Women in Ministry Silenced or Set Free? introduction

[LadyNemesis2007]

I dont want to teach no man anyway.

[SuperGolfing1]

But the woman in Tim means WOMAN not human your twisting scripture. I have no problem with a woman to teach, outside the church, not a bishop, pastor etc.. its not right as far as the bible goes.

[inhistime2007]

@SuperGolfing1 The Scripture quoted was 2 Timothy 3:16. The word here translated as "man" means person. The quote is not about 1 Timothy 2:11, 12 which does have the word for woman. Perhaps you might want to listen to the material again to be get the proper reference.

[SuperGolfing1]

@inhistime2007 Exactly, but like you said in 1 Tim 2:11 means woman like you said. Im not sure what your asking or point could you clarify.

Thanks

[inhistime2007]

@SuperGolfing1 You said I was twisting scripture, so you are the one who needs to clarify. I have explained that when I quoted the Scripture that means person, it is 2 Timothy 3:16. That was my point in the clip and if you were confused by that, it would be better to recheck what was said rather than judge a person as twisting Scripture.

[bjubk]

I agree with the Word of God as Cheryl has explained.

[tastiergerm]

At 0:55 the reason she can't find the rules for women in the Bible is because she hasn't READ it!

[CRoadwarrior]

Nice video. I just started a series on the topic of women in ministry, showing how people have misread 1 Cor. 14:34,35 and 1 Tim. 2:11,12.

[inhistime2007]

@CRoadwarrior Thanks for supporting God's female "sons"!

[CRoadwarrior]

You're welcome. After doing my research, it was clear to me that God did not truly forbid women from preaching His word. But some people have been so indoctrinated in the Southern Baptist mentality that no facts seem to change their minds. But those who care more about what God really had to say rather than human mistranslations and misreadings will have to change their views.

[inhistime2007]

Denise, do you say "hello" to someone in church? Do you sing? Or do you keep complete silence in church?

[DeniseLoveYAH]

inhis, Nice try STAY FOCUS on my last comment & can u answer this, where did the name jesus come from & where is it written ELOHIM (MIGHTY ONE) gave man the right to change the FATHER & SON name to "lord & jesus"

awaiting your answers with scrips, TY

[inhistime2007]

@DeniseLoveYAH , this is a video about women in ministry. This is the issue that you must address. Denise, do you say "hello" to someone in church? Do you sing? Or do you keep complete silence in church?

[DeniseLoveYAH]

WHERE IS IT WRITTEN FOR YOU TO PROVE TO YOUR VIEWERS YAHUWAH ORDAIN WOMEN TO PREACH

Every scrip I READ say MAN regarding this matter "WHAT BIBLE ARE YOU READING FROM THAT SAY WOMAN"

If YAHUWAH wanted women to preach there would of been at least 1 FEMALE

APOSTLE

1 Cor 11:3 But I WOULD HAVE YOU KNOW that the HEAD OF EVERY MAN IS THE MESSIAH and the HEAD OF WOMAN IS THE MAN and the HEAD OF THE MESSIAH is YHWH

YOU NEED TO STOP LIEING & REPENT SHALOM

[SuperGolfing1]

@DeniseLoveYAH I just wanted to give you a big AAAMMMMMEEEEEN!

[Allshallbeadded2u]

Can someone show me just once in the bible where a women preached the gospel to a multitude. If so can you also add the scripture so I know it is the word of God and not what man has said. Thanks

[inhistime2007]

There is a lot of stuff never shown in the Scripture, yet this is not showing a prohibition. There is no place in the bible where a slave preached the gospel to a multitude either. The original question just shows a prejudice towards women.

[hebrewjisrael]

This is garbage!!!! Nonsense!

[inhistime2007]

This sounds good however the problem is that a "law" is referenced to that silences women. Where is this "law"? The only law in effect at that time was the Jewish oral law that said a woman was not allowed to speak in the assembly because her voice was considered filthy. Paul never appealed to man's law for Christian rules so verses 1 Cor. 14: 34, 35 are a quote from the Corinthian letter (1 Cor. 7:1) which Paul promptly refutes in verse 36.

[ThornUvDaath777]

Her voice is not considered filthy, but what her voice could possibly inspire within the male adherents. Men are the weaker gender in spiritual matters and many physical ones as well, therfore, women are to help men in whatever way they can, a sort of concessional deference to men so that they will be elevated.

