"Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world." "But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed."
@JoshLikesMusic Those are good scriptures. There are many false prophets in the world today. Some of them are in government positions of power, others lead churches not set up by the Lord, and others just preach false and foolish doctrines of MAN and teach people to sin and that its ok, there is no harm in it, or they teach that there is no God and live for now. All kinds of false prophets.
There are also TRUE PROPHETS and APOSTLES and I testify that they do lead the LDS Church from Utah.
I have cried at many a church service. I sometimes cry when I hear the good news that Christ died for us. I am a sensitive guy. But my tears and convictions do not make what I believe true. "The heart is deceitful and desperately wicked above all things; who can know it?" "There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death."
@JoshLikesMusic It must be strange and hollow to have spiritual experiences, feel things, and then brush all that off as meaningless because you are afraid of deceiving yourself. I think you are already deceiving yourself by brushing these things off and ignoring them like they might be "desperately wicked" or something nonsensical like that. Fact is, you felt something, you cried as a result, you were blessed by it. There is good in all churches and God will love the person, not the church
Luke 24:32 says, "And they said one to another, Did not our heart bburn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?" This is how the men knew it was Jesus that they spoke with. To those that say we should not trust our feelings, how does the Holy Ghost manifest itself and testify of truth if not to our heart?
@LDStothecore The Holy Spirit manifests itself through miracles, as recorded in Acts. But it also manifests itself in that it pronounces to us the truth regarding Christ. The problem is, there are many spirits in this world, and our feelings are not perfect. "Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world." How do we know the Holy Spirit? It always agrees with itself, and by extension with the Bible.
@JoshLikesMusic "How do we know the Holy Spirit? It always agrees with itself, and by extension with the Bible."
I don't even know what that means!! You are speaking vague and strange things, why can't you be more PLAIN like me? At least you know what I am saying. I am saying that God gave us feelings to feel, a heart to love people and things, and NOT to hate people with. SURE I know a heart can be wicked... but Jesus taught us to LOVE our ENEMIES so I do know how to use my heart. To LOVE.
Luke 24:32 says, "And they said one to another, Did not our heart bburn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?" This is how the men knew it was Jesus that they spoke with.
@qmeche123 I think that's true. People do fake tears, but in order to get those tears going they certainly have to feel something. All I said was that tears don't PROVE anything when it comes to truth. Its just an outward sign that something is going on inside that person with emotions. Who knows what actors need to think about to get their phony tears going... but they do know how to intensify those FEELINGS within them.
I am saying DON'T TRUST THAT. Trust God instead. Revelation!
@crazy456eyes You are not coming across as very educated on this, because back then, polygamy was NOT against any laws of the land. If you will research you will find that many many many years later AFTER Joseph Smith was killed/martyred, in 1892 the US Congress passed the EDMUNDS TUCKER ACT which made polygamy illegal. Don't you know your history? Joseph Smith was a LAWFUL man in every way. Mormons as a general rule always have been, and are not anarchists.
Soooooo... Proverbs 28:26 or Romans 10:17 mean nothing to you? Tears are a neural reaction and are not a testimony to anything. lol Don't get me wrong, I am not bashing crying as long as it is fueled by the right things.
@willeilers1 Why don't you just put the TEXT of PROVERBS up there so we can read it easily and see that it supports what I am actually doing here: 26 He that trusteth in his own heart is a fool: but whoso walketh wisely, he shall be delivered.
I preach against that in this video. You are supporting me and you don't even seem to realize it. Listen to the video, I explicitly address this and talk of what a testimony REALLY is. Its NOT emotions. It is revelation, Holy Ghost. Seek that.
Hey man, but how do explain the FLDS? They are taught to pray to God on whether THEIR church is the true church. They pray to know if Warren Jeffs is a true living prophet and they receive the same - spiritual - feeling you do. I'm not trying to be nasty, but i just want to make you think on whether feelings can deceive.
@crazy456eyes You are falsely PROJECTING onto the FLDS the same experience that I had, that we have. That's just a huge assumption on your part, and you got it wrong. You even go so far as to use the word SAME when describing what happens spiritually, as if you were the GOD who gave that to each of us qualifying you to actually say that... but you are not God, and you don't know a thing about other people's personal spiritual lives, or the answers that they get from God through prayer.
@mormonanswerman How do you know i am - falsely projecting the same feeling -? Have you experienced the feeling the FLDS have had? They are shown the same scripture where it says to pray to God to know if what they have been taught is true just the same as you have and that's how they know it to be true, as do you. So yes, it is the same feeling, since they both come from the same source, the BofM. Someone is wrong, right? Or both wrong.
@crazy456eyes How do I know? Because these are two very different things and results, that's how. I do know that. It is YOU that is saying it is all the same thing, but you don't even know HALF of this, because you are neither LDS or FLDS.
@mormonanswerman Sorry i didn't realize you had felt what the FLDS had felt, my bad. I was LDS so i know what feeling you are talking about too. The FLDS explain the exact same feeling that Joseph (their prophet) testified they would feel. Are you saying their feeling's are false witnesses, and your's aren't?
@crazy456eyes I pray about individual things. It is possible to get a testimony that the Book of Mormon is true without even being a member of this church, so I am not surprised that FLDS would say that too. But their prophet is false, he breaks the laws of the land, and has landed himself in hot water with the law. He is no effective prophet, in fact, he is a pedofile. You can't accuse that of Pres. Thomas Monson, who is a REAL prophet of God and the only man on this earth who has the keys.
Your first few minutes of this video rely on the premise that your senses are 100% accurate. They aren't and they can be misled. This is why we don't depend on a single sense for verification, as you were suggesting. Only when we combine senses do we increase the certainty of an experience.
This holds true for everyone including their faith.
Feelings don't prove anything, if it did all religions would be the same. Everyone
who is involved in any type of spirituality can tell you of their feelings. How they feel what they believe is true. If someone is basing truth on feelings alone, then its not enough..
Feelings don't prove anything, if it did all religions would be the same. Everyone
who is involved in any type of spirituality can tell you of their feelings. How they feel what they believe is true. If someone is basing truth on feelings alone, then its not enough..
@justcary I agree with that. But the exception to the rule is that one gets deceived by feelings. Most people who feel good about what they learn are probably right. It was probably good. Why not? How many people do YOU know that felt bad when they ate a square meal? How many people feel good when they hit their thumb with a hammer? I think our feelings are a very good indicator of when we have experienced something good or bad. When you throw up its because you're sick or ate bad food?
@Bootychocolate but to ME, pleasure is not the same thing as happiness. Maybe that's where we disagree? Sinful people can have pleasure, and indeed, that is the enticement, the lure, the temptation. But sinful people do not have HAPPINESS because God gives us happiness as a result of our obedience to His commandments and way of life. If we are good He blesses us with His Spirit and that makes us happy, truly happy.
@mormonanswerman Proverbs 2:14 "who delight in doing wrong and rejoice in the perverseness of evil," Here is the problem... you are not talking about "happiness" or ending in happiness... but mormonism talks of a "burning in the bosom" and uses good feelings to point to truth... not happiness... but a delight or pleasure... again it is not easy following christ (christ said it himself)... if the path is not HARD, and not easy, and evil rejoice in things to confirm what they want... and--
@Bootychocolate DELIGHT and REJOICE is NOT happiness. Happiness comes from the Lord. As long as we can agree with definitions, I think that we can agree, otherwise, its all semantics.
What are you really trying to prove or say here, anyway? That it is somehow impossible to be happy in this life? That this happiness may be our own self deception or something, and that there is no formula for happiness in this life? Is that what you are saying?
@mormonanswerman Show me the line in the Bible that says you are going to be rewarded with happiness now on earth for being good... it doesnt say that, its in your head. But he will lead you perfect happiness. Why do you continue to make it about me? I have never made this personal. I am simply talking about the ideology and the flaws of what you are saying. People enjoy being evil... stop living in this fake mind set and kidding yourself...
@Bootychocolate All you have to do is go to lds website and look at the scripture program there under gospel library and search for happiness to find all the MANY scriptures in the Bible and Book of Mormon that speak of how living the gospel of Jesus Christ brings happiness. True happiness. For example:
Ps. 144:15 Happy is that people, that is in such a case: yea, happy is that people, whose God is the Lord.
Ps. 146:5 Happy is he ...whose hope is in the Lord his God
@mormonanswerman I agree that evil reaps destruction... but it does not mean it is the hard way or the painful way all of the time. Most of the time it is the easier choice and the way that brings instant gratification.
@mormonanswerman Look up the definition of happiness on dictionary com on the internet... it says nothing of long term. But to be happy or the be in happiness... using your definition of happiness, is i'm assuming to be satisfied. But the problem IS that this is NOT what we are discussing at all. Because to be satisfied is extremely different from happiness. People delight in their evil... and yet you say that delight is the INDICATOR for TRUTH... so how can we rely on this?
@mormonanswerman I understand that the evil cannot find satisfaction in their ways without God, but people can FEEL satisfied, if that makes sense. When we speak in terms of NOW it might be nicer to choose evil because it delivers quick.... but when we talk of eternity or periods of extended time, it is not even comparable. The point im making is this, when you are evil you can feel "happy" and think you have found truth through your feelings, just as you say you feel.
@Bootychocolate I think we are getting close to agreement here, as long as you are not saying that the feelings of "happiness" that the sinner feels are equal the feelings of happiness that I feel from choosing the serve the Lord...? Because they are not the same, which is why I resist using the same word, happiness, to describe the two. I want to say that the sinner is experiencing FUN, but not happiness.
Are we "happy" at Disneyland, or just having FUN? To me, a HUGE difference.
@mormonanswerman ---and the Bible directly says that the heart is deceitful, then we can safely assume from all of this that happiness and good feelings do not point to truth. In fact, Jesus said, Blessed are the poor in spirit, Blessed are they that mourn, Blessed are the meek, Blessed are they that hunger and thirst after righteousness... for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets that were before you. PERSECUTED and MEEK, NOT happiness NOW yet rejoice...
@Bootychocolate So the heart can be deceitful. I know that. But the heart can also be NOT deceitful. It goes both ways.
Listen, the BRAIN can be deceitful especially if someone is very uneducated and can be easily FOOLED. I say, so? The brain is still good for great knowledge TOO.
Just like the HEART is great for knowing how it feels to feel the Holy Ghost. It goes both ways.
Eyes can be deceitful too. We might see an optical illusion. So? Eyes can be NOT deceitful too. Your point?
@mormonanswerman Does the Bible say its both ways? The Bible says "the heart IS IS IS IS IS IS IS IS IS deceitful" not sometimes, or it can happen. Its not a matter of "so what?" 's. Its not my point by the way, its the BIBLES POINT. I'm just quoting it. But the point i was making with it was that when you use your heart or feelings to point to truth and we know for a FACT that the heart deceives how can we truly trust our heart for truth when the bible says otherwise?
@Bootychocolate The Bible says in ONE ONE ONE ONE ONE ONE ONE verse that the heart is deceitful, but in TWENTY TWENTY TWENTY others actually talks up the heart as a good thing. I guess it goes both ways, the heart, but it actually is a force for GOOD in more ways. Does God dwell in the heart, for instance?
Eph. 3:17 That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love,
Hmm, Bible says that good things can dwell there. I think the heart is good.
@mormonanswerman If we could completely rely on feelings why would we need discipline, why would we need a book? why would the good path be a difficult one? Why are we persecuted? If the heart points to truth why dont all people know the truth? IF the heart points to truth arent all people correct? Think of the philosophical meaning behind this extreme statement. If the heart points to truth then drugs that FEEL GOOD, would be great for you.. because things that FEEL GOOD would be good.
@Bootychocolate Ok, I don't COMPLETELY rely on feelings. I just recognize that God gives us GODLY feelings, like that scripture:
Eph. 3:17 That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love,
proving to me that the heart and the feelings there can be good, and can be a force for recognizing good and right things, or even truth. I value the heart, because the Bible does. It makes sense too.
@Bootychocolate I get persecuted here on YOUTUBE all the time. I believe in the words of Jesus Christ that great shall be the reward. But I don't rejoice in it. I am saddened by the hateful people spewing F Bombs, and multiple derogatory and perjorative terms, the name calling, the despising, and the hateful murderous comments uttered by nameless people behind a computer keyboard in the darkness of a basement. I say so? They are cowards anyway, and there is nothing joyful in their behavior
@mormonanswerman Your persecution is nothing in-comparison to the 176,000 christians killed a year for their faith alone. Mormons are anything but persecuted, although they love to claim otherwise. Why dont you rejoice in the hardship? The Bible says to... F-bombs sadden you?! there are worse things... i got over that in middle school. you can say cuss words and be one of the greatest people, its really trivial, but meaning in words is relative. Funny though that you ignored my claims.
