@vfkskullanger, what u talking about? russians built everything to counter the americans lol. Plus Americans figher pilots never faced the russians , it was always the poorly trained Iraqis or other poor countries.
@nexus1g you got it ass backwards. The F16 is a small, lightweight fighter weighing 18900lbs empty while the Su-27 is huge and heavy at 36500lbs empty.
@MrTurdFurgerson The F-16 is not a lightweight fighter. Small compared to Su's or even an F-15 sure, but it's a heavily armored multirole fighter designed primarily for ground strikes. The F-15 and F-22 are America's lightly armored air superiority fighters. They're larger for speed and maneuverability, but a .50 cal can shred them to pieces.
the su27 is ballerina in the sky. the f16 is an african killer bee. under rated but deadly.
planes do not win dogfights by themselves. every win is the result of a concerted effort involving many other players. AWACS surveillance, Satellites, superb avionics and weapons systems, ground control, pilot training, real combat experience and nerves
and remember: 'a mighty sword is useless in the hands of an idiot'
a couple of years ago during the war in former yugoslavia a dutch f-16 shot down a serbian mig-29 a plain wich in my opinion is superior to the su-27.
You fail to tell the whole story! Those Mig's were in deplorable condition and were barely air worthy. One of the Migs had to land due to mechanical failure. Some of the Migs didn't even have their radars operational. After all, Yugoslavia had been under all out embargo since 1992, not even medication could be imported, let alone fighter spare parts. Those Serbian pilots were brave men who went up to meet the enemy knowing their aircraft were flying coffins!
it is even not funny... and they are in different "weight category"... f-16 didn't have even a chance... su-27 is a "aircraft of air superioty"... same class that f-15 stike eagle... and of course su-27 have a much better electronic than f-16...
Well I have read about the Mig 29 and I am less than impressed. The Indian government has come to the conclusion the Mig 29 suffers from structural design falls. . . That's not what I would call an aerodynamical masterpiece. I can't say I have found any evidence that they Mig 29 have ever been a match for the F-15 or F-16.
One SU 27 can go against 10 F16 and win. There is no chance that F 16 could win against any SU 27 or MIG 29. In Serbia one MIG 29 was fly against 22 NATO F16s and other planes.
@mikeplay007 You are living in La La land, no Mig 29 has ever shot down an F-16. And what is an SU 27 but a glorified Mig 29? Your comments smack of foolish nationalistic bravado.
@TheLindsman68 Go to wikipwdia and read about Mig 29. You are living in propaganda world and you have no idea about planes. F16 is cheap, stupid joke with comparrison Mig 29. If any MIG 29s was shot down, it was always 4-5 US planes supported by AWACS shoting down one downgraded MIG 29. And I tell you what, bouth MIG 29 and SU 27 are aerodynamicall masterpiece. Maybe if you would educate your self in this area you gonna understand stupidity of your comment.
Regarding Justin Beaver, you don't want to know. Also, guns guns guns or collision. Both pilots die but the SU-27 is fewer in numbers and more expensive. And pulse doppler can detect it. It's radar. The more it sees the better. Also if the F-16 is locked on, then the SU-27 is double screwed. The F-16 is small wit ha large powerplant and has great acceleration.
@stalingradComando I mean at the time of the dogfight. I know that it has HMD but for example in training dogfights Bulgarian pilots of the Fulcrum weren't able to use them because there weren't R73 simulators working properly with the HMD.
fucking ate american miitaty , usa has bought su 27 of ukraine , ukraine are dickheads , and when venzueal wanted to seel f16 to iran usa woudnt allow it , it fucking sucks
4. I have a distinct feeling that you are referring to the older Su 7 and the Indo-Pak '71 war...though I may be mistaken. It was in that war that quite a few Su 7s were downed-nearly match up to your figures.
5. Personally, the newest f-16s with AESA radar would be a tough nut to crack for older sukhois (circa 1980s and early 90s) especially at BVR but at dog fighting range, sukhois old or new would, in the hands of an experienced pilot will out gun, out turn and out run an F-16 any day.
1. India does not have Su 27..They have Su 30 MKIs
2.F 16s have never directly confronted Su 27s in any sort of war...no opportunity has arosen yet...though they may have been on opposing sides in friendly military/ airforce exercises. So I do not understand where and when the 'shootings" occourred.
3. Don't make fun of the Pakistani Army. They are a professional force. If they would have shot down so many Indian "Su 27s(sic)", it would have been all over the news by now.
I can guarantee this is bullcrap, before the Luftwaffe got rid their MiG-29s, they put them up against NATO F-16s, the MiGs winning in almost every single dogfight. Bearing in mind the SU is a bigger, more powerful MiG-29 with a more powerful radio, I cannot possibly imagine a F-16 winning, and I am from the UK so I am hardly biased against NATO. I am sure the SUs would win.
@wyzarme The SUs would win in long range combat or BVR, but the F-16 kicks ass in dogfights, what it was built to do and it would easily win in a turning fight without breaking a sweat.
the F16 can not reach attack angles higher than 25 degrees. Su27 can do thrice that much. Su27 has a better turning rate and off course it`s much more maneuvrable at low speeds
Have you ever seen an F16 performing a Cobra manuever? Of course no. It can`t because of the maximum AOA limitation. An Su27 can get behind the tail and destroy a pursuing F16 in just 34 sec thanks to the Cobra manuever
Victor Pugachev archived a turning rate of 36 deg/sec with his Su27. Amazing, isn`t it? That`s double the turing rate of the F16
Not only but Su27 also beats the F16 in acceleration, speed and rate of climb
@stalingradComando Oh big deal. The cobra. The worlds dumbest manuver. Who cares if an aircraft can do it? It does nothing. If an F-16 was on the tail of an SU-27 and it did a cobra. Boom. Splash 1. It's for show.
You`re just jealous because our fighters can perform it and yours can`t. You wouldn`t say the same thing if it was the the F16 the one who could and the Su27 the one who couldn`t
Your compatriots were so impressed when Victor Pugachev performed the Cobra that they wanted their next gen. F22 to be able to perform it
By the way the purpose of the Cobra is not only to get behind the pursuing fighter. it can be used to become temporarily invisible on enemy radar, dodge missiles
@stalingradComando it exposes MORE surface area to radar. And no, if the F-16 could do it i wouldn't care. Yes, i give you credit in the fact that it displays what your fighters are capable of, but no more than that. The Su27 can do it because it has the ability to disengage their g and angle of attack limiter. The F-16 does not have that function. And, don't say i'm jealous. You are very intellegent and clearly know a lot, but saying that makes you sound as unintellegent as a Justin Beaver fan.
Not really. Pulse-doppler radars can not detect targets whose speed is zero or near zero. For a few seconds the Su27 can completly disappear from the enemy`s radar and of course deny it to fire any radar directed weapon
The F-22 can surpass the Cobra in every way. And by the way? The T-50 Pak-Fa isn't that much of a good fighter. It is nearly twice the size of the F-22 and it is much less maneuverable. Even the F-16, up close, could own the Pak-Fa without a problem. And that super "Cobra Maneuver?" Good! Mid air target! :P
You got the whole thing wrong. It`s the PAK FA which is much more maneuvrable than F22 and 18,9m x2 does not equal 19,8m. That plus the fact that PAK FA can pull up to +11g`s (2 more than F22 and F16) and it has multi-axis thrust vectoring
Pulse doppler radars can not detect air targets that don`t move or move very slowly
Germany did not give up their Mig29`s because F16 is better. Actually german Mig29 pilots beated USAF F16`s every time in simulated dogfights
@stalingradComando Actually yes the F-16 has done the cobra and better than the MIG's and the Su's. Look up the F-16 MATV. The MATV was able to do helicopter J-turns, something the MIG and Su's with TVC can not do. If the USAF put the thrust vectoring on the F-16 and F-15, like on the MATV and the Active we would not be discussing anything the Russians can do aerodynamically in the air because both the F-15 Active and F-16 MATV were superior in ability with TVC.
@wyzarme No, they would not. Reason being is that the su-27 is a piece of shit. The F-16 is much more newer and better in its dogfighting capabilties.
@wyzarme And, the Falcon was designed for close up dogfights. It was basically a cheap interceptor. Nothing much. :P And sure, the MiG-29 was a great fighter, but how about the encounter with two Libyan MiG-29s vs their American counterparts? F-15s?
@wyzarme The F-16 can keep pace with a Mig 29. The F-16 can outmanuver an F-15. Why would the Luftwaffe give up their 29's if they're better? Generally I don't belive you.
@wyzarme. German pilots who flew the Mig-29 were some of the most experienced pilots in the world. The American pilots they faced were amateurs compared to the German pilots. It has nothing to do with the aircraft the pilots were flying. F-16 and Mig-29 were evenly matched. The amateur American pilots wanted to learn lessons while the experienced German pilots wanted to maintain their skill.
