If only you were as upset about Fox's misrepresenting the lies of the white house that tricked us into Iraq...as you are about Joe the Plumber's license. But I guess that's no big deal to you.
im guessin everyone that dogs on olbermann watches fox news. if all you have against olbermann is that he lied about a guys licensing youre ignorant. look at that impudent child oreilly. he berates his guests, blames rape victims for their own murder, an when he cant make a point out of that muddled pile of shit that seeps forth from his mouth he silences them. clean up your own backyard before you start shitting in others. dont get me wrong i dont like any news stations anymore.
@somepplskids 1st your first supposition is WRONG. I have watched msnbc for years as well as Fox to compare. Next you are WRONG AGAIN - this is not the only incident I document of Overblownman's deceit. Your sophomoric, opinion of O'reilly, and your admission that you don't like (nor watch, I'm guessing) any news anymore, only proves you are another inexperienced sheep being led to slaughter by the popular propaganda system. Good luck with that...
@marklross2 All one needed to do is look to your first "premise." Liar because of shit for brains joe's not having a license. Olbermann did not state it was a fact that he was required to have a license, but rather the fact that he does not have a licesnse. You fucking tea baggers, and I could see the scrodum on you face, love is the truth, but you hate facts.
@marklross2 "I win-you lose?" What school girl? Are you in 6th grade?" Should have spelled it scrodumb. How about addressing the fact in the premise. He does not have a license. A fact. Another fact, and since I am the devil and you want me behind you, I will put it in softly: Obama's plan did nothing but improve the bat shit's ability to obtain his magic dingdongship. His taxes went down, or at least stayed the same. Either he does it, or he's the dick in the home depot line.
@MrEatonbeaver Fact: Disgraced propagandist Keith Overblownman is GONE! Why don't you address that? ha ha ha ha ha ha ha Fact: Joe was covered under the license of the owner of the company that employed him. Fact: You are an idiot.
This is the best that you can do to discredit Olbermann? Pathetic! Do a search for any fox news jackass plus the word "lies" and you will see numerous better examples. I would also be interested in finding out where you get your "facts."
@TheOmegadusk I didn't discredit overblownman - I disproved him and revealed his ignorance of law. I found the law in the Ohio state penal codes.The only "jackass" here is you...
@marklross2 Dude, you are a complete idiot. Really way to say nothing of substance in your response. Your video, at best, highlights an instance where Olbermann failed to give fully accurate information. O'Reilly, Beck, Hannity, Limbaugh, and a legion of others tell bold faced lies just about every single day- and there is a slew of video evidence of this. It appears that you are not nearly as critical of them.
@TheOmegadusk You moron - " an instance where Olbermann failed to give fully accurate information?" He does that every fucking night! Your opinion of O'reilly et al...hmmmmmm "I can only imagine why...."
@marklross2 Really? Every fucking night you say? Then shouldn't your channel be JAMMED packed with vids showing Olbermann's distinct lack of honesty? Those I previously mentioned have legions of vids showing their dishonesty- where are the equivilants for MSNBC? I looked for them and I found very very few, and almost zero of any merit.
Again, there is no substance in your rebuttal. Are you having trouble defending your position?
@TheOmegadusk There's only so many hours in the day pal...I can't keep up with his endless propaganda. You don't see as many examples from conservatives about MSNBC and the like because there are just too many incidents to keep up with, and most conservatives have jobs that keep them busy....
@marklross2 For such a hard working man, you are an absolute master of the no-substance cop-out retort. They are not there because it doesn't happen as rapidly as on Fox- not by a long shot.
You must be insinuating that I do not have a job to keep me busy? Very cute. Conservatives love to tout themselves as the only people that work in this country. You and yours live in a fantasy world.
@TheOmegadusk Ha! Fantasy world...that's rich - problem is - that's your address pal....You are the one that believes Overblownman and other lefty media blowholes don't lie. Now THAT'S fantasy! You can just keep posting, and I will just keep responding. I have one advantage - I'm right....
@marklross2 A continuation of your fantasy. Allow me to help. Being a right wing extremist is not at all the same thing as being correct. I did not say that liberals don't lie- I said that they don't lie enough to have a mass of videos about them lying. Fox news definitely does.
I appreciate your continued vigilance. It is creating a litany of your ignorance. If you are so certain of your position, prove me wrong. Or you could go on like a stupid windbag like your heroes at Fox. :)
@TheOmegadusk Your mischaracterization of me as an "extremist" is only further proof of how out of touch with reality you are. It is no wonder you think Overblown man is no more biased than any Foxnews opinion personality. The proof you ask for is on MSNBC. Just turn on, tune in, and voi la!
@marklross2 Oh excuse me sir! Let's do a checklist to figure out your position. Against rights for homosexuals? Think blacks and muslims are dangerously different? Think christianity is being discriminated against? Think abortion is objectionable regardless of circumstance? Think Beck's tears are real?
@TheOmegadusk You wouldn't accept my answers as truthful anyway, so why should I bother? If I say I am not against gay rights, you'll just shout "liar! homophobe!" That's how you leftys work....
@marklross2 Well you appear to have some misconceptions of people more liberal than you. I actually really like hearing a conservative voice disagree with the mainstream conservatives. Seriously, tell me your views of these things and I'll try to take you at face value.
Say, "Gay's should have all of the rights of a US citizen, including marriage," or, "Glenn Beck was obviously faking when he cried on TV," or "people who think abortion is never viable have never spoken to a rape victim."
@TheOmegadusk Gay's should have all of the rights of a US citizen, but marriage is not a right, it is a licensed privilege. That being said, gays should not be denied same sex marriage licenses. I don't care if Glenn Beck cried. I think late term and partial birth abortion is gruesome. Finally - none of this has anything to do with the fact that Keith Overblownman misrepresented the facts about the trade of plumbing an its licensing...
@marklross2 Agreed, these things have nothing to do with each other. However, it is good to hear that you do not agree with everything that the Fox simpletons profess. Our differences on these topics have only to do with how strongly we feel about them. I would have to say that Beck's fake crying does indicate a strong lack of honesty (and acting skills). I also agree that partial birth abortions should not be legal in most- not all- cases.
@TheOmegadusk Number on times Fox opinion shows have guests who oppose the viewpoint of the host - I have lost count. Number of times Keith Overblown man has had a guest on Countdown who has conflicting viewpoint - ZERO...If you are a dyed in the wool Fox news conspiracy theorist, you will of course deny and ignore the obvious. You may now resume being a tool...
@marklross2 Thought you were done Mark? What is the point of bringing on people of differing opinions if you are just going to cut them off, yell over them, and otherwise disallow them from imparting their differing opinions.
I can't speak for Olbermann but Maddow, Mathews, and O'Donnell have guests of differing opinions on all the time. And they respectfully allow their guests to say their peace even if it's absurd and objectionable. Fox could take a chapter out of their book.
@marklross2 Indeed it is, but the conversation has expanded to include Fox news. I don't always catch Olbermann but I can admit that I have never seen a guest on there with a differing opinion. You used Fox as an example, so defend your point.
@TheOmegadusk Even though O'reilly is a blowhard, he entertains opposing viewpoints. Even though he is a conservative, Sean Hannity ALWAYS has at least one liberal in his daily panel discussion. Fox maybe obviously right leaning, but they broadcast more of BOTH sides of the issues than MSNBC ever does. The pointr is - Keith Overblownman is too much of a pussy to ever actually confront anyone with an opposing opinion...
@marklross2 I hate to say this, but I get the distinct idea that you have never watched MSNBC. You sound like a dyed in the wool MSNBC conspiracy theorist. O'Reilly and Hannity are always cutting people off and shouting over them. The few times that they invited someone on who was competent (no Colmes doesn't count) they just railroaded the conversation. Watch either of them with Richard Dawkins or O'Reilly with Jon Stewart or Steven Colbert. They edited them to save face.
@TheOmegadusk Wrong...I watched Countdown religiously for about a year before I realized Overblownman was ever going to engage in actual debate. You have seen only the few examples of O'Reilly and Hannity that competitors use to discredit them. Many times they allow uninterrupted discourse. Besides, I'd rather hear a shouting argument than Overblownman haranguing on one of his one-sided tirades - seriously...
@marklross2 Untrue, I have seen at least 30 full episodes each. You should give Maddow a chance, she's pretty much my favorite pundit. Honest and polite- wave of the future I hope!
@marklross2 Pundits are obviously bias- no matter the channel. I like her because she's honest about it. O'Reilly claims that there's no spin on his show- which is a lie. She's upfront about it and I find her refreshing.
@TheOmegadusk More evidence you have either not watched, or just don't pay attention. O'reilly regularly admits he is opinionated. By "no spin" he refers to the fact that his show ALWAYS features views from BOTH sides of the issue (rarely if ever is that the case with Maddow) and that HE won't allow guests to "spin" their comments...
@marklross2 Now you have officially moved into the realm of talking out of your ass. If by both sides you mean he brings on a weak liberal (like Hannity used to with Colmes) and badgers them or puts words in their mouths, then I guess that's true. I have never once saw O'Reilly debate someone of differing opinion without resorting to bullying and flat out being disingenuous.
I can easily give you examples if you would like. I can also give examples of Maddow entertaining conservative ideas.
