Also I'm pretty sure there are PLENTY of christian "scholars" around today (2000 years after the fact), especially in the "Evangelical" circles, evidently all of their books should be thrown into the garbage bin as well since they have no first hand knowledge (this would include everything Paul wrote since he never met Jesus, all the popes, and every other religious figures in the past 2000 years). I'm sure this guy has even written a few books himself.
So I guess this guy just likes to gloss over the fact that Jesus openly admitted that his message wasn't meant for everyone (aka they contained secret knowledge) and that's why he spoke in parables. Matthew 13:10 for reference. Also I guess all of the parables that overlap from the Gospel of Thomas and those in the canon should be taken out as "unreliable" as well? What a joke.
Maybe sola fide is like "everyone gets financed at Dick's used cars!" and maybe you do need to evolve your consciousness and do good works and live with love paramount to progress to the kingdom of heaven. Seriously, it makes more logical sense than murderers being welcomed because they repented at the last minute and Indian babies who starved to death going to hell because they never met a missionary. Much of the text of the bible seems designed to build the Catholic church. Just saying.
"Radical left wing scholars..." LOL He slams their historic assertions based on their current political persuasions. OMG I'll disregard it because they are RADICALS!
They say it was written to late? People thought the world was flat...then it was written much later that is was round. Get over the "written to late" flimsy argument. Also Some of the Gospels in The Gnostic texts very well could be the earliest writings. These men of dead letters in the video are so biased and narrow minded.
It is also funny that they dismiss the Gnostic Gospels. They were circulating around the same time when what we know as "the Bible" was put into cannon. They were just called heretical because they chose the ones that fit the churches agenda. The church likes to enslave people. Remember Lord means you have slaves. A disciple is enslaved. Jesus had laborers.
What's wrong with the Gospel of Thomas! Gospel of Thomas concentrated on the Lord's teachings alone. I think before they dismiss it, understand it, or maybe they can't understand it because they are afraid they might get lost. No! absolutely, the Gospel of Thomas from the first saying to the last are legitimate teachings of the Lord and are in unison with four gospels of the bible. The view that the Gospel of Thomas is giving to it's reader is the view of our true selves. A Sleeping Spirit.
@YeahAlexFear Sir, everybody will tell you that the Gosphel of Thomas was brought about by the Gnostic church somewheres around 200 A.D. ! where do you get the Gosphel of Thomas being older than the others ! Also Thomas would be dead by the time it was written unless he lived to over 200 yrs. old ! No disrespect at all, but i was tring to see what your point was fpor i don't get it !
All praise to Yeshua and Sophia (Holy Spirit). Forgive the ones who wiped your children out of existance. The Gnostic Christians allowed women to lead because ALL lead, there was no Clergy, so where are the female leaders in the church (except a few denominations)? Thomas predates the other gospels and some of the letters of Paul, who WAS a Gnostic Christian. One cannot put all Gnostics into the same pool of beliefs and anyone who says "ALL Gnostics believed...." is a liar.
@johnankerberg He says the Gnostic Gospels are corrupted, because of the timelapse it took to take for oral history to be written down. On the same note, when he defends the bible(talking about that timelapse from when Jesus died, until the NT was written) he says this timelapse further proves the bible. I kind of confused myself just now, but I'm saying is he is using a double standard.
@Millipedecult You do realize that the New Testament is only a compile right? All the texts in the New Testament were texts written in Hebrew dated to be written before Jesus's resurrection and after by the Apostles. It's been past down in the original countries, bro. All the Gnostic Gospels were written centuries after the resurrection, and centuries after the Apostles died, also they are all written in a different language.
@jshjamaar Yes a compilation of letters and random things people wrote about Jesus. so many things have been corrupted through the translation, and so many things left out, due to the romans decision to "Deitize" Jesus. However we have a dozen of other books within that time that depict Jesus as a normal dude. Paul took the greek hellinzed doctrine, as well as deitizing normal people(something the greeks liked to do) and distorted the real teachings of Yeshua. Btw, they did the with holidays.
@jshjamaar Everything is corrupted in the bible, because the doctrine Jesus presented was perverted by the greeks and the jews. There never was any reason to sacrifice animals for sins, that was greek and jewish superstition, perpetuated by the evil god/alien of the OT. Also greeks had fun making real living people deities, having rituals for solstices(so called christian holidays now), and they liked portraying god as an ultimate judge of deeds, and as well as punisher.