@wyzarme I say your statment is bullshit. The Mig29 never has and never will be a better air craft than the F-16. They never won in almost every single dog fight in fact the Air Force's F-16's and the Navy's F-18's where far superior aircrafts. Russian aircrafts are overrated.
@vfIskullangel Russian air craft are overrated? its the other way around my friend Nato air craft are overrated , THe F-16 and F-18 might be better than the mig-29A or B , but against the S SMT , M , K , UB which are upgraded versions of the MiG will destroy any F-16 or F18 not to mention even the A model is far more maneuverable that most 4 gen nato planes
@Elfulcrum777 They are overrated. People keep acting like they will out perform american fighters yet American fighters hold records that will be unmatched.
@vfIskullangel and Nato biased people keep saying that American fighters will out perform all others , its all speculation and bullshit , i judge according to the design and stats of the air craft like hte mig-29SMT has a better rate of climb maneuverability and weapon systems than the F18 not to mention equally powerful radar
@Elfulcrum777 We have the trackrecord to prove that our American fighters are great. How about those russian aircrafts? They didn't do so well in the Gulf.
@vfIskullangel well of course they didn't they had poorly trained pilots , and besides a mig-25 foxbat downed an F-18 with a long range R-40 missile , another thing it really depends greatly on the operator not so much the machine , even an old BF-109 can be deadly if put in the right hands , i mean look at the falklands war , Argentine A4 sky hawks and Mirage 3 60's era planes downed several modern British war ships with simple free fall bombs and a few EXOCET missile they also 4 harrier down
@vfIskullangel And besides , in a recent series of mock dogfights between USAF F-15;s and F-16;s against Indian air force SU-30MKI's the Indians won 99 % of the mock fights,
@Elfulcrum777 aint you realize that the USAF prohibit the BVR mode in the F-15? beside those F-16, F-15 were produce during the early 90. mean while the MKI just appear recently. I can't wait for the F-15 SE gona kick some ass.
@Elfulcrum777 ha? IS T-50 is a full production yet? NO right? while the F-22 flying in the sky already. beside the Russian claim that Mig-29 and Su-27 were suppose to b better than the F-16 and F-15. F-15 record claim 104-0 1-1 air to air combat kill and 72-0 for the F-16. While russian superior Mig-29 got blow out the sky like paper plane. Just accept the facts you little ignorant.
@truonghthe problem was those were old downgraded versions meant for the third world countries you fought against , a fully Equipped Russian Mig-29 or SU-27 with Russian pilots at the controls have never fought USAF Fighters , so that little record The F-15 has is completely irrelevant to which air craft is designed and built better , and besides most of those kills were by the Israelis who i respect for having to fight off Crazy Islamic Arabs so many times not by USAF.
@Elfulcrum777 you know you can't argue by talking out from your ass. just give me any fact that the mig-29 and the Su-27 have a combat record close to its counter part. BTW those Arabs did kicked Russia ass during the invasion of Afhgan.
@Elfulcrum777 You are completely ignorant if you think that the F-15's record is irrelevant. The fact remains that the teen fighters have owned the russian aircraft in all aspects of air to air combat. This is the only excuse you hear from people who say the F-15 and F-16 suck. The fact remains that they put the birds in the air thinking they could hand the US. If they thought otherwise those birds would have stayed on the ground. Instead the MIG-29's were scrap that fell from the sky.
@BBEEAANN1 I didn't say F-15 and F-16 suck , i am just saying that what they achieved was nothing extraordinary merely turkey shoots it is war those MIGS had to get in the air they weren't going to be cowards even if they were sent basically to their deaths. , besides German MIG-29 has owned F-15 and F-16 in mock dogfights hundreds of times , its not the plane its the situation of the nation Financially , pilot skill and in terms of numbers US had every advantage in Kosovo nothing heroic
@Elfulcrum777 Just as the F-15 and F-16 have owned the MIG-29 in combat. The last redflag excercise the SU-27 got raped by the F-15. mock excercises mean nothing, the fact remains the F-15 has flown against aircraft that were not second rate and got demolished by them. The record means it is the greatest fighter to ever fly the skies and that is why other countries dont go against it.
@BBEEAANN1 wtf are you talking about ? have you never heard of the mock dogfights between USAF and the Luftwaffe? the Germans with their MIG-29 won 90 of the 100 mock fights, further more USAF mock dogfights against Indian SU-30 and MIG-29 yielded the same result with India winning most of the combats you are completely ignorant
@Elfulcrum777 I love how you say nothing heroic. If those planes were so run down they would not even have gone into the air. I do not believe those planes were in the condition that was stated because if they were they would not have lifted off the ground. Utter Russian propaganda to state that the F-15 and F-16 are not the aircrafts that they are.
@BBEEAANN1 Even one of your oh so powerful F-22 was "shot down" in a mock dogfight with the Greek Hellenic air force Mirage 2000 they do won most of the mock fights the only reason why planes like the F-15 have such a clean record in the USAF is because you only attack weaker nations like Iraq , id like to see you go up against Iran or North Korea than you could say whether you are the best or not, pfft Americans that's all you do take over other peoples shit claiming to be in the name of peace
@BBEEAANN1 The F-22 a fifth gen fighter well no wonder that thing is pretty much an "invisible" robot that the pilot simply tells what to do SU-227? hm never heard of that one is that a hard drive for a computer? India's main air superiority fighter is the SU-30MKI and it has beaten the F-15 and F-16 countless times even their MIG's won against USAF , in short are US is not the best
@Elfulcrum777 The Su-30MKI got raped in the last RedFlag and there are tons of videos showing the briefing about it with the USAF going over the excercise. The Indians got run over in the last RedFlag and was stated that they left embarassed because they were trying to use TVC in dogfights and they were shotdown constantly using it.
@Elfulcrum777 You sir are ignorant about the last RedFlag in which there are vid's of an USAF briefing on where the Indians in the Su-30's got raped by the F-15 trying to use TVC in dogfighting. The kill ratio for the F-22 in that excercise, using inexperienced pilots was 247 kills to 2 losses with the F-22. The F-22's were being flown by pilots that had less than 200 hours in the F-22. Iran would get raped if the US went after them, they got raped by Iraq and you think the USAF wont win lmao
@BBEEAANN1 In the same briefing the same guy admitted Su-30 has better sustained turn rate (23-24 deg) than F-15 or F-16 but not better than F-22 (28 deg). The problem was the Indian pilots' overuse of TVC. They wasted all their energy by doing cobras etc and got hunted. Dogfighting is not only about turning quick, its also about conserving the energy of the aircraft. And TVC is not for wasting energy, its for maneuvering while you have already lost your energy.
@AndraxxusNephilem that is completely correct but, this brings up a point about the Su-30MKI's supposed superiority. If the Su's were resorting to the TVC to try and outurn the F-15's this has to show that the F-15 was hanging with the Su's quite well. In the end it will come down to the pilot and not the aircraft
@BBEEAANN1 I don't believe Indians HAD to use TVC to match F-15s. A few years ago Su-30MKs without TVCs had beaten F-15 badly. MKI's have no cons compared to MKs. The indians simply don't know how to use TVC, like you said it will always come down to pilot. I won't go into details, but, MKIs TVC is too much dependent on pilot, because half of the stick motion fully controls elevators etc, rest controls TVC. A rookie pilot in an MKI can deflect its nozzles while at mach 2 if he is idiot enough.
@AndraxxusNephilem yes in the indian excercise with the indians the F-15's were being flown by 80% unseasoned pilots and 20% seasoned pilots. The F-15 also was outnumbered 3:1 and could not use its BVR. We all know the excercise but, this Redflag was different because those pilots learned how to fly against the Su-30 and did a fine job and beating them handily. The Indians were emberassed at the excercise. They are great pilots and some of the best in the world, it will boil down to the pilot.
@AndraxxusNephilem Btw you can watch the briefing on the last Redflag where the USAF spokesperson taking question states that the Su-30 MKI's were using TVC and that is how they got beat so badly.
@BBEEAANN1 why do you keep saying rape? you are like obsessed with rape.. dear god in fact half if not all your comments have the word rape in it, nobody got raped a bigger army just smashed a smaller army simple as that. that's what USA has been doing in the last few decades, if there was ever a war between Russia and USA that didn't obliterate the entire planet with nukes, the 1,000 T-50 Pak FA would " rape" the 153 F-22 while the MIG-35 and Su-35 would deal with the F-15
@Elfulcrum777 I used the term rape twice, why are you so touchy? The Pak-Fa wont do anything but get scrapped because of its huge radar cross section. The US missles are now designed to go after the shape of the plane so, manueverability really isnt going to do you much. With the speeds of the missles increasing way beyond the speed of the aircraft BVR is where the fight is going to be won and lost. The Pak-Fa just saw its first maiden flight, it isnt going into service for the next 5-8 yearslol
@BBEEAANN1 plus do you think the pak fa's AESA radar is second rate? or the ECM ineffective? even the american show dogfights says modern russian fighters would Jam missiled like Aim-120D plus AMMRAAMS have been evaded by FAULTY aircraft in the past like in Kosovo
@BBEEAANN1 You seriously underestimate Russian tech a war between the US and Russia woulnt bw so one sided as you think it would be, and that is if both nations didnt immediately go nuclear Russia has wy more nukes than America
@Elfulcrum777 And this means what? That it isnt going to destroy whatever it faces? You better hope the Aurora isnt a fighter and just a spy plane lol.
