ago
@deslava27
You will say to me then, “Why does he still find fault? For who can resist his will?” But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, “Why have you made me like this?” Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use?
muzalot 1 year ago
@deslava27
and even if God had put so called "doomed souls" in hopeless situations does that mean he must put good souls in nice safe places? certainly not, for establishing the heavenly kingdom on earth is compared unto the travails of childbirth as a painful ordeal.. the end result is not pain for pains sake, as the former suffering is forgotten, being replaced with joy..
muzalot 1 year ago
@deslava27
consider also that the notion of the good soul isn't based in our inherent goodness for there is no one good but God.. in truth the human heart is desperately wicked and deceitful above all things, Jesus knew the heart of man and didn't intrust himself to it..
muzalot 1 year ago
@deslava27 Romans chapter 9.
SeraphsWitness 1 year ago
@SeraphsWitness thank you for the text I haven't had a chance to look it up I will and respond soon.
deslava27 1 year ago
@SeraphsWitness
just dont be hyper with it
nofearinlove418 1 year ago
Thank you Greg Koukl. What you explain makes total sense. In any countries law a person will be guilty of most crime no matter whether they knew about it or not. I don't even know why troll posters below. People fail to recognize that God to be fair requires justice on the guilty to be fair.
StopFear 1 year ago
What about "No one comes to the father but through me," John 14:16 words in red that pretty explicitly condemn to eternal torture anyone who doesn't worship Jesus. You don't want to face the fact that your brutal and capricious 'God of mercy' condemns the vast majority of humanity to eternal torture. Have the courage of your convictions and consign the heathens to eons of pain for the accident of being born in the wrong place or time. Apologetics is a pathetic pastime.
disrxt 1 year ago
@disrxt
The sunlight that makes the living tree grow is the same energy that causes the dead wood to catch fire.. the only conceivable "eternal torture" would simply be incompatibility with the eternal God.
muzalot 1 year ago
What if they accept the Father, despite not hearing the Christian story? (Paul's "without excuse" comment doesn't apply in this situation, since that was about rejecting the Father.) Will they then be offered the Jesus pardon option after death?
If not, then since God made us, and we're born guaranteed to fail at his laws (many won't even explicitly know them), the lack of salvation doesn't come from rejecting Jesus or the Father, but rather life circumstances beyond the individual's control.
VeryEvilPettingZoo 1 year ago
(cont)
According to Jesus (Luke 10:25-28), it suffices to be saved (to "live") that one love God with all one's ability, and love his neighbor as himself.
Jesus said nothing there about belief/acceptance in him being the only salvation means possible.
Was Jesus privately thinking "Heh, sure, that's technically true, but it's also impossible for anyone to achieve, hence they'll need ME. But I'm going to leave that little detail out, and these suckers listening will all end up damned. LOL."
VeryEvilPettingZoo 1 year ago
(cont)
The more direct problem, though, is that this shows the absurdity of the Christian salvation plan. Imagne if our legal system functioned the way the Christian God's does. You pass laws that are imossible to keep ("No breathing"), then our "justice system" declares everyone guilty (penalty = death), UNLESS they accept the pardon plan, which some of them have never even heard about.
That has nothing to do with "justice". It's the threat "accept this (Christianity), or die" - nothing more.
VeryEvilPettingZoo 1 year ago
So do all primitive tribes on the planet believe in Yahweh and/or support Biblical customs/morality while missing the connection, or am I missing something here?
AtheistAltar 1 year ago
You got it! Satan has sold a large portion of Churchianity on the lie that what a person must DO to obtain eternal life is "HEAR the story of Jesus" and then "make a MENTAL ACKNOWLEDGMENT that story is true" and that is what constitutes the person "believes in Jesus". How pathetic!
The TRUTH is "believing in Him" really means a person must "believe in Christ's message of love (the 10 Love Commandments) by DOING them!----which ALL people KNOW in their heart. (Read Romans chapter 2)
GabrielAnsley 1 year ago
@GabrielAnsley Um, you are a little confused. That would be works for salvation, which Romans is adamantly against.
2ceBorn 1 year ago
@GabrielAnsley Well, if you truly believe what jesus says and love Him then you are compelled by that love to do what Jesus says to to physically, not just mentally. or True love leads to the actions. Isn't that what your point is?
Naebofcso 1 year ago
@Naebofcso Yes, "true love leads to actions" is exactly right, and those actions are quantified by "obeying the 10 Love Commandments". Paul said it like this: "Faith which worketh by love" (Galatians 5:6). "worketh" means "produce". See, God is love, so "faith (or belief) in God (love) is only proved by someone who willfully does the deeds of love, like not stealing by giving, not murdering (hating) but forgiving, etc. etc. with each of the 10 Love Commmandments.
GabrielAnsley 1 year ago