[Hopefl1]

Can you explain that men are the weaker gender? I may agree or disagree after thinking about it. Just want a little insight from you.

[Hopefl1]

One more thing. Men are supposed to be the strong ones.

[ThornUvDaath777]

I don't think I got the last comment.

The comment I left asserts that men are weaker "spiritually", though you could possibly argue that women are stronger physically since they have a higher pain threshold, and the pain it takes to birth a child would kill a man. Have you ever heard someone say: "My wife has the religion for the family" or something to that effect? Thats a small example among many.

Ultimately, no gender is "weak" in the eyes of the Creator, both are needed to sustain creation

[Hopefl1]

Yes but who was deceived first in the garden?

[Hopefl1]

But then the man gave into the woman. Hum?

[dawnzlight]

I actually have read that in the days of Jesus' teaching the women sat away in a group,further from the main group of men, and they would often get so excited trying to HEAR what was being said and discuss it ..that that is one of the reasons why the women were told to be quiet...which makes sense at that time of the writing. Its not like Jesus used a megaphone :)

[clarinetlaj]

This is a very sad display of the feministic theology that is tearing at the fabric of our churches and homes!

[syphkqube]

no women preachers

[inhistime2007]

God has given men and women together to complement each other in the work of the gospel. Anyone can present the gospel of Jesus. Each one of us working together will get the work done.

[Raguel22]

36Did the word of God originate with you? Or are you the only people it has reached? 37If anybody thinks he is a prophet or spiritually gifted, let him acknowledge that what I am writing to you is the Lord's command. 38If he ignores this, he himself will be ignored. 39Therefore, my brothers, be eager to prophesy, and do not forbid speaking in tongues. (I am not seeing how that is countering what was said in verses 34-35... please explain!)

[inhistime2007]

Go to scripture4all(dot)org - replace the (dot with . Pick the NT Greek and then pick 1 Cor. 14. You can see the literal Greek here that doesn't show up in many English versions. It has a Greek word at the beginning that is translated in the right hand column as "What". This is a contradiction in the Greek of the verses immediately before verse 36.

[Raguel22]

Thank you very much! I will add that to my research bookmarks...

I am currently debating becoming a Padre... but since I am female that would be "Madre" and I have been personally struggling with this topic alot as of late.

Thank you for posting your videos, its always refreshing to have a Christian Appolgitics to talk to. :)

[Raguel22]

1 Corinthians 14:34women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says. 35If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church.

How do you deal with that? Women are to be quiet in chruch? What about females called to be pastors?

[inhistime2007]

The documentation is in the video. Verse 36 contradicts verses 34 & 35 and the "law" that is quoted is not in the OT. It is in the oral law of the Jews, a law that is rejected by both Jesus and Paul. Paul is contradicting a part of the letter written to him by the Corinthians.

[kimkaze]

I would also like to remind those here that God is SPIRIT and without gender. He is not a man that He should lie nor a son of man that He should change His mind (Numbers). Guys, get over yourselves a little, here ;) Seriously. When we get to heaven, we won't be male or female. You will have to listen to me then, and I'll be welcoming YOU in love. Distain due to gender has no place in the body of Christ - God didn't create women as lesser beings. We are all made in His image, male and female.

[kimkaze]

Once you try to get under law as well, the whole thing falls apart. Arguments start up that are cleartly religious in their nature and much like the Pharasees - for example, when should a woman stop teaching her son(s)? The more you mull it over the more insane it becomes. Also, women did prophecy in these books and they were upheld by Paul, never admonished. If Paul had heard from The LORD that no woman was ever to teach, preach or to have authority over men, this would not have happened.

[kimkaze]

Nephilim, you are not speaking at all in love. In fact, you're barking and reminding me of a guy I met in my younger days who ran this water into wine philosophy of thinking that believed unless you read the KJB, you're probably not even saved for real.

By their fruits, you shall know them. You are elephant hurling without love. If you lack love, you are but a sounding gong. Sorry about that.

[NephilimFree]

And just let me guess; you read the NIV don't you? You abandon the most accurate English interpretation of the Word and adopt one which leaves out words and entire passages, and replaces them with humanism. Don't you. Yes, I just bet you do. You are presenting an abomination of God's word to the world, and this is an serious sin. A very serious sin indeed, which is I might point out, addressed in the Bible itself.