@BBEEAANN1 and you better pray your USA dosnt go to war with a real army like Russia or China you will have your asses handed to you on a plate with gravy and salad☆ΰΫά
@Elfulcrum777 Yeah, you keep thinking that. Russian planes are flying against our 40-50 year old equipment and getting rolled, and you think they can handle the stuff that the US has already going behind closed doors? Why do you think Russia and China are still trying to sell military secrets still? That would because the US equipement is garbage right?
@BBEEAANN1 I didn't say US equipment is garbage there is more to what i am saying than you think, what i say is that it is not as unbeatable as you say it is, Russian technology is catching up and has caught up in many ways, obviously, btw i don't know what 40, or 50 year old equipment you speak of, the F-15 and MIG-29 came out roughly int he same year along with the Su-27 and F-16, the reason why the F-15 was ahead of the mig was soviet finances at the time were very very bad unlike USA
@Elfulcrum777 actually i made a mistake they F-15 is a couple years older, but only like 3 or 4 than the MIG-29. anyways it wasn't old technology that shot down those faulty and downgraded MIGS
@Elfulcrum777 the F-15's first flight was 1972 the Su-27 was in 1977. 5 years is a long time on the F-15. The MiG-29 was also first flown in 1977. If you add up the years the F-15 is almost 50 years old. The US has not had to build a new fighter for that long, that says alot about where the Russians were compared to the Americans since the F-15 has reigned supreme in the air for that long. Excuse me but, in the 80's was the cold war and the build up of finances for Russia were fine then
@BBEEAANN1 the cold war was through the late 1950's and well through to the 70's in 1980's the soviet union began to crumble and finally fell in 85, those years that the MIG-29A and Su-27 came out the economy was suffering a depression, and those migs the F-15 shot down were faulty and downgraded and that is the last time i argue about that i don't give care what bullshit you come up with
@Elfulcrum777 That would mean the Su-27 had its funding since it flew in 1977. The TVC technology was not on the bird and it was not developed. The fact remains there is no record of TVC used on any Su-27 in that period, end of story. Your made up illusion it was is just that. The US were teh first to use TVC on aircraft and that was in 87' with the HARV. The MATV engine that Russia copied was flown in 91', many years before the Russians were flying the OVT.
@BBEEAANN1 the New prototype the T-10S was an almost complete remake which included many structural changed and changed in the controls and the addition of more powerful Al-31F to power the T-10S , the Flanker B entered production in 1985, things like TVC had already been tested but the Russians didn't see any real benefit of it on the Su-27 at the time and it was not pursued until later years
@Elfulcrum777 Please give me a solid source showing that the Su-27 entered service with TVC. I have looked and done plenty of research on who was flying with TVC first and it was the HARV. There is no, none, nodda, no data showing the Russians had TVC before flight demos with the OVT in airshows. I can give them, since it was in airshows that they had it late 90's but, before this they had nothing. All the MiG-29's that they sold, not offered on the aircraft until now. Please show the data.
@BBEEAANN1 please pay attention for fucks sake and read , i said TVC was experimented on ONE! Su-27 in 1980 it didn't enter service with TVC dumb-ass also you said the Su-27 didn't exist until the late 1980s when the first prototype was being made in the 1960's and already featured a fly by wire system long before America they had the Flanker in development when the US was still using F4 Phantoms.. and f105 thunder-chiefs
@Elfulcrum777 I have payed attention, obviously you have no sources so you are talking out your ass. Please show me the source, till you do all you have is your nonsence backed up with nothing the Russians have down on film or paper to back up your nonsence. What do you think the HARV, Active and MATV were? There were experimental and they were documented. Russia documents everything it does and there is no data showing they had TVC. Sorry to tell you but the US was the one to develop it.
@BBEEAANN1 No data and since we began talking about TVC, I went back to my old research and found out the actual first experiments with 2D TVC were done on the F-15 in 1977. Langley began research into 2D in the early 70's and the research continued from their into the 90's. I even looked up this info on Wiki and the info is there. wikipedia org/wiki/F-15_ACTIVE look under the Design and development section of the page. You will find the info you need to go look up other sources.
@BBEEAANN1 well since we are counting Wikipedia as a valid source now why don't you just go look up Sukhoi Su-27 and you will see that it mentions thrust vectoring being experimented on an early version and later used on the Su-30. anyways even if America did try TVC first (which i doubt) it does not matter because both Russian fighters and the F-22 have TVC and having it does guarantee victory so this whole argument is irrelevant to who is better btw most of my info is not from Wikipedia..
@Elfulcrum777 You are the one not paying attention. The HARV, MATV, and Active were all experimental and all documented on paper and film. You have no documentation to back up your supposed claims and until then it didnt happen. Even if your supposed claims are true, which they arent, the US was doing 2D TVC experiments on engines for the F-15 as early as the early 70's. This would put the US 15 years ahead of Russian if they actually did it on the Su-27 which, they didnt.
@Elfulcrum777 There is plenty of film of the flankers first flight during this time and not one of the videos shows TVC, you are in illusion and not in reality. Please show me one source, just one. I spent almost an hour and a half looking up what you stated because I had gone over the data about 3 years about in debate. The first country to fly with TVC is the HARV in 87'.
@BBEEAANN1 you are the one who is delusional the first one to fly was not equipped with TVC i already said it was tested on another modified Flanker B before the official unavailing of the air plane it was only tested on 1 ONE but was not pursued until later on maybe you should wake up and realize i am right and you are wrong
@Elfulcrum777 Please show me a source, one source is all I ask. All you do is flap on about this supposed TVC and you have no data to back up your claims. It is good you are a fan of Russian aircraft but, in reality all the Russians do is take what the US designs and modify it so they dont have to do so much R&D. This is known fact in the cold war and it is fact that the 3D TVC on the OVT and the Su-30 is a complete copy of the MATV. Once again name a source to prove what you state
@BBEEAANN1 well i cant do that on the comments , Wikipedia says it happened and so several other sites , TVC was experimented on one Su-27 and later used on the Su-30MK and the experimental Su-37 don't believe me Google Sukoi su-27 real story it shows the flankers development history and it was being developed long before the F-15
@Elfulcrum777 Wikipedia does not say it happened and Wikipedia is not a valid source. Wikipedia is a joke because anyone, including you can put the data up on its site. The development phase of the aircraft on Wiki does not include anything with TVC until later when the aircraft was upgraded to the Su-30.. There are no Russian sources on film or in paper showing the development of TVC on any aircraft used for combat. So please show me your source. It is obvious you dont have one so stop....
it seems like you are choosing to ignore that Russia pioneered the invention of the Fly by wire system, you say they're tech is so crappy yet look at the many achievements they have made, first VTOL aircraft , first fly by wire system , first to use the helmet mounted target designation system, not to mention first to go to space. thrust vector control has actually been researched on rockets since the 1930's by Konstantian Tsiolkovsky, long before America. btw the Nazis also researched this
@Elfulcrum777 Who developed the Harrier, the Russians? No they did not develop the Harrier and it was the first VTOL aircraft in development and service. The Yak-141 is a copy of it. Fly by wire was done by both the Russians and the US at the same time, no one can truly say who pioneered the system. Your correct the USSR was the first in space but, not to the moon. The USSR tried to be the first to reach Venus and multiple planets with vehicles and failed, the US beat them to most of them.
@BBEEAANN1 I only said they were the first in space to launch a satellite and the first to space walk (i didn't say that exactly but it is what i meant) i didn't say they got to the moon or Venus US got their first no denying that
@Elfulcrum777 the genius who changed the modern world the most was Nikolai Tesla, he was an Austrian who became an American. If I admire anyone for their genius it is him. The reason we have radar of any kind is because of his research. Rocket TVC and TVC on a plane are 2 totally differnet things, you know this. There is no proof the USSR flew the Su-27 with TVC in production or before the OVT past 2000. This is why I state the Russians had it in the late 90's .
@BBEEAANN1 do you forget the F-35? it is almost an exact copy ( in terms of flight characteristics) as the Yak-141 , Lockheed almost begged the Yakovlev corporation to help them in designing the thrust vectoring V-TOL and STOL F-35 using the prints from the YAK-141 who's copying who?
@Elfulcrum777 one variant of the F-35 uses the engines of the YAK-141 because the US bought the designs from Russia. Man talking to you can be annoying at times when you dont know the history of the aircraft you are discussing. Lockheed didnt beg for anything, they simply bought the plans. Man you really need to research stuff before you start popping off about it:/
@Elfulcrum777 other than the engine design on the harrier variant of the F-35 there are no other simularities to the YAK-141. The Russians didnt even use the aircraft so, I dont know why the US would bother to design a variant with VTOL, it is pointless in my opinion. The A-10 is all the close cover our troops need. That plane is a flying tank.
