All have sinned and greatly offended the holy God of the bible. The just punishment is death then hell. That's not Gods will. He suffered and died on the cross paying for the law you broke in His life's blood so He could legally dismiss your case. You must repent turn from your sin and trust alone in Jesus Christ for your salvation.
God bless you for this video Greg. I use to attend Harvest when I was a new Christian many years ago in Riverside, CA. That was some 29 years ago. I'm still living for our Lord in PA.
Two problems. HarvestTV do not allow comments. This is because such preachers don't wish to be questioned. Secondly, he begins with discussing a personal relationship and then broadcasts in public. Personal means personal. Finally, to speak from ones mouth does not mean preaching or evangelising. It means to speak out of grace, or speak words that are a reflection of who Jesus was, that of love, or to speak words of love. I have major issues with Lauries understanding.
"But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name," -John 1:12 We receive Jesus by praying to Him. If you repent and put your trust in Jesus as Savior and Lord, He will save you by His grace. We are saved by grace alone, not by works(Ephesians 2:8-9).
This dude is without any doubt sick and deluded. Everything he says comes from his imagination and wishful thinking. In fact, his thinking is soooo foggy all he can do is spew forth cliché after cliché....no critical thinking here, move on everyone.
@smackcheeks So you looking for critical thinking. Have you examined the Bible for yourself? Do you realize that many of the most intelligent people that have ever lived have examined the Bible and found that it is true? Do you realize that the Bible contains information that only God could know? Do you realize that the Bible contains scientific information long before scientists discovered what is written there? Do you realize that archeology confirms the Bible and has never contradicted it?
Lordship Salvation is the biggest Cult in America. Greg Laurie, Ray Comfort and John Macarthur are all false prophets sending millions to Hell with their false Gospel.
No where in the Bible dose it say pray a paryer then Jesus will come in to ur life. It says to repent now to repent is that u come to a place in ur life that u hate ur sins that u truen from them and trust on christ for the fogivness of ur sins that means to look to christ as lord that means to give up all u have in ur life and trusting in Christ alon to save u.
9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
@Tina4Yhwh I understand what you are saying about saying a prayer to invite Jesus into your life. But remember that prayer is communication with God. He wants to hear what is on our hearts. He wants us to express what is in our heart to Him. The Bible does say to "confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord" It also says to "open the door of your heart" so that Jesus can have fellowship with you. What better way to express our thoughts and hearts to God than through prayer? It pleases God.
There are points people make that point at God's existence. There are points also people make suggesting that God doesn't exist. The points people use to make suggesting his non-existence are reasons enough to credit His existence.
@Alvamations Sorry, that's ridiculous. If I say, "No one has every seen a real unicorn, there are no photos, no one has captured one, no one has evidence for them," that does NOT give credit to the idea that they *do* exist. Do you believe in Allah, Zeus or Thor? NO??? Doesn't that give credit to the idea they DO exist?
Now many of us would protest that we are good people. Isaiah 64:6 "We have all become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous deeds are like a polluted garment." That's the difference between God and all the other gods - their systems tell you that you might be good enough to work your way to Heaven. God leaves no doubt. You're not. And neither am I. So what are we to do?
So we now have no excuse when it comes to God's laws and the judgement that He will one day execute upon us. Hebrews 9:27 says "And just as it is appointed for man to die once, and after that comes judgement". So we will stand before God one day and what will we say? Even if we think we've kept most of the law, James 2:10 says "For whoever keeps the whole law but fails in one point has become accountable for all of it."
The 10 Commandments are a proof that God exists since they are His (not Allah's) laws. They were given as a covenant between Himself and His people and were written down so that we would have no excuse as to what they were. It's the same concept that would explain the difference between a verbal and written contract. A verbal contract is open to greater interpretation than a written contract.
RT SubconsciousGatherer - as far as having never seen a universe maker, you've never "seen" the person who assembled your computer either - you just assume that he or she exists because there sitting on your desk or lap or wherever is a computer. The same principle can be applied to God with respect to His universe - or would you say that you are an athiest with respect to the maker of you computer?
RT SubconsciousGatherer - The God who created the universe would have to be greater than His creation. And yes, I agree I merely provided for the existence of a god - which since you don't believe in any I felt was a good starting point to so that we could start from a common place - acknowledging the existance of a god
RT SubconsciousGatherer - you pose some great questions and I will answer each in the order you posed them...First yes, I do believe this universe is so incredible that a creator is necessary. Can you name one thing humans have made from nothing? Grass for instance. Can you google the formula to make grass from nothing (and seeds don't count)?
Not everyone believes there is such a thing as a god. How do you expect to share your particular version of a god with someone who is unconvinced about the whole concept of gods?