[inhistime2007]

No, I reference from the original manuscripts. I don't particularly care for the NIV. Again, God's word is true. It is completely inspired and we must not ignore any of it.

[NephilimFree]

What you speak is humanist philosophy. Here's a perfect reason why. If you interpret the Bible's meaning by culture, you err because it exists for all cultures. Christ came for all people in all cultures. You need multiple Chrsits to support your philosophy. Jesus Christ himself stated that the scripture was not for personal interpretation! Did he not? End of story.

[inhistime2007]

Perhaps you should watch the segment on 1 Cor. 11 and see if the interpretation using the cultural reason for the head covering fits the prohibition that Paul gives in 1 Cor. 11. God's word is true and it will stand the test of time. The culture of the time only proves God's word is true and there is no contradiction in God's word.

[NephilimFree]

"Apparently you have not watched the entire series."

I watched enough, and saw that it is infected with humanism.

"you will see that there is no humanist philosophy present."

You either do not understand that what you say is humanist philisophy, or you are lying.

"The word of God is what is appealed to, not a philosophical system of thought."

It is inerrant and inspired from end to end. Every word of the Bible is inspired. I can prove this is you need me to.

[inhistime2007]

Every word of scripture is inspired and every piece of grammar is inspired. When our interpretation causes a conflict between scriptures then we need to rethink. Our interpretation must consider that God's word will not contradict itself because it is God breathed.

[NephilimFree]

"We cannot ignore the cultural context"

We MUST ignore all context. By your thinking, the Bible applies one way to one culture but not the same for another. Would you also say that Jesus Christ's very words apply differently to different cultures?

"we need to know why the head covering was worn and why it shamed Christ"

Then knowing why is was forbade that women minister will change whether or not women should or should not minister in other cultures? No. Your philisophy is humanist.

[inhistime2007]

You are giving feedback without knowledge. The 1 Timothy 2 passage is within the context of 1 Timothy 1 & 2 and we cannot ignore the context. Also 1 Timothy 2:15 is the conclusion of the prohibition. It will not make sense unless we have a proper interpretation. Perhaps you should watch the series and then make your comments so you are commenting from knowledge. There is no fear in knowledge. God's word is true and it will stand in context.

[NephilimFree]

I have watched the series. It leaves the viewer with the intended impression that the bible does not prohibit women from being ministers of the Word, but it clearly does. This is the infection of Christianity with humanist philosophy, and is a corruption of the Word.

[inhistime2007]

Apparently you have not watched the entire series. The series is 3.5 hours long and once you have watched it you will see that there is no humanist philosophy present. The word of God is what is appealed to, not a philosophical system of thought.

[NephilimFree]

The video states that we need tools to help us understand the historical context. This is false. The bible does not need outside references for validation or interpretation with the possible exception of prophecy because it relates to events to come or which have passed.

[inhistime2007]

We cannot ignore the cultural context. For example in 1 Cor. 11 we need to know why the head covering was worn and why it shamed Christ. The cultural understanding helps us to understand that shame.

[NephilimFree]

The Bible is clear on the matter. Denial of the scripture is simply denial. You cannot pick and chose what to believe in the Bible. It is shameful to deny one part of scripture because you don't like it then turn around and praise another scripture because you do. You believe the Bible is or is not inspired by God. Interpretination for personal will is humanist philosophy, which the Bible specifically condemns.

Is Jesus the son of God or not? If he is, is scripture inspired or not? Hypocracy.

[inhistime2007]

Apparently you didn't watch the introduction very carefully or you would not have posted this comment.

[kimkaze]

Brilliant exegesis and therefore beautiful hermenutics ;)

[inhistime2007]

Thank you!

[gailowens]

God bless you sister, for this wonderful video and the hard work; the Church needs to finally wake up.

[gailowens]

This video keeps stopping and starting!

[JaqHammer2285]

Cheryl, this is Jason Oliver. This is amazing! I want to purchase this and keep in my library. Great Job!!

[inhistime2007]

Hey Jason,

Thank you! I am sure you will enjoy the DVD set. Make sure you let me know what you think once you have watched the DVDs.

[gailowens]

o to google video type in "under authority like Christ" by Mark Driscoll. It explains the issue fully. Man is a God of order. God uses woen too but not in the pulpit teaching men, we can teach women and children.