@Bootychocolate I know that my persecutions are minimal, even insignificant. I enjoy great freedom in my world, and I have not experienced terrible things, yet. I do believe they are coming, however.
@Bootychocolate No, you can't "safely" assume that happiness and good feelings don't point to truth. I say they DO. Absolutely! It in fact PROVES that you are doing something right and the Lord is blessing you.
If you ascribe good feelings to the devil, you are deceived. If you ascribe happiness to the devil, then you are also deceived. If that is YOUR gospel, it is truly ANOTHER gospel as spoken of in Galatians.
Jesus said my yoke is EASY and my burden is LIGHT. I want that.
@mormonanswerman You say im deceived and yet have no backing. You just wish to believe that the devil could never be something pleasing... But the Bible describes satan as deceiving and as an angel of light, as the most pleasing, the greatest counterfeit, capable of miracles, if the devil was in front of you the devil would be beautiful, attractive and likable.
@Bootychocolate Now pleasing is not happiness. Pleasing is something that could be related to food, sex, or even the weather. It is not a synonym for happiness, because someone could be pleased in their wickedness, in their sins. Pleasing has to do with pleasure. Being pleased. This is different from serving the Lord.
I still think this is all SEMANTICS, and we should just acknowledge that there are GODLY FEELINGS. Its real.
@Bootychocolate I understand that Jesus was giving comforting words to those who are going through hell because of the ACTIONS of OTHERS.
Jesus is NOT communicating that living the gospel brings unhappiness and sorrow and mourning. He is NOT saying that. He is merely saying that the day will yet come for those that ARE persecuted that it will be NO MORE.
But not everyone is experiencing the same things, are they? I experience a level of respect in the United States. No one burns my house down
@mormonanswerman It doesnt bring it in the long run... but what did the apostles do, what did Jesus do? They all greatly suffered for their beliefs. It is not a matter of living "your best life now".... God wants us to be happy, but emphasizes discipline and hardship for those he loves! Being blessed doesnt mean always having everything.
@Bootychocolate They were HAPPY in their sufferings, as Peter talked about, because of the spirit and glory of God that rests upon you. THAT's what brings the happiness, NOT the pain of the persecutions. Pain is no fun and very undesirable, but when it happens to you because of your belief in Christ, then Christ is going to send His Spirit to COMFORT you. Peace.
1 Pet. 4:14 If ye be reproached for the name of Christ, happy are ye; for the spirit of glory and of God resteth upon you:
Doesnt it feel great to eat that big mac? especially three of em? Doesnt most sin feel good in the short term? ABSOLUTELY, does it make it right? NO. Did you ever see nazis cry or say wow this is terrible. Or bodies tell us not to follow good things, thats why its not an appealing choice to most. Just think, by saying what you are saying you debunk your entire religion at the same time logically.
@Bootychocolate NO, it does NOT feel good to eat three big macs. It would make you feel terrible. So if its a sin to eat three big macs, it certainly is not a sin that feels good. A stretched tummy is actually quite painful.
AND... we should PAY ATTENTION to those feelings.
Why is it that the antimormons come up with such illogical things passing it off as some good point made, when they actually made a bad point?
This man is absolutely deceived... this is why he does not understand. Do you honestly think that the billions of hindus, muslims, buddhists, sikhs, satanists, new agers, do you honestly think any of these people feel BAD about what they do? You have to be kidding me! You think hitler felt bad accomplishing what he set out to do? NO WAY! they im sure were jumping for joy, smiling, happy as a dog! Think logically here, it is easier in fact to be evil, and not choose against your instincts.
You argue that everybody FEELS GOOD about their religion, but that it compares to Hitler's "good" feelings while murdering 6,000,000 Jews. Now THAT's LOGIC!
@mormonanswerman Is it easier to be lazy or to make good choices? When you run or lift weights does your body not scream NOOOO! stop this is difficult? Is it not easier to not train hard... but in the end it is more beneficial. Mormonism advertises happiness now, christianity advertises happiness in the end.. like a work out, but joy in your heart from knowing, much like a work out or run.
@Bootychocolate If anyone can be accused of working hard, it is the Mormons.
I disagree that christianity advertises happiness in the end. In fact, you can find most of them preaching HELL FIRE and DAMNATION for everyone else not thinking like they do, in the end.
Mormons teach of the three heavens, the kingdoms of God that await. We teach happiness now AND then. Our purpose IS to be happy. To find out how. And to keep it for all eternity. It is IN the FAMILY.
@Bootychocolate Well, that's you speculation I guess. You did talk to him personally to know all this, right?
All I know is that the SCRIPTURES teach that wickedness was NEVER happiness. I'll stick with the SCRIPTURES rather than your opinions of what you think Hitler thought and how he personally felt about all that he did. God doesn't give happiness to those that murder. He takes His happiness AWAY, actually.
@Bootychocolate I know what's wrong with your "logic" You think a smile on a face means someone is "happy." Ever heard of an ACTOR? Alma 41:10 Behold, I say unto you, wickedness never was happiness. People can smile. Listen to this song: Remember a smile is just A frown turned upside down My friend let me tell you Smiling faces, smiling faces sometimes They don't tell the truth, uh Smiling faces, smiling faces Tell lies and I got proof Beware, beware of the handshake That hides the snake
@Bootychocolate "im sure were jumping for joy, smiling, happy as a dog!"
jumping for "joy?" Smiling? Happy?
If you think this is what Nazi's did when they murdered people, you have not seen the pictures. Wickedness was never happiness, and it doesn't get more wicked than what they did. They were stressed and hateful people, suspicious of all, trusting of no one, and murdering all who might challenge them. Not happy.
@camdawg7 Well Santa Claus really IS devilish if it is having this effect on young people. I think that it depends on how it is done. If parents teach faith on Jesus Christ and God the Father, those kids are going to be fine.
The flying spaghetti monster is an atheist straw man because the compare this imaginary silly thing to God to mock and pull down the importance of God. However we have so many PROOFS that there IS a God even without seeing Him. We see His creations that are self evident
my mom came to me in a dream with the missionaries saying to follow them. and i did brother and im so glad that i joined the church i found the love of my life and i found salvation only that this church can bring.
Many preachers are teaching their people to not trust in their feelings, that they can be deceived by their feelings!! And those listeners trust and believe it at face value, because, I have had on more than one occasion been told by a well-meaning Christian that I shouldnt trust in my feelings
I agree with you that all we have to go on is our feelings, or it at least makes up a big part of who we are and how we come to conclusions. But if we pray about something, say the book of mormon, we feel things like a burning in the bosom, peace, sometimes nothing, sometimes confusion. When we pray and feel the good feelings how can we know that those feelings are from a god and not just feelings that we get in certain circumstances?
Like a bungee jump. I have never done it, and never will, but I can not say that it is not exciting because the people who HAVE done it swear by it being one of the most exciting things ever. I think its psycho and I can't get past the idea that I might die.
I think many Christians are the same way about the TRUE doctrines that I have discovered through searching and prayer, but THEY WON'T TRY IT. Scared, I guess.
So what I am saying in a round about way, is that until one does experience the feelings of the Holy Ghost giving answers to prayers so that you not only feel things but you perceive things, intelligence, etc., there is nothing like it! You will know, and you will know it was something very special given from God. You just know by experience.
Well i have gone skydiving and it wasn't all the big hullabaloo everyone says it is, so you can't trust other people.
Yes i have prayed about it and many other things and gotten the answer in the way the D&C describes as well as other answers it does not describe, so I understand WHAT it feels like. I just can't reconcile to myself HOW I can know that those feelings were from God?
All I can say is that this is where faith comes into play, because you have to let go enough to turn your belief into knowledge. I can say that for me, these tests, these spiritual tests that I have done, as you have done, are the proof, and the repetition of it, to me at least, is the turning of this belief into knowledge, so that you KNOW. Repetition turns it into knowledge. I have had it validated again and again for many decades since my teenage years. I do know now. SO confident.
But when we say "the feelings in our heart" we are TALKING about how the spirit testified to us.
Joshua 2:11 "And as soon as we had heard these things our hearts did melt, neither did there remain any more courage in any man, because of you: for the Lord your God, he is God in heaven above, and in earth beneath"
Romans 8:27 "And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the Saints according to the will of God"
Everyone is sinning.. ALWAYS. I wouldn't consider my self a sinner as far as the big ones go, I follow all the counsel from the prophet as best I can (though there is always room for improvement) And it seems the case that whenever someone doubts the church and brings it up with friends or leaders the case is ALWAYS "well you must be sinning and have a hardened heart." My heart is far from hard. I have no idea what to believe now, and it changes from day to day.
And I have felt the same feelings that people say are the spirit. But how do I know these feelings are from God? How do you know peace is from God? Or a burning in the bosom? Or silence? How can we know these feelings are from a god?
I do believe we can over analyze things so that we again begin to doubt. What we ought to do is try the test, like you have done, and see if we can repeat this test. Its the same as science. You know how many scientists KNOW what they "know" (even if it is a theory like evolution), because of the repetition of their experiments. They also RELY on repetition and being able to reproduce to turn those theories into theorems!
It happens spiritually too. Embrace it. Trust in it. Run with it.
Why can we over analyze? The test is anything but repeatable. It is different every time. Most of the time there is nothing. If it were the same every time, to me at least, it seems that meditating on a certain thing could produce the same results every time because you are doing the same thing. That still doesn't mean the feelings came from god? It just proves that you will feel those feelings in those circumstances.
That has not been my experience, but there have been times when it is difficult to feel the Spirit. There are times when I try to pray, but can't feel much or I feel distant. A prophet has said that when this happens we can read the scriptures, a proven activity that brings the Spirit, and then we can pray more easily. There are time tested things that we can do to have success in this, and reading the scriptures, singing hymns, they all help very much on this. They lay the groundwork.
Part of the test or experiment is knowing that we can't control the timing of the outcome. When one petitions the Lord, they don't control the Lord, they wait upon him patiently. That's just the way it works, and we can't control that. So I agree with you that it is not the same every time because sometimes there is nothing, YET. But if we wait, the SAME THING HAPPENS, every time. It has been so with me.
Its just a timing thing. Its really a TEST of faith that is taking place. God tests us.
And how long do we wait? Someone that is searching out this religion can't wait for 10 years to get an answer. There are hundreds to thousands of other religions that one needs to experiment with if they are searching for a true religion. Seeing as the average man only lives approximately 75 yrs in the US that leaves much less than a year per religion. I've had this same question for the past 9 years since my mission and still no answer.
It will not take 10 years. When I said wait patiently on the Lord, I was thinking up to a day or so of praying fervently. Enos prayed all day, and then into the night too, until he finally got an answer. But he did pray for 8 - 16 hours straight. Have you done that? I would do that if you really want an answer. The Lord will deliver on the really faithful effort.
I don't know that I've ever prayed for 8-16 hours straight on my knees, but i have fasted and prayed for almost 2 days straight and I would consider that "praying" for >24hrs straight. Is that the time limit then? Because it doesn't sound right to say
"well you really need to try and pray for at least 24-36 hours straight before you really know." I don't think there is anywhere in the scriptures that gives a "time limit" I think the idea is that you are sincerely searching.
@camdawg7 " I don't think there is anywhere in the scriptures that gives a "time limit" "
Jesus fasted and prayed for 40 days in a wilderness before he was ready to begin his 3 year ministry. There is a great example in that.
I think the time limit is whatever it needs to be, until we get our answers. If we quit after a day, then that might have been our own impatience. Only WE really know if we quit or not. You just know, spiritually, whether you are going to get an answer.
@mormonanswerman You mentioned that you just know, spiritually, whether you are going to get an answer. I "feel" like I'm not going to get an answer. Should I consider this a spiritual feeling that I won't get an answer. How should I interpret this?
@camdawg7 If you feel like you are not going to get an answer, this could be doubts, OR it could be a prompting that the Lord is not going to give you a specific answer yet.
I was once told by the Spirit in response to a serious question posed to God several years ago, that I would NOT get an answer until I went to a more sacred place to pray. I did, then I did get an answer, but the Lord was not going to answer me in the way I wanted, but the way He wants to and thinks is best.
@mormonanswerman So how do I know if it is doubts or if he just doesn't want to answer me yet or if there is just no god at all? How do you distinguish between these? I've prayed in the most sacred place I can think of a few times, but now I can't renew my recommend because I can't sincerely answer the question about belief in God.
@camdawg7 The temple is a sacred place, but its hard to pray there. Go to the mountains, a sacred grove, a wilderness, some of the most wonderful prayers have been answered in those places, including mine, and you don't need a temple recommend to go there. Just go with faith, and believe.
