Empire - Obama and Afghanistan - Part 2

[eastariel]

I think Obama defines these foreign civilian casualties as "politically correct murder."

That's because there might be a terrorist hiding somewhere in Afghanistan, so if he destroys the entire country, those terrorists will have to go somewhere else. And of course, America will follow those terrorists wherever they go, helping them to recruit more terrorists.

[umid95]

i really wished to kill myself when man said he cannot afford coke(70cents)..F##k the entire world!

[tomludwig1]

the afghan war is the heroin trade, corporations deceiving the american taxpayer, exploitation of the gas line under construction to india, our fueling the economy by promoting hatred, wasting lives, covering up the deception and creating enemies for generations to come. congress refuses to make amenments be passed as this war destroys our economy. the bands of thugs should have been eliminated by special forces after the unemployed starving al qaeda want a be starving goat herder farmers.

[Seanus32]

America loves stirring the hornets' nest. They think they are doing the world a favor by intervening in things which are not their business. In a world of symbols and guilt by association, we should resent the disservice they are doing to normal people, esp Americans, in putting them in the line of fire.

Here's an idea, go and send all those politicians and arms firms reps to fight. How about that? Let those feckin sods earn their profits by putting THEIR lives on the line.

[jimwal2008]

@Seanus32

On the contrary, America is a status quo power. Stirring the hornets nest is the last thing it wants to do.

Also the large majority of Afghanis are still(10 years on) very glad the Americans ended the Taliban rule. A large majority still want the Americans to stay.

War is disgusting to me the same as it is to you. But this program ignores the fact normal Afghanis, especially the women, are better off now than they have been - probably ever.

[Seanus32]

@jimwal2008 Of course they want to stir the hornets' nest. They operate a policy of divide and conquer. Granted, it's not all about Sunni/Shia fractions/schisms but many see it that way.

Yes, life improved for some but it's not for them to change the world according to their vision, is it?

They are not better off as the heroin trade was snuffed out. Major profits formerly came from that lucrative trade but there have been multiple crackdowns on it. Others have stepped in.

[jimwal2008]

@Seanus32

The heroin trade was dead before the Americans showed up back in 2001. Taliban Killed it.

It's sprung up again, because American's don't want to lose local support by trying to stop it.

As I said America is a Status Quo power. They are not out to rob country's. US pays the same market price as everyone else. They are most interested in keeping supply stable - maintaining the status quo.

[Seanus32]

@jimwal2008 That's just not true. The trade wasn't flourishing as opulently as they'd have liked but it was very much a going concern. Maybe you are a higher authority than Sandro Tucci, the guy at the head of the Narcotics Division of the UN who gave me/us a speech on the issue way back in 2000 as part of my LLM (Criminal Law component).

Aha, so you are telling me that popularity trumps International Law?

A status quo country? That's absurd, sorry. Supply of what, btw?

[jimwal2008]

@Seanus32

"Supply of what, btw?"

Trade. As far as the middle east is concerned - oil.

"Aha, so you are telling me that popularity trumps International Law?"

Just giving my opinion why the US is still in Afghanistan - i.e.mainly too many powerful reputations on the line.

[jimwal2008]

@Seanus32

That was Sandro Tucci in 2000. In 2001 prior to 9/11, UN was reporting the Taliban had destroyed almost all the poppy fields under it's control.

You can read it here:

globalresearch.ca/articles/CHO­404A.html

The people who control the Heroin trade today is not theTaliban, it's the US backed Afghani Northern Alliance

[jimwal2008]

@Seanus32

"Yes, life improved for some but it's not for them to change the world according to their vision, is it?"

Thats a ethical debate. It's not for Afghanis to treat there women like cattle either.

My opinion is it's up to them(US). They are actually making things better there, so why would I complain? I can see why Americans would complain, because they are the ones bearing a huge part of the burden.

[Seanus32]

@jimwal2008 I agree, ethically they shouldn't do that. However, where is US intervention in the case of Palestine? I recommend 'Sleepless Gaza Jerusalem' on Youtube to show life on the ground there. (50hrs of footage). It goes well beyond beatings. Women and kids often die and live under the constant threat of their homes being bulldozed. You don't see foreigners stepping into America to stop domestic violence and tell them what's what, do you?