[inhistime2007]

You said that "Man is a God of order". Man may think that he has the authority to stop women from using their God-given gifts for the body of Christ, but it is God himself who gives the gifts and nowhere does God ever forbid a godly Christian woman from teaching correct biblical doctrine to men. Deception is forbidden but godly teaching is never forbidden for anyone.

[dazzarai]

NO where in scripture? Hmmm, shocking.

[inhistime2007]

Yes, that is right. It is shocking that a passage forbidding false teaching and false teachers has been used to stop the teaching of correct biblical doctrine. Context is so important and when people take verses out of context they end up distorting scripture.

[dazzarai]

Im assuming (correct me if im wrong) that you are refering to 1 tim 3? What is your strong point on concluding that the scriptures are only dealing with false teahers?

[inhistime2007]

No, I am not referring to chapter 3 but 1 Timothy 2:12. If you read the passage starting with chapter one you will see the references to false doctrine, the stopping of false teachers and Paul saying that he received mercy because he too had been deceived. There is no scripture at all saying that Timothy was to stop true bible teaching, only the false teachers and false teaching.

[dazzarai]

Apologies, i meant chapter 2. If what you say is correct then should be doing the same thing now? If it was only an issue in corinth, and if the issue was women teaching false doctrines. Then why did he not forbid men to teach, because men taught false doctrines also. Then no one would be teaching. Also what about asurping authority? That is also an issue here? A teach is in a place of authority over the student.

[inhistime2007]

A teacher is not the authority - the Bible is. Scripture teaches us to test all things. If the teacher was the authority then we couldn't question him/her. Fact is we can and we should. The Bible which is God's word is the authority and those who teach error have no authority over us even if they use the bible.

[dazzarai]

im sure you understood what i ment. We are not questioning the autority of scripture, but the authority that goes with being a teacher. Your teacher in school had authority over you, because they taught , you learnt.

[inhistime2007]

First of all we are not talking about a teaching in a school. A bible teacher in a church setting does not fail their student. The student must submit to the teacher in order to learn. If they don't submit to learn the bible teacher has no authority over them. The bible is the authority. As far as school - women teach men in school and they have authority to fail the men who don't learn. There is no equivalent authority in the church as a teacher for a man or a woman.

[dazzarai]

im disapointed you have not attempted to answer my questions.

[inhistime2007]

I very clearly answered your last comment as requested. If you want to know the entire content of 1 Timothy 1 & 2 you will need to get the DVD set as this format (youtube only allows short comments and this is insufficient for what took me an hour to teach in the series). If you can refute that material, then go ahead and try. I would look forward to hearing from you once you have seen the complete argument.

[dazzarai]

My question was not answered. I think you got confused with which question. You said Paul silenced the women because they where teaching false doctrines. My question is why did he not silence the men in corinth also? Why say you permit women ONLY not to teach?

[inhistime2007]

In chapter 1 Paul silenced false teachers both men and women. In chapter 2 Paul says a woman and a man. The context is a deceived person influencing one who has not been deceived as Paul gives the example of the deceived Eve and the not deceived Adam. Paul never stopped godly Christian teaching in any church and the problem was not mentioned again by Paul. The verse is sandwiched between chapter 1 with false teachers and the deception of Eve.

[dazzarai]

opps i pressed spam in stead of reply. hope i aint messed something up. Sorry.

My question is why does he make such a point of the women teaching. Also it still does not deal with the issue of authority.

[inhistime2007]

He doesn't. He says "a woman" not "women". The word translated in some bibles as "authority" is not a very unusual word only used once in scripture. Look it up in the WordStudy Dictionary and you will get a good flavor of what it really means. If you watch the DVD you will get the entire teaching - about an hours worth that will help you.

[dazzarai]

1cor 11 1Follow my example, as I follow the example of Christ. 2I praise you for remembering me in everything and for holding to the teachings,[a] just as I passed them on to you. 3Now I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.

[inhistime2007]

Watch the DVD on 1 Cor 11. The DVD on this section is also about 45 minutes long on this passage and will help you to understand in context what Paul is getting at.