@TheOmegadusk More evidence your ass is talking. I have already admitted that there are a FEW examples of O'reilly shouting that are used to disparage the entire Fox network. Look - I'm done arguing with a brainwashed true believer like you. I am content with the knowledge that I watched both Overblownman and Madcow long enough to determine how worthlessly one sided their shows are, and have seen BOTH SIDES of the issues on Fox. Again I say - I'd rather hear shouting arguments than just one side
@marklross2 Whatever you deluded twit. Sure I am the brainwashed one. What a fucking joke! People like you will always live in a fantasy land over your precious foreign-funded Faux News asshats. You enjoy your made up news now, and don't let the real world interfere with your point of view! Reality would be tragic! I should have known this was a waste of time.
@TheOmegadusk Thank you for the waste of time. Of course nothing you said disproved the point i made that Overblownman made a mountain out of a molehill when it came to "Joe the Plumber's" unlicensed status because many states allow unlicensed contractors to work their trade under the umbrella of their licensed employer. So, call me deluded or whatever will make you think you accomplished something here, when in fact - you haven't...
@marklross2 Asshat, it is plain to see that I accomplished nothing in this exchange and I am willing to admit it. Admittance: something that you and your ilk are incapable of.
@linuxmadman Will Rogers indeed! What was I thinking. I appreciate your frank and respectful comments. Subtlety is not my aim in many of my videos because I know that the sycophantic audiences of Stewart and Olbermann are brainwashed. I can only offer to you that if you think Stewart is classy - you must be among those ranks...
@linuxmadman jon Steart is a hack comedian without the class to know when enough is enough. He is nowhere near the savvy and talent of a real satirist like Twain, or Will Roberts.
@linuxmadman Except that Ølbermann implies with his douchey smugness that there is something suspect about Joe because he doesn't have a license and Keith's sycophantic audience who don't think for themselves need to know the truth...thanks for the compliment though.....
Whoa! very nice, you're um.. so black and white. A little off topic here but I'll add but since it's on my mind and being a PA resident.. that Olbermann and Alren Specter have something very much in common, they are both shameless opportunist.
Olbermann deep down inside is a very hateful man, who if given the opportunity, would do some things that really would enlighten people on how stupid this man really is.
Did you happen to see the hit job that Rick Sanchez (CNN) did on Joe about a month after this? It was as low brow as Olbermann.
It's amazingly predictable how liberals react to any conservative message that gets traction. What you immediately see - is the attack/marginalize the messenger strategy .... and very little substance to their challenges of the actual message. It seems so obvious & dishonest to me, but the MSM helps to propagate it.
@klrdotorg Right out of "Rules for Radials" - you called it! they always immediately resort to "attack/marginalize the messenger strategy ." Thanks for the feedback!
Great point Palin4ViceP. Olbermann only attracts other stupid assholes who don't look at ALL the facts before they speak. How else could you explain the fact that his show has pulled very low ratings for years.
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
haha video only got 3 stars lol, and only 700 views even though its been out a year, very weak. haha my friend posted a video of him dancing on the campus of wash u to chris browns, "forever" , 20,000 views the first week. lol very weak video
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
this is so fucking dumb. fuck ur black and white bullshit, olbermanns the fucking man, ur an idiot. if u think olbermann "lies" watch fox news for three seconds u retard
KO said that joe has no plumbing license he did not say that joe wasn't a plumber in fact he called him "joe the plumber"
KO did't say it would be impossible for joe to buy the business because he only made 40k he said it would be difficult
obama said his tax plan would only raise taxes on people making over 250k a year so unless joe started making 250k a year he would not be put in the higher tax bracket which means that mccain brought him up because he would be obove the 250k line
Wow so this is the best you can come up on olbermann being a lying manipulative two faced reporter, because i gotta say you don't make much of a point, and oh yeah i think what keith was saying all though i can't say for sure is that mccains point was obama was going to raise taxes for the average american when that isn't true, but then again i guess you didn't watch the clip in it's entirety or just cut it to make ur self look smart either way your that thats being manipulative on that point
you are completely wrong. ko was not making a point about mccain at al;l - didn't you get that? all he does is attack a person for opposing his idol - obama - you fail
As for comparing KO to any of the useless Fox Noise (makers)... not even a contest.
While it is true that KO is not a journalist... neither are any of the clowns over at Fox... at least KO admits he isn't.
He also has a tendency to admit when he is wrong abut something... I have yet to see or hear of any the kids over at the Propaganda channel ever admit to being wrong about much, if ever.
Slowly Fox is drowning in its own vile, lies, and distortions... I for one won't miss them!
ah yes and that is why they have million dollar ad campaigns calling themselves "fair and balanced" catch that one FAIR AND FUCKING BALANCED when there in fact as far away from that as humanly possible
Do you really believe that Joe "The Used by the right-wing tool of a Fake" Plumber has the brain capacity to run a business? He does not even own the ability to realize the right-wing has used him.
As for your lame-ass video and the use of black and white distortions to protect your identity. Pathetic.
NiteSho is correct...Olbermann is a political commentator and sometimes interviewer not a journalist. If you can't tell the difference... then you are as worthless as Joe!
If people like Olbermann had their way, a lot of folks who don't think or believe what he does would be dead or in a gulag. One has only to consider the Left's body count globally during the 20th century; recall how they used rhetoric to marginalize and dehumanize their opposition; and then give Olberman another listen. He represents a dark, dishonest and unpleasant future, indeed.
Keith Olbermann is a political commentator. That you support the Faux News mindset shows you will never understand the wit of him and Rachel Maddow.Unlike the many Faux News people, he can cite FACTS....not make up information
First, you call KO a commentator. Then say he cites facts...he is only a commentator, not a journalist because he does not cite faacts. He exaggerates, and bends the truth. There is no wit. Only Keith and Rachel complaining, then invitibg guests on to agree with them. Wow - what a format! Scintillating!
"You can't even take a person at his word" this video states. Hhhhmmm Joe the Plumber said he was a plumber. He in fact is a plumber's helper. He said he wanted to buy the business he was working at ... he has no money. He actually owes back taxes. He makes no where near $250K, owes back taxes, is not a plumber but a plumber's helper.
Why can't we just take this moron at his word ... hhhhmmm ... because he lied. But I am glad he's the neo-con's hero!
moron - if you called someone to unclog your toilet, and he did, then he left, would you say the plumber had been by? Would you demand to see his certification before you called him a plumber? Ha! Back taxes?!! So the fuck what?!! Obama's man at tthe treasury had back taxes!! Bah wa ha hahaha! you're a mindless lefty who can't see how used by the media government complex you are. No free thought! Ask Obama a question, and be ATTACKED by the mindless sheep...baaahhh baaahhh baahhh...
Yes, mindless talking point sheep. McCain and Palin and Joe the Plumber. You summed it up. You do not know me, how dare you call someone a moron to whom you know nothing about.
Joe the Plumber is clearly a perfect face for this neo-con party. I loved it when Samuel (real name) was reporting from Israel about how reporters should not be reporting in the middle east, classic hypocrisy.
Putz? You sir, speak more of yourself when you use such words than anything your vile mouth has to say.
i love your put on airs and artificial indignation. it's comical. moron? well what you say is self evidently moronic in nature. the label is suited to you.
Yes one who shall put labels on others for whom they are unfamiliar with, truly wears the ugliest label of all. Ignorance comes from the lack of knowledge on a subject, stupidity is to open ones mouth anyway.
Oh Waiter, I am done with this carcus, check please.
That's right - try to convince yourself of some superiority by simply declaring yourself the victor of nothing - pathetic - you have never successfully addressed or refuted the assertion of my vid. But if it makes you feel good, go ahead, pretend...if it feels good do it - right?
You miss the more important aspect. Why did the media feel it necessary to attack some run of the mill guy for asking a question? Because propagandists like Keith Olbermann have absolute allegiance to Obama, and serve as his ministers of misinformation. If you deny that - you are part of the brainwashed masses...
I would agree with the assertion that there are left wing commentators and right wing commentators.
I think there is no debate on that to be sure. However, I get my news from all types of media and can filter out who is propagating their "opinion".
What I find is that like him or not, Olbermann simply reads back comments from the like's of O'Reilly, Hannity, and he is factually correct in most assessments.
Is he left, no doubt. I am not. I agree with his assessments when they are factual.
I apologize, perhaps not clear in my previous comment. "I get my news from all types of media and can filter out who is propagting their opinion", that includes Olbermann.
1) Keith does have facts, ironically that is a fact. Has he been wrong ... I've seen him out himself as the worst person in the world.
2) I get my facts from comparing credible news sources & research. I can spot when a left or right wing commentator is wrong.
The Joe the Plumber issue is about OBAMA'S ANSWER . It doesn't matter if he was Joe the Republican spy or Joe the Obama hating racist bigot fox news working campaign wrecking liar.
If anyone earns over $250,000 in any job (except Treasury Secretary of course) they'll have to pay more taxes in order to "spread the wealth" and give it to someone who doesn't earn it.
Anyhow ASSHOLES you GOTTA know that you LOST for a REASON - and the PATHETIC AND LAUGHABLE thing is you guys THINK that THE REASON you lost is the SOLUTION to winning again in the future!
I'll spell it out for you 72% of Americans ARE DISGUSTED with loopy fringe right wing lunacy - and you guys think that if you give the American people MORE of that it will spell SUCCESS in the future!
What I HOPE is that the BLUDGEONING you took in Novemeber is NOTHING like the one you will get in 2010!
God - the anger - it's palpable.... you consider yourself "tolerant?" Since you seem to focus upon what it is to be a plumber. I'll address that. You, like all collectivist intellectual bureaucrats have put too much thought into "plumber." If my toilet gets clogged I call a "plumber." The "plumber" who may be a high school student working part time for his uncle, the licensed plumber, unplugs the toilet. I thank the "plumber" for having done "plumbing." Joe was a plumber.