@mormonanswerman It's not hard to pray in the temple? I always liked to pray and sit and ponder in the celestial room after endowments. I have prayed in wilderness areas, and the only answer I ever get is that the sun is shining on me or it's raining or it smells fresh. I don't consider those feelings answers from a god, just acknowledgement of my senses and the world around me. But the problem isn't where I pray, but how we interpret the "answers" we get from prayer or meditation.
@camdawg7 If am in the wilderness and feel the sun, or the rain, or the fresh smells of nature, that merely puts me in a mode of thankfulness to my Father in Heaven, it has not put me in a spiritual mode to hear answers to prayer. That comes from a deep humility that starts by kneeling down, shutting out the temporal world, pondering and seriously considering REAL communication with a heavenly being, namely, Heavenly Father. Its real, but you have to get yourself "tuned in" by faith in Christ
@mormonanswerman I couldn't agree more that REAL communication with a god (if there is a god?)comes from shutting out the temporal world and with humility/humbleness. But "tuned in" by faith in Christ? How can I have faith in Christ if my very question is whether or not god exists?
@camdawg7 "How can I have faith in Christ if my very question is whether or not god exists?"
You have to try the test. It's like science experiments. You have to have all ingredients and conditions present in a science experiment to get a repeat on the experiment. Same with spiritual things.
You need:
faith in Christ
real intent
belief
sincerity
and you need to ASK things, and WAIT patiently for answers. I do know that this works, and if it doesn't for you yet, examine each condition...
@camdawg7 you CAN'T be thinking IF. If you are thinking IF, its going to make it NOT work. IF thoughts are the OPPOSITE of FAITH. If you are thinking IF, then you are doubting. Doubt is going to sink this experiment. You have to believe. Go there with a child like belief. LET GO man! Let go of your adult doubts, approach God in child like humble faith in prayer and BELIEVE that He exists. Don't doubt it, that sinks it, and you miss the miracle as a result. Stop thinking IF and BELIEVE!
@mormonanswerman Well, it makes more sense to me that there isn't a god. I don't understand how if I don't think there is an invisible man in the sky, how do I just believe that he is? I can't just make myself believe?! belief comes through proofs, not from nothing. That's like asking someone to believe in a purpleheaded people eater that will grant you any wish. How do I just make myself believe there is a purpleheaded people eater? You can't do that, there needs to be evidence/proof.
@camdawg7 No, the purple headed people eater and the flying spaghetti monster are two of the stupidest atheist straw men ever constructed to make a point. Believing in God is not like believing in one of those things at all. Believing in God is a NATURAL result of being a human. When people stop believing in God, it is because they have deceived THEMSELVES by talking themselves out of it, like this. You don't have to make yourself believe, you have to make yourself UNbelieve. That's hard!
@camdawg7 belief doesn't come through proofs! It comes from letting go of those "proofs" that would make you think you know it all already, when you don't.
When Peter saw Christ walk on the water and asked if he could too, how believing was that? Very. A person thinking like you are thinking would want some "proof" that he won't sink. Peter did sink, when he began to doubt, but for a short time, he did indeed walk on the water and Peter had great FAITH to do that. then, DISTRACTED by DOUBT.
@mormonanswerman I still don't understand how belief works exactly or what your definition is of belief? Can you give an example of belief that I can associate with, something in my time period. Also if you could explain the difference between faith and belief. I looked up some definitions of belief and more than half include some form of evidences to persuade one of something, so your definition may differ and that's ok, I just want to be on the same page as you.
@camdawg7 If you would be on the same page as I am on, you would FIRST believe in Jesus Christ as the Son of God. I can not relate to someone who is actually doubting the existence of God. That seems such a far and impossible thought to me! I can not imagine actually thinking that way or worrying about that, I am so sure that there IS a God. Have you never experienced ANY miracles in your life? Have you never had any communication of any sort from God, ANY answers to prayers, ever?
@mormonanswerman Ah, but before I believe Christ is the son of God I need to believe in a god! But I think I get your gist. As far as miracles go.. I only see miracles as unlikely events or unexplainable events. To me that does not constitute a reason to think "well I don't understand this or that so there must be a god!" I and the world don't understand a lot but that doesn't mean there is a god.
@mormonanswerman And as for unlikely events. Say you play the lotto (I know you wouldn't but it's an example on probabilities and god) and you have a 1/100000000 chance of winning. now you pray that you would win and you end up winning. Now imagine how many people probably believed in god and prayed for the same thing when they played. It would seem pretty likely that someone that prayed for winning actually won and thought "what are the chances?! must've been that god wanted me to win!"
@mormonanswerman But the chances that someone won that believed in god won is actually pretty likely. Now you say "well that's the lotto and I don't think god cares about the lotto." rightly so. now I apply this to the billions that pray for things like being cured from cancer. What are the chances? not likley but it happens and we don't fully understand why. now we don't hear much from the people that just died and weren't cured. their excuse is, "gods ways are not man's" or something.
@mormonanswerman But the people that were cured and EVEN against what the doctor said! Well again, it's not like doctors are gods and understand exactly how a disease will progress with every person because every person is different and reacts differently to treatments. So people usually think "well the doctor said I would die and I didn't! So there, that's proof of god's ways not being in line with the doctors" I hope you could understand how I could see this as not a miracle.
@mormonanswerman Sorry I really do suck at getting my thoughts and ideas coherently out of my head so others can understand, and it's hard when this youtube stuff is so disjointed.
@mormonanswerman And I forgot to answer your last question! Any communication or answers? Well that is exactly what I'm unsure of because it seems I have had all the "usual" answers people tend to get i.e. burning in the bosom, peace, comfort, silence, serenity, confusion, doubt, goosebumps, excitement, and a whole host of other feelings. But what I can't seem to reconcile is how I can know that these feelings are from a god? How do I know these "answers" aren't just produced by me?
@camdawg7 All GOOD things come from God. That I know, and that's something that you can know too. I think what you need to know is that you already know. You are making it difficult because you already know, but you are doubting and overanalyzing it, and I too could go there, but I LIKE the peace and happiness that comes to me by being obedient to the things that God has given to me. I think you should too. :)
@mormonanswerman if I believed he existed I wouldn't have to pray about whether or not he exists now would I? You can't make beliefs up, that is the definition of "make-belief". If I make my beliefs up then that concludes to me that there is no God, because the only reason to just believe is because you don't have a foundation of evidence. That puts me at a standstill as to what faith is for... I don't think I understand faith. I guess faith could make sense AFTER you find out god exists.
@camdawg7 belief is not knowledge. YES you do have to pray to KNOW that He exists. Otherwise you just believe.
When people stop believing, they are no longer like a child, that WOULD believe.
Faith is what will allow a person who wants to KNOW that God exists, and not merely believe in it. If you don't even believe in it, you are in the position that you now find yourself, blinded by the craftiness of the atheists with their lame arguments in pseudo logic, like spaghetti monsters...
@camdawg7 What is faith? and how do you get it? You have to TRY. You have to TRY an experiment. If you are struggling without any desire to even try, then you are not in a position where you can get some faith, and THEN get answers to prayers. Alma taught:
Alma 32:27 ...experiment upon my words and exercise a particle of faith, yea, even if ye can no more than desire to believe, let this desire work in you, even until ye believe in a manner that ye can give place for a portion of my words.
@camdawg7 Alma 32:28 Now, we will compare the word unto a seed. Now, if ye give place, that a seed may be planted in your heart, behold, if it be a good seed, if ye do not cast it out by your unbelief, that ye will resist the Spirit of the Lord, behold, it will begin to swell within your breasts; and when you feel these swelling motions, ye will begin to say within yourselves, it must needs be that this is a good seed, that the word is good, for it beginneth to enlarge my soul,..my understanding
@camdawg7 You can't kneel down in the celestial room and pour out your whole soul to God. Its just not appropriate there. But in the wilderness places you can. I have found that it is much more natural to my soul to pray out loud and talk to God. Then listen carefully, closely, until you have made a spiritual connection by the power of the Holy Ghost. If you have not experienced this is may take some "fine tuning" to block out all distractions, and listen. But when God speaks you will know
I figure I can conclude 1 of two things. Either there is no god or if there is a god I am just missing something that I should be seeing that others see. Every time I ask a bishop or family or friends, I just 2 weeks ago asked my sunday school class "I want you to go home and think about an answer to this, 'how can we know the feelings we get after we pray are from god?' and every time I get the same answer --
The answer I get is "Well I don't know but we know all good things come from god, therefor the good feelings you get are from god... but that is assuming you believe in a god." Or "you just need to have faith and wait patiently" To me it makes perfect sense to say those things because they give god an excuse when prayers are not answered. I have also thought "is this just god testing me?" There is no way for me to know except just wait. wait wait wait.
I tried to post 2 other comments before this and I guess they didn't get put in. Sorry if that comment seemed to come out of nowhere. Thanks mormonanswerman for trying to answer my questions sincerely unlike imtherealthing. He was a bit judgemental and ... fiery I guess is a nice way to put it. More like baptist preacher fiery than testimony meeting fiery lol.
What an ABSOLUTELY STUPID thing to say we do not feel the Spirit by "feelings"..tell me..how does one experience the Holy Ghost?..well?
Tell me why "ALL" the references to feeling in your "HEART", listen with ones "EARS"?..show me where we ONLY experience the Holy Ghost with our mind?..well?
I'll tell you one thing..that "spirit" one feels in a "christian" church where rock music is being played is the same "spirit" I feel at a hockey game..big differance from the "Spirit"
oh, looks like I forgot to read these comments as well. I never said we don't feel the spirit by feelings. I said quite the contrary. The only way we can come to know truth is by our senses which sometimes includes "feelings" as per the holy ghost. You now know that I'm an atheist and most of the comment you made here doesn't apply to my question at hand. Last of all we "ONLY" experience EVERYTHING with our mind. When you feel your heart you are feeling your heart with your mind.
Ye STIFFNECKED and uncircumcised IN HEART and EARS, YE DO ALWAYS RESIST the HOLY GHOST: as your fathers did, SO DO YE.
Which of the PROPHETS have not your fathers PERSECUTED and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers:
Who have RECIEVED the law BY THE DISPOSTION OF ANGELS, and have NOT KEPT IT
How do YOU know that the eye witness accounts as found in the Bible about God from prophets and apostles are true and accurate EXPLAIN how you know this to be true. Can you quantify this with any proof?
That is the exact same question posed to the Latter-day Saints when anti-mormons deny that the modern prophets and apostles are not who they claim to be. I know the prophets and apostles of the Bible are what they claim by the Holy Ghost.
I don't know that they are true. There isn't any way to know they are really speaking for god the same way that you can't know that a god exists. Saying you know they are true because of feelings isn't really an answer.
Ah..you are an athiest?...good grief man...there is a GODHEAD that is real..go seek out the TRUTH..experiment upon the WORD of GOD...don't think that you have to throw out your intelligence to accept the Godhead...there are millions who are much more educated than you who still accept science and a belief in a Godhead.
Stop your whining and find out for yourself...get a Book of Mormon and read Alma chapter 32 - try the free on-line version at lds(dot)org - read it and ponder it
I don't know that I'm an atheist, I just don't see any "proof" of a god. I can assure you I've read through the BoM over 10 times and have studied the BoM. I have experimented upon the word. And there are millions who are much more educated than me that accept science and don't accept a belief in a God. That is absolutely no reason to believe in a god. It doesn't take education to know if there is a God or not.
Is PROVERBS all you've got to try and debunk this truth, this truth that is taught so clearly in other parts of the Bible, not the least of which is the NEW TESTAMENT where Jesus teaches so many truths, how to pray, Father in Heaven, the nature of the Godhead, etc.
You guys seem to always misunderstand that the feelings of the Holy Ghost are MORE than just the leanings of the heart. Not leanings at all. But power given. It is a force felt. A real experience.
What do you mean, "is PROVERBS all you've got" ? Is Proverbs not Scripture? Is Proverbs not as true as the rest of the Bible? So you want more? try Gen 6:5 Numbers 15:39 2Chron. 6:7-9 Prov. 19:21 Prov. 23:12,- "Apply your heart to discipline and your ears to words of knowledge."
Prov. 23:19,- "Listen my son and be wise and direct your heart in the way." He was told to direct his heart in wisdom, not to let his heart (or feelings) direct him.
Again, is that all you've got? Again, my heart does NOT tell me the truth. When I FEEL the Holy Ghost, there is a whole lot more than just the heart involved. There is the mind. There is the SOUL. There is the whole body feeling peace and knowledge.