[inhistime2007]

The word used is authenteo and this is never given for men to use either. Context is what is key. If you are quite interested in the topic, I recommend you get a copy of the DVD set and then you will have all the information to try to refute if you can. So far no one has been able to do that although I have been in dialog with many Pastors and apologists. You are welcome to teach me if you find error in my DVDs.

[dazzarai]

thats cool, but can you answer the questions in my last comment?

[NarutoRV]

I Tim 3:2 and Tit 1:5, says the same thing, a preacher has to be the Husband of one wife, now how can a woman be the husband of one wife unless she's homosexual, and if she is , she is still condemned. Rev 22:18,19 says don't add or take anything away from the bible, so it's a sin to add a scripture saying of I Tim 3:2 and Tit 1:5 to mean a women can be the wife of one husband, thats adding to the bible. A woman was never ordained to preach God's word.

[inhistime2007]

You are posting these comments on the videos without even watching the material. If we take your interpretation, then a Pastor must be married and have children. If we don't make a Pastor be married or to have children, then we must be be consistent in our interpretation. The same thing "husband of one wife" is said about Deacons yet a woman Deacon is named in scripture.

[NarutoRV]

I did watch the material, and I posted the comments on every video because I wanted everyone to know what the bible says, bot my interptertaion. Quote the scripture where a women was ordained a deacon.

[inhistime2007]

Phoebe is called a Deacon in Romans 16:1. The Greek word is G1249 diakonos which means "a deacon, one who, by virtue of the office assigned to him by the church". It is the same word used of the male Deacons and the WordStudy Dictionary says it is "a technical term side by side with episkopos (G1985), bishop or overseer.

[gailowens]

I watched all of this, to be honest I changed my position from being against to being favour of women preachers. A biblical languages/theology expert went through this with me. Women are loved by God and can be used but God has order for the Church and the home, God, Christ, Women, Men Children. This is not inferority it is only rank, order of submission.

[inhistime2007]

Paul did not say "I permit no women to teach" He said "a woman" and then he referenced her to the first deceived person which is Eve. If Paul was telling Timothy only to do what was right, he wouldn't have stopped godly Christian women from teaching correct biblical doctrine to men. There was no such law in the Old Testament that forbid women from teaching men.

[formeyousee]

Amazing, I was approached about this very subject after church last week. I'm a male leader in our church and someone asked me about this. I'd be interested to know your overall view on this.

[formeyousee]

Are women permitted in scripture to: 1. Serve as elders 2. Preach to men 3. Pastor churches

[inhistime2007]

Although scripture says nothing forbidding women from preaching (women were the first to preach of the resurrection) or from being pastors (in the same way that single men are not forbidden from being pastors or married men who are childless) the difficult passages must be understood in context. I recommend you get a copy of the DVD to help you deal with the difficult passages. It is 3.5 hrs and compares both positions to scripture.

[formeyousee]

In my dialog I explained what I see in scripture in that: (1)Women are not permitted to serve as elders/pastors ( or single men) ; (2) but that they are permitted to preach & not only preaching to small children and women but to men also. So, on one account I do agree with you there.

[inhistime2007]

Seems to me you are going to have a problem then if a Pastor's wife dies. If you make it mandatory to have a Pastor who is married, then if his wife dies, he must step down until he remarries. If you get the DVD you will see how "husband of one wife" was understood to the Jews of Jesus' day because the Jews had the same rule for their High Priest. Blessings!

[formeyousee]

There's no problem. I agree there's nothing magical about a pastor needing to be married to pastor. My comments are within the context of what that portion of sripture is saying. If a man cannot manage his family, how can he manage the local church family? The emphasis of the text is that the local church group has observed this man's family leadership up close & personal to substantiate his qualifications as their head elder.

[inhistime2007]

Again "if" he has a family, does he manage the family well. There is no requirement to have a family. "If" the person is a man, he is to be the husband of one wife. Just as there is no requirement to have a family and no requirement to be married, there is no requirement to be a male. Denominations throughout the body of Christ have not made it mandatory for a Pastor to be married because the passage does not require that. Blessings!

[formeyousee]

Sorry, I caught your comment late after I had posted my last. I notice your several uses of the word "if". I only see it once in that passage at the beginning of verse one. Can you validate that because it creates "either or" choices that I don't see in the text.