@BBEEAANN1 Now that i agree with the A-10 is a much better plane for covering ground troops, that is as long as there are no fighters to shoot it down, but that's another story, the F-35 is actually better equipped for SEAD missions it even states in Wikipedia that it was designed to take out SAM's
@BBEEAANN1 but yeah the new Russian planes are some of the best regardless of what you say ,,and to be honest i hate USA its an empire that thinks they run the world... and i for one will never EVER move there or want to immigrate there NEVER! i am happy in my nice sunny spot i live in on Earth and i hope it will be free of US oppression some day... damn people murdering , law imposing, retinal scanning, 666 marking , woman stealing assholes! i bid you farewell ! or don't what do i care...
@Elfulcrum777 The people behind the US government are the problem, not the American people who dont want our miliatary in other countries. You are aware that the US government does not=the American citizen anymore right? The people behind the US government are using the US military as its pawn. The real struggle now, between Russia, China and the Anglo American Empire which, includes the US and Britian, is who will run the one world government that is being called for.
@Elfulcrum777 The American people are stating the same thing that others are stating, why are we in that country when it is obvious there were no WMD's in Iraq? How did the twin towers fall over when jet fuel cannot cause steal to melt or become molten like in a foundry? It is obvious the US government is behind attacks in its own country since building 7 fell over and nothing hit it. China and Russia have the worst atrocities against humanity in the last 100 years. The British government...
@Elfulcrum777 done plenty of atrocities itself. There isnt one government of the face of the planet that hasnt in one form or another. And dong bring up sweeden. that country allowed plenty of war criminals to hide in their country and that is a crime in itself. Every nationality on the face of the planet has done wrong to someone, some where. You dont lump the whole society in the same batch because not all are guilty of the crimes.
The Su-27 Zhuk-me radar has a 240km detection range and 185KM tracking/engagement range which is further than the F-15s APG-65 radar plus it could carry extreme range missiles like the R-33, Russian aircraft are not as crappy as you think they are
@Elfulcrum777 And yes since they are giving out the specs of the prototype this is what is actually on the aircraft, ridiculous. It is good that the first flight of the aircraft has happened but, they have a ton of things still to do before it goes into production. I already gave you the fact the Su-27 took 7 years to get into service after its maiden flight, the PAK-FA is more complex and is going to take longer. The F-22 first flew in 97' and didnt see a runwway till 2005. Wake up
@Elfulcrum777 the Su-47 will never enter service, it was cancelled bigtimes. The T-50 might enter service fairly soon. The Su-47 was meant to be a long range supersonic interceptor jet. The T-50 however was decided to be the only choice. Face it, the Su-47 isn't going to happen. The Su-47 has been around since the 80's, there's a reason why it hasn't entered service yet.
@wellerocks actually.. the Su-47 is planned to be modernized and produced in the near future for now it has served as baseline for the development of fifth generation air craft well at least that is what i have read
@Elfulcrum777 btw the Russian Economy died in the early late 89 early 90 not in 85'. This is when the Berlin wall came down because Russia had finally run out of money trying to keep up with the US in the arms race. In thte end it is all for nothing because the idiots behind the scenes are pushing for world government and Russia, the US and every other country is being imploded economically so they can usher that nonsence in, forcing it on all of us.
O Brasil tem potencial financeiro para construir qualquer aeronave civil ou militar, mas se os seus líderes não focem tão corruptos.
ansleilson1 2 weeks ago
@vfkskullanger, what u talking about? russians built everything to counter the americans lol. Plus Americans figher pilots never faced the russians , it was always the poorly trained Iraqis or other poor countries.
816nightmare 1 month ago
The F-16 would own anything from Russia, Nuff said.
vfIskullangel 2 months ago
This is comparing apples and oranges. The Su-27 is a light air superiority fighter while the F-16 is a heavy multirole fighter.
nexus1g 3 months ago
@nexus1g you got it ass backwards. The F16 is a small, lightweight fighter weighing 18900lbs empty while the Su-27 is huge and heavy at 36500lbs empty.
MrTurdFurgerson 1 month ago
@MrTurdFurgerson The F-16 is not a lightweight fighter. Small compared to Su's or even an F-15 sure, but it's a heavily armored multirole fighter designed primarily for ground strikes. The F-15 and F-22 are America's lightly armored air superiority fighters. They're larger for speed and maneuverability, but a .50 cal can shred them to pieces.
nexus1g 1 month ago
Why is the song is in Japanese...? I thought Taiwanese ppl have their own serious music..like jay chou
jack99889988 4 months ago
great song
kunz82414 5 months ago
Just drop spoon IN IT JET ENGINE SEE WHAT HAPPEN
MafiaGENGTEAM1970 7 months ago
@MafiaGENGTEAM1970 FOD
KucingHomoMalaysial 6 months ago
the su27 is ballerina in the sky. the f16 is an african killer bee. under rated but deadly.
planes do not win dogfights by themselves. every win is the result of a concerted effort involving many other players. AWACS surveillance, Satellites, superb avionics and weapons systems, ground control, pilot training, real combat experience and nerves
and remember: 'a mighty sword is useless in the hands of an idiot'
roycosing 8 months ago
WHo wins ?
ThePunnatat 8 months ago
a couple of years ago during the war in former yugoslavia a dutch f-16 shot down a serbian mig-29 a plain wich in my opinion is superior to the su-27.
967marc 10 months ago
You fail to tell the whole story! Those Mig's were in deplorable condition and were barely air worthy. One of the Migs had to land due to mechanical failure. Some of the Migs didn't even have their radars operational. After all, Yugoslavia had been under all out embargo since 1992, not even medication could be imported, let alone fighter spare parts. Those Serbian pilots were brave men who went up to meet the enemy knowing their aircraft were flying coffins!
tropickman 10 months ago
u fail.. u show other airplanes... like su 30 etc..
SMJeOma 10 months ago
the music sux
twentyfivenhot 11 months ago
Seriously somebody show me proof that a mig 29/su-27 has ever shot down a F-15/16 in a dogfight.....ever
armoredcar79 1 year ago
@armoredcar79 Awww, you need your mommy to soothe your aching ego? Poor baby.
HayabusaGrrrl 11 months ago
@armoredcar79 I have the wing of a F-16 in my closet.
Stratigoz 11 months ago
it is even not funny... and they are in different "weight category"... f-16 didn't have even a chance... su-27 is a "aircraft of air superioty"... same class that f-15 stike eagle... and of course su-27 have a much better electronic than f-16...
vasysemen 1 year ago
i love them both for there beuti and for there pawer but su-27 is better i think
grktu 1 year ago
I doubt the su-27 would win....
No way.
Mu5clehead 1 year ago
1:03 e2 hawkeye :D i got one in 1:32 scale :P
brmbOOc 1 year ago
what that fuck ,,,,, music stupid
leotaker29 1 year ago
Well I have read about the Mig 29 and I am less than impressed. The Indian government has come to the conclusion the Mig 29 suffers from structural design falls. . . That's not what I would call an aerodynamical masterpiece. I can't say I have found any evidence that they Mig 29 have ever been a match for the F-15 or F-16.
TheLindsman68 1 year ago
One SU 27 can go against 10 F16 and win. There is no chance that F 16 could win against any SU 27 or MIG 29. In Serbia one MIG 29 was fly against 22 NATO F16s and other planes.
mikeplay007 1 year ago
@mikeplay007 depends on the scenario. F-16's with Awacs and Amraam can defeat an SU-27. It's a great plane but not immune to a good pilot.
raythedodger 1 year ago
@mikeplay007 You are living in La La land, no Mig 29 has ever shot down an F-16. And what is an SU 27 but a glorified Mig 29? Your comments smack of foolish nationalistic bravado.
TheLindsman68 1 year ago 2
@TheLindsman68 Go to wikipwdia and read about Mig 29. You are living in propaganda world and you have no idea about planes. F16 is cheap, stupid joke with comparrison Mig 29. If any MIG 29s was shot down, it was always 4-5 US planes supported by AWACS shoting down one downgraded MIG 29. And I tell you what, bouth MIG 29 and SU 27 are aerodynamicall masterpiece. Maybe if you would educate your self in this area you gonna understand stupidity of your comment.
mikeplay007 1 year ago
@mikeplay007 Okay Mr "Im a Aerospace Engineer"
TheRealTaco87 9 months ago
which song is this
Guevara001 1 year ago
that was unfair, its out-modeled, try f22 :D
thetrialshot 1 year ago
Su-27 would have won in real life
StephanieOrtega777 1 year ago
The music reminds me of Oompa Loompas lol
FMXPRO199 1 year ago
space race: rusian ut a first satelite, man and women in space.
political: americans better to start learning chines
economic: once they no how to speak chines it means they are allready fucked
influence: does not make sense at this point
air superiority: ANTONOV thr bigest plane in the world...Su 27 most snicki one
future: we will not understand your chines and you will not understand our russian
solarpanels3 1 year ago
@solarpanels3 you misspelled Chinese....