There is also burning in the bosom, but again, that is only a part. So I understand all the talk of the heart and setting your heart on things and having false hopes, falling in love, etc. Heart can be deceitful, SURE, if God is not involved.
There is a man who is a Christian and he has some relatives that are Muslim, and he asked his uncle (who is Muslim) why he believed what he believed and his response was that when he read the Koran that he felt a burning in his bosom and a peace and that confirmed to him that it was true. So how is his wrong and yours right? How do you know that the feelings of your heart are not deceiving you? your beliefs should be based on the bible NOT your feelings.
NO, feelings can LEAD you in the right direction. Who would say that there is not some TRUTH in the Quran? If you read truth in the QURAN, in the Bible, in the Book of Mormon, or in a science book, you are going to FEEL the Holy Ghost, because the Holy Ghost is God's witness that we are on track to truth.
What some people do, is they feel this, and they think they have arrived, but in all likelihood they are only PART way there.
ALWAYS keep an open mind, and ALWAYS be ready for change. We have to be this way because Jesus is coming again, and we have to KNOW who He is when we see Him, considering that there will be many false Christs saying that they are Him, but they are NOT Him.
Holy Ghost and this method of KNOWING truth is and will continue to be absolutely necessary!!
Feelings were never meant to test truth. Granted, feelings are God-given, and it's feelings and emotions that make life interesting. But, if the belief is not true, all the feelings and emotion in the universe cannot help you, me, or anyone else.
Feelings are the BEST. They are the method for determining truth. If the Holy Ghost is within you, telling you that something is TRUE, you will have the experience like those in the Bible had when they wrote:
Luke 24: 32 And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while [Jesus] talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?
There you go. Its biblical and it is true. Its happening today. Its real and the METHOD to know for sure of anything.
however, feelings can also be deceptive. The bible warns us about our feelings.
Jeremiah 17:9 - The heart is deceitful above all things and is exceedingly corrupt. Who can know it?
Proverbs 28:26 - He who trusts in his own heart is a fool.
With the logic you present, how do you justify a person joining Islam based on their feeling that it is right? Even the sincerest of feelings lead to alternative solutions other than Christ.
everytime I read about the progress of the temple being erected in Kiev, Ukraine, I FEEL and KNOW I am feeling something awesome and that the dedication of that temple is/will be one of the most profound events of our modern era.
I have seen people come to Christ and know that they are a sinner and they come to tears. I have also seen a person bear witness that the gospel has been restored and the Book of Mormon is true. This person came to tears as well. I would guess that opponents of the church would validate the first and discredit the latter. I'm getting really tired of the double standard. I hear rants about how the BOM is untrue, and then hear how only Christ saves....Thats what the BOM is saying!!
"Postmodernists believe that truth is myth, and myth, truth. This equation has its roots in pop psychology. The same people also believe that emotions are a form of reality. There used to be another name for this state of mind. It used to be called psychosis." - Brad Holland
What the heart and mind can perceive is subject to differ. While the heart lets us experience life through feelings, it is the mind that validates the experience. If the object of one's faith is false, so is one's faith.
I fail to see the thesis statement for this video. You jabber on for a while about feelings and emotions through some convoluted claims, but nothing really solid or concrete. What are you driving at?
The fact of the matter is, subjective emotional manifestations are not reliable metrics for truth. How is the "Holy Ghost" anything more than a subjective emotional experience? I don't see what your point is, or how it could possibly help your case.
"How is the "Holy Ghost" anything more than a subjective emotional experience? I don't see what your point is, or how it could possibly help your case."
subjective emotional experience...
Well, I could have predicted that you would say that, and it is because you have NOT experienced the Holy Ghost, because if you did, you would feel the same way I do and not saying this to me. So, find it out man. Take the time and find it out. Don't think that your experience is "it."
Simply claiming that "I'll know it when I feel it" is not an answer. It also does nothing to alleviate the fact that it still boils down to attributing intense emotional experiences to "God."
Look, I've been to Church, I read the BoM, and I studied both plenty. At the end of the day, all you have to go on is a subjective experience that, for lack of any other explanations, you attribute to "God." I have yet to see anyone give me something more compelling beyond this. Please reconcile.
Along the pizza analogy, maybe you DID taste the pizza, but maybe it was the Little Caesars pizza variety, and not the Pasquale's pizza. There's got to be a range to things.
I mean, if Joseph Smith saw the two beings God the Father and Jesus Christ the Son, side by side, I can't say I have tasted THAT variety of the pizza (its quite the step up from even the Pasquales), but from what I have tasted, the Holy Ghost invisible variety, it works very well. I could never go back to Little Caesars.
"Look, I've been to Church, I read the BoM, and I studied both plenty. At the end of the day, all you have to go on is a subjective experience that, for lack of any other explanations, you attribute to "God.""
Again, there is a range. If I can accept that God the Father and Jesus Christ don't personally visit me like the visited Joseph Smith, but they are going to communicate with the masses thru the Holy Ghost, maybe you can accept that there are ranges to these experiences. Not all the same.
I can tell you with confidence that I have experienced more than some subjective emotional experience. Its like if I tasted combo pizza and all you ever had was wheat bread, you could say all day long that my enthusiasm for the pizza is just some subjective irrelevant and emotional experience. But until you actually TASTE it too, you could never know how great it was, and why there is so much to be enthusiastic about.
Great movie, great story, and yes, I am one of those like that rat Remy who knows how great the food tastes, and all the other rats just say, "yeah, whatever, its just fuel."
But when the Holy Ghost witnesses truth to you in a most sublime, amazing, spiritual way where your soul just got spoken to, well, there is nothing else like this experience, and yes, it is good enough to last a lifetime hanging on to what you now know is true.
Do you know see how entirely un-compelling this is?
1) Other religions offer the exact same thing.
2) Oxygen deprivation offers the exact same thing.
3) NDE's offer the exact same thing.
It doesn't matter how intense, tasty, or magical "The Spirit" is, because it is entirely reproducible. It therefore cannot be used as "evidence" for any external truth. I have felt more spiritual from watching "The Patriot" than from going to Conference. Is Mel Gibson therefore a prophet?
"I have felt more spiritual from watching "The Patriot" than from going to Conference. Is Mel Gibson therefore a prophet? "
No, it just means that you need to be operated on externally by production values, the same things that are "working" for other churches who hire the big choir, the professional musicians, and the eloquent orators who can pace around as they speak. Charisma driven "spirituality" where talent matters.
But the Holy Ghost is much more important than that.
So if your experience is from "The Holy Ghost," then what do you call it when an Evangelical parrots your exact same language in describing his/her testimony? They can't both be the Holy Ghost, because you both hold to mutually inconsistent beliefs.
"So if your experience is from "The Holy Ghost," then what do you call it when an Evangelical parrots your exact same language in describing his/her testimony? They can't both be the Holy Ghost, because you both hold to mutually inconsistent beliefs."
Absolutely right!
I can't tell you who to believe, but I can say that there are those who say they believe and experience something, but they don't.
Like you said, one of us would be lieing? God is not the author of confusion!
"what do you call it when an Evangelical parrots your exact same language in describing his/her testimony?"
You know, I have heard this hypothesis a lot, but personally, I have NEVER seen it or heard it. I have never heard an evangelical describe their experience as the same as mine, and therefore a quandry. It just doesn't happen.
Can you point me in the right direction, to an evangelical who says/said they experienced the same thing that I am describing, for instance? I'd like to watch.
I'm a convert to the LDS church of about 25+ years but I do recall the spirit prompting me towards the teachings of Christ when I was a youth. The settings, of course were a bit different but the spirit WAS there. It just didn't stay there as it does now. You can go to a revival or retreat and feel the spirit but it soon fades afterwards. That is why I kept going back. I wanted it all the time. So, to say "It just doesn't happen" might be a bit of a stretch.
What I meant by "it just doesn't happen" is that I have never heard an evangelical say "I know this church is true, and I have prayed about the Book of Mormon and know from the power of the Holy Ghost that this book is true. I felt it, I heard it, I perceived it, by the power of the Holy Ghost."
I have never seen any from the christian world embrace or espouse these testimonies. I am sure that they feel the Spirit from time to time, because as a missionary I saw that when teaching people. :)
Now this just does not make any sense to me at all, to say that one can reproduce the Holy Ghost. You mistake, because even though I have been given the gift of the Holy Ghost, I can't just turn that faucet on when I will it. I can't. It just happens, and when it happens, it usually happens when you don't expect it. Movies are predictable. The Holy Ghost is not.
Trust in your brain, and only your brain. Don't trust your eyes. Don't trust in your feelings.
Good advice:
Trust in your brain, AND your eyes, AND your feelings, etc. Put it all together and make the most intelligent decision. Don't get faked out by an emotion, for sure, but please trust in what may be a REACTION to something that God did within us, namely, the Holy Ghost.
Also, remember that "Jesus wept." There is no shame in it.
"Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world." "But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed."
JoshLikesMusic 8 months ago
@JoshLikesMusic Those are good scriptures. There are many false prophets in the world today. Some of them are in government positions of power, others lead churches not set up by the Lord, and others just preach false and foolish doctrines of MAN and teach people to sin and that its ok, there is no harm in it, or they teach that there is no God and live for now. All kinds of false prophets.
There are also TRUE PROPHETS and APOSTLES and I testify that they do lead the LDS Church from Utah.
mormonanswerman 8 months ago
I have cried at many a church service. I sometimes cry when I hear the good news that Christ died for us. I am a sensitive guy. But my tears and convictions do not make what I believe true. "The heart is deceitful and desperately wicked above all things; who can know it?" "There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death."
JoshLikesMusic 8 months ago
@JoshLikesMusic It must be strange and hollow to have spiritual experiences, feel things, and then brush all that off as meaningless because you are afraid of deceiving yourself. I think you are already deceiving yourself by brushing these things off and ignoring them like they might be "desperately wicked" or something nonsensical like that. Fact is, you felt something, you cried as a result, you were blessed by it. There is good in all churches and God will love the person, not the church
mormonanswerman 8 months ago
Luke 24:32 says, "And they said one to another, Did not our heart bburn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?" This is how the men knew it was Jesus that they spoke with. To those that say we should not trust our feelings, how does the Holy Ghost manifest itself and testify of truth if not to our heart?
LDStothecore 1 year ago
@LDStothecore The Holy Spirit manifests itself through miracles, as recorded in Acts. But it also manifests itself in that it pronounces to us the truth regarding Christ. The problem is, there are many spirits in this world, and our feelings are not perfect. "Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world." How do we know the Holy Spirit? It always agrees with itself, and by extension with the Bible.
JoshLikesMusic 8 months ago
@JoshLikesMusic "How do we know the Holy Spirit? It always agrees with itself, and by extension with the Bible."
I don't even know what that means!! You are speaking vague and strange things, why can't you be more PLAIN like me? At least you know what I am saying. I am saying that God gave us feelings to feel, a heart to love people and things, and NOT to hate people with. SURE I know a heart can be wicked... but Jesus taught us to LOVE our ENEMIES so I do know how to use my heart. To LOVE.
mormonanswerman 8 months ago
Luke 24:32 says, "And they said one to another, Did not our heart bburn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?" This is how the men knew it was Jesus that they spoke with.
LDStothecore 1 year ago
This idiot just took 10 minutes to say that tears can't be faked.
qmeche123 1 year ago 2
@qmeche123 I think that's true. People do fake tears, but in order to get those tears going they certainly have to feel something. All I said was that tears don't PROVE anything when it comes to truth. Its just an outward sign that something is going on inside that person with emotions. Who knows what actors need to think about to get their phony tears going... but they do know how to intensify those FEELINGS within them.
I am saying DON'T TRUST THAT. Trust God instead. Revelation!
mormonanswerman 1 year ago
@crazy456eyes You are not coming across as very educated on this, because back then, polygamy was NOT against any laws of the land. If you will research you will find that many many many years later AFTER Joseph Smith was killed/martyred, in 1892 the US Congress passed the EDMUNDS TUCKER ACT which made polygamy illegal. Don't you know your history? Joseph Smith was a LAWFUL man in every way. Mormons as a general rule always have been, and are not anarchists.
mormonanswerman 1 year ago
Soooooo... Proverbs 28:26 or Romans 10:17 mean nothing to you? Tears are a neural reaction and are not a testimony to anything. lol Don't get me wrong, I am not bashing crying as long as it is fueled by the right things.
willeilers1 1 year ago
@willeilers1 Why don't you just put the TEXT of PROVERBS up there so we can read it easily and see that it supports what I am actually doing here: 26 He that trusteth in his own heart is a fool: but whoso walketh wisely, he shall be delivered.