[inhistime2007]

All denominations have seen these verses at least in part as "if" verses. "If" there is a family, the family must be well managed and controlled. No church I know of says that if a man doesn't have a family he cannot be a Pastor. In fact many men who are seminary are not even married. Does a church refuse to hire them because they have no children? No because they consider this an "if" passage. They are right.

[formeyousee]

If you will observe starting at verse 8 as the qualifications extend to the deacons who serve under the authority of the elders the behavior of the wife is inclusive of the home. Her behavior ( along with the children) can disqualify a man from the office of deacon.

[inhistime2007]

Verse 11 where it mentions women does not say "their wives" to make these women the wives of the deacons or wives of the elders. Instead the qualifications reflect the same qualifications as the men (see Jamieson, Faussett and Brown Commentary). Phoebe is named as a Deacon Rom. 16:1.

[formeyousee]

I have that commentary. It's a good one but I believe inaccurate here. Are you suggesting that the office of deacon is fufilled by 2 genders and verses 8 - 10 are for the men; verse 11 is for the women; then back to the men with verse 12? That's not a natural flow of scripture. And the greek word used for Phoebe is the same word Jesus used pertaining to serving - the word just means servant. That doesn't mean it's the technical office of a deacon.

[inhistime2007]

The Greek word used for Phoebe is the same word used for men Deacons. All Deacons are servants in the church, men and women. In verse 8 Deacons are connected to the Elders by "likewise". In verse 11 women are connected to both by "likewise". All of the verses flow together "likewise".

[inhistime2007]

Also women are told to be rulers of their household (1 Timothy 5:14). See a Greek lexicon to see that the wording which means rulers or controllers - to be masters of a house exercising authority, despot (WordStudy Dictionary). She too qualifies as the despot of her home. Blessings.

[formeyousee]

Concerning your response to the "ifs" statement. There's nothing in this passage that warrants adding this little greek word which totally re-defines the text. The only thing that warrants it is the church's drift toward the modern culture. No denomination, church, seminary, not even me or you are the standard. God's original word is the standard. But I will say you are much more insightful than most believers I talk to.

[inhistime2007]

The context is already bordered by verse 1. It says if "anyone" aspires to the office of overseer. The Greek "tis" is not gender specific and thereby includes "anyone" male or female. The context forces us to understand the "if" male "if" married "if" one has children. We have to apply consistency here and no Pastor was ever excluded in scripture because he didn't have children. If you can apply "if" to any part, then "if" can be applied to the whole.

[formeyousee]

I just caught your comment on 1 Timothy 5:14. You are correct on your greek here. I did a study a few years back on this passage as it relates also to Titus 2. But, that doesn't change that ultimately in an intact family the husband bears the chief responsibility as ruler over the home in which the wife also rules.

[inhistime2007]

It is indeed correct that the woman is also the ruler in the family. There is no scripture that says that the husband bears the chief responsibility as ruler over the home. That is a tradition that is not supported by scripture. Thanks for your compliment. You are welcome to my blog as well at strivetoenter (DOT) com (DOT) wim

[inhistime2007]

Oops I gave the wrong link. It should be strivetoenter (DOT) com (slash) wim

I am very welcoming to those who disagree with me to dialog agreeably. For the most part I have not had too many complementarians who would dialog at all. We are the body of Christ and should love one another and dialog in that way.

[formeyousee]

And "tis" is an indefinite article in verse 1 as long as it does not find a specific in the surrounding pertaining verses - which this one does. This is basic greek rules that I would guess your aware of judging by the high level of bible exposition I find in your comments. This word becomes a definite article in this context which is why some translations correctly render "man."

[inhistime2007]

There is no specific rule ruling out women in the passage. Women are mentioned in verse 11 therefore they are most certainly included. When my DVD first came out I had a dialog with a Pastor with a doctorate degree and he verified that the construction in this passage does not rule out women. The only thing that he disagreed with was the "husband of one wife" and I took him to the Talmud for the historical explanation.

[inhistime2007]

There is no Greek rule that would make the "tis" with a definite article. Absolutely no rule at all. I would also love to "meet" you on my blog. The restrictions on size of our comments is not conducive to a real dialog. Also I am cleaning carpets today and only have a few minutes now and then as I clean out the dirty water.

[formeyousee]

I understand your time restraints. Actually, my son & I are headed to church in about 20 min. The greek rule is the same one used translating all pronouns (indefinite) to a definining word because of surrounding text that make the object plain. )i.e. him translated Gabriel or them translated the pharasiees. I clean carpets at my church so I feel your pain (smile).