Joe was a plumber APPRENTICE - nowhere near the professional or financial level of someone about ready to buy a plumbers business - HENCE Olbermann had it right.
I'M an electrician for the local commuter railroad - who once worked as an APPRENTICE for residential wiring UNDER a licensed electrician.
It MIGHT be plausible, but I can't recall ANYONE that owned an electrician business who WASN'T A LICENSED ELECTRICIAN THEMSELF.
And YOU'RE DAMN RIGHT I'M ANGRY - you "conservatives" are a BUNCH OF RETARDS WHO ARE STUPID AND WRONG ABOUT DAMN NEAR EVERYTHING - you people are the EQUIVALENT of concrete shoes on our nation's feet and balls and chains on our ankles - GO EDUCATE YOURSELF AND QUIT HOLDING BACK THE PROGRESS OF OUR ONCE GREAT NATION.
And you know what the difference between you and me is - I use common sense and think for myself - and HAPPEN to agree with people like Olbermann - YOU ON THE OTHER HAND don't have a SINGLE ORIGINAL THOUGHT rattling around in that so-called brain of yours - EVERYTHING you think you know or have learned you have gotten from RIGHT WING PROPAGANDA - and that makes you more of a MORONIC SHEEP THAN A PERSON.
CORRECT shithead! You can work UNDER someone else license IF that person that you are working for inspects and signs off on your work BUT that does not make JOE THE DICKHEAD a plumber - it makes him an APPRENTICE that is NOWHERE NEAR being a plumber himself, owner of a plumping business OR able to sign off on ANYONES work. Joe the APPRENTICE - got that SCUMBAG?
Don't worry Joe, he's either going to allow the Bush tax reductions to be nulled out in 2010 or he's going to repeal them so that way as he basically has ALWAYS promised despite certain ignoring logical conclusion to raise EVERYONE'S TAXES.
But that won't kill us, nope we are about to die from hyperinflation. Joe your plunger is going to be worth 2 million dollars. Then you'll be able to buy 2 gallons of milk! Oh yay! Joy Glory Rapture!
RedPandaBoy, you need to understand that the very manner in which KO speaks implies Right-Wing/Conservative corruption and manipulation. As you well know RedPanda most communication comes in the form of non-verbal cues. His body language tells me that what he says is the real truth, a capital "T" truth if you will. If he is going to hold other people to such a standard then he should be on par with that standard. Unfortunately for KO he can in no way measure up to his standards of others.
5 stars man. Olbermann is truly a radical and for some reason MSNBC gives him a national platform to shout nothing more than FOX News hate speech and twisted truths about Conservatives. I deeply feel your pain about Sunday night football, he almost ruins my viewing experience, forcing my mind to think of his mindless drivel.
The use of the "negative" picture instead of color was great. It allowed me to listen to your words, not focus on you. You sound sincere and truthful, because it is true.
Oh.. another point.. if Joe start to make 250 thousand dollars a year... then literally he would be rich.
Obama's tax plan only tax the rich. Joe would not qualified unless.. he's rich.
If Joe saves up 250 thousand dollars, that would be none taxable, because that would be his savings, not yearly wages. If he ever start to make enough to be tax, then Joe has it made.
exactly, why would anyone making 160,000 a year, AFTER TAXES, feel like complaining that they'd have to pay another 1,000 in taxes? oh no, 66 dollars an hour, 159,000 a year, isnt enough to live on? thats called greed
I don't think it can be called greed... the maker of this video doesn't make that much, so he's not in the loop.
I think it's republican misdirection. The maker wants us to ignore that Obama will only tax the 'rich'. Then put Average Joe in the picture, who clearly isn't rich.
Then want to call Keith a liar, for pointing out McCain's contradiction that Obama tax plan has nothing to do with Joe.
He wants to make up things and say "Maybe Joe wants this" ... ignoring the evidence present.
You know.. you cut right between McCain's statement when he claimed that Joe wouldn't be able to employ people if Obama increase his taxes.
That one bit would have made Olbermann's statement valid.. Because McCain claimed that someone making 250 dollars in personal gain (which is difference from the business expensive..you employ people with the business money, not your personal profit) can't afford hiring people..
eh... you didn't discover any lies.. in fact you made errors... Obama's tax plan will only tax him if a quarter of a million dollars. Even if Joe buys the business, he won't recieve a tax increase..
The premise you set up are all wrong.. it was already stated.. It's about "obama's" tax plan and how Obama's tax plan will taxes him.. but the line is.. YOU HAVE TO BE MAKING A QUARTER OF A MILLION DOLLARS! So.. McCain was lying..
OK, generally. The premise is based on Obama's plan. Obama's tax plan will only tax people making one quarter of a million dollars. Joe doesn't make that much money. The company he 'dreams' of buying doesn't make that much money. No tax increase.
McCain was wrong, Keith understanding of the situation was right. Olbermann did not lie.
No, Keith was wrong when he tried to imply that not having a license invalidated Joe's question to Øbama. The point Joe is trying to make is that Øbama's tax plan DIScourages people like Joe to strive to prosper when doing so just rewards your hard work with a higher tax...By saying Joe won't have to worry, because as long as he is earning BELOW the Øbama's threshold amount, his tax doesn't go up exactly how Øbama's plan KEEPS people like Joe in a lower economic class. Olbermann lies...
Olbermann stated that joe was an unlicensed plumber and took the question at face value. McCain stated in the debate that Obama would be 'TAXING' Joe.
The 'discourage' part you created on your own.. Though i don't think that make sense... Even if you'll face higher taxes, you still have half a million dollars, which is better than making 10 thousand.
It's like saying you won't buy the better TV because of sale tax.. which no one really follow.
correction, a quarter of a million dollars. I stated half a million. In truth, it's a quarter million.
No offense, but it looks like you're trying to paint Olbermann as Bias... with your own bias. If there is proof Olbermann lies (which is different from having a bias) or show favor to one party than the other.. I'll listen.
But so far, there's no proof. So far he call out on republican corruption and lies.. because they're doing it the most..
I'm sure I can't convince a true believer like you that when KO says McCain thinks a middle class plumber is "earning 250" that he is lying. Or at least employing distortion. McCain did not assume Joe was earning 250, he said he "worked 10-1`2 hrs. a day" and was saving up to buy the biz...Your comparison of higher income tax to sales tax is specious. One can choose what to pay sales tax on. One doesn't get to choose how one's income tax is spent..
You want quote McCain. To finish your quote, "He wanted to buy the business, and he saw he was going to pay higher taxes. You were going to put him in a much higher tax bracket." McCain was _wrong_, because Joe would not have been taxed unless he made a quarter million dollars in personal income.
For my example on the TV, you do realize it was base on your argument that taxes DIScourages people from striving to prosperity. Prosperity is like the TV. If you want it, taxes don't matter
It's amazing you skipped the substance of the argument. Keith Olbermann said the follower
"Senator McCain entire premise in raising Joe the Plumber was based on the idea that an average joe could be earning 250 thousand dollars and that could qualify as struggling and in dire need for tax relief"
The piece you need to get to understand that statement.. Joe thinks he's going to be taxed by Obama's plan. That's the premise.. and Keith only spelled it out with details
Keith's statement is inaccurate. McCain's premise is that an average Joe through a lifetime of 10-12 hour days, just might get to a point where he could afford to buy the biz, and BEGIN making a higher income. But in doing so, he will pay more in an income tax that he does not have control as to how that tax is spent. It is not the same as making a decision to pay sales tax on a luxury item..
If you go back to McCain.. let me continue the quote.
"...higher tax bracket. Which is going to increase his taxes, _which is going to cause him not to employ people_ which Joe is trying to realize the American dream"
Are you trying to imply that someone making 250 K can't afford to pay high taxes, like McCain did? And let's not forget... the business Joe would like to buy.. DOESN'T MAKE 250 THOUSAND DOLLARS.
Personal income is what a business owner has to use to reinvest in his biz. So, to say Joe made 250k thiis year - he's rich - ignores the fact that Joe must decide whether that 250k can be truly kept all for himself, or if MOST of it MUST be reinvested to KEEP the biz in biz. Not to mention living expenses which are not tax write offs. The biz isn't making 250? Ever heard of GROWING a biz? (Of couse that takes reinvestment of your own income).
If joe's company makes 250k in a year and he reinvests half of that money, the money he uses won't be taxed and only the profit the owner keep would be taxed.
So if joe gets really lucky and makes 1 million dollars, and reinvest 800k of it back into the business, his 200k he keeps won't be taxed.
Obama's tax plan is a bit more detailed.. maybe you should read it first.
The last I checked, personal income gets taxed first - then it can be reinvested into a biz. The reinvestment is a capital expense, not a business expense and is neither written off or tax credited. You make 250k, you get taxed on 250k. THEN with what you have left of your income, if you so choose, you can make a capital investment.
OK - this has gone too far - Under Øbama's tax plan, Joe gets put into a higher tax bracket if he starts to earn more than 250k. Øbama is not going to REDUCE the income tax RATE on the middle class. He is going to issue a blanket tax credit for those with incomes less than 250k. Problem is, there are countless people who will qualify for that tax credit WHO DON'T PAY INCOME TAX normally. Those people are not receiving a credit on the tax they paid. The check they get is welfare.
If Øbama would just come out and say, "I want to get welfare going back at the rate it was going before congress pushed through welfare reform." Then maybe I'd vote for him. I have nothing against helping other people....
The issue was based on Joe.. but if you want to spread it to other things.. ok...
If Joe makes over 250K in net profit, that 250 will be taxed, which would have nothing to do with the running of the business.