I preach against that in this video. You are supporting me and you don't even seem to realize it. Listen to the video, I explicitly address this and talk of what a testimony REALLY is. Its NOT emotions. It is revelation, Holy Ghost. Seek that.
mormonanswerman 1 year ago
@mormonanswerman Well I'm glad you caught on :) don't be so quick to assume someone is attacking you. Oh and you forgot to address Romans 10:17
willeilers1 1 year ago
Hey man, but how do explain the FLDS? They are taught to pray to God on whether THEIR church is the true church. They pray to know if Warren Jeffs is a true living prophet and they receive the same - spiritual - feeling you do. I'm not trying to be nasty, but i just want to make you think on whether feelings can deceive.
crazy456eyes 1 year ago
@crazy456eyes You are falsely PROJECTING onto the FLDS the same experience that I had, that we have. That's just a huge assumption on your part, and you got it wrong. You even go so far as to use the word SAME when describing what happens spiritually, as if you were the GOD who gave that to each of us qualifying you to actually say that... but you are not God, and you don't know a thing about other people's personal spiritual lives, or the answers that they get from God through prayer.
mormonanswerman 1 year ago
@mormonanswerman How do you know i am - falsely projecting the same feeling -? Have you experienced the feeling the FLDS have had? They are shown the same scripture where it says to pray to God to know if what they have been taught is true just the same as you have and that's how they know it to be true, as do you. So yes, it is the same feeling, since they both come from the same source, the BofM. Someone is wrong, right? Or both wrong.
crazy456eyes 1 year ago
@crazy456eyes How do I know? Because these are two very different things and results, that's how. I do know that. It is YOU that is saying it is all the same thing, but you don't even know HALF of this, because you are neither LDS or FLDS.
mormonanswerman 1 year ago
@mormonanswerman Sorry i didn't realize you had felt what the FLDS had felt, my bad. I was LDS so i know what feeling you are talking about too. The FLDS explain the exact same feeling that Joseph (their prophet) testified they would feel. Are you saying their feeling's are false witnesses, and your's aren't?
crazy456eyes 1 year ago
@crazy456eyes I pray about individual things. It is possible to get a testimony that the Book of Mormon is true without even being a member of this church, so I am not surprised that FLDS would say that too. But their prophet is false, he breaks the laws of the land, and has landed himself in hot water with the law. He is no effective prophet, in fact, he is a pedofile. You can't accuse that of Pres. Thomas Monson, who is a REAL prophet of God and the only man on this earth who has the keys.
mormonanswerman 1 year ago
Your first few minutes of this video rely on the premise that your senses are 100% accurate. They aren't and they can be misled. This is why we don't depend on a single sense for verification, as you were suggesting. Only when we combine senses do we increase the certainty of an experience.
This holds true for everyone including their faith.
Spectre11B 1 year ago
@Spectre11B That's true sometimes. But when I hit my thumb with a hammer, should I trust my feelings that I damaged my thumb?
mormonanswerman 1 year ago
Feelings don't prove anything, if it did all religions would be the same. Everyone
who is involved in any type of spirituality can tell you of their feelings. How they feel what they believe is true. If someone is basing truth on feelings alone, then its not enough..
justcary 1 year ago
Feelings don't prove anything, if it did all religions would be the same. Everyone
who is involved in any type of spirituality can tell you of their feelings. How they feel what they believe is true. If someone is basing truth on feelings alone, then its not enough..
justcary 1 year ago
@justcary I agree with that. But the exception to the rule is that one gets deceived by feelings. Most people who feel good about what they learn are probably right. It was probably good. Why not? How many people do YOU know that felt bad when they ate a square meal? How many people feel good when they hit their thumb with a hammer? I think our feelings are a very good indicator of when we have experienced something good or bad. When you throw up its because you're sick or ate bad food?
mormonanswerman 1 year ago
"a fool find pleasure in evil conduct" Proverbs 10:23
Finally found the Biblical proof to show that you were wrong. Please, show me your Biblical proof that people of evil do not delight in evil?
Remember Jeremiah 17:9
Bootychocolate 1 year ago
@Bootychocolate but to ME, pleasure is not the same thing as happiness. Maybe that's where we disagree? Sinful people can have pleasure, and indeed, that is the enticement, the lure, the temptation. But sinful people do not have HAPPINESS because God gives us happiness as a result of our obedience to His commandments and way of life. If we are good He blesses us with His Spirit and that makes us happy, truly happy.
Sins don't.
mormonanswerman 1 year ago
@mormonanswerman Proverbs 2:14 "who delight in doing wrong and rejoice in the perverseness of evil," Here is the problem... you are not talking about "happiness" or ending in happiness... but mormonism talks of a "burning in the bosom" and uses good feelings to point to truth... not happiness... but a delight or pleasure... again it is not easy following christ (christ said it himself)... if the path is not HARD, and not easy, and evil rejoice in things to confirm what they want... and--
Bootychocolate 1 year ago
@Bootychocolate DELIGHT and REJOICE is NOT happiness. Happiness comes from the Lord. As long as we can agree with definitions, I think that we can agree, otherwise, its all semantics.
What are you really trying to prove or say here, anyway? That it is somehow impossible to be happy in this life? That this happiness may be our own self deception or something, and that there is no formula for happiness in this life? Is that what you are saying?
It sounds like you haven't found happiness yet.
mormonanswerman 1 year ago
@mormonanswerman Show me the line in the Bible that says you are going to be rewarded with happiness now on earth for being good... it doesnt say that, its in your head. But he will lead you perfect happiness. Why do you continue to make it about me? I have never made this personal. I am simply talking about the ideology and the flaws of what you are saying. People enjoy being evil... stop living in this fake mind set and kidding yourself...
Bootychocolate 1 year ago
@Bootychocolate All you have to do is go to lds website and look at the scripture program there under gospel library and search for happiness to find all the MANY scriptures in the Bible and Book of Mormon that speak of how living the gospel of Jesus Christ brings happiness. True happiness. For example:
Ps. 144:15 Happy is that people, that is in such a case: yea, happy is that people, whose God is the Lord.
Ps. 146:5 Happy is he ...whose hope is in the Lord his God
mormonanswerman 1 year ago
More:
Prov. 16: 20 He that handleth a matter wisely shall find good: and whoso trusteth in the Lord, happy is he.
Prov. 14: 21 He that despiseth his neighbour sinneth: but he that hath mercy on the poor, happy is he.
Prov. 29:18 Where there is no vision, the people perish: but he that keepeth the law, happy is he.
James 5:11 Behold, we count them happy which endure.
1 Pet. 4:14 If ye be reproached for the name of Christ, happy are ye; for the spirit of glory and of God resteth upon you:
mormonanswerman 1 year ago
@mormonanswerman I agree that evil reaps destruction... but it does not mean it is the hard way or the painful way all of the time. Most of the time it is the easier choice and the way that brings instant gratification.
Bootychocolate 1 year ago
@mormonanswerman Look up the definition of happiness on dictionary com on the internet... it says nothing of long term. But to be happy or the be in happiness... using your definition of happiness, is i'm assuming to be satisfied. But the problem IS that this is NOT what we are discussing at all. Because to be satisfied is extremely different from happiness. People delight in their evil... and yet you say that delight is the INDICATOR for TRUTH... so how can we rely on this?
Bootychocolate 1 year ago
@Bootychocolate Don't assume it means "satisfied" I quoted a scripture from Peter that says it all, says how I feel about it. Here is is again:
1 Pet. 4:14 If ye be reproached for the name of Christ, happy are ye; for the spirit of glory and of God resteth upon you:
The last portion of the phrase is WHY we are happy, BECAUSE "the spirit of glory and of God resteth upon you."
That's why. Its because of that Holy Spirit which gives peace, assurance, all those great feelings.
mormonanswerman 1 year ago
@mormonanswerman I understand that the evil cannot find satisfaction in their ways without God, but people can FEEL satisfied, if that makes sense. When we speak in terms of NOW it might be nicer to choose evil because it delivers quick.... but when we talk of eternity or periods of extended time, it is not even comparable. The point im making is this, when you are evil you can feel "happy" and think you have found truth through your feelings, just as you say you feel.
Bootychocolate 1 year ago
@Bootychocolate I think we are getting close to agreement here, as long as you are not saying that the feelings of "happiness" that the sinner feels are equal the feelings of happiness that I feel from choosing the serve the Lord...? Because they are not the same, which is why I resist using the same word, happiness, to describe the two. I want to say that the sinner is experiencing FUN, but not happiness.
Are we "happy" at Disneyland, or just having FUN? To me, a HUGE difference.
mormonanswerman 1 year ago
@mormonanswerman ---and the Bible directly says that the heart is deceitful, then we can safely assume from all of this that happiness and good feelings do not point to truth. In fact, Jesus said, Blessed are the poor in spirit, Blessed are they that mourn, Blessed are the meek, Blessed are they that hunger and thirst after righteousness... for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets that were before you. PERSECUTED and MEEK, NOT happiness NOW yet rejoice...
Bootychocolate 1 year ago
@Bootychocolate So the heart can be deceitful. I know that. But the heart can also be NOT deceitful. It goes both ways.
Listen, the BRAIN can be deceitful especially if someone is very uneducated and can be easily FOOLED. I say, so? The brain is still good for great knowledge TOO.
Just like the HEART is great for knowing how it feels to feel the Holy Ghost. It goes both ways.
Eyes can be deceitful too. We might see an optical illusion. So? Eyes can be NOT deceitful too. Your point?
mormonanswerman 1 year ago
@mormonanswerman Does the Bible say its both ways? The Bible says "the heart IS IS IS IS IS IS IS IS IS deceitful" not sometimes, or it can happen. Its not a matter of "so what?" 's. Its not my point by the way, its the BIBLES POINT. I'm just quoting it. But the point i was making with it was that when you use your heart or feelings to point to truth and we know for a FACT that the heart deceives how can we truly trust our heart for truth when the bible says otherwise?
Bootychocolate 1 year ago
@Bootychocolate The Bible says in ONE ONE ONE ONE ONE ONE ONE verse that the heart is deceitful, but in TWENTY TWENTY TWENTY others actually talks up the heart as a good thing. I guess it goes both ways, the heart, but it actually is a force for GOOD in more ways. Does God dwell in the heart, for instance?
Eph. 3:17 That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love,
Hmm, Bible says that good things can dwell there. I think the heart is good.
mormonanswerman 1 year ago
@mormonanswerman If we could completely rely on feelings why would we need discipline, why would we need a book? why would the good path be a difficult one? Why are we persecuted? If the heart points to truth why dont all people know the truth? IF the heart points to truth arent all people correct? Think of the philosophical meaning behind this extreme statement. If the heart points to truth then drugs that FEEL GOOD, would be great for you.. because things that FEEL GOOD would be good.
Bootychocolate 1 year ago
@Bootychocolate Ok, I don't COMPLETELY rely on feelings. I just recognize that God gives us GODLY feelings, like that scripture:
Eph. 3:17 That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love,
proving to me that the heart and the feelings there can be good, and can be a force for recognizing good and right things, or even truth. I value the heart, because the Bible does. It makes sense too.
mormonanswerman 1 year ago
@Bootychocolate I get persecuted here on YOUTUBE all the time. I believe in the words of Jesus Christ that great shall be the reward. But I don't rejoice in it. I am saddened by the hateful people spewing F Bombs, and multiple derogatory and perjorative terms, the name calling, the despising, and the hateful murderous comments uttered by nameless people behind a computer keyboard in the darkness of a basement. I say so? They are cowards anyway, and there is nothing joyful in their behavior
mormonanswerman 1 year ago
@mormonanswerman Your persecution is nothing in-comparison to the 176,000 christians killed a year for their faith alone. Mormons are anything but persecuted, although they love to claim otherwise. Why dont you rejoice in the hardship? The Bible says to... F-bombs sadden you?! there are worse things... i got over that in middle school. you can say cuss words and be one of the greatest people, its really trivial, but meaning in words is relative. Funny though that you ignored my claims.
Bootychocolate 1 year ago
@Bootychocolate I know that my persecutions are minimal, even insignificant. I enjoy great freedom in my world, and I have not experienced terrible things, yet. I do believe they are coming, however.
mormonanswerman 1 year ago
@Bootychocolate No, you can't "safely" assume that happiness and good feelings don't point to truth. I say they DO. Absolutely! It in fact PROVES that you are doing something right and the Lord is blessing you.
If you ascribe good feelings to the devil, you are deceived. If you ascribe happiness to the devil, then you are also deceived. If that is YOUR gospel, it is truly ANOTHER gospel as spoken of in Galatians.