;)
ClarksonsinUSA 1 year ago
No craft is superior in this fight, electronics, missiles and pilots are evenly matched.
Actually, Su-27 is not a Dogfight airplane. Su-27 is avoiding that kind of fight and keeps his distance to shoot radar guided Air-to-Air missiles.
Sithlordxxxx 1 year ago
what's the name of this song?it sounds good!
j94003 1 year ago
american dreams ha ha ha
vectoranime123 1 year ago
Regarding Justin Beaver, you don't want to know. Also, guns guns guns or collision. Both pilots die but the SU-27 is fewer in numbers and more expensive. And pulse doppler can detect it. It's radar. The more it sees the better. Also if the F-16 is locked on, then the SU-27 is double screwed. The F-16 is small wit ha large powerplant and has great acceleration.
Airrage88 1 year ago
This is bull though. This footage was from another engagement. If Taiwan has ever fought with China, Taiwan would be blown up by now.
undertake782 1 year ago
If the Su had helmet mounted sight it would win without any problems...
mouzata 1 year ago
@mouzata
Every Flanker/Fulcrum version has helmet mounted displays. Actually they were the first operational fighter to use HMD`s
stalingradComando 1 year ago
@stalingradComando I mean at the time of the dogfight. I know that it has HMD but for example in training dogfights Bulgarian pilots of the Fulcrum weren't able to use them because there weren't R73 simulators working properly with the HMD.
mouzata 1 year ago
@mouzata
lack of HMD and lack of experience on how to properly use them is not the same thing
stalingradComando 1 year ago
Dude The Sukhoi Would Win!
baltosfan 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
What is the name of song plzz must reply me thanks!
786rocky99 1 year ago
What is the name of song plzz must reply me thanks!
786rocky99 1 year ago
haha america wins. again
lovatolover8201992 1 year ago
hey man awsome vid awsome.
Steven340able 1 year ago
plz what's the name of this song ? plssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss!
anass1989 1 year ago
@anass1989...Identity Crisis" by CaYOKO
senesco1024 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@anass1989 ...Identity Crisis" by CaYOKO
senesco1024 1 year ago
@anass1989 It's called "Identity Crisis" by future gpx cyber formula. It's Japanese.
vk45de 1 year ago
Excellent video splicing! - a proud Taiwanese patriot
RedFoxAce 1 year ago
fucking ate american miitaty , usa has bought su 27 of ukraine , ukraine are dickheads , and when venzueal wanted to seel f16 to iran usa woudnt allow it , it fucking sucks
smithyboi1000 1 year ago
it's interesting ~
human0327 1 year ago
wyzarme i hope our enemies flying those mig 29's think the same way you do. Will make the US airforces job that much easier .
fordfan25 1 year ago
that Korean or Japanese song is shit
solomon875 1 year ago
f-16 and sukahoi food these days anyway, to get a real match for an su 27 you'd need to go to f-18 level and above
marcofavav 1 year ago
4. I have a distinct feeling that you are referring to the older Su 7 and the Indo-Pak '71 war...though I may be mistaken. It was in that war that quite a few Su 7s were downed-nearly match up to your figures.
5. Personally, the newest f-16s with AESA radar would be a tough nut to crack for older sukhois (circa 1980s and early 90s) especially at BVR but at dog fighting range, sukhois old or new would, in the hands of an experienced pilot will out gun, out turn and out run an F-16 any day.
madcaprahin1234 1 year ago
@SuperAshahzad:
1. India does not have Su 27..They have Su 30 MKIs
2.F 16s have never directly confronted Su 27s in any sort of war...no opportunity has arosen yet...though they may have been on opposing sides in friendly military/ airforce exercises. So I do not understand where and when the 'shootings" occourred.
3. Don't make fun of the Pakistani Army. They are a professional force. If they would have shot down so many Indian "Su 27s(sic)", it would have been all over the news by now.
madcaprahin1234 1 year ago
I can guarantee this is bullcrap, before the Luftwaffe got rid their MiG-29s, they put them up against NATO F-16s, the MiGs winning in almost every single dogfight. Bearing in mind the SU is a bigger, more powerful MiG-29 with a more powerful radio, I cannot possibly imagine a F-16 winning, and I am from the UK so I am hardly biased against NATO. I am sure the SUs would win.
wyzarme 1 year ago 13
@wyzarme The SUs would win in long range combat or BVR, but the F-16 kicks ass in dogfights, what it was built to do and it would easily win in a turning fight without breaking a sweat.
Airrage88 1 year ago
@Airrage88 lets hope we will never find out
Sturmfalke010475 1 year ago 3
@Airrage88
the F16 can not reach attack angles higher than 25 degrees. Su27 can do thrice that much. Su27 has a better turning rate and off course it`s much more maneuvrable at low speeds
stalingradComando 1 year ago
@stalingradComando Where'd you get you info cause that's not even close.
Airrage88 1 year ago
@Airrage88
So tell me, what is it that I got wrong
stalingradComando 1 year ago
@stalingradComando zthe F-16 can take 9 g's. Same as the 27
Airrage88 1 year ago
@Airrage88
Have you ever seen an F16 performing a Cobra manuever? Of course no. It can`t because of the maximum AOA limitation. An Su27 can get behind the tail and destroy a pursuing F16 in just 34 sec thanks to the Cobra manuever
Victor Pugachev archived a turning rate of 36 deg/sec with his Su27. Amazing, isn`t it? That`s double the turing rate of the F16
Not only but Su27 also beats the F16 in acceleration, speed and rate of climb
stalingradComando 1 year ago
@stalingradComando Oh big deal. The cobra. The worlds dumbest manuver. Who cares if an aircraft can do it? It does nothing. If an F-16 was on the tail of an SU-27 and it did a cobra. Boom. Splash 1. It's for show.
Airrage88 1 year ago
@Airrage88
You`re just jealous because our fighters can perform it and yours can`t. You wouldn`t say the same thing if it was the the F16 the one who could and the Su27 the one who couldn`t
Your compatriots were so impressed when Victor Pugachev performed the Cobra that they wanted their next gen. F22 to be able to perform it
By the way the purpose of the Cobra is not only to get behind the pursuing fighter. it can be used to become temporarily invisible on enemy radar, dodge missiles
stalingradComando 1 year ago
@stalingradComando it exposes MORE surface area to radar. And no, if the F-16 could do it i wouldn't care. Yes, i give you credit in the fact that it displays what your fighters are capable of, but no more than that. The Su27 can do it because it has the ability to disengage their g and angle of attack limiter. The F-16 does not have that function. And, don't say i'm jealous. You are very intellegent and clearly know a lot, but saying that makes you sound as unintellegent as a Justin Beaver fan.
Airrage88 1 year ago
@Airrage88
Not really. Pulse-doppler radars can not detect targets whose speed is zero or near zero. For a few seconds the Su27 can completly disappear from the enemy`s radar and of course deny it to fire any radar directed weapon
Who the heck is Justin Beaver?
stalingradComando 1 year ago
@stalingradComando Yep, you're as less intelligent as Justin Beaver. :P
The F-22 can surpass the Cobra in every way. And by the way? The T-50 Pak-Fa isn't that much of a good fighter. It is nearly twice the size of the F-22 and it is much less maneuverable. Even the F-16, up close, could own the Pak-Fa without a problem. And that super "Cobra Maneuver?" Good! Mid air target! :P
Tyco200 1 year ago
@Tyco200
You got the whole thing wrong. It`s the PAK FA which is much more maneuvrable than F22 and 18,9m x2 does not equal 19,8m. That plus the fact that PAK FA can pull up to +11g`s (2 more than F22 and F16) and it has multi-axis thrust vectoring
Pulse doppler radars can not detect air targets that don`t move or move very slowly
Germany did not give up their Mig29`s because F16 is better. Actually german Mig29 pilots beated USAF F16`s every time in simulated dogfights
stalingradComando 1 year ago
@stalingradComando, F-16 pilots were handicap for not allowed to use their long range radars.
TheFalconryFan 1 year ago
@TheFalconryFan
It wouldn`t have made any difference. Radars don`t help you in dogfights as much as HMD`s doo. Face it: Mig29 is a better dogfighter than the F-16
stalingradComando 1 year ago
@stalingradComando Actually yes the F-16 has done the cobra and better than the MIG's and the Su's. Look up the F-16 MATV. The MATV was able to do helicopter J-turns, something the MIG and Su's with TVC can not do. If the USAF put the thrust vectoring on the F-16 and F-15, like on the MATV and the Active we would not be discussing anything the Russians can do aerodynamically in the air because both the F-15 Active and F-16 MATV were superior in ability with TVC.
BBEEAANN1 1 year ago
Completely support, I have a belief about both plane. F 16 excellent planes, but not in this case
nik7404 1 year ago
@wyzarme No, they would not. Reason being is that the su-27 is a piece of shit. The F-16 is much more newer and better in its dogfighting capabilties.