For everything else you said, i'm currently not so sure, but you know that i don't consider you credible. Income tax are forced on us.. to get a refund, you need to pay some from of tax.
But I don't see anything in obama's plan that support what you claim.
Details of tax-credit debate can get lost in the slogans
By Michael Kranish
Globe Staff / October 22, 2008
William Beach, director of the conservative Heritage Foundation's Center for Data Analysis, said that he wouldn't characterize Obama's tax plan as "socialist," calling it a "redistribution of income." But he noted that neither candidate wants to end the progressive tax system under which wealthier people have higher tax rates.
McCain has also complained that Obama wants to give tax cuts to people who pay no income taxes by providing refundable tax credits. McCain is correct that Obama wants to greatly expand the use of such credits. For example, Obama has proposed offsetting the Social Security tax on the first $8,100 of income with a maximum tax credit of $500 for some workers.
Obama also has proposed tax credits for education and expanding an existing credit for lower-income workers. The McCain campaign calls such credits "welfare" because it could mean the government sends checks to people who owe no income taxes.
Obama Tax Plan Aimed To Help Homeowners and Seniors: Who Else?
by Gerald Prante
Obama's tax plan began with a "Making Work Pay" credit that would offset payroll taxes on the first $8,100 of earnings, generating up to $500 per person or $1,000 per family. The campaign said that would eliminate income taxes for 10 million low-income Americans.
There is really no need for a new credit for low-income people.
If Obama wants to accomplish the end he is aiming for, then the "Making Work Pay" credit could just be coupled with reforming/expanding the Earned Income Tax Credit and an expansion of the standard deduction rather than having some new credit designed to lower income taxes on low-income earners.
Or he could move in the direction of the Tax Reform Panel and make a uniform Family Credit to replace the standard deduction, personal exemptions, and the child tax credit, and a uniform Work Credit to replace the complex EITC.
At least you using Obama's plan... or direct me to a source that critizes it. There seems to be a possiblity for a form of welfare according to the article. But you stated that it 'will'.
But you established the posibility. Now we're off that. Would there really be a problem with Joe if he bought his business? according to Obama and out outside sources, no.
Yes - the problem is that the arbitrary threshold Joe crosses does not accurately reflect Joe's actual living situation and true monetary worth. So, he gets bumped up to the next level that he may not really be able to afford. The Peter Principle applied to taxes: Joe gets moved up to his next higher level of economic inefficiency...
and we go back straight into the same circle. according to obama's plan, it'll only take in the profit that he makes as an individual. The 250K he makes would be the money he keeps
If he needs to use 228K for his business, what left would be considered for taxation.
I'm not going to explain the business cycle to you. But here goes. One more time. When he reports 250k as income, that is after he has declared all his biz expenses etcetera, and he gets taxed on that income. Boom - NOW after having paid that tax, if he wants to make a 228k capital investment in his biz, he does so after already having been taxed on his FULL income. That's what being a biz owner is all about. In the NEXT biz cycle he may be able to claim some depreciation on that capital, but
that's it. ?Until the next cycle, whatever he has left after reinvesting in his biz, will just have to do...none of this has anything to do with the point of my vid. That being that KO is attacking this guy just like all the amateur bloggers did, because he poses a threat to Øbama,,,Unless you want to defend KO's ad hominem approach to this argument - this thread is frayed...
actually Olbermann wasn't attacking Joe the plumber.. He was attacking John McCain.. because currently the Business Joe would like to buy won't be taxed under Obama's plan.
If the business made 250 and more.. yeah. But simple fact... it doesn't. McCain's argument does not exist.. according to fact check and other non partisan groups. Joe would benefit more from Obama's plan..
To say KO was not attacking Joe just reveals how much of a true believer you are. If you cannot at least acknowledge that character assassination that KO does is to call into question Joe and not his question, I will not be able to persuade yu, and will not want to waste my time...
If only you were as upset about Fox's misrepresenting the lies of the white house that tricked us into Iraq...as you are about Joe the Plumber's license. But I guess that's no big deal to you.
chixsngr 10 months ago
@chixsngr Just because you felt tricked doesn't make it fact.....
marklross2 10 months ago
queef olbermann: the real life Ted Baxter.
Substantive64 1 year ago
im guessin everyone that dogs on olbermann watches fox news. if all you have against olbermann is that he lied about a guys licensing youre ignorant. look at that impudent child oreilly. he berates his guests, blames rape victims for their own murder, an when he cant make a point out of that muddled pile of shit that seeps forth from his mouth he silences them. clean up your own backyard before you start shitting in others. dont get me wrong i dont like any news stations anymore.
somepplskids 1 year ago
@somepplskids 1st your first supposition is WRONG. I have watched msnbc for years as well as Fox to compare. Next you are WRONG AGAIN - this is not the only incident I document of Overblownman's deceit. Your sophomoric, opinion of O'reilly, and your admission that you don't like (nor watch, I'm guessing) any news anymore, only proves you are another inexperienced sheep being led to slaughter by the popular propaganda system. Good luck with that...
marklross2 1 year ago 4
@marklross2 All one needed to do is look to your first "premise." Liar because of shit for brains joe's not having a license. Olbermann did not state it was a fact that he was required to have a license, but rather the fact that he does not have a licesnse. You fucking tea baggers, and I could see the scrodum on you face, love is the truth, but you hate facts.
walkermydawg 10 months ago
@walkermydawg Idiot - did you misspell scrotum on purpose? The point is Keith Olbermann is GONE! ha ha ha ha ha!!! I win - you lose!
marklross2 10 months ago
@marklross2 "I win-you lose?" What school girl? Are you in 6th grade?" Should have spelled it scrodumb. How about addressing the fact in the premise. He does not have a license. A fact. Another fact, and since I am the devil and you want me behind you, I will put it in softly: Obama's plan did nothing but improve the bat shit's ability to obtain his magic dingdongship. His taxes went down, or at least stayed the same. Either he does it, or he's the dick in the home depot line.
MrEatonbeaver 10 months ago
@MrEatonbeaver Fact: Disgraced propagandist Keith Overblownman is GONE! Why don't you address that? ha ha ha ha ha ha ha Fact: Joe was covered under the license of the owner of the company that employed him. Fact: You are an idiot.
marklross2 10 months ago
@somepplskids well you're guessing wrong and that's no guess
8thEastTexasBlues 11 months ago
what is this music?
ScrapGoldBass 1 year ago
@ScrapGoldBass The song is "Black Heart" from the album of the same name by Calexico...
marklross2 1 year ago
@marklross2 thanks!
ScrapGoldBass 1 year ago
This is the best that you can do to discredit Olbermann? Pathetic! Do a search for any fox news jackass plus the word "lies" and you will see numerous better examples. I would also be interested in finding out where you get your "facts."
TheOmegadusk 1 year ago
@TheOmegadusk I didn't discredit overblownman - I disproved him and revealed his ignorance of law. I found the law in the Ohio state penal codes.The only "jackass" here is you...
marklross2 1 year ago
@marklross2 Dude, you are a complete idiot. Really way to say nothing of substance in your response. Your video, at best, highlights an instance where Olbermann failed to give fully accurate information. O'Reilly, Beck, Hannity, Limbaugh, and a legion of others tell bold faced lies just about every single day- and there is a slew of video evidence of this. It appears that you are not nearly as critical of them.
I can only imagine why this is... Hmmmmmm.
TheOmegadusk 1 year ago
@TheOmegadusk You moron - " an instance where Olbermann failed to give fully accurate information?" He does that every fucking night! Your opinion of O'reilly et al...hmmmmmm "I can only imagine why...."
marklross2 1 year ago
@marklross2 Really? Every fucking night you say? Then shouldn't your channel be JAMMED packed with vids showing Olbermann's distinct lack of honesty? Those I previously mentioned have legions of vids showing their dishonesty- where are the equivilants for MSNBC? I looked for them and I found very very few, and almost zero of any merit.
Again, there is no substance in your rebuttal. Are you having trouble defending your position?
TheOmegadusk 1 year ago
@TheOmegadusk There's only so many hours in the day pal...I can't keep up with his endless propaganda. You don't see as many examples from conservatives about MSNBC and the like because there are just too many incidents to keep up with, and most conservatives have jobs that keep them busy....
marklross2 1 year ago
@marklross2 For such a hard working man, you are an absolute master of the no-substance cop-out retort. They are not there because it doesn't happen as rapidly as on Fox- not by a long shot.
You must be insinuating that I do not have a job to keep me busy? Very cute. Conservatives love to tout themselves as the only people that work in this country. You and yours live in a fantasy world.
TheOmegadusk 1 year ago
@TheOmegadusk Ha! Fantasy world...that's rich - problem is - that's your address pal....You are the one that believes Overblownman and other lefty media blowholes don't lie. Now THAT'S fantasy! You can just keep posting, and I will just keep responding. I have one advantage - I'm right....
marklross2 1 year ago
@marklross2 A continuation of your fantasy. Allow me to help. Being a right wing extremist is not at all the same thing as being correct. I did not say that liberals don't lie- I said that they don't lie enough to have a mass of videos about them lying. Fox news definitely does.
I appreciate your continued vigilance. It is creating a litany of your ignorance. If you are so certain of your position, prove me wrong. Or you could go on like a stupid windbag like your heroes at Fox. :)
TheOmegadusk 1 year ago
@TheOmegadusk Your mischaracterization of me as an "extremist" is only further proof of how out of touch with reality you are. It is no wonder you think Overblown man is no more biased than any Foxnews opinion personality. The proof you ask for is on MSNBC. Just turn on, tune in, and voi la!
marklross2 1 year ago
@marklross2 Oh excuse me sir! Let's do a checklist to figure out your position. Against rights for homosexuals? Think blacks and muslims are dangerously different? Think christianity is being discriminated against? Think abortion is objectionable regardless of circumstance? Think Beck's tears are real?