Taxpayers might be angry, yes

[jimwal2008]

@Seanus32

The US isn't consistent, I agree. Doesn't change the fact that the intervention has been a very positive development for the Afghani people.

Which was my beef with this program & 90% of commentary on the Afghani war.

[jimwal2008]

@Seanus32

@Seanus32

"You don't see foreigners stepping into America to stop domestic violence"

Check Wikipedia for the Taliban's treatment of women: it's absolutely sickening

Yeah, things are bad in other parts of the world. I can't think of a worse life though, than being a women under the Taliban though.

As bad as things are still are for Afghani women, it's nothing like it was. Which is another thing the anti war brigade ignore. You have people in denial on both sides.

[jimwal2008]

@Seanus32

BTW 50 years ago before the soviets or the Americans gave a fuck, Afghanistan was a still one of the poorest places on earth, with the lowest life expectancy on earth - just 31 years. It's now 44 years. Up from 40 under the Taliban.

[Seanus32]

@jimwal2008 And you believe that it was all motivated by altruism? ;)

[jimwal2008]

@Seanus32

No, basically down to a few years of madness following 9/11. Reason they are still there is because too many reputations are on the line. Obama could have pulled out 2 years ago, but would have probably cost him the presidency. All those beloved generals & "defense" lobbyists would have cut his nuts off. If he pulls out now, it definitely costs him his job.

Doesn't mean Afghanis aren't benefiting from occupation.

[Seanus32]

@jimwal2008 What madness are you referring to? It was a war that was designed never to be one. Watch Aaron Russo's (RIP) long interview on that topic. They calculated that 'saving face', as well as many other factors, were justifications in themselves to stay.

Political suicide? Perhaps but when is the moment ever opportune? Rich folk wanted a new Vietnam and others are left to suffer.

I thought Operation Moshtarak was to be quick and effective. 30,000 more troops and what???

[kasimhussain19]

13.24 "Within Pakistan there is still hope!".....May that hope burn strong in our hearts and minds against this relentless,deceptive,emotionle­ss,cruel,immoral,ignorant and frail enemy (Zionists)...Inshallah....dont spend too much time listening to all this....the only thing in this universe you can trust is Allah and the Quran.

[TheJUNGLESURFER]

war is great

[TimeGod12]

This show is extremely informative and insightful.

Good to know that there is atleast one news channel in West that shows truth correctly.

[WalterWalkie]

yeh but someone has to do something

[wardaknz]

US is the deases of all humenity.

[jumbe]

A religious science lesson. For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.

Majority killed in these wars are innocent women and children. Those killed become martyrs whose rewards are immeasurable. The killers are earning their place in the pit of Hell whose punishment is equally immeasurable. Think about it.

[lendmeurears]

Forget the war on terror, drugs, crime, racism, sexism, etc... We need a war on war... wait no... We dont need WARS!!!!!

[JesusManson323]

Obama was a trick, a deception.

He is Bush in Blackface.

[deadlyphantom44]

the last comment about running away from women and familys as a reason for wars was a bit silly.

also i would have liked some discussion on caspian oil and how important that is for the americans and the pipelines. how significant are these factors in the strange misaiming of the american target when bin laden is up in the mountains why are they dropping bombs on villages in afghanistan? because they want a regime that supports their bases and pipelines?

[tpvalley]

@deadlyphantom44

the russians found $trillions worth of minerals in afganistan and america knew this before the war, uranium, copper.

a chinese firm has just started a $3billion mining contract there helped by america.

china owns americas netional dept, connect the dots!

America is a murderer!

[helix4811]

@tpvalley

but if you connect the dots, then its the chinese who are running this entire war....

[tpvalley]

@helix4811

i may very well be, they do own americas national dept, they bought the dept!

[helix4811]

@tpvalley

well they only bought about a third of it, they didn't buy all of it....oh and the Saudi's bought about 30% of it too

[tpvalley]

@helix4811

be wierd if bin laden owned 30% aswell!