Jesus said my yoke is EASY and my burden is LIGHT. I want that.
mormonanswerman 1 year ago
@mormonanswerman You say im deceived and yet have no backing. You just wish to believe that the devil could never be something pleasing... But the Bible describes satan as deceiving and as an angel of light, as the most pleasing, the greatest counterfeit, capable of miracles, if the devil was in front of you the devil would be beautiful, attractive and likable.
Bootychocolate 1 year ago
@Bootychocolate Now pleasing is not happiness. Pleasing is something that could be related to food, sex, or even the weather. It is not a synonym for happiness, because someone could be pleased in their wickedness, in their sins. Pleasing has to do with pleasure. Being pleased. This is different from serving the Lord.
I still think this is all SEMANTICS, and we should just acknowledge that there are GODLY FEELINGS. Its real.
mormonanswerman 1 year ago
@Bootychocolate I understand that Jesus was giving comforting words to those who are going through hell because of the ACTIONS of OTHERS.
Jesus is NOT communicating that living the gospel brings unhappiness and sorrow and mourning. He is NOT saying that. He is merely saying that the day will yet come for those that ARE persecuted that it will be NO MORE.
But not everyone is experiencing the same things, are they? I experience a level of respect in the United States. No one burns my house down
mormonanswerman 1 year ago
@mormonanswerman It doesnt bring it in the long run... but what did the apostles do, what did Jesus do? They all greatly suffered for their beliefs. It is not a matter of living "your best life now".... God wants us to be happy, but emphasizes discipline and hardship for those he loves! Being blessed doesnt mean always having everything.
Bootychocolate 1 year ago
@Bootychocolate They were HAPPY in their sufferings, as Peter talked about, because of the spirit and glory of God that rests upon you. THAT's what brings the happiness, NOT the pain of the persecutions. Pain is no fun and very undesirable, but when it happens to you because of your belief in Christ, then Christ is going to send His Spirit to COMFORT you. Peace.
1 Pet. 4:14 If ye be reproached for the name of Christ, happy are ye; for the spirit of glory and of God resteth upon you:
mormonanswerman 1 year ago
Doesnt it feel great to eat that big mac? especially three of em? Doesnt most sin feel good in the short term? ABSOLUTELY, does it make it right? NO. Did you ever see nazis cry or say wow this is terrible. Or bodies tell us not to follow good things, thats why its not an appealing choice to most. Just think, by saying what you are saying you debunk your entire religion at the same time logically.
Bootychocolate 1 year ago
@Bootychocolate NO, it does NOT feel good to eat three big macs. It would make you feel terrible. So if its a sin to eat three big macs, it certainly is not a sin that feels good. A stretched tummy is actually quite painful.
AND... we should PAY ATTENTION to those feelings.
Why is it that the antimormons come up with such illogical things passing it off as some good point made, when they actually made a bad point?
mormonanswerman 1 year ago
This man is absolutely deceived... this is why he does not understand. Do you honestly think that the billions of hindus, muslims, buddhists, sikhs, satanists, new agers, do you honestly think any of these people feel BAD about what they do? You have to be kidding me! You think hitler felt bad accomplishing what he set out to do? NO WAY! they im sure were jumping for joy, smiling, happy as a dog! Think logically here, it is easier in fact to be evil, and not choose against your instincts.
Bootychocolate 1 year ago
@Bootychocolate What an amazing argument you make!
You argue that everybody FEELS GOOD about their religion, but that it compares to Hitler's "good" feelings while murdering 6,000,000 Jews. Now THAT's LOGIC!
I give you kudos for making sense.
mormonanswerman 1 year ago
@mormonanswerman Is it easier to be lazy or to make good choices? When you run or lift weights does your body not scream NOOOO! stop this is difficult? Is it not easier to not train hard... but in the end it is more beneficial. Mormonism advertises happiness now, christianity advertises happiness in the end.. like a work out, but joy in your heart from knowing, much like a work out or run.
Bootychocolate 1 year ago
@Bootychocolate If anyone can be accused of working hard, it is the Mormons.
I disagree that christianity advertises happiness in the end. In fact, you can find most of them preaching HELL FIRE and DAMNATION for everyone else not thinking like they do, in the end.
Mormons teach of the three heavens, the kingdoms of God that await. We teach happiness now AND then. Our purpose IS to be happy. To find out how. And to keep it for all eternity. It is IN the FAMILY.
mormonanswerman 1 year ago
@mormonanswerman yes mocker, he did feel great, that is the atrocity.
Bootychocolate 1 year ago
@Bootychocolate Well, that's you speculation I guess. You did talk to him personally to know all this, right?
All I know is that the SCRIPTURES teach that wickedness was NEVER happiness. I'll stick with the SCRIPTURES rather than your opinions of what you think Hitler thought and how he personally felt about all that he did. God doesn't give happiness to those that murder. He takes His happiness AWAY, actually.
mormonanswerman 1 year ago
mormonanswerman 1 year ago
@Bootychocolate "im sure were jumping for joy, smiling, happy as a dog!"
jumping for "joy?" Smiling? Happy?
If you think this is what Nazi's did when they murdered people, you have not seen the pictures. Wickedness was never happiness, and it doesn't get more wicked than what they did. They were stressed and hateful people, suspicious of all, trusting of no one, and murdering all who might challenge them. Not happy.
mormonanswerman 1 year ago
@camdawg7 Well Santa Claus really IS devilish if it is having this effect on young people. I think that it depends on how it is done. If parents teach faith on Jesus Christ and God the Father, those kids are going to be fine.
The flying spaghetti monster is an atheist straw man because the compare this imaginary silly thing to God to mock and pull down the importance of God. However we have so many PROOFS that there IS a God even without seeing Him. We see His creations that are self evident
mormonanswerman 1 year ago
my mom came to me in a dream with the missionaries saying to follow them. and i did brother and im so glad that i joined the church i found the love of my life and i found salvation only that this church can bring.
Jesus is the christ
jonnygotz2343 1 year ago
thanks brother for this i need to make more videos
jonnygotz2343 1 year ago
Many preachers are teaching their people to not trust in their feelings, that they can be deceived by their feelings!! And those listeners trust and believe it at face value, because, I have had on more than one occasion been told by a well-meaning Christian that I shouldnt trust in my feelings
omiolo 1 year ago
I agree with you that all we have to go on is our feelings, or it at least makes up a big part of who we are and how we come to conclusions. But if we pray about something, say the book of mormon, we feel things like a burning in the bosom, peace, sometimes nothing, sometimes confusion. When we pray and feel the good feelings how can we know that those feelings are from a god and not just feelings that we get in certain circumstances?
camdawg7 2 years ago
Some things we just have to experience to know.
Like a bungee jump. I have never done it, and never will, but I can not say that it is not exciting because the people who HAVE done it swear by it being one of the most exciting things ever. I think its psycho and I can't get past the idea that I might die.
I think many Christians are the same way about the TRUE doctrines that I have discovered through searching and prayer, but THEY WON'T TRY IT. Scared, I guess.
mormonanswerman 2 years ago
So what I am saying in a round about way, is that until one does experience the feelings of the Holy Ghost giving answers to prayers so that you not only feel things but you perceive things, intelligence, etc., there is nothing like it! You will know, and you will know it was something very special given from God. You just know by experience.
mormonanswerman 2 years ago
Well i have gone skydiving and it wasn't all the big hullabaloo everyone says it is, so you can't trust other people.
Yes i have prayed about it and many other things and gotten the answer in the way the D&C describes as well as other answers it does not describe, so I understand WHAT it feels like. I just can't reconcile to myself HOW I can know that those feelings were from God?
camdawg7 2 years ago
All I can say is that this is where faith comes into play, because you have to let go enough to turn your belief into knowledge. I can say that for me, these tests, these spiritual tests that I have done, as you have done, are the proof, and the repetition of it, to me at least, is the turning of this belief into knowledge, so that you KNOW. Repetition turns it into knowledge. I have had it validated again and again for many decades since my teenage years. I do know now. SO confident.
mormonanswerman 2 years ago
@camdawg7
But when we say "the feelings in our heart" we are TALKING about how the spirit testified to us.
Joshua 2:11 "And as soon as we had heard these things our hearts did melt, neither did there remain any more courage in any man, because of you: for the Lord your God, he is God in heaven above, and in earth beneath"
Romans 8:27 "And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the Saints according to the will of God"
imtherealthing 2 years ago
@camdawg7
Matthew 12:39 "...An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it"
imtherealthing 2 years ago
@camdawg7
Col.2:8
Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
Ask yourself..is the reason why you "don't feel the Spirit" is because you have hardened your heart..or are sinning?..that is ALWAYS the case.
imtherealthing 2 years ago
Everyone is sinning.. ALWAYS. I wouldn't consider my self a sinner as far as the big ones go, I follow all the counsel from the prophet as best I can (though there is always room for improvement) And it seems the case that whenever someone doubts the church and brings it up with friends or leaders the case is ALWAYS "well you must be sinning and have a hardened heart." My heart is far from hard. I have no idea what to believe now, and it changes from day to day.
camdawg7 2 years ago
And I have felt the same feelings that people say are the spirit. But how do I know these feelings are from God? How do you know peace is from God? Or a burning in the bosom? Or silence? How can we know these feelings are from a god?
camdawg7 2 years ago
I do believe we can over analyze things so that we again begin to doubt. What we ought to do is try the test, like you have done, and see if we can repeat this test. Its the same as science. You know how many scientists KNOW what they "know" (even if it is a theory like evolution), because of the repetition of their experiments. They also RELY on repetition and being able to reproduce to turn those theories into theorems!
It happens spiritually too. Embrace it. Trust in it. Run with it.
mormonanswerman 2 years ago
Why can we over analyze? The test is anything but repeatable. It is different every time. Most of the time there is nothing. If it were the same every time, to me at least, it seems that meditating on a certain thing could produce the same results every time because you are doing the same thing. That still doesn't mean the feelings came from god? It just proves that you will feel those feelings in those circumstances.
camdawg7 2 years ago
That has not been my experience, but there have been times when it is difficult to feel the Spirit. There are times when I try to pray, but can't feel much or I feel distant. A prophet has said that when this happens we can read the scriptures, a proven activity that brings the Spirit, and then we can pray more easily. There are time tested things that we can do to have success in this, and reading the scriptures, singing hymns, they all help very much on this. They lay the groundwork.
mormonanswerman 2 years ago
Part of the test or experiment is knowing that we can't control the timing of the outcome. When one petitions the Lord, they don't control the Lord, they wait upon him patiently. That's just the way it works, and we can't control that. So I agree with you that it is not the same every time because sometimes there is nothing, YET. But if we wait, the SAME THING HAPPENS, every time. It has been so with me.
Its just a timing thing. Its really a TEST of faith that is taking place. God tests us.
mormonanswerman 2 years ago
And how long do we wait? Someone that is searching out this religion can't wait for 10 years to get an answer. There are hundreds to thousands of other religions that one needs to experiment with if they are searching for a true religion. Seeing as the average man only lives approximately 75 yrs in the US that leaves much less than a year per religion. I've had this same question for the past 9 years since my mission and still no answer.
camdawg7 2 years ago
It will not take 10 years. When I said wait patiently on the Lord, I was thinking up to a day or so of praying fervently. Enos prayed all day, and then into the night too, until he finally got an answer. But he did pray for 8 - 16 hours straight. Have you done that? I would do that if you really want an answer. The Lord will deliver on the really faithful effort.
mormonanswerman 1 year ago
I don't know that I've ever prayed for 8-16 hours straight on my knees, but i have fasted and prayed for almost 2 days straight and I would consider that "praying" for >24hrs straight. Is that the time limit then? Because it doesn't sound right to say
"well you really need to try and pray for at least 24-36 hours straight before you really know." I don't think there is anywhere in the scriptures that gives a "time limit" I think the idea is that you are sincerely searching.
camdawg7 1 year ago
@camdawg7 " I don't think there is anywhere in the scriptures that gives a "time limit" "
Jesus fasted and prayed for 40 days in a wilderness before he was ready to begin his 3 year ministry. There is a great example in that.
I think the time limit is whatever it needs to be, until we get our answers. If we quit after a day, then that might have been our own impatience. Only WE really know if we quit or not. You just know, spiritually, whether you are going to get an answer.
mormonanswerman 1 year ago
@mormonanswerman You mentioned that you just know, spiritually, whether you are going to get an answer. I "feel" like I'm not going to get an answer. Should I consider this a spiritual feeling that I won't get an answer. How should I interpret this?
camdawg7 1 year ago
@camdawg7 If you feel like you are not going to get an answer, this could be doubts, OR it could be a prompting that the Lord is not going to give you a specific answer yet.