TheOmegadusk 1 year ago
@TheOmegadusk You wouldn't accept my answers as truthful anyway, so why should I bother? If I say I am not against gay rights, you'll just shout "liar! homophobe!" That's how you leftys work....
marklross2 1 year ago
@marklross2 Well you appear to have some misconceptions of people more liberal than you. I actually really like hearing a conservative voice disagree with the mainstream conservatives. Seriously, tell me your views of these things and I'll try to take you at face value.
Say, "Gay's should have all of the rights of a US citizen, including marriage," or, "Glenn Beck was obviously faking when he cried on TV," or "people who think abortion is never viable have never spoken to a rape victim."
TheOmegadusk 1 year ago
@TheOmegadusk Gay's should have all of the rights of a US citizen, but marriage is not a right, it is a licensed privilege. That being said, gays should not be denied same sex marriage licenses. I don't care if Glenn Beck cried. I think late term and partial birth abortion is gruesome. Finally - none of this has anything to do with the fact that Keith Overblownman misrepresented the facts about the trade of plumbing an its licensing...
marklross2 1 year ago
@marklross2 Agreed, these things have nothing to do with each other. However, it is good to hear that you do not agree with everything that the Fox simpletons profess. Our differences on these topics have only to do with how strongly we feel about them. I would have to say that Beck's fake crying does indicate a strong lack of honesty (and acting skills). I also agree that partial birth abortions should not be legal in most- not all- cases.
Anything else you disagree with them about?
TheOmegadusk 1 year ago
@TheOmegadusk I am through with this pointless discussion...
marklross2 1 year ago
@marklross2 Your ellipsis would suggest otherwise.
Now at least I realize that you watch Fox because it's on your level. I shall miss your complete lack of substance.
TheOmegadusk 1 year ago
@TheOmegadusk Number on times Fox opinion shows have guests who oppose the viewpoint of the host - I have lost count. Number of times Keith Overblown man has had a guest on Countdown who has conflicting viewpoint - ZERO...If you are a dyed in the wool Fox news conspiracy theorist, you will of course deny and ignore the obvious. You may now resume being a tool...
marklross2 1 year ago
@marklross2 Thought you were done Mark? What is the point of bringing on people of differing opinions if you are just going to cut them off, yell over them, and otherwise disallow them from imparting their differing opinions.
I can't speak for Olbermann but Maddow, Mathews, and O'Donnell have guests of differing opinions on all the time. And they respectfully allow their guests to say their peace even if it's absurd and objectionable. Fox could take a chapter out of their book.
TheOmegadusk 1 year ago
@TheOmegadusk This video is about overblown man.....
marklross2 1 year ago
@marklross2 Indeed it is, but the conversation has expanded to include Fox news. I don't always catch Olbermann but I can admit that I have never seen a guest on there with a differing opinion. You used Fox as an example, so defend your point.
TheOmegadusk 1 year ago
@TheOmegadusk Even though O'reilly is a blowhard, he entertains opposing viewpoints. Even though he is a conservative, Sean Hannity ALWAYS has at least one liberal in his daily panel discussion. Fox maybe obviously right leaning, but they broadcast more of BOTH sides of the issues than MSNBC ever does. The pointr is - Keith Overblownman is too much of a pussy to ever actually confront anyone with an opposing opinion...
marklross2 1 year ago
@marklross2 I hate to say this, but I get the distinct idea that you have never watched MSNBC. You sound like a dyed in the wool MSNBC conspiracy theorist. O'Reilly and Hannity are always cutting people off and shouting over them. The few times that they invited someone on who was competent (no Colmes doesn't count) they just railroaded the conversation. Watch either of them with Richard Dawkins or O'Reilly with Jon Stewart or Steven Colbert. They edited them to save face.
Seriously, look.
TheOmegadusk 1 year ago
@TheOmegadusk Wrong...I watched Countdown religiously for about a year before I realized Overblownman was ever going to engage in actual debate. You have seen only the few examples of O'Reilly and Hannity that competitors use to discredit them. Many times they allow uninterrupted discourse. Besides, I'd rather hear a shouting argument than Overblownman haranguing on one of his one-sided tirades - seriously...
marklross2 1 year ago
@marklross2 Untrue, I have seen at least 30 full episodes each. You should give Maddow a chance, she's pretty much my favorite pundit. Honest and polite- wave of the future I hope!
TheOmegadusk 1 year ago
@TheOmegadusk I gave Maddow a chance as soon as she came on...too bad she let's her rank partisanship bias everything she says....
marklross2 1 year ago
@marklross2 Pundits are obviously bias- no matter the channel. I like her because she's honest about it. O'Reilly claims that there's no spin on his show- which is a lie. She's upfront about it and I find her refreshing.
TheOmegadusk 1 year ago
@TheOmegadusk More evidence you have either not watched, or just don't pay attention. O'reilly regularly admits he is opinionated. By "no spin" he refers to the fact that his show ALWAYS features views from BOTH sides of the issue (rarely if ever is that the case with Maddow) and that HE won't allow guests to "spin" their comments...
marklross2 1 year ago
@marklross2 Now you have officially moved into the realm of talking out of your ass. If by both sides you mean he brings on a weak liberal (like Hannity used to with Colmes) and badgers them or puts words in their mouths, then I guess that's true. I have never once saw O'Reilly debate someone of differing opinion without resorting to bullying and flat out being disingenuous.
I can easily give you examples if you would like. I can also give examples of Maddow entertaining conservative ideas.
TheOmegadusk 1 year ago
@TheOmegadusk More evidence your ass is talking. I have already admitted that there are a FEW examples of O'reilly shouting that are used to disparage the entire Fox network. Look - I'm done arguing with a brainwashed true believer like you. I am content with the knowledge that I watched both Overblownman and Madcow long enough to determine how worthlessly one sided their shows are, and have seen BOTH SIDES of the issues on Fox. Again I say - I'd rather hear shouting arguments than just one side
marklross2 1 year ago 2
@marklross2 Whatever you deluded twit. Sure I am the brainwashed one. What a fucking joke! People like you will always live in a fantasy land over your precious foreign-funded Faux News asshats. You enjoy your made up news now, and don't let the real world interfere with your point of view! Reality would be tragic! I should have known this was a waste of time.
TheOmegadusk 1 year ago
@TheOmegadusk Thank you for the waste of time. Of course nothing you said disproved the point i made that Overblownman made a mountain out of a molehill when it came to "Joe the Plumber's" unlicensed status because many states allow unlicensed contractors to work their trade under the umbrella of their licensed employer. So, call me deluded or whatever will make you think you accomplished something here, when in fact - you haven't...
putz...
marklross2 1 year ago
@marklross2 Asshat, it is plain to see that I accomplished nothing in this exchange and I am willing to admit it. Admittance: something that you and your ilk are incapable of.
TheOmegadusk 1 year ago
@TheOmegadusk Yes - you accomplished nothing because you are wrong. I ADMIT that I am right....
marklross2 1 year ago
@marklross2 Thank you for illustrating my point perfectly.
TheOmegadusk 1 year ago
@TheOmegadusk Right back atcha bucko!
marklross2 1 year ago
@linuxmadman Will Rogers indeed! What was I thinking. I appreciate your frank and respectful comments. Subtlety is not my aim in many of my videos because I know that the sycophantic audiences of Stewart and Olbermann are brainwashed. I can only offer to you that if you think Stewart is classy - you must be among those ranks...
marklross2 1 year ago
@linuxmadman jon Steart is a hack comedian without the class to know when enough is enough. He is nowhere near the savvy and talent of a real satirist like Twain, or Will Roberts.
marklross2 1 year ago
@linuxmadman Except that Ølbermann implies with his douchey smugness that there is something suspect about Joe because he doesn't have a license and Keith's sycophantic audience who don't think for themselves need to know the truth...thanks for the compliment though.....
marklross2 1 year ago
You do need a license in the State of Ohio. A simple Google search will tell you the truth.
Nice attempt at lying though (thank goodness you teabaggers are incapable of dong independent research,
teriandjack 1 year ago
@teriandjack Idiot - One can work under the license of a contractor, legally, without possessing a license. Fuck you for calling me a liar asshole...
marklross2 1 year ago
Whoa! very nice, you're um.. so black and white. A little off topic here but I'll add but since it's on my mind and being a PA resident.. that Olbermann and Alren Specter have something very much in common, they are both shameless opportunist.
dannicus617 2 years ago
om...ok....
marklross2 2 years ago
Olbermann deep down inside is a very hateful man, who if given the opportunity, would do some things that really would enlighten people on how stupid this man really is.
UGLYSTIKCOLIN 2 years ago
Right you are!
marklross2 2 years ago
@marklross2
Great video Mark!
Did you happen to see the hit job that Rick Sanchez (CNN) did on Joe about a month after this? It was as low brow as Olbermann.