[helix4811]

@tpvalley

well you never know,

freaky thing is, a week after the US banks froze Osama's assets, the stock market experienced a massive fluctuation...

[tpvalley]

@helix4811

if osama did commit 9-11 why didnt they just take his assets to pay towards damage.?

[helix4811]

@tpvalley

blood money? or maybe they did and didn't tell us, i mean, the US has been known to not tell the citizens things that they should know....who know, it could be a number of things, or we could be wrong and Osama withdrew all his financial assets out of the country before 9/11.....i mean you never know right?

[deadlyphantom44]

call of the stupid war develop heat pumps and solar power and ween ourselves off oil get out of saudi arabia stop supporting israel against the palestinians because they are allies and a base for US control of the oil region and Bin Laden wont be a problem and muslims wont be prepared to blow themselves up in terrorist attacks.

[kaviiz]

Bravo al Jazeera!

[onlygoodhunsadeadun1]

Great series !

[0510wa]

hiding away from the U.S and the british forces is NOT what people on earth call war. the taliban need to know that. the loss is very hard to forget and continue normal lives without defeat. may god forgive the taliban, and may some talibans be proud of thier "bravory and corage". amin.

[0510wa]

the U.S needs to cleare out the taliban, fast. however, in this case, more miletary soldiers will die from the bullets and bombs of the taliban. in a few years time if the british & the U.S don't show huge progeress in afganistan, in my point of view, the british & the U.S should retern back to thier homes and the war should be called off. it is totally clear to the eyes of the enemy that America and "britain" is one of the most dominant country to stand on earth.

[0510wa]

and cause more distruction, and shred some of the remaining peace of pakistan. may allah create peace into the talibans hearts and prevent the U.S forces to aledge more deaths of the innocent and the taliban. amin. (remember this war will either destroy the world or it "will" be stopped/ finished and brought to an end.) also, may allah lighten the hearts of all the people who have lost thier loved ones. amin...

[mznd72]

If the world was filled with more people like you, we would not see the level of suffering of humanity. May peace be upon you and those you love.

[0510wa]

Not only that, the taliban say this is an holy war. they claim they fight for islam. i strongley disagree, as suaside in islam is strongly forbiden. what the taliban has done is brainwashed those innocents who have lost their beloved ones. and then the taliban try to say that they have lived their role as a muslim, incorect, they have transformed little children into grown terrorist. they hav forced children to hold a rifle in thier hands. all the taliban can do now is run further into the west

[suemorphplus2009]

The problem is that the ethics of the U.S. Military is about saving the lives of fellow American soldiers. May I ask, what's all that bad about risking your life for someone who is malnourished, impoverished, and less-educated than you? History shows that time and time again, people all over the spectrum of intelligence and education can tell that someone cares, much less how high of a priority their lives are in the eyes of the occupiers. The U.S. either changes this or loses the war.

[0510wa]

As a result, how is the U.S to blame? that they are the killers of the innocent. they want to clear out the taliban, but the taliban are simply making the situation worse. thousends of innocent people are yet to die, but all the surrounding people can do is watch. may god forgive the U.S and the taliban. amin

[ahmedshah1990]

Taliban most of the time hide in the very high mountains of Afghanistan including the Hindu Kush. Most of Afghanistan at the moment is outside of American control, Karzai controls only 10% of the country. If Americans were serious about the war then they would press onto the taliban, but they know that it will cause hundreds of lives.

There are many ways to save civilians, yes collatral damage does happen. But America must do more if it wants to win the war. Period.

[suemorphplus2009]

I agree, it would be risky to take control of the mountains in the Hindu Kush by force, but the politicians won't do it, because they need to advertise that almost no American lives lost. It happened in Vietnam in the rainforest, and it could happen here unless policy changes. It doesn't look as if president Obama is willing, at least so far, to take that risk.

[xxsaferdxx]

Must do more collateral damage? Holy cow man, do you even care about innocent children? The more the US goverment destroys families, the more people that will turn against it. It makes sense. Somebody kills your family, your kids, wouldn't you want revenge? Wouldn't you want justice?