I was once told by the Spirit in response to a serious question posed to God several years ago, that I would NOT get an answer until I went to a more sacred place to pray. I did, then I did get an answer, but the Lord was not going to answer me in the way I wanted, but the way He wants to and thinks is best.
mormonanswerman 1 year ago
@mormonanswerman So how do I know if it is doubts or if he just doesn't want to answer me yet or if there is just no god at all? How do you distinguish between these? I've prayed in the most sacred place I can think of a few times, but now I can't renew my recommend because I can't sincerely answer the question about belief in God.
camdawg7 1 year ago
@camdawg7 The temple is a sacred place, but its hard to pray there. Go to the mountains, a sacred grove, a wilderness, some of the most wonderful prayers have been answered in those places, including mine, and you don't need a temple recommend to go there. Just go with faith, and believe.
mormonanswerman 1 year ago
@mormonanswerman It's not hard to pray in the temple? I always liked to pray and sit and ponder in the celestial room after endowments. I have prayed in wilderness areas, and the only answer I ever get is that the sun is shining on me or it's raining or it smells fresh. I don't consider those feelings answers from a god, just acknowledgement of my senses and the world around me. But the problem isn't where I pray, but how we interpret the "answers" we get from prayer or meditation.
camdawg7 1 year ago
@camdawg7 If am in the wilderness and feel the sun, or the rain, or the fresh smells of nature, that merely puts me in a mode of thankfulness to my Father in Heaven, it has not put me in a spiritual mode to hear answers to prayer. That comes from a deep humility that starts by kneeling down, shutting out the temporal world, pondering and seriously considering REAL communication with a heavenly being, namely, Heavenly Father. Its real, but you have to get yourself "tuned in" by faith in Christ
mormonanswerman 1 year ago
@mormonanswerman I couldn't agree more that REAL communication with a god (if there is a god?)comes from shutting out the temporal world and with humility/humbleness. But "tuned in" by faith in Christ? How can I have faith in Christ if my very question is whether or not god exists?
camdawg7 1 year ago
@camdawg7 "How can I have faith in Christ if my very question is whether or not god exists?"
You have to try the test. It's like science experiments. You have to have all ingredients and conditions present in a science experiment to get a repeat on the experiment. Same with spiritual things.
You need:
faith in Christ
real intent
belief
sincerity
and you need to ASK things, and WAIT patiently for answers. I do know that this works, and if it doesn't for you yet, examine each condition...
mormonanswerman 1 year ago
@camdawg7 you CAN'T be thinking IF. If you are thinking IF, its going to make it NOT work. IF thoughts are the OPPOSITE of FAITH. If you are thinking IF, then you are doubting. Doubt is going to sink this experiment. You have to believe. Go there with a child like belief. LET GO man! Let go of your adult doubts, approach God in child like humble faith in prayer and BELIEVE that He exists. Don't doubt it, that sinks it, and you miss the miracle as a result. Stop thinking IF and BELIEVE!
mormonanswerman 1 year ago
@mormonanswerman Well, it makes more sense to me that there isn't a god. I don't understand how if I don't think there is an invisible man in the sky, how do I just believe that he is? I can't just make myself believe?! belief comes through proofs, not from nothing. That's like asking someone to believe in a purpleheaded people eater that will grant you any wish. How do I just make myself believe there is a purpleheaded people eater? You can't do that, there needs to be evidence/proof.
camdawg7 1 year ago
@camdawg7 No, the purple headed people eater and the flying spaghetti monster are two of the stupidest atheist straw men ever constructed to make a point. Believing in God is not like believing in one of those things at all. Believing in God is a NATURAL result of being a human. When people stop believing in God, it is because they have deceived THEMSELVES by talking themselves out of it, like this. You don't have to make yourself believe, you have to make yourself UNbelieve. That's hard!
mormonanswerman 1 year ago
@camdawg7 belief doesn't come through proofs! It comes from letting go of those "proofs" that would make you think you know it all already, when you don't.
When Peter saw Christ walk on the water and asked if he could too, how believing was that? Very. A person thinking like you are thinking would want some "proof" that he won't sink. Peter did sink, when he began to doubt, but for a short time, he did indeed walk on the water and Peter had great FAITH to do that. then, DISTRACTED by DOUBT.
mormonanswerman 1 year ago
@mormonanswerman I still don't understand how belief works exactly or what your definition is of belief? Can you give an example of belief that I can associate with, something in my time period. Also if you could explain the difference between faith and belief. I looked up some definitions of belief and more than half include some form of evidences to persuade one of something, so your definition may differ and that's ok, I just want to be on the same page as you.
camdawg7 1 year ago
@camdawg7 If you would be on the same page as I am on, you would FIRST believe in Jesus Christ as the Son of God. I can not relate to someone who is actually doubting the existence of God. That seems such a far and impossible thought to me! I can not imagine actually thinking that way or worrying about that, I am so sure that there IS a God. Have you never experienced ANY miracles in your life? Have you never had any communication of any sort from God, ANY answers to prayers, ever?
mormonanswerman 1 year ago
@mormonanswerman Ah, but before I believe Christ is the son of God I need to believe in a god! But I think I get your gist. As far as miracles go.. I only see miracles as unlikely events or unexplainable events. To me that does not constitute a reason to think "well I don't understand this or that so there must be a god!" I and the world don't understand a lot but that doesn't mean there is a god.
camdawg7 1 year ago
@mormonanswerman And as for unlikely events. Say you play the lotto (I know you wouldn't but it's an example on probabilities and god) and you have a 1/100000000 chance of winning. now you pray that you would win and you end up winning. Now imagine how many people probably believed in god and prayed for the same thing when they played. It would seem pretty likely that someone that prayed for winning actually won and thought "what are the chances?! must've been that god wanted me to win!"
camdawg7 1 year ago
@mormonanswerman But the chances that someone won that believed in god won is actually pretty likely. Now you say "well that's the lotto and I don't think god cares about the lotto." rightly so. now I apply this to the billions that pray for things like being cured from cancer. What are the chances? not likley but it happens and we don't fully understand why. now we don't hear much from the people that just died and weren't cured. their excuse is, "gods ways are not man's" or something.
camdawg7 1 year ago
@mormonanswerman But the people that were cured and EVEN against what the doctor said! Well again, it's not like doctors are gods and understand exactly how a disease will progress with every person because every person is different and reacts differently to treatments. So people usually think "well the doctor said I would die and I didn't! So there, that's proof of god's ways not being in line with the doctors" I hope you could understand how I could see this as not a miracle.
camdawg7 1 year ago
@mormonanswerman Sorry I really do suck at getting my thoughts and ideas coherently out of my head so others can understand, and it's hard when this youtube stuff is so disjointed.
camdawg7 1 year ago
@mormonanswerman And I forgot to answer your last question! Any communication or answers? Well that is exactly what I'm unsure of because it seems I have had all the "usual" answers people tend to get i.e. burning in the bosom, peace, comfort, silence, serenity, confusion, doubt, goosebumps, excitement, and a whole host of other feelings. But what I can't seem to reconcile is how I can know that these feelings are from a god? How do I know these "answers" aren't just produced by me?
camdawg7 1 year ago
@camdawg7 All GOOD things come from God. That I know, and that's something that you can know too. I think what you need to know is that you already know. You are making it difficult because you already know, but you are doubting and overanalyzing it, and I too could go there, but I LIKE the peace and happiness that comes to me by being obedient to the things that God has given to me. I think you should too. :)
mormonanswerman 1 year ago
@mormonanswerman if I believed he existed I wouldn't have to pray about whether or not he exists now would I? You can't make beliefs up, that is the definition of "make-belief". If I make my beliefs up then that concludes to me that there is no God, because the only reason to just believe is because you don't have a foundation of evidence. That puts me at a standstill as to what faith is for... I don't think I understand faith. I guess faith could make sense AFTER you find out god exists.
camdawg7 1 year ago
@camdawg7 belief is not knowledge. YES you do have to pray to KNOW that He exists. Otherwise you just believe.
When people stop believing, they are no longer like a child, that WOULD believe.
Faith is what will allow a person who wants to KNOW that God exists, and not merely believe in it. If you don't even believe in it, you are in the position that you now find yourself, blinded by the craftiness of the atheists with their lame arguments in pseudo logic, like spaghetti monsters...
mormonanswerman 1 year ago
@camdawg7 What is faith? and how do you get it? You have to TRY. You have to TRY an experiment. If you are struggling without any desire to even try, then you are not in a position where you can get some faith, and THEN get answers to prayers. Alma taught:
Alma 32:27 ...experiment upon my words and exercise a particle of faith, yea, even if ye can no more than desire to believe, let this desire work in you, even until ye believe in a manner that ye can give place for a portion of my words.
mormonanswerman 1 year ago
@camdawg7 Alma 32:28 Now, we will compare the word unto a seed. Now, if ye give place, that a seed may be planted in your heart, behold, if it be a good seed, if ye do not cast it out by your unbelief, that ye will resist the Spirit of the Lord, behold, it will begin to swell within your breasts; and when you feel these swelling motions, ye will begin to say within yourselves, it must needs be that this is a good seed, that the word is good, for it beginneth to enlarge my soul,..my understanding
mormonanswerman 1 year ago
@camdawg7 You can't kneel down in the celestial room and pour out your whole soul to God. Its just not appropriate there. But in the wilderness places you can. I have found that it is much more natural to my soul to pray out loud and talk to God. Then listen carefully, closely, until you have made a spiritual connection by the power of the Holy Ghost. If you have not experienced this is may take some "fine tuning" to block out all distractions, and listen. But when God speaks you will know
mormonanswerman 1 year ago
I figure I can conclude 1 of two things. Either there is no god or if there is a god I am just missing something that I should be seeing that others see. Every time I ask a bishop or family or friends, I just 2 weeks ago asked my sunday school class "I want you to go home and think about an answer to this, 'how can we know the feelings we get after we pray are from god?' and every time I get the same answer --
camdawg7 2 years ago
The answer I get is "Well I don't know but we know all good things come from god, therefor the good feelings you get are from god... but that is assuming you believe in a god." Or "you just need to have faith and wait patiently" To me it makes perfect sense to say those things because they give god an excuse when prayers are not answered. I have also thought "is this just god testing me?" There is no way for me to know except just wait. wait wait wait.
camdawg7 2 years ago
I tried to post 2 other comments before this and I guess they didn't get put in. Sorry if that comment seemed to come out of nowhere. Thanks mormonanswerman for trying to answer my questions sincerely unlike imtherealthing. He was a bit judgemental and ... fiery I guess is a nice way to put it. More like baptist preacher fiery than testimony meeting fiery lol.
camdawg7 2 years ago
@camdawg7
What an ABSOLUTELY STUPID thing to say we do not feel the Spirit by "feelings"..tell me..how does one experience the Holy Ghost?..well?
Tell me why "ALL" the references to feeling in your "HEART", listen with ones "EARS"?..show me where we ONLY experience the Holy Ghost with our mind?..well?
I'll tell you one thing..that "spirit" one feels in a "christian" church where rock music is being played is the same "spirit" I feel at a hockey game..big differance from the "Spirit"
imtherealthing 2 years ago
oh, looks like I forgot to read these comments as well. I never said we don't feel the spirit by feelings. I said quite the contrary. The only way we can come to know truth is by our senses which sometimes includes "feelings" as per the holy ghost. You now know that I'm an atheist and most of the comment you made here doesn't apply to my question at hand. Last of all we "ONLY" experience EVERYTHING with our mind. When you feel your heart you are feeling your heart with your mind.
camdawg7 2 years ago
@camdawg7
Acts 7:51-53
Ye STIFFNECKED and uncircumcised IN HEART and EARS, YE DO ALWAYS RESIST the HOLY GHOST: as your fathers did, SO DO YE.
Which of the PROPHETS have not your fathers PERSECUTED and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers:
Who have RECIEVED the law BY THE DISPOSTION OF ANGELS, and have NOT KEPT IT
imtherealthing 2 years ago
@camdawg7
Acts 7:54
When they heard these things, they were cut to the heart, and they gnashed on him with their teeth.
imtherealthing 2 years ago
@camdawg7
Luke 24: 32
And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?
imtherealthing 2 years ago
@camdawg7
How do YOU know that the eye witness accounts as found in the Bible about God from prophets and apostles are true and accurate EXPLAIN how you know this to be true. Can you quantify this with any proof?
That is the exact same question posed to the Latter-day Saints when anti-mormons deny that the modern prophets and apostles are not who they claim to be. I know the prophets and apostles of the Bible are what they claim by the Holy Ghost.