It's amazingly predictable how liberals react to any conservative message that gets traction. What you immediately see - is the attack/marginalize the messenger strategy .... and very little substance to their challenges of the actual message. It seems so obvious & dishonest to me, but the MSM helps to propagate it.
klrdotorg 1 year ago 2
@klrdotorg Right out of "Rules for Radials" - you called it! they always immediately resort to "attack/marginalize the messenger strategy ." Thanks for the feedback!
marklross2 1 year ago
Great point Palin4ViceP. Olbermann only attracts other stupid assholes who don't look at ALL the facts before they speak. How else could you explain the fact that his show has pulled very low ratings for years.
bnicolai23 2 years ago 5
Seriously, Olbermann and rachel maddow NEVER have any people on their shows that DISAGREE with them...anyone ever notice that???
a TRUE political show has people who DEBATE......Even the Fox network has debates. MSNBC IS REDICULOUS.
Palin4ViceP 2 years ago 4
Thank you for making that point....
marklross2 2 years ago 2
I heard from people who work with olbermann and he has serious isues.
edazctly 2 years ago 4
Yes - that is why John Gibson calls him "bathtub boy."
marklross2 2 years ago 2
Good job.
edazctly 2 years ago 2
This comment has received too many negative votes show
haha video only got 3 stars lol, and only 700 views even though its been out a year, very weak. haha my friend posted a video of him dancing on the campus of wash u to chris browns, "forever" , 20,000 views the first week. lol very weak video
rsspillenkothe 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
this is so fucking dumb. fuck ur black and white bullshit, olbermanns the fucking man, ur an idiot. if u think olbermann "lies" watch fox news for three seconds u retard
rsspillenkothe 2 years ago
you are an idiot...
marklross2 2 years ago 2
Comment removed
rsspillenkothe 2 years ago
Olbermann, need a iron pipe across the face. I am so sick of pices of shit like him.
nero8289 2 years ago 2
Heck yeah. God Bless Joe the plumber. Fuck Olbermann, and FUCK OBAMA
brian8793 2 years ago 7
Let see him start attacking all those who speak up at town hall meetings....
marklross2 2 years ago
No, I think Obama is getting the message on what the responsible sector of our society is SHOUTING......
brian8793 2 years ago 2
yeah man!
marklross2 2 years ago
Peace, and God Bless:)
brian8793 2 years ago
KO said that joe has no plumbing license he did not say that joe wasn't a plumber in fact he called him "joe the plumber"
KO did't say it would be impossible for joe to buy the business because he only made 40k he said it would be difficult
obama said his tax plan would only raise taxes on people making over 250k a year so unless joe started making 250k a year he would not be put in the higher tax bracket which means that mccain brought him up because he would be obove the 250k line
deathreaver3356 2 years ago
What part of UNLICENSED did you not understand? You are obviously a hopeless KO sycophant idiot. Anything else you said is irrelevant.
marklross2 2 years ago 3
Keith isn't a Journalist he's a pundit, and he didn't say Joe wasn't a plumber he only said he didn't have a license to do it.
Not that it matters because Joe now has GOP contracts.
KidsTrax 2 years ago
Wow so this is the best you can come up on olbermann being a lying manipulative two faced reporter, because i gotta say you don't make much of a point, and oh yeah i think what keith was saying all though i can't say for sure is that mccains point was obama was going to raise taxes for the average american when that isn't true, but then again i guess you didn't watch the clip in it's entirety or just cut it to make ur self look smart either way your that thats being manipulative on that point
scientologydies 2 years ago
you are completely wrong. ko was not making a point about mccain at al;l - didn't you get that? all he does is attack a person for opposing his idol - obama - you fail
marklross2 2 years ago 4
no ur wrong, but i have better things to do than argue with some shut in on youtube, and besides Ko is a hell of a lot better than fox noise any day
scientologydies 2 years ago
Keep lying to yourself...it will all seem better soon......
marklross2 2 years ago 2
As for comparing KO to any of the useless Fox Noise (makers)... not even a contest.
While it is true that KO is not a journalist... neither are any of the clowns over at Fox... at least KO admits he isn't.
He also has a tendency to admit when he is wrong abut something... I have yet to see or hear of any the kids over at the Propaganda channel ever admit to being wrong about much, if ever.
Slowly Fox is drowning in its own vile, lies, and distortions... I for one won't miss them!
captfoster1 2 years ago
The Fox news ANALYSTS openly admit where their bias lies. If you claim they do not, you either do not watch, or you are a liar....
marklross2 2 years ago 3
ah yes and that is why they have million dollar ad campaigns calling themselves "fair and balanced" catch that one FAIR AND FUCKING BALANCED when there in fact as far away from that as humanly possible
scientologydies 2 years ago
Do you really believe that Joe "The Used by the right-wing tool of a Fake" Plumber has the brain capacity to run a business? He does not even own the ability to realize the right-wing has used him.
As for your lame-ass video and the use of black and white distortions to protect your identity. Pathetic.
NiteSho is correct...Olbermann is a political commentator and sometimes interviewer not a journalist. If you can't tell the difference... then you are as worthless as Joe!
captfoster1 2 years ago
Your video gave me a sick feeling in the pit of my stomach...sick that people actually tolerate Olbermann.
leftwaffe 2 years ago 3
not only tolerate - actually believe...
marklross2 2 years ago 2
This has been flagged as spam show
If people like Olbermann had their way, a lot of folks who don't think or believe what he does would be dead or in a gulag. One has only to consider the Left's body count globally during the 20th century; recall how they used rhetoric to marginalize and dehumanize their opposition; and then give Olberman another listen. He represents a dark, dishonest and unpleasant future, indeed.
gorillamummy 2 years ago
Comment removed
gorillamummy 2 years ago
Comment removed
gorillamummy 2 years ago
Keith Olbermann is a political commentator. That you support the Faux News mindset shows you will never understand the wit of him and Rachel Maddow.Unlike the many Faux News people, he can cite FACTS....not make up information
nitesho 2 years ago
First, you call KO a commentator. Then say he cites facts...he is only a commentator, not a journalist because he does not cite faacts. He exaggerates, and bends the truth. There is no wit. Only Keith and Rachel complaining, then invitibg guests on to agree with them. Wow - what a format! Scintillating!
marklross2 2 years ago 3
This is a general comment. It is directed to those who have viewed this video and to the person who created an uploaded the video.
It is our responsibilty as a society, to out those who distort, remove, and simply disregard the truth for political advantage or gain.
I share in this authors efforts. I may disagree in some of his assertions, however, I commend those who are "keeping them honest".
There is no place for political bias in the news. So let's keep them ALL honest.
Albertaguy123 2 years ago 2
"You can't even take a person at his word" this video states. Hhhhmmm Joe the Plumber said he was a plumber. He in fact is a plumber's helper. He said he wanted to buy the business he was working at ... he has no money. He actually owes back taxes. He makes no where near $250K, owes back taxes, is not a plumber but a plumber's helper.
Why can't we just take this moron at his word ... hhhhmmm ... because he lied. But I am glad he's the neo-con's hero!
Palin please run 2012!
Signed SNL
Albertaguy123 2 years ago
moron - if you called someone to unclog your toilet, and he did, then he left, would you say the plumber had been by? Would you demand to see his certification before you called him a plumber? Ha! Back taxes?!! So the fuck what?!! Obama's man at tthe treasury had back taxes!! Bah wa ha hahaha! you're a mindless lefty who can't see how used by the media government complex you are. No free thought! Ask Obama a question, and be ATTACKED by the mindless sheep...baaahhh baaahhh baahhh...
putz!
marklross2 2 years ago 4
Yes, mindless talking point sheep. McCain and Palin and Joe the Plumber. You summed it up. You do not know me, how dare you call someone a moron to whom you know nothing about.
Joe the Plumber is clearly a perfect face for this neo-con party. I loved it when Samuel (real name) was reporting from Israel about how reporters should not be reporting in the middle east, classic hypocrisy.
Putz? You sir, speak more of yourself when you use such words than anything your vile mouth has to say.
Albertaguy123 2 years ago
i love your put on airs and artificial indignation. it's comical. moron? well what you say is self evidently moronic in nature. the label is suited to you.
marklross2 2 years ago 3
I love your put on airs? (wth?)
Yes one who shall put labels on others for whom they are unfamiliar with, truly wears the ugliest label of all. Ignorance comes from the lack of knowledge on a subject, stupidity is to open ones mouth anyway.
Oh Waiter, I am done with this carcus, check please.
Albertaguy123 2 years ago
That's right - try to convince yourself of some superiority by simply declaring yourself the victor of nothing - pathetic - you have never successfully addressed or refuted the assertion of my vid. But if it makes you feel good, go ahead, pretend...if it feels good do it - right?
marklross2 2 years ago 2
I have never even said I watched your whole video.
Again, the ignorance is showing.
I stopped watching after your video commentator (blurred figure) defended Samuel Wurzelbacher from Mr. Olbermann's factual assertions.
It is, by the way, not only Mr. Olbermann's factual assertions, it is in fact quite simply factual. Do google "Joe the Plumber lies".
With all of the lies spewed forth by Fox news commentators, one does wonder why, you sir, would choose to attack factual commentaries.
Albertaguy123 2 years ago
You miss the more important aspect. Why did the media feel it necessary to attack some run of the mill guy for asking a question? Because propagandists like Keith Olbermann have absolute allegiance to Obama, and serve as his ministers of misinformation. If you deny that - you are part of the brainwashed masses...
marklross2 2 years ago 2
I would agree with the assertion that there are left wing commentators and right wing commentators.
I think there is no debate on that to be sure. However, I get my news from all types of media and can filter out who is propagating their "opinion".
What I find is that like him or not, Olbermann simply reads back comments from the like's of O'Reilly, Hannity, and he is factually correct in most assessments.
Is he left, no doubt. I am not. I agree with his assessments when they are factual.