A question I would have for you would be "are you looking for an answer to someone else who doesn't believe that God exists? or do you not believe that God exists?"
@raybo633 I do not believe in any gods. I'm trying to understand how people justify their beliefs when there is no evidence for any gods. I want to better understand where theists are coming from. I used to believe in a god, but now see that I was unjustified in doing so. I guess you could say I'm trying to comprehend how people continue to hold the point of view I found myself happily leaving.
There are two proofs that I can offer quickly to prove God exists. The first is creation. When you look at your screen you don't think "huh what a wonderful happenstance of events that this computer came together on its own". Yet when we look at creation we often try to do exactly that - and creation is infinitely more complex than the most advanced computer. The existence of the universe naturally implies a designer - God.
@raybo633 I used to think that way, but only because I never really THOUGHT about it. Let me ask you 2 questions: Do you think a creator is required because (in your opinion) this universe is SO incredible that it MUST have a creator? Secondly, is this creator you imagine EQUAL to its creation, LESS than its creation or GREATER than its creation?
@raybo633 As a Part 2 to my last post, let me say that you've just "proved" the existence of any and every god that anyone has imagined. ANYBODY who believes in a god, no matter its name or attributes can use your same argument to back up their invented god. Secondly, we know how computers and monitors are made because we can witness them being made. You've never seen a universe maker at work, so you can't claim its the same thing because it clearly is not.
the second proof I can offer is your conscience. If Darwin is correct and the true pattern of survival is survival of the fittest, we would have no reason to evolve a conscience. That standard of right and wrong that we are each imbued with implies a standard giver. We often explode these standards into the big sins of course we would feel guilty if we murder, but why do we feel guilty when we lie? Thats because Gods law, the Ten Commandments, are written on our heart (Romans 2).
The two proofs I can offer are 1) the physical creation and 2) the conscience of man. If we are honest we have to admit that each by its very existence points us to God.
@raybo633 I'm sorry, quoting the Bible does nothing in this discussion. You can't use the Bible to prove the Bible; that's circular reasoning, and it holds no water. It would be like asking a Muslim, "How do you know Allah is real?" and him saying, "Well, the Koran says blah-blah-blah." Do you see what I mean? "The Bible says so" is about as convincing as a fortune cookie.
@raybo633 First of all, Darwin has nothing to do with what we're talking about, and secondly, you've just proved Allah exists. Your "proof" says nothing about the values of any particular god. A Muslim could argue the same thing you did. Why, if the 10 Commandments are "written on our hearts" would we need them on stone tablets? Seems a bit redundant, don't you think?
@SubconsciousGatherer: You are "trying to understand how people justify their beliefs when there is no evidence for any gods."On the other hand, I am trying to understand what is is that makes a person not believe in God. You sound as someone who still has attraction to people who believe. It's that very thing that can lead you to seek the truth.Seek out a person you respect for their belief in God and ask the questions. It seems that you are trying to understand and know.
@kuhnel1989 I started out as a believer in the God of the Bible, wanting to know him better. I sought him out, I asked questions, I read, I spoke with those whose beliefs I respected. This lead me to realizing that gods don't exist; they are a human invention, and it's so obvious to see. I'm completely OK with this, but now I wonder WHY people still believe in gods. If you want to tell me a god of some kind exists, then I'll politely ask you to give me some reasons for your belief. Thanks.
@SubconsciousGatherer: I am glad to tell you about my Lord Jesus Christ.God is the one reaching out to us.Luke 16:10 says he has come to seek and to save that which was lost.Matt 11:28&29 Come unto me all who are weary and heavy laden...I will give you rest..I am gentle and humble in heart.
He will not turn you away. John 6:37The one who comes to me I will certainly not cast out.
God is there reaching out to you and by his grace through faith you are saved.Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ.
@kuhnel1989 Reading the Bible to an atheist is like reading a fortune cookie to someone who isn't superstitious. In other words, it's a waste of time. I've read the Bible and I'm not the least bit impressed or moved by it. Frankly it's one of the worst books I've ever read, far from what I'd call "The Good Book." There is a ton of filler, and the God character is hopelessly flawed, immoral, wicked, petty, jealous, cruel, & vindictive. I'm glad he's fake, because he's not worth worshipping.
@SubconsciousGatherer: I gave biblical support because you asked me to give you reasons for my belief.This is not what you wanted to hear. But for Christians,God's Word is what spoke to them in the first place.Maybe you just need to open your heart to hearing God's voice.It takes a vulnerability to ask God for something.By asking God,you are telling yourself that you need him,you are not adequate,you are helpless.This is where God can whisk you off your feet.And you will never turn back again.