[0510wa]

when it comes to civilians being wounded and many dieing, its the taliban to blame. the primary reason to why thousands of afgan cevilians are dieing, is because taliban forces have sheltered into cevilan towns and large spread areas. the U.S forces are trying extremely hard to whipe out taliban forces , but the taliban forces are hiding away from the U.S forces by hiding in innocent peoples homes.

[suemorphplus2009]

The problem is that while it's possible to take the mountains where the Taliban hide, much less the roadsides, but the president doesn't want that many soldiers to die. He treats it like Iraq, where we think securing the cities wins when it doesn't. Most of Afghanistan is sparsely populated.

[LatifAhmadi]

In generosity and helping others be like a river...

In compassion and grace be like sun....

In concealing others' faults be like night...

In anger and fury be like dead...

In modesty and humility be like earth...

In tolerance be like a sea...

Either exist as you are or be as you like.

MEVLANA

[LatifAhmadi]

We love our country

The green gardens the blue sky

We love our county

The full rivers the high mountains

We love our coutry

The distroied houses and children

We love our country

The old people the young person

We love our county

Oh the white bird, please spread our voice, that, we die for our country.

[monicasm123]

The bitter wind blows and the opium

Poppies bend

The only requiem to

A war without end

Darkness is falling

On this tragic land

Pity poor

Afghanistan

XXX

Monica

[afglionheart]

@monicasm123 lol u said pitty poor afghanistan reminded me of a hadith... Pity poor Taliqan (a region in Afghanistan) that at that place are treasures of Allah, but these are not of gold and silver but consist of people who have recognised Allah as they should have. (Al-Muttaqi al-Hindi, Al-Burhan fi Alamat al-Mahdi Akhir al-zaman, p.59)

[helix4811]

@monicasm123

lol

[bayr0yalty]

@monicasm123 wow

[monicasm123]

Repressed by brutal fundamentalism crushed by the iron hands of imperialism Opposing ideologies clash and Afghanistan is squeezed civilisations clash and Afghanistan bleeds

A country little better than mediaeval the wheels have fallen off this so called axis of evil Idealistic dreams lie broken in half as democracy here means freedom to starve

[tpvalley]

@monicasm123 america kills, america rapes, impervious to morallity, through the sourest of grapes, first they enslave the negro, then its the commies, now its the muslim, in the gravest of follies, an axis of evil, thats right for sure, the axis is now obamas, a token negro precured, who is the tyrant, what can we say? the evil all comes from the USA. black ball the bastards, dont let them trade, let us suffer no more of americas tirade,

[LatifAhmadi]

Let 's be honest and clear.... Do you ever think that US did nothing for Afghans after we finished your everlasting duty that couldn't done it for centurey. To make it sample and short. We means afghans brought the red army down and finished your job. what you did for us is? nothing, meaning nothing and no help at all. Then time created buffer zone for taliban.

If you wanted to help Afghans why you didn't after Red army gone with shame.

If some one do good for you at least say thank you..

[LatifAhmadi]

when will people learn? HISTORY has AFGHANISTAN as a country that has never been conquered.. you can hold it for awhile but then you'll leave it with your head, hearts and morale down to its lowest point... people there just want to be left alone and mind their own business, they dont want change, all they want is to live life day in and day out with the God-given land that they have...they are practical and simple, they will always resist change... going there is a sure suicide.

[fuckbigbrother]

Alquaida just doesn't exist.

Do not believe zionist lies

[Dengwazhere]

Americans who dont support the war in Afghanistan you must know that your soliders are the freedom fighters you have all been just to blind to see it, A country that has been at war for more than 30 years it is about time the Modern world fought as one to say no to opperression, to fight for freedom and our god given right to free will, It may have to take the first Black president of America with an arab name to solve the conflict and if we dont support him we fail as human beings.

