Experimental philosophy of freedom

[amabodei]

Great video, In the first instance, he was "forced" by his concept of "value" - eg. the value of the cargo over the value of his life. In the second, he was not forced because the value of throwing his wife over equaled the value of sinking in the ship. (unless he disliked her of course) The Captain acted out of his own assesment of value. His concept of value is the framework in which he may or may not be free. But he is still ultimately free to decide whether to obbey the principals of value.

[MigDanskeren]

It's irrelevant if we here forced or not, both actions were wrong. in case (A) He destroyed his wife's property and should pay retribution when he returns home if she so insists. In case (B) he committed murder and should be punished accordingly.

Honestly, I don't understand why this would be considered a difficult philosophical question.

[renumeratedfrog]

My personal intuition that the captain wasn't forced to do anything in either cases. He chose it.

[Mike10four]

This is a poor example for “experimental philosophy of freedom.” See my channel video for a better example.

[ajdc88]

I can't take the hypotheticals seriously. The production value of this clip is too distracting.

[WYATTSHOW1]

The captain was forced in neither case, he was merely exercising his power of outcome avoidance (aka free will). In both cases he lost weight from the boat to avoid sinking, but in neither case was his hand forced. I don't see that the moral issue weighs in at all on whether he was forced in either case. He could only be forced if the boat sank anyway, and he was forced to swim!

[jivediscodan]

@WYATTSHOW1 I haven't heard of the term "outcome avoidance." What does that originate from?

[WYATTSHOW1]

@jivediscodan I don't know, I just used it to describe the sense in which we can predict possible futures, and choose which possibilities we can eliminate by our action or inaction. This sort of thinking about possible futures that can be avoided offers a form of soft free will, because we can at least avoid the futures we foresee and DON'T want, without eliminating room for 'FATE'. 'Forced' describes a situation in which all futures are equivalent, and no action can change it.

[zvorran]

i answered no to both. the question asked if the captain was forced to do an action. all actions are assumed voluntary if not there is something else that limits our actions. thus there must be something actively forcing someone to do something. gravity forces us to come back to the ground when we jump. matter forces us to not go through walls. someone could force you to do something you normally wouldnt do. many people fail to answer to question as it is, and not what they think it is.

[mrdavidn3]

when asking 'which is more valuable, a human life or cargo?' are most people 'forced' to answer 'human life'. what does 'forced' mean when choosing your own life vs. cargo? is 2+3 'forced' to be 5? when something is the right answer, it is what it is...where does force come in?

[meric2]

I answered "No" to both scenarios, since the question was whether or not he was forced, and not whether the decision was logically sound, or morally correct.

[whatUneverknew]

I would like to post my videos The Human Right 1 and 2 in response but it doesn't let me.

[Rietto]

Theres a difference between inanmate objects and a human being, that's why screwing over another human being to save yourself is considered 'wrong' and selfish while chucking a bunch of 'expensive cargo' is seen as a justifiable act.

[Rietto]

Human beings are wired for social ties and community interaction, and therefore such a betrayal of social ties for selfish gain goes against our own natures.

[rottenspectre]

it's not about right or wrong. it's about free will.

[Chrisguy42O]

I didn't see much point to this, it wasn't a matter of right or wrong its a matter of logical evolutionary choices, right and wrong dont exist.

[NathanZimmerman]

George Bush won election twice.

What on earth would lead you to believe that the average person has given ANY thought to the distinction between normativity and compulsion?

You mention a connection between these concepts being the 'only explanation'. I propose, on the contrary, that people are inclined to muddle together concepts in an unhelpful way when they've given little thought to them.

[polymath7]

George bush won election *once*.

But your point stands.

[Imm0ralMin0rity]

Whether these decisions are voluntary or not depends on if humans are bound to save themselves from life threatening situations. This is clearly not the case, since suicide is a common occurrence in human history. The captain very well could have not thrown his cargo or his wife overboard, even if it meant that he would die.

[Individualism101]

It's a valuation of risks. 'Forced' is a binary term representing decisions made (past tense) in a high risk situation. If someone points a gun at your head and orders you to do something then the situation is: 'if you do not do X then there is a high probability that you will die.'

Unless you are physically manipulated using Newtonian forces, the high risk decision is still a decision, and X is a factor in that decision.

[realogist]

The problem here is with the word "force." Forced means he has no free choice.. In either case he is not forced to do anything, he has free choice.

The 1st case is him and the cargo. Which has more value, he does so the choice is obvious. The 2nd case is him and his wife, both humans with equal value in terms of right to exist. Thus, choice is complicated by a moral issue.

Thus the word "force" becomes a confusing word to use here. It's really a matter of choice and value.

[beltrando1]

Bloody American anti-utilitarian thinking... can't we just say that in the second case it is forbidden by law?

[thegoodjohn]

People answered based on the different moral value of the chest and the wife - when they were not asked to make a moral judgement. What could be interesting for xphi is to use these kind of examples to examine when normal philosophers bring in moral valuation to non-moral areas. However, xphilosophers and their opponents seem more interested in making crude silly overstatements of their case, especially all this burning the armchair rubbish, which is damaging both to xphi and normal philosophy.

[Covey69]

My answer is the Captain and his wife takes turn outside the boat but in this day and age we're taught to believe The Captain should throw himself overboard and no The Captain did not have to throw the luggage overboard he had a choice, it was a Life/Death Choice still but it was a choice. Which is why some people believe he had No choice because we always choose life but do we choose life over someones death. Does that make that person evil not overcoming a animal drive of fight/flight.

[simplyriley]

damn -.- i said no to both questions XD

[InfectedDaemon]

I don't see how word play and a census can actually provide philosophical headway.

If your approach was to bring up the issue that many people can't solve a puzzle, then... OK.

If consistency is what you want, then we can say that in both cases he was forced, but in reality:

IN the first case he was CLEARLY forced, since if 'He' through himself over board to save the luggage it would have been pointless, hence there are no options. In the second case there are options, hence not forced.

[seNCationDrop]

What you guys fail to mention to mention is the fact that the captain's wife was half-mermaid and she hadn't seen that half in the family in, like, forever. So even though she definitely wasn't planning on seeing them until Christmas it wasn't totally a loss in the end.

[bickleschmickle]

lol

[terminaldeity]

They could have made a suicide pact...

[simonealina]

This is the best video ever!

[illidan333]

really good, please post more video

[Ignare]

Grad students still doing the grunt job...

[medeste]

it's simple: in the 1st example you assume it was really the only choice (exept for dying), in the 2nd example he could probably save his wife by throwing himself in the water... so he was not forced, he was just too sick of his wife. ;D