Albertaguy123 2 years ago
I apologize, perhaps not clear in my previous comment. "I get my news from all types of media and can filter out who is propagting their opinion", that includes Olbermann.
1) Keith does have facts, ironically that is a fact. Has he been wrong ... I've seen him out himself as the worst person in the world.
2) I get my facts from comparing credible news sources & research. I can spot when a left or right wing commentator is wrong.
3) And your show is?
Albertaguy123 2 years ago
i watch countdown almost daily...and compare that to other shows on Fox...
marklross2 2 years ago
Lefty?
I sir am a card carrying conservative. I vote conservative and I volunteer for conservative candidates.
Your real ignorance is showing, lets see if you now shall open your mouth and expose your stupidity.
Albertaguy123 2 years ago
If listening to Keith mock other commentator's opinions in a stupid bugs bunny voice is what you consider getting "ther facts" - well - so be it...
marklross2 2 years ago
Maybe a more important issue is the attempt to publicly destroy a man for asking Barrack a question.
bootlegpreacher 2 years ago
exactly!
marklross2 2 years ago
The Joe the Plumber issue is about OBAMA'S ANSWER . It doesn't matter if he was Joe the Republican spy or Joe the Obama hating racist bigot fox news working campaign wrecking liar.
If anyone earns over $250,000 in any job (except Treasury Secretary of course) they'll have to pay more taxes in order to "spread the wealth" and give it to someone who doesn't earn it.
bootlegpreacher 2 years ago
Anyhow ASSHOLES you GOTTA know that you LOST for a REASON - and the PATHETIC AND LAUGHABLE thing is you guys THINK that THE REASON you lost is the SOLUTION to winning again in the future!
I'll spell it out for you 72% of Americans ARE DISGUSTED with loopy fringe right wing lunacy - and you guys think that if you give the American people MORE of that it will spell SUCCESS in the future!
What I HOPE is that the BLUDGEONING you took in Novemeber is NOTHING like the one you will get in 2010!
twochordcool 2 years ago
God - the anger - it's palpable.... you consider yourself "tolerant?" Since you seem to focus upon what it is to be a plumber. I'll address that. You, like all collectivist intellectual bureaucrats have put too much thought into "plumber." If my toilet gets clogged I call a "plumber." The "plumber" who may be a high school student working part time for his uncle, the licensed plumber, unplugs the toilet. I thank the "plumber" for having done "plumbing." Joe was a plumber.
marklross2 2 years ago 3
Joe was a plumber APPRENTICE - nowhere near the professional or financial level of someone about ready to buy a plumbers business - HENCE Olbermann had it right.
I'M an electrician for the local commuter railroad - who once worked as an APPRENTICE for residential wiring UNDER a licensed electrician.
It MIGHT be plausible, but I can't recall ANYONE that owned an electrician business who WASN'T A LICENSED ELECTRICIAN THEMSELF.
twochordcool 2 years ago
And YOU'RE DAMN RIGHT I'M ANGRY - you "conservatives" are a BUNCH OF RETARDS WHO ARE STUPID AND WRONG ABOUT DAMN NEAR EVERYTHING - you people are the EQUIVALENT of concrete shoes on our nation's feet and balls and chains on our ankles - GO EDUCATE YOURSELF AND QUIT HOLDING BACK THE PROGRESS OF OUR ONCE GREAT NATION.
twochordcool 2 years ago
And you know what the difference between you and me is - I use common sense and think for myself - and HAPPEN to agree with people like Olbermann - YOU ON THE OTHER HAND don't have a SINGLE ORIGINAL THOUGHT rattling around in that so-called brain of yours - EVERYTHING you think you know or have learned you have gotten from RIGHT WING PROPAGANDA - and that makes you more of a MORONIC SHEEP THAN A PERSON.
twochordcool 2 years ago
Much of what I learned, I learned in the PUBLIC SCHOOL SYSTEM of this great nation...
marklross2 2 years ago
Whatever man - conservatives have some kind of personality disoder - THAT'S a fucking FACT.
twochordcool 2 years ago
Yes - of course - whatever....
marklross2 2 years ago
@twochordcool Hey - out-of-your-mind crazy liberal.......... you said
"What I HOPE is that the BLUDGEONING you took in Novemeber is NOTHING like the one you will get in 2010!"
Nice prediction - dumb ass. I love reading old posts from libtards.
klrdotorg 1 year ago 2
CORRECT shithead! You can work UNDER someone else license IF that person that you are working for inspects and signs off on your work BUT that does not make JOE THE DICKHEAD a plumber - it makes him an APPRENTICE that is NOWHERE NEAR being a plumber himself, owner of a plumping business OR able to sign off on ANYONES work. Joe the APPRENTICE - got that SCUMBAG?
twochordcool 2 years ago
Don't worry Joe, he's either going to allow the Bush tax reductions to be nulled out in 2010 or he's going to repeal them so that way as he basically has ALWAYS promised despite certain ignoring logical conclusion to raise EVERYONE'S TAXES.
But that won't kill us, nope we are about to die from hyperinflation. Joe your plunger is going to be worth 2 million dollars. Then you'll be able to buy 2 gallons of milk! Oh yay! Joy Glory Rapture!
deltapunk21 2 years ago
RedPandaBoy, you need to understand that the very manner in which KO speaks implies Right-Wing/Conservative corruption and manipulation. As you well know RedPanda most communication comes in the form of non-verbal cues. His body language tells me that what he says is the real truth, a capital "T" truth if you will. If he is going to hold other people to such a standard then he should be on par with that standard. Unfortunately for KO he can in no way measure up to his standards of others.
mtb416 3 years ago
interesting...
marklross2 3 years ago
5 stars man. Olbermann is truly a radical and for some reason MSNBC gives him a national platform to shout nothing more than FOX News hate speech and twisted truths about Conservatives. I deeply feel your pain about Sunday night football, he almost ruins my viewing experience, forcing my mind to think of his mindless drivel.
The use of the "negative" picture instead of color was great. It allowed me to listen to your words, not focus on you. You sound sincere and truthful, because it is true.
mtb416 3 years ago
Applying for a buisness loan.....hehe I like that one..
deltapunk21 3 years ago
Comment removed
jeckert8888 3 years ago
Oh.. another point.. if Joe start to make 250 thousand dollars a year... then literally he would be rich.
Obama's tax plan only tax the rich. Joe would not qualified unless.. he's rich.
If Joe saves up 250 thousand dollars, that would be none taxable, because that would be his savings, not yearly wages. If he ever start to make enough to be tax, then Joe has it made.
RedPandaBoy 3 years ago
exactly, why would anyone making 160,000 a year, AFTER TAXES, feel like complaining that they'd have to pay another 1,000 in taxes? oh no, 66 dollars an hour, 159,000 a year, isnt enough to live on? thats called greed
chaoszieg 3 years ago
I don't think it can be called greed... the maker of this video doesn't make that much, so he's not in the loop.
I think it's republican misdirection. The maker wants us to ignore that Obama will only tax the 'rich'. Then put Average Joe in the picture, who clearly isn't rich.
Then want to call Keith a liar, for pointing out McCain's contradiction that Obama tax plan has nothing to do with Joe.
He wants to make up things and say "Maybe Joe wants this" ... ignoring the evidence present.
RedPandaBoy 3 years ago
You know.. you cut right between McCain's statement when he claimed that Joe wouldn't be able to employ people if Obama increase his taxes.
That one bit would have made Olbermann's statement valid.. Because McCain claimed that someone making 250 dollars in personal gain (which is difference from the business expensive..you employ people with the business money, not your personal profit) can't afford hiring people..
I think that proves you're bias or a liar.
RedPandaBoy 3 years ago
xD so your basing things on what Joe wishes he could possibly make, and thats based on almost tripling the income of the business? You boob
chaoszieg 3 years ago
Defeatist...
marklross2 3 years ago 2
I think this is what you call bias. instead of looking at the facts.. he makes up things.
RedPandaBoy 3 years ago
realist. wanting to take over a business is fine, wanting to emprove business is fine, but tripling it is not resonable, or realistic
chaoszieg 3 years ago
eh... you didn't discover any lies.. in fact you made errors... Obama's tax plan will only tax him if a quarter of a million dollars. Even if Joe buys the business, he won't recieve a tax increase..
The premise you set up are all wrong.. it was already stated.. It's about "obama's" tax plan and how Obama's tax plan will taxes him.. but the line is.. YOU HAVE TO BE MAKING A QUARTER OF A MILLION DOLLARS! So.. McCain was lying..
RedPandaBoy 3 years ago
Your comment is so marginally coherent, I can't respond to it...Would you like to try again?
marklross2 3 years ago
OK, generally. The premise is based on Obama's plan. Obama's tax plan will only tax people making one quarter of a million dollars. Joe doesn't make that much money. The company he 'dreams' of buying doesn't make that much money. No tax increase.
McCain was wrong, Keith understanding of the situation was right. Olbermann did not lie.
RedPandaBoy 3 years ago
No, Keith was wrong when he tried to imply that not having a license invalidated Joe's question to Øbama. The point Joe is trying to make is that Øbama's tax plan DIScourages people like Joe to strive to prosper when doing so just rewards your hard work with a higher tax...By saying Joe won't have to worry, because as long as he is earning BELOW the Øbama's threshold amount, his tax doesn't go up exactly how Øbama's plan KEEPS people like Joe in a lower economic class. Olbermann lies...
marklross2 3 years ago
Olbermann stated that joe was an unlicensed plumber and took the question at face value. McCain stated in the debate that Obama would be 'TAXING' Joe.