@Millipedecult Chirst died around 33 Ad. The NT books were soon falling into place. 1 Cor for example is around 51 Ad. From just three of the apostolic fathers whom quoted the NT they can reproduce 25 out 27 NT book and this is between 97 Ad to just over 100 AD.
over 5800 Koine Greek manuscripts or portions of manuscripts from the fist century alone. Add to that the Syriac Latin and Coptic for 24,000 manuscripts
There are no other ancient writings COMBINED that can even come close to this.
@Noffy1111 And all of this was caused by a political decision to propagate christianity. If christianity was so supported at the time, why is there offical records of the apostles being executed? To cover something up? Like the real teachings of Jesus.
@Noffy1111 That really does not matter, the fact of the matter is that the religion was propagated years after Jesus died. There are no personal records of Jesus' miracles, no personal records of his ressurection. Some letters that were circulated by political officials made christianity popular, not word of mouth. The manuscripts are nothing more then published propaganda. OT God is evil, and Jesus is supposed to be God incarnate? Start exorcising free thought for a change.
Just what do you think the bible is? It is that eye record of the miracles done in front of tens of thousands of eye witnesses as recorded by the apostles whom were EYE WITNESSES.
From Just three of the apostolic fathers (students of the apostles) writings, 25 out of 27 books of the NT could be reproduced. This simply means they were quoting from sources of the 1st century (NT)
The Jews recorded Jesus and His Miracles and then attributed them to the devil.
@Millipedecult >They are corrupted because they are written by persons who lived a long time after Jesus lived, people with no personal knowledge of him and his teachings, people who were not recognised as trustworthy witnesses by the christians at the time. They didn't even present their writings as their own, but used credibillity borrowed from the (real) apostles. These writings were not recognised as authentic by any church at the time, and were not in use within the christian communities.
After watching this clip I am reminded of some things that I have learned about the Gnostic Writings. I agree with him that the dates are so far off that they are unreliable Gospels compared to the more accepted Gospels that are in the Protestant Bibles. Another reason they are not as accepted is because they are written differently than the original Gospels. Those are some of the reasons that I believe the Gnostic Gospels are not reliable or true.
also strobel talks about how the gnostics didnt care about the resurrection (they gnostic gosples are heavily bathed in the mystery of the resurrection) and that they didnt believe the divine secret should be revealed to anyone. it seems he has not read matthew 13:10-17 and matthew 7:6. these men are misleading and their character should be questioned!
Funny how no one really understands what the purpose of the Council of Nicaea was. In 325 an ecumenical council was called at the city of Nicaea to combat the Arian heresy, which preached that Jesus was not co-eternal to the Father by a bishop named Arius. It was to solidly affirm Christ's divinity. The Council of Nicaea had NOTHING to do with compiling the New Testament. These were decided at the two Council of Carthage in 397.
Im glad alot of the comments here are from people with an educated viewpoint and not corrupted biased opinons. Whatever you do look at the facts and find the original articles, insted of basing your opinions on somebody elses. Thats what we call seccond hand information. I thought our culture used to be a see it to believe it society. So please dont take my opinion, find out for yourself and seek the truth.
yeh one way is confess and your in... the other way is you must labor your thoughts, feelings and activities to get it. In fact, the second way is a art and a science of regular and holy actions.
the second way requires no donations for forgiveness and is hard inner work and comprehension of spiritual energies. the second way is difficult and narrow. Viva La Second Way!
Priceless! If you want know just what kind of hell these lovely people create for themselves, just read the Gnostic Gospels. Truly, "God" is all things and these folks are part of it, but it is true in ways that these folks are not capable of understanding. These desperate people need our help and compassion as they are the dark reaches of mind that has no apparent light. Pray that they might awaken as if your own consciousness actually depended upon it, because it does.
Just because the "other" gospels were supposedly written in the 2nd century does not mean there were not copies which existed prior to that time. All of the other apostles and their own followers had every right to write down the gospel and things that Jesus told them. I agree with thatjimguy in what he said. But until Jesus returns i am not sure that we will ever know SPECIFICALLY which books were real/fake. Just like any searcher you have to study, and pray, and determine truth.
honestly some gnostic books are good to read for knowledge and understanding but some are just fake books and shouldnt be read just for your sake of not wasting time
Funny how they talk of "other gospels" as if they have no legitimacy. The only reason the gospels that are in the bible now are considered canon is because of emperor Constantine of the Roman Empire's political ambitions, not spiritual ambitions. The Council of Nicea cut and pasted what it wanted.