Redbatray 1 year ago
@wyzarme And, the Falcon was designed for close up dogfights. It was basically a cheap interceptor. Nothing much. :P And sure, the MiG-29 was a great fighter, but how about the encounter with two Libyan MiG-29s vs their American counterparts? F-15s?
Tyco200 1 year ago
@wyzarme The F-16 can keep pace with a Mig 29. The F-16 can outmanuver an F-15. Why would the Luftwaffe give up their 29's if they're better? Generally I don't belive you.
Airrage88 1 year ago
@wyzarme. German pilots who flew the Mig-29 were some of the most experienced pilots in the world. The American pilots they faced were amateurs compared to the German pilots. It has nothing to do with the aircraft the pilots were flying. F-16 and Mig-29 were evenly matched. The amateur American pilots wanted to learn lessons while the experienced German pilots wanted to maintain their skill.
raiden711 1 year ago
@wyzarme The official results wer mig 29 23-77 F-16. And those were first generation F-16s.
Vyppaaa11 1 year ago
@wyzarme I say your statment is bullshit. The Mig29 never has and never will be a better air craft than the F-16. They never won in almost every single dog fight in fact the Air Force's F-16's and the Navy's F-18's where far superior aircrafts. Russian aircrafts are overrated.
vfIskullangel 1 year ago
@vfIskullangel Russian air craft are overrated? its the other way around my friend Nato air craft are overrated , THe F-16 and F-18 might be better than the mig-29A or B , but against the S SMT , M , K , UB which are upgraded versions of the MiG will destroy any F-16 or F18 not to mention even the A model is far more maneuverable that most 4 gen nato planes
Elfulcrum777 1 year ago
@Elfulcrum777 They are overrated. People keep acting like they will out perform american fighters yet American fighters hold records that will be unmatched.
vfIskullangel 1 year ago
@vfIskullangel and Nato biased people keep saying that American fighters will out perform all others , its all speculation and bullshit , i judge according to the design and stats of the air craft like hte mig-29SMT has a better rate of climb maneuverability and weapon systems than the F18 not to mention equally powerful radar
Elfulcrum777 1 year ago
@Elfulcrum777 We have the trackrecord to prove that our American fighters are great. How about those russian aircrafts? They didn't do so well in the Gulf.
vfIskullangel 1 year ago
@vfIskullangel well of course they didn't they had poorly trained pilots , and besides a mig-25 foxbat downed an F-18 with a long range R-40 missile , another thing it really depends greatly on the operator not so much the machine , even an old BF-109 can be deadly if put in the right hands , i mean look at the falklands war , Argentine A4 sky hawks and Mirage 3 60's era planes downed several modern British war ships with simple free fall bombs and a few EXOCET missile they also 4 harrier down
Elfulcrum777 1 year ago
@vfIskullangel And besides , in a recent series of mock dogfights between USAF F-15;s and F-16;s against Indian air force SU-30MKI's the Indians won 99 % of the mock fights,
Elfulcrum777 1 year ago
@Elfulcrum777 aint you realize that the USAF prohibit the BVR mode in the F-15? beside those F-16, F-15 were produce during the early 90. mean while the MKI just appear recently. I can't wait for the F-15 SE gona kick some ass.
truonghthe 1 year ago
@truonghthe doesn't matter the T-50 will eat the F-15SE Alive and make F-22 pilots have to watch themselves
Elfulcrum777 1 year ago
@Elfulcrum777 ha? IS T-50 is a full production yet? NO right? while the F-22 flying in the sky already. beside the Russian claim that Mig-29 and Su-27 were suppose to b better than the F-16 and F-15. F-15 record claim 104-0 1-1 air to air combat kill and 72-0 for the F-16. While russian superior Mig-29 got blow out the sky like paper plane. Just accept the facts you little ignorant.
truonghthe 1 year ago
@truonghthe problem was those were old downgraded versions meant for the third world countries you fought against , a fully Equipped Russian Mig-29 or SU-27 with Russian pilots at the controls have never fought USAF Fighters , so that little record The F-15 has is completely irrelevant to which air craft is designed and built better , and besides most of those kills were by the Israelis who i respect for having to fight off Crazy Islamic Arabs so many times not by USAF.
Elfulcrum777 1 year ago
@Elfulcrum777 Wrong. The only MiG-29's shot down by F-15 were all by USAF.
OlderG0ds 1 year ago
@OlderG0ds yeah 9 Mig-29 and the a few Iraqui air force planes the rest of the F-15s kills were all done by the Israelis
Elfulcrum777 1 year ago
@Elfulcrum777 you know you can't argue by talking out from your ass. just give me any fact that the mig-29 and the Su-27 have a combat record close to its counter part. BTW those Arabs did kicked Russia ass during the invasion of Afhgan.
truonghthe 1 year ago
@truonghthe wtf are you talking about , Russia didn't even have to use their fighters against them they were all pummeled by SU-25 "frogfoot"
Elfulcrum777 1 year ago
@Elfulcrum777 You are completely ignorant if you think that the F-15's record is irrelevant. The fact remains that the teen fighters have owned the russian aircraft in all aspects of air to air combat. This is the only excuse you hear from people who say the F-15 and F-16 suck. The fact remains that they put the birds in the air thinking they could hand the US. If they thought otherwise those birds would have stayed on the ground. Instead the MIG-29's were scrap that fell from the sky.
BBEEAANN1 1 year ago
@BBEEAANN1 I didn't say F-15 and F-16 suck , i am just saying that what they achieved was nothing extraordinary merely turkey shoots it is war those MIGS had to get in the air they weren't going to be cowards even if they were sent basically to their deaths. , besides German MIG-29 has owned F-15 and F-16 in mock dogfights hundreds of times , its not the plane its the situation of the nation Financially , pilot skill and in terms of numbers US had every advantage in Kosovo nothing heroic
Elfulcrum777 1 year ago
@Elfulcrum777 Just as the F-15 and F-16 have owned the MIG-29 in combat. The last redflag excercise the SU-27 got raped by the F-15. mock excercises mean nothing, the fact remains the F-15 has flown against aircraft that were not second rate and got demolished by them. The record means it is the greatest fighter to ever fly the skies and that is why other countries dont go against it.
BBEEAANN1 1 year ago
@BBEEAANN1 wtf are you talking about ? have you never heard of the mock dogfights between USAF and the Luftwaffe? the Germans with their MIG-29 won 90 of the 100 mock fights, further more USAF mock dogfights against Indian SU-30 and MIG-29 yielded the same result with India winning most of the combats you are completely ignorant
Elfulcrum777 1 year ago
@Elfulcrum777 I love how you say nothing heroic. If those planes were so run down they would not even have gone into the air. I do not believe those planes were in the condition that was stated because if they were they would not have lifted off the ground. Utter Russian propaganda to state that the F-15 and F-16 are not the aircrafts that they are.
BBEEAANN1 1 year ago
Comment removed
Elfulcrum777 1 year ago
@BBEEAANN1 Even one of your oh so powerful F-22 was "shot down" in a mock dogfight with the Greek Hellenic air force Mirage 2000 they do won most of the mock fights the only reason why planes like the F-15 have such a clean record in the USAF is because you only attack weaker nations like Iraq , id like to see you go up against Iran or North Korea than you could say whether you are the best or not, pfft Americans that's all you do take over other peoples shit claiming to be in the name of peace
Elfulcrum777 1 year ago
Comment removed
BBEEAANN1 1 year ago
@BBEEAANN1 The F-22 a fifth gen fighter well no wonder that thing is pretty much an "invisible" robot that the pilot simply tells what to do SU-227? hm never heard of that one is that a hard drive for a computer? India's main air superiority fighter is the SU-30MKI and it has beaten the F-15 and F-16 countless times even their MIG's won against USAF , in short are US is not the best
Elfulcrum777 1 year ago
@Elfulcrum777 The Su-30MKI got raped in the last RedFlag and there are tons of videos showing the briefing about it with the USAF going over the excercise. The Indians got run over in the last RedFlag and was stated that they left embarassed because they were trying to use TVC in dogfights and they were shotdown constantly using it.
BBEEAANN1 1 year ago
@Elfulcrum777 You sir are ignorant about the last RedFlag in which there are vid's of an USAF briefing on where the Indians in the Su-30's got raped by the F-15 trying to use TVC in dogfighting. The kill ratio for the F-22 in that excercise, using inexperienced pilots was 247 kills to 2 losses with the F-22. The F-22's were being flown by pilots that had less than 200 hours in the F-22. Iran would get raped if the US went after them, they got raped by Iraq and you think the USAF wont win lmao
BBEEAANN1 1 year ago 2
@BBEEAANN1 In the same briefing the same guy admitted Su-30 has better sustained turn rate (23-24 deg) than F-15 or F-16 but not better than F-22 (28 deg). The problem was the Indian pilots' overuse of TVC. They wasted all their energy by doing cobras etc and got hunted. Dogfighting is not only about turning quick, its also about conserving the energy of the aircraft. And TVC is not for wasting energy, its for maneuvering while you have already lost your energy.