The 'discourage' part you created on your own.. Though i don't think that make sense... Even if you'll face higher taxes, you still have half a million dollars, which is better than making 10 thousand.
It's like saying you won't buy the better TV because of sale tax.. which no one really follow.
RedPandaBoy 3 years ago
correction, a quarter of a million dollars. I stated half a million. In truth, it's a quarter million.
No offense, but it looks like you're trying to paint Olbermann as Bias... with your own bias. If there is proof Olbermann lies (which is different from having a bias) or show favor to one party than the other.. I'll listen.
But so far, there's no proof. So far he call out on republican corruption and lies.. because they're doing it the most..
RedPandaBoy 3 years ago
I'm sure I can't convince a true believer like you that when KO says McCain thinks a middle class plumber is "earning 250" that he is lying. Or at least employing distortion. McCain did not assume Joe was earning 250, he said he "worked 10-1`2 hrs. a day" and was saving up to buy the biz...Your comparison of higher income tax to sales tax is specious. One can choose what to pay sales tax on. One doesn't get to choose how one's income tax is spent..
marklross2 3 years ago
You want quote McCain. To finish your quote, "He wanted to buy the business, and he saw he was going to pay higher taxes. You were going to put him in a much higher tax bracket." McCain was _wrong_, because Joe would not have been taxed unless he made a quarter million dollars in personal income.
For my example on the TV, you do realize it was base on your argument that taxes DIScourages people from striving to prosperity. Prosperity is like the TV. If you want it, taxes don't matter
RedPandaBoy 3 years ago
It's amazing you skipped the substance of the argument. Keith Olbermann said the follower
"Senator McCain entire premise in raising Joe the Plumber was based on the idea that an average joe could be earning 250 thousand dollars and that could qualify as struggling and in dire need for tax relief"
The piece you need to get to understand that statement.. Joe thinks he's going to be taxed by Obama's plan. That's the premise.. and Keith only spelled it out with details
RedPandaBoy 3 years ago
Keith's statement is inaccurate. McCain's premise is that an average Joe through a lifetime of 10-12 hour days, just might get to a point where he could afford to buy the biz, and BEGIN making a higher income. But in doing so, he will pay more in an income tax that he does not have control as to how that tax is spent. It is not the same as making a decision to pay sales tax on a luxury item..
marklross2 3 years ago
If you go back to McCain.. let me continue the quote.
"...higher tax bracket. Which is going to increase his taxes, _which is going to cause him not to employ people_ which Joe is trying to realize the American dream"
Are you trying to imply that someone making 250 K can't afford to pay high taxes, like McCain did? And let's not forget... the business Joe would like to buy.. DOESN'T MAKE 250 THOUSAND DOLLARS.
RedPandaBoy 3 years ago
Personal income is what a business owner has to use to reinvest in his biz. So, to say Joe made 250k thiis year - he's rich - ignores the fact that Joe must decide whether that 250k can be truly kept all for himself, or if MOST of it MUST be reinvested to KEEP the biz in biz. Not to mention living expenses which are not tax write offs. The biz isn't making 250? Ever heard of GROWING a biz? (Of couse that takes reinvestment of your own income).
marklross2 3 years ago
If joe's company makes 250k in a year and he reinvests half of that money, the money he uses won't be taxed and only the profit the owner keep would be taxed.
So if joe gets really lucky and makes 1 million dollars, and reinvest 800k of it back into the business, his 200k he keeps won't be taxed.
Obama's tax plan is a bit more detailed.. maybe you should read it first.
RedPandaBoy 3 years ago
The last I checked, personal income gets taxed first - then it can be reinvested into a biz. The reinvestment is a capital expense, not a business expense and is neither written off or tax credited. You make 250k, you get taxed on 250k. THEN with what you have left of your income, if you so choose, you can make a capital investment.
marklross2 3 years ago
according to Obama's plan. It will. If you invest money in hiring people, under Obama's tax plan, you get tax credit and tax cuts.
Everything goes back to Obama's tax plan... you can't argue against it if you don't know what it is...
RedPandaBoy 3 years ago
Hiring people is not a capital outlay. It is a business expense. Owners do not get tax refunds for investing their own capital in their business.
marklross2 3 years ago
You want to be specific with words and going into specifics.... okay..
I said "under Obama's tax plan, you get tax credit and tax cuts"
I didn't say you get a "tax refund".
RedPandaBoy 3 years ago
OK - this has gone too far - Under Øbama's tax plan, Joe gets put into a higher tax bracket if he starts to earn more than 250k. Øbama is not going to REDUCE the income tax RATE on the middle class. He is going to issue a blanket tax credit for those with incomes less than 250k. Problem is, there are countless people who will qualify for that tax credit WHO DON'T PAY INCOME TAX normally. Those people are not receiving a credit on the tax they paid. The check they get is welfare.
marklross2 3 years ago
If Øbama would just come out and say, "I want to get welfare going back at the rate it was going before congress pushed through welfare reform." Then maybe I'd vote for him. I have nothing against helping other people....
marklross2 3 years ago
The issue was based on Joe.. but if you want to spread it to other things.. ok...
If Joe makes over 250K in net profit, that 250 will be taxed, which would have nothing to do with the running of the business.
For everything else you said, i'm currently not so sure, but you know that i don't consider you credible. Income tax are forced on us.. to get a refund, you need to pay some from of tax.
But I don't see anything in obama's plan that support what you claim.
RedPandaBoy 3 years ago
Details of tax-credit debate can get lost in the slogans
By Michael Kranish
Globe Staff / October 22, 2008
William Beach, director of the conservative Heritage Foundation's Center for Data Analysis, said that he wouldn't characterize Obama's tax plan as "socialist," calling it a "redistribution of income." But he noted that neither candidate wants to end the progressive tax system under which wealthier people have higher tax rates.
marklross2 3 years ago
McCain has also complained that Obama wants to give tax cuts to people who pay no income taxes by providing refundable tax credits. McCain is correct that Obama wants to greatly expand the use of such credits. For example, Obama has proposed offsetting the Social Security tax on the first $8,100 of income with a maximum tax credit of $500 for some workers.
marklross2 3 years ago
Obama also has proposed tax credits for education and expanding an existing credit for lower-income workers. The McCain campaign calls such credits "welfare" because it could mean the government sends checks to people who owe no income taxes.
marklross2 3 years ago
Obama Tax Plan Aimed To Help Homeowners and Seniors: Who Else?
by Gerald Prante
Obama's tax plan began with a "Making Work Pay" credit that would offset payroll taxes on the first $8,100 of earnings, generating up to $500 per person or $1,000 per family. The campaign said that would eliminate income taxes for 10 million low-income Americans.
There is really no need for a new credit for low-income people.
marklross2 3 years ago
If Obama wants to accomplish the end he is aiming for, then the "Making Work Pay" credit could just be coupled with reforming/expanding the Earned Income Tax Credit and an expansion of the standard deduction rather than having some new credit designed to lower income taxes on low-income earners.
marklross2 3 years ago
Or he could move in the direction of the Tax Reform Panel and make a uniform Family Credit to replace the standard deduction, personal exemptions, and the child tax credit, and a uniform Work Credit to replace the complex EITC.
marklross2 3 years ago
At least you using Obama's plan... or direct me to a source that critizes it. There seems to be a possiblity for a form of welfare according to the article. But you stated that it 'will'.
But you established the posibility. Now we're off that. Would there really be a problem with Joe if he bought his business? according to Obama and out outside sources, no.
RedPandaBoy 3 years ago
According to Øbama, as soon as Joe starts to earn more than 250k - he gets moved into a higher tax bracket...
marklross2 3 years ago
and would there be a problem with Joe if he makes more than 250K and pay hire taxes, according to Obama's plan?
RedPandaBoy 3 years ago
Yes - the problem is that the arbitrary threshold Joe crosses does not accurately reflect Joe's actual living situation and true monetary worth. So, he gets bumped up to the next level that he may not really be able to afford. The Peter Principle applied to taxes: Joe gets moved up to his next higher level of economic inefficiency...
marklross2 3 years ago
and we go back straight into the same circle. according to obama's plan, it'll only take in the profit that he makes as an individual. The 250K he makes would be the money he keeps
If he needs to use 228K for his business, what left would be considered for taxation.
RedPandaBoy 3 years ago
I'm not going to explain the business cycle to you. But here goes. One more time. When he reports 250k as income, that is after he has declared all his biz expenses etcetera, and he gets taxed on that income. Boom - NOW after having paid that tax, if he wants to make a 228k capital investment in his biz, he does so after already having been taxed on his FULL income. That's what being a biz owner is all about. In the NEXT biz cycle he may be able to claim some depreciation on that capital, but
marklross2 3 years ago
that's it. ?Until the next cycle, whatever he has left after reinvesting in his biz, will just have to do...none of this has anything to do with the point of my vid. That being that KO is attacking this guy just like all the amateur bloggers did, because he poses a threat to Øbama,,,Unless you want to defend KO's ad hominem approach to this argument - this thread is frayed...
marklross2 3 years ago
actually Olbermann wasn't attacking Joe the plumber.. He was attacking John McCain.. because currently the Business Joe would like to buy won't be taxed under Obama's plan.
If the business made 250 and more.. yeah. But simple fact... it doesn't. McCain's argument does not exist.. according to fact check and other non partisan groups. Joe would benefit more from Obama's plan..
RedPandaBoy 3 years ago
To say KO was not attacking Joe just reveals how much of a true believer you are. If you cannot at least acknowledge that character assassination that KO does is to call into question Joe and not his question, I will not be able to persuade yu, and will not want to waste my time...
marklross2 3 years ago