@thatjimguy I totally agree with you. We've been programmed for a long time to accept what orders accept. It's time to be different. A long time ago i began to read the gnostic gospels even without understanding some parts but they filled me more than the new testament, in some point.
Also I'm pretty sure there are PLENTY of christian "scholars" around today (2000 years after the fact), especially in the "Evangelical" circles, evidently all of their books should be thrown into the garbage bin as well since they have no first hand knowledge (this would include everything Paul wrote since he never met Jesus, all the popes, and every other religious figures in the past 2000 years). I'm sure this guy has even written a few books himself.
silverak4 2 weeks ago
So I guess this guy just likes to gloss over the fact that Jesus openly admitted that his message wasn't meant for everyone (aka they contained secret knowledge) and that's why he spoke in parables. Matthew 13:10 for reference. Also I guess all of the parables that overlap from the Gospel of Thomas and those in the canon should be taken out as "unreliable" as well? What a joke.
silverak4 2 weeks ago
Maybe sola fide is like "everyone gets financed at Dick's used cars!" and maybe you do need to evolve your consciousness and do good works and live with love paramount to progress to the kingdom of heaven. Seriously, it makes more logical sense than murderers being welcomed because they repented at the last minute and Indian babies who starved to death going to hell because they never met a missionary. Much of the text of the bible seems designed to build the Catholic church. Just saying.
Gnosis2078 3 weeks ago
"Radical left wing scholars..." LOL He slams their historic assertions based on their current political persuasions. OMG I'll disregard it because they are RADICALS!
Gnosis2078 3 weeks ago
They say it was written to late? People thought the world was flat...then it was written much later that is was round. Get over the "written to late" flimsy argument. Also Some of the Gospels in The Gnostic texts very well could be the earliest writings. These men of dead letters in the video are so biased and narrow minded.
chaksheba 1 month ago
It is also funny that they dismiss the Gnostic Gospels. They were circulating around the same time when what we know as "the Bible" was put into cannon. They were just called heretical because they chose the ones that fit the churches agenda. The church likes to enslave people. Remember Lord means you have slaves. A disciple is enslaved. Jesus had laborers.
chaksheba 1 month ago
Gospel comes from your heart and the grace of god. These people in this video are men of dead letters.
chaksheba 1 month ago
What's wrong with the Gospel of Thomas! Gospel of Thomas concentrated on the Lord's teachings alone. I think before they dismiss it, understand it, or maybe they can't understand it because they are afraid they might get lost. No! absolutely, the Gospel of Thomas from the first saying to the last are legitimate teachings of the Lord and are in unison with four gospels of the bible. The view that the Gospel of Thomas is giving to it's reader is the view of our true selves. A Sleeping Spirit.
TheGnosticMonk 2 months ago 4
Its true that Constintine the great excluded many text when he 'modernized' the bible. He killed many people who tried to promote the gospels
jwdesign336 6 months ago
Gnostic gospel says Jesus was not the Savour of the world. it paint Mary as the so called savour of the world !
you get salvation by looking at yourself and Jesus will not play a part in it.
turtle4aire 10 months ago
The mans an ignorant idiot the gospel of thomas is older than any of the gospels in the bible
YeahAlexFear 11 months ago
@YeahAlexFear Sir, everybody will tell you that the Gosphel of Thomas was brought about by the Gnostic church somewheres around 200 A.D. ! where do you get the Gosphel of Thomas being older than the others ! Also Thomas would be dead by the time it was written unless he lived to over 200 yrs. old ! No disrespect at all, but i was tring to see what your point was fpor i don't get it !
turtle4aire 10 months ago
Sorry fundies- too many people are asking too many questions too often, and your iron grip on Christianity is quickly slipping.
May all souls be liberated eternally from the foul influence of the Demiurge.
brainjuice00 1 year ago
@brainjuice00 yea, well. there's probably a good reason why the good God has left all these souls come under the influence of this nasty Demiurge!