@kuhnel1989 If a Muslim gave you scriptural support from the Koran, would that be convincing for you? No. Should I be convinced by anything you quote from the Bible? No. You are suggesting I open my heart to God. What you fail to realize is that, as an atheist, I don't believe in any gods, yours included. What you are suggesting I do is equal to me suggesting you give Santa Claus a chance to prove himself to you. Open your heart to him. Can you? Of course not.
@kuhnel1989 Who are you to tell me I'm inadequate and helpless? That may be how you see yourself, but don't project your own limitations onto me. I'm not perfect, but I'm far from the wretched soul that Christians believe themselves to be. Let's cut to the chase, friend. You are claiming a god of some kind exists. I'm asking you to give proof for this, and I'm telling you that reading some book to me is not going to prove anything. When you can back up your claim, we'll talk. Thanks.
@SubconsciousGatherer: I don't have to back up my claims.It is Christ who backs up his claims through the lives of people who choose to give their lives to him and follow him.
I really appreciate your candidness.It is a crucial thing for Christians to allow these kinds of dialogue with people who don't believe in God.We cannot bury our heads in the sand,go to church,stay within our confines.God is living,active and central part of humanity.Some people choose to opt out.
@kuhnel1989 A Muslim could just as easily say, "I don't have to back up my claims, it is Allah who backs up his claims thru the lives of people who choose to give their lives to him and follow him ." Don't you see that just *saying* "Jesus has done x-y-z" in no way proves anything about whether it's true or not? You can't expect me or anyone to just take your word about something you don't have any evidence for.
@SubconsciousGatherer (Hate this limited #of characters)Faith is in everyone's daily lives and don't realize it.You wake up everyday expecting certain things to happen because you have a certain amt of trust that they will happen.Flip on a switch and light comes on,sit on couch knowing it will hold you.You have faith that people made these things a certain way to function the way they should.You have to a belief due to experience that the maker is trustworthy.Everyone practices faith and trust.
@kuhnel1989 You can't tell me that your faith that a god exists is the same as my (ahem) "faith" in flipping on a light switch or sitting on a couch. Seriously? I can verify the switch and couch exist, I can experience and test them. You can't show me that your god exists in any way, shape or form. I'm sorry, but your analogy is not in the slightest bit related to what we're talking about. Using your line of reasoning you've just proved the existence of every single god every claimed.
@SubconsciousGatherer:I will also cut to the chase.You are "completely OK' with knowing that you cannot know God as noted in your own words.I don't believe that you can explain and reason out everything.If you think about it you cannot understand and articulate things that have been proven and even things that remain to be proven.Primitive man didn't have to know and understand gravity but it existed.You are ok not to know and understand God.That is a choice.
@kuhnel1989 You don't seem to understand that you can't just say something exists (a god) and expect others to agree with you. If you want to claim that someone exists who is eternal & created everything & lives somewhere called heaven (etc.) then you're going to need to prove it's true by explaining just how it is you know this. 5 billion people on this planet do NOT see things the way you do, and your 2 billion fellow Christians are largely in disagreement with each other about their belief.
@SubconsciousGatherer First I like your determination and I mean that positively.Fellow Christians that believe in the Biblical God are essentially in agreement with the doctrines that make "Christ followers" what they are.There are nonessentials that we vigorously debate.What I observe in atheists is that they believe we are physical and nothing more.The flesh and bones are all we are made of.Spiritual thinking are merely neuro and chemical reactions that take place in the brain MATTER.
@SubconsciousGatherer What do you say about a brain that is clinically kept alive. The tissue is viable,the blood circulation is intact,but there is something missing.The soulish element is not there,it cannot think or produce emotions.The emotions you feel,inspirations,passions are what make you and no one else is just like you.
@kuhnel1989 You'd have to ask a biologist & a brain surgeon about your medical related questions. I'm not an expert on such things, & I fail to see what it has to do with you proving there is a god. You're looking at the mysteries of life & you can't explain them, so you insert the idea of a god to answer the mystery...which proves nothing & only complicates things. It answers nothing. "A god did it!" is NOT an answer. Where'd this god you believe in come from?
@SubconsciousGatherer I think you have the intelligence to see beyond this physiological example I cited.You can SEE,FEEL,etc an unresponsive/comatose person on a bed.I think what bothers committed atheists is not the fact that Christians cannot produce evidence of the existence of God but that the Christian is simply "completely OK" with not being able to give enough evidence to an atheist.
If you don't mind I would like you to watch Keith Green on youtube.Many Christians are familiar with KG
@kuhnel1989 What's your point about being able to "see, feel an unresponsive/comatose person"? I know Keith Green's music, I grew up hearing his stuff. I was a born again Christian from childhood to age 33 when I started to honestly seek the truth about "God." That honest search lead me to atheism. I can't prove there *aren't* any gods (just as you can't prove Santa doesn't exist). It is, however, YOUR job to prove your god exists (if you want your belief taken seriously).