[Dengwazhere]

Im disturbed by what these middle aged men are saying, im 20 years old, i belive this war is winnable by pen , but the Taliban and Alqiada are the worst things to happen to the middle east, if there was no Alqaida there would be no 19/11 and then there would no civilian casulties in Afghanistan. But I challenge the muslim's of the east to be human beings, God created us in favour of Angels, We must not fight the devils war, They tell u to be Jihadist but you fight in the name of the devil.

[basak983]

Aljezera thebest news ever fuck the zionist run meida like BBC, FOX, NBC, CNN fuk them all.

[fatimah1959]

It is really sad to see how the Pakistanian are killing eachother. Truely, it is a sad day.

[almao2006]

Great JoB

[hanayesh]

When it comes to Afghanistan, Aljazeera is nowhere close to impartial The news just falls short of saying Taliban and AlQaeda was the best govt. in the world. If they really believe in Qaeda/Taliban kind of regime, why dont the Sheikhs in the peninsula invite them there so we Afghans can live in peace?I know we need water first, but there is a market for Coke too and if it is produced in Kabul, some part of the revenue goes to Afghans I m fed up with AlJazeera and its propaganda for Taliban.

[almao2006]

Coke for more than 1/2 $

You are really an econmic Genius!!!!!!

[kabaye01]

For years the Arabs are medling in our country culture and affairs, by the name of islam and by abusing the name of Allah and mohammad may peace be upon him.

you Arabs are a shame of ISLAM.

[786hanif]

this a rascist remark. islam is against any form of racism. and the prophet is reported to have said that we should love the arabs because he is from the arabs.

[Whispers5000]

you cant just put the blame on arabs, sure they may have started it but that doesnt mean that Afghanistan,iran, Iraq and everyone else cant end it. every one sees themselves as the victims no one is ready to accept the fact that every one helped put the bad name on Islam and Muslims.

[ghostenders]

You're right. AlJazeera does seem to lean towards defeatism. Im an american, but it observed Afghani/Pakistani/Indian tensions for a while now. Do you think that taliban is still a tool to keep Afghanistan under control of Pakistan? Because that what it seems like to me.

[micahgee]

yes and Independent!

AJE is the best news

[micahgee]

its sooo expensive

thats the point. They CANT afford it and don't even have clean water to drink...

[regulate112]

Al -azeera English is the best news channel. There is NO DOUBT here.

LOL, compare it to the mind-numming semantics of Fox.

[leotakesleo]

"not fighting war against anybody?-Ibrahimi"..War in afghanistan is for five trillion cubic meter of gas reserves,Gold reserves,Uranium reserves and much more in unexplored reserves in afghanistan.These were soviet esitmates.Why aljzeera doesnt make public discussion in natural resources in afghanistan which is the only reason now anglo-europeans are in afghanistan.But they wont cause these are all sold out political-journalists..!!!!!

[TRUTHvsDECEPTION]

and deception is revealed AMEEN !

5*

[leotakesleo]

ahmed rashid is a paid stooge of anglo-europeans....and shuja is a perfect personification of Lord Mickalay's education system.Lord M said we will introduce such education system in india in which they would look like indians but they would think,talk,walk and dress like an anglo....lol....All are fucking sold out journalists and paid agents even in politics of pakistan.A real revolution is needed to oust pakistan of these elements..!

Again Aljazeera is a mouth piece of anglo-hegemony..!

[koolDeception]

Screwing around too much with Pakistan will not be very healthy.

Pakistan forces all ways has some die hard patriot.

Shouldn't be push to the edge.

[McGGib]

This is the best discussion on both Afghanistan and IRaq that I have seen on TV. The US people need to see programs like this, but they never will. US Media is under strict control both from the government and from the industrial-military complex. It is not accidental that the US bombed AlJazeera in both Iraq and Afghanistan.

[micahgee]

This is too intelligent for US cable news =P

the excuse is that according to Polls "Americans don't want international news" ! This is fundamentally about American policy and its implications.

Hey, go and watch more AJE! Empire is a very good show. I recommend On War and Fault Lines.

[PwnJuice5k]

According to Polls "Americans don't want international news". Really? I'm American and I'm watching this.