AndraxxusNephilem 1 year ago
@AndraxxusNephilem that is completely correct but, this brings up a point about the Su-30MKI's supposed superiority. If the Su's were resorting to the TVC to try and outurn the F-15's this has to show that the F-15 was hanging with the Su's quite well. In the end it will come down to the pilot and not the aircraft
BBEEAANN1 1 year ago
@BBEEAANN1 I don't believe Indians HAD to use TVC to match F-15s. A few years ago Su-30MKs without TVCs had beaten F-15 badly. MKI's have no cons compared to MKs. The indians simply don't know how to use TVC, like you said it will always come down to pilot. I won't go into details, but, MKIs TVC is too much dependent on pilot, because half of the stick motion fully controls elevators etc, rest controls TVC. A rookie pilot in an MKI can deflect its nozzles while at mach 2 if he is idiot enough.
AndraxxusNephilem 1 year ago
@AndraxxusNephilem yes in the indian excercise with the indians the F-15's were being flown by 80% unseasoned pilots and 20% seasoned pilots. The F-15 also was outnumbered 3:1 and could not use its BVR. We all know the excercise but, this Redflag was different because those pilots learned how to fly against the Su-30 and did a fine job and beating them handily. The Indians were emberassed at the excercise. They are great pilots and some of the best in the world, it will boil down to the pilot.
BBEEAANN1 1 year ago
@AndraxxusNephilem Btw you can watch the briefing on the last Redflag where the USAF spokesperson taking question states that the Su-30 MKI's were using TVC and that is how they got beat so badly.
BBEEAANN1 1 year ago
@BBEEAANN1 why do you keep saying rape? you are like obsessed with rape.. dear god in fact half if not all your comments have the word rape in it, nobody got raped a bigger army just smashed a smaller army simple as that. that's what USA has been doing in the last few decades, if there was ever a war between Russia and USA that didn't obliterate the entire planet with nukes, the 1,000 T-50 Pak FA would " rape" the 153 F-22 while the MIG-35 and Su-35 would deal with the F-15
Elfulcrum777 1 year ago
@Elfulcrum777 I used the term rape twice, why are you so touchy? The Pak-Fa wont do anything but get scrapped because of its huge radar cross section. The US missles are now designed to go after the shape of the plane so, manueverability really isnt going to do you much. With the speeds of the missles increasing way beyond the speed of the aircraft BVR is where the fight is going to be won and lost. The Pak-Fa just saw its first maiden flight, it isnt going into service for the next 5-8 yearslol
BBEEAANN1 1 year ago
@BBEEAANN1 plus do you think the pak fa's AESA radar is second rate? or the ECM ineffective? even the american show dogfights says modern russian fighters would Jam missiled like Aim-120D plus AMMRAAMS have been evaded by FAULTY aircraft in the past like in Kosovo
Elfulcrum777 1 year ago
@BBEEAANN1 You seriously underestimate Russian tech a war between the US and Russia woulnt bw so one sided as you think it would be, and that is if both nations didnt immediately go nuclear Russia has wy more nukes than America
Elfulcrum777 1 year ago
@BBEEAANN1 oh and i know the Aura is remote controlled, i am not stupid but it is still a robot steered by pretty much an Xbox controller
Elfulcrum777 1 year ago
@Elfulcrum777 And this means what? That it isnt going to destroy whatever it faces? You better hope the Aurora isnt a fighter and just a spy plane lol.
BBEEAANN1 1 year ago
@BBEEAANN1
Elfulcrum777 1 year ago
@BBEEAANN1 and you better pray your USA dosnt go to war with a real army like Russia or China you will have your asses handed to you on a plate with gravy and salad☆ΰΫά
Elfulcrum777 1 year ago
@Elfulcrum777 Yeah, you keep thinking that. Russian planes are flying against our 40-50 year old equipment and getting rolled, and you think they can handle the stuff that the US has already going behind closed doors? Why do you think Russia and China are still trying to sell military secrets still? That would because the US equipement is garbage right?
BBEEAANN1 1 year ago
@BBEEAANN1 I didn't say US equipment is garbage there is more to what i am saying than you think, what i say is that it is not as unbeatable as you say it is, Russian technology is catching up and has caught up in many ways, obviously, btw i don't know what 40, or 50 year old equipment you speak of, the F-15 and MIG-29 came out roughly int he same year along with the Su-27 and F-16, the reason why the F-15 was ahead of the mig was soviet finances at the time were very very bad unlike USA
Elfulcrum777 1 year ago
@Elfulcrum777 actually i made a mistake they F-15 is a couple years older, but only like 3 or 4 than the MIG-29. anyways it wasn't old technology that shot down those faulty and downgraded MIGS
Elfulcrum777 1 year ago
@Elfulcrum777 yes those faulty and downgraded MiG's that are younger than the F-15, says alot about their design.
BBEEAANN1 1 year ago
@Elfulcrum777 the F-15's first flight was 1972 the Su-27 was in 1977. 5 years is a long time on the F-15. The MiG-29 was also first flown in 1977. If you add up the years the F-15 is almost 50 years old. The US has not had to build a new fighter for that long, that says alot about where the Russians were compared to the Americans since the F-15 has reigned supreme in the air for that long. Excuse me but, in the 80's was the cold war and the build up of finances for Russia were fine then
BBEEAANN1 1 year ago
@BBEEAANN1 the cold war was through the late 1950's and well through to the 70's in 1980's the soviet union began to crumble and finally fell in 85, those years that the MIG-29A and Su-27 came out the economy was suffering a depression, and those migs the F-15 shot down were faulty and downgraded and that is the last time i argue about that i don't give care what bullshit you come up with
Elfulcrum777 1 year ago
@Elfulcrum777 That would mean the Su-27 had its funding since it flew in 1977. The TVC technology was not on the bird and it was not developed. The fact remains there is no record of TVC used on any Su-27 in that period, end of story. Your made up illusion it was is just that. The US were teh first to use TVC on aircraft and that was in 87' with the HARV. The MATV engine that Russia copied was flown in 91', many years before the Russians were flying the OVT.
BBEEAANN1 1 year ago
Comment removed
Elfulcrum777 1 year ago
Comment removed
Elfulcrum777 1 year ago
@BBEEAANN1 the New prototype the T-10S was an almost complete remake which included many structural changed and changed in the controls and the addition of more powerful Al-31F to power the T-10S , the Flanker B entered production in 1985, things like TVC had already been tested but the Russians didn't see any real benefit of it on the Su-27 at the time and it was not pursued until later years
Elfulcrum777 1 year ago
@Elfulcrum777 Please give me a solid source showing that the Su-27 entered service with TVC. I have looked and done plenty of research on who was flying with TVC first and it was the HARV. There is no, none, nodda, no data showing the Russians had TVC before flight demos with the OVT in airshows. I can give them, since it was in airshows that they had it late 90's but, before this they had nothing. All the MiG-29's that they sold, not offered on the aircraft until now. Please show the data.
BBEEAANN1 1 year ago
@BBEEAANN1 please pay attention for fucks sake and read , i said TVC was experimented on ONE! Su-27 in 1980 it didn't enter service with TVC dumb-ass also you said the Su-27 didn't exist until the late 1980s when the first prototype was being made in the 1960's and already featured a fly by wire system long before America they had the Flanker in development when the US was still using F4 Phantoms.. and f105 thunder-chiefs
Elfulcrum777 1 year ago
@Elfulcrum777 I have payed attention, obviously you have no sources so you are talking out your ass. Please show me the source, till you do all you have is your nonsence backed up with nothing the Russians have down on film or paper to back up your nonsence. What do you think the HARV, Active and MATV were? There were experimental and they were documented. Russia documents everything it does and there is no data showing they had TVC. Sorry to tell you but the US was the one to develop it.
BBEEAANN1 1 year ago
@BBEEAANN1 No data and since we began talking about TVC, I went back to my old research and found out the actual first experiments with 2D TVC were done on the F-15 in 1977. Langley began research into 2D in the early 70's and the research continued from their into the 90's. I even looked up this info on Wiki and the info is there. wikipedia org/wiki/F-15_ACTIVE look under the Design and development section of the page. You will find the info you need to go look up other sources.
BBEEAANN1 1 year ago
@BBEEAANN1 well since we are counting Wikipedia as a valid source now why don't you just go look up Sukhoi Su-27 and you will see that it mentions thrust vectoring being experimented on an early version and later used on the Su-30. anyways even if America did try TVC first (which i doubt) it does not matter because both Russian fighters and the F-22 have TVC and having it does guarantee victory so this whole argument is irrelevant to who is better btw most of my info is not from Wikipedia..