@kuhnel1989 If I told you an invisible dragon lives in your garage, yet you couldn't experience it with your 5 senses or test for it, you'd be justified in being skeptical about my claim. There's no reason for you to believe such a story. You're telling me a particular god exists, yet you have no way in the world to back it up, and you're telling ME I need to believe in it, too? Give me some evidence. Don't tell me WHAT you believe (I already know that!) Tell me WHY you believe it.
@SubconsciousGatherer Musician,seeker of truth.He craved(for those who knew him,not strong enough word) truthand spent much of young adult life trying to search.He became a bookworm in philosophy/phers.Delved into various beliefs that only brough dissolution to his thirsty soul.He later became a Christian and was of great impact to Christians everywhere.Listen to hiw own lyrics that tell about this very story.
Song is "Your love broke through" Keith Green. won't let me post site.Youtube it.
@kuhnel1989 It wouldn't matter if Keith Green spent 24 hours a day going on about how great "God" is; it proves nothing. Would a Muslim musician's lyrics about Allah change your mind about Islam? Again, you're not telling me anything I haven't heard before. You're just giving me anecdotal stories that make you feel good about what you already believe, but it gives zero credence to whether or not what you believe is true.
@SubconsciousGatherer I can't convince u on ur terms.Can you convince me that there is no God of the Bible on my terms now that I am a Christian?
The reason I cited Keith Green:he was where u r now.Maybe u would not be as frustrated dealing with someone who was once a seeker(which I seem think u r) and found Christ.What was it that convinced that person?
I sense ur frustrated with not hearing what U want on UR terms.KG died in tragic accident in his 30's sad to say.Seek out current converts.
@kuhnel1989 Are you saying "my terms" are different than "your tems" when it comes to evidence? Do you not realize there is a world of people who believe in all sorts of competing god concepts? Allah, Vishnu, Ganesh, Thor, Baal, Venus, etc. You and I are BOTH atheists to the hundreds of gods humanity has claimed over time. The only difference is that I go one god further than you do. You disregard all the gods that I disregard, yet you hold on to one. Why is that?
@kuhnel1989 Yes, I do hold to the definition of an atheist. I do not believe there are any gods. That is atheism. If you believe in a god or gods, you are a "theist." If you lack belief in any gods, you are an "atheist." I am an atheist. Gnosticism is about claim to KNOW. I don't claim to KNOW whether there are gods or not, but at the same time I don't BELIEVE in any, therefore I'm an agnostic-atheist.
@SubconsciousGatherer As you are ok that you do not hold to a belief in God or any gods I am ok that I can't give the evidence you are looking for in order to believe in the God of the Bible.But I don't discount your stubborness to find truth.I think you are more of an agnostic than an atheist but that's neither here nor there.If you want the book of Keith Green's life you can find it on line I'm sure.Or I would gladly mail it to you. No strings attached.Thank you for your candidness.
This has been flagged as spam show
All have sinned and greatly offended the holy God of the bible. The just punishment is death then hell. That's not Gods will. He suffered and died on the cross paying for the law you broke in His life's blood so He could legally dismiss your case. You must repent turn from your sin and trust alone in Jesus Christ for your salvation.
mamainmancj 1 month ago
God bless you for this video Greg. I use to attend Harvest when I was a new Christian many years ago in Riverside, CA. That was some 29 years ago. I'm still living for our Lord in PA.
Dextersadventures 2 months ago
Two problems. HarvestTV do not allow comments. This is because such preachers don't wish to be questioned. Secondly, he begins with discussing a personal relationship and then broadcasts in public. Personal means personal. Finally, to speak from ones mouth does not mean preaching or evangelising. It means to speak out of grace, or speak words that are a reflection of who Jesus was, that of love, or to speak words of love. I have major issues with Lauries understanding.
MrBiblicalscholar 9 months ago
"But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name," -John 1:12 We receive Jesus by praying to Him. If you repent and put your trust in Jesus as Savior and Lord, He will save you by His grace. We are saved by grace alone, not by works(Ephesians 2:8-9).