CT2507 1 year ago
All praise to Yeshua and Sophia (Holy Spirit). Forgive the ones who wiped your children out of existance. The Gnostic Christians allowed women to lead because ALL lead, there was no Clergy, so where are the female leaders in the church (except a few denominations)? Thomas predates the other gospels and some of the letters of Paul, who WAS a Gnostic Christian. One cannot put all Gnostics into the same pool of beliefs and anyone who says "ALL Gnostics believed...." is a liar.
astrofrk 1 year ago 4
The christianity of today is just the child of one of many christian cults from back then.
And by the logic they uses the oldest religions should have been more right as they where closer to the time when God lived among humans.
T3lli 1 year ago
This guy uses the same reasoning the fight against the gnostic gospels, the saem reasoning he uses to protect the Bible.
Millipedecult 1 year ago 2
@Millipedecult What do you mean?
johnankerberg 1 year ago
@johnankerberg He says the Gnostic Gospels are corrupted, because of the timelapse it took to take for oral history to be written down. On the same note, when he defends the bible(talking about that timelapse from when Jesus died, until the NT was written) he says this timelapse further proves the bible. I kind of confused myself just now, but I'm saying is he is using a double standard.
Millipedecult 1 year ago 8
@Millipedecult You do realize that the New Testament is only a compile right? All the texts in the New Testament were texts written in Hebrew dated to be written before Jesus's resurrection and after by the Apostles. It's been past down in the original countries, bro. All the Gnostic Gospels were written centuries after the resurrection, and centuries after the Apostles died, also they are all written in a different language.
jshjamaar 1 year ago
@jshjamaar Yes a compilation of letters and random things people wrote about Jesus. so many things have been corrupted through the translation, and so many things left out, due to the romans decision to "Deitize" Jesus. However we have a dozen of other books within that time that depict Jesus as a normal dude. Paul took the greek hellinzed doctrine, as well as deitizing normal people(something the greeks liked to do) and distorted the real teachings of Yeshua. Btw, they did the with holidays.
Millipedecult 1 year ago
@jshjamaar Everything is corrupted in the bible, because the doctrine Jesus presented was perverted by the greeks and the jews. There never was any reason to sacrifice animals for sins, that was greek and jewish superstition, perpetuated by the evil god/alien of the OT. Also greeks had fun making real living people deities, having rituals for solstices(so called christian holidays now), and they liked portraying god as an ultimate judge of deeds, and as well as punisher.
Millipedecult 1 year ago
@Millipedecult One more thing, mostly ALL the Gnostic Gospels are anonymous.
jshjamaar 1 year ago
@Millipedecult Chirst died around 33 Ad. The NT books were soon falling into place. 1 Cor for example is around 51 Ad. From just three of the apostolic fathers whom quoted the NT they can reproduce 25 out 27 NT book and this is between 97 Ad to just over 100 AD.
over 5800 Koine Greek manuscripts or portions of manuscripts from the fist century alone. Add to that the Syriac Latin and Coptic for 24,000 manuscripts
There are no other ancient writings COMBINED that can even come close to this.
Noffy1111 1 year ago
@Noffy1111 And all of this was caused by a political decision to propagate christianity. If christianity was so supported at the time, why is there offical records of the apostles being executed? To cover something up? Like the real teachings of Jesus.
Millipedecult 1 year ago
@Millipedecult
They have over 24,000 manuscripts in Koine Greek, Syriac, Coptic and Latin. 5800 plus are of the ORIGINAL language of Koine Greek.
You seriously need to educate yourself with the truth and not the fable.
Noffy1111 1 year ago
@Noffy1111 That really does not matter, the fact of the matter is that the religion was propagated years after Jesus died. There are no personal records of Jesus' miracles, no personal records of his ressurection. Some letters that were circulated by political officials made christianity popular, not word of mouth. The manuscripts are nothing more then published propaganda. OT God is evil, and Jesus is supposed to be God incarnate? Start exorcising free thought for a change.
Millipedecult 1 year ago
@Millipedecult
Just what do you think the bible is? It is that eye record of the miracles done in front of tens of thousands of eye witnesses as recorded by the apostles whom were EYE WITNESSES.
From Just three of the apostolic fathers (students of the apostles) writings, 25 out of 27 books of the NT could be reproduced. This simply means they were quoting from sources of the 1st century (NT)
The Jews recorded Jesus and His Miracles and then attributed them to the devil.