So according to what poll are you basing this on? Is this some biased bullshit you pulled out of your ass or did you actually take your time to research?

[connect4raza]

BULLSHIT ZIONIST PROPOGANDA "DIVIDE ND RULE" THE AMERICANS WERE DIRECTLY RESPONSIBLE FOR BRINGING SADDAM 2 POWER HE WAS A DICTATOR WHO KILLED MILLIONS OF IRAQIS WITH THE BLESSING OF AMERICA THEY EVEN ARMED HIM nd instigated HIM 2 ATTACK IRAN nd GIVE HIM CHEMICAL WEAPONS 2 OPERATE AGAINST INNOCENT IRANIANS nd even HIS own countrymen.

[connect4raza]

WEN HE BECAME a 'MONSTER' in the EYES of his own ppl nd the WORLD THESE MOTHERFUCKER ZIONISTS decided 2 remove him 2 DISGUISE THE WORLD "OH THEY REMOVED THE DICTATOR" WHICH WAS THEIR SELF CREATED WHICH THEY ARMED HIM 2 TEETH DAY ND NIGHT 24/7 2 ATTACK IRAN.

[connect4raza]

THE REASON TODAY AMERICA is in IRAQ is BC OF AMERICA THEY R PLAYIN 'DIVIDE ND RULE" so the IRAQIS DIE FIGHTIN EACH OTHER nd they remain there FOR YEARS ND YEARS PLUNDERIN nd RAPING IRAQ'S WEALTH .DEATH 2 THE UNITED SUCKS of AMERICA AND its ILLEGITIMATE SON ISRAEL UNITE IRAQIS ND COME OVER THE WEDGE THT HAS BEEN CREATED BY THESE IMPERIAL ZIONISTS 2 KICK THEIR FILTHY ASSES OUT OF YOUR COUNTRY.

[Pokhton]

AlJazeeraEnglish thx for the great work and for the good and not fake propaganda (CNN FOX AND AND AND)

[Pashtunlad]

People coined any war as Russian Vietnam or American Vietnam II....they all got it wrong...This is Afghanistan and for last 4000 years almost every superpower are defeated in the Land of Afghan. Sadly the world do not heed at the pass history. Their wealth has turn them into an arrogant being, thinking that they can subdue the Afghans. No one in this world can ever claimed had ever won over the Afghans..Period..

[KhanZazai]

well said

[akshatwarm]

yeah u r right bro

[penkallli]

Alhamdulilah, for once some truth is out; What AlQaeda Iraq and other jihadi froups have said since long time ago denying targeting civilians and bombong the Samarra mosque; in 2005 AlQaeda Iraq released a video called Umar Hadid where they denied bombing civilians and said it was the americans and their helpers that rigged car bombs, Alhamdulilah, truth gets out peice by peice

[Pashtunlad]

Penkalli...thank you and 3 things that cannot be hide..

1) The sun

2) the Moon

3) The truth.

They can lie to thier teeth but the truth will float sooner or later..

[seanboy80]

There was a time years ago that I would totally disbelieve everything this video is saying and brush it off as liberal propaganda nonsense. Years later, and tons of research, I don't find this the least bit unbelievable.

Iran or Pakistan is next on the list. WWIII is looming on the horizon.

[franzb55]

AlJazeera's Empire series is an outstanding production. And, Marwan Bisharah is an excellent, often provocative moderator. His views and those of his guests were biased in the direction of peace, not in the direction of the preservation of US domination in Iraq and Afghanistan. The video documentaries that opened and closed the panel discussion were perfect methods to frame complicated issues. Indeed, they were an elegant example of the best in modern journalism.

Bravo. Franz B, US

[YvonJrDenis]

Facts about American women,

According to the National Center for Injury Prevention and Control, American women experience about 5 million intimate partner-related physical assaults and rapes every year. 1200 are murdered. 600 women every day were raped or sexually assaulted in 2006. Just like the Taliban we want our fat, ugly, old women covered. But our young and beautiful we want them half nude.

[FreedomForMankind]

How about a world without money, Governments, courts, religions and armies?

The solution is inside you!