James5877 1 year ago
Greg Laurie teaches that one can be saved outside of Christ.
perryp2007 1 year ago
This dude is without any doubt sick and deluded. Everything he says comes from his imagination and wishful thinking. In fact, his thinking is soooo foggy all he can do is spew forth cliché after cliché....no critical thinking here, move on everyone.
smackcheeks 1 year ago
@smackcheeks So you looking for critical thinking. Have you examined the Bible for yourself? Do you realize that many of the most intelligent people that have ever lived have examined the Bible and found that it is true? Do you realize that the Bible contains information that only God could know? Do you realize that the Bible contains scientific information long before scientists discovered what is written there? Do you realize that archeology confirms the Bible and has never contradicted it?
romansten9 1 year ago
Lordship Salvation is the biggest Cult in America. Greg Laurie, Ray Comfort and John Macarthur are all false prophets sending millions to Hell with their false Gospel.
onlineministries 1 year ago
... I just wonder why he is wearing those party contact lenses ...
Tatooineprincess 1 year ago
No theological training whatsoever. Not even an earned baccalaurate.
I wouldn't allow this guy into my church to mop floors.
BenAliGtor 1 year ago
Asking Jesus in to ur heart in not in the Bible. if it is then show me.here is a
Tina4Yhwh 1 year ago
No where in the Bible dose it say pray a paryer then Jesus will come in to ur life. It says to repent now to repent is that u come to a place in ur life that u hate ur sins that u truen from them and trust on christ for the fogivness of ur sins that means to look to christ as lord that means to give up all u have in ur life and trusting in Christ alon to save u.
Tina4Yhwh 1 year ago 2
@Tina4Yhwh Prayer is simply talking to God
Romans 10:9–10 (NKJV)
9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
raybo633 1 year ago 2
@Tina4Yhwh I understand what you are saying about saying a prayer to invite Jesus into your life. But remember that prayer is communication with God. He wants to hear what is on our hearts. He wants us to express what is in our heart to Him. The Bible does say to "confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord" It also says to "open the door of your heart" so that Jesus can have fellowship with you. What better way to express our thoughts and hearts to God than through prayer? It pleases God.
romansten9 1 year ago
@Tina4Yhwh NO, the bible says to believe on Jesus Christ and you will be saved.That's all. Romans 10:9-10, Acts 16:30-31.
Duck4212 3 months ago
There are points people make that point at God's existence. There are points also people make suggesting that God doesn't exist. The points people use to make suggesting his non-existence are reasons enough to credit His existence.
Alvamations 1 year ago
@Alvamations Sorry, that's ridiculous. If I say, "No one has every seen a real unicorn, there are no photos, no one has captured one, no one has evidence for them," that does NOT give credit to the idea that they *do* exist. Do you believe in Allah, Zeus or Thor? NO??? Doesn't that give credit to the idea they DO exist?
SubconsciousGatherer 1 year ago
Now many of us would protest that we are good people. Isaiah 64:6 "We have all become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous deeds are like a polluted garment." That's the difference between God and all the other gods - their systems tell you that you might be good enough to work your way to Heaven. God leaves no doubt. You're not. And neither am I. So what are we to do?
bmc4Him 1 year ago
So we now have no excuse when it comes to God's laws and the judgement that He will one day execute upon us. Hebrews 9:27 says "And just as it is appointed for man to die once, and after that comes judgement". So we will stand before God one day and what will we say? Even if we think we've kept most of the law, James 2:10 says "For whoever keeps the whole law but fails in one point has become accountable for all of it."
bmc4Him 1 year ago
The 10 Commandments are a proof that God exists since they are His (not Allah's) laws. They were given as a covenant between Himself and His people and were written down so that we would have no excuse as to what they were. It's the same concept that would explain the difference between a verbal and written contract. A verbal contract is open to greater interpretation than a written contract.
bmc4Him 1 year ago
RT SubconsciousGatherer - as far as having never seen a universe maker, you've never "seen" the person who assembled your computer either - you just assume that he or she exists because there sitting on your desk or lap or wherever is a computer. The same principle can be applied to God with respect to His universe - or would you say that you are an athiest with respect to the maker of you computer?
bmc4Him 1 year ago
RT SubconsciousGatherer - The God who created the universe would have to be greater than His creation. And yes, I agree I merely provided for the existence of a god - which since you don't believe in any I felt was a good starting point to so that we could start from a common place - acknowledging the existance of a god
bmc4Him 1 year ago
RT SubconsciousGatherer - you pose some great questions and I will answer each in the order you posed them...First yes, I do believe this universe is so incredible that a creator is necessary. Can you name one thing humans have made from nothing? Grass for instance. Can you google the formula to make grass from nothing (and seeds don't count)?
bmc4Him 1 year ago
Not everyone believes there is such a thing as a god. How do you expect to share your particular version of a god with someone who is unconvinced about the whole concept of gods?
SubconsciousGatherer 1 year ago
@SubconsciousGatherer
A question I would have for you would be "are you looking for an answer to someone else who doesn't believe that God exists? or do you not believe that God exists?"
raybo633 1 year ago
@raybo633 I do not believe in any gods. I'm trying to understand how people justify their beliefs when there is no evidence for any gods. I want to better understand where theists are coming from. I used to believe in a god, but now see that I was unjustified in doing so. I guess you could say I'm trying to comprehend how people continue to hold the point of view I found myself happily leaving.