[inhistime2007]

I am glad to have someone to share my carpet woes with. Thanks! BTW there is no rule that would make this indefinite pronoun into definite male or indefinite men. I appreciate you trying though. The first ones to get copies of my DVD were CBMW, John MacArthur and "the" complementarian Pastor (Phd). He gave me high marks. The others have chosen not to respond. Blessings!

[formeyousee]

I now see your point. You are correct on the greek and I have made a grammatical error. I was confusing the article and the subject. No pride here. Please accept my apology.

[inhistime2007]

Apology accepted. I appreciate your humility. That is a very good character trait.

[formeyousee]

Allowing scripture to interpet scripture, if you'll notice the selection of the 1st church deacons in Acts 6, ANER (male only) is used to select that office - not ANTHROPOS (male or female). Yes, all men & women serving in the church are "deacons/deaconesses/servants" , but all do not technically fufill the office of deacon. And I sorry to say that the way you still suggest using "likewise" from verse 1 to 13 does not flow throughout that passage although I do see where you are coming from.

[inhistime2007]

The very first deacons were male, however that doesn't mean that deacons must always be male. That would be reading into scripture an argument from silence i.e. because the first were only male therefore only males can be deacons. Scripture says otherwise. Phoebe was a deacon. Church history records many women deacons up until the year 350 AD.

[formeyousee]

Once that is established, should he lose wife he does not become disqualified. The congregation has already witnessed his family leadership. He does not need to be re-married to prove what is already proven. So, I'm not putting anymore emphasis on the text than is warranted. Neither am I putting any less emphasis than is needed. The list of qualifications is there for a reason.

[inhistime2007]

The problem you have is that you are confusing having a wife with managing the household. 1 Timothy 3:4 shows that household is the children. Keeping his children "under control" is "managing the household". Nowhere is marriage said to be keeping your wife "under control". Verse 4 can be nothing other than the children.

[lonnell23]

The Bible does not state complete silence,but the women are restricted from some kind of speaking.And Paul tells us in 2 Timothy that a women can not teach nor usurp authority over the man.That is what kind of speaking he means no preaching and no teaching,unless its to women and children.

[inhistime2007]

Paul shows what kind of teaching is restricted. In chapter 1 he tells Timothy that he is left behind to stop the false teaching. In context the teaching that is stopped is only false teaching. One cannot get Paul stopping godly Christian women who are teaching correct biblical doctrine. I highly recommend that you get a copy of the DVD set and see the full argument in context. Once you see it in context, you will be better informed should you want to ask questions about the context.

[lonnell23]

I have taking the scripture in context,and yes he did leave Timothy to stop false teachers but if you keep reading he transitions in chapter 2 from telling him to silence the false teacher to exhorting Timothy which means urging him to do what was right,and thats when he made the statment about the women.And said I suffer not or I permit no women to teach.

[gailowens]

I say this in love you probably will think I'm an idiot I have watched all the clips on youtube. This video has copnvinced me of the opposite position; I wanted so much to be a pastor again I deluded myself but the word of God is so clear, no female leadership in Church of the family. Women cannot exercise authority over a man. Macgregor ministries is one of the best ministries around I wish you well.

[inhistime2007]

It is time that you watched the entire series. The clips on YouTube do not present the biblical evidence in the series. They are only preview clips. One cannot understand the biblical position by only watching the preview clips. Once you have viewed the entire series, email me back and we will talk.

[gailowens]

Amen, This video was an answer to prayer. Keep up the good work

[gailowens]

I pray that this message gets out, I pray that the Church starts to wake up.

[inhistime2007]

The complementarian vs egalitarian debate in the church has produced much heat. It is time to treat each other with great respect while we examine the differences between the two views. This video deals with all of the hard passages of scripture that seem to restrict women but does so without contradiction. The views of John MacArthur and the Council on Biblical Manhood and Womanhood is compared to a verse by verse examination of each disputed passage. Produced in 2006 by MM Outreach.

[gailowens]

God bless you MM outreach I will purchase this as soon as possible. At last women may have a place in the Church.

[inhistime2007]

Thank you for the encouragement! The church needs all of the gifts of each member of the body - including women. It is time to release the women that God has called into his service.