Elfulcrum777 1 year ago
Comment removed
BBEEAANN1 1 year ago
@Elfulcrum777 You are the one not paying attention. The HARV, MATV, and Active were all experimental and all documented on paper and film. You have no documentation to back up your supposed claims and until then it didnt happen. Even if your supposed claims are true, which they arent, the US was doing 2D TVC experiments on engines for the F-15 as early as the early 70's. This would put the US 15 years ahead of Russian if they actually did it on the Su-27 which, they didnt.
BBEEAANN1 1 year ago
@Elfulcrum777 There is plenty of film of the flankers first flight during this time and not one of the videos shows TVC, you are in illusion and not in reality. Please show me one source, just one. I spent almost an hour and a half looking up what you stated because I had gone over the data about 3 years about in debate. The first country to fly with TVC is the HARV in 87'.
BBEEAANN1 1 year ago
@BBEEAANN1 you are the one who is delusional the first one to fly was not equipped with TVC i already said it was tested on another modified Flanker B before the official unavailing of the air plane it was only tested on 1 ONE but was not pursued until later on maybe you should wake up and realize i am right and you are wrong
Elfulcrum777 1 year ago
@Elfulcrum777 Please show me a source, one source is all I ask. All you do is flap on about this supposed TVC and you have no data to back up your claims. It is good you are a fan of Russian aircraft but, in reality all the Russians do is take what the US designs and modify it so they dont have to do so much R&D. This is known fact in the cold war and it is fact that the 3D TVC on the OVT and the Su-30 is a complete copy of the MATV. Once again name a source to prove what you state
BBEEAANN1 1 year ago
@BBEEAANN1 well i cant do that on the comments , Wikipedia says it happened and so several other sites , TVC was experimented on one Su-27 and later used on the Su-30MK and the experimental Su-37 don't believe me Google Sukoi su-27 real story it shows the flankers development history and it was being developed long before the F-15
Elfulcrum777 1 year ago
@Elfulcrum777 Wikipedia does not say it happened and Wikipedia is not a valid source. Wikipedia is a joke because anyone, including you can put the data up on its site. The development phase of the aircraft on Wiki does not include anything with TVC until later when the aircraft was upgraded to the Su-30.. There are no Russian sources on film or in paper showing the development of TVC on any aircraft used for combat. So please show me your source. It is obvious you dont have one so stop....
BBEEAANN1 1 year ago
@Elfulcrum777 that the fact is there when it isnt.
BBEEAANN1 1 year ago
it seems like you are choosing to ignore that Russia pioneered the invention of the Fly by wire system, you say they're tech is so crappy yet look at the many achievements they have made, first VTOL aircraft , first fly by wire system , first to use the helmet mounted target designation system, not to mention first to go to space. thrust vector control has actually been researched on rockets since the 1930's by Konstantian Tsiolkovsky, long before America. btw the Nazis also researched this
Elfulcrum777 1 year ago
@Elfulcrum777 Who developed the Harrier, the Russians? No they did not develop the Harrier and it was the first VTOL aircraft in development and service. The Yak-141 is a copy of it. Fly by wire was done by both the Russians and the US at the same time, no one can truly say who pioneered the system. Your correct the USSR was the first in space but, not to the moon. The USSR tried to be the first to reach Venus and multiple planets with vehicles and failed, the US beat them to most of them.
BBEEAANN1 1 year ago
Comment removed
Elfulcrum777 1 year ago
@BBEEAANN1 I only said they were the first in space to launch a satellite and the first to space walk (i didn't say that exactly but it is what i meant) i didn't say they got to the moon or Venus US got their first no denying that
Elfulcrum777 1 year ago
@Elfulcrum777 the genius who changed the modern world the most was Nikolai Tesla, he was an Austrian who became an American. If I admire anyone for their genius it is him. The reason we have radar of any kind is because of his research. Rocket TVC and TVC on a plane are 2 totally differnet things, you know this. There is no proof the USSR flew the Su-27 with TVC in production or before the OVT past 2000. This is why I state the Russians had it in the late 90's .
BBEEAANN1 1 year ago
@BBEEAANN1 do you forget the F-35? it is almost an exact copy ( in terms of flight characteristics) as the Yak-141 , Lockheed almost begged the Yakovlev corporation to help them in designing the thrust vectoring V-TOL and STOL F-35 using the prints from the YAK-141 who's copying who?
Elfulcrum777 1 year ago
@Elfulcrum777 one variant of the F-35 uses the engines of the YAK-141 because the US bought the designs from Russia. Man talking to you can be annoying at times when you dont know the history of the aircraft you are discussing. Lockheed didnt beg for anything, they simply bought the plans. Man you really need to research stuff before you start popping off about it:/
BBEEAANN1 1 year ago
@BBEEAANN1 Well okay you are right about that they didn't beg they bought it, but still they took a lot from the YAK-141's design for the F-35
Elfulcrum777 1 year ago
@Elfulcrum777 other than the engine design on the harrier variant of the F-35 there are no other simularities to the YAK-141. The Russians didnt even use the aircraft so, I dont know why the US would bother to design a variant with VTOL, it is pointless in my opinion. The A-10 is all the close cover our troops need. That plane is a flying tank.
BBEEAANN1 1 year ago
@BBEEAANN1 Now that i agree with the A-10 is a much better plane for covering ground troops, that is as long as there are no fighters to shoot it down, but that's another story, the F-35 is actually better equipped for SEAD missions it even states in Wikipedia that it was designed to take out SAM's
Elfulcrum777 1 year ago
@BBEEAANN1 but yeah the new Russian planes are some of the best regardless of what you say ,,and to be honest i hate USA its an empire that thinks they run the world... and i for one will never EVER move there or want to immigrate there NEVER! i am happy in my nice sunny spot i live in on Earth and i hope it will be free of US oppression some day... damn people murdering , law imposing, retinal scanning, 666 marking , woman stealing assholes! i bid you farewell ! or don't what do i care...
Elfulcrum777 1 year ago
@Elfulcrum777 The people behind the US government are the problem, not the American people who dont want our miliatary in other countries. You are aware that the US government does not=the American citizen anymore right? The people behind the US government are using the US military as its pawn. The real struggle now, between Russia, China and the Anglo American Empire which, includes the US and Britian, is who will run the one world government that is being called for.
BBEEAANN1 1 year ago
@Elfulcrum777 The American people are stating the same thing that others are stating, why are we in that country when it is obvious there were no WMD's in Iraq? How did the twin towers fall over when jet fuel cannot cause steal to melt or become molten like in a foundry? It is obvious the US government is behind attacks in its own country since building 7 fell over and nothing hit it. China and Russia have the worst atrocities against humanity in the last 100 years. The British government...
BBEEAANN1 1 year ago
@Elfulcrum777 done plenty of atrocities itself. There isnt one government of the face of the planet that hasnt in one form or another. And dong bring up sweeden. that country allowed plenty of war criminals to hide in their country and that is a crime in itself. Every nationality on the face of the planet has done wrong to someone, some where. You dont lump the whole society in the same batch because not all are guilty of the crimes.
BBEEAANN1 1 year ago
Comment removed
Elfulcrum777 1 year ago
Comment removed
Elfulcrum777 1 year ago
Comment removed
Elfulcrum777 1 year ago
@Elfulcrum777 ...cool story bro.
PNDRazor 1 year ago
@PNDRazor of course...
Elfulcrum777 1 year ago
The Su-27 Zhuk-me radar has a 240km detection range and 185KM tracking/engagement range which is further than the F-15s APG-65 radar plus it could carry extreme range missiles like the R-33, Russian aircraft are not as crappy as you think they are
Elfulcrum777 1 year ago
@Elfulcrum777 And yes since they are giving out the specs of the prototype this is what is actually on the aircraft, ridiculous. It is good that the first flight of the aircraft has happened but, they have a ton of things still to do before it goes into production. I already gave you the fact the Su-27 took 7 years to get into service after its maiden flight, the PAK-FA is more complex and is going to take longer. The F-22 first flew in 97' and didnt see a runwway till 2005. Wake up
BBEEAANN1 1 year ago
Comment removed
Elfulcrum777 1 year ago
@Elfulcrum777 the Su-47 will never enter service, it was cancelled bigtimes. The T-50 might enter service fairly soon. The Su-47 was meant to be a long range supersonic interceptor jet. The T-50 however was decided to be the only choice. Face it, the Su-47 isn't going to happen. The Su-47 has been around since the 80's, there's a reason why it hasn't entered service yet.
wellerocks 1 year ago
@wellerocks actually.. the Su-47 is planned to be modernized and produced in the near future for now it has served as baseline for the development of fifth generation air craft well at least that is what i have read
Elfulcrum777 1 year ago
@Elfulcrum777 btw the Russian Economy died in the early late 89 early 90 not in 85'. This is when the Berlin wall came down because Russia had finally run out of money trying to keep up with the US in the arms race. In thte end it is all for nothing because the idiots behind the scenes are pushing for world government and Russia, the US and every other country is being imploded economically so they can usher that nonsence in, forcing it on all of us.
BBEEAANN1 1 year ago