SubconsciousGatherer 1 year ago
There are two proofs that I can offer quickly to prove God exists. The first is creation. When you look at your screen you don't think "huh what a wonderful happenstance of events that this computer came together on its own". Yet when we look at creation we often try to do exactly that - and creation is infinitely more complex than the most advanced computer. The existence of the universe naturally implies a designer - God.
raybo633 1 year ago
@raybo633 I used to think that way, but only because I never really THOUGHT about it. Let me ask you 2 questions: Do you think a creator is required because (in your opinion) this universe is SO incredible that it MUST have a creator? Secondly, is this creator you imagine EQUAL to its creation, LESS than its creation or GREATER than its creation?
SubconsciousGatherer 1 year ago
@raybo633 As a Part 2 to my last post, let me say that you've just "proved" the existence of any and every god that anyone has imagined. ANYBODY who believes in a god, no matter its name or attributes can use your same argument to back up their invented god. Secondly, we know how computers and monitors are made because we can witness them being made. You've never seen a universe maker at work, so you can't claim its the same thing because it clearly is not.
SubconsciousGatherer 1 year ago
the second proof I can offer is your conscience. If Darwin is correct and the true pattern of survival is survival of the fittest, we would have no reason to evolve a conscience. That standard of right and wrong that we are each imbued with implies a standard giver. We often explode these standards into the big sins of course we would feel guilty if we murder, but why do we feel guilty when we lie? Thats because Gods law, the Ten Commandments, are written on our heart (Romans 2).
raybo633 1 year ago
The two proofs I can offer are 1) the physical creation and 2) the conscience of man. If we are honest we have to admit that each by its very existence points us to God.
raybo633 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@raybo633 I'm sorry, quoting the Bible does nothing in this discussion. You can't use the Bible to prove the Bible; that's circular reasoning, and it holds no water. It would be like asking a Muslim, "How do you know Allah is real?" and him saying, "Well, the Koran says blah-blah-blah." Do you see what I mean? "The Bible says so" is about as convincing as a fortune cookie.
SubconsciousGatherer 1 year ago
@raybo633 First of all, Darwin has nothing to do with what we're talking about, and secondly, you've just proved Allah exists. Your "proof" says nothing about the values of any particular god. A Muslim could argue the same thing you did. Why, if the 10 Commandments are "written on our hearts" would we need them on stone tablets? Seems a bit redundant, don't you think?
SubconsciousGatherer 1 year ago
Comment removed
SubconsciousGatherer 1 year ago
@SubconsciousGatherer: You are "trying to understand how people justify their beliefs when there is no evidence for any gods."On the other hand, I am trying to understand what is is that makes a person not believe in God. You sound as someone who still has attraction to people who believe. It's that very thing that can lead you to seek the truth.Seek out a person you respect for their belief in God and ask the questions. It seems that you are trying to understand and know.
kuhnel1989 1 year ago
@kuhnel1989 I started out as a believer in the God of the Bible, wanting to know him better. I sought him out, I asked questions, I read, I spoke with those whose beliefs I respected. This lead me to realizing that gods don't exist; they are a human invention, and it's so obvious to see. I'm completely OK with this, but now I wonder WHY people still believe in gods. If you want to tell me a god of some kind exists, then I'll politely ask you to give me some reasons for your belief. Thanks.
SubconsciousGatherer 1 year ago
@SubconsciousGatherer: I am glad to tell you about my Lord Jesus Christ.God is the one reaching out to us.Luke 16:10 says he has come to seek and to save that which was lost.Matt 11:28&29 Come unto me all who are weary and heavy laden...I will give you rest..I am gentle and humble in heart.
He will not turn you away. John 6:37The one who comes to me I will certainly not cast out.
God is there reaching out to you and by his grace through faith you are saved.Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ.
kuhnel1989 1 year ago
@kuhnel1989 Reading the Bible to an atheist is like reading a fortune cookie to someone who isn't superstitious. In other words, it's a waste of time. I've read the Bible and I'm not the least bit impressed or moved by it. Frankly it's one of the worst books I've ever read, far from what I'd call "The Good Book." There is a ton of filler, and the God character is hopelessly flawed, immoral, wicked, petty, jealous, cruel, & vindictive. I'm glad he's fake, because he's not worth worshipping.