Noffy1111 1 year ago
@Millipedecult >They are corrupted because they are written by persons who lived a long time after Jesus lived, people with no personal knowledge of him and his teachings, people who were not recognised as trustworthy witnesses by the christians at the time. They didn't even present their writings as their own, but used credibillity borrowed from the (real) apostles. These writings were not recognised as authentic by any church at the time, and were not in use within the christian communities.
BKaz 1 year ago
ACTUALLY IT SAY THE FEMALE MUST BECOME MALE & THE MALE MUST BECOME FEMALE,THEY MUST BECOME1.
factsism11 1 year ago
After watching this clip I am reminded of some things that I have learned about the Gnostic Writings. I agree with him that the dates are so far off that they are unreliable Gospels compared to the more accepted Gospels that are in the Protestant Bibles. Another reason they are not as accepted is because they are written differently than the original Gospels. Those are some of the reasons that I believe the Gnostic Gospels are not reliable or true.
bltallest1 1 year ago
also strobel talks about how the gnostics didnt care about the resurrection (they gnostic gosples are heavily bathed in the mystery of the resurrection) and that they didnt believe the divine secret should be revealed to anyone. it seems he has not read matthew 13:10-17 and matthew 7:6. these men are misleading and their character should be questioned!
boundleadtheblind 1 year ago
i havent read through all of the comments. so i dont know if anyone has commented on how manufactured this conversation is.
is it just me or does anyone else see the script they rehearsed? it just seems very fake.
boundleadtheblind 1 year ago
Funny how no one really understands what the purpose of the Council of Nicaea was. In 325 an ecumenical council was called at the city of Nicaea to combat the Arian heresy, which preached that Jesus was not co-eternal to the Father by a bishop named Arius. It was to solidly affirm Christ's divinity. The Council of Nicaea had NOTHING to do with compiling the New Testament. These were decided at the two Council of Carthage in 397.
Pilatocus28 1 year ago
Im glad alot of the comments here are from people with an educated viewpoint and not corrupted biased opinons. Whatever you do look at the facts and find the original articles, insted of basing your opinions on somebody elses. Thats what we call seccond hand information. I thought our culture used to be a see it to believe it society. So please dont take my opinion, find out for yourself and seek the truth.
daislor8675 1 year ago
yeh one way is confess and your in... the other way is you must labor your thoughts, feelings and activities to get it. In fact, the second way is a art and a science of regular and holy actions.
the second way requires no donations for forgiveness and is hard inner work and comprehension of spiritual energies. the second way is difficult and narrow. Viva La Second Way!
888Kharami 1 year ago
Priceless! If you want know just what kind of hell these lovely people create for themselves, just read the Gnostic Gospels. Truly, "God" is all things and these folks are part of it, but it is true in ways that these folks are not capable of understanding. These desperate people need our help and compassion as they are the dark reaches of mind that has no apparent light. Pray that they might awaken as if your own consciousness actually depended upon it, because it does.
watersedge08 1 year ago
@coldxradio how do you know? have you ever read it?
zhuriyuk2 2 years ago
Just because the "other" gospels were supposedly written in the 2nd century does not mean there were not copies which existed prior to that time. All of the other apostles and their own followers had every right to write down the gospel and things that Jesus told them. I agree with thatjimguy in what he said. But until Jesus returns i am not sure that we will ever know SPECIFICALLY which books were real/fake. Just like any searcher you have to study, and pray, and determine truth.
zhuriyuk2 2 years ago
honestly some gnostic books are good to read for knowledge and understanding but some are just fake books and shouldnt be read just for your sake of not wasting time
RealEros1 2 years ago
Funny how they talk of "other gospels" as if they have no legitimacy. The only reason the gospels that are in the bible now are considered canon is because of emperor Constantine of the Roman Empire's political ambitions, not spiritual ambitions. The Council of Nicea cut and pasted what it wanted.
thatjimguy 2 years ago 19
@thatjimguy I totally agree with you. We've been programmed for a long time to accept what orders accept. It's time to be different. A long time ago i began to read the gnostic gospels even without understanding some parts but they filled me more than the new testament, in some point.
josealbertoalmanzar 1 year ago
@thatjimguy I agree 100%
latinlover973 5 days ago