Is it "Logic" that tells you?
imtherealthing 2 years ago
I don't know that they are true. There isn't any way to know they are really speaking for god the same way that you can't know that a god exists. Saying you know they are true because of feelings isn't really an answer.
camdawg7 2 years ago
@camdawg7
Ah..you are an athiest?...good grief man...there is a GODHEAD that is real..go seek out the TRUTH..experiment upon the WORD of GOD...don't think that you have to throw out your intelligence to accept the Godhead...there are millions who are much more educated than you who still accept science and a belief in a Godhead.
Stop your whining and find out for yourself...get a Book of Mormon and read Alma chapter 32 - try the free on-line version at lds(dot)org - read it and ponder it
imtherealthing 2 years ago
I don't know that I'm an atheist, I just don't see any "proof" of a god. I can assure you I've read through the BoM over 10 times and have studied the BoM. I have experimented upon the word. And there are millions who are much more educated than me that accept science and don't accept a belief in a God. That is absolutely no reason to believe in a god. It doesn't take education to know if there is a God or not.
camdawg7 2 years ago
Excellent brother..very well done.
imtherealthing 2 years ago
Thanks imtherealthing.
mormonanswerman 2 years ago
Proverbs 28:26 "He who trusts in his own heart is a fool, but he who walks wisely will be delivered."
Proverbs 2:6 "For the Lord gives wisdom, from His mouth come knowledge and understanding."
superjoel25 2 years ago 2
Is PROVERBS all you've got to try and debunk this truth, this truth that is taught so clearly in other parts of the Bible, not the least of which is the NEW TESTAMENT where Jesus teaches so many truths, how to pray, Father in Heaven, the nature of the Godhead, etc.
You guys seem to always misunderstand that the feelings of the Holy Ghost are MORE than just the leanings of the heart. Not leanings at all. But power given. It is a force felt. A real experience.
mormonanswerman 2 years ago
What do you mean, "is PROVERBS all you've got" ? Is Proverbs not Scripture? Is Proverbs not as true as the rest of the Bible? So you want more? try Gen 6:5 Numbers 15:39 2Chron. 6:7-9 Prov. 19:21 Prov. 23:12,- "Apply your heart to discipline and your ears to words of knowledge."
Prov. 23:19,- "Listen my son and be wise and direct your heart in the way." He was told to direct his heart in wisdom, not to let his heart (or feelings) direct him.
Jer. 17:9 The heart is deceitful.
Matt. 15:19
superjoel25 2 years ago
Again, is that all you've got? Again, my heart does NOT tell me the truth. When I FEEL the Holy Ghost, there is a whole lot more than just the heart involved. There is the mind. There is the SOUL. There is the whole body feeling peace and knowledge.
There is also burning in the bosom, but again, that is only a part. So I understand all the talk of the heart and setting your heart on things and having false hopes, falling in love, etc. Heart can be deceitful, SURE, if God is not involved.
mormonanswerman 2 years ago
There is a man who is a Christian and he has some relatives that are Muslim, and he asked his uncle (who is Muslim) why he believed what he believed and his response was that when he read the Koran that he felt a burning in his bosom and a peace and that confirmed to him that it was true. So how is his wrong and yours right? How do you know that the feelings of your heart are not deceiving you? your beliefs should be based on the bible NOT your feelings.
Feelings can deceive you.
superjoel25 2 years ago
NO, feelings can LEAD you in the right direction. Who would say that there is not some TRUTH in the Quran? If you read truth in the QURAN, in the Bible, in the Book of Mormon, or in a science book, you are going to FEEL the Holy Ghost, because the Holy Ghost is God's witness that we are on track to truth.
What some people do, is they feel this, and they think they have arrived, but in all likelihood they are only PART way there.
For me, I have not found anything yet better!
mormonanswerman 2 years ago
ALWAYS keep an open mind, and ALWAYS be ready for change. We have to be this way because Jesus is coming again, and we have to KNOW who He is when we see Him, considering that there will be many false Christs saying that they are Him, but they are NOT Him.
Holy Ghost and this method of KNOWING truth is and will continue to be absolutely necessary!!
mormonanswerman 2 years ago
Feelings were never meant to test truth. Granted, feelings are God-given, and it's feelings and emotions that make life interesting. But, if the belief is not true, all the feelings and emotion in the universe cannot help you, me, or anyone else.
rodwyr 2 years ago 5
Feelings are the BEST. They are the method for determining truth. If the Holy Ghost is within you, telling you that something is TRUE, you will have the experience like those in the Bible had when they wrote:
Luke 24: 32 And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while [Jesus] talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?
There you go. Its biblical and it is true. Its happening today. Its real and the METHOD to know for sure of anything.
mormonanswerman 2 years ago
Yes you are right, feelings are good.
however, feelings can also be deceptive. The bible warns us about our feelings.
Jeremiah 17:9 - The heart is deceitful above all things and is exceedingly corrupt. Who can know it?
Proverbs 28:26 - He who trusts in his own heart is a fool.
With the logic you present, how do you justify a person joining Islam based on their feeling that it is right? Even the sincerest of feelings lead to alternative solutions other than Christ.
zmcleod 2 years ago 2
everytime I read about the progress of the temple being erected in Kiev, Ukraine, I FEEL and KNOW I am feeling something awesome and that the dedication of that temple is/will be one of the most profound events of our modern era.
nurser11 2 years ago 3
I have seen people come to Christ and know that they are a sinner and they come to tears. I have also seen a person bear witness that the gospel has been restored and the Book of Mormon is true. This person came to tears as well. I would guess that opponents of the church would validate the first and discredit the latter. I'm getting really tired of the double standard. I hear rants about how the BOM is untrue, and then hear how only Christ saves....Thats what the BOM is saying!!
sherin119 2 years ago 3
you are so right.
mormonanswerman 2 years ago
"Postmodernists believe that truth is myth, and myth, truth. This equation has its roots in pop psychology. The same people also believe that emotions are a form of reality. There used to be another name for this state of mind. It used to be called psychosis." - Brad Holland
What the heart and mind can perceive is subject to differ. While the heart lets us experience life through feelings, it is the mind that validates the experience. If the object of one's faith is false, so is one's faith.
RoninTXBR549 2 years ago 3
I fail to see the thesis statement for this video. You jabber on for a while about feelings and emotions through some convoluted claims, but nothing really solid or concrete. What are you driving at?
The fact of the matter is, subjective emotional manifestations are not reliable metrics for truth. How is the "Holy Ghost" anything more than a subjective emotional experience? I don't see what your point is, or how it could possibly help your case.
nageljr 2 years ago 3
"How is the "Holy Ghost" anything more than a subjective emotional experience? I don't see what your point is, or how it could possibly help your case."
subjective emotional experience...
Well, I could have predicted that you would say that, and it is because you have NOT experienced the Holy Ghost, because if you did, you would feel the same way I do and not saying this to me. So, find it out man. Take the time and find it out. Don't think that your experience is "it."
mormonanswerman 2 years ago
Simply claiming that "I'll know it when I feel it" is not an answer. It also does nothing to alleviate the fact that it still boils down to attributing intense emotional experiences to "God."
Look, I've been to Church, I read the BoM, and I studied both plenty. At the end of the day, all you have to go on is a subjective experience that, for lack of any other explanations, you attribute to "God." I have yet to see anyone give me something more compelling beyond this. Please reconcile.
nageljr 2 years ago 6
Along the pizza analogy, maybe you DID taste the pizza, but maybe it was the Little Caesars pizza variety, and not the Pasquale's pizza. There's got to be a range to things.
I mean, if Joseph Smith saw the two beings God the Father and Jesus Christ the Son, side by side, I can't say I have tasted THAT variety of the pizza (its quite the step up from even the Pasquales), but from what I have tasted, the Holy Ghost invisible variety, it works very well. I could never go back to Little Caesars.
mormonanswerman 2 years ago
"Look, I've been to Church, I read the BoM, and I studied both plenty. At the end of the day, all you have to go on is a subjective experience that, for lack of any other explanations, you attribute to "God.""
Again, there is a range. If I can accept that God the Father and Jesus Christ don't personally visit me like the visited Joseph Smith, but they are going to communicate with the masses thru the Holy Ghost, maybe you can accept that there are ranges to these experiences. Not all the same.
mormonanswerman 2 years ago
I can tell you with confidence that I have experienced more than some subjective emotional experience. Its like if I tasted combo pizza and all you ever had was wheat bread, you could say all day long that my enthusiasm for the pizza is just some subjective irrelevant and emotional experience. But until you actually TASTE it too, you could never know how great it was, and why there is so much to be enthusiastic about.
mormonanswerman 2 years ago
Ever see Ratatouille?
Great movie, great story, and yes, I am one of those like that rat Remy who knows how great the food tastes, and all the other rats just say, "yeah, whatever, its just fuel."
But when the Holy Ghost witnesses truth to you in a most sublime, amazing, spiritual way where your soul just got spoken to, well, there is nothing else like this experience, and yes, it is good enough to last a lifetime hanging on to what you now know is true.
mormonanswerman 2 years ago
Do you know see how entirely un-compelling this is?
1) Other religions offer the exact same thing.
2) Oxygen deprivation offers the exact same thing.
3) NDE's offer the exact same thing.
It doesn't matter how intense, tasty, or magical "The Spirit" is, because it is entirely reproducible. It therefore cannot be used as "evidence" for any external truth. I have felt more spiritual from watching "The Patriot" than from going to Conference. Is Mel Gibson therefore a prophet?
nageljr 2 years ago 6
"I have felt more spiritual from watching "The Patriot" than from going to Conference. Is Mel Gibson therefore a prophet? "
No, it just means that you need to be operated on externally by production values, the same things that are "working" for other churches who hire the big choir, the professional musicians, and the eloquent orators who can pace around as they speak. Charisma driven "spirituality" where talent matters.
But the Holy Ghost is much more important than that.
mormonanswerman 2 years ago
So if your experience is from "The Holy Ghost," then what do you call it when an Evangelical parrots your exact same language in describing his/her testimony? They can't both be the Holy Ghost, because you both hold to mutually inconsistent beliefs.
nageljr 2 years ago 5
"So if your experience is from "The Holy Ghost," then what do you call it when an Evangelical parrots your exact same language in describing his/her testimony? They can't both be the Holy Ghost, because you both hold to mutually inconsistent beliefs."
Absolutely right!
I can't tell you who to believe, but I can say that there are those who say they believe and experience something, but they don't.
Like you said, one of us would be lieing? God is not the author of confusion!
Priestcraft.
mormonanswerman 2 years ago
"what do you call it when an Evangelical parrots your exact same language in describing his/her testimony?"
You know, I have heard this hypothesis a lot, but personally, I have NEVER seen it or heard it. I have never heard an evangelical describe their experience as the same as mine, and therefore a quandry. It just doesn't happen.
Can you point me in the right direction, to an evangelical who says/said they experienced the same thing that I am describing, for instance? I'd like to watch.
mormonanswerman 2 years ago
I'm a convert to the LDS church of about 25+ years but I do recall the spirit prompting me towards the teachings of Christ when I was a youth. The settings, of course were a bit different but the spirit WAS there. It just didn't stay there as it does now. You can go to a revival or retreat and feel the spirit but it soon fades afterwards. That is why I kept going back. I wanted it all the time. So, to say "It just doesn't happen" might be a bit of a stretch.
JackNimble61 2 years ago 3
What I meant by "it just doesn't happen" is that I have never heard an evangelical say "I know this church is true, and I have prayed about the Book of Mormon and know from the power of the Holy Ghost that this book is true. I felt it, I heard it, I perceived it, by the power of the Holy Ghost."
I have never seen any from the christian world embrace or espouse these testimonies. I am sure that they feel the Spirit from time to time, because as a missionary I saw that when teaching people. :)
mormonanswerman 2 years ago
Thanks for clarifying that. I wasn't sure whether I was the only person that might perceive it that way or not.
JackNimble61 2 years ago
"The Spirit is...entirely reproducible."
Now this just does not make any sense to me at all, to say that one can reproduce the Holy Ghost. You mistake, because even though I have been given the gift of the Holy Ghost, I can't just turn that faucet on when I will it. I can't. It just happens, and when it happens, it usually happens when you don't expect it. Movies are predictable. The Holy Ghost is not.
mormonanswerman 2 years ago
Bad advice:
Trust in your brain, and only your brain. Don't trust your eyes. Don't trust in your feelings.
Good advice:
Trust in your brain, AND your eyes, AND your feelings, etc. Put it all together and make the most intelligent decision. Don't get faked out by an emotion, for sure, but please trust in what may be a REACTION to something that God did within us, namely, the Holy Ghost.
Also, remember that "Jesus wept." There is no shame in it.
mormonanswerman 2 years ago
Domo Arigato, Mr. Roboto.
Bardlettt 2 years ago