SubconsciousGatherer 1 year ago
@SubconsciousGatherer: I gave biblical support because you asked me to give you reasons for my belief.This is not what you wanted to hear. But for Christians,God's Word is what spoke to them in the first place.Maybe you just need to open your heart to hearing God's voice.It takes a vulnerability to ask God for something.By asking God,you are telling yourself that you need him,you are not adequate,you are helpless.This is where God can whisk you off your feet.And you will never turn back again.
kuhnel1989 1 year ago
@kuhnel1989 If a Muslim gave you scriptural support from the Koran, would that be convincing for you? No. Should I be convinced by anything you quote from the Bible? No. You are suggesting I open my heart to God. What you fail to realize is that, as an atheist, I don't believe in any gods, yours included. What you are suggesting I do is equal to me suggesting you give Santa Claus a chance to prove himself to you. Open your heart to him. Can you? Of course not.
SubconsciousGatherer 1 year ago
@kuhnel1989 Who are you to tell me I'm inadequate and helpless? That may be how you see yourself, but don't project your own limitations onto me. I'm not perfect, but I'm far from the wretched soul that Christians believe themselves to be. Let's cut to the chase, friend. You are claiming a god of some kind exists. I'm asking you to give proof for this, and I'm telling you that reading some book to me is not going to prove anything. When you can back up your claim, we'll talk. Thanks.
SubconsciousGatherer 1 year ago
@SubconsciousGatherer: I don't have to back up my claims.It is Christ who backs up his claims through the lives of people who choose to give their lives to him and follow him.
I really appreciate your candidness.It is a crucial thing for Christians to allow these kinds of dialogue with people who don't believe in God.We cannot bury our heads in the sand,go to church,stay within our confines.God is living,active and central part of humanity.Some people choose to opt out.
kuhnel1989 1 year ago
@kuhnel1989 A Muslim could just as easily say, "I don't have to back up my claims, it is Allah who backs up his claims thru the lives of people who choose to give their lives to him and follow him ." Don't you see that just *saying* "Jesus has done x-y-z" in no way proves anything about whether it's true or not? You can't expect me or anyone to just take your word about something you don't have any evidence for.
SubconsciousGatherer 1 year ago
@SubconsciousGatherer (Hate this limited #of characters)Faith is in everyone's daily lives and don't realize it.You wake up everyday expecting certain things to happen because you have a certain amt of trust that they will happen.Flip on a switch and light comes on,sit on couch knowing it will hold you.You have faith that people made these things a certain way to function the way they should.You have to a belief due to experience that the maker is trustworthy.Everyone practices faith and trust.
kuhnel1989 1 year ago
@kuhnel1989 You can't tell me that your faith that a god exists is the same as my (ahem) "faith" in flipping on a light switch or sitting on a couch. Seriously? I can verify the switch and couch exist, I can experience and test them. You can't show me that your god exists in any way, shape or form. I'm sorry, but your analogy is not in the slightest bit related to what we're talking about. Using your line of reasoning you've just proved the existence of every single god every claimed.
SubconsciousGatherer 1 year ago
@SubconsciousGatherer:I will also cut to the chase.You are "completely OK' with knowing that you cannot know God as noted in your own words.I don't believe that you can explain and reason out everything.If you think about it you cannot understand and articulate things that have been proven and even things that remain to be proven.Primitive man didn't have to know and understand gravity but it existed.You are ok not to know and understand God.That is a choice.
kuhnel1989 1 year ago
@kuhnel1989 You don't seem to understand that you can't just say something exists (a god) and expect others to agree with you. If you want to claim that someone exists who is eternal & created everything & lives somewhere called heaven (etc.) then you're going to need to prove it's true by explaining just how it is you know this. 5 billion people on this planet do NOT see things the way you do, and your 2 billion fellow Christians are largely in disagreement with each other about their belief.
SubconsciousGatherer 1 year ago
@SubconsciousGatherer First I like your determination and I mean that positively.Fellow Christians that believe in the Biblical God are essentially in agreement with the doctrines that make "Christ followers" what they are.There are nonessentials that we vigorously debate.What I observe in atheists is that they believe we are physical and nothing more.The flesh and bones are all we are made of.Spiritual thinking are merely neuro and chemical reactions that take place in the brain MATTER.
kuhnel1989 1 year ago
@SubconsciousGatherer What do you say about a brain that is clinically kept alive. The tissue is viable,the blood circulation is intact,but there is something missing.The soulish element is not there,it cannot think or produce emotions.The emotions you feel,inspirations,passions are what make you and no one else is just like you.
kuhnel1989 1 year ago
@kuhnel1989 You'd have to ask a biologist & a brain surgeon about your medical related questions. I'm not an expert on such things, & I fail to see what it has to do with you proving there is a god. You're looking at the mysteries of life & you can't explain them, so you insert the idea of a god to answer the mystery...which proves nothing & only complicates things. It answers nothing. "A god did it!" is NOT an answer. Where'd this god you believe in come from?
SubconsciousGatherer 1 year ago
@SubconsciousGatherer I think you have the intelligence to see beyond this physiological example I cited.You can SEE,FEEL,etc an unresponsive/comatose person on a bed.I think what bothers committed atheists is not the fact that Christians cannot produce evidence of the existence of God but that the Christian is simply "completely OK" with not being able to give enough evidence to an atheist.
If you don't mind I would like you to watch Keith Green on youtube.Many Christians are familiar with KG
kuhnel1989 1 year ago
@kuhnel1989 What's your point about being able to "see, feel an unresponsive/comatose person"? I know Keith Green's music, I grew up hearing his stuff. I was a born again Christian from childhood to age 33 when I started to honestly seek the truth about "God." That honest search lead me to atheism. I can't prove there *aren't* any gods (just as you can't prove Santa doesn't exist). It is, however, YOUR job to prove your god exists (if you want your belief taken seriously).
SubconsciousGatherer 1 year ago
@kuhnel1989 If I told you an invisible dragon lives in your garage, yet you couldn't experience it with your 5 senses or test for it, you'd be justified in being skeptical about my claim. There's no reason for you to believe such a story. You're telling me a particular god exists, yet you have no way in the world to back it up, and you're telling ME I need to believe in it, too? Give me some evidence. Don't tell me WHAT you believe (I already know that!) Tell me WHY you believe it.
SubconsciousGatherer 1 year ago
@SubconsciousGatherer Musician,seeker of truth.He craved(for those who knew him,not strong enough word) truthand spent much of young adult life trying to search.He became a bookworm in philosophy/phers.Delved into various beliefs that only brough dissolution to his thirsty soul.He later became a Christian and was of great impact to Christians everywhere.Listen to hiw own lyrics that tell about this very story.
Song is "Your love broke through" Keith Green. won't let me post site.Youtube it.
kuhnel1989 1 year ago
@kuhnel1989 It wouldn't matter if Keith Green spent 24 hours a day going on about how great "God" is; it proves nothing. Would a Muslim musician's lyrics about Allah change your mind about Islam? Again, you're not telling me anything I haven't heard before. You're just giving me anecdotal stories that make you feel good about what you already believe, but it gives zero credence to whether or not what you believe is true.
SubconsciousGatherer 1 year ago
@SubconsciousGatherer I can't convince u on ur terms.Can you convince me that there is no God of the Bible on my terms now that I am a Christian?
The reason I cited Keith Green:he was where u r now.Maybe u would not be as frustrated dealing with someone who was once a seeker(which I seem think u r) and found Christ.What was it that convinced that person?
I sense ur frustrated with not hearing what U want on UR terms.KG died in tragic accident in his 30's sad to say.Seek out current converts.
kuhnel1989 1 year ago
@kuhnel1989 Are you saying "my terms" are different than "your tems" when it comes to evidence? Do you not realize there is a world of people who believe in all sorts of competing god concepts? Allah, Vishnu, Ganesh, Thor, Baal, Venus, etc. You and I are BOTH atheists to the hundreds of gods humanity has claimed over time. The only difference is that I go one god further than you do. You disregard all the gods that I disregard, yet you hold on to one. Why is that?
SubconsciousGatherer 1 year ago
@SubconsciousGatherer You do not hold to the definition of an atheist? One who believes there is no god. That counts me out.
kuhnel1989 1 year ago
@kuhnel1989 Yes, I do hold to the definition of an atheist. I do not believe there are any gods. That is atheism. If you believe in a god or gods, you are a "theist." If you lack belief in any gods, you are an "atheist." I am an atheist. Gnosticism is about claim to KNOW. I don't claim to KNOW whether there are gods or not, but at the same time I don't BELIEVE in any, therefore I'm an agnostic-atheist.
SubconsciousGatherer 1 year ago
@SubconsciousGatherer As you are ok that you do not hold to a belief in God or any gods I am ok that I can't give the evidence you are looking for in order to believe in the God of the Bible.But I don't discount your stubborness to find truth.I think you are more of an agnostic than an atheist but that's neither here nor there.If you want the book of Keith Green's life you can find it on line I'm sure.Or I would gladly mail it to you. No strings attached.Thank you for your candidness.
kuhnel1989 1 year ago
Comment removed
kuhnel1989 1 year ago
Jesus is my God, because He is the One who saved my life and no one can take away my faith in Him.God bless you
nhdwm731 2 years ago
thank you for putting this comment allow thing up.
greennose3 3 years ago
Excellent!!! Thank you Pastor Greg! Receive Jesus people, don't wait
jsjonez 3 years ago 8